View Full Version : My First Time in Vegas! 5/29-6/1 Trip Report

06-08-2007, 08:50 PM
I haven't seen many trip reports on this board, but I thought I'd do one anyway--it'll tide me over til it's time to write another Disney one! :cool1:

06-08-2007, 08:53 PM
Vegas Trip 5/29-6/1


Me—24, an East Coaster, who hasn’t been very far west (only one trip to Colorado), living in Midwest with GF, not much of a gambler, likes to drink but has a stomach acid problem so haven't had more than one or two drinks in the last 6 months :sad1:, likes to eat and has a big sweet tooth

Girlfriend (i.e. GF)—30, a California native, been to Vegas twice before, living in Midwest with Me, likes to gamble and drink, likes to eat, has an untreated foot problem which causes a lot of foot pain while walking

Girlfriend’s Parents (i.e. GFP)—age unknown, living in California, we usually only see them about once a year, I really don't know that much about them

Pre-Trip Details:

Fall 2006—GF and I were trying to decide what to do about visiting our families for the holidays. We were going to drive to my parents’ house for Christmas, and considered going to her parents’ for Thanksgiving. But flights to CA were up near $300 and it just seemed crazy to spend $600 for just a few days over Thanksgiving. So we decided we’d visit another time when flights might be cheaper.

Winter 2007—Flights don’t seem to be much different in price than they were for Thanksgiving. While playing around on Expedia, we notice some pretty reasonable prices for flight + hotel for Vegas. We figure, we could spend just a little bit more money and go to Vegas instead of going to GFP's house. And since they live in a rural area w/out much around, we figure Vegas is sure to be more entertaining. GF remembered that GFP had been hoping to go to Vegas sometime soon, so she thought this would be a great plan. Her parents agreed and we decided to do it after the winter semester for GF and I ended.

Spring 2007—Trying to plan the trip. We decided on May or June, but figured we’d pick the exact dates based on hotel prices. We definitely wanted to stay right on the strip, but GF and I wanted the cheapest hotel possible. At this point we were also looking for flights and weren’t finding any as cheap as what we had seen in the winter, so we were getting a little nervous about the expanding price tag.

We found that hotel rates took a dip the week of Memorial Day, so that was the week we chose. We were considering Luxor at a rate of about $80 a night when GF found Tropicana for $55 a night. We went with Tropicana just because it was cheaper, though we knew it was one of the older hotels. GFP decided that they’d pay an extra $30 a night and get a “Paradise Tower Room,” but we were looking for cheap so we went for the “Garden Room.” A little less than 2 months before we were planning to go GFM called and told us that the room rates had jumped $10 a night for that week, so we’d better book now. So GF and I got a rate of $65/night. (Of course, the day before our trip I just happened to go on the Tropicana website and saw that the rate was down to $45/night :mad:.) GF also managed to find some reasonable flights for just a little over $200 each on Spirit Airlines. We had a 3:30pm departure from Detroit on the way there and an 11:15 pm departure from Vegas on the way back and each flight was 3 ½-4 hours . We thought nothing of choosing the overnight flight because it was cheaper than the others and gave us more vacation time, but we came to regret it.

06-08-2007, 09:18 PM
Day 1—Tuesday, May 29

After doing some stuff around the house and last minute packing GF and I left for the airport a bit before 1pm. I had planned on picking up some sandwiches on the way so we’d have some inexpensive lunch while waiting for the flight, but we decided to just wait and buy something at the airport. That was not the best idea. We usually fly NWA and leave from the huge main terminal which has all kinds of food options in it. But this time we left from a much smaller terminal. We passed by a Starbucks and Deli on the way to security and hoped there’d be something better near our gate. There was a Chilis Too which was just ready made sandwiches and salads. And then there was a sit down restaurant called something like BB King’s Lounge. We chose the sit down restaurant. It had few options and was overly expensive. I had quesadilla without the chicken and GF had chicken strips. The food was okay, but with tip the bill came to $27—pretty pricy for an airport lunch.

The seating area by our gate was only half full when we got there, but there were a couple of children running about and screeching. This type of thing really bothers GF; she says there are two kinds of children, the screechers and the rest of them. I have no doubt that fate will give her a screecher :rolleyes1 . Our flight was okay. GF was sweet and let me have the window. Still I hate flights. I’m a very ancy person to begin with and I just can’t stand having to sit in a small space for so long. Luckily it turned out that the 3rd person in our row who had the aisle seat ended up moving to the back of the plane part way through the flight. So GF and I got to stretch out a bit—things were much better when we had a bit more room!


Towards the end of the flight I started seeing a lot of plateaus, some mountains and a lot of red rock canyons outside the window. GF looked over as we were passing one canyon and said, “Hey that must be the Grand Canyon.” It didn’t look as large as I thought the Grand Canyon would look, but what do I know? I shrugged and said, “Yeah, I guess so.” Not 10 minutes later the pilot came on the intercom and announced that we were about 40 minutes from Vegas and that if we looked out the windows we’d see the Grand Canyon. The real Grand Canyon was at least ten times as large as GF’s Canyon! :lmao:

We took a shuttle to the Tropicana from the airport and got there pretty quickly given the airport is like right next to the strip.


It was after 4pm when we checked in—definitely past check in time—but they said in order to get the room with a King bed we wanted we’d have to wait for housekeeping to clean one. We decided to just go with the double beds. Also, they pointed out that we’d said “no preference” when asked about smoking on the reservation and asked if that was right. (At that time GF was a smoker, but she usually doesn’t smoke inside. Though there have been a few times at hotels when it took so long to get to an exit that she did smoke in a smoking room. But GF’s parents didn’t know she smoked and she wanted to keep it hidden, so it was unclear what room to pick. Anyway she quit a bit over a month ago so it didn’t matter anyway.) I replied, “Oh, well I guess we’ll take non-smoking if you have it.” The check in person nodded, which I took to mean, “Sure, I’ll give you non-smoking.” She gave us some coupons and map to our room.

We had to walk all the way through the casino floor to get to the wing where our room was supposed to be—the 5000 wing. We started seeing rooms in the 5000s and walked down that hallway, but never found our room number. Then we got to what seemed like the end of the hallway with two exits outside and an elevator. So we went all the way back down the way we came and checked upstairs (where the rooms were still 5000s), but our room wasn’t there either. Turns out the hallway kept on going in a strange winding way and eventually we figured that out and found our room.

The room looked just like we thought it would—very pastel, very tropical, very 80s Golden Girls. We thought it would look great in the pictures (unfortunately we didn’t get any *shakes head*—you’ll find out why soon enough—but here’s one from the Tropicana’s website)


Shortly after we found we called GF’s parents and they came down from their tower room. We chit chatted for awhile and then got down to business—where to eat for dinner! Earlier in the day we’d called them and talked about dinner options. I had done some research about restaurants in Vegas—especially buffets; the food is always one of the most exciting parts of vacation for GF and I! :) I had read that the really good buffets seemed to include Le Village at Paris, Spice Market at Planet Hollywood, Bayside Buffet at Mandalay Bay, The Buffet at the Bellagio, the buffet at the Wynn, and Cravings at the Mirage. All of these were mostly in the $23-28 a person range with Wynn upwards of $30 a person. (I did find some much more reasonably priced buffets off the strip and downtown which were also supposed to be good, but we’d hoped to stay on the strip for our first night.) We’d told GFP about these places and they checked the prices and found them kind of steep. They told us they’d prefer to go elsewhere a) because those places were all quite a walk away on the strip and they were tired from traveling, and b) because they were planning to treat GF and I to dinner so they wanted to go somewhere less expensive. They suggested the buffet at the Tropicana. GF and I didn’t have good feelings about this, but since they were offering to pay what could we say but, “Sure, sounds great!”

We headed down to the buffet and had to wait about 10 to 15 minutes to be seated. As I walked around I realized the buffet was going to be even worse than I thought given the lack of non-meat options (I’m a vegetarian). I ended up hitting the “make your own pasta” counter where you put various vegetables in a bowl and then give them to a chef. You pick a sauce and a pasta and s/he cooks it all for you right there. (I’ve seen similar things done very well with “make your own stir fry” at more upscale buffets.) The veggie selection was just your normal veggies and the sauces were alfredo, marinara, and meat and then a few different shapes of pasta.

I chose penne pasta, a bit of marinara sauce (thought about the alfredo, but looking at the vat of thick white sauce in front of me, I just didn’t know if I could stomach it), and olives, broccoli, and tomatoes for my veggies. There was nothing wrong with the pasta—but GF and I could have made the exact same thing at home and done it a little better (we’d have done garlic and oil instead of marinara). This was by far the bulk of my meal. Other than that, the vegetarian options were: mashed potatoes, seasoned potatoes, possibly “bread pudding” (which I think was stuffing) but I couldn’t tell if there was chicken in it or not and it didn’t look very appetizing anyway, a mediocre salad bar, potato and macaroni salad (which also didn’t look all that inviting), and some hot vegetables. I ended up eating just the pasta, both kinds of potatoes, vegetables, a mediocre salad, and a roll. Nothing was bad, but nothing was good either, and I was pretty disappointed.

GF was similarly unhappy, although at least she had more options given she eats meat. Apparently most of the meat wasn’t very good either, though. She said the prime rib was the only thing that “kept her from heaving” and joked that this buffet reminded her of the one on National Lampoon’s Vegas Vacation. Her parents weren’t impressed either and they made a few comments about not having a lot of options and the food not being great.

GF and my final view: Yuck. This reminds me of something I heard about remodeling once (on tv or a movie maybe?). These people were getting an estimate and the contractor drew them a triangle and told them here are the three aspects of a remodeling job—cost, length of time, and quality. He then went on to say that you can have any of the 2 of the 3 sides of the triangle together, but you can’t have all 3. It can be cheap and fast, but then it won’t be done well. It can be fast and done well, but then it won’t be cheap. It can be cheap and done well, but then it won’t be fast. Well that’s how I feel about our situation regarding a buffet that night. We got one that was cheap and fast (in terms of how easy it was to get there) but not good. We could have had one that was fast and good (at one of the casinos right next door), but that wouldn’t have been cheap. Or we could have had one that good and cheap, but that wouldn’t have been fast since those hotels were all off the strip or downtown. I’d have much preferred to give up fastness or cheapness to guarantee goodness.

After dinner we went to check out the pool, which unfortunately closed at 7pm. Why would a pool in Vegas close at 7pm? It was like 100 each day and still well into the 80s into the night (though I think we were there during a bit of a heat wave according to the news), so there definitely would have been people wanting to swim at that time. We eventually concluded they probably closed early for the same reason they do just about everything—so that you’ll be more likely to be in the casino gambling during that time. We found pretty much everything about Vegas was designed to get more money from you. We realized we appreciated Disney (especially w/ the DDP) for asking for your money up front.

From the closed pool area we all went back to our room and chatted some more. After a bit GF’s parents left and we read some of the guides we had with us. I got tired and started trying to go to sleep, but GF kept bothering me reading me stuff out of the books. (At the time I kept saying, “I want to go to sleep,” but luckily she kept me up as long as she did.) She finally put the book down and said, “Okay, I’ll let you go to sleep” when she announced, “Oh God I see a big bug.” I bolted up and followed her pointing finger to see a critter at least 2 inches long crawling across the ceiling. GF broke through my feeling of disgust with the observation that, “It might be a palmetto bug….Or it might be a roach.” At this point I was jumping out of bed and feeling my skin crawl. The bug was right over top of the 2nd bed where all of our open suitcases were—I was just waiting for it to fall in on top of our stuff. I asked GF, “Well which is it? And what’s a palmetto bug?” She said, “I don’t know I’ve just heard of palmetto bugs in the south—maybe it’s one of those. But I really think it’s a roach.” (FYI—we found out when we got home and I looked on wikipedia that a palmetto bug is just another name for a cockroach.) It looked something like this:


I’d never seen a roach and GF hadn’t seen many, so we were unsure what to do. It was large enough that we couldn’t just swat it to kill it—we’d have to crush it *scared* and it was still over top of our stuff. Plus we figured if we got anywhere near it, it would just run away and we’d lose sight of it; then we’d end up having to spend the night knowing there was a live cockroach in the room. We debated for a moment and then GF said decisively, “This is a hotel. We shouldn’t have to deal with this. I’m calling the front desk.” She called and they said they’d send a porter. I put on some clothes in preparation of the porter arriving and we waited, hoping the bug wouldn’t find somewhere to hide before the porter got there. About 15 minutes later there was still no porter, but the roach had managed to find a wall and proceeded to fall/craw/fly down it onto the night table in between the beds where my wallet was sitting. We figured it was heading for the beds next so GF announced, “Pack up. We’re leaving.” I snatched my wallet hoping the roach wouldn’t come any closer and it didn’t. We were out of there in about 20 seconds and headed to the front desk with me still half in pjs.

We got to the desk and went to the area which said “manager” though we weren’t sure that the employee there actually was a manager. He was taking care of other folks for about 10 minutes and then it was our turn. GF and I were both disgusted, but we generally are softies when things like this happen and then we end up getting the minimum compensation for such problems. I was afraid they would just put us in another Garden room in that area, and I figured that roach’s brothers and sisters were probably in the rooms nearby. GF told me she’d try her best to seem angry and upset and she did a good job as she relayed the story. The guy behind the counter listened without reacting and then asked for our room number. We gave it to him and he looked it up on the computer. Then he asked which one of us was “MyName” and I indicated that was me. He said, “Just checking” and typed a bit more. At this point we’d been standing at the counter for at least 5 minutes and the guy had not even said he was sorry and, in fact, had given no reaction at all. After the last bit of typing he looked up and then his face changed into a fake smile and he said, “Well first, I apologize.” (I was sure that he was reading instructions about what to do/say on the screen—“Step 1: Smile and apologize to the guest.”) Then he got out two new hotel key cards and programmed them and then told us we’d be staying on the 19th floor of the Island Paradise Tower, the newest part of the hotel where GF’s parents were staying. All I really wanted was a new room in an area w/out cockroaches—and I hoped the 19th floor would be high enough!—so this was fine. We did find the guy’s lack of reaction pretty strange though—especially if he was really a manager. It was as if they had these complaints about cockroaches everyday so there was nothing surprising about it at all. (I read some reviews of the Tropicana after we got home and I suspect this might have been the case, at least regarding the Garden rooms.)

The Island Paradise Tower area was much nicer—both the hallways and the room. (GF’s parents actually heard that the Tropicana is tearing down all of the rooms except those in the Island Paradise Tower.) As we stepped out of the elevator, though, GF did notice a smoke smell. (Strangely since she just quit smoking and I’ve never smoked, you’d think I’d notice it before she would *confused*.) Inside our room there was an even stronger smoke smell, along with ashtrays on the table. We realized the ****-roach room had also had an ashtray, though it didn’t have a smoke smell. We didn’t understand why they didn’t give us a non-smoking room after the conversation at check in. It didn’t really bother us though; we did have some stuffy noses at night which we thought could have been the smoke. This room was bigger and better looking and had a great view, plus the beds must have been queen size and were more comfy.



We couldn’t get any good pictures of the view that weren’t blurry, but here’s what our view was like:



06-09-2007, 07:01 AM
Wow! I'm loving these trip reports as we are off to Vegas for the first time shortly and I'm learning such a lot! Thanks!

06-09-2007, 07:31 PM
Thanks for the trip report I really enjoyed it but I have to admit when I read the word cockroache then saw the little critter my excitment for going to Vegas in September was a little lost. I know that all hotels get them but I try not to think of it. Glad you had a great trip. As far as buffets I hate them, someone suggested Mandalay bay buffet, we got in when it was just ending breakfast and starting lunch, YUCK, I didn't enjoy either one, I like plated meals myself. I am looking forward to going to IN and OUT BURGER, heard it was great I'll eat lunch and supper there is I have to. :rotfl: :lmao:

06-18-2007, 04:13 PM
Thanks for the TR.... We go to Vegas almost as much as DL so when I read that you were going to stay in a garden room and going to eat at the Buffet :scared1: all I could do was cringe and wait for the Vegas Vacation reference...
There are some good buffets around that won't break the bank. I like the one at the Orleans hotel. Hubby loves the crawfish!!! There are also ones that are just plain yucky, like the Tropicana... Oh, I could go on forever...

Would love to read more :goodvibes

06-19-2007, 10:26 PM
Thanks for the trip report I really enjoyed it but I have to admit when I read the word cockroache then saw the little critter my excitment for going to Vegas in September was a little lost. I know that all hotels get them but I try not to think of it. Glad you had a great trip. As far as buffets I hate them, someone suggested Mandalay bay buffet, we got in when it was just ending breakfast and starting lunch, YUCK, I didn't enjoy either one, I like plated meals myself. I am looking forward to going to IN and OUT BURGER, heard it was great I'll eat lunch and supper there is I have to. :rotfl: :lmao:

I'm sure you won't find any critters in your room--just avoid the Tropicana's garden rooms :rolleyes1 :)

We actually went to Mandalay Bay for breakfast one morning and we liked it. It wasn't exactly up to a Disney buffet (especially Boma--which I love), but it was about 20 times better than the Trop's buffet. I know what you mean about plated meals though--seems less dangerous than buffets.

Hope you have fun in Sept!

06-19-2007, 10:32 PM
Thanks for the TR.... We go to Vegas almost as much as DL so when I read that you were going to stay in a garden room and going to eat at the Buffet :scared1: all I could do was cringe and wait for the Vegas Vacation reference...

:rotfl: If only we had someone to warn us!

There are some good buffets around that won't break the bank. I like the one at the Orleans hotel. Hubby loves the crawfish!!! There are also ones that are just plain yucky, like the Tropicana... Oh, I could go on forever...

Would love to read more :goodvibes

We read good things about Orleans and a couple of the buffets downtown. We planned to do more off the strip but ended up not getting downtown at all.

Next time we'll be more prepared!

06-20-2007, 12:30 AM
Day 2

On Wednesday morning I woke up around 8:45. Boy that 3 hour time difference sure is nice—it’s usually horribly painful to get up that early on vacation! We headed off to get GF some coffee and then hit the pool. We weren’t sure where the coffee place was so we headed over to the other side of the casino where the buffet was. (Little did we know there was a coffee place smack dab in the middle of the casino which we passed right by and didn’t see :rolleyes: ). We found a place near the buffet and got in line. There were only a few people in front of us, but the line sure moved slowly with only one person working.

We headed down to the pool where GF tried to drink her coffee, but it was quite hot so she could barely sip it. GF NEEDS her coffee everyday—she usually has at least a few cups and sometimes a few shots of espresso. What I find amazing about her habit, though, is that she begins to feel more awake within about 60 seconds of beginning to drink her coffee. She’ll down three sips and suddenly she’s feeling better :laughing: . I keep threatening to replace her coffee with decaf and see if she can tell the difference, or if it’s all just placebo effect.

After some coffee sipping we got in the pool and swam to the other side to see if we could find GF’s mother, but we didn’t see her. We noticed that the pool was much fuller of pretty, in shape, tanned people than Pop Century’s pool is. Needless to say, we feel more comfortable at Pop! :rotfl: After the yucky buffet and the cockroach from the night before, I was in need of some pampering. As I was going to sleep the night before I asked GF if we could do something fun and eat somewhere yummy the next day. While I was reading some of the guidebooks I noticed The Cheesecake Factory at Caesar’s Palace. I don’t know why, but it just sounded really good. I’d never been to The Cheesecake Factory but had heard good things. Plus the idea of cheesecake sounded darn good! So we made plans to take a walk down the strip and explore some hotels and then eat at the Cheesecake Factory.

After getting out of the pool we got a call from GF’s mother who was busy playing slots. GF’s father was out walking the trip and the two of them were going to meet at Rainforest Café in the MGM Grand for lunch. They invited us to eat with them but we told them we’d already made plans to eat. That, and we’d had a very bad experience at the Rainforest Café in Downtown Disney during our last trip—we fully intended to avoid the Rainforest Café at all costs (but you know what they say about the bet laid plans). We hit our room for a bit to shower and change and then hit the strip at about 11:30 am. We’d looked at a map and seen that Caesar’s Palace seemed to be about a mile away. We knew it was almost 100 degrees out, but figured we’d just stop into the hotels on the way as much as possible. After all, we’ve survived August in WDW.

We took a few pictures of the hotels nearby the Tropicana.




That lasted a few minutes until we realized how horribly hot it was and how far apart some of the Casinos are. After MGM I think it’s almost half a mile to Planet Hollywood :faint: . Along the way we walked by a store where an employee was standing outside the entrance and caught GF’s attention. He asked her if she and I “lived together back at home?” I thought this was weird right off the bat, but GF answered “yes.” Then he told us we should come inside for “a free gift.” Obviously there are no “free” gifts, so I was happy to keep walking rather than hear about the strings attached. GF asked why it mattered if we lived together and he replied, “Well if you have licenses that show the same address, I can give you the free gift.” Even though we live together the addresses on our licenses don’t match. GF moved to the state quite awhile ago but hasn’t changed her license yet :rolleyes1 . Luckily this gave us a good excuse to get away from the guy. As we walked we wondered why it mattered if we lived together for whatever the guy was selling.

After what felt like the longest half mile walk of our lives we finally reached Planet Hollywood. Unfortunately by this point GF’s feet had begun hurting. This occurs on every vacation we take (we always go somewhere that involves a lot of walking). I think her feet are somewhat flat plus she thinks she has Plantar fasciitis (I don’t know what that is, but it sounds bad :scared: ). She wears crocs which normally feel fine, but when she does a lot of standing and walking things get painful fast. So sat on a bench for awhile at Planet Hollywood in the Miracle Mile mall. We wanted to look around Planet Hollywood because we’d seen that an Earl of Sandwich was going to be opening there. We hadn’t found a date online though, so we thought maybe it was already open. No such luck though—we couldn’t find anything on the map of the Miracle Mile shops that mentioned Earl of Sandwich and didn’t see anything when we walked through the Casino either :sad1: .

After a short rest on the bench we got up and walked past an information desk where a woman proceeded to ask us if we have licenses showing the same address. How strange that they were asking the same thing again! We stopped and said no our licenses don’t have the same address, and then asked why they were asking. They just said it was a time-share thing and they didn’t know why the addresses mattered. Strange. (We found out more about this later in the trip.)

After resting up a bit we left Planet Hollywood and headed on to Caesar’s Palace. GF was already in pain, so I decided I had to start with the bribing. I promised that we’d buy monorail tickets and take that back to the hotel to spare her the heat and foot pain. I also told her I’d buy her a fancy drink at The Cheesecake Factory, though GF thought that in her tired, sweaty, overheated state alcohol might not be the best idea. After numerous rests along the way we finally made it into Caesars. I headed to the concierge desk and asked for directions to the Cheesecake Factory and was directed to the shops attached to the hotel.

It was probably around this point in the trip that we started to realize just how humongous these hotels/casinos are. We walked all the way through the casino area and found the mall entrance. I took a look at the map only to find that the Cheesecake Factory was all the way at the end of the mall. At this point I thought GF might collapse, but she was a trooper and we made it to the restaurant. It was sooo nice to sit down and eat!

I was shocked at how many options were on the menu. I’m usually pretty indecisive—luckily being a vegetarian narrows down my options considerably most of the time. After about 15 minutes of trying to decide (we had to send the server away at least 3 times) we ordered. I had a lunch special that consisted of pizza of your choice and salad. I asked for a Caesar salad and a fresh mozzarella pizza. GF decided on the lunch sized miso-salmon but asked for mashed potatoes as a side instead of rice which was no problem. She’s a big salmon fan, but had been unsure about getting this because it was on the pricier side. Well it was a good decision to get it because she raved about it! :love: . She said it was the best salmon she ever had and cleaned her plate completely. My meal wasn’t quite as impressive, but I was very happy with it. It was just what I wanted. I’d been hungry for Caesar salad all day but I also always love pizza. I had a bit of pizza left and got that packed up while we were waiting for our cheesecake. I’m more of an adventurous cheesecake eater while GF likes her cheesecake more pure. We tried to compromise but realized the only thing we could both agree on was the plain cheesecake. It seemed boring when we picked it, but man was it good. :woohoo:

More to come: Another long, hot trek back to the hotel and then more time with GF's parents.

06-29-2007, 11:35 AM
great report, i'm waiting the next day:thumbsup2
i have few questions :
at the cheesecake factory how much was the lunch deal pizza salad ?
Do you visit the MM's world and have u some pics ?


07-08-2007, 05:45 PM
great report, i'm waiting the next day:thumbsup2
i have few questions :
at the cheesecake factory how much was the lunch deal pizza salad ?
Do you visit the MM's world and have u some pics ?


I don't know how I missed your post for this long. I didn't see this thread pop up in my subscribed threads.

We went into the M&M store at one point but it appeared to be only a store. I thought there was supposed to be a tour, but when it looked like it was just a store we left. Did we miss something?

I want to say the pizza and salad lunch was probably $10 or $11. I know GF's salmon was something like $14 and mine was a few dollars cheaper.