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taraprather
05-25-2007, 12:03 PM
This is not disney related but I need someone help me help my husband get through this...
My son is 8 years old. My DH and I have been together since he was 15 months. My ds's real father stopped coming around when he was 2. Well my husband has played the daddy role all these years. My son calls him daddy but he remembers his "father". Well I get a phone call yesterday from his "father". First time I've heard from him in 6 years! We had a long conversation.
Let's back up the past few months.....my son has recently started asking about his father...a lot lately. He cries for him, but not in front of my husband.
So when I get this call, he asks to talk to his son, and I allow it. You should have seen my sons face just light up when I told him who was on the phone. He was jumping up and down with this HUGE smile.
After we hung up the phone I called my husband and told him about this. He was FURIOUS! I can't get him to understand that this is what our son wants and that he will still always be considered his "daddy". He slept on the couch last night and isn't speaking to me. I know he's overreacting, but I'm sure he's terribly hurt by this to. I'm suppose to meet with my sons father today. I told my husband I wanted him to be there to, but he declined in a not so nice way. I don't know what to say to him to see why I am allowing him back in his life. I've said everything I could think of. I am doing this for my sons happiness and no one elses. My son woke me up 3 times last night talking about how excited he was to see his father. It just makes my year to see him this happy. But yet, me and my husband aren't doing so well because of it. I don't want any negative feedback, I'm already stressed and down enough already of this. But if you have any advice or positive feedback, I would appreciate it!

PlaneJoy1
05-25-2007, 12:15 PM
I completely understand where you are coming from - however you need to take a time out and look at from your DH's point of view. He's poured his life and support into making your son - his son. I assume that he has treated him no differently than if he really was.

If it were me, I would not have let my child talk to his long gone father on the phone before first having a conversation with my DH that father has now called. I personally think you owe him an apology for not informing him first and considering his feelings in all of this.

I understand your son has wanted to see his father and you want to give that to him. If my DD's father would call right now - I would have first made a meeting of just he, I, and my DH before putting him back into DD's life. I would want to understand why, after this many years, he's suddenly appearing and what he plans to do from here on out.

Perhaps your DH thinks he'll show up for a couple of months and then be gone again. Then how is your son going to feel????

I realize what's done is done - but be careful in this. Most marriage vows include "love, honor and cherish" - I don't think you've honored your DH in this right now. C


I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying all of this. But I've thought long and hard on the day that my DD will want to see her bio father (not that she hasn't already asked) or if he ever calls what the next steps will be.

Makdyn
05-25-2007, 12:16 PM
:grouphug:

No adivce but I am sure I will be in the situation at one point in my life as my girls father left when I told him that I was pregnant with dd #2. Unless his father is bad news then I see nothing wrong with what you are doing. you want your son to have a relationship with his real father. Maybe he has realize what he is missing out on and trying to make up for it. I would make sure everything is on your terms at the beginning of this. So you can see that he has change and want to be their for your son. :grouphug:

Adi12982
05-25-2007, 12:17 PM
Even though your ex has not been in your lives for the last 6 years, he still has legal rights to see your son. I am sure it will be hard for your husband - but your son and his father have the right to see each other. I think time may help him see things more clearly, but if not just be patient and try to talk to him. Good luck.

Kimmumum
05-25-2007, 12:18 PM
I don't have any advice other than be sure that his "father" is going to stay in his life before your son invests too much. You don't want him to get hurt all over again. Is you son going to the meeting? I think I would talk to your ex first and find out his intentions with out your son present.

Give your hubby time. He is hurt and has a right. Hopefully he will come around. He doesn't want to be replaced as the dad that he has been for 6 1/2 years. You can't blame him.

:grouphug: Hugs to your family. I hope your ex steps up and acts like the father your son wants (I said want because it sounds like he has the dad he needs already:goodvibes )

shoegirl1020
05-25-2007, 12:19 PM
I'm pretty familiar with your situtation. My older two children have not seen their bio dad in almost 5 years. I remarried (been with 2nd husband since ds was just 6 months old). My kids call him dad, but also know that bio dad is out there. I personally will not let bio dad have anything to do with my kids after everything he did to them. He was constantly in and out of their lives from the very beginning and it may have affected them. Actually I'm sure it did.

In any event, have you specifically asked your husband WHY he's so angry? Is he afraid that ds will "love" bio dad more? Or he is just concerned because bio dad hasn't been around for soo long and he's afraid that ds will be hurt again and he'll be left to pick up the pieces?

I know you didn't want any negative comments and didn't ask for advice in regards to letting/not letting ds see the dad, but think long and hard about the consquences of the dad disappearing again.

ilovejack02
05-25-2007, 12:21 PM
You all need to get to counseling if this continues. Your Dh is hurt but he has to understand that your son also needs to know the man that helped create him. Its just like children that are adopted feeling the need to know the people that gave them up even after being raised by wonderful parents. It has nothing to do with him and your son getting to know his bio father will not change how much he loves his Daddy. You can not keep the bio father away from his child( unless is a danger or starts popping in and out then by all means) If you try to do it, just for the sake of your DH your child will eventually resent the both of you and could even hate you for it.
You must do what is right for your DS, find out what the bio dad's intentions are and go from there. You may need to think about counseling for your DS if bio dad starts dropping in and out or decides to drop out of site again.
I have been a stepmom for about13 yrs and have seen first hand how upsetting it can be for parents to do this. The kids always blame themsleves. Its alot to think about for sure.

Savin4Disney
05-25-2007, 12:25 PM
As a single mom here. I really think you were wrong. You jumped before you thought of others feelings. Your DH has loved this child like his own, he has raised and supported him. Then suddenly bio dad comes knocking and you jump. You did not even talk to your DH about it, telling him after the fact. :confused3

You need to ask where the heck bio dad has been. Why did not feel it was important to stay in his son's life, how long is he going to stick around for?

I ask all those questions because I have been down that road. My son is now 15 and can make up his own mind about his Dad but your son is young yet. I refuse to let my ex break my son's heart. He did it once and all contact was shut off.

I hope your DH comes around but I would be a tad mad right now too. I know that is not what you want to hear but you have to think of your son's feelings and what bio dad is up to and then talk to your DH.

teresajoy
05-25-2007, 12:33 PM
I personally think you did the right thing, and I applaud you for it. It would have been easier for you to just let his "father" have it, and use your son as something to withhold from him just to get back at him. But, you put your son first, which is what a parent is suppose to do, and you let him talk to his dad. Will his "father" hurt him again, maybe, but at least your son will know that it wasn't your fault.

I also understand how your husband is upset right now, but I think if he really thinks about this from your son's perspective, he will come around.

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Hugs for you all.

mermaidwannabe
05-25-2007, 12:35 PM
:hug: That's a really tough situation. I can see how you would've wanted to make your child happy and maybe just reacted, but I can understand why your DH is hurt/angry. I also think you should apologize and then explain how you felt, etc. Communicate. I really hope the bio father has good intentions of maintaining a relationship now that the door has been opened and hope he wasn't just feeling melancholy one day. I would also recommend being very straightforward with him to see if he plans on being apart of the child's life or if he's just going to call every few years.

java
05-25-2007, 12:41 PM
A big :grouphug:
I think you acted without thinking. You were caught off guard and didn't really have the time to think. You only want what is best for your son. And that is wonderful. But what you think is best for your son is not what your DH thinks is best for HIS son right now. He was not treated as a 50% part in this and I think that is why he is hurt.
What is the rush all of a sudden from the birth father? Pops into town contact and wants to get together? While I think it is great that you feel comfortable enough to bring your son back into that- don't let him walk all over him again.
I so feel for your son. How excited he must be. Good luck and remember who has been the Father for these past 7 years- the one that actually stepped up to someone else's responsiblity and took it on like a MAN.

thompson princesses
05-25-2007, 12:47 PM
Some great advice from our fellow "disers"! Your dh may also be insecure that your ex is back in the picture and may be afraid of losing you too! Try to reassure him that it isn't going to happen. Good luck! :hug:

buzz2400
05-25-2007, 12:48 PM
I have raised my son by myself since he was one. His father "disappeared" for many, many years even though he was in the next town over. I never bad mouthed him in front of my son. I only said no to one visitation when his father decided to finally marry his girlfriend (who actually broke up the marriage). Through many counseling sessions, I was told he is his father and don't ever deny visitation because in the end, it can come back and bite you in the ___. So now by son is 15 and has decided within the past couple years that he does not ever want to see his father again. Why am I telling you this, first even though your husband has been a real father to your son, he is not the biological father. That can never be replaced. And that goes for a mother too. Kids see things very differently and become affected differently than adults. In the end your son will most likely always consider your husband his dad but he has to find out himself. So do I think you are wrong in not consulting him first, no. Do I think you should let the visitations occur, yes. But keep a watchful eye on your son. My son has some very bad anger management problems because of what his father did. Please tell your husband to still be supportive of your son. He is going to need it (since the bio father will probably disappear within a year).

taraprather
05-25-2007, 12:53 PM
Yes, I definitely didn't have time to think and I just reacted. As far as the meeting goes today, it will just be me and him, and he knows this.
I've thought about what all of you have said. I've thought about him coming and going and things like that, and trust me, it scares the living **** out of me!!! But hopefully with the meeting today we can get some ground rules set. He didn't really give me a reason on the phone on why he's been gone so long. At first he tried saying "well I tried to see him and you wouldn't let me." I set him straight real fast there. I NEVER stopped my son from seeing his father...ever!
I have apologized to my husband over and over and over again. I've emailed him like every hour today apologizing and telling how much me and his son love him!!! (he reads his email at work and won't accept my calls).
We have a softball game tonight. It's not a tourny or anything, just for fun. I know he will go right after work without coming home because he brought all his softball stuff with him. Should I show up to the game? (I play too) or should I let him have his space? I hate being in this situation and I knew one day it would happen. I know I screwed up by talking to his father for over an hour and letting him talk to TJ. I was just so confused/excited....very mixed emotions/feelings, I was not thinking about anything except how happy my son will be to know his father was on the phone. And boy was he happy!

mello
05-25-2007, 12:53 PM
Oh man, I SO feel for you. You want to see your son happy, but at the same time you don't want your dh to be hurt either. You must feel so in the middle, and this happened so suddenly. I've been there done that, but with my dh. He grew up as your son did, and the last time we had contact with his biological father was about 20 years ago, shortly after we were married. Of course every situation is different, but I'd like to offer you a word of caution. Your ds could wind up more hurt by this than happy in the long run, if the pattern of no contact for months/years and then sudden short contact continues (and it likely will). My dh once was in the position of your son, so I know this. Absentee dads don't tend to change. They just feel guilty or something every now and then, and then seek contact. They'll usually give gifts or money (to assuage their guilt) and then disappear again, leaving the child wondering what he did to alienate his father once again. My dh is 44 years old and hasn't seen his biological father for 20 years, but the wounds are still there. We've actually dealt with this in counseling. I know this sounds drastic, but I would not go to that meeting, and I would make sure your son knows that his "real father" is the one who has supported him and taken care of him all these years; the one who stands second most (after your son) to be hurt by all of this. Hugs to you all, and I wish you the best in getting through this.

taraprather
05-25-2007, 12:55 PM
Some great advice from our fellow "disers"! Your dh may also be insecure that your ex is back in the picture and may be afraid of losing you too! Try to reassure him that it isn't going to happen. Good luck! :hug:


I thought about this too. I told him that he has a girlfriend and they have a 2 year old son together. Maybe this is the reason he is coming back around because he's realizing all that he has missed.

ilovejack02
05-25-2007, 01:06 PM
Yes, I definitely didn't have time to think and I just reacted. As far as the meeting goes today, it will just be me and him, and he knows this.
I've thought about what all of you have said. I've thought about him coming and going and things like that, and trust me, it scares the living **** out of me!!! But hopefully with the meeting today we can get some ground rules set. He didn't really give me a reason on the phone on why he's been gone so long. At first he tried saying "well I tried to see him and you wouldn't let me." I set him straight real fast there. I NEVER stopped my son from seeing his father...ever!
I have apologized to my husband over and over and over again. I've emailed him like every hour today apologizing and telling how much me and his son love him!!! (he reads his email at work and won't accept my calls).
We have a softball game tonight. It's not a tourny or anything, just for fun. I know he will go right after work without coming home because he brought all his softball stuff with him. Should I show up to the game? (I play too) or should I let him have his space? I hate being in this situation and I knew one day it would happen. I know I screwed up by talking to his father for over an hour and letting him talk to TJ. I was just so confused/excited....very mixed emotions/feelings, I was not thinking about anything except how happy my son will be to know his father was on the phone. And boy was he happy!

YOU DID NOT SCREW UP BY TALKING TO DS's bio father... It is your job!!! Now letting DS talk to him, maybe you did and maybe you didnt who really knows, we all are just giving our opinions. Yes your DH is hurt, which has turned into anger, but like I said its not for him to say if DS can have a relationship with his father or not even though he does need to be involved in all future decisions on what happens he is still going to let it happen. Hopefully he will get past this, Its not like a think he doesnt have a right to be upset, but he also needs to be supporting you too. Just think about this, you have had your own little tiny family for 6 yrs and now you might have to share DS with another family. UGHH i can imagine that is upsetting for you too. Im sure there are lots of things going through your mind and the last thing that needs to happen is your DH feeling threatened and shutting down on you. Let him be angry and give him space, i might would stay home tonight. I also would be sure and get with DH and discuss that you cant let this come between the two of you because i can guarantee that DS will blame himself for that too!!!! Dont let DS know that this has upset his dad and now he is mad at you. Good luck!!

GOOFY4DONALD
05-25-2007, 01:08 PM
I have raised my son by myself since he was one. His father "disappeared" for many, many years even though he was in the next town over. I never bad mouthed him in front of my son. I only said no to one visitation when his father decided to finally marry his girlfriend (who actually broke up the marriage). Through many counseling sessions, I was told he is his father and don't ever deny visitation because in the end, it can come back and bite you in the ___. So now by son is 15 and has decided within the past couple years that he does not ever want to see his father again. Why am I telling you this, first even though your husband has been a real father to your son, he is not the biological father. That can never be replaced. And that goes for a mother too. Kids see things very differently and become affected differently than adults. In the end your son will most likely always consider your husband his dad but he has to find out himself. So do I think you are wrong in not consulting him first, no. Do I think you should let the visitations occur, yes. But keep a watchful eye on your son. My son has some very bad anger management problems because of what his father did. Please tell your husband to still be supportive of your son. He is going to need it (since the bio father will probably disappear within a year).
This is the post that I think is so important. I am in somewhat of a similar situation. My ex stepped out of my DD life for about 5 years. My DH raised her as his own. BUT she never called him dad because he is not. He helps with every aspect of raising her but, as hard as this is for him, must step back when her dad makes his infrequest appearances. Her dad does not pay any CS and I do not work so my DH supports her financially 100%. I know that he is upset at times and we do have arguements over this. I think that the most imporant thing is that you must do what is right for your child...not you and not your husband...and this is sometimes very hard. You need to let your son see what your ex is for himself...as hard as it may be. If you just protect him from all the bad things he will resent you for keeping dad away.

Toby'sFriend
05-25-2007, 01:09 PM
I'm just not sure what to say -
you don't want any "negative feedback."

okkkkkkkk

But what you did was a major family decision that you just made without even thinking for one second of your husband's thoughts or feelings on the matter.
OF COURSE he is furious. He has stepped in to be a Father for this boy for nearly 7 years now, and you just slapped him in the face with a big ol' "Hey, we all know you're just the Pretend Daddy."

Almost anybody I know would be pissed beyond belief to be treated like that.

You are headed into very turbulent waters here, with your son and your husband.

ilovejack02
05-25-2007, 01:11 PM
Oh man, I SO feel for you. You want to see your son happy, but at the same time you don't want your dh to be hurt either. You must feel so in the middle, and this happened so suddenly. I've been there done that, but with my dh. He grew up as your son did, and the last time we had contact with his biological father was about 20 years ago, shortly after we were married. Of course every situation is different, but I'd like to offer you a word of caution. Your ds could wind up more hurt by this than happy in the long run, if the pattern of no contact for months/years and then sudden short contact continues (and it likely will). My dh once was in the position of your son, so I know this. Absentee dads don't tend to change. They just feel guilty or something every now and then, and then seek contact. They'll usually give gifts or money (to assuage their guilt) and then disappear again, leaving the child wondering what he did to alienate his father once again. My dh is 44 years old and hasn't seen his biological father for 20 years, but the wounds are still there. We've actually dealt with this in counseling. I know this sounds drastic, but I would not go to that meeting, and I would make sure your son knows that his "real father" is the one who has supported him and taken care of him all these years; the one who stands second most (after your son) to be hurt by all of this. Hugs to you all, and I wish you the best in getting through this.

I get what you are saying, but I look at my DSS's half brother , who has NEVER met his father ( he is a horrible person, and dangerous) THe child is 14 and still wants to get to know him and vows as soon as he is old enough to visit him which we are all freaked about but he is going to have to learn on his own. He is just as messed up and angry by NOT knowing him. Its a catch 22 situation, the child will grow up angry and resentful at mom and dad and eventually find his father with or with out the help of his real mom and dad or bio dad might break his heart by popping in and out and he will be upset with that. I think counseling will be a big help with this and it may be something that the bio dad needs to get in on too, IF he wants to be a part of this kid's life.

lillygator
05-25-2007, 01:13 PM
wow, that's a tough one although I do think you should have consulted your DH first. No matter what you had decided upon including him would probably have helped.

As far as the game...I would go, you have a responsibilty to the team - will they be short and forfeit if you don't show? Play with one less player and not have an extra hitter?

Cruz Family
05-25-2007, 01:14 PM
This is a subject very close to my heart. Growing up I was rasied mostly by my grandparents, I never knew my dad and my mother was in and out of my life (long story). I worshiped the ground she walked on, this is very common because many times the more disfuctional the relationship the stronger the emotional bond. Over the years I had many converstions with my grandparents and they wished they had not enouraged the relationship between me and my mother as much as they did (I agree 100%). This was not a healthy relationship, as is the one between your son and his "father". You have to remember at this point he really has NO relationship with him, it is more in his own mind (and possibly yours), then it is a reality.
He is in a home with two loving PARENTS and that should be the foundation on which he should grow. If over time his "father" proves he is stable and committed to a real and healthy relationship with his son then I would encourage it.
Best of luck and remeber the right thing to do is never the easiest.

4greatboys
05-25-2007, 01:20 PM
Im sure it has to be hard for your dh after all this time having the boys bio dad swoop back in. He probably doesnt realize the each year as the boy grows up he is going to see who fed him, clothed him, cared for him, had fun with him and loved him. The boy will know who his real father is and its the one who has been there all along for him, not the one who just pops in and out when he feels like it.
But to not let the boy see his bio dad would just be a huge disservice to the boy. He needs to see him and hopefully his bio dad will show the boy he cares about him and has not forgotten him.

Just reassure your dh its in your sons best intererst and after all these years of being a good father to him he isnt going to be replaced.

Tissa
05-25-2007, 01:23 PM
I would not show up at dh's softball game if you have not talked to him yet. He obviously needs time to think.

I'm sorry that your ex put you in this situation at all. My kids dad hasn't seen them in 3 years although he lives in the same town. He did call and leave a message around Christmas to speak to the boys but I did not return the call and he never tried to call back. It would just break my oldest son's heart because I know his dad would promise to visit and then never show up.

Your dh will just have to get over his hurt. He deserves to be upset right now but will have to realize that you were doing what you thought was best for your son.

Good Luck!

DisneyAprilFool
05-25-2007, 01:49 PM
I can just reiterate- please, before making any further decisions, get DH on board.

Unless there is a custody arrangement, you cannot be FORCED to go see your son's father either. It should not be too difficult for him to understand that you are in a marriage, UNITED with your partner, and therefore, it may take a few days before you can 'work things out' with this ex who has suddenly popped back into your life.

You owe your loyalty to your husband and your son- not your son's father. IF you choose to do whatever your son's father wants, without first consulting your husband and allowing him time to process everything, you are going to seriously damage your relationship with your husband- but even worse, you risk endangering your son's relationship with his stepdaddy.

Also, you said your son had been crying about his father- did you ever tell your husband this was going on? If not, you really need to step back, don't make any decisions TODAY, and have a heart-to-heart with your husband before going any further.

Good luck.

Chicago526
05-25-2007, 01:49 PM
Yikes! What a situation! :hug:

Well, while it would have been better to talk to your DH first, you didn't. I can understand, this was out-of-the-blue and you didnt' have time to think, you just reacted. It happens, no one is perfect.

So, what do you do now? Well, you know your DH the best, of course, but I find that most men just need to cool off and think about things for a while, and then usually they'll come around. He will never be thrilled with the idea, of course, and no one should expect him to be. Anyway, back off your DH for a day or two, and then bring it up (if he doesn't do it before then) and see how he's feeling.

I too am concerend your ex will just disapear again, but legally I think you have to let your ex see him. Even if there isn't a legal vistiation/custody order in place, all your ex would have to do is see a lawyer and then a judge, and he'll have one. Better to just cooperate in the first place.

Just curious, but does your ex pay child support? He should be, and if not that might give you some leverage if your ex becomes unreasonable about visits.

Joel110
05-25-2007, 01:50 PM
I have apologized to my husband over and over and over again. I've emailed him like every hour today apologizing and telling how much me and his son love him!!! (he reads his email at work and won't accept my calls).

How tough for all of you. I agree that he has a right to be PO'd about how it was handled (not being discussed with him first) and PO'd at the biological father for now wanting back in after 6 years. I'm also sure he's also really hurt after being your DS's father for 6 years and DS is showing how excited he is to see his biolgical.

Hopefully, he'll at least understand that it comes down to what's best for DS. If that means seeing his biological, then DH has no right to deny it or really be angry at you or DS for wanting it. It's an unfortunate reality of what he accepted when he married you and your DS. DS didn't choose this situation, so maybe pointing out from DS's perspective that DS didn't decide to separate from his biological father, his biological father and you made those choices, but the best you can do for DS is offer him the opportunity to have a relationship with his biological father. Also, reinforce that you aren't doing this for the biological father, you're doing it for your son.

Best wishes.

taraprather
05-25-2007, 01:57 PM
Yes, he has been paying support every week. I think it will be a good idea if I wait to meet him. At least a few days, that way my husband can have time to cool down. My ds bio-father hasn't called me yet to set up a time but when he does, he'll have to understand why I'm waiting. I don't want my husband divoricing me over this. I understand why he''s angry with me but I wish he would understand that this is being done for my son

Zoemakes5
05-25-2007, 02:02 PM
I agree with PP. My DH gets mad if I make any relatively important decision without him. Yours was a BIG one. And, by not talking with him about it beforehand, even if you ended up disagreeing with him, sent a pretty negative message to him, I'd think. It says that even though he is "the daddy" and has been for years and by your side and with your support, that you don't really think of him as an equal partner when it comes to your son. He may have had alot of issues with bio father coming into the picture, he may have had none. He may have been the voice of reason, made suggestions on ways to make it less traumatic for your for the process, slow you down so you could really interpret the situation from a different perspective (like drugs/jail other problems) that you may not have thought. But, you took that away from him, and even though you recognize that this could hurt him, I sounds from your post that you think it's the DS and bio father that hurts, and I think it's probably much more. Did you ever talk about what you would do if/when bio dad ever showed up?
Now, I'm not saying you weren't well intentioned or that you acted instinctively, or that you're evil or anything. But, I wanted you to think about this from another perspective.
How to make it better? I'd sit down with DH and start the conversation with "I messed up big time and I'm sorry." Tell him some of the stuff that you've been withholding from him (I'm assuming you withheld to save DH's feelings?) and why, explain that you just acted instinctively based on what was going on, that DS was sitting there, and you just allowed it. You didn't think, not really, and you have had time to think about it and you just feel terrible. Tell him you'd really like to talk about this with him and figure out what to do from here as a couple and as parents. In the discussion, one thing to consider is that as much as it's a potential mess for DS, DH and you, bio-dad does have legal rights to see his son, unless those were ever specifically revoked.
Big hugs, I can only imagine how hard this is for all of you!

ilovejack02
05-25-2007, 02:12 PM
Yes, he has been paying support every week. I think it will be a good idea if I wait to meet him. At least a few days, that way my husband can have time to cool down. My ds bio-father hasn't called me yet to set up a time but when he does, he'll have to understand why I'm waiting. I don't want my husband divoricing me over this. I understand why he''s angry with me but I wish he would understand that this is being done for my son

I think that is a good idea. You can give DH some time to adjust and you can give ex more time to think about if he really really wants to be in DS's life. This prob should have been discussed long ago... note to everyone out there in this situation. You need to have a sit down talk and go over what ifs. If DH doesnt get on board soon, bring up going to counseling and even if he says no, you should go to learn how to deal with this situation correctly. I think we would all need help with that.

robinb
05-25-2007, 02:18 PM
Yes, he has been paying support every week. I think it will be a good idea if I wait to meet him. At least a few days, that way my husband can have time to cool down. My ds bio-father hasn't called me yet to set up a time but when he does, he'll have to understand why I'm waiting. I don't want my husband divoricing me over this. I understand why he''s angry with me but I wish he would understand that this is being done for my son
I think that's a good plan. You need to bring your hubby back into the decision process so he knows you are a team. Speaking of teams ... if there is someone to play your position I would skip the softball game and give your DH some space. I would also stop calling and emailing every hour on the hour. That kind of stuff would really piss me off and keep me angry instead of helping me calm down. Begging for forgiveness would also keep my anger going. He needs time to think and reflect and he can't do that if you're bugging him. Send one more email saying that you'll see him when he gets home and how you hope you can discuss things once your son is asleep.

{{hugs}} and good luck!

Toby'sFriend
05-25-2007, 02:21 PM
I think it will be a good idea if I wait to meet him. At least a few days, that way my husband can have time to cool down. My ds bio-father hasn't called me yet to set up a time but when he does, he'll have to understand why I'm waiting. I don't want my husband divoricing me over this. I understand why he''s angry with me but I wish he would understand that this is being done for my son

very solid plan.
Personally, I don't think you should go into that meeting with the bio-Father without your husband sitting right beside you.

Now onto the second issue of whether or not your son should see his bio-Father.

Yes, he should for a couple of reasons.

#1. If you try to withhold visitation, he could very well end up taking you to court to force the matter. You don't want that.

#2. It's just the right thing to do. Your son is reaching the age where he is wondering what his biological Father is like, what happened, why doesn't his "Father" ever come around like all the other Fathers -- pretty heavy stuff for an 8year old to handle.

Unfortunately the previous posters are correct. All too often, these absentee parents get a burst of conscience and briefly pop back in for just long enough to totally devastate the kids all over again--- then they run away for another couple of years.

Hopefully this is one of the few cases where that won't happen. But if it does, you're going to need your husband around to help get your son over it.

Apologize to DH about a million more times and then start talking with him on how to handle it.

dameodie
05-25-2007, 02:24 PM
I don't have much advice to offer... just wanted to chime in because this is what I'm afraid is going to happen with my fiancee's girls' mother. She's in their lives right now half time - they have a 50-50 custody arrangement. However, her divorce from her current husband is final on Tuesday, and he's leaving her because she had an affair with a man in Belgium and is now pregnant by this guy. She wants to move to Belgium and bring the girls out there in the summer... which I just don't see happening, since my fiancee's lawyer said that the custody agreement could be worded so that she would have to pay all transportation costs, and she's said that she would need to come get them when the time came. Four round trip tickets to Europe every summer? If this guy was older and was a doctor or something, then maybe, but he's 20 years old and lives with his parents. Anyway, my point is my gut says that she's writing herself out of the picture, even if she doesn't believe it now.

The only advice I can give is to try and keep your son's relationship with his father as more of a special friend kind of relationship until he demonstrates some stability. He may be your son's father, but as of right now, he's certainly not one of his parents.

GOOFY4DONALD
05-25-2007, 02:30 PM
Yes, he has been paying support every week. I think it will be a good idea if I wait to meet him. At least a few days, that way my husband can have time to cool down. My ds bio-father hasn't called me yet to set up a time but when he does, he'll have to understand why I'm waiting. I don't want my husband divoricing me over this. I understand why he''s angry with me but I wish he would understand that this is being done for my son
This is a good idea to wait. Also when and if ex asks questions tell him you need to think about it and get back to him. This was advice from my lawyer. Agreeing to things your ex asks while you are on the phone with him, and he is possibly putting pressure on you, is never a good idea. On the second note I do not think that your DH would divorce you over this. He did marry you knowing you son came from somewhere. In the back of his mind he always knew that this guy could show up at anytime. I think he is more hurt than anything. He has acted as the dad to your son for so long and then some guy shows up with more power and rights than he has...it has to hurt.

Blondiex46
05-25-2007, 02:33 PM
I think you did the right thing. Your son knows who his father is and who his daddy is and if you would keep him from the father he would resent you when he got older. Your husband has to remember it isn't about him it is about the child. He knows he has a father and imagine how he felt knowing his father didn't want anything to do with him even though your husband "played daddy" to him. This doesn't have anything to do with your relationship with your husband or your husband's relationship with your son and hopefully your husband will keep treating your son the way he did before the "father' came back into the picture and honest will he stay, if so how long....

IMO he has no reason to be mad at you, honestly athough he was there for those years he is still your son and you have to make decisions based on what you think is best for him. Should you have discussed it with your husband first, well if that was possible I am sure you might have done that, but it didn't. I just hope that he doesn't disappoint your son cause my kids father used to tell him that he was coming to see him all the time and never showed up. After 9 years he decided he wanted to be in their lives and now when he calls they say "I am not talking to him, tell him to stop calling" I told him that if he really wants the relationship that he has to be persistent. Is he nope and they are ok with that. They are 13 now, know they have a father and know he wants nothing to do with them, and I am a single parent.

I wish you luck, it wasn't an easy decision and did what you thought was best for your son.

Maggimus
05-25-2007, 02:38 PM
I agree with PP that your DH has a right to be upset.

You (both yourself and DH) are the parents who has been around for years and years-- and remember you are dealing with a child. Parents equal the decision makers for the child. My Dh's father was around his entire childhood but only as a father and not as a 'dad'. I feel as though this type of communication should only be granted when the child is emotionally capable of dealing with the outcome-- which could end up being a loss of communication and can make a bad situation even worse. I know, personally, that my DH has become very emotionally scarred and it has not only effected his emotions, but also the entire person that he is. Its a day-to-day struggle.

I also wonder where "father" has been for the past few years? Shouldnt trust be built over time through phone communication with you and the ex before an actual meeting with the child is set up? It seems as though this one phone call has made things quite crazy in your life. I would worry about his sudden invested interest and possibly try and gain his trust (for your son) through phone conversations about "hows DS doing in school this week",etc (quite a few of those phone calls)-- before popping in and letting him take over DS's emotions.

I applaud the fact that you care so much for your son-- because everyone needs good solid parents. Just give it quite a bit of thought before you get DS involved.... too much, too early might not be such a good idea.

This is just my opinion-- good luck...:hug:

ceecee
05-25-2007, 03:19 PM
I would not go to the game, especially if your DH hasn't taken any of your calls. He needs more time. You probably shouldn't have let your DS speak with his bio father until AFTER you told your DH and discussed it with him, he feels left out and like everything he's done for the last 7 years is nothing!
I would discuss anything with him before agreeing to meet the ex.
Remember a REAL dad is the one who is there day after day, supporting your DS, helping him learn and being there when he's sick. A real dad doesn't disappear for 6 years and show up one day likes he's never been away. I would have been a lot more cautious than you were. Lots of questions are unanswered. Have you told your DS a lot about him? I just wonder why he feels like something has been missing if your DH has been with you since he was 15 mos. old.

taraprather
05-25-2007, 04:49 PM
My son knew and remembered his father up until he was 2 1/2. He still remembers the things they did, the nick-names his father use to call him and things. I talked to my ex today and told him we'll have to hold off on the meeting and I explained why. He apologized for putting me in this situation and told me to call him when it's a good time for me. I called my husband again and he actually answered. I ask him if he wanted me to go to the softball game and he said do what you want, you're going to make your own decision anyways.He also said he don't want to hear the name Tony (my exs name). I told him he knew his bio-father when he married me. (my husband and I were together for a little over a year before Tony stopped coming around) I understand why he is so upset. I'm going to give him through the weekend to think about things and cool down, then I'm going to make him sit down and talk about it.

Maggimus
05-25-2007, 05:01 PM
My son knew and remembered his father up until he was 2 1/2. He still remembers the things they did, the nick-names his father use to call him and things. I talked to my ex today and told him we'll have to hold off on the meeting and I explained why. He apologized for putting me in this situation and told me to call him when it's a good time for me. I called my husband again and he actually answered. I ask him if he wanted me to go to the softball game and he said do what you want, you're going to make your own decision anyways.He also said he don't want to hear the name Tony (my exs name). I told him he knew his bio-father when he married me. (my husband and I were together for a little over a year before Tony stopped coming around) I understand why he is so upset. I'm going to give him through the weekend to think about things and cool down, then I'm going to make him sit down and talk about it.

Just remember that this is all happening really fast... I dont know if I'd put such a quick time limit on it (the weekend)--- its really hard when someone has been out of the picture for 6 years and to make a decision within a few days. Things have a way of working themselves out...

bellarella
05-25-2007, 05:39 PM
Yes, he has been paying support every week. I think it will be a good idea if I wait to meet him. At least a few days, that way my husband can have time to cool down. My ds bio-father hasn't called me yet to set up a time but when he does, he'll have to understand why I'm waiting. I don't want my husband divoricing me over this. I understand why he''s angry with me but I wish he would understand that this is being done for my son

Are you sure this is really being done for your son? I think it is a good idea for you to wait to see him *for* your son. Honestly, I can't imagine handing the phone to my child spontaneously to talk to a person who hasn't been in his life for 6 years. It seems horribly reckless to me. Have you been working with a counselor on how to deal with your DS's questions about his bio dad? While I would never recommend bad mouthing a parent in front of a child, it seems that a child who is crying about meeting a person they have never met (when where old enough to remember) might not be getting the answers they have been needing. If this has been something going on for awhile, I would have brought it up with your DH so you could have worked on the issue together. For this person to suddenly reappear, my first instinct would have been to put myself between my child and his bio father until everything was worked out, because the person who will suffer the most will be him. I'm not saying to deny the bio father access, but after 6 years, there is a reasonable expectation that he must jump through some hoops, among them meeting with you *and* your DH to make decisions as a group as to what is in the best interest of your DS. Just handing the phone of to your DS may have given him a great high, but not all highs are worth the price of the crash that can follow.

I would proceed with extreme caution here. I know you are saying that you are apologizing to your DH, but it sounds like (from what you have written) that it is because he is hurt, not so much because you think you did anything wrong. I'm guessing that your DH isn't just hurt for himself, but probably really mad that you made a major *parenting* decision with out him. Doing so not only undermined his feelings, but undercut his role as a parent, and likely -- the big one -- put your DS at risk for a major emotional fall. This shouldn't have been a decision for you to make on your own IMHO, and I think you may need to address that issue (whether you agree with that assessment or not) with your DH in your future conversations and let him say his piece. It may not be that he is just hurt, but he is disagreeing that you did what was best for your DS and as his parent, he deserves to be heard out on the issue and not just be dismissed as being mad because his feelings were hurt.

Good luck.

ilovejack02
05-25-2007, 05:42 PM
My son knew and remembered his father up until he was 2 1/2. He still remembers the things they did, the nick-names his father use to call him and things. I talked to my ex today and told him we'll have to hold off on the meeting and I explained why. He apologized for putting me in this situation and told me to call him when it's a good time for me. I called my husband again and he actually answered. I ask him if he wanted me to go to the softball game and he said do what you want, you're going to make your own decision anyways.He also said he don't want to hear the name Tony (my exs name). I told him he knew his bio-father when he married me. (my husband and I were together for a little over a year before Tony stopped coming around) I understand why he is so upset. I'm going to give him through the weekend to think about things and cool down, then I'm going to make him sit down and talk about it.
I think giving DH the weekend to chill a bit is a good idea, but if your ex is going to decide to be involved and proves that he will stay around and gains your trust again then DH is going to have to relax because if not he will alienate DS. Now deciding what to do about in ex in a week is prob not going to happen and that part should be taken slowly, but it is not acceptable for anyone to ignore a spouse and be openly hostile about anything for any long period of time.. i mean days , yes he is still within his right to be mad now though . Good luck, this is a tricky situation.

branv
05-25-2007, 06:02 PM
Well almost everything has been said that I would have said, so I'll just add that I got a huge red flag when you said that your ex first tried to claim that he tried to see his son but you stopped him. If it really is not true, this tells me that he hasn't really changed much from being a self-involved immature person. He clearly isn't taking responsibility without being forced to (i.e. you calling him on it) which troubles me, and also makes me wonder what he will tell your son when your son inevitably asks, "Why haven't you been around?" Will he blame you? Undermine you? It also strikes me that if he is still avoiding taking responsibility for his choices, then he's probably very selfish/self-indulgent and this visit is about fulfilling some need he has, not about truly caring for the needs of his son.

Just proceed very very carefully. I just don't see how you are going to get through any of this without counseling for you, your son and your DH. Too much mourning, confusion and anger is already taking place and this is with just the possibility of a meeting. Please consider seeing a family therapist, it would really help.

Maggimus
05-25-2007, 06:08 PM
Are you sure this is really being done for your son? I think it is a good idea for you to wait to see him *for* your son. Honestly, I can't imagine handing the phone to my child spontaneously to talk to a person who hasn't been in his life for 6 years. It seems horribly reckless to me. Have you been working with a counselor on how to deal with your DS's questions about his bio dad? While I would never recommend bad mouthing a parent in front of a child, it seems that a child who is crying about meeting a person they have never met (when where old enough to remember) might not be getting the answers they have been needing. If this has been something going on for awhile, I would have brought it up with your DH so you could have worked on the issue together. For this person to suddenly reappear, my first instinct would have been to put myself between my child and his bio father until everything was worked out, because the person who will suffer the most will be him. I'm not saying to deny the bio father access, but after 6 years, there is a reasonable expectation that he must jump through some hoops, among them meeting with you *and* your DH to make decisions as a group as to what is in the best interest of your DS. Just handing the phone of to your DS may have given him a great high, but not all highs are worth the price of the crash that can follow.

I would proceed with extreme caution here. I know you are saying that you are apologizing to your DH, but it sounds like (from what you have written) that it is because he is hurt, not so much because you think you did anything wrong. I'm guessing that your DH isn't just hurt for himself, but probably really mad that you made a major *parenting* decision with out him. Doing so not only undermined his feelings, but undercut his role as a parent, and likely -- the big one -- put your DS at risk for a major emotional fall. This shouldn't have been a decision for you to make on your own IMHO, and I think you may need to address that issue (whether you agree with that assessment or not) with your DH in your future conversations and let him say his piece. It may not be that he is just hurt, but he is disagreeing that you did what was best for your DS and as his parent, he deserves to be heard out on the issue and not just be dismissed as being mad because his feelings were hurt.

Good luck.

I think this is what I was trying to say-- you said it much better though.

Kickapoo Joie Juice
05-25-2007, 07:47 PM
My gut reaction is that your husband is hurt that you didn't consult with him on this VERY important decision that you made, and you may have made him feel completely invalid in your relationship and his relationship with your son.

I think you need to apologize profusely for making him feel unimportant, admit that you made a HUGE mistake, and seek counseling immediately.

Goofyzgurl
05-25-2007, 08:21 PM
Are you sure this is really being done for your son? I think it is a good idea for you to wait to see him *for* your son. Honestly, I can't imagine handing the phone to my child spontaneously to talk to a person who hasn't been in his life for 6 years. It seems horribly reckless to me. Have you been working with a counselor on how to deal with your DS's questions about his bio dad? While I would never recommend bad mouthing a parent in front of a child, it seems that a child who is crying about meeting a person they have never met (when where old enough to remember) might not be getting the answers they have been needing. If this has been something going on for awhile, I would have brought it up with your DH so you could have worked on the issue together. For this person to suddenly reappear, my first instinct would have been to put myself between my child and his bio father until everything was worked out, because the person who will suffer the most will be him. I'm not saying to deny the bio father access, but after 6 years, there is a reasonable expectation that he must jump through some hoops, among them meeting with you *and* your DH to make decisions as a group as to what is in the best interest of your DS. Just handing the phone of to your DS may have given him a great high, but not all highs are worth the price of the crash that can follow.

I would proceed with extreme caution here. I know you are saying that you are apologizing to your DH, but it sounds like (from what you have written) that it is because he is hurt, not so much because you think you did anything wrong. I'm guessing that your DH isn't just hurt for himself, but probably really mad that you made a major *parenting* decision with out him. Doing so not only undermined his feelings, but undercut his role as a parent, and likely -- the big one -- put your DS at risk for a major emotional fall. This shouldn't have been a decision for you to make on your own IMHO, and I think you may need to address that issue (whether you agree with that assessment or not) with your DH in your future conversations and let him say his piece. It may not be that he is just hurt, but he is disagreeing that you did what was best for your DS and as his parent, he deserves to be heard out on the issue and not just be dismissed as being mad because his feelings were hurt.

Good luck.

Very well said.

I think you made a major decision without dh, but if the bio-dad lets your son down, who is going to pick up the pieces? The father that he has known all of his life. Your dh "might" also feel that ds should meet his father one day, but I don't think you gave him a voice in that matter. Like any major decision I think you should discuss this and make a mutual decision since it is going to affect the ds' life and your marriage. Good luck.

2angelsinheaven
05-25-2007, 08:39 PM
Wow, I just wanted to send you some good thoughts that in the end everyone is happy and that all involved put your Son first. As someone who's father walked out on her I can't tell you how emotional I got just reading the first page of this thread. Hugs to you and your son, I hope it works out.

taraprather
05-25-2007, 08:41 PM
I think I'm going to call a counsoler first thing in the morning. My sister n law just called (she plays softball with us) and said they all decided not to play and they kicked back in a park and drink a few beers. Well, according to her, Charlie was extremly tipsy and he started talking about me. He was saying he was done with me (BTW Charlie is my hubby). My sister n law told him he's acting like I've cheated on him and that he's just angry. She also told him I understand my mistake and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to make it right. She said they all decided to go to a bar 30 minutes away. My hubby is driving! If he's already tipsy, he is going to get wasted (my hubby isn't a big drinker at all, but in this case he will). What do I do? My sister n law is going also and she said she'd call if he tried to drive home, but he's so freaking stubborn, he won't listen to anyone. I'm trying to stay calm about this entire thing, because I know he is speaking out of anger, but worrried to death about him driving home drunk. And I know cops will be out HEAVY tonight being a holiday weekend. I have both my kids and no sitter!!!!

DisneyAprilFool
05-25-2007, 08:44 PM
Tell your sis to notify the bartender that your hubby shouldn't be driving if he's drunk. I believe bartenders handle this type of thing all of the time?

It definitely sounds like ya'll will need some professional help at this point in time- his anger IS justified, but his reaction to his anger is not. If that makes sense.

**HUGS** This is going to be rough. It isn't fair- but it's life with an ex.

Maggimus
05-25-2007, 09:17 PM
I think I'm going to call a counsoler first thing in the morning. My sister n law just called (she plays softball with us) and said they all decided not to play and they kicked back in a park and drink a few beers. Well, according to her, Charlie was extremly tipsy and he started talking about me. He was saying he was done with me (BTW Charlie is my hubby). My sister n law told him he's acting like I've cheated on him and that he's just angry. She also told him I understand my mistake and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to make it right. She said they all decided to go to a bar 30 minutes away. My hubby is driving! If he's already tipsy, he is going to get wasted (my hubby isn't a big drinker at all, but in this case he will). What do I do? My sister n law is going also and she said she'd call if he tried to drive home, but he's so freaking stubborn, he won't listen to anyone. I'm trying to stay calm about this entire thing, because I know he is speaking out of anger, but worrried to death about him driving home drunk. And I know cops will be out HEAVY tonight being a holiday weekend. I have both my kids and no sitter!!!!

I would say that he probobly does feel as though he has been cheated on.... I hope things work out soon and you both can be more understanding of one another. I dont feel as though you are completely understanding where he is coming from-- and i know for certain he isnt of you either. Its time to meet in the middle and try and understand one another... the hard part is getting to the point that you can do so- I can tell hes pretty upset. Good Luck...

grlpwrd
05-25-2007, 09:27 PM
Yes, he has been paying support every week. I think it will be a good idea if I wait to meet him. At least a few days, that way my husband can have time to cool down. My ds bio-father hasn't called me yet to set up a time but when he does, he'll have to understand why I'm waiting. I don't want my husband divoricing me over this. I understand why he''s angry with me but I wish he would understand that this is being done for my son

You mean "our" son, right? Your current dh raised him like you said and I think he is within his right to feel upset.

After all these years your ex appears and wants to be so involved. This would make me very suspicious if it were me and I can see why your dh is angry.

I really hope it works out... :hug:

Hannathy
05-25-2007, 09:46 PM
I agree with the poster who said he has a right to be angry but the way he is reacting to the anger is juvenile.

What I wanted to say was tonight when he gets home he will either still be a very angry drunk or he will be a very remorseful drunk, the key word in here is drunk! He may say things tonight that he really doesn't mean so try not to dwell on what ever he says tonight. It may help if he gets it out of his system.

Good Luck I don't think you were wrong, especially after I heard he has been paying child support on time. IMO your DH is jealous and jealousy is a very hard emotion to deal with, it hurts. After all he's been there thru thick and thin and yet this guy prances in and your son is head over heels for him. And your DH is feeling like a pile of you know what. Give him space. Don't beat yourself up and don't put yourself down too much, just promise to include him next time and that you are sorry you didn't this time, but don't grovel.

lillygator
05-25-2007, 11:50 PM
I think I'm going to call a counsoler first thing in the morning. My sister n law just called (she plays softball with us) and said they all decided not to play and they kicked back in a park and drink a few beers. Well, according to her, Charlie was extremly tipsy and he started talking about me. He was saying he was done with me (BTW Charlie is my hubby). My sister n law told him he's acting like I've cheated on him and that he's just angry. She also told him I understand my mistake and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to make it right. She said they all decided to go to a bar 30 minutes away. My hubby is driving! If he's already tipsy, he is going to get wasted (my hubby isn't a big drinker at all, but in this case he will). What do I do? My sister n law is going also and she said she'd call if he tried to drive home, but he's so freaking stubborn, he won't listen to anyone. I'm trying to stay calm about this entire thing, because I know he is speaking out of anger, but worrried to death about him driving home drunk. And I know cops will be out HEAVY tonight being a holiday weekend. I have both my kids and no sitter!!!!


I hope he stays safe and makes it home ok.

I am wondering - with this kind of reaction - is he a bit insecure about maybe how you feel regarding your ex, maybe that he could lose you?:confused3

Ciao Mickey
05-26-2007, 12:28 AM
How well could a 2 year old remember someone? Have you been keeping his biological father's memory alive in your son's mind?

You said you had a long conversation with him. Didn't you feel guilty doing that behind your husband's back?

Sorry for being so tough with the questions but you need to step back and examine what's truly going on with you.

I know that if I took care of a child that's not mine, loved him, nutured him, supported him while his "real" father didn't want any part of him, and then the guy calls, and my wife wants to see him, without discussing it with me first, I would feel very hurt, angry and betrayed. And I would wonder WTH is going on?

You kicked your present husband to the curb as soon as this guy called. Are you sure you don't still harbor feelings for him and don't want to admit that to yourself?

Think of how your husband feels about your son's reactions to seeing his "bio" father. He's the one that's been there for him all of this time, and now this guy shows up and your son's excited to see him? Your husband probably feels very hurt right now.

Good luck and I hope you all work things out for your son's sake. But I don't think you should give this guy a free pass for being an absent father for 6 years either.

GOOFY4DONALD
05-26-2007, 01:39 AM
I agree with the poster who said he has a right to be angry but the way he is reacting to the anger is juvenile.

What I wanted to say was tonight when he gets home he will either still be a very angry drunk or he will be a very remorseful drunk, the key word in here is drunk! He may say things tonight that he really doesn't mean so try not to dwell on what ever he says tonight. It may help if he gets it out of his system.

Good Luck I don't think you were wrong, especially after I heard he has been paying child support on time. IMO your DH is jealous and jealousy is a very hard emotion to deal with, it hurts. After all he's been there thru thick and thin and yet this guy prances in and your son is head over heels for him. And your DH is feeling like a pile of you know what. Give him space. Don't beat yourself up and don't put yourself down too much, just promise to include him next time and that you are sorry you didn't this time, but don't grovel.Well said. I think that anyone that has been in a similar situation (with an absentee ex)knows that this is a very hard issue to deal with. No matter how long the ex is gone he is still that child's father. I see so many women that tell the child to call the new husband dad and think that it is all ok and that the ex is gone forever... but they never are. My DH has always been there for my daughter, since she was 13 months old (she is now almost 10). He is the closest thing to a father figure that she has. But that is what he is.... a father figure not her father. My DH gets upset when her dad waltzes in after he broke up with another girlfriend and sees DD for a bit until he gets another one; but he is there to pick up the pieces when she is upset. My DD knows the difference in the one she just calls dad and the one who acts like one.

ExPirateShopGirl
05-26-2007, 02:12 AM
Well... I may get flamed for this, but if it does you ANY good, then I'll happily take the flames.

You did blow it by putting your son on the phone. I understand you felt he would be excited, but all kids are when it's something new or novel. It doesn't mean it's in his best interests! You need to really be honest with yourself and think about where his 'memories' of his biological father originate. I raised 2 kids and I can tell you that unless you reiterate something that happened prior to 3 years, it's gone after they turn 4. I also understand that putting your son on the phone may have fed a fantasy you've harbored that one day his dad would return and everyone would get along happily and lovingly. Again, I understand all your knee-jerk reactions to his phone call and putting your son on the phone. It just wasn't in your son's best interest at the moment and it REALLY wasn't a decision that one parent makes without the other parent, namely your DH.

What happened when you put your son on the phone? You completely disregarded the input of your son's other parent, your DH. That in and of itself is incredibly disrespectful, and probably tells your DH that even though he's raised this boy as his own for years... the boy is still 'yours' and his opinion doesn't count.

Now, had this been the first time you failed to consult him when it comes to decisions about your son, I would be really surprised. My guess is this has happened before. Deep down in your mind, do you still consider yourself the only parent who counts when it comes to your son? Why would one event (as disrespectful as it was) cause your DH to say he's had enough? My guess is this is why he made the comment about you making decisions without consulting others (him.)

Now, don't beat yourself up for making the mistake. You know what happens. You do need to see a counselor, you and hubby. Then your son needs to see a counselor. You need to understand that the man you married was and is willing to be the provider and protector. He wanted to be part of the decision to ensure bio dad's motives are good. Every time you make a decision of this magnitude without him (especially when it concerns your son) you are basically telling him his opinion doesn't matter. You are telling him HE doesn't matter. It's pretty simple. That's why he's so angry. He's not scared you're going to go back to your ex, he's ******* as **** that you put your ex's desire to speak to his son over your husband's right to weigh in on what's in the best interest of your son.

Good luck. I know this can't be easy, but you really have to get it through your head that your hubby's opinion is just as important as yours. I am not telling you to forbid your child from seeing his bio father. I am telling you that decisions regarding your son should be made by BOTH you and hubby, especially in light of how he has loved and raised that boy as his own.

by the way... you need to determine what your ex's motives are for seeing his son. For all you know he just wants to see him once or twice. That would be cruel to get his hopes up for nothing.

I'm sorry I went all Dr Laura on you... but you really need to stop everything else and get your marriage back on track. I concur with those who suggest a counselor. Immediately.

Good luck. :goodvibes

hsmamato2
05-26-2007, 08:46 AM
I think that the most imporant thing is that you must do what is right for your child...not you and not your husband...and this is sometimes very hard. .

See,I respectfully disagree with this- NOTHING should be allowed to come between OP and her husband,their actual family. So if and when visits occur, it is the family that should be considered,not just one member.
Op's dh has every right to have input here,and it sounds like of course she knows that- yes, the child should see his father,under Moms terms, but every effort needs to be made to preserve the unity of the family,and stable home they have now.
I'm not a big believer in the errant parents 'rights' to drop in and out of a childs life- I grew up calling my stepfather "dad",and my bio-dad by his given name. Still do! And now,after many years,guess who gets to be the real Grampa?;)

lillygator
05-26-2007, 09:17 AM
OP - thoughts are with you today, hope DH made it home ok and you were able to talk with him.

swilshire
05-26-2007, 09:47 AM
I'm sure this will be hard on your husband, but he's just going to have to be an adult about it. I can imagine all the fears this could bring up. He may think you still have or rekindle feelings for your husband. He may feel that your son won't feel the same about him.

The child deserves a relationship with his biological Father and I'm glad your ex seems to want that. As long as you have no concerns about your ex being mentally or physically abusive to your son, you should do everything you can to enable it.

I haven't read the other responses yet, so this has probably already been suggested, but it wouldn't hurt to talk to a religious figure (pastor, priest) or counselor to work out some of your current husband's concerns.

I had to chuckle recently. My DH and I have been married 22 years. A dear friend of his found some old videos of DH and his ex-wife and was afraid to bring them out for fear that it would bother me. I might have a twinge or two, but I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over what he did more than 20 years (and another lifetime according to him) ago.

Reassure your husband that you love him. Maybe seek professional help if he's willing. But give that kid whatever he needs.

JMHO, of course.

Sheila

swilshire
05-26-2007, 09:54 AM
I was just so confused/excited....very mixed emotions/feelings, I was not thinking about anything except how happy my son will be to know his father was on the phone. And boy was he happy!


Oops. May have to change my answer after reading this comment. It raised a red flag even with me. Sounds like there really might be some feelings there for the ex that DH picked up on.

Sheila

kileybeth
05-26-2007, 12:22 PM
this thread just pulled me in and I read it all with mixed emotion.

6 years without contact, nearly the whole life of this child?

no 2 year old remembers unless the memories are reinforced and then only when adequately reinforced. who was keeping this memory alive? have you ever asked a family counselor how much information you should/shouldn't be giving your child?

and yes, I'm sure he was "excited" about a memory, a fantasy of who this guy is at best. he has no basis for actual real information. while you, the mom should have tons.

so he pays some money each month. so he gave a few chromosomes/genes and maybe the kiddo looks a a bit like him? have you considered what your DH has given to "your" son in comparison? and by calling him "your" son and not "our" son when you speak of your current family unit? what's up with that?

I guess I'd say you better not only apoligize but high tale it to a decent counselor to figure out why you are so ready/willing to risk a lifetime (b/c it has been virtually your sons lifetime) to set up something with this other person (biological donor) (sorry no way he is a DAD to this little guy).

and this guy has a 2 year old of his own? oh yeah, he's just thinking of what he gave up and after a bit, he'll get over it. It is hard to pay for something and not feel you have a say in it, but relationship? not there.

finally give your DH some space, lots of it, he has been betrayed and trust is a huge issue in any relationship. how will h etrust you in the future is what he is asking himself rigth now and why would he want to after putting himself out there for years for not only you but what he thought was "his son and their relationship".

sorry if this sounds harsh but maybe it will help you understand a tad bit of what your DH is feeling but is to upset to really talk about.

GOOFY4DONALD
05-26-2007, 12:44 PM
no 2 year old remembers unless the memories are reinforced and then only when adequately reinforced. who was keeping this memory alive? have you ever asked a family counselor how much information you should/shouldn't be giving your child?

and yes, I'm sure he was "excited" about a memory, a fantasy of who this guy is at best. he has no basis for actual real information. while you, the mom should have tons.

. Your post mentioned what I think most people do not understand. If your son has a 'fantasy' father he will be that. This fantasy father that your son will create in his mind would be the most wonderful father an imagination could create. If mom talks bad about the dad or keeps her son from the dad to try and protect him it will end up biting her in the b*tt. Dad will be this perfect image and mean old mom will be the one that kept him away. I have seen this too many times.

shortbun
05-26-2007, 02:36 PM
My nephew was adopted by my brother at 2 when his birth dad agreed to give up parental rights. He wasn't doing a very great job at showing up easily signed the papers. My brother knows he is Dad in every way. His son/my nephew has recently indicated a desire to remeet his birth dad. My brother is helping him arrange it. I think your family needs counseling. Your husband re-acted and now he needs to get his act together and be the mature man your son has grown to know and love as his father. Yeah, you could have taken 24 hours to think about the exposure and talked to him about it but in the end, your son wanted to see his birth dad and obviously the birth dad wanted to see him.....how could you or your husband rationalize stopping this meeting? Apologize for not including him in the decision making process but help him to know that it was inevitable and that he needs to stand up. I know he'll come around.

GOOFY4DONALD
05-26-2007, 02:42 PM
My nephew was adopted by my brother at 2 when his birth dad agreed to give up parental rights. He wasn't doing a very great job at showing up easily signed the papers. My brother knows he is Dad in every way. His son/my nephew has recently indicated a desire to remeet his birth dad. My brother is helping him arrange it. I think your family needs counseling. Your husband re-acted and now he needs to get his act together and be the mature man your son has grown to know and love as his father. Yeah, you could have taken 24 hours to think about the exposure and talked to him about it but in the end, your son wanted to see his birth dad and obviously the birth dad wanted to see him.....how could you or your husband rationalize stopping this meeting? Apologize for not including him in the decision making process but help him to know that it was inevitable and that he needs to stand up. I know he'll come around.
Very well said.

ginna74
05-26-2007, 03:10 PM
OMG OF COURSE the hubby is going to be angry! He has raised that boy and then out of nowhere the sperm donor decides he wants to be involved??? and upon his calling you promply put your son on the phone without consulting the only father that has been there for him??? This child should probably get some help ASAP. I am sorry but if I were the hubby I might re-evaluate the situation as this child is being sent different mesages and the fact that hubby wasn't consulted says everything. It wows me that people actually think that the dad is overreacting?????? WOW! If he were talked to the whole thing might be different. He was told that he wasn't inportant enough to be involved in what he thought was his sons life! I would step back if I were him and like I said re evaluate the situation. This is coming from a mom of a child whos bio father was involved also, then left. I am NOT angry at the OPS bio dad RATHER the WAY the situation was handled. If the bio dad chose to get involved here My hubby would not JUST help out. But he would be invovled in everything. He IS DADDY, and he is HERE. It doesn't take much to donate sperm. But it takes a very special man to choose to be a daddy, even if not related in blood. I hope the bio dad stays involved, as if he were to leave again,your son will be messed up yet again and hopefully the daddy will be there to pick up the pieces. Yes you made a mistake I think, but if hubby stays around then I hope all can be worked out and your son will understand eventually how much yourhubby has loved him and will love him.

Kickapoo Joie Juice
05-26-2007, 03:12 PM
I think you guys are glossing over how devastating it must be for the step dad to have been marginalized!

I mean, I keep reading posts like "he'll come around" and "he needs to grow up", and "it's time to stand up" and I'm thinking, wow, really? It's not like he was ever given a choice or even asked his opinion!

His wife just let him know he's about as important as a turd on a rock when it comes to important, life changing parental decisions that will affect everyone in that family!

I think the issue of the bio dad coming back into the picture is small potatoes compared to the potentially irreparable damage the OP did to her marriage by acting so thoughtlessly.

OP, I hope Charlie can find it in his heart to forgive you, because if it were me I don't know if I could do it. :sad1:

Maggimus
05-26-2007, 03:17 PM
Why is this little boy at 8 years old wondering about his real father that he hasnt seen for 6.5 years? Have you said to him daily that his "dad" isnt his biological father?

I think im just a little shocked by the situation at hand and wondering if there is more to the story here.

Little boy knows his dad until hes a little over a year old... dad leaves never to be heard from again..

Child turns 8 years old and the little boy has been asking where his biological father is? What makes him think that "dad" isnt his biological father? If its because he "remembers his father"-- how does he recall that from such a young age? Are you keeping his fathers memory alive in his head?

Tons of children are raised by step-parents but dont find out until later in life about their real biological family(always thinking "mom and dad" are just like everyone elses "mom and dad")... I think this isnt just to "hide" the truth-- but its more for the mental health of the child. We as adults dont even like to deal with this type of family struggle.... imagine what its doing to this child. I would understand had the dad been calling for 6 months asking everyday about how his son was... proving to you, the mother, that he really is trying to become a staple in this childs life. However I do not understand what-so-ever how a little boy at 8 could remember his father so well... and when his father calls you would hand an 8 year old boy the telephone to talk to someone he doesnt even know. What kind of message is this sending to the child?

I would gain trust with the "father" through a serious of months before allowing him the opportunity to hurt your son. You do realize that some people who see these types of interactions in their early childhood grow up and feel as though thats how they deserve to be treated. Which may lead to them treating others this way. You are not only the mother but the parent... and you must protect your child. I have a feeling this isnt going to turn out so well.

Whats the harm in making "father" prove that he really does want to know his child by calling you and finding out about him for say-- the next 6 months? Gaining trust that way if he cant hang for 6 months then he obviously doesnt care enough to hang around at all. The man has been out of his life for 6 years.... whats 6 more months?

At 8 years old I feel that this is a whole lot of stress that this child shouldnt be dealing with...

ginna74
05-26-2007, 03:19 PM
kick I agree with you totally! And mag you too

bellarella
05-26-2007, 03:30 PM
I agree that the "grow up" comments direct at OP's DH are out of line. The way this scenario was thrust upon him is the issue, not what the scenario was.

Think of it this way. You are in a marriage where you make financial decision together. One day one spouse just shows up with a new car (even a "new" used car). The other spouse is ticked. Would the reaction be that the ticked spouse needs to get over it? Even if they were going to be needing a new car in the near future, in a relationship where financial matters are discussed, this would be a huge breach of trust. In talking it over they might very well have come to the conclusion to buy that very same car that was now sitting in the driveway, but that is all rather beside the point (though that will probably help repair the damage).

And buying a car is a *much* less big of a deal that spontaneously letting the biological father back into the son's life.

The red flags to me that indicate that the DH in this scenario is not merely acting hurt (though hurt is probably one of the feelings) are:

1. The child's memories of his biological father have been reinforced in an odd way -- memories from 2 are not that developed later in childhood without support.

2. The child has been crying about wanting to see his biological dad. Why? What is missing in his life that he's looking outside basically the only family unit he has ever known?

3. The fact that he has been crying has not been shared with his stepdad -- he has been kept out of the loop.

4. The OP's first reaction to an out of blue phone call from her ex was excitement.

5. The use of OP's phrasing "her" son rather than "our" son.

6. The first reaction of the OP was that her DH was reacting out of hurt, rather than thinking that maybe he just thought she handled things in a way that were *not* in the best interest of their son.

All of these things add up to a scenario where there is *much* more needed than for the DH to "get over" his feelings or "grow up." I think he has a real basis to fear both for the strength of his marriage and for the emotional well being of his son.

GOOFY4DONALD
05-26-2007, 03:37 PM
The one thing that nobody is realizing is that no matter how long bio dad was gone..unless he signed away his rights... he could and probably would return at some point; even if only briefly. I think that if mom and stepdad though otherwise it was careless on their part. My ex is in and out of my daughter's life all the time but I always have to keep it in my mind that yes he will return.

ginna74
05-26-2007, 03:51 PM
I don't think people are upset over the bio father (although we could talk about bio fathers in a new thred lol).

GOOFY4DONALD
05-26-2007, 03:55 PM
I don't think people are upset over the bio father (although we could talk about that in a new thred lol). I understand. And yes I think that mom should have told her husband that "junior's" father has called and would like to schedule a visit. Let's talk about this as a family. Yes that would be great. But what I have read is that stepdad is more than upset mom talked to bio dad without informing him. He seems upset that he is calling at all. Maybe I am way off. But it seems like stepdad and mom set up their family and acted as if there never was a biodad.

ginna74
05-26-2007, 04:07 PM
I don't think that all at I think it has all to do with how the mom handled it.
"Maybe I am way off. But it seems like stepdad and mom set up their family and acted as if there never was a biodad."


well of course there has to be a bio dad. we all have one. Weather they sick around and show up years later or stick around or never stick around it doesn't matter . " It doesn't take much to donate sperm. But it takes a very special man to choose to be a daddy, even if not related in blood." Again it really isn't about the bio dad, it is about the way it was handled and the daddy being treated like HE wasn't important or like he didn't raise someone elses child as his own.


"

Hannathy
05-26-2007, 04:28 PM
I think many of you that are calling the bio Dad a sperm donor are forgetting HE HAS BEEN PAYING child support regularly for the last 6 yrs! He didn't cut and run, he did act semi responsibly for his son. Should he have seen his son - yes of course BUT he has supported him. I also think the Mom should have talked about the child's father, especially since he is paying for him. Why wouldn't she tell him about him? He has the right to know. Every one is right they should have discussed this day long before it ever happened since he didn't cut his ties and he kept supporting the child. Not doing this was short sided but I doubt very many of us could truthfully say we have planned for every single thing that could happen in our lives.

summerrluvv
05-26-2007, 04:30 PM
The bio dad is the bio dad, end of story. If he wants to see his son, he wants to see his son. Unless the stepfather adopted the OP's son, he really has no say in the matter, regardless if he has helped raise the son or not, and regardless of the fact that he thinks he is the dad. The OP should not have to discuss anything pertaining to the bio dad and their child together to her current husband. It really bother's me when step parents stick their noses where they don't belong. I had a stepmom that always stuck her nose in my mom and dad's business and just created more problems for the family and for a while I wasn't allowed to see my dad. You have to do what the child wants and he wants to see his dad.

lillygator
05-26-2007, 04:54 PM
I am still hoping everything is ok. (with OP's DH drinking last night)

I have to agree with some of the others, there is no way a 2 year old is going to remember his bio father whom he hasn't seen nor heard of since then....of course assuming OP hasn't built up someone to him.

OP, I hope you are able to sit down with DH and get everyone on the same page and work things out.

GOOFY4DONALD
05-26-2007, 04:55 PM
The bio dad is the bio dad, end of story. If he wants to see his son, he wants to see his son. Unless the stepfather adopted the OP's son, he really has no say in the matter, regardless if he has helped raise the son or not, and regardless of the fact that he thinks he is the dad. The OP should not have to discuss anything pertaining to the bio dad and their child together to her current husband. It really bother's me when step parents stick their noses where they don't belong. I had a stepmom that always stuck her nose in my mom and dad's business and just created more problems for the family and for a while I wasn't allowed to see my dad. You have to do what the child wants and he wants to see his dad. Amen to this post. I see so many mom (mostly moms) that have their children call her husband (or even current boyfriend dad) then after they break up next guy is dad. What does this say to the kids? My DH is my daughter's STEPDAD not her dad. My DH supports my daughter financially 100%. When he is home he takes her to school, goes to all of her games and school functions. But when it comes to her biodad he steps back. He doesn't like it but it is not about what he likes. It is about what is best for her. There is no denying that my ex is a jerk. He's a jerk to me and has even been a jerk to my daughter. But I do not ever talk to my DD about it. If anyone is going to ruin the relationship between them it will be the ex... not me and certainally not my husband. But I tell you what when my daughter is upset about her dad not showing up to get her or such me and my DH are there to pick up the pieces.

LuluLovesDisney
05-26-2007, 04:59 PM
I agree that the "grow up" comments direct at OP's DH are out of line. The way this scenario was thrust upon him is the issue, not what the scenario was.

Think of it this way. You are in a marriage where you make financial decision together. One day one spouse just shows up with a new car (even a "new" used car). The other spouse is ticked. Would the reaction be that the ticked spouse needs to get over it? Even if they were going to be needing a new car in the near future, in a relationship where financial matters are discussed, this would be a huge breach of trust. In talking it over they might very well have come to the conclusion to buy that very same car that was now sitting in the driveway, but that is all rather beside the point (though that will probably help repair the damage).

And buying a car is a *much* less big of a deal that spontaneously letting the biological father back into the son's life.

The red flags to me that indicate that the DH in this scenario is not merely acting hurt (though hurt is probably one of the feelings) are:

1. The child's memories of his biological father have been reinforced in an odd way -- memories from 2 are not that developed later in childhood without support.

2. The child has been crying about wanting to see his biological dad. Why? What is missing in his life that he's looking outside basically the only family unit he has ever known?

3. The fact that he has been crying has not been shared with his stepdad -- he has been kept out of the loop.

4. The OP's first reaction to an out of blue phone call from her ex was excitement.

5. The use of OP's phrasing "her" son rather than "our" son.

6. The first reaction of the OP was that her DH was reacting out of hurt, rather than thinking that maybe he just thought she handled things in a way that were *not* in the best interest of their son.

All of these things add up to a scenario where there is *much* more needed than for the DH to "get over" his feelings or "grow up." I think he has a real basis to fear both for the strength of his marriage and for the emotional well being of his son.

I completely agree!

This man is raising another man's child as his own, creating a home for them, all the things that the "real" "father" didn't.

I imagine how frustrating it must be for him to hear the excitement in his son's voice at talking to his "father". I am sure he feels that this man has been absent for 6 years and does not deserve to have his "homecoming" lauded like a hero. This is like if one family member always cleans and cooks and never hears a compliment, but if someone cleans or cooks once who *never* does, and gets all the accolades - except this deals with parent-child relationships, something a lot more serious.

I cannot imagine why anyone would feel that this man needs to grow up. It takes a special person to be able to raise a child that their spouse had with another person. I will be honest and say that it would be too difficult for me, personally.

He probably is struggling emotionally and mentally with this new development *and* the fact that the decision was made without his knowledge. As a PP mentioned, the OP referred to "her son" not "our son", so he might be thinking the same thing - that she doesn't consider her DH to be the real dad here when he's the one who's lived that role for all these years.

He is probably hurt and confused and questioning where he stands in his wife's eyes, and worse yet, in his son's.

I would advise the OP to hear how he feels and if she considers the boy "their son", he should have an equal voice in parenting decisions - and whatever excitement was present in their voices for the "father" should be doubled and tripled on Father's Day for the real man who stayed by their side.

ginna74
05-26-2007, 05:01 PM
well again.... it isn't about the bio dad. YES the mom was wrong by not telling the dad. the man who is raising the child. WE aren't talking about how the bio dad wasn't around and decided to show up out of the blue. By saying themom shouldn't tell the dad... well...I want to roll my eyes lol and say that is VERY disfunctional. I mean WE OUGHTTO APPLAUD THIS GUY. TAKES A SPECIAL MAN TO RAISE A CHILD THAT WAS LEFTBEHIND! PERIOD!

LuluLovesDisney
05-26-2007, 05:03 PM
Why is this little boy at 8 years old wondering about his real father that he hasnt seen for 6.5 years? Have you said to him daily that his "dad" isnt his biological father?

I think im just a little shocked by the situation at hand and wondering if there is more to the story here.

Little boy knows his dad until hes a little over a year old... dad leaves never to be heard from again..

Child turns 8 years old and the little boy has been asking where his biological father is? What makes him think that "dad" isnt his biological father? If its because he "remembers his father"-- how does he recall that from such a young age? Are you keeping his fathers memory alive in his head?

Tons of children are raised by step-parents but dont find out until later in life about their real biological family(always thinking "mom and dad" are just like everyone elses "mom and dad")... I think this isnt just to "hide" the truth-- but its more for the mental health of the child. We as adults dont even like to deal with this type of family struggle.... imagine what its doing to this child. I would understand had the dad been calling for 6 months asking everyday about how his son was... proving to you, the mother, that he really is trying to become a staple in this childs life. However I do not understand what-so-ever how a little boy at 8 could remember his father so well... and when his father calls you would hand an 8 year old boy the telephone to talk to someone he doesnt even know. What kind of message is this sending to the child?

I would gain trust with the "father" through a serious of months before allowing him the opportunity to hurt your son. You do realize that some people who see these types of interactions in their early childhood grow up and feel as though thats how they deserve to be treated. Which may lead to them treating others this way. You are not only the mother but the parent... and you must protect your child. I have a feeling this isnt going to turn out so well.

Whats the harm in making "father" prove that he really does want to know his child by calling you and finding out about him for say-- the next 6 months? Gaining trust that way if he cant hang for 6 months then he obviously doesnt care enough to hang around at all. The man has been out of his life for 6 years.... whats 6 more months?

At 8 years old I feel that this is a whole lot of stress that this child shouldnt be dealing with...

Yes. I agree, Mag.

robertsmom
05-26-2007, 05:08 PM
I think many of you that are calling the bio Dad a sperm donor are forgetting HE HAS BEEN PAYING child support regularly for the last 6 yrs! He didn't cut and run, he did act semi responsibly for his son.

This statement really stuck with me. How do you know he didn't "cut and run"? My ex has been paying CS for four years, but I would never say he acted responsibly. When our son was born, he promised to contribute financially to his care if I did not go after him in court. Being young (21) and stupid, I agreed. After three years, I had received a grand total of maybe 300 bucks. I finally took it to court. It took almost three years of searching for him and submitting to DNA tests before I got any money. He was FORCED to take responsibility - he did not willingly do it, trust me. Just because a man is paying CS does not mean he will be any sort of responsible parent.

ExPirateShopGirl
05-26-2007, 05:08 PM
Let's remember that financial support and emotional support are two different things. While one is helpful, the other is really crucial to a person's overall development.

I'm sorry you had crappy a crappy step-parent, Summerluvv, but not all step parents are (and no, I am not a step-parent, nor was I ever a stepchild, redheaded or otherwise ;))

I gather from the OP's posts that she also has a child with the current husband. Even more reason that the step-father (who has raised the boy since he was 18 months) is the essential male parent to the boy and the other child. People would be outraged if he treated those children differently. The bio dad has a right to visit his son (as deemed by the court) and they should develop some sort of relationship. But to say the step-father should not have a say is ridiculous. The bio dad, if he has the boy's best interests in mind, would allow the mom and her now DH to decide how best to ease him back into the boy's life. I question any man who could remain (by his choice) out of his child's life for such an extended time. It could also be that the new wife is urging him to contact him again, as well. Which basically means deep down the bio dad still doesn't 'get it.'

GOOFY4DONALD
05-26-2007, 05:10 PM
well again.... it isn't about the bio dad. YES the mom was wrong by not telling the dad. the man who is raising the child. WE aren't talking about how the bio dad wasn't around and decided to show up out of the blue. By saying themom shouldn't tell the dad... well...I want to roll my eyes lol and say that is VERY disfunctional. I mean WE OUGHTTO APPLAUD THIS GUY. TAKES A SPECIAL MAN TO RAISE A CHILD THAT WAS LEFTBEHIND! PERIOD! Yes this guy is great for taking on this role but he only took on part of it. Before he married mom did stepdad think of what would happen if bio dad left...what about if he came back. Most people don't think that far ahead. This cannot be about biodad, stepdad or mom. This has to be about a little boy and his feelings. At 8 they are very perceptive. Bio dad calles, mom gets upset, stepdad doesn't come home everyone is yelling and crying. If this were my daughter she would be crying thinking this is all her fault.

Maggimus
05-26-2007, 05:12 PM
I think many of you that are calling the bio Dad a sperm donor are forgetting HE HAS BEEN PAYING child support regularly for the last 6 yrs! He didn't cut and run, he did act semi responsibly for his son. Should he have seen his son - yes of course BUT he has supported him. I also think the Mom should have talked about the child's father, especially since he is paying for him. Why wouldn't she tell him about him? He has the right to know. Every one is right they should have discussed this day long before it ever happened since he didn't cut his ties and he kept supporting the child. Not doing this was short sided but I doubt very many of us could truthfully say we have planned for every single thing that could happen in our lives.

Well i suppose that means as long as we pop out babies and somehow pay for them in turn we deserve to do with the children what we please... even if that means emotional abuse (which is what popping in and out of a childs life and in the end changing the person that they are is... emotional abuse)....

LuluLovesDisney
05-26-2007, 05:12 PM
This statement really stuck with me. How do you know he didn't "cut and run"? My ex has been paying CS for four years, but I would never say he acted responsibly. When our son was born, he promised to contribute financially to his care if I did not go after him in court. Being young (21) and stupid, I agreed. After three years, I had received a grand total of maybe 300 bucks. I finally took it to court. It took almost three years of searching for him and submitting to DNA tests before I got any money. He was FORCED to take responsibility - he did not willingly do it, trust me. Just because a man is paying CS does not mean he will be any sort of responsible parent.

I agree. Paying child support doesn't mean that he's a father to this kid. That is his legal obligation, not his moral one.

ginna74
05-26-2007, 05:15 PM
Let's remember that financial support and emotional support are two different things. While one is helpful, the other is really crucial to a person's overall development.

I'm sorry you had crappy a crappy step-parent, Summerluvv, but not all step parents are (and no, I am not a step-parent, nor was I ever a stepchild, redheaded or otherwise ;))

I gather from the OP's posts that she also has a child with the current husband. Even more reason that the step-father (who has raised the boy since he was 18 months) is the essential male parent to the boy and the other child. People would be outraged if he treated those children differently. The bio dad has a right to visit his son (as deemed by the court) and they should develop some sort of relationship. But to say the step-father should not have a say is ridiculous. The bio dad, if he has the boy's best interests in mind, would allow the mom and her now DH to decide how best to ease him back into the boy's life. I question any man who could remain (by his choice) out of his child's life for such an extended time. It could also be that the new wife is urging him to contact him again, as well. Which basically means deep down the bio dad still doesn't 'get it.'


you said it better then me lol

Maggimus
05-26-2007, 05:17 PM
Let's remember that financial support and emotional support are two different things. While one is helpful, the other is really crucial to a person's overall development.

I'm sorry you had crappy a crappy step-parent, Summerluvv, but not all step parents are (and no, I am not a step-parent, nor was I ever a stepchild, redheaded or otherwise ;))

I gather from the OP's posts that she also has a child with the current husband. Even more reason that the step-father (who has raised the boy since he was 18 months) is the essential male parent to the boy and the other child. People would be outraged if he treated those children differently. The bio dad has a right to visit his son (as deemed by the court) and they should develop some sort of relationship. But to say the step-father should not have a say is ridiculous. The bio dad, if he has the boy's best interests in mind, would allow the mom and her now DH to decide how best to ease him back into the boy's life. I question any man who could remain (by his choice) out of his child's life for such an extended time. It could also be that the new wife is urging him to contact him again, as well. Which basically means deep down the bio dad still doesn't 'get it.'


That seems to be my biggest concern.... and I completely agree with you. I, in no way, think the father shouldn't SEE his son... but it shouldnt be done due to one phone call "hey let me see my son. i tried to before but you wouldnt let me"... I would never hand my son the phone and then agree to just take my son to meet him.... I think this whole situation could have been different if the husband were involved and they both, together, eased the son into a mentality that sometime in the future he would get to meet his father again... and maybe prepare him for that. Not slapping the phone to his head and agreeing on meeting him sometime soon (even if soon was weeks instead of days..).

GOOFY4DONALD
05-26-2007, 05:24 PM
That seems to be my biggest concern.... and I completely agree with you. I, in no way, think the father shouldn't SEE his son... but it shouldnt be done due to one phone call "hey let me see my son. i tried to before but you wouldnt let me"... I would never hand my son the phone and then agree to just take my son to meet him.... I think this whole situation could have been different if the husband were involved and they both, together, eased the son into a mentality that sometime in the future he would get to meet his father again... and maybe prepare him for that. Not slapping the phone to his head and agreeing on meeting him sometime soon (even if soon was weeks instead of days..).
I agree with this to a point. No mom shouldn't have just handed the phone to her son without talking to her son first and explaining what is going on. You should not keep this a secret from stepdad but to be blunt...it is really none of his business. If I were to ask my DH what he thinks of my DD seeing her dad (esp after he takes a year or two leave of absence) he would say no way. But is that really in my daughter's best interest or his. I agree that dad has the right to be upset..but this upset? Is he really acting like the 'dad' everyone is saying he is? A man would have come home and discussed this and faced this like a man. Not pouted like a little kid.

ExPirateShopGirl
05-26-2007, 05:33 PM
In this case, the OP has chosen to make a life and a family with a responsible man who was good enough to raise the boy like his own. Clearly, the boy knows the man is his stepfather. Doesn't mean the stepfather shouldn't be part of a decision that affects the whole family.

I agree that having a turnstile of men in and out of one's life and having the kids call each one 'dad' is ridiculous and harmful. But that's hardly the situation here.

My DF makes no parenting decisions regarding my kids whatsoever. Then again, I never put him in the position of having to. By way of contrast, I have to beg the ex to become involved with the kids. Example? ExH couldn't be bothered to attend a father-daughter formal dance. DD really wanted to go. I asked her if she'd like DF to substitute (and I used that word) and she happily agreed. DF flew over 5 hours just to take her to the dance. He bought a special floral doodad for her hair and a really nice corsage and wore a tux. When he arrived for their 'date' he said, "I know I'm not your father, but I hope I'll do." Her response? "Man, you clean up NICE! No wonder mom thinks you're cute!"

After the dance, my other DD and I met them for dessert at the Cheesecake Factory where DD went on and on about what a great time she had.

He will never be my kids' father, but he doesn't have to be. He's the incredibly wonderful man who makes their mom happy... and they love him for that.

Amen to this post. I see so many mom (mostly moms) that have their children call her husband (or even current boyfriend dad) then after they break up next guy is dad. What does this say to the kids? My DH is my daughter's STEPDAD not her dad. My DH supports my daughter financially 100%. When he is home he takes her to school, goes to all of her games and school functions. But when it comes to her biodad he steps back. He doesn't like it but it is not about what he likes. It is about what is best for her. There is no denying that my ex is a jerk. He's a jerk to me and has even been a jerk to my daughter. But I do not ever talk to my DD about it. If anyone is going to ruin the relationship between them it will be the ex... not me and certainally not my husband. But I tell you what when my daughter is upset about her dad not showing up to get her or such me and my DH are there to pick up the pieces.

basketrn
05-26-2007, 05:35 PM
The bio dad is the bio dad, end of story. If he wants to see his son, he wants to see his son. Unless the stepfather adopted the OP's son, he really has no say in the matter, regardless if he has helped raise the son or not, and regardless of the fact that he thinks he is the dad. The OP should not have to discuss anything pertaining to the bio dad and their child together to her current husband. It really bother's me when step parents stick their noses where they don't belong. I had a stepmom that always stuck her nose in my mom and dad's business and just created more problems for the family and for a while I wasn't allowed to see my dad. You have to do what the child wants and he wants to see his dad.


Just because you pay your weekly legal obligation to a child, DOESN'T give you the right to come in and out of a child's life. If the OP's DH has been supporting this child (finanically & emotionally) since a very young age, that makes him a true father to this child, not the check writing bio dad. I have been in both your situation as a child, both bio parents were involved in my life, but step parent was a pain in the you know what....this is COMPLETELY different. This bio parent made a very obvious choice not to be involved in this childs life. He shouldn't be able to just waltz back into his life at his convience without the OP and DH discussing this first.

My DS's bio father was in and out of his life for the first 3 years of his life, no choice but his own. Eventually he stopped altogether. My DH has stepped 100% in the role of DS's TRUE father. In fact, we took care of this potential problem 3 years ago, and DH adopted him. We have had several conversations about bio dad and DS wanting to see each other, and I know it will eventually come up, but we (Me & DH) have made our decision TOGETHER on how we are going to handle this situation with OUR child.

I wish you all the luck with this very difficult situation.

Maggimus
05-26-2007, 05:35 PM
I agree with this to a point. No mom shouldn't have just handed the phone to her son without talking to her son first and explaining what is going on. You should not keep this a secret from stepdad but to be blunt...it is really none of his business. If I were to ask my DH what he thinks of my DD seeing her dad (esp after he takes a year or two leave of absence) he would say no way. But is that really in my daughter's best interest or his. I agree that dad has the right to be upset..but this upset? Is he really acting like the 'dad' everyone is saying he is? A man would have come home and discussed this and faced this like a man. Not pouted like a little kid.

And I can see where you are coming from as well-- I agree that if the dad is dead set against it-- the mother has the upper hand. However, I feel as though even though this husband may have not legally adopted this child... he has cared for him like his own for many years now- in turn probably feeling as though this child were his own. If the dad understanding in the least im quite sure he would have come around and understood the reasoning behind having the two reunite. However , I feel that his reaction right now is somewhat justified (not the drinking- but being upset).. It all seemed to happen so quickly and yet he didnt feel important. Anyone who has poured their heart, soul, and emotion into raising someone only to feel as though they are somewhat being torn apart from them can be very devastating (or at least I can imagine)-- especially at first reaction. This seem to all happen so fast-- today is a new day and they may have very well come to terms with the situation. I do understand that people act out in anger when they are upset-- a lot of people do it, both men and women. He got upset-- he wanted time to cool down-- and he acted a little irrationally. I hope by now they both have worked this out. I doubt, however, that the husband is mad completely over the new dad calling-- but possibly more mad at his wife (or at least that's what im picking up by him not wanting to communicate with her). She had no way of keeping the father from calling... but she did have control over at least letting him know whats going on and keeping him informed (of all the night time cries and the phone call). That's somewhat betrayal... because he could have very well been just the husband who lived with the wife and "her son" and the woman had complete handle over the child. People do seem to carry on like that sometimes. However this child was calling him "dad"-- and thats a respect that must be gained. So he probably is just very hurt and doesn't know how to handle his emotion right now.

LuluLovesDisney
05-26-2007, 05:41 PM
The bio dad is the bio dad, end of story. If he wants to see his son, he wants to see his son. Unless the stepfather adopted the OP's son, he really has no say in the matter, regardless if he has helped raise the son or not, and regardless of the fact that he thinks he is the dad. The OP should not have to discuss anything pertaining to the bio dad and their child together to her current husband. It really bother's me when step parents stick their noses where they don't belong. I had a stepmom that always stuck her nose in my mom and dad's business and just created more problems for the family and for a while I wasn't allowed to see my dad. You have to do what the child wants and he wants to see his dad.

Actually when they married and took a vow to live as one, she pretty much promised that she would. What is the point of a marriage if there is no obligation to the other person?

What happens if bio dad pops in and then disappears for another 6 years?

Raising a child is just an act of kindness like holding a door? It doesn't have any ties or bonds?

I am sorry you weren't allowed to see your father when you wanted to. That may have been wrong, but that does not mean that every child should be allowed to see their biological father whenever that "father" wants to get back in the picture without any discussion whatsoever. I think many people here believe that the biological father should be given an opportunity to be in the boy's life, but the world should not spin upside down at their marriage's expense to make that happen. If the biological father has had enough of being a baby and wants to be a man, then they'll need to ease him into that child's life, not just throw them together and hope for the best.

GOOFY4DONALD
05-26-2007, 05:42 PM
And I can see where you are coming from as well-- I agree that if the dad is dead set against it-- the mother has the upper hand. However, I feel as though even though this husband may have not legally adopted this child... he has cared for him like his own for many years now- in turn probably feeling as though this child were his own. If the dad understanding in the least im quite sure he would have come around and understood the reasoning behind having the two reunite. However , I feel that his reaction right now is somewhat justified (not the drinking- but being upset).. It all seemed to happen so quickly and yet he didnt feel important. Anyone who has poured their heart, soul, and emotion into raising someone only to feel as though they are somewhat being torn apart from them can be very devastating (or at least I can imagine)-- especially at first reaction. This seem to all happen so fast-- today is a new day and they may have very well come to terms with the situation. I do understand that people act out in anger when they are upset-- a lot of people do it, both men and women. He got upset-- he wanted time to cool down-- and he acted a little irrationally. I hope by now they both have worked this out. I doubt, however, that the husband is mad completely over the new dad calling-- but possibly more mad at his wife (or at least that's what im picking up by him not wanting to communicate with her). She had no way of keeping the father from calling... but she did have control over at least letting him know whats going on and keeping him informed (of all the night time cries and the phone call). That's somewhat betrayal... because he could have very well been just the husband who lived with the wife and "her son" and the woman had complete handle over the child. People do seem to carry on like that sometimes. However this child was calling him "dad"-- and thats a respect that must be gained. So he probably is just very hurt and doesn't know how to handle his emotion right now.
I understand where you are coming from. Obviously we don't have the entire story. In the beginning mom could have acted as if the ex was the love of her life...lost. Now that time has passed mom forgot all about this but her DH remembers and now that ex is back in the picture he could feel threatened. But these are all things that have to be handled as and adult. Not taking calls, not coming home, going out drinking is not behavior that an adult would use if they are worried about the welfare of a child. I think that there is more going on here and this is the straw that broke...welll you know the rest.

GOOFY4DONALD
05-26-2007, 05:45 PM
Actually when they married and took a vow to live as one, she pretty much promised that she would. What is the point of a marriage if there is no obligation to the other person?

What happens if bio dad pops in and then disappears for another 6 years?

Raising a child is just an act of kindness like holding a door? It doesn't have any ties or bonds?

I am sorry you weren't allowed to see your father when you wanted to. That may have been wrong, but that does not mean that every child should be allowed to see their biological father whenever that "father" wants to get back in the picture without any discussion whatsoever. I think many people here believe that the biological father should be given an opportunity to be in the boy's life, but the world should not spin upside down at their marriage's expense to make that happen. If the biological father has had enough of being a baby and wants to be a man, then they'll need to ease him into that child's life, not just throw them together and hope for the best.I think that a stepparent has the hardest job in the world. They take on a family help support (financially and emotionally) kids that are not theirs. Many times they are around more than a bioparent. After all this they have to take a backseat to the bio parent.

LuluLovesDisney
05-26-2007, 05:46 PM
I understand where you are coming from. Obviously we don't have the entire story. In the beginning mom could have acted as if the ex was the love of her life...lost. Now that time has passed mom forgot all about this but her DH remembers and now that ex is back in the picture he could feel threatened. But these are all things that have to be handled as and adult. Not taking calls, not coming home, going out drinking is not behavior that an adult would use if they are worried about the welfare of a child. I think that there is more going on here and this is the straw that broke...welll you know the rest.

Probably so.

Maggimus
05-26-2007, 05:46 PM
I understand where you are coming from. Obviously we don't have the entire story. In the beginning mom could have acted as if the ex was the love of her life...lost. Now that time has passed mom forgot all about this but her DH remembers and now that ex is back in the picture he could feel threatened. But these are all things that have to be handled as and adult. Not taking calls, not coming home, going out drinking is not behavior that an adult would use if they are worried about the welfare of a child. I think that there is more going on here and this is the straw that broke...welll you know the rest.

i agree-- theres more to the story that we dont know about--- especially why this child would call out for someone at night that he doesnt even know- at 8 yrs old.

I dont think the husband is upset that she took the phone call-- but rather what the result of the phone call turned into (an agreement to meet with the child very soon and the son being placed on the phone). Had I been the husband I would have been upset as well-- even if it were my bio child i would never have put him on the phone so soon. As for not coming home, I cannot justify that behavior-- however he may have felt so unimportant that he saw no need to come back to a place where his opinion and self worth didnt seem to matter..

meandtheguys2
05-26-2007, 05:47 PM
OP, I hope and pray that things settle for you and your family soon. I din't read all of the replies, coming late to this long thread.

I think that you need to do what is best for your son, and give your husband a bit of time to heal. It sounds like he is an awesome step dad, and your boy has been blessed by his parenting. I'm glad your son is having the opportunity to make a connection with his bio. dad, though, also. It will be a mess for a bit, I suspect, and there will more than likely be some rough times, but the more people who love a child, the better off they are. And learning to forgive is important for kids and adults.

Good luck to you and your family.

summerrluvv
05-26-2007, 06:24 PM
I am still hoping everything is ok. (with OP's DH drinking last night)

I have to agree with some of the others, there is no way a 2 year old is going to remember his bio father whom he hasn't seen nor heard of since then....of course assuming OP hasn't built up someone to him.

OP, I hope you are able to sit down with DH and get everyone on the same page and work things out.


But what on earth is wrong with the OP talking to her son about his biological dad regardless if he hasn't been around for 6 years? Should she just pretend like he didn't exist? That's wrong IMO.

Maggimus
05-26-2007, 06:33 PM
But what on earth is wrong with the OP talking to her son about his biological dad regardless if he hasn't been around for 6 years? Should she just pretend like he didn't exist? That's wrong IMO.

No one has said its wrong-- but she said in one of her very own posts that the reason she knows about him is because he remembers.. its more less questioning how he remembers from that far back-- we are basing everything off of what the OP has told us.

GOOFY4DONALD
05-26-2007, 06:45 PM
No one has said its wrong-- but she said in one of her very own posts that the reason she knows about him is because he remembers.. its more less questioning how he remembers from that far back-- we are basing everything off of what the OP has told us. I don't beleive that he remembers dad. I am sure he WANTS to remember dad. All his friends have one. I think that mom had an obligation to discuss dad with her son and answer every one of his questions he had about him while growing up.

GOOFY4DONALD
05-26-2007, 06:47 PM
But what on earth is wrong with the OP talking to her son about his biological dad regardless if he hasn't been around for 6 years? Should she just pretend like he didn't exist? That's wrong IMO.
The only thing that I would have done different is to prepare her son for the call. After the call discuss his feelings and let her son know she is there is he needs her. I do not feel, and I never will, that she should ask her husband what he thinks should be done.

bellarella
05-26-2007, 06:52 PM
But what on earth is wrong with the OP talking to her son about his biological dad regardless if he hasn't been around for 6 years? Should she just pretend like he didn't exist? That's wrong IMO.

There is a way to acknowledge that he exists, and even that he cares for him without fostering "memories" or building him up to where the child cries out at night for him.

I have friends who have adopted children and friends who have had a biological parent drop out of their child's life very young. *None* of their children "remember" their biological parents, not by age 8. They all know of them and think well of them (no ill feelings), but none of them "miss" that absent biological parent(s). I am speaking here of children who were separated from their biological parent(s) at age 3 or younger. For the ones where it is a matter of the biological father having left, it would be possible to reintroduce that person if the need arose, but there is no hope or feeling of lack on the child's part (my friends in this situation are all remarried). I wouldn't be surprised if the children don't have fantasies of a long lost dad waltzing back into their lives, especially if they are serving time out at the moment, in the same way that children are with both their biological parents probably wish that a fictional TV mom or dad could come "save" them from their regular lives.

Having a child fostering "memories" of a biological parent and crying for them when they haven't seen them since age 2 and are now 8, is very much indicative to me that the situation has not been handled right.

summerrluvv
05-26-2007, 07:10 PM
Having a child fostering "memories" of a biological parent and crying for them when they haven't seen them since age 2 and are now 8, is very much indicative to me that the situation has not been handled right.

Or perhaps, like someone else said, the children around him (including his sibling) have a "real" dad and he wants that for himself.

LuluLovesDisney
05-26-2007, 07:19 PM
Or perhaps, like someone else said, the children around him (including his sibling) have a "real" dad and he wants that for himself.

Many of those children, like him, have "real" dads that might not be biological. Many children call a stepfather "dad" like he himself does. If the parents are really creating a functional, warm and nurturing home, he shouldn't consider his sibling's relationship with the dad any different than his own. That might not be the case, but it should be.

Kickapoo Joie Juice
05-26-2007, 07:32 PM
The only thing that I would have done different is to prepare her son for the call. After the call discuss his feelings and let her son know she is there is he needs her. I do not feel, and I never will, that she should ask her husband what he thinks should be done.


Heck, who needs husbands at all, then. :confused:

Oh that's right, I forgot, somebody needs to plunge the toilet when it needs it...

Seriously, what kind of a marriage is that where the husband is so marginalized that his opinion is not even worth hearing.

summerrluvv
05-26-2007, 07:36 PM
Many of those children, like him, have "real" dads that might not be biological. Many children call a stepfather "dad" like he himself does. If the parents are really creating a functional, warm and nurturing home, he shouldn't consider his sibling's relationship with the dad any different than his own. That might not be the case, but it should be.

Yes, I realize that some stepdads are called "dad".

By using "real" in quotes, I was inferring biological. I'm sure the child doesn't refer to him as his biological dad though. I don't know of any kid that uses that particular term. "Real" dad is probably used more often. I know it was when I was growing up.

GOOFY4DONALD
05-26-2007, 07:38 PM
Heck, who needs husbands at all, then. :confused:

Oh that's right, I forgot, somebody needs to plunge the toilet when it needs it...

Seriously, what kind of a marriage is that where the husband is so marginalized that his opinion is not even worth hearing. I think you are missing the point. Her husband should know what is going on in the house but he really has no say in what the mom wants for her son in regards to his bio dad. I think that this sounds more like a control issue on stepdads part.

summerrluvv
05-26-2007, 07:43 PM
I think you are missing the point. Her husband should know what is going on in the house but he really has no say in what the mom wants for her son in regards to his bio dad. I think that this sounds more like a control issue on stepdads part.

::yes::

LuluLovesDisney
05-26-2007, 07:44 PM
Yes, I realize that some stepdads are called "dad".

By using "real" in quotes, I was inferring biological. I'm sure the child doesn't refer to him as his biological dad though. I don't know of any kid that uses that particular term. "Real" dad is probably used more often. I know it was when I was growing up.

I agree. Kids don't often say "biological dad", but I worded it that way because calling someone who's rarely around (if at all) "real" doesn't sit well with me. It also makes someone who is adopted feel awkward - like their mom and dad aren't their "real" parents. That is part of why I feel like the one who wipes your tears and makes your dinner and pays for your sneakers is more "real" than the one whose DNA is in your body. Some people have a stepdad and a bio dad that are both "real", some have neither. It can get really complex. You're right that most people use the term "real" dad exactly as you did, but I just wanted to show why it isn't what I prefer.

Hannathy
05-26-2007, 07:50 PM
I think you are missing the point. Her husband should know what is going on in the house but he really has no say in what the mom wants for her son in regards to his bio dad. I think that this sounds more like a control issue on stepdads part.

ITA! especially with the "fit" he threw- not talking, not taking call, going out drinking, not coming home.

ceecee
05-26-2007, 08:07 PM
I agree that the "grow up" comments direct at OP's DH are out of line. The way this scenario was thrust upon him is the issue, not what the scenario was.

Think of it this way. You are in a marriage where you make financial decision together. One day one spouse just shows up with a new car (even a "new" used car). The other spouse is ticked. Would the reaction be that the ticked spouse needs to get over it? Even if they were going to be needing a new car in the near future, in a relationship where financial matters are discussed, this would be a huge breach of trust. In talking it over they might very well have come to the conclusion to buy that very same car that was now sitting in the driveway, but that is all rather beside the point (though that will probably help repair the damage).

And buying a car is a *much* less big of a deal that spontaneously letting the biological father back into the son's life.

The red flags to me that indicate that the DH in this scenario is not merely acting hurt (though hurt is probably one of the feelings) are:

1. The child's memories of his biological father have been reinforced in an odd way -- memories from 2 are not that developed later in childhood without support.

2. The child has been crying about wanting to see his biological dad. Why? What is missing in his life that he's looking outside basically the only family unit he has ever known?

3. The fact that he has been crying has not been shared with his stepdad -- he has been kept out of the loop.

4. The OP's first reaction to an out of blue phone call from her ex was excitement.

5. The use of OP's phrasing "her" son rather than "our" son.

6. The first reaction of the OP was that her DH was reacting out of hurt, rather than thinking that maybe he just thought she handled things in a way that were *not* in the best interest of their son.

All of these things add up to a scenario where there is *much* more needed than for the DH to "get over" his feelings or "grow up." I think he has a real basis to fear both for the strength of his marriage and for the emotional well being of his son.
6 VERY VALID points....I thought the same myself.
A REAL dad isn't the man who biologically contribed to the child, it is the one who emotionally contribed!!!
I hate the term "REAL DAD"... that is giving the guy who disappeared for 6 years all the respect and NONE to the guy who was there for the child.

bellarella
05-26-2007, 08:10 PM
I think you are missing the point. Her husband should know what is going on in the house but he really has no say in what the mom wants for her son in regards to his bio dad. I think that this sounds more like a control issue on stepdads part.


I disagree. He absolutely should have a say in what is best for a child. Biology does not make one automatically the best judge of what is best for child.

What is best for a child is when *all* of the parents in their life, biological or not, come together to make decisions for the child, setting aside their personal preferences and looking at things through the perspective of child's emotional and physical well being. This of course doesn't always happen.

Sometimes you have a biological parent who wants to drop all responsibility.

Sometimes you have a biological parent who wants to use the child as a way to keep a "hook" into or a tie to the ex-spouse.

Sometimes you have a biological parent who wants to use the child as weapon against the ex-spouse.

Sometimes you have a step parent who wants to abdicate all responsibility for the child.

Sometimes you have a step parent who wants to exclude the biological parent for selfish reasons.

Sometimes you have biological parents(s) who want to exclude step parents for selfish reasons.

All of these are failures to the child.

There is never an instance, short of abuse, when excluding *any* of the parents, biological or not, from a seat at the table is in the best interest of the child. Sometimes circumstances necessitate it because someone is unreasonable and selfish when sitting at that table, but that is a failure to the child, and should not be the starting point.

LuluLovesDisney
05-26-2007, 08:15 PM
I disagree. He absolutely should have a say in what is best for a child. Biology does not make one automatically the best judge of what is best for child.

What is best for a child is when *all* of the parents in their life, biological or not, come together to make decisions for the child, setting aside their personal preferences and looking at things through the perspective of child's emotional and physical well being. This of course doesn't always happen.

Sometimes you have a biological parent who wants to drop all responsibility.

Sometimes you have a biological parent who wants to use the child as a way to keep a "hook" into or a tie to the ex-spouse.

Sometimes you have a biological parent who wants to use the child as weapon against the ex-spouse.

Sometimes you have a step parent who wants to abdicate all responsibility for the child.

Sometimes you have a step parent who wants to exclude the biological parent for selfish reasons.

Sometimes you have biological parents(s) who want to exclude step parents for selfish reasons.

All of these are failures to the child.

There is never an instance, short of abuse, when excluding *any* of the parents, biological or not, from a seat at the table is in the best interest of the child. Sometimes circumstances necessitate it because someone is unreasonable and selfish when sitting at that table, but that is a failure to the child, and should not be the starting point.

Well said.

GOOFY4DONALD
05-26-2007, 09:47 PM
I disagree. He absolutely should have a say in what is best for a child. Biology does not make one automatically the best judge of what is best for child.

What is best for a child is when *all* of the parents in their life, biological or not, come together to make decisions for the child, setting aside their personal preferences and looking at things through the perspective of child's emotional and physical well being. This of course doesn't always happen.

Sometimes you have a biological parent who wants to drop all responsibility.

Sometimes you have a biological parent who wants to use the child as a way to keep a "hook" into or a tie to the ex-spouse.

Sometimes you have a biological parent who wants to use the child as weapon against the ex-spouse.

Sometimes you have a step parent who wants to abdicate all responsibility for the child.

Sometimes you have a step parent who wants to exclude the biological parent for selfish reasons.

Sometimes you have biological parents(s) who want to exclude step parents for selfish reasons.

All of these are failures to the child.

There is never an instance, short of abuse, when excluding *any* of the parents, biological or not, from a seat at the table is in the best interest of the child. Sometimes circumstances necessitate it because someone is unreasonable and selfish when sitting at that table, but that is a failure to the child, and should not be the starting point. This would be ideal...in an ideal world. But we are living in a world where this and our feeling really don't matter. A few years ago I lived through short of a living hell with my ex. He was out of my daughter's life for quite a few years and just waltzes in and acts life he was gone a day. In court my feeling didn't matter my husband's feeling certainly didn't matter. It also didn't matter that this guy was gone ... he was back now and the courts made sure that he got his rights. So the thing I learned through all this is that THE ADULTS DON'T MATTER. My daughter matters ... the children must matter. Adults may have hurt feeling but a child that thinks they created this problem could have devastating problems.

DisneyAprilFool
05-26-2007, 09:55 PM
My REAL Dad is the one who took care of me from 3rd grade until I graduated.

He is the Grandpa to my children... He is the one who just went to my daughter's first grade summer concert and applauded no matter how silly the song was...

His blood doesn't run through my veins and there was a time when I was a child that I was upset my BIOLOGICAL 'father' wasn't involved- but then as I matured, I realized that being a REAL DAD has nothing to do with blood ties.

It has everything to do with the heart.

This stepdad? He's this kid's real Dad.

bellarella
05-26-2007, 11:00 PM
This would be ideal...in an ideal world. But we are living in a world where this and our feeling really don't matter. A few years ago I lived through short of a living hell with my ex. He was out of my daughter's life for quite a few years and just waltzes in and acts life he was gone a day. In court my feeling didn't matter my husband's feeling certainly didn't matter. It also didn't matter that this guy was gone ... he was back now and the courts made sure that he got his rights. So the thing I learned through all this is that THE ADULTS DON'T MATTER. My daughter matters ... the children must matter. Adults may have hurt feeling but a child that thinks they created this problem could have devastating problems.

Your argument has changed. Previously you were arguing that step parents have no right (in the "universal" sense) to expect to be involved in decisions for the child, that only the mother (and I assume father if they were the custodial parent) does. Now you are saying that the courts dictate that. If that's the case, then it should be the goal to keep the courts the heck out of it. And to do that, I again maintain you don't go pre-emptively eliminating *any* parent from the decision making process until you absolutely are forced to.

The courts don't always get it right. However the courts don't step in until the adults have already failed the child. It may have been just one adult that did the failing, but the courts do not get involved if all parties are doing their job in the first place.

OP's actions have increased the likelihood that the courts will need to get involved. How would her ex have known that her DS was at home? There was no pressing need for her to hand the phone over. She could have easily expressed an interest in him being able to see him without committing to it in that moment. This all could have been handled with her DH involved, with her ex involved, all in a way that most protected her DS. Perhaps not, but at least that was a possibility.

Now her DS has the (possibly false) hope that his biological father will have a greater role than a check in his life. She has undermined her husbands trust, making it more likely that he will react stupidly and emotionally rather than rationally. I would say her marriage is at risk right now, and without recognizing the steps that got her here, the courts, whether family court for custody, or divorce court for her marriage, may be on the horizon.

And no matter what way you slice that, it isn't good for the child.

You may have been forced into allowing your child's biological father into the picture and that may have forced your DH out of the decision making process. That doesn't mean that is the natural state of affairs. Your DH was stripped of his rights as a family member by the courts, that doesn't make his situation the rightful place of all step parents, but rather the worst case scenario. I am truly sorry your family has been placed in such a situation.

mike&amy1508
05-26-2007, 11:34 PM
OP - I haven't been able to read all of the posts, and I don't know if this has been suggested yet, but I wanted to throw this idea out there: Maybe you should have your husband and your son sit down and talk about this together. He can't have any harsh feelings towards your son, and maybe your son could make him see & understand what this means to him; and show him that he still loves his "daddy" but needs to know his father, also.

GOOFY4DONALD
05-27-2007, 12:17 AM
Your argument has changed. Previously you were arguing that step parents have no right (in the "universal" sense) to expect to be involved in decisions for the child, that only the mother (and I assume father if they were the custodial parent) does. Now you are saying that the courts dictate that. If that's the case, then it should be the goal to keep the courts the heck out of it. And to do that, I again maintain you don't go pre-emptively eliminating *any* parent from the decision making process until you absolutely are forced to.

The courts don't always get it right. However the courts don't step in until the adults have already failed the child. It may have been just one adult that did the failing, but the courts do not get involved if all parties are doing their job in the first place.

OP's actions have increased the likelihood that the courts will need to get involved. How would her ex have known that her DS was at home? There was no pressing need for her to hand the phone over. She could have easily expressed an interest in him being able to see him without committing to it in that moment. This all could have been handled with her DH involved, with her ex involved, all in a way that most protected her DS. Perhaps not, but at least that was a possibility.

Now her DS has the (possibly false) hope that his biological father will have a greater role than a check in his life. She has undermined her husbands trust, making it more likely that he will react stupidly and emotionally rather than rationally. I would say her marriage is at risk right now, and without recognizing the steps that got her here, the courts, whether family court for custody, or divorce court for her marriage, may be on the horizon.

And no matter what way you slice that, it isn't good for the child.

You may have been forced into allowing your child's biological father into the picture and that may have forced your DH out of the decision making process. That doesn't mean that is the natural state of affairs. Your DH was stripped of his rights as a family member by the courts, that doesn't make his situation the rightful place of all step parents, but rather the worst case scenario. I am truly sorry your family has been placed in such a situation.
If I changed my position it was unintentional. My DH was never stripped of his rights by any court. He was never with me in court (my choice). My DH is a very imporant part of my family and he is very important to my daughter. What I was trying to say is that I make the decisions for my daughter not my husband. I was not taken to court because I failed in any way as a parent. I was taken back to court because my ex got remarried and she wanted equal time with DD... but that is a whole other story. My husband has equal say in everything except when it comes to my DD ... he will never have equal say. If it comes down to him or her guess which one I will choose. But I married a man that is mature enough to accept that he is and only will be the STEPFATHER.

mike&amy1508
05-27-2007, 12:23 AM
How Is Any Of This Arguing Supposed To Help The Op??? Take It Somewhere Else!!!!!!!

GOOFY4DONALD
05-27-2007, 12:24 AM
[QUOTE=bellarella;18866714]
The courts don't always get it right. However the courts don't step in until the adults have already failed the child. It may have been just one adult that did the failing, but the courts do not get involved if all parties are doing their job in the first place.
QUOTE] I would also like to add that courts do not only get involved because the bio parent has failed in some way. Anyone that has been blindsided by served legal papers knows how wrong this is. All you need is parent that feel they aren't getting their fair share and the courts will come into play. It is very rarely about failing a child...it is very rarely about the child at all.

GOOFY4DONALD
05-27-2007, 12:31 AM
I guess I will leave this thread before we get shut down. I would hope that the OP's husband made it home ok last night. I hope that the OP also realizes that her son needs help getting through this ...not just the DH. I also hope that if dad really comes around he stays around. I think that this family has a long bumpy road ahead but hopefully it will work out in the end.

eeyore3847
05-27-2007, 01:38 AM
I feel bad for your situation.
I think you need to sit down with step dad and apologize. You jumped without thinking. Also think your son needs to calm down and you need to also! I would not allow this man to just SHOW UP out of the blue and expect a relationship. I think the 3 of you ( step dad, bio dad and you) should sit down and talk about what his INTENTIONS are and set up a specific bi - weekly or weekly SUPERVISED event. Let your son get to know him. YOur son is in a magical place in which he thinks bio dad has done nothing wrong! it needs to be a gradual meeting and then go from there.
This was not handled correctly but can be fixed

Benducci
05-27-2007, 07:22 AM
I think the h realizes that 3 people in a marriage is 1 too many. I think the OP blew it by handing the phone to the sonw so quickly. Why would she be so excited to receive this phone call. If I was dh, I would feel the same way - he was the bench warmer for this other guy. Is she hoping to get back together with him? What gives? There is more to this than we realize. As a husband, he has some rights & she just blew right over them.

Where is the OP? Can she bring us up to date on what is going on?

lillygator
05-27-2007, 09:06 AM
But what on earth is wrong with the OP talking to her son about his biological dad regardless if he hasn't been around for 6 years? Should she just pretend like he didn't exist? That's wrong IMO.
I am not sure why you quoted me and then put words in my mouth...I never said anything about it being wrong, simply I find it hard to believe that a 2 year old would now - years later - remember his biological father and be calling out for him.

If I changed my position it was unintentional. My DH was never stripped of his rights by any court. He was never with me in court (my choice). My DH is a very imporant part of my family and he is very important to my daughter. What I was trying to say is that I make the decisions for my daughter not my husband. I was not taken to court because I failed in any way as a parent. I was taken back to court because my ex got remarried and she wanted equal time with DD... but that is a whole other story. My husband has equal say in everything except when it comes to my DD ... he will never have equal say. If it comes down to him or her guess which one I will choose. But I married a man that is mature enough to accept that he is and only will be the STEPFATHER.
wow!



Where is the OP? Can she bring us up to date on what is going on?

I hope so too! I am praying her DH made it home ok and that she was able to get him to ride with someone.

bellarella
05-27-2007, 09:17 AM
If I changed my position it was unintentional. My DH was never stripped of his rights by any court. He was never with me in court (my choice). My DH is a very imporant part of my family and he is very important to my daughter. What I was trying to say is that I make the decisions for my daughter not my husband. I was not taken to court because I failed in any way as a parent. I was taken back to court because my ex got remarried and she wanted equal time with DD... but that is a whole other story. My husband has equal say in everything except when it comes to my DD ... he will never have equal say. If it comes down to him or her guess which one I will choose. But I married a man that is mature enough to accept that he is and only will be the STEPFATHER.


I'm sorry -- I didn't mean to suggest *you" failed your DD. It only takes one parent to bring the courts in. I was thinking of the OP's situation where her ex failed the DS.

We do just disagree with how a step parenting relationship should ideally work. I'm glad you are married to someone who shares your views.

Kickapoo Joie Juice
05-27-2007, 09:35 AM
I think you are missing the point. Her husband should know what is going on in the house but he really has no say in what the mom wants for her son in regards to his bio dad. I think that this sounds more like a control issue on stepdads part.

So the six years this guy has spent raising, loving, and protecting this kid count for nothing where his bio dad is concerned? If this is the case, then no wonder there are problems.

You can't just point out parts of the marriage and say, "you have no business here". Either they're a team and they work on problems and solutions together, and compromise and agree, or the marriage isn't going to last.

I know that everyone does marriage differently, and I understand that you think that because Charlie hasn't donated his DNA to the child's makeup that he has no rights or opinions.

The stepdad doesn't want control, he wants to be acknowledged! And why shouldn't he have a say in the child's welfare that he's raised? If I were him, I'd sure want some "control" in my life, too.

All right, off my soapbox now, I hope everything works out ok for the OP.

shortbun
05-27-2007, 09:47 AM
ITA! especially with the "fit" he threw- not talking, not taking call, going out drinking, not coming home.

Yeah, this guy needs a reality check. It's obvious his wife is in his corner and that she was blindsided by the birthdad. He's needed right now in his home as a stable member acting on behalf of his son. His wife and he can settle their issues as an aside.

shortbun
05-27-2007, 09:54 AM
So the six years this guy has spent raising, loving, and protecting this kid count for nothing where his bio dad is concerned? If this is the case, then no wonder there are problems.

You can't just point out parts of the marriage and say, "you have no business here". Either they're a team and they work on problems and solutions together, and compromise and agree, or the marriage isn't going to last.

I know that everyone does marriage differently, and I understand that you think that because Charlie hasn't donated his DNA to the child's makeup that he has no rights or opinions.

The stepdad doesn't want control, he wants to be acknowledged! And why shouldn't he have a say in the child's welfare that he's raised? If I were him, I'd sure want some "control" in my life, too.

All right, off my soapbox now, I hope everything works out ok for the OP.


I've climbed up on your box now that you're off it. This guy is more than a 'stepdad'; he is THE Dad and he's acting like a child. Refusing to talk, getting drunk and not coming home-these are controlling techniques. Coming home, saying "I'm mad and hurt, we need to talk but first our son is in jeopardy"...now that's a rational act. Asking to see a counselor, listening to your wife's confusion and understanding, being there for your family....those are rational acts. "He wants to be acknowledged!"?????? Be real! The 8yo boy is the one everyone should have at their center right now. As adults and parents, we know that we must wait for our trophies, medals and acknowledgements until way past their due. Again, they guy needs to get his act together, allow his wife to apologize and accept it, then move on to what is most important.

tmarquez
05-27-2007, 10:38 AM
I'm sorry your DH is mad. But I was that little boy once too. My mom never spoke of my dad and still won't. The last time I saw him I was 12 (and that was after a couple of years of not seeing him. I don't know why everything stopped at that point. When I was finally old enough (and got up enough nerve) to find him myself...I found him...but he passed away the year before.

Now my DD who is 4 asks about her grandpa and I don't even have pictures to show her. I'm sad for myself...but even more sad for her.

I know your DH must be hurt, but he really needs to see it from your sons eyes. Your son wanting to know his bio dad will not just go away. He might hide it eventually...but you don't want him to have to do that. Keep trying to involve DH though, that's the right thing to do.

GOOFY4DONALD
05-27-2007, 11:07 AM
So the six years this guy has spent raising, loving, and protecting this kid count for nothing where his bio dad is concerned? If this is the case, then no wonder there are problems.

You can't just point out parts of the marriage and say, "you have no business here". Either they're a team and they work on problems and solutions together, and compromise and agree, or the marriage isn't going to last.

I know that everyone does marriage differently, and I understand that you think that because Charlie hasn't donated his DNA to the child's makeup that he has no rights or opinions.

The stepdad doesn't want control, he wants to be acknowledged! And why shouldn't he have a say in the child's welfare that he's raised? If I were him, I'd sure want some "control" in my life, too.

All right, off my soapbox now, I hope everything works out ok for the OP. I was not planning on posting on this thread anymore but since I am still quoted I would like to explain myself. I have past poster thinking my husband is not important or that I have some kind of horrible family. I love my DH vey much we have 2 children together and I have one from a previous marriage. What would happen if we divorced? What would happen if half the blended families divorced? It is not out of the rhelm of possibilities. We have a solid and happy marriage but so do most people and still 50% get divorced (more if previously divorced). So children from previous marriages should call the step parent dad (or mom)? They should think they are dad/mom if it has been a year or two or five? What happens if you get divorced? Do you think that you husband will pick up their ex stepchild with their bio child for visits? Would you want them to? Right now while you are in a happy marriage you say yes but what about when you are in the middle of a divorce? It is very unlikely to happen. The step parent has no biological or legal ties to that child. Of course no one likes to think about this and they say it can't ever happen to them and hopefully it won't. But do you really want your child to feel that this person they call dad or mom just left them? Now I know some of you think wow her marriage must be bad but actually the opposite is true. The one thing that I must do as a mom is be prepared for anything and make sure my kids come through it ok. It's not easy being a mom but then it is not a job I take lightly.

aka-mad4themouse
05-27-2007, 11:25 AM
At this point, I think that the OP's original question has been discussed and answered. Since it it begininng to wander away from the origianl topic, I'm closing the thread. My best wishes to the OP, her DH and especially to her DS.