AKV Concerns........

[momba#9]

We are close to making a decision about adding on at AKV and we just have some concerns. Consider this like a thinking out loud exercise.

Annual dues: Already pretty high fron the initial numbers I've seen. Common sense indicates that when the main sectrion opens in 2009 that dues will increase at a higher rate than the typical 3% or so.

Feature pool: appears the feature pool is in what would be considered the front of the building near parking lots. Seems like a total loss of atmosphere. I realize with the Savanah it was probably necessary but I'm still concerned.

Poolside food: After a BWV stay I realized how important that having food poolside is when you have three kids. I don't see any pool bar or food poolside listed on the maps. The main restaurant appears to be a long walk away. This could be a deal breaker, anyone know for sure?

Future resale value: With other DVC Resorts location seems to dictate resale values; closer to the parks the higher the values. Buying in only for value is foolish but I still have to consider what the values will be when I sell 15 years or so from now. I don't see SSR owners ever getting what they paid back after the 10% commission. I would like to think AKV will have a little something special besides the extra years to keep values up.

Thanks for letting me think out loud. Any comments or holes you can poke in my thoughts will be welcomed.


Thanks,

Mike

[Maistre Gracey]

I'm not sure why common sense will dictate higher dues when Kidani opens. :confused3
Yes, there will be more stuff to pay for, but... there will be a whole bunch of more points sold at the resort to pay for it.
Of course, none of them seem expensive since I own points at Vero Beach.

I will bet dollars to doughnuts DVC/Disney will not let the theme and atmosphere be compromised at the pool area. They are masters of disguise, and I'm sure they find a way to build where you don't constantly see cars flying by.

I would think resale value in 15 years will be a strong point for AKV, as opposed to the 2042 resorts.
The extra something special... :scratchin Well, I like the theme better than BWV or BCV and I would be willing to pay more for it. Does that count?? :teeth:

MG

[tjkraz]

Future resale value: With other DVC Resorts location seems to dictate resale values; closer to the parks the higher the values. Buying in only for value is foolish but I still have to consider what the values will be when I sell 15 years or so from now. I don't see SSR owners ever getting what they paid back after the 10% commission. I would like to think AKV will have a little something special besides the extra years to keep values up.


I'll comment on this in terms of both SSR and AKV.

The main thing to note about both resorts is that right now they are being actively marketed by DVC. In other words, the resale market has TREMENDOUS competition.

Resale values for older resorts are determined by a myriad of factors including supply and demand. Right now the supply for SSR and AKV is through the roof. Regardless of demand, resale prices are going to settle around DVC's ROFR threshold. You just aren't going to see people offering $89 per point for SSR when you can pay $2 more per point for a much simpler transaction direct thru DVC. The same will hold true for AKV when points start hitting the resale market.

For the sold-out resorts, supply is much lower meaning that the market has a greater say in pricing.

I bought into SSR at $79 per point and resale is currently in the mid-$80s. After commission I could probably break even on my investment and have 4 years' worth of bargain-basement trips to show for it.

Resale prices for both SSR and AKV will continue to climb just like the others. It just isn't going to happen overnight (SSR started selling less than 4years ago.) If nothing else, DVC's ROFR threshold will ensure that resale prices stay within about $10 of their "new" sales prices.

If DVC is trying to sell 50-year Contemporary or DL contracts for $120 per point, they simply won't let people get 43-45 years at SSR for $90. To do so would be undercutting their own market by eliminating bargain hunters as customers.

[Mtnman44]

Maintanence fees at AKV will stay "in the ball park" with other WDW DVC locations. If they didn't Disney would give themselves the headache of not having enough owners as everyone would sell and own at the other cheaper properties.

That being said, what are the hard numbers for your situation? How many points will you buy. If AKV was actually .50 to $1.00 more per point in dues than other DVCs (unlikely) for the rest of your ownership, is that amount enough to sway your decision? Even if there was such a huge premium in dues for AKV, for most owners this would represent around $150 to $250 extra dollars in expense per year.

[drusba]

Before purchasing, I asked whether there would be food and drink place by the new pool and was told yes; also official site states the pool will have the "Maji Pool Bar." Pool will not be near any parking lot even though it is in front part of building (any parking for Kidani will be under the buildings and was told that would be limited). No one can predict resale values but late end date, and having at Kidani 1BRs sleeping five, extra bathroom in 1BR/2BR and larger size of rooms, will undoubtedly favor AKV 10 to 15 years from now. Opening dues do not really appear to be out of whack with other resorts.

[Mtnman44]

Are you sure you don't want to re-think this? What are you basing this on? You don't think SSR will EVER increase in value, even 10%??????

OKW is the most similar resort to SSR and i think they've done pretty good re: resale value.

I don't see SSR owners ever getting what they paid back after the 10% commission.
Mike

[momba#9]

Are you sure you don't want to re-think this? What are you basing this on? You don't think SSR will EVER increase in value, even 10%??????

OKW is the most similar resort to SSR and i think they've done pretty good re: resale value.



Sure, I'll rethink any of the things I posted. Just speculation on my part. I'd love to see ALL of the resorts increase over time. I just feel the new resorts are priced more appropriately and we'll see less increases over time. I feel OKW was under priced when offered thus the run up in resale price over time. No doubt ROFR has propped that up to some degree also.

My personal situation is that I currently have enough points for 6 days in a 2 bedroom during high season at BCV and I'd like to add on enough to cover another 2 bedroom for 5 days (Sun -Fr.) elsewhere. Assuming AKV I would need around 265 to cover SV 2 bedroom during high season. Any points not used I'd bank for longer stay the next year.

Keep the responses coming, all have beeen EXTREMELY helpful and I appreciate that.


Mike

[Anthony1971]

As far as dues increasing.. No one can truly predict that AKV may or may not end up higher... Having its own Animals would cause one to expect to pay a little more but if you wnat to stay there year after year it is worth it. Disney could raise them enough to cause some to sell or even a lot but if you sell you need a buyer so someone will be paying the dues most people will not give up thier buy in and just stop paying dues and have Dinsey take the points back as paying the dues would be cheaper than booking cash
SSR not geeting thier money back :lmao: a good number of us already have being a lot of us paid below the 85 ROFR and no closing costs I am sure June 5 the ROFR will go up now if Disney lifts the ROFR than evryone who bought in any DVC recently and earlier will most likely lose money IF they were to sell. A timeshare is a risk so is buying a house or any other large purchase. Buying DVC is like buying a car it has an expected life and a purpose and like a car you would expect it to lose money if you sell as the next owner will have a shorter life expecatancy the only thing standing in the way is ROFR there are other factors but no other is greater than time as if I bought my contract with 50 years of use and sell it you with 45 for the same price I paid for it I have already paid less than you per point per year and then only paid my Maint. dues for vacation so I would pay 677.32 for my two bedroom OKW room in Septmber for 6 nights including a weekend night using this years dues :thumbsup2 I could not even stay at AS's for that much less have 6 people in the room or could I :scared1:

[ADP]

We are close to making a decision about adding on at AKV and we just have some concerns. Consider this like a thinking out loud exercise.

Annual dues: Already pretty high fron the initial numbers I've seen. Common sense indicates that when the main sectrion opens in 2009 that dues will increase at a higher rate than the typical 3% or so.

Feature pool: appears the feature pool is in what would be considered the front of the building near parking lots. Seems like a total loss of atmosphere. I realize with the Savanah it was probably necessary but I'm still concerned.

Poolside food: After a BWV stay I realized how important that having food poolside is when you have three kids. I don't see any pool bar or food poolside listed on the maps. The main restaurant appears to be a long walk away. This could be a deal breaker, anyone know for sure?

Future resale value: With other DVC Resorts location seems to dictate resale values; closer to the parks the higher the values. Buying in only for value is foolish but I still have to consider what the values will be when I sell 15 years or so from now. I don't see SSR owners ever getting what they paid back after the 10% commission. I would like to think AKV will have a little something special besides the extra years to keep values up.

Thanks for letting me think out loud. Any comments or holes you can poke in my thoughts will be welcomed.


Thanks,

Mike

I'll take a shot at addressing your concerns:

As others have already stated; with more points being sold dues should rise the normal rate per year about 3% to 4%. That's usually a good estimate.

The feature pool complex is near some of the parking areas (guest parking is under the resort, but these maybe spaces for valet); however, looking at the pool complex schematic from a distance it looks like part of it will be near a savanna as well. My guess is that there will be a viewing area in the pool complex. I would venture to guess that the pool complex near the parking area will be dressed with a lot of trees and other folage. From the artists renderings I've seen of the pool area is looks fabulous.

There is a pool bar in the pool complex. I've seen it in the artist renderings. It's called Maji Pool Bar. I would assume it will serve food since Kidani Village will not have a CS restaurant of anykind. The only other place to get CS food would be at The Mara located at Jambo House. What those food offerings will be is anyone's guess.

As for the future of the resort and resale value; keep this in mind. The Animal Kingdom Park and Animal Kingdom resort area maybe remote now, but in 15 years they maybe right in the middle of a lot of new Disney development. That may or may not include a 5th theme park or 3rd water park. As you've probably seen Disney has worked in the last couple of years extending the Western Beltway (Western Way). It just so happens that road enters/exits Disney property near AK/AKL/AKV. This road is a key to Disney's future development. By the way, AKV is already right next door to one of Disney's theme parks; Animal Kingdom. :)

Good luck with your decision!

[pilferk]

Before purchasing, I asked whether there would be food and drink place by the new pool and was told yes; also official site states the pool will have the "Maji Pool Bar." Pool will not be near any parking lot even though it is in front part of building (any parking for Kidani will be under the buildings and was told that would be limited). No one can predict resale values but late end date, and having at Kidani 1BRs sleeping five, extra bathroom in 1BR/2BR and larger size of rooms, will undoubtedly favor AKV 10 to 15 years from now. Opening dues do not really appear to be out of whack with other resorts.

Beat me to it....I asked the same thing and got the same answer.

I'll leave the "dues increase" discussion to the AKV vs SSR thread. :)

[forcemejure]

I'm going to disagree with your assumption that SSR owners will never be able to recoup their investment.

We bought 150 SSR points 3 months ago for $86/point. At the time, we got 2 DW Annual Pass Exchange Cert that never expire worth about $900 so I figured our cost at about $81/point after $125 closing fees.

It looks like our points today are worth about $84/point on the resale market. If we sold today for $84, we'd "lose" about $1000 after the 10% fees. If I add that to the MF we paid (about $600), our cost for the 10 nights we've used is about $160/night. Booking the same nights direct would have cost us $230/night.

Just 3 months in, we're doing just fine. :thumbsup2

[Mtnman44]

I'm pretty confident that as long as the cost of lodging in WDW increases so will the value of DVC contracts as their value of 30+ years of vacations will also increase in value. Of course, the number of years remaining will be a huge factor in the total value of any DVC contract. 15 years from now, I'm quite sure that SSR and AKV and any newer DVC locations will be among the higher valued DVC contracts, simply because of the time remaining vs. the 2042 resorts.

Personally, I think either SSR or AKV is an excellent choice to buy in right now. It just depends on what type of resort you prefer.


Sure, I'll rethink any of the things I posted. Just speculation on my part. I'd love to see ALL of the resorts increase over time. I just feel the new resorts are priced more appropriately and we'll see less increases over time. I feel OKW was under priced when offered thus the run up in resale price over time. No doubt ROFR has propped that up to some degree also.

My personal situation is that I currently have enough points for 6 days in a 2 bedroom during high season at BCV and I'd like to add on enough to cover another 2 bedroom for 5 days (Sun -Fr.) elsewhere. Assuming AKV I would need around 265 to cover SV 2 bedroom during high season. Any points not used I'd bank for longer stay the next year.

Keep the responses coming, all have beeen EXTREMELY helpful and I appreciate that.


Mike

[gkrykewy]

As you've probably seen Disney has worked in the last couple of years extending the Western Beltway (Western Way). It just so happens that road enters/exits Disney property near AK/AKL/AKV. This road is a key to Disney's future development.

This was one of the reasons I felt AKV was a good buy. We love the resort as-is, but if I understand the locations correctly, it's quite close to the new Western Way Development (LINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_Western_Way_Development)), which was characterized by our ME bus driver as a second Downtown Disney.

[DVC Grammy]

This was one of the reasons I felt AKV was a good buy. We love the resort as-is, but if I understand the locations correctly, it's quite close to the new Western Way Development (LINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_Western_Way_Development)), which was characterized by our ME bus driver as a second Downtown Disney.

ITA :thumbsup2
BTW, do you have any idea of what is meant by "small-scale entertainment businesses" in the Western Way Development?

[gkrykewy]

ITA :thumbsup2
BTW, do you have any idea of what is meant by "small-scale entertainment businesses" in the Western Way Development?

Nope, I don't think anything specific has been announced. If DTD is a model, we might expect a movie theater, theme restaurants, and/or small outdoor entertainment uses (like small amphitheaters for small performances).

[BroganMc]

The only issue I have with thinking of AKV as prime location because of possible future development of the Western Way is that the Western Way is located north of AKL and AK. There isn't even a waterway allowing for possible ferry access. And the distance to AK from AKL (entrance to entrance) is 1 mile, through a protected swamp land. That says to me that AKV will always be remote enough to be accessed by car or bus only, not by foot.

On the other hand, SSR has plenty to access by foot. If they build a pedestrian bridge to Typhoon Lagoon, they can give walkable access to that too.

Disney's Western Way expansion just doesn't seem as appealing to me nor in an area that would affect AKV positively (by making it closer to something). The plans are: "The west-side project would have a decidedly different feel. It would include 4,000 to 5,000 hotel rooms in low- and mid-rise buildings, and would include as much as 500,000 square feet of commercial space for restaurants, shopping and small-scale entertainment businesses. The 450-acre project would rise just outside Disney World near the intersection of State Road 429 and Western Way, and would take eight to 10 years to build."

Saying that, it will most likely retain its value by right of ROFR. I just don't see it becoming a big draw like the Epcot, Magic Kingdom or even DTD resorts. If it was, then that wouldn't be the one Deluxe hotel continually with occupancy issues.

[Maistre Gracey]

Nope, I don't think anything specific has been announced. If DTD is a model, we might expect a movie theater, theme restaurants, and/or small outdoor entertainment uses (like small amphitheaters for small performances).
I'm not sure who the developer of this project is. If it's Disney, than their not building this on their property. I'm pretty sure when I read the article this project was off site.

Am I remembering correctly? :smokin:

MG

[gkrykewy]

Saying that, it will most likely retain its value by right of ROFR. I just don't see it becoming a big draw like the Epcot, Magic Kingdom or even DTD resorts. If it was, then that wouldn't be the one Deluxe hotel continually with occupancy issues.

Really, it has occupancy issues? I wasn't aware of that. It is the one Deluxe where its main amenity, the savannah, basically requires a room rate upgrade from standard. I agree that the Western Way development likely won't be much of a boon, but there is the potential for enhanced access depending on design specifics. I think it's due west of AKV rather than far north, but I could be wrong. Are you suggesting that AKV is being overbuilt?

Personally, my wife and I never seriously considered DVC until we heard about AKV. AKL is a unique draw for us, being huge animal/zoo fans. For us, the resort is nearly a destination unto itself. I think/hope this will help it retain its value, but I don't intend to sell it in any event.

Maistre Gracey, the Western Way development is on Disney property, but not within WDW (however that works).

[Tigger031266]

This is definately a glass half empty thread. Look at the plusses:

- Waterpark type of pool
- 50 yrs
- great theming
- Added Restaurants
- Flat Screens
- Resonable points (range from OKW - Premium)
- Conciege possible
- 5 sleeper rooms
- Extra baths in 1 and 2 BR
- oh yah, I forgot the zoo animals right outside my window!!!!

VAK will become the premium resort until the contemporary resort opens (then it maybe a tie).

[Maistre Gracey]

This is definately a glass half empty thread. Look at the plusses:

- Waterpark type of pool
- 50 yrs
- great theming
- Added Restaurants
- Flat Screens
- Resonable points (range from OKW - Premium)
- Conciege possible
- 5 sleeper rooms
- Extra baths in 1 and 2 BR
- oh yah, I forgot the zoo animals right outside my window!!!!

VAK will become the premium resort until the contemporary resort opens (then it maybe a tie).
All excellent points... except maybe that CRV thing.

Thye theming is what it's all about for me.
Disney= Transporting me out of my regular day in, day out life... Almost like a hologram from Star Trek.
Few resorts can do that for me, and AKV/AKL is one of them. :thumbsup2

MG

[ADP]

The only issue I have with thinking of AKV as prime location because of possible future development of the Western Way is that the Western Way is located north of AKL and AK. There isn't even a waterway allowing for possible ferry access. And the distance to AK from AKL (entrance to entrance) is 1 mile, through a protected swamp land. That says to me that AKV will always be remote enough to be accessed by car or bus only, not by foot.

On the other hand, SSR has plenty to access by foot. If they build a pedestrian bridge to Typhoon Lagoon, they can give walkable access to that too.

Disney's Western Way expansion just doesn't seem as appealing to me nor in an area that would affect AKV positively (by making it closer to something). The plans are: "The west-side project would have a decidedly different feel. It would include 4,000 to 5,000 hotel rooms in low- and mid-rise buildings, and would include as much as 500,000 square feet of commercial space for restaurants, shopping and small-scale entertainment businesses. The 450-acre project would rise just outside Disney World near the intersection of State Road 429 and Western Way, and would take eight to 10 years to build."

Saying that, it will most likely retain its value by right of ROFR. I just don't see it becoming a big draw like the Epcot, Magic Kingdom or even DTD resorts. If it was, then that wouldn't be the one Deluxe hotel continually with occupancy issues.

AKL/AKV will probably never have a walking destination attached to it like a theme park, water park, or shopping district because it would be a distraction and harmful to the animals. If the expectation is to make AKL/AKV like the EPCOT resorts that won't happen either. I would think you will always have to drive or take Disney transportation to get to that mile or two destination next to AKL/AKV. AKL/AKV in its uniquness just can't co-exist right next to certain types of entertainment experiences.

The reason AK and AKL/AKV work well together and can be so close to one another is because the animal theme can co-exist and blend together naturally. Could you imagine a shopping district or an MGM Studios type theme park next to the savannas :scared1:

[Maistre Gracey]

Just curious... Does anyone know the distance as the crow flys from AKL to AK? In other words, pretend there was a fairly straight line walkway to AK. Just how long would that walkway be?

Hey, ya never know.. :idea:

MG

[ADP]

Just curious... Does anyone know the distance as the crow flys from AKL to AK? In other words, pretend there was a fairly straight line walkway to AK. Just how long would that walkway be?

Hey, ya never know.. :idea:

MG

I don't have a map, but I would venture to guess a driver and a 5 iron shot

[Maistre Gracey]

I don't have a map, but I would venture to guess a driver and a 5 iron shot
Okay, who is teeing off? Tiger Woods or Me? :teeth:
(Must be Tiger. Mine wouldn't be straight).

MG

[JimC]

I'm not sure who the developer of this project is. If it's Disney, than their not building this on their property. I'm pretty sure when I read the article this project was off site.

Am I remembering correctly? :smokin:

MG

From the press release

VALUE-ORIENTED DESTINATION – MIXED-USE TOURISM DISTRICT

On the western edge of the resort, Disney is planning a mixed-use tourist commercial district just outside Disney’s gateway entrance. The master-planned development is comparable in size to Disney’s Animal Kingdom.

The project combines third-party branded lodging, retail and dining in a pedestrian-friendly environment and will be another example of Disney’s commitment to unique placemaking. Located outside Disney’s gateway around the interchange where Western Way meets the Western Beltway, early development plans include 4,000 - 5,000 low- to mid-rise, value-priced lodging units and 300,000 - 500,000 square feet of commercial space. Designed around a retail village, the development will become a convenient shopping and service center for Cast Members, nearby residents and Central Florida visitors.

The project is currently in the design stage. Site work and branding is anticipated to begin later this year. The project will be built in phases over the next 8 - 10 years.

Link to photos (http://www.allearsnet.com/news/hnews0307.htm)

[Dean]

We are close to making a decision about adding on at AKV and we just have some concerns. Consider this like a thinking out loud exercise.

Annual dues: Already pretty high fron the initial numbers I've seen. Common sense indicates that when the main sectrion opens in 2009 that dues will increase at a higher rate than the typical 3% or so.

Feature pool: appears the feature pool is in what would be considered the front of the building near parking lots. Seems like a total loss of atmosphere. I realize with the Savanah it was probably necessary but I'm still concerned.

Poolside food: After a BWV stay I realized how important that having food poolside is when you have three kids. I don't see any pool bar or food poolside listed on the maps. The main restaurant appears to be a long walk away. This could be a deal breaker, anyone know for sure?

Future resale value: With other DVC Resorts location seems to dictate resale values; closer to the parks the higher the values. Buying in only for value is foolish but I still have to consider what the values will be when I sell 15 years or so from now. I don't see SSR owners ever getting what they paid back after the 10% commission. I would like to think AKV will have a little something special besides the extra years to keep values up.

Thanks for letting me think out loud. Any comments or holes you can poke in my thoughts will be welcomed.


Thanks,

MikeThe dues are in the ball park now and history suggests they will continue to be. VB is really the only outlier IMO. I don't think you need to worry about AKV from a dues standpoint more than the other resorts. I think the feature pool will be very good likely as good or better than SSR main pool but we shall see. I actually think the location of the pool is a good one given the overall set up of the resort. As for food pool side, I really don't know, but it's hard to imagine no pool bar and grill.

Given the current resorts and retail price I think it's a safe bet that AKV will have a resale value greater than SSR even taking the difference in price into account, but in part it depends on what else comes. If CRV does happen, I think it will be the top value resort assuming a reasonably comparable points structure to what we have now.

[BroganMc]

Just curious... Does anyone know the distance as the crow flys from AKL to AK? In other words, pretend there was a fairly straight line walkway to AK. Just how long would that walkway be?


As the crow flies, it is .85 miles (from entrance of AKL to entrance of AK). That includes a couple Cast Member complexes, a swampy wetland and forested area, as well as a corner of the AK parking lot.

[BroganMc]

Are you suggesting that AKV is being overbuilt?

Personally, my wife and I never seriously considered DVC until we heard about AKV. AKL is a unique draw for us, being huge animal/zoo fans. For us, the resort is nearly a destination unto itself. I think/hope this will help it retain its value, but I don't intend to sell it in any event.

Overbuilt? Not necessarily but certainly it is being re-envisioned, hence the conversion of the top two AKL floors to DVC. Since this resort is not in as high demand for CRO it makes sense to try and make it appealing to a different, long stay home-away-from-home crowd. And those that fancy a vacation to the savannah the theming will certainly please.

I just question how appealing that will be to the general population over time. I'm betting folks will care more for location than theming in the long run. That's why the Epcot resorts are doing so incredibly well right now and why CRV is expected to sell out quickly.

Anytime I have talked to guests of AKL I heard the same response. It is so far away from everything and you can only eat at Boma's or look at giraffes so often. What we're talking about in future demand is not if owners want to be there, but whether the non-owners do. That's what affects resale and rental values.

[gkrykewy]

It is so far away from everything and you can only eat at Boma's or look at giraffes so often.

I guess those are fair points, but one could say the same about any of the resorts which are only accessible by bus (i.e. CB, PO, CS, etc). Personally we didn't notice the average bus wait/ride times to be unusually long for AKL, but I suppose they must be a BIT longer.

If AKL were really struggling, I imagine they would have simply made the Phase I conversion to DVC, or perhaps an expanded conversion of Jambo House, without committing to Kidani Village. An interesting indicator will be its sales pace relative to SSR.

[poohmomof5]

Anytime I have talked to guests of AKL I heard the same response. It is so far away from everything and you can only eat at Boma's or look at giraffes so often. What we're talking about in future demand is not if owners want to be there, but whether the non-owners do. That's what affects resale and rental values.

I disagree with this paragraph :) . We stayed at AKL for 10 days over Thanksgiving 2005. At that time our kids were 13,12,11,8 and 1. We completely fell in love with the place.

We actually stayed at the hotel for 3 of those days because there was sooooooo much to do onsite.

Being honest, we only chose to stay at AKL because of the baby, thinking she would love the animals and the adult that was stuck with her at the hotel while she napped would be able to sit on the balcony and look out over the Savannah! But we all agreed at the end of the trip, including every single one of the kids, that this was by far our favorite WDW resort. Nothing else could possibly compare. We have stayed at the Carribbean Beach, Beach Club (water view), Poly (MK view), Contemporary (MK view, 10th floor), Fort Wilderness Cabins, and Boardwalk (BW view, concierge).

So here are my rebuttals...(please note this is strictly to give my humble opinion, I totally think that everyone has a right to their own opinions and while I disagree with this quote, I have no issue whatsoever with her thoughts and respect her opinions)

"So far away from everything"...while it is further away in distance, the resort has DEDICATED busses. When we stayed at the Beach Club and Boardwalk, unless you are going to EPCOT, you will have a MUCH longer ride to the parks because you need to stop at other resorts and wait for loading or unloading. It is the same at the MK resorts too. That sure wastes alot of time...Yuck!

"You can only eat at Boma's so many times"...this one is an interesting comment, I think you can only eat at O'Hana's, Chef Mickeys etc "so many times", both of the table service eateries at AKL were fabulous, and the Mara is by far the best counter service eatery we have ever eaten at. Lots of fresh fruit, sandwiches, interesting wine choices, bakery, and of course all the typical "fast food" type options, including some unusual ones, like Fish and Chips, wonderful soup bowls, and much more...yummmmm!

"look at Giraffes so often"...this is true, but it sure is nice to drink your coffee on your balcony and watch the animals frolic, graze, and relax on the savannah. It is just so relaxing, much different than any other resort. In addition to the savannah, they have regular activities for the kids daily including arts and crafts, animal education games, (including finding Timon with and actual animal locator...my kids favorite). They have African Drummers nightly and they even give kids their own instruments to play along with. Also, the night vision goggles they have are so much fun to use! They have beads that they give the kids for every activity.

As for your last comment, totally 100 percent true...the law of supply and demand will ultimately decide what the resale value may be worth. It will be fun to see how it all plays out, but honestly, I hope I will never have to sell my points, because we LOVE AKL!

I would venture to guess that alot of people have probably never stayed there, but I think the coolest thing about WDW is that is has something for everyone, and if animals and a safari type adventure is not something that interests you, you probably won't like AKL, no big deal. But I hope everyone reading this gives it a try, because it is truly unique and because of the distance, it was much more relaxing than the other hotels we stayed at.

Good luck with your decision!

Poohmom :hippie:

[bobbiwoz]

I "voted" with my pocketbook, we added on AKV because it's the perfect addition to our DVC portfolio. It's a destination resort that I hope to enjoy and I hope my family enjoys for years to come.

Bobbi:goodvibes

PS. I agree that the Mara offers a good food selection.
PPS. I agree that this is a "glass half empty" thread...thank you,
Tigger031266, for noticing that! As I read through the thread, I became uneasy, and you hit upon the reason.

[pilferk]

Overbuilt? Not necessarily but certainly it is being re-envisioned, hence the conversion of the top two AKL floors to DVC. Since this resort is not in as high demand for CRO it makes sense to try and make it appealing to a different, long stay home-away-from-home crowd. And those that fancy a vacation to the savannah the theming will certainly please.


Most of the occupancy issues come from, from what we've seen and heard, the occupancy of the deluxe rooms...which, apparently, there wasn't as much of a market for as they expected there to be. The rest of the hotel seems to do OK.


I just question how appealing that will be to the general population over time. I'm betting folks will care more for location than theming in the long run. That's why the Epcot resorts are doing so incredibly well right now and why CRV is expected to sell out quickly.


Different strokes for different folks, and all that. To some people, location to the parks is a driving factor. Others like access to "nightlife", shopping, golf, etc. Others still like a "destination" resort close to the theme parks, but not right next door (that, FYI, is me!). I think AKV has MANY things going for it that make it very appealing...the mini-water park, the ability to get 5 in a 1BR and 9 in a 2BR, the "extra" bathroom at Kidani, the savannah (the big one), the large number of extra years over all the current resorts EXCEPT SSR, and probably the best hotel to theme park transportation on property (assuming it holds up after AKV opens).


Anytime I have talked to guests of AKL I heard the same response. It is so far away from everything and you can only eat at Boma's or look at giraffes so often. What we're talking about in future demand is not if owners want to be there, but whether the non-owners do. That's what affects resale and rental values.

Odd...that's the concern I hear from people considering a stay. From those that have actually stayed, I don't hear it so much. Most of them say things like "I was worried, but the transportation was SOOOO good...etc, etc". Sure, there are some gripes (see "different strokes" above) but largely I don't see actual guests complaining much....it's the potential guests/perception that seem to "worry".

[kend58]

The only issue I have with thinking of AKV as prime location because of possible future development of the Western Way is that the Western Way is located north of AKL and AK. There isn't even a waterway allowing for possible ferry access. And the distance to AK from AKL (entrance to entrance) is 1 mile, through a protected swamp land. That says to me that AKV will always be remote enough to be accessed by car or bus only, not by foot.

I believe it is the remoteness of AKL and AKV that make this a destination resort. I am considering becoming an owner and think of it as the equivalent of HHI or VB a destination resort - It has it's very own Animal viewing Savanas and access within 15 minutes (1 mile) of the DAK theme park and will have when completed excellent on site Pool and dining opportunities.

I get all that and extra years and 15 to 30 minutes by Bus to all the rest of WDW (while VB is 2 hrs by car or town-car and HHI is 5 hrs) I love AKV and am waiting for the first of you folks to let go of those small add-ons you don't want (DVD as your well aware won't sell me less than 160 points and I really only need 85 or so for my every 2 or 3 year vacation plans at WDW)

I think AKV shows Disneys Imagineering off at it's best they are getting back to some of Walts orginal visions (e.g. live animals on the Jungle cruise was his original concept) on a grand scale.
All of the above is as always IMHO and as always YMMV - Just tying to get us back to glass-half-full - Kool-Aid anyone :rotfl2:

[tjkraz]

The nearby Western Way Development - while off-property the anchor property development the 4 Seasons Hotel will be developed by Disney and Managed by 4 seasons. Disney isn't going to blow this development off they are going to blow the industrys mind with what they deliver in the Western Area over the next 15 years and then once it is all developed (just like those 35 remaining year contracts at BCV have great value now the 35 remaining year contracts at AKV will have great value then) because to be on Disney property and near the Western development upscale new development amenities will be what many people will want and AKV will be the DVC way to get it.

If I'm reading you right, I think you might be mixing up a couple of projects.

While the Western Way project is in the vicinity of AKL, the focus there is on building a shopping center and moderately priced hotels run by other companies. The goal here is to use Disney's land to compete with run-of-the-mill shopping complexes and off-site hotels in the LBV area.

The Four Seasons development is on the other side of the property, where the Eagle Pines golf course currently stands. This site is about a mile up the road from Old Key West and POFQ.

[kend58]

My mistake:badpc:

[dianeschlicht]

Okay, here's my take.

First of all, AKV will NOT be a "walk to the parks" destination, and in my book that's a GOOD thing! One of the reasons I dislike BWV is that I feel like I do twice as much walking there as I do at OKW. I hate the time it takes on the boat to MGM and Epcot, so I just walk, and that gets to be more of an issue every year. Even though OKW is spread out, I do very little extra walking there, because of the convenient bus stops. I can't see that AKV will be any different than that. Probably only a couple of bus stops and long hallways, but I can bus to parks instead of walking. I'm assuming AKV will have it's own dedicated buses too, just as OKW and SSR do. I'm guessing they will share with AKL, but that shouldn't be an issue.

I bought AKV points because I love the destination and the savanna. I can see us eventually selling off one OKW contract and converting it to more AKV points just for the added value in regards to resale with the extra 15 years over the OKW contracts.

I'm not at all worried about the maintenance issues. I think the initial maintenance is high because of the need for barns etc, but once the savanna is complete, those costs will be shared with the main AKL, since the savanna in question will serve both buildings. Basically, the "new" savanna is an expansion of an existing one.

I think the main draw at AKV is the savanna and the total immersion into the theme, much like VWL.

[tjkraz]

OK I'll jump into the fray with a few general comments since this seems to have degenerated into another AVK vs SSR thread (Ugh!)

Some have mentioned the sleeper chair, extra bathroom and larger rooms as driving resale demand for AKV. I'm not sure I agree with that.

First, I think the sleeper chairs will be added to the other resorts sooner rather than later. DVC is already upgrading all resorts' sofabeds (certainly a costlier move), buying more expensive mattresses, adding DVD players to studios, etc. With the expanded occupancy (5 and 9 guests) being condoned by DVC for several years now, IMO it's inevitable that they will add sleeping accommodations for the additional guest.

As for the other items, the problem I have is that I don't see similar in-room features driving demand for other resorts. I have not witnessed a great number of people stating that their primary reason for buying OKW is the larger rooms. I don't see people deciding to buy SSR because they can book dedicated 2Bs with two queen beds. I don't see people buying BWV because it has studio rooms with daybeds.

I think the main issues that drive a purchase decision--not necessarily in this order--are:

1. Visual appeal. People aren't going to buy at the dark, backwoods resort if they want that airy beach feel (and vice versa.)
2. Resort amenities. Large pool...golf course...spa...savanna...take your pick.
3. Location. Near the parks...near DTD...out in the middle of nowhere (which certainly DOES appeal to many people.)
4. Cost. Everybody looks at the price tag. ;)

Throw all of that into a blender and each person should be able to come up with their best case scenario.

IMO, things like having an extra bathroom are nice, but I don't see them playing a major role in the purchase decision for most people. If I like the look and location of AKV, the extra bathroom may be icing on the cake, but I'm not going to buy there just for the extra bath if I can't stand the dark wood furniture and isolation of the resort.

The lower point rooms at AKV are attractive, but I think there is room to question whether that will have any impact on resale prices. BWV has Standard View rooms yet resale prices there are about the same as VWL (with just one room class.) BCV contracts sell for even more than BWV yet have the same ending date, same location and lack the lower-point rooms.

Some of that pricing is certainly driven by supply and demand, but not all of it. After all the supply at VWL is about half of BCV, yet BCV pricing is higher.

As for resale value between SSR and AKV, all I can do is fall back on supply and demand and guess that AKV will be a little higher since SSR is about 50% larger. I still think that my list above (visual appeal, location, etc.) will play more of a role in resale pricing, but it's far too early to determine which resort will be preferred by the masses.

[dianeschlicht]

OK I'll jump into the fray with a few general comments since this seems to have degenerated into another AVK vs SSR thread (Ugh!)

I don't recall doing any comparison to SSR, tjkraz. I do agree with you that the sleeper chairs will be added to the other DVC 1 bedrooms too. I feel that the extra bathroom IS a big plus though. It puts one of the DVC properties on the same plane with many other timeshares where the 1 bedroom units also have a second 3/4 bath.

I think the main issues that drive a purchase decision--not necessarily in this order--are:

1. Visual appeal. People aren't going to buy at the dark, backwoods resort if they want that airy beach feel (and vice versa.)
2. Resort amenities. Large pool...golf course...spa...savanna...take your pick.
3. Location. Near the parks...near DTD...out in the middle of nowhere (which certainly DOES appeal to many people.)
4. Cost. Everybody looks at the price tag.

I concur with these 4, and I think it is these that mainly draw current owners to add-on at a new resort. Number 4 is probably more looked at by new oners than existing ones.

[dianeschlicht]

Oh, and I think the BIGGEST issue in the future for resale prices is eventually going to be ending date! In a few years, my OKW contracts will be down below the 25 year mark, but my AKV contract will still have 40 years left.

[tjkraz]

I don't recall doing any comparison to SSR, tjkraz.

Sorry, that wasn't directed at anyone specifically. You and I were probably typing at the same time as I just read your reply. :)

[pilferk]

OK I'll jump into the fray with a few general comments since this seems to have degenerated into another AVK vs SSR thread (Ugh!)

Some have mentioned the sleeper chair, extra bathroom and larger rooms as driving resale demand for AKV. I'm not sure I agree with that.

First, I think the sleeper chairs will be added to the other resorts sooner rather than later. DVC is already upgrading all resorts' sofabeds (certainly a costlier move), buying more expensive mattresses, adding DVD players to studios, etc. With the expanded occupancy (5 and 9 guests) being condoned by DVC for several years now, IMO it's inevitable that they will add sleeping accommodations for the additional guest.


Can they? I mean, the rooms are "filed" as having an existing occupancy level. While I know they can turn a blind eye toward people going over that level, I'm not sure (and someone please clarify if you can) they can increase the occupancy directly. I actually hope they can! We're a family of 5, and one of the reasons AKV ended up being even more appealing was the fact we wouldn't have to buy as many points (which goes toward your "price tag" point) to get our family in a room. Soon, if we want to use other resorts, it's going to mean booking a 2BR once the baby is a bit older.


As for the other items, the problem I have is that I don't see similar in-room features driving demand for other resorts. I have not witnessed a great number of people stating that their primary reason for buying OKW is the larger rooms. I don't see people deciding to buy SSR because they can book dedicated 2Bs with two queen beds. I don't see people buying BWV because it has studio rooms with daybeds.


I agree. not primary reasons. But certainly factors in determining #4, below...or rather determining value for the cost, which I think is part of that consideration. The added "stuff" at AKV seems to increase the value of your points, at least for now, because to get the stuff you get "stock" at AKV, you'd have to spend more points at the other resorts (increased occupancy and bathrooms). Also, keep in mind, at least when I was discussing those factors, I was simply talking about concerns when buying (or continuing to own and use at AKV)....not in relation to resale value specifically.



I think the main issues that drive a purchase decision--not necessarily in this order--are:

1. Visual appeal. People aren't going to buy at the dark, backwoods resort if they want that airy beach feel (and vice versa.)
2. Resort amenities. Large pool...golf course...spa...savanna...take your pick.
3. Location. Near the parks...near DTD...out in the middle of nowhere (which certainly DOES appeal to many people.)
4. Cost. Everybody looks at the price tag. ;)



Absolutely agree. Those are the primary factors. But those primary factors can either conflict with one another, or only narrow the field so far. It seems when weighing many of the resorts, you end up with pros and cons in each of those categories. So then it comes down to some of the lesser factors, and how they appeal to consumers and families. I think AKV has enough of those to give it a good chance in the hunt. Now, I'm not saying it will increase in value FASTER than the other resorts (at least not until their contract expiry's get closer)...but I think there are enough benefits for it to keep pace.


Throw all of that into a blender and each person should be able to come up with their best case scenario.

IMO, things like having an extra bathroom are nice, but I don't see them playing a major role in the purchase decision for most people. If I like the look and location of AKV, the extra bathroom may be icing on the cake, but I'm not going to buy there just for the extra bath if I can't stand the dark wood furniture and isolation of the resort.


Agreed. But just like when you're looking at houses...you find 2 houses you like, same general price range, but one has some extra sq ftage and an extra bath......those small things start to become factors.


The lower point rooms at AKV are attractive, but I think there is room to question whether that will have any impact on resale prices. BWV has Standard View rooms yet resale prices there are about the same as VWL (with just one room class.) BCV contracts sell for even more than BWV yet have the same ending date, same location and lack the lower-point rooms.

Some of that pricing is certainly driven by supply and demand, but not all of it. After all the supply at VWL is about half of BCV, yet BCV pricing is higher.


I agree. I think the biggest selling point of AKV are the savannah views, and I think how much the value rooms influence resale (if at all) will directly correlate to how often owners find (and report) they book a value room and get a savannah view vs a parking lot view. That "lottery" effect may minimize any "benefit" the value rooms would otherwise have.

It would be interesting to see what resale prices would do NOT propped up by ROFR or Disney's selling "sold out" points. Those two things, alone, seem to dictate resale prices have to stay in a specific range...



As for resale value between SSR and AKV, all I can do is fall back on supply and demand and guess that AKV will be a little higher since SSR is about 50% larger. I still think that my list above (visual appeal, location, etc.) will play more of a role in resale pricing, but it's far too early to determine which resort will be preferred by the masses.

I agree...I think, ultimately, in that showdown supply and demand ends up being the mitigating factor....because other things just balance out in the end. I think the 2 will likly keep pretty close pace to each other (and the other resorts for awhile)...AKV may nose ahead a bit, but I doubt by much.

[tjkraz]

Can they? I mean, the rooms are "filed" as having an existing occupancy level. While I know they can turn a blind eye toward people going over that level, I'm not sure (and someone please clarify if you can) they can increase the occupancy directly.

I don't see why not. Seems to me that Disney could build a room with 4 beds and still limit occupancy at 4.

In formally setting occupancy at 4 persons, Disney has provided minimum sleeping accommodations for a party that size. That shouldn't preclude them from increasing the number of beds, even if the occupancy does not change.

We're a family of 5, and one of the reasons AKV ended up being even more appealing was the fact we wouldn't have to buy as many points (which goes toward your "price tag" point) to get our family in a room. Soon, if we want to use other resorts, it's going to mean booking a 2BR once the baby is a bit older.


I think many people who want to put 5 in a 1B have already invested in an air bed. Not a big expense if used repeatedly.

[pilferk]

I think many people who want to put 5 in a 1B have already invested in an air bed. Not a big expense if used repeatedly.

Yeah, I"m a stickler for "the rules", though. I don't like breaking (or asking Disney to turn a blind eye to) a posted occupancy level. I just don't feel comfortable doing it.... I know others do it, and I'm certainly not judging them, since Disney appears to be "ok" with it (for now). But I won't.

I also don't feel comfortable making THAT type of financial commitment based on doing something against a stated policy that Disney simply has chosen, at this time, not to enforce....because 6 months or a year from now,they could change their mind and I don't want to scramble to buy more points, or change bookings, based on that.

[pilferk]

I don't see why not. Seems to me that Disney could build a room with 4 beds and still limit occupancy at 4.

In formally setting occupancy at 4 persons, Disney has provided minimum sleeping accommodations for a party that size. That shouldn't preclude them from increasing the number of beds, even if the occupancy does not change.

I'm just not sure....Florida time share law is very specific about what you're allowed to modify, especially post purchase, on a unit. If this were simply a hotel room...I think they could do it. With a time share unit....I think it might be a different story. Anyone familiar with time share law know for sure? I'd think, like tjkraz, that "additions" would probably be OK, so long as they're not removing occupancy.....but I know in relation to other things that changes can be sticky.

[tjkraz]

Yeah, I"m a stickler for "the rules", though. I don't like breaking (or asking Disney to turn a blind eye to) a posted occupancy level. I just don't feel comfortable doing it.... I know others do it, and I'm certainly not judging them, since Disney appears to be "ok" with it (for now). But I won't.


Next you're going to tell me you don't go over the posted speed limit, right? ;)

In this case I think it's more than simply turning a blind eye to the situation. This isn't a wink, wink situation where DVC lists 4 names but will let you have 5. Here they are actually condoning the occupancy increase by allowing guests to put 5 or 9 names in the reservation.

Yes, it the rule could be changed at any time and people need to be aware of that. Just one of many "what ifs" that we can continue to debate for the next 50 years.

[nuts]

Maintanence fees at AKV will stay "in the ball park" with other WDW DVC locations. If they didn't Disney would give themselves the headache of not having enough owners as everyone would sell and own at the other cheaper properties.


Well, that doesn't make sense. Once Disney does the initial sale, they have all the members they need. If the original owner resells to buy a lower cost site, then the new owner picks up the maintenance fees. Also, keep in mind that Disney does not set the maintenance fees...DVC does. By law the maintenance fees have to be cost recovery. Where disney does make a profit on this is the fact that DVC contracts with resorts for most of the labor. You can bet that resorts has a profit element included in their labor rates :rolleyes1

[Maistre Gracey]

Well, that doesn't make sense. Once Disney does the initial sale, they have all the members they need. If the original owner resells to buy a lower cost site, then the new owner picks up the maintenance fees. Also, keep in mind that Disney does not set the maintenance fees...DVC does. By law the maintenance fees have to be cost recovery. Where disney does make a profit on this is the fact that DVC contracts with resorts for most of the labor. You can bet that resorts has a profit element included in their labor rates :rolleyes1
I think this is true to a point.
If the resort is not yet sold out, a bunch of resales on the market will indeed impact sales directly from DVC.

I also believe that while dues are not suppose to be a profit maker, there is a management fee that DVC can charge.
A rose by any other name...

MG

[pilferk]

Next you're going to tell me you don't go over the posted speed limit, right? ;)

In this case I think it's more than simply turning a blind eye to the situation. This isn't a wink, wink situation where DVC lists 4 names but will let you have 5. Here they are actually condoning the occupancy increase by allowing guests to put 5 or 9 names in the reservation.

Yes, it the rule could be changed at any time and people need to be aware of that. Just one of many "what ifs" that we can continue to debate for the next 50 years.

I stick pretty close, actually, to the speed limit. 3 tickets and a stint in traffic school means that, yes, I stick pretty close to the +- 7 rule. Hate to admit it, but it's true. :)

Again, "condoning" or not, AFAIK the declaration for the other resorts sets the occupancy level (I KNOW it does in AKV's). Disney can turn a blind eye to that (overtly, in this case), can even set their systems up to do it, thereby quasi-condoning it, but I still think it best to "bank" on the declaration...because it's the only legally enforceable document the owner/guest has.

The only thing between 4 and 5 (or 8 and 9) is Disney's whim...something I'm not willing to bank on. I can't possibly show up (and I know....they're unlikely to change things so drastically, so quickly, but allow me a bit of hyperbole) and find that my party of 5 now cant' fit into the room we booked because yesterday Disney Management didn't get their Mocha Latte Supremo's with extra foam on them. Which isn't to say Disney can't modify the declaration, and add sleeper chairs, as you suggest above. Maybe there is some provision for doing that. IF they do that, it's all moot. But until they do, I'll abide by "the rules"....and certainly make any purchasing decisions with them in mind....because that's what I feel most comfortable doing. YMMV.

[pilferk]

Well, that doesn't make sense. Once Disney does the initial sale, they have all the members they need. If the original owner resells to buy a lower cost site, then the new owner picks up the maintenance fees. Also, keep in mind that Disney does not set the maintenance fees...DVC does. By law the maintenance fees have to be cost recovery. Where disney does make a profit on this is the fact that DVC contracts with resorts for most of the labor. You can bet that resorts has a profit element included in their labor rates :rolleyes1

There are some "fees" built in to compensate the management company..but I agree. Looking at the budget, it's not like those fees are excessive, or the managment fees piece looks to be a huge profit center in relation to the dues, or resorts as a whole.

[Mtnman44]

If AKV cost $9.00 a point in dues and every other DVC cost around $5.00, trust me, the imbalance of value would cause havoc at DVC. Many would be dumping their AKV contracts and disney would be forced to use ROFR or deal with market depreciation.

Well, that doesn't make sense. Once Disney does the initial sale, they have all the members they need. If the original owner resells to buy a lower cost site, then the new owner picks up the maintenance fees. Also, keep in mind that Disney does not set the maintenance fees...DVC does. By law the maintenance fees have to be cost recovery. Where disney does make a profit on this is the fact that DVC contracts with resorts for most of the labor. You can bet that resorts has a profit element included in their labor rates :rolleyes1

[bobbiwoz]

If AKV cost $9.00 a point in dues and every other DVC cost around $5.00, trust me, the imbalance of value would cause havoc at DVC. Many would be dumping their AKV contracts and disney would be forced to use ROFR or deal with market depreciation.

This would cause me to use my AKV points only at AKV, and I imagine that many would do the same with the points they keep. Why should I subsidize someone else's stay?
Bobbi:goodvibes

[Dean]

I'm just not sure....Florida time share law is very specific about what you're allowed to modify, especially post purchase, on a unit. If this were simply a hotel room...I think they could do it. With a time share unit....I think it might be a different story. Anyone familiar with time share law know for sure? I'd think, like tjkraz, that "additions" would probably be OK, so long as they're not removing occupancy.....but I know in relation to other things that changes can be sticky.Given the way the POS is written they probably could add to it legally but not take away. I don't believe anything is FS 718 or 721 would directly prevent this change other than as it applies to changes in the POS in general. I don't know the fire code info well enough to offer a comment in that direction.

[Dean]

If AKV cost $9.00 a point in dues and every other DVC cost around $5.00, trust me, the imbalance of value would cause havoc at DVC. Many would be dumping their AKV contracts and disney would be forced to use ROFR or deal with market depreciation.What you'd end up with eventually is a large amount of non performing contracts and the dues would be shared between a smaller group of owners. I've seen this happen at a number of resorts over the years and is very common at seasonal resorts, those with poor management and those with thieves in control.

[BroganMc]

probably the best hotel to theme park transportation on property (assuming it holds up after AKV opens).

Well the best along with OKW, SSR and any future DVC that does share bus service with another resort.

Odd...that's the concern I hear from people considering a stay. From those that have actually stayed, I don't hear it so much. Most of them say things like "I was worried, but the transportation was SOOOO good...etc, etc". Sure, there are some gripes (see "different strokes" above) but largely I don't see actual guests complaining much....it's the potential guests/perception that seem to "worry".

I guess this is a case of hearing what you want to hear. I've been visiting AKL for 4-5 years now. I always strike up conversations with guests there. I hear how great the resort theme is, how good the restaurants are, how cool it is to have coffee with the giraffes, but I have yet to hear a guest regale how wonderful the bus service is. On the contrary, I hear how long the busses take and how "far out" it is from everything. It almost seems to be a compromise between enjoying a great theme vs. being able to enjoy other themes.

I know for me, I ultimately voted to save my add-on dollars for a future CRV. Not because I love the theme at CRV more but because I love its location. AKV is a place I want to try for its theme, and expect I will be able to at 7 mos., but the negatives outweigh the positives. Fortunately I'm not in the situation of a 5 or 9 family. We're either 2-4 or 6-8 guests. That means our decision was based solely on location, theme and resort amenities.

[twinmomplus2new]

I think it's funny to hear people complain about the Bus service at AKL. I think they have one of the best. The Que ( SP) is always nearly empty , I never have to stand coming or going and have always found it to be very prompt.:wizard:

[crisi]

Most of the occupancy issues come from, from what we've seen and heard, the occupancy of the deluxe rooms...which, apparently, there wasn't as much of a market for as they expected there to be. The rest of the hotel seems to do OK.



We stayed in one of those Deluxe rooms - they really are the worst rooms in the hotel. The whole point of staying out at AKL for us was to watch the animals - and five floors up is as far away as you can get from the gazelles and the giraffes. It was a nice room, it was just the wrong location - and having paid more for the worst view, we weren't very satisfied. I suspect that is a big issue with those family suites.

Course, those are the Jambo rooms they are turning over to DVC - so the Jambo rooms won't have a lot of appeal for us - been there, done that, and we'd rather have a smaller room closer to the animals.

Loved the resort though....even with the bad view watching the animals was really special. We'll go back (and may book VAK), but we'll hope for (and book to get) a low floor next time).

[LisaS]

We stayed in one of those Deluxe rooms - they really are the worst rooms in the hotel. The whole point of staying out at AKL for us was to watch the animals - and five floors up is as far away as you can get from the gazelles and the giraffes. It was a nice room, it was just the wrong location - and having paid more for the worst view, we weren't very satisfied. I suspect that is a big issue with those family suites.

Course, those are the Jambo rooms they are turning over to DVC - so the Jambo rooms won't have a lot of appeal for us - been there, done that, and we'd rather have a smaller room closer to the animals.

Loved the resort though....even with the bad view watching the animals was really special. We'll go back (and may book VAK), but we'll hope for (and book to get) a low floor next time).I agree crisi. Our first stay at AKL was in a Deluxe room. We had some great animal viewing from our room and at the time thought it was wonderful. In subsequent stays, we were on the 3rd floor and most recently the 2nd floor and WOW! the view from the second floor puts you at eye level with the giraffes -- incredible!

So for us the choice between Jambo House and Kidani will come down to whether we want to try for a room closer to the animals or a room closer to Boma, my DH's other favorite thing about AKL.

[momba#9]

I just wanted to thank everyone here in this thread for all of the helpful thoughts. I appreciate all of them and they all helped in one way or another.

We have decided not to add on AKV. We are quite happy owning at BCV. I'll try for a 7 month ressie at AKV and we'll keep AKV on the back burner for now.

After trying and not liking SSR and BWV we are a little hesitant to buy a resort before we try it.

Thanks again everyone.



Mike

[BroganMc]

After trying and not liking SSR and BWV we are a little hesitant to buy a resort before we try it.

That's probably the best reason for doing something. Glad the debate helped.

[gkrykewy]

I think it's funny to hear people complain about the Bus service at AKL. I think they have one of the best. The Que ( SP) is always nearly empty , I never have to stand coming or going and have always found it to be very prompt.:wizard:

Yeah, this is a new complaint for me in this thread. Never had any issues with the buses, and never heard any complaints or exasperation from others at AKL. I will say that I hope Kidani has its own bus stop - that would be a very long walk otherwise.

Regarding the viewing height, we've always requested (always being twice :laughing:) high floors to see as much as possible. Will have to try requesting a lower floor once Kidani opens.

I've been visiting AKL for 4-5 years now. I always strike up conversations with guests there.

You don't have any AKL stays listed in your vacation history signature. Are you saying that you took time out of 5 vacations where you weren't staying at AKL just to stop by, hang out in the lobby, and poll guests? ;)

[pilferk]

Well the best along with OKW, SSR and any future DVC that does share bus service with another resort.


Except AKL has one bus stop....making it better than OWK or SSR, because busses can't get "filled" at a previous stop and pass you by. Obviously, only comparing to CURRENT resorts.


I guess this is a case of hearing what you want to hear.


I agree, I'm just not sure it's ME who's doing it. ;) Simply discounting my information because it contradicts yours seems to indicate that, as well. Notice, I didn't say what you were hearing was wrong (it's not, in my expereince, true for me, but others can feel differently). nor did I discount it. I said I found it odd because I've heard differently, and to see something categorized with such finality, when there is lots of differing opionions on the subject, seemed a bit strange. In addition, I was simply pointing out that when I do hear guest "worries" about transport, they seem to often come from those who have not yet stayed there (not always, but notably often). I don't see how my "anecdotal's" are any less compelling than yours......other than that they're not what you want to hear.


I've been visiting AKL for 4-5 years now. I always strike up conversations with guests there. I hear how great the resort theme is, how good the restaurants are, how cool it is to have coffee with the giraffes, but I have yet to hear a guest regale how wonderful the bus service is. On the contrary, I hear how long the busses take and how "far out" it is from everything. It almost seems to be a compromise between enjoying a great theme vs. being able to enjoy other themes.


Again, I'll point to the data around the DIS boards from the AKL guests posting (look at this very thread). Maybe not the most objective scientific data, to be sure. But then, neither is your "striking up conversations with guests", since it's unqualifed anecdotal data. And, granted, I've not taken to surveying other guests while at AKL, since I'm not really conducting market research. However from reading HERE, I seem to read a lot of prospective guests worrying, a lot of previous guest telling them not to worry, and then those prospective guests coming back from their trips and saying "Hey, you're right....it's not bad".

It may very well be about perspective, but the impression you're giving is MOST people feel as you're espousing. There is ample evidence that's simply not true. Many, many, many people say that AKL transportation is the best on property, bar none. Is AKL somewhat removed from things? Yes. But I'm not sure I'd rate a 20-ish minute bus ride to MK, 5 min to AK, and 10 to 15 min to Epcot or MGM as "remote". Again, maybe it's about perspective....but not everyone, and not even MOSTLY everyone, seems to feel the way you indicate. I'd say it's a pretty even split, at the very least.


I know for me, I ultimately voted to save my add-on dollars for a future CRV. Not because I love the theme at CRV more but because I love its location. AKV is a place I want to try for its theme, and expect I will be able to at 7 mos., but the negatives outweigh the positives. Fortunately I'm not in the situation of a 5 or 9 family. We're either 2-4 or 6-8 guests. That means our decision was based solely on location, theme and resort amenities.

To be clear, the negatives outweigh the positives FOR YOU. You seem to imply that equation would apply to everyone (and you probably do it unintentionally). I would peg the CR and AKV as roughly equal, for us. The thing is CRV isn't available...though we'll probably add on if CRV ever comes to fruition....so AKV's positives make it vastly better FOR OUR FAMILY, with all due consideration, than any other offering currently out. Everyone needs to make that determination on their own.....

[pilferk]

We stayed in one of those Deluxe rooms - they really are the worst rooms in the hotel. The whole point of staying out at AKL for us was to watch the animals - and five floors up is as far away as you can get from the gazelles and the giraffes. It was a nice room, it was just the wrong location - and having paid more for the worst view, we weren't very satisfied. I suspect that is a big issue with those family suites.

Course, those are the Jambo rooms they are turning over to DVC - so the Jambo rooms won't have a lot of appeal for us - been there, done that, and we'd rather have a smaller room closer to the animals.

Loved the resort though....even with the bad view watching the animals was really special. We'll go back (and may book VAK), but we'll hope for (and book to get) a low floor next time).

Again, I guess it's all about perspective.

I've stayed on the 3rd and 5th floors. I think the 3rd floor rooms are more "intimate" viewing spaces, but the 5th floor rooms are more expansive viewing spaces. I liked them both (which is what's nice about AKV....we can request by whichever "mood" strikes us once Kidani opens) for different reasons.

[pilferk]

I agree crisi. Our first stay at AKL was in a Deluxe room. We had some great animal viewing from our room and at the time thought it was wonderful. In subsequent stays, we were on the 3rd floor and most recently the 2nd floor and WOW! the view from the second floor puts you at eye level with the giraffes -- incredible!

So for us the choice between Jambo House and Kidani will come down to whether we want to try for a room closer to the animals or a room closer to Boma, my DH's other favorite thing about AKL.

We'll choose Kidani every time it's available. The new water play area, and the "extra" bathroom make it more appealing to our large (and relatively young) brood.

[pilferk]

I just wanted to thank everyone here in this thread for all of the helpful thoughts. I appreciate all of them and they all helped in one way or another.

We have decided not to add on AKV. We are quite happy owning at BCV. I'll try for a 7 month ressie at AKV and we'll keep AKV on the back burner for now.

After trying and not liking SSR and BWV we are a little hesitant to buy a resort before we try it.

Thanks again everyone.



Mike

That's a great idea...try before you buy. It's not like AKV is going anywhere for the next year or 3, at least.

Give it a try, and they decide.

[poohmomof5]

We stayed in one of those Deluxe rooms - they really are the worst rooms in the hotel. The whole point of staying out at AKL for us was to watch the animals - and five floors up is as far away as you can get from the gazelles and the giraffes. It was a nice room, it was just the wrong location - and having paid more for the worst view, we weren't very satisfied. I suspect that is a big issue with those family suites.

Course, those are the Jambo rooms they are turning over to DVC - so the Jambo rooms won't have a lot of appeal for us - been there, done that, and we'd rather have a smaller room closer to the animals.

Loved the resort though....even with the bad view watching the animals was really special. We'll go back (and may book VAK), but we'll hope for (and book to get) a low floor next time).

Hi!

Have you stayed in other lower level rooms at AKL? We stayed in a 5th floor deluxe room and we really enjoyed the views! I thought it was neat to be higher up so we could see more of the Savannah. So my question is if you have stayed on lower and higher floors, what the difference is? I loved that resort and can't wait to go "home" in September, so I will have to be on the fifth floor, but for future visits once the new building is open, I wonder what will be more preferable! (Boy 2009 seems so far away!)

Thanks!

Poohmom :hippie:

[DVC Grammy]

We stayed in one of those Deluxe rooms - they really are the worst rooms in the hotel. The whole point of staying out at AKL for us was to watch the animals - and five floors up is as far away as you can get from the gazelles and the giraffes. It was a nice room, it was just the wrong location - and having paid more for the worst view, we weren't very satisfied. I suspect that is a big issue with those family suites.

Course, those are the Jambo rooms they are turning over to DVC - so the Jambo rooms won't have a lot of appeal for us - been there, done that, and we'd rather have a smaller room closer to the animals.

Loved the resort though....even with the bad view watching the animals was really special. We'll go back (and may book VAK), but we'll hope for (and book to get) a low floor next time).

I'm pretty sure that my DH will request a higher floor. As soon as we added on at AKV, the first thing he said was "Wow, now we need to get better binoculars to see all those animals." (WE?) :lmao:

[poohmomof5]

That's a great idea...try before you buy. It's not like AKV is going anywhere for the next year or 3, at least.

Give it a try, and they decide.


Hello,

This brings me to a question, how long does it typically take a resort to sell out? I think I read recently that Saratoga Springs was about 80% sold out, how long has it been for sale? Which also has me wondering how much of AKV will be sold before it is opened?

Oh, and I totally agree too, since you have some time, give it a try before you buy. We had very often considered giving SSR a try because we knew we wanted to buy into DVC, but we didn't know much about SSR, but when AKV was announced, we knew we loved it because we had stayed there, and decided that was our calling. Do keep in mind that if you try AKV soon, you will be in Jambo House, so not exactly what most of AKV will be, but it is a good way to see if you like the safari type theme!

Good luck!

Poohmom :hippie:

[LisaS]

We'll choose Kidani every time it's available. The new water play area, and the "extra" bathroom make it more appealing to our large (and relatively young) brood.I think that water play area will be great fun! I'm looking forward to trying Kidani Village, too. But I also have a great fondness for the Lodge. Maybe it's because it's where we stayed on our very first trip to WDW (and several subsequent trips), but I just love the atmosphere in the Lodge. I expect I will develop the same feeling about Kidani Village. And I won't mind walking to Boma, even from the far end of Kidani if that's where we happen to be. I've always felt I needed a good long walk after eating at Boma! So I believe I'll be happy in either building. Our one regret in joining DVC back in 2005 was giving up our stays at AKL. I'm just happy to have that option back again!

[pilferk]

I think that water play area will be great fun! I'm looking forward to trying Kidani Village, too. But I also have a great fondness for the Lodge. Maybe it's because it's where we stayed on our very first trip to WDW (and several subsequent trips), but I just love the atmosphere in the Lodge. I expect I will develop the same feeling about Kidani Village. And I won't mind walking to Boma, even from the far end of Kidani if that's where we happen to be. I've always felt I needed a good long walk after eating at Boma! So I believe I'll be happy in either building. Our one regret in joining DVC back in 2005 was giving up our stays at AKL. I'm just happy to have that option back again!

We really have a fondness for the lodge, too....and I"m sure we'll take many a walk over to eat at Boma's, or just check out the art exhibits (or just to get a whiff of that amazing smell you get when walking in the lobby). But from a pure amenities standpoint, at least til the kids are older, Kidani seems like it'll be a bit of a better fit. Now, once the kids are in their tweens/teens? We'll have to see.....the call of having Jiko's right downstairs is pretty compelling....I'm just not sure it's more compelling than having the extra bathroom with 2 tween/teen girls. :)

:)

[jarestel]

We have decided not to add on AKV. We are quite happy owning at BCV. I'll try for a 7 month ressie at AKV and we'll keep AKV on the back burner for now.

After trying and not liking SSR and BWV we are a little hesitant to buy a resort before we try it.
Mike

I think that's a good idea. If you're not completely comfortable with AKV, you're doing the right thing. AKV will always be available if you change your mind.

[william4192]

This information has been very helpful.