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View Full Version : Now they say 7.00 gas


gilby
05-21-2007, 09:45 AM
They say it will take 7.00 a gallon gas for Americans to stop driving? What do you think?
7.00 gas, we won't be doing anything.

momz
05-21-2007, 09:49 AM
i've changed my driving practices already and it's "just" $3.29 now. if it reaches $7 :scared1: , i'll be walking.

happygirl
05-21-2007, 09:49 AM
If gas ever gets to 7.00 a gallon ((which I don't think it ever will)) I don't think anyone will be doing anything

lillygator
05-21-2007, 09:50 AM
wow --- I better dig out the bike in the garage!

StephMK
05-21-2007, 09:51 AM
Yikes, it will take a lot less than $7 for me to quit driving! We're already cautious at the current prices. DH is going to ask a co-worker about carpooling & I'm going to look for a job close to home this fall. I'm a little nervous about our road trip this summer though!

dodukes
05-21-2007, 09:53 AM
yeah no kidding, at i alreayd am cheap as can be with what i do, at 7.00 i will be buy ing me a metro pass!!! bus ways here i come!! lol

mjbaby
05-21-2007, 09:59 AM
Who is "they"?

I think the real key is that our entire way of life will need to be retooled, so to speak. All the reasons people have for not driving less are geared to maintaining our lives as they have been in the last 10-15 years or so - the kids with activities in opposite directions, the jobs far away from the houses we bought so we could have bigger houses (or buy a house at all), all of the stuff we've bought to put in those houses...it all requires petroleum that's going to be much, much more expensive in the years to come before it becomes less available at any price.

So I think the question is not how much are we willing to drive less, but how much less of everything are we willing to do and buy, to be healthy and happy? Can we get to know our neighbors better (I have friends who have lived in an exurban neighborhood for 5 years know and have a passing relationship with only one family - but this is what our current economic system allows, and I don't think it's uncommon at all) and build truly localized communities where we grow food, teach our children, and pass handmedowns along instead of selling them? In other words, reduce waste and "extra" across the board.

Will Disney become a once-in-a-lifetime thing as it once was? Perhaps - but is this so terrible? Will our kids once again be willing to spend an afternoon "collecting" rocks and not be bored? Will families spend time together more and be busy less (did you hear about the home builder who admitted that one of his home designs was intended for families the members of which couldn't stand each other?) to talk, read, play games?

Not everything to come from $7+ gas will be bad. I think it's up to us what the experience will be.

kelleigh1
05-21-2007, 10:00 AM
I'm not saying that we will see $7, but as another thread has already proven, some people will not change the way they drive no matter what and that is just one reason why we will see the price continue to rise.

The main problem is that we have just become far too reliant on oil and gas for our transportation needs. There need to be alternatives. And we all need to realize that these supplies are not unlimited. We can't continue to use and use and use and still expect it to always be there.

mjbaby
05-21-2007, 10:06 AM
I'm not saying that we will see $7, but as another thread has already proven, some people will not change the way they drive no matter what and that is just one reason why we will see the price continue to rise.

The main problem is that we have just become far too reliant on oil and gas for our transportation needs. There need to be alternatives. And we all need to realize that these supplies are not unlimited. We can't continue to use and use and use and still expect it to always be there.

Word, kelleigh!

I remember Amy Dacyczyn pointing out in one of her books that if one were willing to live in the style of, say, the 1960s - smallish house, one phone, no endless amount of gear and stuff - one's money problems may well dissolve.

I think this situation is analogous. Not only would our money problems begin to resolve, but the gas pricing would be a lot more stable. The thing is, not only do we want to "party like it's 1999" but so does the rest of the world - and petroleum supplies and the earth itself simply cannot support that.

ilovejack02
05-21-2007, 10:11 AM
I didnt attend a birthday party yesterday that was about 50 mins from my house because of how much gas is. I think we are at about 3.05 a gallon by my house and I drive a Expedition. My ds4 and I will be sticking very close to the house this summer.

WendyisDarling
05-21-2007, 10:26 AM
$7 to change seems high to me. I have heard $5 in the past, but I don't know. I think it would make more people who must drive consider hybrid vehicles.
The $3 mark does it for me. My vehicle is over two years old and I only 17,000 miles on it. Most of that is from a few long trips. I'm a SAHM so I can get away with it. We are so super lucky, too...DH's company moved to a new location less than two years ago and it just happened to be 3.5 miles from our house! :thumbsup2
DS goes to special ed. extended school year. By law they must provide transportation. I usually decline the service and drive him myself, but not this year. When they asked if I wanted it, I said yes.

MrsNick
05-21-2007, 10:36 AM
I don't think $7 is on the horizon in the near future. As powerful as the oil lobby in this country is, the other members of the ruling class (who supply goods and services to Americans either via wholesale or retail) won't allow that. They want their piece of the pie, and right now, $7/gal gas would cut into their chunk way too much. JMO.

kelleigh1
05-21-2007, 10:42 AM
The idea of a Hybrid is a good concept, however, I've read that you don't really see the benefits of the fuel efficiency for several years. Wish I could remember why that is. The other problem is that the price for a Hybrid is still fairly high for many people.

There are also many people out there who still feel they need to drive monster SUV's. I've actually heard some (women especially) who say that they drive the big SUV because they feel safer than if they were in a small car and basically one person's attitude was "too bad, I'm still going to drive it". To me, that is just selfish because everytime someone adopts the attitude that they have the money to drive the big SUV and fill the gas tank, they are contributing to the problem and making it that much harder for those of us who can't afford to fill our tanks anymore.

branv
05-21-2007, 10:47 AM
Another take on it is how unwilling so many companies are to allow telecommuting. Despite great technology that makes going to the office every single day obsolete in many instances, it's still considered very risky. DH works for a computer company where he could easily work 2-3 days from home (and on days that he has to, he gets more work done b/c he's not constantly interrupted by people coming by to chat). Do you know how often he spends the entire day just on conference calls? Yet his boss, his boss' boss, right up the chain don't support telecommuting. Though strangely, the higher up you get, the more often they are out of the office traveling and don't ever see their employees...but they still want them centrally corralled. They convince themselves their workers will work harder if someone is looking over their shoulder, but as all of us have experienced either personally or by watching coworkers, it is still VERY easy to get away with doing very little (just look stressed out anytime someone comes by your desk ;) ). Sadly, if companies would just do what they should have ALWAYS been doing, which is set and track measurable and specific goals to be met for each employee, this would not be a problem.

Personally I've worked for 3 HR departments. Once in a while they informally look into the benefits/costs of telecommuting and offering carpool benefits. But anytime someone really made the effort to push it, upper level execs always killed it. I'm no longer shocked out how short-sighted executives are. They don't look at long-term cost savings of a great benefit like tele-commuting (not to mention the increased ability to recruit top talent). Even when presented with clearly defined numbers showing that eventual savings will easily outnumber initial cost, they can't handle it...which I think says a lot about what is wrong with corporations today anyway. We're a disposable-minded society in more ways than one.

goofyforlife
05-21-2007, 10:52 AM
I remember Amy Dacyczyn pointing out in one of her books that if one were willing to live in the style of, say, the 1960s - smallish house, one phone, no endless amount of gear and stuff - one's money problems may well dissolve.


It's nice to dream...I look at my GP's who raised two kids in a small row house under 700 sf. (no garage, 1 bath)

I do agree that we should attempt smaller houses...Unfortunately smaller doesn't make as much money as 5000 sf homes with pricey add-ons so developers don't build any.

Some stuff i could live without.... But some things..our lifestyle is just geared not to do without....(like washers/dryers, cell phone)

I wish i could use public transportation more but they don't have routes into my neighborhood. (There is one route about 1.5 miles down the road but they only run during daytime hours and not when i need one to get to work)

Heck my own daughter's HS will be 3 miles away from our house with no public transportation avail for her for after-school activities..

nbodyhome
05-21-2007, 10:58 AM
I don't believe it'd need to get nearly to $7.00. Other prices (like food, heating oil, etc.) go up with gas prices, so other areas would be taking a pinch too.

I'd say $4.00, $5.00 - I can't imagine more than that!

WendyisDarling
05-21-2007, 11:27 AM
Another take on it is how unwilling so many companies are to allow telecommuting. Despite great technology that makes going to the office every single day obsolete in many instances, it's still considered very risky. .

DH is senior IT management and will allow people to work from home for a day or two here and there, but when anyone asks to work exclusively from home, he has to tell them that if that were possible they're job would be India.
No flames, please. Not his choice. Just the way it is.

DawnM
05-21-2007, 12:15 PM
DH and I both work and need to drive to get there. Right now we spend about $200-$250/mo. on gas alone.

Next year I get mileage for my job. I don't know exactly how much they will pay (ie: just from one school to the other or all my driving) but it will certainly help.

We have commuter cars that get around 35-40mpg and that helps too.

Dawn

punkin
05-21-2007, 12:31 PM
All I can say is OUCH!!!

I think I need to get my bicycle out. I hear you never forget how to ride one.

Oreo Cookie
05-21-2007, 12:40 PM
All I can say is OUCH!!!

I think I need to get my bicycle out. I hear you never forget how to ride one.

I hope I can find my bike. I think it's in the garage somewhere.

mommiepoppins
05-21-2007, 12:48 PM
well if my dh stops driving then we get 0 $ so we are then broke. I try to plan around my driveing. I try not to go back and forth. My dd head hurt her and the school wanted me to bring her tylenol ( school is 11 miles away) I just picked her up rather than bring her tylenol and then later have to come back and pick her up. I would love to drive my kids to school however it would cost me so much, so therefore they can take the school bus:confused3. I would love to plan day trips with my day care kids thei summer ,but I can not afford the gas

fla4fun
05-21-2007, 01:04 PM
The idea of a Hybrid is a good concept, however, I've read that you don't really see the benefits of the fuel efficiency for several years. Wish I could remember why that is. The other problem is that the price for a Hybrid is still fairly high for many people.

There are also many people out there who still feel they need to drive monster SUV's. I've actually heard some (women especially) who say that they drive the big SUV because they feel safer than if they were in a small car and basically one person's attitude was "too bad, I'm still going to drive it". To me, that is just selfish because everytime someone adopts the attitude that they have the money to drive the big SUV and fill the gas tank, they are contributing to the problem and making it that much harder for those of us who can't afford to fill our tanks anymore.

There was an interesting news article along these lines over the weekend, that said per gallon demand for gasoline is up, even though the miles driven in the country have gone down. Although they didn't seem to have an explanation for it, I think it's all the gas guzzling vehicles on the road.

I just bought a new car last year. I did a lot of research into the hybrids, but gas would have had to be at least $10 per gallon for the next ten years minimum for me to break even. So I didn't get one. I did get a car rated for 37mpg and with conservative driving, I'm squeezing 41mpg out of it. Living in Florida, I wish they would develop some kind of solar powered transportaton. I'd be all for that!

I've negotiated a 4 day workweek, with non peak driving times to minimize sitting in traffic. I can't really change my living situation right now, and there aren't any good paying jobs close the house. I don't go out on my days off either. I'm lucky that Disney is close by, and I like vacationing there. I can't even imagine what the cost of a road trip would be these days!

minnie1928
05-21-2007, 01:33 PM
I did get a car rated for 37mpg and with conservative driving, I'm squeezing 41mpg out of it.

I'm doing the same thing, I have a car rated for 38 and I'm getting 42. I've become very aware of how much pressure I put on the gas pedal. Scaling back the slightest bit on the pedal can have a surprising impact. I've also been coasting as much as possible. I still go with the flow of traffic, but if it's just me on the road then I usually go a little slower. I also make sure that my car is as empty as possible, no trunks full of junk here!:rotfl:

patsal
05-21-2007, 01:42 PM
My wages wouldn't cover the commuting costs, and where I live getting to work using public transport is not possible.

jayally
05-21-2007, 01:55 PM
I have to drive for my job and as gas increases I find myself getting a little resentful. I am reimbursed .48 cents a mile which is the govenment rate and supossed to cover maximum insurance coverage, gas, wear and tear and maintenance costs. They raised it to .52 one time and then back down and gas was not as expensive then as it is now. I am in CA. Gas last night was $3.29 at a 76 station and $3.39 across the street at mobil. I don't understand why the prices flucuate so much from station to station. I have to drive 100 miles round trip today and my half tank will be almost empty again. I can't keep putting $57 every few days and they wait 2 weeks for my expense check to help cover the cost. I have heard some people exaggerating their miles to help cover the cost more.

I have not been driving as much as I used to for pleasure. I am 45 mins from DL and we have not gone as much this year because it takes a lot of gas. :sad2:

kelleigh1
05-21-2007, 02:05 PM
One thing we haven't really heard anyone talk about is car pooling. Does anyone do it anymore?

When I was a kid, my Dad owned a 12 passenger van and he picked up several co-workers every day for work.

Is car-pooling even possible in this day and age? I would think that there has to be a way that some of us could car-pool to save on gas.

I just really feel that we all need to be held accountable. We (and I'm included in this too) blame the government and the oil industry and everyone else, but we find ways to justify our own usage. We should be looking for ways that every single one of us could make even just one small change in our habits to held cut down on consumption.

I would love to find someone else that I could commute to the train station with, but so far, I haven't found anyone in my neighborhood who travels at the same time that I do.

And we are renting a car for our Disney trip at the end of the year. I've been wondering if I should make friends with other couples at our resort during our stay and offer to take them along with us to whatever park we're heading to that day. Maybe I should just drive by the bus stop and ask who is heading to the same park.

MrsPete
05-21-2007, 02:18 PM
I don't think $7 is on the horizon in the near future. As powerful as the oil lobby in this country is, the other members of the ruling class (who supply goods and services to Americans either via wholesale or retail) won't allow that. They want their piece of the pie, and right now, $7/gal gas would cut into their chunk way too much. JMO.I agree with this. Too many other businesses realize that if gas goes up, and we can't afford to drive/buy goods, THEY will hurt. Gas and politics are closely tied together.

However, I also agree with those that say we need to give up some of our driving; we've become primarily a nation of consumers, and we bypass many things that were taken for granted in the past. This is much to our detriment, and it's showing in our bodies, our divorce rate, our children's detachment from one another, etc.

The key is moderation -- not something that we American like. Instead, we want the biggest, the best, the fanciest, with all the bells and whistles; unless, of course, you're talking about cell phones or ipods -- in that case, we want the smallest with the most features. But we want THE MOST of everything. It's not realistic.

hannah03
05-21-2007, 02:21 PM
I don't believe it'd need to get nearly to $7.00. Other prices (like food, heating oil, etc.) go up with gas prices, so other areas would be taking a pinch too.

I'd say $4.00, $5.00 - I can't imagine more than that!

I agree but anything's possible ;)

MrsPete
05-21-2007, 02:22 PM
I've negotiated a 4 day workweekI think we'd all benefit from more creative ideas like this. I'd love to see kids go to school four days/week, though it'd be very difficult for the youngest ones because the school day'd have to be extended . . . and it'd be difficult for the older ones because they'd have to take home more homework to complete the same amount of material in a semester. But it'd cut the school's transportation costs by 20%, which sounds pretty good to me.

gilby
05-21-2007, 02:31 PM
We are only showing our kids how to live on credit.
My DH and I ride together to work one has to wait an hour before or after work. We need to become a more simple society and things will change. We don't need to have all the electronics to live a happy life. In fact it creates more problems. We can only blame ourselves for all the increases in prices. My DH and I like to enjoy life, but we both work full and part time to enjoy the extras in life. We pay for every trip in cash, no charging up credit cards. We live in a home that is 30 plus years old, don't need the high house payments. We have a boat and truck also paid for. We teach our kids they pay for their car, car insurance, their own gas, and also class rings. They think twice about do I need this new shirt. They don't see their parents charging everything because their friend got a new outfit, I need one mom.

TravelinGal
05-21-2007, 02:32 PM
I'm already almost completly homebound. If it hits $4 a gallon, we'll limit all travel to within 10 miles of our home and even those trips will be limited.


RE Hybrids - not sure why y'all are saying the cost more. :confused3
I'm looking at a Mercury Mariner Hybrid (est. 31mpg city) and it's coming in at $27K. That's on the LOW end of average for a SUV. The monthly payments are coming in abou $98 less than what we're paying now for my Durango.

No, I WON'T get rid of my SUV. I will have a SUV of some sort. I DO feel safer in it. Period. It's not about keeping up with the Joneses - It's about being safe from all the Joneses who drive THEIR tanks and don't care about anyone else. (See it a LOT in Denver area) It's not that I don't care. I also have a bad back and bending over to buckle DS in his carseat in a standard car KILLS my back. In the suv, he can climb in and I reach straight in to buckle him in safe and sound.

mjbaby
05-21-2007, 02:35 PM
We are only showing our kids how to live on credit.
My DH and I ride together to work one has to wait an hour before or after work. We need to become a more simple society and things will change. We don't need to have all the electronics to live a happy life. In fact it creates more problems. We can only blame ourselves for all the increases in prices. My DH and I like to enjoy life, but we both work full and part time to enjoy the extras in life. We pay for every trip in cash, no charging up credit cards. We live in a home that is 30 plus years old, don't need the high house payments. We have a boat and truck also paid for. We teach our kids they pay for their car, car insurance, their own gas, and also class rings. They think twice about do I need this new shirt. They don't see their parents charging everything because their friend got a new outfit, I need one mom.

Gilby - it sounds like you're giving your kids a very sensible upbringing. Kudos to you and your husband!

DawnM
05-21-2007, 02:40 PM
I carpooled for several years. There were 5 of us who lived near each other in Pasadena and we all worked at the same high school in LA.

I just got a job here in NC and I won't be able to carpool as I will be servicing 4 different schools. But they will reimburse for mileage and I will be taking the 40mpg car.

DH can't carpool or take the rapid city bus because of his hours. He works projects and often has to stay until the project is complete. I WISH they would have an office closer to us as a Satellite office!

Dawn


One thing we haven't really heard anyone talk about is car pooling. Does anyone do it anymore?

When I was a kid, my Dad owned a 12 passenger van and he picked up several co-workers every day for work.

Is car-pooling even possible in this day and age? I would think that there has to be a way that some of us could car-pool to save on gas.

I just really feel that we all need to be held accountable. We (and I'm included in this too) blame the government and the oil industry and everyone else, but we find ways to justify our own usage. We should be looking for ways that every single one of us could make even just one small change in our habits to held cut down on consumption.

I would love to find someone else that I could commute to the train station with, but so far, I haven't found anyone in my neighborhood who travels at the same time that I do.

And we are renting a car for our Disney trip at the end of the year. I've been wondering if I should make friends with other couples at our resort during our stay and offer to take them along with us to whatever park we're heading to that day. Maybe I should just drive by the bus stop and ask who is heading to the same park.

dobball23
05-21-2007, 02:43 PM
One thing we haven't really heard anyone talk about is car pooling. Does anyone do it anymore?

When I was a kid, my Dad owned a 12 passenger van and he picked up several co-workers every day for work.

Is car-pooling even possible in this day and age? I would think that there has to be a way that some of us could car-pool to save on gas.

I just really feel that we all need to be held accountable. We (and I'm included in this too) blame the government and the oil industry and everyone else, but we find ways to justify our own usage. We should be looking for ways that every single one of us could make even just one small change in our habits to held cut down on consumption.

I would love to find someone else that I could commute to the train station with, but so far, I haven't found anyone in my neighborhood who travels at the same time that I do.

And we are renting a car for our Disney trip at the end of the year. I've been wondering if I should make friends with other couples at our resort during our stay and offer to take them along with us to whatever park we're heading to that day. Maybe I should just drive by the bus stop and ask who is heading to the same park.

My wife is a high school teacher and she carpools with a co-worker. They have been doing it for two years now and it seems to work out well for them. I ride my bike to work (about 3 miles) during the summer months when I am less busy and the weather is nice. It is great exercise and really only takes me 15-20 minutes at most. I think I have driven 12 miles total in the last week.

Todd

DawnM
05-21-2007, 02:45 PM
I am not sure who you are preaching to here.

We do the same....not the carpool part because we don't work near each other, but DH and I don't live on credit at all. We do DR all the way. BUT, we still have to get to work. I am not sure how this fits in with the topic of gas prices.

Dawn


We are only showing our kids how to live on credit.
My DH and I ride together to work one has to wait an hour before or after work. We need to become a more simple society and things will change. We don't need to have all the electronics to live a happy life. In fact it creates more problems. We can only blame ourselves for all the increases in prices. My DH and I like to enjoy life, but we both work full and part time to enjoy the extras in life. We pay for every trip in cash, no charging up credit cards. We live in a home that is 30 plus years old, don't need the high house payments. We have a boat and truck also paid for. We teach our kids they pay for their car, car insurance, their own gas, and also class rings. They think twice about do I need this new shirt. They don't see their parents charging everything because their friend got a new outfit, I need one mom.

mjbaby
05-21-2007, 02:52 PM
I am not sure who you are preaching to here.

We do the same....not the carpool part because we don't work near each other, but DH and I don't live on credit at all. We do DR all the way. BUT, we still have to get to work. I am not sure how this fits in with the topic of gas prices.

Dawn

Dawn, it fits in with gas prices because transportation is only a piece of the oil-using pie. Look around yourself right now - the chair you're sitting on required petroleum for its manufacturer, as did the computer you're using, the clothes you're wearing, the food you ate for lunch and so on. Now, no one is suggesting that you need to sit naked on the floor staring into space to lower gas prices, but incorporating that awareness into out thinking will go a long way toward guiding us to a solution.

Part of that is to reduce how much stuff we buy, toss, build and use. Gilby's point is relevant because we as a society have leveraged ourselves to to the hilt so that we could cycle through mountains of stuff (all of which used oil in production) - if people were more content with what they could buy without the "benefit" of credit we might have a more sustainable economy and social structure right now, including lower gas pricing.

kelleigh1
05-21-2007, 02:57 PM
Robin:

It's not just the initial cost of the Hybrid. It's also the maintenance. When I bought my last car, I did a good deal of research and everything I read pointed out that the Hybrid's cost more overall between purchase price and maintenance.

I'll also address your SUV since your response seems to be geared toward my earlier post. First (and this is where I wish tone came through in email because this may sound harsh when it's not really), you mention the "feeling safe" issue of the SUV. If everyone who drives an SUV because they feel safer while competing against the other SUV's on the road started driving smaller vehicles, I suspect that the smaller cars would once again take over the roads. Second, I do applaud the fact that while you will continue to drive an SUV, you are making a conscious effort to find one that is not such a gas guzzler. And again, if all the big SUV drivers made this same change, we'd see an improvement.

My point in all of this is that if every single person made even just one small change, we could see a drastic improvement. But as a society, we've seemed to adopt the "me" concept where we only focus on what we want for ourselves and for our family and don't look at the big picture and how the things we do affect the whole world and then when the result ends up effecting us negatively, we turn the blame onto everyone else instead of realizing that we contributed to the problem too.

bsmcneil
05-21-2007, 02:59 PM
slightly off topic but similarly minded - will gas go down monday or tuesday (after the holiday)? i need to fill my car up and i don't know if i should do it now or after memorial day. i don't need to drive anywhere this week or most of next - but next friday, i have a long trip from IL to NC.

kelleigh1
05-21-2007, 03:05 PM
slightly off topic but similarly minded - will gas go down monday or tuesday (after the holiday)? i need to fill my car up and i don't know if i should do it now or after memorial day. i don't need to drive anywhere this week or most of next - but next friday, i have a long trip from IL to NC.


Last year, I thought waiting until after Memorial Day would mean a decrease in price. I was wrong and if I remember, it went up again before it went down. I'd buy now.

Faerie
05-21-2007, 03:05 PM
I drive a Neon which has okay millage. The Civic was out of my price range when I was buying a car. I'm paying almost $40 a tank (12 gallon) here in South Florida to fill up. A tank lasts just over a week since once I'm home, I'm home. My BF does more of the driving than I do, although that should probably change since I get FAR better millage than he does

WendyisDarling
05-21-2007, 03:06 PM
slightly off topic but similarly minded - will gas go down monday or tuesday (after the holiday)? i need to fill my car up and i don't know if i should do it now or after memorial day. i don't need to drive anywhere this week or most of next - but next friday, i have a long trip from IL to NC.

Glad you brought up the holiday increase. Wonder if it will go up more as the week comes to a close? I need to get gas and should probably do it soon and not in the middle of the holiday.

kydisneyfans
05-21-2007, 04:39 PM
Our economy is built on the ability for people to move around freely and to move goods at a reasonable cost. At some point, we will cross that line and the economy will slow, maybe even go into recession. Wal Mart is already stating they will not meet earnings estimates, which means the lower wage earners are already cutting back. That will trickle down as time goes on. I think the breaking point around here is somewhere between 3.50 and 4.00 a gallon. We are around 3.10 now.

I have a job where I am reimbursed based on gas price, right now it is about .35 a mile. I have an older model Saturn that will get 37 mpg on the highway. It is enough to cover gas in both vehicles. I do not fudge mileage numbers to get reimbursed more, my job is more important than an extra 5 bucks on the paycheck due to a gas price increase.

We just need to be smart in our travels. This to shall pass.

momof2inPA
05-21-2007, 05:22 PM
Heck my own daughter's HS will be 3 miles away from our house with no public transportation avail for her for after-school activities..

Do you "expect" that? Our school busses (and no public busses go to the schools) only run directly before and after school, and parents are responsible for their kids after that. That's the way it's always been. Seems fine to me.

mickeysaver
05-21-2007, 06:17 PM
I am hoping to become much more comfortable on my motorcycle, so that I can start taking it to work. I have a Ford Focus ZX3 and it's good on gas, but if gas continues to rise to $5 or more a gallon, I am going to be forced to ride my Vulcan. Maggie

runwad
05-21-2007, 06:24 PM
I hope I can find my bike. I think it's in the garage somewhere.

I need to buy a bike :rotfl:

kelleigh1
05-21-2007, 07:12 PM
I need to buy a bike :rotfl:

Me too, then hubby can take it to work and I can take it on those quick trips to the grocery store where I'm buying stuff that I could throw into a backpack.

happygirl
05-21-2007, 07:37 PM
a little of topic gas went down here 5 cents :cool1:

hinodis
05-21-2007, 09:31 PM
I guess I will be moving to Mackinac Island. There are no cars there. Just bikes, horses and walking.

jennifer293
05-21-2007, 11:18 PM
I guess we are pretty much SCR#$ED because we have 2 monster SUV's..I have a GMC Yukon XL and DH drives a Ford Expedition. Getting something smaller for us is not an option because DH is a coach and we tote kids all year around including our own. We average about $500.00 a month in gas alone because the school he coaches at is 30 minutes away from our house. I have brought up the fact that the $$$ he makes coaching does not even begin to cover his expense of gas, but I get the ol' " Well I LOVE IT, so I am not giving it up"......I love sugar too, but the dr. told me I had diabetes and I don't eat it anymore..:rotfl2: Men can be so difficult sometimes..God love them!!!!

Faerie
05-22-2007, 09:14 AM
gas has gone up another 7 cents overnight here. This is crazy

ducklite
05-22-2007, 09:30 AM
It's nice to dream...I look at my GP's who raised two kids in a small row house under 700 sf. (no garage, 1 bath)

I do agree that we should attempt smaller houses...Unfortunately smaller doesn't make as much money as 5000 sf homes with pricey add-ons so developers don't build any.


I don't think that's a fair assumption. We built our current home with a ton of energy saving options, and use less power now in a 2900+ s/f home than we did in a 1600 s/f home. Our pricey add-on's were more often than not energy saving items--better insulation, a radiant barrier in the roof, eight ceiling fans, a heat pump for the A/C, etc.

You're making some very general assumptions which are not at all true in many cases.

Anne

ducklite
05-22-2007, 09:33 AM
If gas goes to $7 a gallon I'll leave the roadster home more often and use my sedan instead--it gets 10 mpg better mileage. I've been thinking about trading it in for a VUE Greenline, which gets about the same gas milage (36 mpg) but will instead look at a Prius which gets 50 mpg--that's what DH already drives.

Anne

Disneefun
05-22-2007, 11:24 AM
I agree that we as individuals need to change our consumption. I'm already to the point where I go up to a week without going anywhere in the car so I think I've just about done what I personally can. But what steams my clams is the unnecessary usage I see in local, state and federal governments.

We live in a smallish subdivision, but yet the school buses come into the subdivision, drive all the way through and stop at each kid's driveway. The bus could make one stop at the front -- it's not far for the little darlings to walk that far. There are lots of subdivisions in our area that are the same way and they bus goes into every one, stopping at each driveway. Is that necessary? How much gas could be saved by eliminating the mileage driven in all those areas?

Do we, as a country, really need Saturday mail delivery? How much gas would we save by eliminating Sat. delivery?

When state officials travel to a conference, why do they each get to take a state car? Why can't they form up carpools and put four in each car, since they're all going to the same place, for the same event?

Why do the cops drive 80+ MPH around here on the Interstate when they're not responding to a call (at least I assume they're not since the lights aren't flashing). If you 're responding to a call, turn on the lights. If not, slow down and maximize your MPG (same goes for individuals, but that's another story).

Why does the guy who reads our water meter drive the whole route, stopping at each house and getting out of the truck to take the reading? Why can't he park at the top of each street and walk? Yes, I get that it saves time for him to drive, but we're nearing the point where time/convenience is going to have to become a secondary concern, not the primary concern.

The list goes on. I could also rail against businesses I see wasting gas, but that's another topic. I just get frustrated that we, as individuals, get told to conserve, conserve, conserve -- and some of us do -- but the governments seem to go merrily on making no changes. If the govt. would take some changes, they could really help make a big difference in the demand for gas and, as a result, the prices.

It's going to take all of us working together as individuals, governments and businesses to change the way we live and ease our dependence on oil. Individuals can only do so much -- we need help.

chicagodisneyfan
05-22-2007, 11:37 AM
Well according to the news last night, Chicago has the highest gas prices in the US. I had to pay $4.19 a gallon last night.

In the big scheme of things, gas prices will not affect my consumption. But I only drive to work. I walk to Target - which has a double savings attached to it - I can only spend what I can fit into my wheeled cart and wheel home. I can walk to the lake, park, beach and several museums. I take a bus or a cab to most restaurants. I walk to Nordstrom and Neiman Marcus. I take public transportation to things like - white sox games, cubs games, airport etc. It is rare for us to even get in the car on weekends.

My grocery store will deliver, or I use Peapod.

I love living in the City

runwad
05-22-2007, 12:48 PM
What I don't understand is how they can jump more than 30 cents at a time? I can see a nickel a dime but 30 cents? This morning my DH called said go fill up I got gas at 3.13 but right across the street it's 3.49. So I went right out at 11:15 and filled up my car at 3.16. We have a conversion van that we park and only use for travel or weekends and I needed gas in that too and figured I'll go out again when I pick up my DS from Kindergarten at 11:50 well got to the gas station at 12:04 it was 3.49:scared1: Luckily there was another down the street that hadn't went up yet and was still 3.16 but now they are all 3.49.

jennifer293
05-22-2007, 01:09 PM
I had to run to the pharmacy yesterday for Zyrtec (major need right now)and when I passed the gas station it was $2.84....10 minutes later passing it again it was up to $3.06 that is RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!:scared1:

hydster
05-22-2007, 01:33 PM
Thankfully I don't drive far at all in my gas guzzling *I'm the reason why you are paying more at the pump* SUV. :rolleyes: My tank fill up of 25 gallons will last me at least 6 weeks sometimes 8-9 at a time. I don't work, kids walk to and from school, grocery store is a couple of blocks away and DH works 13 blocks from home. I just looked at my gas receipts for the last year from Dec 2005 until Dec 2006 when I bought my Armada. In that year I paid $576 and some change for gas for my car for the entire year. That averages to $11.00 a week so no I don't feel bad driving my SUV and there are times when it is a nightmare on the roads with snow that I need to get my parents to the doctor or the hospital and so I continue to drive it.

mickeyfan2
05-22-2007, 02:22 PM
I am not seeing the jumps here many are stating. The station near my home went up only 5 cents from 5/11 until a few minutes ago.

DawnM
05-22-2007, 02:39 PM
Actually, I wouldn't mind one of those little electric cars for around town driving (which includes work).

dawn

theycallmered
05-22-2007, 02:54 PM
yeah no kidding, at i alreayd am cheap as can be with what i do, at 7.00 i will be buy ing me a metro pass!!! bus ways here i come!! lol


Not to pick on you specifically but... Why not buy that metro pass now?

For our little family I am able to walk to work and Hubby either takes public transportation to school or rides his bike. We maybe use a car 3 or 4 times a week.

swandiverpatt
05-22-2007, 03:11 PM
26 miles to work ..... I seldom drive anywhere that isn't on the way home (stop for groceries, etc.) We're within 5 miles of a Kohl's and Super Wal-Mart, Publix is 2 miles from the house. Target/Home Depot/K-mart are probably 6-7 miles.

I'm an admin. at Disneyworld, so could not go to 4 10-hour days (but I'd jump on this if it were offered!)

I'm afraid I bought my last less than $3.00/gallon of gas this morning. Race-trac near my office (which is usually the cheapest around) was $3.05. Marathon across 192 was $2.99, so I looped around and filled my tank (though it was just 6 gallons). I'm filling up approximately every 6 days (when I lived in Indiana, I filled up every 2 weeks!)

I drive a Kia Spectra and it gets 26-29 MPG. I'm seriously considering buying a Prius in the fall.

dawnball
05-22-2007, 03:39 PM
Not to pick on you specifically but... Why not buy that metro pass now?


We don't do public transportation here because

a) the buses are unreliable (we've had DH's bus be more than an hour late on the way home, and when you call the bus depot they say "We don't know if the bus is coming at all, we may just pull it when it comes by the station")
b) they burn more gas per mile traveled than if everyone riding the bus drove their own SUV.
c) the per-rider subsidy is higher than if they purchased taxi fare for every rider.

Now, b and c are partially due to low ridership, but A is unacceptable for public transportation. When you are at the bus stop at 6, and the 6:10 bus, the 6:15 bus, the 6:30 bus, the 7:10 bus and the 7:15 bus fail to show up - you don't get repeat riders. :)

However, DH does bicycle to work 3-4 days a week now (40 mile roundtrip) and my goal for the summer is to do all trips within 10 miles of the house via bicycle.

bord1niowa
05-22-2007, 06:54 PM
We're in Iowa and many people have to drive an hour to get to work, at highway speeds. The only other choice is a job that pays little more than minimum wage. High gas costs will affect the people least able to afford it too. Those making 100K may grumble, but those making 20K will hurt. I still don't see the reason for the gas being as high as it is, since oil is not as high as it has been recently, yet the cost of gasoline significantly higher. It's high because we don't have a choice. Something is worth whatever someone else is willing to pay. Look at housing in some areas, why does a 1000 square foot house cost $350,000? Other areas it's $80,000. I can't wait to hear the excuses why the oil companies will have all time high profits...yet again.

samanthacatangel
05-22-2007, 08:02 PM
I just paid $3.44 here in NYC. Ugh. Good thing I limit my driving.

My DH does use mass transit and he has a 2 HOUR commute daily (up to 2.5 on a bad day.) He drives his little commuter car (Geo Metro 45 mpg) to the Staten Island train, takes the SI Ferry to the NYC subway every day. Part of the reason he does this is because his job pays for a monthly Metrocard which, unfortunately, does not include Express buses (buses that go directly from Staten Island to Manhatten.) And most people do not drive into the city because you cannot park, and it would take forever to get there anyway.

Mayor Bloomberg is also trying to pass Congestion pricing, which would have any car/truck going below 96th St (I believe) extra $$ to help eliminate congestion. Less traffic may = less gas consumption!

Living where I live, the mass transit is nowhere near as good as in the other boroughs, and you must have some sort of car. I do have a fuel efficient one myself, but I am certainly in the minority, especially if you are at my daughter's preschool in the morning - it is an army of SUV's!! And you should see all of the Hummers here too - I see them daily.

Samantha

kellia
05-22-2007, 08:12 PM
Well, my dh has to drive 100 miles a day just to find a decent paying job here in Michigan, so it'd better not get that high! We don't have public transportation. Also can't move closer because the economy stinks so bad no one would buy our house, and we couldn't afford those closer to the Detroit area anyway.

Geez, why are we here in Michigan at $3.69 and others are down near $3?

kellia
05-22-2007, 08:13 PM
I guess I will be moving to Mackinac Island. There are no cars there. Just bikes, horses and walking.

LOL! :rotfl2: True, but there are also no jobs to go to/from most of the year! ;) And I'd hate to see what houses cost there! :scared1:

alikat99
05-22-2007, 10:20 PM
Well, I do drive one of those "gas-guzzling" SUVs and for now, that won't change. While I would LOVE to get a new, smaller, more effecient car, I don't have a car payment on this one, and can't afford a car payment for now. So, I try to limit my driving, combine trips and because of gas prices, we cancelled a summer driving vacation. Also, I did not put my girls in any summer day camps, because along with the cost of the camps, I would have had to add in the cost of gas to drive them to and from the camp. So, we're staying home this summer and keeping our outings close to home.

photo_chick
05-22-2007, 10:30 PM
I stopped driving a lot out of need last summer. I am a SAHM so I I go through like a tank a month for me. DH has to commute about 60 miles round trip every day though. That gas bill has been hurting a lot lately. We are right around $2.95 here right now.

photo_chick
05-22-2007, 10:39 PM
I don't think that's a fair assumption. We built our current home with a ton of energy saving options, and use less power now in a 2900+ s/f home than we did in a 1600 s/f home. Our pricey add-on's were more often than not energy saving items--better insulation, a radiant barrier in the roof, eight ceiling fans, a heat pump for the A/C, etc.

You're making some very general assumptions which are not at all true in many cases.

Anne

I second this. My home is the same size as my in-laws but we built it in 2000 and there's is circa 1960. Our electric bill is lower than thiers mostly I think because we have newer more energy efficent appliances and better insulation, etc. We also run mroe electricity using things than they do (more computers, gadgets, extra fridge, use the a/c more) Our bill is way less than my parents much smaller and older house was. That house was full of drafts and had poor insulation. Of course my bill being less means it topped out at only $600 last July. I know people who had bills over $1000 that month.

graygables
05-23-2007, 11:20 AM
It wasn't THAT long ago that $3-$4 was the "I'm not gonna drive" cutoff. WE have allowed ourselves to be conditioned by the media managed by a political news cycle. Within a few days of the sensational headline, "Gas Could Top $3!", gas topped $3. NOT because of real problems, but because they could get away with it since the collective American mind had been conditioned to it. We are accepting higher prices in the supermarket because we've been told to expect them. We will have higher electric bills this summer because we've been told to expect them. NOT because there is any truly valid reason, mind you. If gas had gone to $3 without the "warning", the outcry would have been HUGE rather than the "ouch, oh well" attitude that it has been. It really is a huge psychological game the gas companies/government/media are playing and we fall for it.

That said, we live in a rural area. Hubby is a contractor and we have yet to find a reasonably priced, decent gas consuming pick up truck that can haul what he hauls. I drive only when necessary in my minivan, which is also a necessity to pull the trailer I need for my business doing scrapbooking shows. DH gets 12MPG, I average 13 with the trailer. Gas prices are killing the middle and working class. $7 gallon, we'll have to stay home and collect food stamps.

It's time for citizens to DEMAND that the government step in and protect us from the gouging going on at the pumps. Perhaps a class-action lawsuit might be in order. Something has to be done rather than just blindly accepting it.

ducklite
05-23-2007, 12:14 PM
I second this. My home is the same size as my in-laws but we built it in 2000 and there's is circa 1960. Our electric bill is lower than thiers mostly I think because we have newer more energy efficent appliances and better insulation, etc. We also run mroe electricity using things than they do (more computers, gadgets, extra fridge, use the a/c more) Our bill is way less than my parents much smaller and older house was. That house was full of drafts and had poor insulation. Of course my bill being less means it topped out at only $600 last July. I know people who had bills over $1000 that month.

:scared1: My summer electric bills are generally in the $250 range, my gas bill is constant at about $40 year round. If you don't ahve a radient barrier in your roof, look into getting one installed. Our house was completed in 2004, and the radient barrier has paid for itself already!

Anne

swandiverpatt
05-23-2007, 12:39 PM
:scared1: My summer electric bills are generally in the $250 range, my gas bill is constant at about $40 year round. If you don't ahve a radient barrier in your roof, look into getting one installed. Our house was completed in 2004, and the radient barrier has paid for itself already!

Anne


We're outside of Clermont too -- built our house in 2005 and put the radiant barrier in the attic. Seemed like a logical thing to do!

ducklite
05-23-2007, 01:37 PM
We're outside of Clermont too -- built our house in 2005 and put the radiant barrier in the attic. Seemed like a logical thing to do!

Isn't it great! I hear my neighbors AC units going constantly, and mine runs now and then, almost never during the day. :goodvibes

We figured it would pay for itself in 5-7 years, instead it's paid for itself in under three! :thumbsup2

Anne

Purrrrfecta
05-23-2007, 01:55 PM
It wasn't THAT long ago that $3-$4 was the "I'm not gonna drive" cutoff. WE have allowed ourselves to be conditioned by the media managed by a political news cycle. Within a few days of the sensational headline, "Gas Could Top $3!", gas topped $3. NOT because of real problems, but because they could get away with it since the collective American mind had been conditioned to it. We are accepting higher prices in the supermarket because we've been told to expect them. We will have higher electric bills this summer because we've been told to expect them. NOT because there is any truly valid reason, mind you. If gas had gone to $3 without the "warning", the outcry would have been HUGE rather than the "ouch, oh well" attitude that it has been. It really is a huge psychological game the gas companies/government/media are playing and we fall for it.


It's time for citizens to DEMAND that the government step in and protect us from the gouging going on at the pumps. Perhaps a class-action lawsuit might be in order. Something has to be done rather than just blindly accepting it.

You are absolutely right! My only question is where is the government going to get the money to support this war? We are supplying the oil companies with the way in to pump what they need by way of military troops who are controlling what is going on in Afghanistan and Iraq. We did make a big to do when Clinton was in office. I remember the prices soaring to $2, and then they gradually went down.

dodukes
05-23-2007, 02:06 PM
Not to pick on you specifically but... Why not buy that metro pass now?

For our little family I am able to walk to work and Hubby either takes public transportation to school or rides his bike. We maybe use a car 3 or 4 times a week.

I know you werent picking but I wanted to answer your questions anyway.

I have thought many times about buying a metropass, unfortunately theres a few reason I dont. a) its too expensive, its about $60-70 a month and thats about my gas consumption a month for strictly work driving, well slitghly higher now, not sure, but lets figure about 20 a week. cux i would only be able to use the pass for work. b) our trasnporation system in miami sucks, theres some good to it and some bad, luckily where i live now its very doable for work but when i lived at home, it wasnt, it wuld have taken like 3 buses and a rail to get to where i work now. c) it takes just as long if not longer to get to work on the bus that it does for me in my car (i drive about 6.5 mile to work).

I have ridden my bike to work, i have done it a hanful of times. Its not too bad except that people dont respect cyclists and its a danger on the roads i have to take. In miami, the sunshowers come and go as they please, i dont mind getting wet in the afternoon on way home but again drivers dont care about you. I cycle normally so its not like i dont know what im doing on the road but people with their suvs are very incosiderate and cram you out of the lanes of the road. (even tho in florida i am considered a vehicle on my bike and have just as much right to occupy a lane of trafic as that suv). Lastly, when you have to work in office clothes, it takes a haul to bring all the stuff you need and then if its too hot, you stink all day (we have no showers or anything, altho i have thought of wipes).

I really do enjoy bking to work, its not to bad and its rather enjoyable on the way home. Its funny cuz when i went to spain during the xmas holidays, i loved that public transportation was so convenient and accesible. If it was run taht way here, i would do it in a heartbeat.

The other reason i wont commit to a pass unless it gets outrageous, is that two days out of the week i dont go home after work and id have to take my car anyway, so i dont see the savings in taking the bus/rail combo on 3 days and having to pay as much. I understand the global benefits..lol..but at this point its just not convenient for me.

kelleigh1
05-23-2007, 02:23 PM
its about $60-70 a month

I'd love to pay $60-70 a month for my T pass (Boston's version of the Metro). Mine is $186 per month and that's since I moved closer. They went up in price back in February and I moved in March. If I was still riding from the old place, I'd be paying $235 per month.

If I drove, it would cost me a lot more since parking in Boston is ridiculous and then the gas and the wear & tear on the car too.

mrsbornkuntry
05-23-2007, 02:37 PM
Does anyone else think we'll see an emergence of more "main street USA" type towns, where everyone knows everyone and you're within walking distance of everything you need? I grew up this way, my Mom didn't have her driver's license so every Monday we would walk to the bank and run other errands. On grocery day we pulled a WAGON to the store, I rode in it on the way there, then walked back home after we shopped. We grew a garden (in town), had a cherry tree and raspberry bushes so we was common for my Mom to send me across the street to Mrs. X with a bowl of cherries or whatever, they would wash the bowl, then send me back homem or send me back with baked goods. My Dad would walk to work during the winter because he hated to drive on the icy roads. We may have been a minority because my parents were older (my mom was 44 when she had me).

My point is that this way of life is much more frugal, I really think it's a lack of a sense of community that keeps us from living this way. People (me included) hardly know their neighbors anymore. It's a shame.

kelleigh1
05-23-2007, 02:52 PM
Does anyone else think we'll see an emergence of more "main street USA" type towns, where everyone knows everyone and you're within walking distance of everything you need? I grew up this way, my Mom didn't have her driver's license so every Monday we would walk to the bank and run other errands. On grocery day we pulled a WAGON to the store, I rode in it on the way there, then walked back home after we shopped. We grew a garden (in town), had a cherry tree and raspberry bushes so we was common for my Mom to send me across the street to Mrs. X with a bowl of cherries or whatever, they would wash the bowl, then send me back homem or send me back with baked goods. My Dad would walk to work during the winter because he hated to drive on the icy roads. We may have been a minority because my parents were older (my mom was 44 when she had me).

My point is that this way of life is much more frugal, I really think it's a lack of a sense of community that keeps us from living this way. People (me included) hardly know their neighbors anymore. It's a shame.

I grew up in a similar town. My mother didn't drive until she was 28. My Dad did drive and worked nights, so there was no car available during the week. We walked home from school once we got into high school and took the bus before that. We walked all over town. I was fairly well known for walking around town...not in any bad way, but people used to see me a lot because I'd walk to the library or down to the corner store.

And like you, now, I don't even know my neighbors. I lived in my last place for 8 years in a small city and didn't know anyone else in the neighborhood and barely said hello to the people who lived in the same house. We moved a couple months ago to back to a town and to me it feels much like my hometown. And we're really going to start walking a lot more places, although there is only so much we can do in town - but maybe limited our choices will help us cut back on spending even more.

tedhowe
05-23-2007, 03:24 PM
I'm really not a conspiracy theorist, and I don't mean to even say that there is an industry/government conspiracy to manipulate gas prices in relation to congressional elections, but take a look at this graph:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/wrgp/mogas_home_page.html

The left edge (oldest data) is just a week after the 2004 presidential/congressional election. Gas prices continued to coast down during the typical late fall/early winter lull when auto travel is at its lowest and home heating oil consumption hasn't really ramped up yet. That's the last time gas was under $2.00 a gallon. Then there is a rise to the mid $2.20 to 2.30 range (about 20%+ increase from the low)... then Katrina hit and prices spiked. After refineries got back on line, in conjunction with the winter lull, prices settled back down - but at the $2.30 range instead of the $1.90 range from a year before.

Now, here's where it gets interesting... in the spring of '06, prices skyrocketed up to the $2.90 to $3.00 level. Last summer there were a lot of people complaining about gas prices and about the cost of living impact.
As these complaints started to get louder, and the polling data suggested the November '06 elections would be bad for the republicans, gas prices started to ease off - a month or more ahead of the usual slackening of demand in the fall.

The conspiracy theorist in me says that the oil companies were reducing their margin (lowering their short term profit in exchange for removing one of the potential threats to sympathetic lawmakers on Capitol Hill).

Again, the price bottomed out just about the week before the election, and stayed low (albeit at the new higher "low" of $2.20 to $2.30) through late January. This spring, the seasonal run-up has taken place earlier than it has historically - and has been steeper than ever before.

I think that there are a couple of things at work here...

1. I DON'T think there was collusion between the lawmakers in power and the oil companies last fall - I am enough of an idealist to think that something so blatant would not be going on. I DO think that the oil executives "enlightened self interest" could have made them decide to take a hit on quarterly profits in order to ease oil prices early in advance of the election - if there was ever a year they could afford to do so, it was 2006 when they had record profits earlier in the year. Did this happen? I don't know. I have no evidence to suggest it did, but the timing of the large movements in the pricing just seems odd to me.

2. I think that Katrina and last summer have shown the oil companies that there is more demand at the higher $3.00 - $3.50 price point than they could have expected - demand didn't slack off as much as nearly everyone thought it would. Based on that, I think the companies are now establishing a newer, higher benchmark in both the low prices and the high prices of annual fluctuations in oil prices - this is in many ways normal business practice.

3. Having said all of that, the DEMAND side of this equation is the problem. Just like the war on drugs - all of the regulation, intervention, etc. of the supply side will not solve the issue. We need to address demand for fossil fuels.

We are trying to do whatever we can to address this in our family - we switched to 100% wind generated electricity from our power company, we are lobbying to have our school district change the school bus fleet over to bio-diesel, and I am seriously considering giving up my Passat Wagon for a Prius.

Ted

CoPirate
05-23-2007, 03:35 PM
I have news for you...

If the price of gas goes up that much, expect EVERYTHING that gets delivered to your house, or to a store to go up as well.

I think mjbaby had it right.

IluvKingLouis
05-23-2007, 04:08 PM
I just bought a new car last year. I did a lot of research into the hybrids, but gas would have had to be at least $10 per


I'm not sure why these numbers are coming up so off? :confused3 We bought a Prius 10 months ago. We paid 25K, and a comparable/non hybrid Civic or similar would have been in the 15-17 range. However, we got 7K back in State and Federal taxes...it was a straight refund, not a tax credit. That brought us into the 18K range, so 2-3K more then a Civic. We're getting 50mpg, as opposed to 35, so 40% better fuel economy. We figured our breakeven would occur at 2.5 years assuming gas at 2.50. Now that gas is about $3.50 in our area our breakeven will be sooner. We tend to keep our cars for 10 years plus. We are also finding our routine maintenances to be much less then with a traditional engine. I think the electric engine (gas asssist) is a much cleaner system, then gas alone.

I should also add, DH telecommutes and I'm a SAHM and I do a little website design from home. So if we were commuters, our breakeven would hit even earlier.

Now I'm not sure if there is a tax incentive at this time, but if not, we should certainly make sure they hear us loud and clear in Washington! People should recieve a financial incentive to go this route.

dodukes
05-23-2007, 04:37 PM
I jsut looked it up its actaully $75, i didnt realzize this was on the cheap side compared to your $184..WOW!!

IluvKingLouis
05-23-2007, 04:46 PM
Ok, I'm done with my Prius love-fest:rotfl2: but I would like to say this is a great thread and very thought provoking. It reminds me of the Voluntary Simplicity movement. There is a fanastic book out there called "Affluenza: The all consuming epidemic." It really makes you think about choices you make everday.

In response to the posters nostalgic for an old fashion neighborhood experience, Co-Housing is starting to really make it big. It''s something I'm quite intrigued with.

staceyfe
05-23-2007, 06:03 PM
ILuvKingLouis--do you mean to say that you received a $7000 tax incentive just because you bought the Prius? If you got a $7000 combined refund that included a prius tax incentive, that is totally different than getting a straight $7000 prius refund. Does that make sense? Just trying to figure out if your refund was $7000 more because you bought a prius.

I average about 11000 miles per year. If I got 24 mpg more than I get right now, I'd save $1375 in gas per year (@ $3/gal). It would take me a long time to see the savings that hybrids bring. For someone who logs a lot of miles, I'd definitely be looking at a hybrid.

IluvKingLouis
05-23-2007, 06:25 PM
Our tax return was $7000.00 *more* then what we would have received because we did buy the Prius. We got 4K back from state, and 3K from fed. Turbo tax will walk you through it. The various hybrids all had different tax refund amounts with the Prius being the highest. Here's an article that kind of explains it:

http://hybridcars.about.com/od/news/a/hybridtaxcredit.htm

On the other hand, my mother who is retired thought about buying a Prius but because she pays so little in taxes she would not benefit from the tax credit.

We really benefited because Colorado also had a very generous tax credit in place for the Prius.

I did mispeak earlier, in that this is tax Credit and not a Refund, but I guess the Credit if the preferable one of the two.

ducklite
05-23-2007, 06:26 PM
ILuvKingLouis--do you mean to say that you received a $7000 tax incentive just because you bought the Prius? If you got a $7000 combined refund that included a prius tax incentive, that is totally different than getting a straight $7000 prius refund. Does that make sense? Just trying to figure out if your refund was $7000 more because you bought a prius.

I average about 11000 miles per year. If I got 24 mpg more than I get right now, I'd save $1375 in gas per year (@ $3/gal). It would take me a long time to see the savings that hybrids bring. For someone who logs a lot of miles, I'd definitely be looking at a hybrid.


When we bought our Prius in 2005, it was a $2000 tax deduction on our Federal return. The car isn't quite two years old and has 45,000 miles on it. I don't believe we got any credit on the State return.

Our sedan gets 35 mpg, and at $2.50 a gallon we would have spent $3215 on gas had we not bought the Prius. Our Prius gets 50 mpg, and at $2.50 we have spent $2250--almost a $500 a year savings. If gas stays around $3 a gallon, over the next two years it will be close to $600 a year. Between the tax credit and gas savings, over four years we've seen a savings of more than the $3000 additional cost we paid for the Prius over a similarly equiped car of the same size. (The Prius is a surprisingly roomy car.)

If gas goes to $7 a gallon, in two years it's more than made up for the additional cost, not including any potential tax credit.

Anne

kileybeth
05-23-2007, 07:12 PM
okay, time for comic relief.

I am doing my part in keeping that car in the driveway

1) I am flying to WDW in September for $49 each way, I mean, who knows what price per gallon could be by then ya know?

2) I'm stayiing on site and not renting a car at all, using Disney's transportation the whole 8 days and we all know what a sacrifice that can be!

3) I can not buy an SUV altho I'd love to own one, I have to many kids to fit us in one along with our luggage if we did choose to drive! Have to seat 6 minimum and 7 lots of the time so we do not have the small car options that lots of folks do.

4) DH drives a company car and that is huge for us $$$ these days.

5) and finally, we combine trips when we can. Example: no one gets a tooth ache until I also have to go to the doctor for something else b/c they are both on opposite side of town. Example 2: everyone is limited to one bowl of cereal for breakfast and 1 slice of toast b/c trips to the store for bread, milk and eggs are costing us a small fortune and I can't fit what I need in my fridge for a week
(8-10 gal milk, 4-5 loaves bread and 4 doz. eggs)and have had to turn off my extra freezer to save money. Don't even ask about our cheese consumption. . .

And have a happy day. My last fill up for my 2006 Chevy Uplander (new at $23,000+/- a few dollars, (our old van lasted 10 years and then we gave it to our grown married son and it is still going) was over $70.00. It gets around 18-20 mpg but was what we could afford.

so much for comic relief!

neatokimmo
05-23-2007, 07:58 PM
Carpooling is the way to go, we are going to start ours back up. Work is 30 miles away RT and we all get 30-32 MPG. So it's 2 gallons saved per work day per work week or $6 X 5 X 47 = $1410 a year / 3 = $470

I paid $470 for my last Disney trip last Sept during free dining. 6 days of Magic for free if we can keep it going :hippie:

reginaastralis
05-23-2007, 10:15 PM
Look at it this way ... the gas companies have no reason to bring the prices down. There have been great amounts of data showing what prices were last year and what they are now.

If the oil companies are able to get oil cheaper, but they're still able to sell it to us for a higher price ... of course they're going to sell it for the higher price.

I know the govenor here and a bunch of other states have lobbied Congress about this. I don't know about you, but it makes me sick to think that gas companies have made a 1 billion dollar proffit when I'm bustin my rump to keep my tank filled to get to work.

Of course, we could always buy stock in a gas company. At $100 a share, I'm sure we'd make something off of it in the long run.

dcibrando
05-24-2007, 05:09 AM
I see where www.tomorrowlandvacations.com is offering a visa gift card for every vacation package to help pay for gas or whatever. might want to check them out... might help a little bit

Cindy B
05-24-2007, 05:22 AM
Ok, I'm done with my Prius love-fest:rotfl2: but I would like to say this is a great thread and very thought provoking. It reminds me of the Voluntary Simplicity movement. There is a fanastic book out there called "Affluenza: The all consuming epidemic." It really makes you think about choices you make everday.

In response to the posters nostalgic for an old fashion neighborhood experience, Co-Housing is starting to really make it big. It''s something I'm quite intrigued with.

I read Affluenza when the book was released. (old edition). there is a newer edition that came out last year.

Another great one is Not Buying It. This is a book about a couple that bought nothing --and I mean NOTHING-- except necessities (food, shelter, gas) for one year. And even the food budget was pared down to only necessitities.

C.Ann
05-24-2007, 05:23 AM
$7 a gallon to "get people to quit driving"? And just how - pray tell - are people supposed to "quit driving"?

The area I am in now (where I live 7 to 8 months out of the year) is very isolated and there is NO public transportation at all - none.. How would the year-round residents here get to work? The people who work in a 25-mile radius don't even make enough money to pay $7 a gallon for gas and those who earn more have to travel 45 miles+ - at the very least - to get to work..

Indications on the national news already show that people are making drastic changes in terms of shopping, dining out, making any big ticket purchases, etc.. $7 a gallon for gas would create a huge problem for our economy - one that will have an impact on everyone - not just those in certain income brackets..:sad2:

DawnM
05-24-2007, 08:57 AM
Haven't they done away with these insentives as of this year? I thought that was the case.

In LA for a while they were allowing Prius drivers to drive in the carpool lane even if there was one person in the car. Several people got them because of that alone!

Dawn


I'm not sure why these numbers are coming up so off? :confused3 We bought a Prius 10 months ago. We paid 25K, and a comparable/non hybrid Civic or similar would have been in the 15-17 range. However, we got 7K back in State and Federal taxes...it was a straight refund, not a tax credit. That brought us into the 18K range, so 2-3K more then a Civic. We're getting 50mpg, as opposed to 35, so 40% better fuel economy. We figured our breakeven would occur at 2.5 years assuming gas at 2.50. Now that gas is about $3.50 in our area our breakeven will be sooner. We tend to keep our cars for 10 years plus. We are also finding our routine maintenances to be much less then with a traditional engine. I think the electric engine (gas asssist) is a much cleaner system, then gas alone.

I should also add, DH telecommutes and I'm a SAHM and I do a little website design from home. So if we were commuters, our breakeven would hit even earlier.

Now I'm not sure if there is a tax incentive at this time, but if not, we should certainly make sure they hear us loud and clear in Washington! People should recieve a financial incentive to go this route.

ducklite
05-24-2007, 09:10 AM
Haven't they done away with these insentives as of this year? I thought that was the case.

In LA for a while they were allowing Prius drivers to drive in the carpool lane even if there was one person in the car. Several people got them because of that alone!

Dawn

They've changed the tax incentives, and it depends on what model of hybrid you buy.

One of the reasons DH bought the Prius was to use the HOV lanes outside of DC, although he's often found he gets through faster in the regular lanes because there are so many hybrids now.

Anne

kimbac3
05-24-2007, 09:26 AM
$7 a gallon to "get people to quit driving"? And just how - pray tell - are people supposed to "quit driving"?

The area I am in now (where I live 7 to 8 months out of the year) is very isolated and there is NO public transportation at all - none.. How would the year-round residents here get to work? The people who work in a 25-mile radius don't even make enough money to pay $7 a gallon for gas and those who earn more have to travel 45 miles+ - at the very least - to get to work..


I agree with this. My Dh is an electrician. He needs tools, ladders, equipment, wire, Etc. A truck is his only option. I also live in an isolated area..NO public transportation AT ALL!!! DH needs to drive about 30-45 mins to work everyday if not further. Plus he does service calls, which means he's driving all over the place. It's just not practical to "Stop" driving. We still have other bills to pay and Kids to feed. It's crazy!!

Kimba

tedhowe
05-24-2007, 10:32 AM
They've changed the tax incentives, and it depends on what model of hybrid you buy.

One of the reasons DH bought the Prius was to use the HOV lanes outside of DC, although he's often found he gets through faster in the regular lanes because there are so many hybrids now.

Anne

The Federal tax incentives are starting to be phased out. The way the law was written, each car manufacturer has a quota of 60,000 hybrid vehicles. Once they have sold that number of hybrids (total of all models/years), then they are on a clock to eliminate the rebates - for the first two calendar quarters after the 60,000 hybrid is sold, the buyers get only half of the original rebate amount for the car they purchased. For the next two calendar quarters after that, they get only 1/4. After that, there is no tax credit incentive left for that manufacturer's cars.

Currently, only Toyota has passed that limit - they did it during the 3rd quarter of last year. So from Oct 1, '06 to 3/31/07, you only got half of the Prius's $3150.00 tax credit. Right now, and until 9/30/07, you only get 1/4.

Its a strage system, but is one that makes some sense in trying to foster competition among multiple car manufacturers to get them in the market. The manufacturers that haven't been as successful as Toyota so far, right now have a bit of a price advantage in that their buyers will pay less for a car priced the same.

Beware, though, as I've been checking this out, I've found a bit gotcha in the tax law. The Alternative Minimum Tax plays havoc with the tax credit anyway.

The Hybrid car tax credit does NOT reduce your AMT calculation, so if the tax credit would push your regular tax calculation below the AMT, then your AMT tax is now higher - and that is the amount you have to pay in tax - effectively limiting the amount of benefit you get from the hybrid tax credit.

On the plus side, when I started my research a few weeks ago into a hybrid car, the Prius was what I wanted in my heart, but I kept finding myself drawn by the higher tax incentives that were reducing the price of other cars... with the AMT thing, the low tax incentives on the Prius don't make a difference now.

Ted

dhardawa
05-24-2007, 10:52 AM
There are also many people out there who still feel they need to drive monster SUV's. I've actually heard some (women especially) who say that they drive the big SUV because they feel safer than if they were in a small car and basically one person's attitude was "too bad, I'm still going to drive it". To me, that is just selfish because everytime someone adopts the attitude that they have the money to drive the big SUV and fill the gas tank, they are contributing to the problem and making it that much harder for those of us who can't afford to fill our tanks anymore.


I think you hit the nail on the head here! It is these huge gas guzzling vehicles that are increasing our overall fuel usage. We are at a point where our refineries can't keep up so we become dependent on both foreign oil and foreign refined fuel.

I think a huge fee when purchasing a "non-fuel efficient vehicle" would slow that down. If every time a vehicle that go, say, less than 20 mpg was purchased, there was a $5,000 fee added people would re-think it. That $5,000 would then go into a fund that would be distributed at license plate time to those who do drive a fuel efficient vehicle to help them pay the higher fuel costs caused by the non-fuel efficient vehicles.

I also think getting a man who is making millions and millions of dollars off the refinery busines out of the presidency will help tremendously.

IluvKingLouis
05-24-2007, 11:06 AM
I think you hit the nail on the head here! It is these huge gas guzzling vehicles that are increasing our overall fuel usage. We are at a point where our refineries can't keep up so we become dependent on both foreign oil and foreign refined fuel.

I think a huge fee when purchasing a "non-fuel efficient vehicle" would slow that down. If every time a vehicle that go, say, less than 20 mpg was purchased, there was a $5,000 fee added people would re-think it. That $5,000 would then go into a fund that would be distributed at license plate time to those who do drive a fuel efficient vehicle to help them pay the higher fuel costs caused by the non-fuel efficient vehicles.

I also think getting a man who is making millions and millions of dollars off the refinery busines out of the presidency will help tremendously.


I couldn't agree with you more! I've often thought a carbon tax would be nice. If you buy a car with poor fuel economy you pay a carbon tax, if you buy one with good fuel economy you get some sort of tax break.

Now here's my really unpopular idea (and I'm not a vegetarian). Since raising livestock is also a high energy, high resource consumption activity, I think meat should also have a carbon tax. I also think soy products (like Boca burgers, and veggie dogs) should be partially subsidized so that families could still get their protein but from a source that's a little kinder to the planet.

dhardawa
05-24-2007, 11:16 AM
I couldn't agree with you more! I've often thought a carbon tax would be nice. If you buy a car with poor fuel economy you pay a carbon tax, if you buy one with good fuel economy you get some sort of tax break.

Now here's my really unpopular idea (and I'm not a vegetarian). Since raising livestock is also a high energy, high resource consumption activity, I think meat should also have a carbon tax. I also think soy products (like Boca burgers, and veggie dogs) should be partially subsidized so that families could still get their protein but from a source that's a little kinder to the planet.

Oh, I'm all for that! I love Boca Burgers and the Morningstar Farms corn dogs, but I just can't rationalize over $3 for four corn dogs when I can buy a case of 24 regular corn dogs for the same price. If we used the tax on meat to subsidize the non-meat alternatives I could buy more! As it is, we eat so little meat it isn't even funny.

IluvKingLouis
05-24-2007, 11:22 AM
Oh, I'm all for that! I love Boca Burgers and the Morningstar Farms corn dogs, but I just can't rationalize over $3 for four corn dogs when I can buy a case of 24 regular corn dogs for the same price. If we used the tax on meat to subsidize the non-meat alternatives I could buy more! As it is, we eat so little meat it isn't even funny.

I love them too. I absolutely love the buffalo chicken nuggets. Wrap it up in a tortill with a little lettuce and some blue cheese dressing and I'm in heaven!

I do agree that they (Boca, Morning Star, etc) are on the pricey side. I try to buy them with coupons and on sale. I'm glad someone likes my radical idea of taxing meat and subsidizing soy products :)

Of course, I don't think any politician could run on that platform and win!:rotfl2:

ducklite
05-24-2007, 11:45 AM
I couldn't agree with you more! I've often thought a carbon tax would be nice. If you buy a car with poor fuel economy you pay a carbon tax, if you buy one with good fuel economy you get some sort of tax break.

Now here's my really unpopular idea (and I'm not a vegetarian). Since raising livestock is also a high energy, high resource consumption activity, I think meat should also have a carbon tax. I also think soy products (like Boca burgers, and veggie dogs) should be partially subsidized so that families could still get their protein but from a source that's a little kinder to the planet.

A lot of people are allergic to soy and nuts and would have a difficult time getting enough protein if meat was heavily taxed.

Farmers are making so little now I think it would be disasterous to tax their products even more. And more and more farms are using biodiesel and other alternative fuel sources.

Anne

graygables
05-24-2007, 11:58 AM
I think a huge fee when purchasing a "non-fuel efficient vehicle" would slow that down. If every time a vehicle that go, say, less than 20 mpg was purchased, there was a $5,000 fee added people would re-think it. That $5,000 would then go into a fund that would be distributed at license plate time to those who do drive a fuel efficient vehicle to help them pay the higher fuel costs caused by the non-fuel efficient vehicles.


this is short-sighted. Electricians, carpenters, masons, plumbers, anyone who hauls or pulls a trailer for their livelihood would bear the brunt of this fee/tax as we MUST drive certain vehicles for our businesses. A fee like that, plus the gas prices would put many out of business (we, personally, would lose everything). It really boils down to greed. The oil companies are making record profits and not reinvesting in new technology, they barely keep the refineries working. It is no coincidence that refineries were shut down for "maintenance" at the same time. They see their chance to raise prices and they do it.

graygables
05-24-2007, 12:01 PM
A lot of people are allergic to soy and nuts and would have a difficult time getting enough protein if meat was heavily taxed.

Farmers are making so little now I think it would be disasterous to tax their products even more. And more and more farms are using biodiesel and other alternative fuel sources.

Anne

and it isn't even an allergy issue. Soy is NOT good for women who have estrogen dominance or certain kinds of cancer. My endo told me to avoid soy products for me and my DDs as much as possible.

ducklite
05-24-2007, 12:10 PM
this is short-sighted. Electricians, carpenters, masons, plumbers, anyone who hauls or pulls a trailer for their livelihood would bear the brunt of this fee/tax as we MUST drive certain vehicles for our businesses. A fee like that, plus the gas prices would put many out of business (we, personally, would lose everything). It really boils down to greed. The oil companies are making record profits and not reinvesting in new technology, they barely keep the refineries working. It is no coincidence that refineries were shut down for "maintenance" at the same time. They see their chance to raise prices and they do it.

What I don't understand is why they don't buy Saturn Vue Greenline's that get 36 mpg and are rated to pull trailers--the built in trailer hitch is a dead giveaway on that one...

Anne

dawnball
05-24-2007, 12:16 PM
I couldn't agree with you more! I've often thought a carbon tax would be nice. If you buy a car with poor fuel economy you pay a carbon tax, if you buy one with good fuel economy you get some sort of tax break.


The cost to offset the carbon footprint of an SUV for its entire life is about $640 (via carbonfund). For a green car (41+mpg) it's about $195. Offsetting carbon is a good idea, since lots of people are going to drive anyway. However, it pales compared to the difference in price of gasoline over the lifetime of a vehicle. The average vehicle is on the road in the US for 20 years. That means that at 12,000 miles per year and an average gas price of $3.25/gallon the difference in fuel cost between 20mph and 30mpg is $13,000.

Really, lots of people who drive SUVs don't have other good options or see themselves as not having good options. They already have strong financial incentives not to drive SUVs and do it anyway. I don't think that further penalties will be any more effective than higher cigarette taxes are at deterring smoking.

graygables
05-24-2007, 01:17 PM
What I don't understand is why they don't buy Saturn Vue Greenline's that get 36 mpg and are rated to pull trailers--the built in trailer hitch is a dead giveaway on that one...

Anne

The built in trailer hitch is for TOY hauling, not "real" trailers. The Saturn Vue won't hold 4'x8' sheetgoods. The Greenline will not tow more than 1500 pounds, my cargo trailer is about 3000. The only Vues that will tow that much still only get 19-20mpg (no trailer) which is what my Kia Sedona gets and has oodles more room for DDs to stretch out on our long trips.

We are stuck between a rock and a hard place. We've always tried very hard to live "green". DH has been staying near his current jobsite rather than use gas to drive back and forth every day. He's sleeping in his truck tonight b/c the rest of the crew is going home early for the weekend and the hotels where he is working are running $200 for the night (I checked). He says if it ain't Disney, he's not paying that much! :lmao: It's been hard on our family, hard for me to get MY work done for my upcoming show, which puts me behind. The costs cascade into all aspects of life, not just the gas tank. It's fine to talk about reducing our dependence on foreign oil (which I've heard this conversation since the 70s, and yet...nothing's changed :sad2: ), but in the meantime, families are HURTING, children are having to eat junk rather than fresh foods b/c it's becoming a choice of buying apples or buying gas to get to work for many Americans.

IluvKingLouis
05-24-2007, 01:22 PM
A lot of people are allergic to soy and nuts and would have a difficult time getting enough protein if meat was heavily taxed.

Farmers are making so little now I think it would be disasterous to tax their products even more. And more and more farms are using biodiesel and other alternative fuel sources.

Anne


I never implied that meat be heavily taxed, but I do think a small tax (maybe 10-20 cents a pound and that revenue could be used to subsidize soy, and beans --- two protein sources that are healthy and can be produced using a lot less water/energy).

I also think the farmers who are using biodiesel and wind energy should be rewarded for doing so.

I just think if we are ever going to change our habits, nothing works quite as well as a financial incentive. When I lived in Europe I bought a lot of the foods which were subsidized; yogurt, dark bread, certain cheeses, milk and orange juice. Meat was expensive and eaten in very small portions and not at every meal.

I'm sure we all have ideas on how we would like to see economic incentives/disincentives applied to our system. Mine was simply my opinion.

mickeyfan2
05-24-2007, 01:38 PM
Really, lots of people who drive SUVs don't have other good options or see themselves as not having good options. They already have strong financial incentives not to drive SUVs and do it anyway. I don't think that further penalties will be any more effective than higher cigarette taxes are at deterring smoking.

ITA

DawnM
05-24-2007, 02:51 PM
I think part of the problem is that you would penalize people with more than 3 children. Even 3 boys in the back of our Saturn VUE is pushing it and they aren't even teenagers yet!

I think they should hit where it would really make a difference if they do something like this! Punish the producers of such vehicles and maybe they will start producing vehicles that will hold more than 5 into better, more fuel efficient vehicles.

Dawn


I think you hit the nail on the head here! It is these huge gas guzzling vehicles that are increasing our overall fuel usage. We are at a point where our refineries can't keep up so we become dependent on both foreign oil and foreign refined fuel.

I think a huge fee when purchasing a "non-fuel efficient vehicle" would slow that down. If every time a vehicle that go, say, less than 20 mpg was purchased, there was a $5,000 fee added people would re-think it. That $5,000 would then go into a fund that would be distributed at license plate time to those who do drive a fuel efficient vehicle to help them pay the higher fuel costs caused by the non-fuel efficient vehicles.

I also think getting a man who is making millions and millions of dollars off the refinery busines out of the presidency will help tremendously.

Chicago526
05-24-2007, 03:13 PM
this is short-sighted. Electricians, carpenters, masons, plumbers, anyone who hauls or pulls a trailer for their livelihood would bear the brunt of this fee/tax as we MUST drive certain vehicles for our businesses. A fee like that, plus the gas prices would put many out of business (we, personally, would lose everything). It really boils down to greed. The oil companies are making record profits and not reinvesting in new technology, they barely keep the refineries working. It is no coincidence that refineries were shut down for "maintenance" at the same time. They see their chance to raise prices and they do it.

How about an exception for work vehicles? The "carbon" tax would only be for passenger vehicals, not those used for work/business. Just a thought!

ducklite
05-24-2007, 03:36 PM
How about an exception for work vehicles? The "carbon" tax would only be for passenger vehicals, not those used for work/business. Just a thought!

So my next door neighbor can claim that his H-2 is his "work vehicle" because he's self-employed and drives to and from his office. :rolleyes:

Like someone else pointed out, the people who can afford those vehicles already who don't need them (yeah, you need a Escalade to haul mom, dad, and two kids--God forbid they ahve to actually sit close enough to reach out and touch each other) aren't going to be phased by paying a tax on them.

In 1975 or so my next door neighbors used to cram mom, dad, two teen boys and a tweener girl into a Chevy Vega that they bought when gas prices were sky-high and we had rationing. It can be done, it might be less comfortable, but it can be done.

Anne

IluvKingLouis
05-24-2007, 03:38 PM
I think part of the problem is that you would penalize people with more than 3 children. Even 3 boys in the back of our Saturn VUE is pushing it and they aren't even teenagers yet!



The technology is available. Toyota offers a minivan hybrid that gets 47 mpg, but it's not available for the US market yet (I think they are shooting for 2010). Last I heard, it would sell for about 31K which is awfully pricey for a minivan. That's why I think it's so important that tax incentives or some form of rebate be in place to make this an affordable option for most folks.

But the inverse of that logic, is that the incentives need to be funded some way.

ducklite
05-24-2007, 03:54 PM
The technology is available. Toyota offers a minivan hybrid that gets 47 mpg, but it's not available for the US market yet (I think they are shooting for 2010). Last I heard, it would sell for about 31K which is awfully pricey for a minivan. That's why I think it's so important that tax incentives or some form of rebate be in place to make this an affordable option for most folks.

But the inverse of that logic, is that the incentives need to be funded some way.

If gas stays at or over $3 a gallon people won't need tax incentives to buy a more fuel efficient vehicle. And I don't think $31K is all that much for a minivan. A stripped to the bone Chrysler Pacifica or Nissan Quest runs $25K+, a stripped Ford Freestar is right around $25K, and they all get about 18 mpg. The gas savings alone in 10,000 miles @ $3 a gallon could easily be over $1000.

Anne

treboats
05-24-2007, 03:57 PM
I have 3 kids one of who is in a wheelchair so I have no choice but an SUV or Mini Van. DH does heating and air conditioning and has to drive a van to carry all the equipment and different parts. It wouldn't be cost effective to carry less with him because he is driving a more fuel efficient vehicle it would make him have to make more trips resulting in more mileage doing away with any savings.

This simple fact is oil futures should not be for sale that is what is raising the price of fuel.

mjbaby
05-24-2007, 04:20 PM
I have 3 kids one of who is in a wheelchair so I have no choice but an SUV or Mini Van. DH does heating and air conditioning and has to drive a van to carry all the equipment and different parts. It wouldn't be cost effective to carry less with him because he is driving a more fuel efficient vehicle it would make him have to make more trips resulting in more mileage doing away with any savings.


Well, clearly, you have a legitimate need to use the kinds of vehicles that you do. Not nearly as many people who think that they fall into this category actually do, though.

My Volvo wagon fits three car seats across, gets upwards of 25 MPH and has more cargo space than most SUVs and Minivans. Is it sexy? No. Is it glam? No. And it has no available DVD player, TV, running boards, etc. It has no GPS (we're strictly analog here and use maps :) ) and there are only two cup holders (yep, it's true, we drive a car where each occupant lacks two dedicated cup holders). But I can't tell you how many people I know who drive much larger and less fuel-efficient vehicles tell me how they "wish" they could drive a car like mine, but for reasons A, B and C they cannot. When I point out that they actually *could* put all three kids in the car, haul just as much as they currently do and would spend less doing it, for some reason they become very quiet and then change the subject. People tend not to like it when confronted with the facts that what they've defined as a "need" is actually a "want" and perhaps even a non-critical one.

But, yes, there are people who actually DO need larger vehicles and they shouldn't be penalized for that.

DOOM1001
05-24-2007, 06:10 PM
If it ever got to even $5 a gallon,I'm packing my bags,selling my car and moving within walking/bicycle/bus distance to WDW.

dawnball
05-24-2007, 07:53 PM
This simple fact is oil futures should not be for sale that is what is raising the price of fuel.

By what rationale? High gasoline prices are not currently caused by high oil prices. High gasoline prices are caused by a lack of refining capacity and a inability to site new refineries. Oil futures don't even raise oil prices - anymore than corn futures raise corn prices. An oil future is nothing but a bet. When I buy an oil future I'm betting than a barrel of oil will cost more when my future matures than it does now. If the barrel costs more when I sell it - I make money. If it costs less when I sell it - I lose money. My bet doesn't influence the price of oil significantly.

dawnball
05-24-2007, 08:02 PM
I never implied that meat be heavily taxed, but I do think a small tax (maybe 10-20 cents a pound and that revenue could be used to subsidize soy, and beans --- two protein sources that are healthy and can be produced using a lot less water/energy).



There's more than a billion dollars a year in soybean subsidies already. And beans are cheap, soybeans are really cheap. That's why schools use TVP to stretch beef, because it's remarkably cheap stuff. Highly processed soy-based meat substitutes (boca burgers, morningstar farms, etc) are expensive primarily due to factors of scale and demand as well as the demographics of the target market.

bord1niowa
05-24-2007, 08:25 PM
Another reason for high gas prices is there's no love between the ruling party and the oil companies. The oil companies know they will be addressed severely by the democrats, so they're going to make their money while they can and get people used to higher prices than we had. I had to laugh to myself the other day when someone said. boy I wish gas would get under $3 a gallon, I'd be soo happy. Hahahaha:lmao:

SueM in MN
05-24-2007, 09:04 PM
I have 3 kids one of who is in a wheelchair so I have no choice but an SUV or Mini Van. DH does heating and air conditioning and has to drive a van to carry all the equipment and different parts. It wouldn't be cost effective to carry less with him because he is driving a more fuel efficient vehicle it would make him have to make more trips resulting in more mileage doing away with any savings.

This simple fact is oil futures should not be for sale that is what is raising the price of fuel.
We also have to have a minivan as one of our vehicles because of needing to carry a power wheelchair. At least a minivan is more enerrgy efficient than a full size conversion van, which would be our other possible choice.
The other 2 cars in our household are VW Beetles, which get pretty good mileage.