What do you want?

[MarkBarbieri]

So what do you want in a camera that seems possible but isn't available yet? Obviously, we all want higher sensitivities with less noise, faster focusing, faster shooting, etc. What features do you want that no one seems to be providing yet?

Here are some of mine. Perhaps they already exist for cameras that I'm just not aware of.

1) I'd love a heads-up display in the viewfinder. Give me a little button that I can press to overlay the view with a realtime RGB historgram.

2) If you can't give me that, how about some simple exposure feedback that doesn't require that I look away from the viewfinder and squint at a sun bleached little LCD screen. Maybe a little "ding" when I've over exposed. Or how about a two little vertical lines representing black and white and have those flash up a % of over or underexposed pixels. Just give me some way of knowing that I've overexposed without having to look away from the viewfinder and I'll be happy.

3) OK, dust shakers didn't work out all that well. How about something like a windshield wiper for sensors?

4) How about a quick way to save a complete set of settings - exposure mode, drive mode, custom functions, metering mode, ISO, etc? I hate it when I leave the camera in spot metering mode and go off shooting like I was in evaluative metering mode. This would also be great for spouses who might be OK shooting with a pretty standard setup but don't know how to "fix" the camera if you've left on some weird options like 2-second timer or exosure compensation.

5) What ever happened to eye-control focusing? I thought it worked reasonably well back in the film days. Why can't I have that on a DSLR?

6) How about adding bluetooth? I'd like it to talk to my GPS so it knows where I am. I'd like it to send photos to a GPS backup drive in my camera bag. Even better, I'd like that backup drive in my bag to route those photos over the cell network to my server and/or website.

7) If you can capture to RAW+JPEG, why can't you capture to RAW and give me the option of exporting JPG or doing a post-capture conversion? Then I could shoot RAW all day and if someone wanted a quick JPG of one of my shots, they I could convert it for them.

8) Maybe this one is just a Canon thing, but why can't I see the darn ISO in the viewfinderwhile I'm changing it??? It's not that big of a problem, but I can't think of a reason why it blanks it out while I'm setting it. It doesn't do that with anything else in the viewfinder.

9) Rather than have to press a button to record audio associated with a picture, how about giving me a mode in which it just voice-activated records for 10 seconds after each shot. While I rarely ever use the sound recorder, I might use it more if it had an auto-record mode.

10) How about an auto-exposure mode that I can set to aperture, shutter, or ISO priority. The camera takes a shot, checks the histogram, adjusts the exposure, and shoots again all in rapid succession.

11) Let me create an ISO/Shutter/Aperture map for every lens. When in auto mode, pick the values I said that I preferred from the map. Even better, let me save them in sets. Post good defaults on your website for each of your lenses. Also give me combined modes, like aperture priority where it varies the shutter and ISO based on my map but leaves aperture alone.

12) The camera knows the date and the time. How about just using those for the filename instead of a number? 2007052316251623.CR2 gives me unique filenames that also have some meaning. I suppose you could also add a one character prefix or postfix for people doing multi-camera shoots.

13) Is it really impossible to have a built-in flash that can bounce? Couldn't it just swivel or something? I know the power would be a bit weak, but I still think it would be useful in not-too-dim light.

14) A lot of people swear by the expodisc. It's a device that you put over your lens, shoot the prevailing lighting, and use that shot for custom white balancing. They're cool, but costly. Some people just use the lid from a Pringles can. How come something like that can't be built in somehow?

15) Does anyone buy a high-end DSLR without getting an Arca-swiss quick-release mount for it? How about just including one with the camera?

[Master Mason]

14) A lot of people swear by the expodisc. It's a device that you put over your lens, shoot the prevailing lighting, and use that shot for custom white balancing. They're cool, but costly. Some people just use the lid from a Pringles can. How come something like that can't be built in somehow?

15) Does anyone buy a high-end DSLR without getting an Arca-swiss quick-release mount for it? How about just including one with the camera?

Why not make #14 your lens cap?

As for 15, I don't even know what it is, and my wallet tells me I probably don't want to know.

I would like to have the old split level focus screen that the film cameras used to have.

I would like weather sealing on consumer cameras

I would like for everything to cost less

And I want a 15-200 f/2.8 zoom that is the size of the 24-70 that is sharp at both ends and all ISO range that costs around $500 (thats not asking too much is it?)

[MarkBarbieri]

As for 15, I don't even know what it is, and my wallet tells me I probably don't want to know.

Alll of the ball heads that I can think of use a quick release plate. They standardized around the type used by Arca Swiss. You screw the plate into your camera and then you can just slide it into the tripod head, turn a quick screw, and it's locked in. I just about never take my plate off my camera.

[jann1033]

]Why not make #14 your lens cap?[/B]

As for 15, I don't even know what it is, and my wallet tells me I probably don't want to know.

I would like to have the old split level focus screen that the film cameras used to have.

I would like weather sealing on consumer cameras

I would like for everything to cost less

And I want a 15-200 f/2.8 zoom that is the size of the 24-70 that is sharp at both ends and all ISO range that costs around $500 (thats not asking too much is it?)

so you shoot through the pringles cap or hold it out and take a shot of it?..have seen those disks and think they are about $80? anyway more that i want to spend

i agree with the weather/dust sealing on all lenses and cameras

love mark's second idea about the exposure

really all i want is

a good lcd screen i can see with my transition lens glasses in the dark /outdoor sunglass mode...i can barely read the print as is and now have to either go without sunglasses or take off my glasses to read anything on the lcd screen.

and why does it all have to weigh a ton. can't they make a sturdy body that is lightweight so it doesn't make your neck break by the end of a day( and this is my rebel, wait till i get the heavier one)

i'm sure the rest of my list is on a camera i just can't afford;)

[woodlandsparty]

Probably not a highly rated feature for most....but I'd like to see Live LCD like will come out on the Mark III to be on all dSLR's....with a swivel LCD so I can compose shots at odd angles.

[KrazyPete]

14) A lot of people swear by the expodisc. It's a device that you put over your lens, shoot the prevailing lighting, and use that shot for custom white balancing. They're cool, but costly. Some people just use the lid from a Pringles can. How come something like that can't be built in somehow?

I've read about this but all the Pringle's can lids that I find are clear. Expodisks are a translucent white. So how do you do that with a Pringle's lid?

[DueyDooDah]

16) Why can't a quality lens be included as you first kit lens, at little at no added cost? Why do the manufacturers feel the need to soak their prospective customers right from the git-go? They have plenty of opportunity to do that after the initial purchase.

17) If not 16, how about including a polarizer lens or some other useful trinket.

18) If not 16 or 17, how about a lens hood?

As for Mark's comments, number 7 is HIGH on my list of wishes. I think I've even posted this before.

[GrumpyOne]

#7 is one of the reasons I selected the Pentax K10D, several reviews have indicated the capability. I'd be suprised if the ability isn't added to upcoming cameras like the Mark III since I'd be even more suprised if more than just a firmware upgrade would be needed.

Is #14 for manual white balancing? If so, I use something like that for diving. Many UW photographers use a slate, I cut up a white plastic container. haven't tried it for on-land photography though. Perhaps Tinksdad can add some here.

[MarkBarbieri]

#7 is one of the reasons I selected the Pentax K10D, several reviews have indicated the capability. I'd be suprised if the ability isn't added to upcoming cameras like the Mark III since I'd be even more suprised if more than just a firmware upgrade would be needed.

I wasn't aware that you could do that with the K10D. I knew that it could do RAW+JPEG, but you're saying that you can shoot in RAW and then choose, in camera, to convert a RAW image to a JPG later?

[GrumpyOne]

I can't say for sure until I'm back in the US in a couple of weeks but that's what reviews have indicated. For instance:

The second feature is in-camera RAW development. This feature allows to use RAW images without spending time using conversion software. The difference between capturing JPEG images and processing RAW-images in-camera is that white-balance, image parameters and sensitivity can be adjusted after capture.

http://www.neocamera.com/review_pentax_k10d_more.html

and

The K10D also lets you "develop" RAW images right in the camera, bypassing the need for a computer. You can adjust image size and quality, white balance, ISO, image tone, saturation, sharpness, and contrast before saving the file as a JPEG. Cool.

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/pentax/k10d-review/index.shtml

[AndrewWG]

I would like a camera to come with something other than a 16 or 32 MB card with it. Does anyone even use them? What can you get, like 10-20 pictures on them? It would cost them darned near absolutely nothing to include some sort of a quality card with the cameras, yet still they don't bother.

Andy

[ukcatfan]

6) How about adding bluetooth? I'd like it to talk to my GPS so it knows where I am. I'd like it to send photos to a GPS backup drive in my camera bag. Even better, I'd like that backup drive in my bag to route those photos over the cell network to my server and/or website.



This is the feature that I would love to have. The capability is already there, I guess it is just a matter of time before someone starts offering it (and cheap enough).

Down here in SW and Central FL, MetroPCS just started offering unlimited Internet on their $50/month unlimited everything plan, so that would even make it affordable for the uploads. Supposedly they recently added the entire Orlando area to their coverage area, but we have not visited since then to find out how good the coverage is from inside the parks.

Kevin

[tinksdad]

I like your #6, sending photo info to a storage unit!!

I would like more dyamic range. I did see this yesterday that might lead manufactures there.... (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7401) A new chip sensor that promises clear pictures with light as bright as the lighting from a candle 1 meter away in a dark room and is said to be 2,000 times more light sensitive than other sensor types. The will initially be used for camera phones, CCTV cameras and vehicle rear-view cameras.

sounds interesting.

[Groucho]

1) I'd love a heads-up display in the viewfinder. Give me a little button that I can press to overlay the view with a realtime RGB historgram.
I doubt we'll see that without full-time LCD live view and an EVF rather than an "analog" TTL view. They could probably overlay something, but it'd probably mean losing a lot of brightness for normal viewing.

2) If you can't give me that, how about some simple exposure feedback that doesn't require that I look away from the viewfinder and squint at a sun bleached little LCD screen. Maybe a little "ding" when I've over exposed. Or how about a two little vertical lines representing black and white and have those flash up a % of over or underexposed pixels. Just give me some way of knowing that I've overexposed without having to look away from the viewfinder and I'll be happy.
Well, even my humble DL has an exposure meter in the viewfinder when shooting in manual mode, up to +/- 3 stops. When in other modes, it will flash the "flash" icon in the viewfinder and on the top LCD when you're leaning towards underexposed (it shouldn't be underexposed, but will probably be blurry) and if you max out shutter speed when in Av mode (this is the only time I've seen where it needs to do this), it blinks the shutter speed. I would assume other DSLRs have the same thing. Theoretically, the non-Manual modes should never be over/underexposed as far as the camera itself is concerned, unless you've maxed out the shutter speed and aperture of the camera.

3) OK, dust shakers didn't work out all that well. How about something like a windshield wiper for sensors?
The danger being a dry wiper that may make a big scratch when sliding a particularly nasty piece of dust across the sensor... maybe something like a built-in rocket blower? Most dust seems to be removed with a few good blows with that; it'd be a lot easier than carrying around the full-size blower which doesn't really fit well anywhere, at least not in my bag.

4) How about a quick way to save a complete set of settings - exposure mode, drive mode, custom functions, metering mode, ISO, etc? I hate it when I leave the camera in spot metering mode and go off shooting like I was in evaluative metering mode. This would also be great for spouses who might be OK shooting with a pretty standard setup but don't know how to "fix" the camera if you've left on some weird options like 2-second timer or exosure compensation.
I did say that Pentax listened to photographers when designed the K10D. :teeth: It has a "user" mode on the dial, where you can save your own settings for instant retrieval later. I'm not sure if that would include metering mode, but it's a step in the right direction.

5) What ever happened to eye-control focusing? I thought it worked reasonably well back in the film days. Why can't I have that on a DSLR?
This is one that the Sony Alpha does; I think it's the only DSLR doing it but I could be mistaken.

6) How about adding bluetooth? I'd like it to talk to my GPS so it knows where I am. I'd like it to send photos to a GPS backup drive in my camera bag. Even better, I'd like that backup drive in my bag to route those photos over the cell network to my server and/or website.
Is there a standard for transferring files? :confused3 I know that some compact digicams can transfer photos wirelessly but I'm not sure the technique they use. Certainly this is something that will be coming, but I suspect that most of us will still use card readers since they'll be much faster.

7) If you can capture to RAW+JPEG, why can't you capture to RAW and give me the option of exporting JPG or doing a post-capture conversion? Then I could shoot RAW all day and if someone wanted a quick JPG of one of my shots, they I could convert it for them.
This was already covered by GrumpyOne; another K10D exclusive.

10) How about an auto-exposure mode that I can set to aperture, shutter, or ISO priority. The camera takes a shot, checks the histogram, adjusts the exposure, and shoots again all in rapid succession.
Well, there's no "right" histogram so the camera doesn't know. A good night shot will have probably have a ton of black, but it doesn't mean that it's underexposed... I think you need the human element to determine if a histogram is accetable or not.

11) Let me create an ISO/Shutter/Aperture map for every lens. When in auto mode, pick the values I said that I preferred from the map. Even better, let me save them in sets. Post good defaults on your website for each of your lenses. Also give me combined modes, like aperture priority where it varies the shutter and ISO based on my map but leaves aperture alone.
This sounds like the K10D's MTF mode, which I'm very much looking forward to. It varies aperture for maximum sharpness, even changing at different focal lengths for zoom lenses. You can't set it yourself, but chances are that you're going to want max sharpness anyway. You can also set the program-line to hi-speed or depth of field, as well as "normal".

This does work only with relatively recent lenses, of course. I don't think there's a way for you to add your own information but perhaps that's something for a later update.

12) The camera knows the date and the time. How about just using those for the filename instead of a number? 2007052316251623.CR2 gives me unique filenames that also have some meaning. I suppose you could also add a one character prefix or postfix for people doing multi-camera shoots.
Not a bad idea but I would want that as an option only and not the only way of naming. You can also use something like Irfanview to rename all your pictures to have the date in them (anywhere in the filename) if you want to do a quick batch rename after the fact.

15) Does anyone buy a high-end DSLR without getting an Arca-swiss quick-release mount for it? How about just including one with the camera?
I dunno. It's extra cost for the manufacturer, there's no incentive for them to do it, and not everyone needs one. I don't plan on picking up a second QR plate for my next body as I'll not be likely to switch bodies on my tripod. I also don't know that I'd want it on all the time - on my DL, the plate extends past the bottom of the camera, creating a sharp lip that I quickly got tired of bouncing off my body as I was walking around at WDW. Any tripod use necessarily involves a minute or two of fiddling, so I just decided to make attaching the QR plate part of that process; it's fairly quick and easy.

And since the QR tripod heads already will always come with a QR plate already, an extra one will really only be useful for not only people buying their second camera, but that will be using both on the same tripod in short succession.

16) Why can't a quality lens be included as you first kit lens, at little at no added cost? Why do the manufacturers feel the need to soak their prospective customers right from the git-go? They have plenty of opportunity to do that after the initial purchase.

17) If not 16, how about including a polarizer lens or some other useful trinket.

18) If not 16 or 17, how about a lens hood?
I believe Canon is the only company not including a lens hood with the kit lens. Both Pentax and Olympus have kit lenses that are generally considered pretty good lenses with no obvious cheapening relative to other lenses (ie, lack of focus ring, rotating front element, plastic lens mount, etc). Nikon offers a decent kit lens (18-135mm IIRC) with the D80.

Probably not a highly rated feature for most....but I'd like to see Live LCD like will come out on the Mark III to be on all dSLR's....with a swivel LCD so I can compose shots at odd angles.
Well, Olympus has been offering live-view LCD for a while, and Panasonic's DSLR has it as well. Both are 4/3rd system cameras. I'm not in favor of this because of the inevitable reduction in quality and brightness of the viewfinder, very important if you want to do manual focusing (or most anything at night.) I think the Mark 3 does it in a fancier way but I think you still lose a bit of functionality (AF, etc) when enabled... not positive, though.

A swing-out LCD sounds cool but necessarily means a smaller LCD - I've been lucky enough to always have a 2.5" LCD on my DSLR and I ain't goin' smaller! :teeth: I'll take an integrated 2.5" over a swing-out 2" any day. I wouldn't mind getting a 90' adapter for the viewfinder, though - I know they're out there.

My wishlist is more dynamic range (either through something like Fuji's dual-sensor-layer S3 Pro or just plain better sensors), I like the concept of the Foveon sensor but I want one without the baggage (noise, relatively low pixel count, etc), weight reduction is always good (sooner or later we'll all be carrying carbon fiber cameras), I'd love some sort of split-image and/or microprism viewfinder for manual focusing (something like the Mark 3's liveview with closeup center for fine focusing might be a good alternative)... most other stuff was covered earlier, or already exists, ie, it'd be nice to see more cameras have DNG format as an option as well as offer customizable program lines, ISO priority, and hyperprogram mode, all K10D exclusives I believe.

I think we'll eventually see the possibility of embedding GPS data into EXIF, if it doesn't exist already.

Oh, and how about the ability to keyword before the fact? Ie, if you're going on vacation, have all the pictures already store something in the metadata. Not a real big deal (easy to do later) but it might be useful.

[MarkBarbieri]

I doubt we'll see that without full-time LCD live view and an EVF rather than an "analog" TTL view. They could probably overlay something, but it'd probably mean losing a lot of brightness for normal viewing.
Don't even think about replacing my true TTL view for an EVF. I think something could done using a HUD without any noticeable loss in brightness.

Well, even my humble DL has an exposure meter in the viewfinder when shooting in manual mode, up to +/- 3 stops. When in other modes, it will flash the "flash" icon in the viewfinder and on the top LCD when you're leaning towards underexposed (it shouldn't be underexposed, but will probably be blurry) and if you max out shutter speed when in Av mode (this is the only time I've seen where it needs to do this), it blinks the shutter speed. I would assume other DSLRs have the same thing. Theoretically, the non-Manual modes should never be over/underexposed as far as the camera itself is concerned, unless you've maxed out the shutter speed and aperture of the camera.
The exposure meter is a before the shot estimate that attempts to show the best compromise exposure based on mode. I want to know whether I've blown anything out and by how much. Basically, I want the right and left edges of the histogram to show up in the viewfinder.

The danger being a dry wiper that may make a big scratch when sliding a particularly nasty piece of dust across the sensor... maybe something like a built-in rocket blower? Most dust seems to be removed with a few good blows with that; it'd be a lot easier than carrying around the full-size blower which doesn't really fit well anywhere, at least not in my bag.Blowing in a closed chamber is as likely to cause more problems as it is to cure them. Maybe we need a mini-vaccuum.

I did say that Pentax listened to photographers when designed the K10D. It has a "user" mode on the dial, where you can save your own settings for instant retrieval later. I'm not sure if that would include metering mode, but it's a step in the right direction.
Sounds like a step in the right direction. Canon's been mucking about with various "parameter groups." I don't know that any of them cover the things that I want, like exposure compensation, metering mode, and ISO. I just want a quick way to reset the camera to a baseline, especially for when my wife picks it up.

The K10D also lets you "develop" RAW images right in the camera, bypassing the need for a computer. You can adjust image size and quality, white balance, ISO, image tone, saturation, sharpness, and contrast before saving the file as a JPEG. Cool.
That is cool. It's not something that I think I'd use often, but it would still be nice to have. It's in that category of "why the heck can't I do that???"

Well, there's no "right" histogram so the camera doesn't know. A good night shot will have probably have a ton of black, but it doesn't mean that it's underexposed... I think you need the human element to determine if a histogram is accetable or not.
While there is no "right" histogram, there is an optimal capture exposure for most photographs - as bright as possible without blowing anything out. While there are times that you'd prefer to blow things out and capture more shadow details, those are the exception rather than the rule. Take the shot, figure out how much room I have on the right before I blow out a user selectable percentage of pixels, and reshoot. There are times that I could go all day without looking at the histogram if it did that for me.

This sounds like the K10D's MTF mode, which I'm very much looking forward to. It varies aperture for maximum sharpness, even changing at different focal lengths for zoom lenses. You can't set it yourself, but chances are that you're going to want max sharpness anyway. You can also set the program-line to hi-speed or depth of field, as well as "normal".
That's a step in the right direction, but it's still not what I want. I want to define my own maps based on different scenarios...portrait shooting, action shooting, etc. Sort of like customized "spouse" modes. Maximum sharpness ignores too many variables like desired DOF, acceptable noise levels for the shooting conditions, and subject motion.

I dunno. It's extra cost for the manufacturer, there's no incentive for them to do it, and not everyone needs one. I don't plan on picking up a second QR plate for my next body as I'll not be likely to switch bodies on my tripod. I also don't know that I'd want it on all the time - on my DL, the plate extends past the bottom of the camera, creating a sharp lip that I quickly got tired of bouncing off my body as I was walking around at WDW. Any tripod use necessarily involves a minute or two of fiddling, so I just decided to make attaching the QR plate part of that process; it's fairly quick and easy.
I agree that it's extra cost and should not be included with most bodies. On the high end though, I think just about everyone gets them. The plates I'm talking about don't come with the tripods because you typically by one custom made for you camera body. It's the fact that it's a universal mount that's customized for the body that makes me say that it should come with the body.

The same thing goes for long lenses with lens mounts. You know we're going to by the darn plate, so ship with it.

lack of focus ring
Is someone really selling a lens without a focus ring?

Probably not a highly rated feature for most....but I'd like to see Live LCD like will come out on the Mark III to be on all dSLR's....with a swivel LCD so I can compose shots at odd angles.
I'm OK with that in concept, but I'm waiting to actually play with "Live View" before I decide if I want it.

My wishlist is more dynamic range
We all want that...that's why some of us buy Canon. :thumbsup2

all K10D exclusives I believe.
Can't resist a chance to sell, can you? I'll leave off the list of Canon exclusives...don't want to bog down the server. ;)

I think we'll eventually see the possibility of embedding GPS data into EXIF, if it doesn't exist already.
You can already embed GPS data into EXIF. I use a program called RoboGeo to do it. It works by synching the GPS trail log with the photos by time. It's OK, but a solution where the camera just asked the bluetooth enabled GPS for the location in realtime would be nicer.


19) I'd also like a computer interface for setting all of the functions on the camera. In particular, I'd like to be able to go through the entire list of custom functions and have pop-up help explaining the setting and why I might want each of the values. Of course, it should be wireless as well.

20) I want a proximity charger for my camera. When I put it away at night, it should charge itself without my having to do plug anything in. My electric toothbrush does this, why can't my camera?

[ukcatfan]

20) I want a proximity charger for my camera. When I put it away at night, it should charge itself without my having to do plug anything in. My electric toothbrush does this, why can't my camera?

I learned about this from one of our electrical engineers at work. It is called inductive charging. It is generally too hot, too slow, and creates a fairly large magnetic field, so it is not useful for many products. It would probably damage the camera. It is usually just used on bathroom devices.

Kevin

[Groucho]

Don't even think about replacing my true TTL view for an EVF. I think something could done using a HUD without any noticeable loss in brightness.
I dunno. It's a pretty solid path with nowhere to inject more info without inhibiting light. It's not like a HUD on a car, where it's basically just doing a "Pepper's Ghost" on the windshield. Perhaps something could be worked out. This would be low on my list, though - my eyes hurt if I look through a viewfinder too long, mostly because of closing my other eye (and if I leave the other eye open, it can be distracting sometimes), so I don't mind taking my eye away from the viewfinder. Also, a viewfinder is pretty small to read the fine details of a histogram.

The exposure meter is a before the shot estimate that attempts to show the best compromise exposure based on mode. I want to know whether I've blown anything out and by how much. Basically, I want the right and left edges of the histogram to show up in the viewfinder.
Well, if there was an EVF, it might be able to blink the over and underexposed parts of the image for you. :) But I agree, an EVF is not desirable. But again, I think it's just not possible for the camera to decide what it and isn't desirable for a correct histogram - especially if you want it to show high/low parts of all three channels. It's probably easiest to just take a test shot and look at that.

Is someone really selling a lens without a focus ring?
The kit 18-55mm Canon and Nikon lenses (and I think the kit 18-70mm Sony/Minolta) don't have real focus rings, you just turn the entire front of the lens. (Hence the problem with CP filters.)

We all want that (more dynamic range)...that's why some of us buy Canon. :thumbsup2
Well, if you really want it, you get a Fuji S3 or S5 and use Nikon lenses. :teeth:

[MarkBarbieri]

I dunno. It's a pretty solid path with nowhere to inject more info without inhibiting light. It's not like a HUD on a car, where it's basically just doing a "Pepper's Ghost" on the windshield. Perhaps something could be worked out.

I don't see why they can't do that. I'm sure that there's a good reason or they would alreday be doing it. I just want it.

I don't like having to look away from the viewfinder. If I'm just taking a single shot, it's no big deal. If I'm in the middle of shooting a bunch of shots of something going on, I want to keep my eye glued to the viewfinder and minimize "downtime" while still confirming exposure.

The kit 18-55mm Canon and Nikon lenses (and I think the kit 18-70mm Sony/Minolta) don't have real focus rings, you just turn the entire front of the lens. (Hence the problem with CP filters.)

OK, so it's just a semantics quip. I guess I missed it because of the redundant complaint of having a "rotating front element", you were being redundant. I thought someone was actually selling a DSLR that couldn't be focused by turning a ring on the lens and required that you use AF or some sort of button setup, kind of like the way P&S lenses work.

[Groucho]

Re: focus ring, I'm going by how reviewers often refer to it - most seem to not consider it a "real" focus ring as you're just rotating the front of the lens manually, not using a dedicated, separate ring. Feel free to adjust my original statement to "real focus ring". :)

For the viewfinder, if you want to add something to it, you need to have somewhere to inject it into the viewpath. You're already using a mirror and with many camers, a solid prism in there to get the light from the front of the lens to the viewfinder - there's nowhere to reflect extra information in (like Pepper's Ghost)... you would need some transparent LCD, which would cut down on brightness. Or put an extra piece of glass in the middle of the light path (between mirror and prism) at a 45' angle and put a very small LCD there that will be reflected in the glass and viewable in the viewfinder - but again, you're going to have a slight reduction in brightness and possibly clarity as well, and maybe even a little distortion from the light passing through the angled glass.

Well, that's the way I understand it at least... I don't build these things so many a camera engineer may have a better idea. :)

[jann1033]

actually the canon s5 has a 2.5 swivel angle lcd, so wish they could put something similar on a dslr ....it would be nice for macro especially since i have a hard time ramming my head into a tree fork to take a shot and see through the eyepiece on occasion. even if it had to not be ttl somehow, i'd like it as a secondary way to view something sometimes

and not to put it down but this does baffle me, just by looking at the b& h catalog so maybe it isn't totally accurate in somethings, the thing i find strange with pentax is why put all the stuff someone maybe would rarely use in a camera with a burst speed of 3fps and a shutter speed of only up to 1/4000? why not upgrade basic things before off the wall things. like they have as one of the top features ( in B&H) being able to "instantaneously switch from program to av or tv, with a simple turn of the electronic dials"...hello, that takes all of a tenth of a second to turn my dial one notch now:confused3 ....jmho but it probably would keep me from ever buying into the system since personally i'd rather have the better burst and shutter and not a couple bells or whistles i might or might not like anyway. maybe my lack of "more bells/whistles" mentality is why i don't have a lot on my "what i want on my next camera list";):)

[JR6ooo4]

I'm easy... I just want a firmware upgrade for spot metering on my old XT.

Mikeeee

[Groucho]

The problem with the swivel LCD is that if you do make it bigger, you chew up real estate very quickly. Look at the back of the S5 - no buttons on the left side, only a few on the right, and the 4-way controller pushed right to the very edge of the body. I don't think a serious DSLR user would be satisfied with such an arrangement. Granted, a DSLR body is bigger, but I still think that you're inevitably going to lose too much room for the buttons you'll want.

As for your comments about the Pentaxes... Well, different strokes for different folks. Seriously - how often do you ever need faster than 3 fps continuous shooting or faster than 1/4000th shutter? (Assuming you're not a pro sports shooter.) IMHO, those are far more "on paper" things for the measurebators to fawn over than things that the average photographer really needs. The Nikon D80 that costs $150 more than the K10D does the same fps speed and fewer RAW (6 vs 9) or JPG (100 vs unlimited) files in a row and also tops out at 1/4000th second max shutter, but I don't hear those being brought up all the time as a deficiency of the camera.

For "big important" features, I think in-body image stabilization is a pretty huge one.

The "instantly change" ("Hyperprogram") is a very handy feature IMHO - basically, it means that you never need to spin the mode dial if you're going to stay in program, Av, or Sv mode. Leave it in program (with whichever line you've selected), and the instant you want to flip to Av or Sv, just spin the front or rear dial. On every other camera, you'll have to spin the mode dial (which probably means taking the camera away from your eye to look at the dial), then the appropriate front/rear dial, and spin it back when you're done (pressing the green button on the K10D returns to program mode) - that's one of those things that just makes it quicker and easier for the photographer. There's a bunch of such unique features, which is why the K10D got so much attention when announced, even in the C/N camps. Most are not earth-shaking but "gee, that's handy" kind of things. They had been asking photographers what they would like and they integrated many of the suggestions.

Does this mean that it's the best camera for everyone? Of course not. But that's why I believe that they made the choices that they did make, and hopefully it makes a little more sense to you after that.

There will be two new Pentax DSLRs later this year, at least one is almost guaranteed to be positioned above the K10D, and I'm going to guess that it's a safe bet that you'll get your faster shutter speed and fps with it, as well as most other features of the D200, for a bit less money than the Nikon. But that's just speculation at this point - the point is, the stuff you mention is stuff that is just not available on any sub-$1k camera. You can get a 30D with that fps and max shutter speed, for $300 more - that's 40% more expensive... and the D200 is more than twice the price. You have to keep price in perspective.

[MarkBarbieri]

The "instantly change" ("Hyperprogram") is a very handy feature IMHO - basically, it means that you never need to spin the mode dial if you're going to stay in program, Av, or Sv mode. Leave it in program (with whichever line you've selected), and the instant you want to flip to Av or Sv, just spin the front or rear dial. On every other camera, you'll have to spin the mode dial (which probably means taking the camera away from your eye to look at the dial), then the appropriate front/rear dial, and spin it back when you're done (pressing the green button on the K10D returns to program mode) - that's one of those things that just makes it quicker and easier for the photographer.

I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying that in Program mode (the mode where the camera determines the aperture and shutter speed), you can override the camera and force a change to the aperture by using the rear dial or force a change to the shutter speed by using the front dial and in either case the camera changes the complimentary control to fix the exposure?

how often do you ever need faster than 3 fps continuous shooting or faster than 1/4000th shutter?
I don't think I've ever "set" a shutter speed over 1/2000. It'd be a very rare situation for me to need that much motion stopping capability. I have taken 1/8000 second shots before though. The situation is usually when I'm in very bright light and shooting very wide open to control DOF. My camera loses some dynamic range stepping down from ISO 100 to ISO 50, so I'd prefer to increase shutter speed first rather than drop ISO. It's not very common though.

High fps, on the other hand, is a big part of why I bought my camera and I don't shoot pro anything. There are two uses that I've found for it that come up a lot. The first use is catching "the moment." If you are trying to catch a precise moment (cannon blast, ball leaving a bat, golfer making contact with a ball, etc), your chances increase with your fps. Those things are critical to pro sports shooters, but they are also important to parents with kids in little league, soccer, ice skating, or anything else where they are moving around a lot.

The other case is "sequence" shots. There are situations where it is fun to have a whole series of shots showing on quick burst of action. I've done shots of people jumping off of cliffs, golfers swinging, the guy jumping off the roof at the motor sports show, and many others. I talked to a professional high school sports shooter (such people really do exist and boy do they hate it when DSLR'd amateurs show up) and he said that good sequence shots are best money makers.

[Groucho]

I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying that in Program mode (the mode where the camera determines the aperture and shutter speed), you can override the camera and force a change to the aperture by using the rear dial or force a change to the shutter speed by using the front dial and in either case the camera changes the complimentary control to fix the exposure?
That is absolutely correct as I understand it, however you can program which dial does which, of course (completely customizable for each mode.)

I don't think I've ever "set" a shutter speed over 1/2000. It'd be a very rare situation for me to need that much motion stopping capability. I have taken 1/8000 second shots before though. The situation is usually when I'm in very bright light and shooting very wide open to control DOF. My camera loses some dynamic range stepping down from ISO 100 to ISO 50, so I'd prefer to increase shutter speed first rather than drop ISO. It's not very common though.

High fps, on the other hand, is a big part of why I bought my camera and I don't shoot pro anything. There are two uses that I've found for it that come up a lot. The first use is catching "the moment." If you are trying to catch a precise moment (cannon blast, ball leaving a bat, golfer making contact with a ball, etc), your chances increase with your fps. Those things are critical to pro sports shooters, but they are also important to parents with kids in little league, soccer, ice skating, or anything else where they are moving around a lot.
I can understand the appeal of higher fps (although I do think that it's almost "cheating" by machine-gunning shots hoping for the perfect one, this is the same reason I still used my old pump-action paintball gun last time I played, when every else had semi-auto guns :) )... and I certainly agree about shutter speed. But again, I think Jann is being slightly unfair here, giving the D80 a free pass and perhaps forgetting just how affordable the K10D is compared to the competition - nobody offers 5 fps in a current model close to that price - and 8 fps or 10 fps is a long way off, monetarily speaking!

Doesn't matter, though, I still love ya, Jann. :thumbsup2 :lmao:

[MarkBarbieri]

I think Jann is being slightly unfair here
I think Jann's just trying to get your goat.

I do think that it's almost "cheating"
I cheat in any way possible to get my shot.

That is absolutely correct as I understand it, however you can program which dial does which, of course (completely customizable for each mode.)
I'm still a little confused. If the camera controls the exposure, don't both dials do the same thing? If you lower the shutter speed, it raises the f-stop. If you raise the f-stop, it lowers the shutter speed. I think I'm missing something.

[GrumpyOne]

I have to agree with Mark about getting the shot any way possible. The burst mode is one of the features I really like about my Oly. Being able to go out and get action shots and a lot of the players really liked getting copies of themselves stealing, shooting, etc. They aren't exactly high-rez since the 15 fps caps at 1.2MP but considering the available options it's extremely nice to have for personal and community use.

[Groucho]

I think Jann's just trying to get your goat.
Baaaaaaa!

I'm still a little confused. If the camera controls the exposure, don't both dials do the same thing? If you lower the shutter speed, it raises the f-stop. If you raise the f-stop, it lowers the shutter speed. I think I'm missing something.
Turning one of the dial puts it in full Av or Tv mode, depending on which dial you have set, not just make an adjustment to the current aperture/shutter selection. Just like turning the mode dial. Pressing the green button returns it to normal program mode.

Here's a clip from the PDF attached to the latest firmware notes for the K10D, these shots may help explain it.

http://www.totalsham.com/pics/main.php/d/8462-1/K10D-hp.png

Curiously enough, its twin, the Samsung GX-10, has uglier menus but more information (in the top pic, it actually shows the setting, not a number - the K10D expands it when you change it but not at a glance) and in the second pic, instead of Program Shift, there's ISO. It looks like the new Samsung firmware (just released) mostly duplicated the older K10D firmware, but adds one or two new things - currently you hold down the OK button and spin the dial to change ISO (during which it's displayed in the viewfinder and top LCD, like you want), I would guess that another K10D firmware will add the Samsung's functionality to the Pentax as well.

[MarkBarbieri]

OK, I think I kind of get the drift.

With my camera, there isn't a dedicated mode switch. I switch between P/Av/Tv/M/Bulb mode by pushing the mode button and turning the front dial. In M, the front dial controls shutter speed and the rear dial controls aperture. In P/Av/Tv, the front dial controls program shift, aperture, or shutter speed respectively while the rear dial controls exposure compensation.

The basic control philosophy is to have the major things that you need to switch all controlled by the main (front) wheel. You press one or two of three buttons and rotate the wheel. One button is for exposure mode, another for AF mode, and another for metering mode. There are combinations for ISO, drive speed (which includes timer), and bracketing. It's really confusing at first, but once you get use to it, it's quick.

I think I've read that the Mark III replaces the two button combos with single buttons that you press multiple times. It sounds strange to me, but I'll trust that it's an improvement.