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View Full Version : Disney Called Today Tips will not be cut out of DDP!~looks like they lied:(


surfergrl31
05-19-2007, 08:38 PM
I don't know if this is really a good thing or not, but I was very excited when I got a phone call this morning. I thought to myself when the phone rang, here we go with the telemarketers, but caller id said Disney-MGM Studios. I was very excited thinking that maybe I won something, but no they were responding about the email that I sent to them concerning removing tips from the DDP.

The lady was very nice and wanted to know where I got the information from and to assure me that they were not going to take tips out of the dinning plan. She tell me that the confusion could be over something similar that they were removing from a plan the castmembers have. I guess I did write a very convincing email because it was forwarded to VP of gues relations who sent me an email assuring me that this wouldn't happen. I was given the chance to offer a quick suggestion that there should be a way to allow guests to determine the percentage of the tip, even if it means that money is never seen again. I wouldn't really care to loose $20 if that meant that a very bad server wouldn't be rewarded for sub level service.

Anyway I thought that I would pass this along to everyone who was wondering about this issue, it could be smoke they were giving me so we will just have to see how this plays out.

bicker
05-20-2007, 04:49 AM
Thanks for sharing the information.

auntsister
05-20-2007, 05:08 AM
I'm glad to hear this. It would still be a good deal but not as convenient. I love the idea of having the meals paid before I even get there. Just have to have plenty of spending money! ( That reminds me, need to find an ATM as I am leaving for WDW in 26 hours!)
I have listened to all the great advice on these boards and plan on putting charge privileges on only one room key to prevent confusion when paying for DDP.

trixie1822
05-20-2007, 05:09 AM
GOOD NEWS ! :banana:

Katiebell
05-20-2007, 10:05 AM
We just got back last night, and spoke with servers at several restaurants, including Mama Melrose's and Raglan Road, and those servers are all under the impression that the included gratuities are being eliminated. So either Guest Relations was not being truthful with you, or the servers themselves are not aware of this.

And I confirmed with the server at Raglan Road that they do not get tipped on the full menu price of the items ordered, only on the amount that Disney reimburses the restaurant (I think this is true for some, but not all, non-Disney owned restaurants). For example, he said he had just waited on a large party, and the bill would have come to about $480 -- but after the Dining Plan, the amount reimbursed to the restaurant only came to about $250, and that was the amount he received a tip on. He didn't volunteer this info, I asked him about it specifically, and he seemed surprised and pleased that a guest would wonder about that, or even care. Our bill for the two of us wasn't anywhere close to that amount, but we made sure to tip extra anyway to try to close the gap between what Disney pays and what would have been a fair tip on what we actually ordered.

Uncleromulus
05-20-2007, 10:07 AM
Two servers I talked with were also under the impression that gratuities were going to be eliminated--
Guess the final word has yet to be heard.

JimMIA
05-20-2007, 11:04 AM
I find it impossible to believe that Disney Guest Relations would go to the trouble of both emailing and telephoning a guest to lie to them. I would bet OP's information is the correct scoop, and the servers only know what they're being told by their union reps.

I've been saying all along that the idea of eliminating tips doesn't make any sense, and is probably a negotiating ploy by one side or the other in contract negotiations. That kind of posturing is what negotiations are all about, and it doesnt' surprise me to hear that one side or the other (possibly both) are saying that to get folks riled up. But I don't think it will actually happen.

bicker
05-20-2007, 01:31 PM
Rather, I think everyone's information is correct. Guest Relations can only relay to guests official information. Once the changes are official, THEN Guest Relations can talk about it, providing confirmation or otherwise.

JimMIA
05-20-2007, 01:52 PM
Rather, I think everyone's information is correct. Guest Relations can only relay to guests official information. Once the changes are official, THEN Guest Relations can talk about it, providing confirmation or otherwise.
If this were a case where OP called guest relations and some random CM told her that, I'd agree with you. But that's not the case here.

In this case, they took two affirmative steps to contact OP and assure her that no such thing was going to happen. They didn't say it hadn't happened. They said it will not happen. I don't think a VP would write OP an email and say "It ain't happening" unless they were 100% sure it wasn't happening.

I've been wrong before, but I'll be pretty amazed if the gratuity gets taken out of DDP. If it does, that VP is beyond clueless.

Laren
05-20-2007, 02:08 PM
Rather, I think everyone's information is correct. Guest Relations can only relay to guests official information. Once the changes are official, THEN Guest Relations can talk about it, providing confirmation or otherwise.

I would definitely have to agree with this. I haven't emailed Guest Relations on this issue, but I have written them snail mail on other issues in the past- one letter even got a response from high up at the Corporate level- they phoned me to ask about a couple things I'd mentioned in my letter.

At the time, (a few years ago) the lady told me there was no truth to the rumor that they were going to knock down the north wing of the CR to build a DVC there.

So. . . *lol* I take everything I get from Guest Relations with a grain of salt, you just have to wait and see what happens when it happens.

Laren

JimMIA
05-20-2007, 02:13 PM
At the time, (a few years ago) the lady told me there was no truth to the rumor that they were going to knock down the north wing of the CR to build a DVC there.But there IS no truth to that rumor. They're not going to knock down the north wing of the Contemp -- they've already done so! Talk about worst-kept secrets! :rotfl2:

Laren
05-20-2007, 02:18 PM
But there IS no truth to that rumor. They're not going to knock down the north wing of the Contemp -- they've already done so! Talk about worst-kept secrets! :rotfl2:


LOL yeah, but when I wrote them it was September of 2003. So it was just a rumor then.

Laren

bicker
05-20-2007, 06:09 PM
I don't think a VP would write OP an email and say "It ain't happening" unless they were 100% sure it wasn't happening.I do. I think sometimes customers think companies have an obligation to either (a) ensure every employee -- or even just every VP -- knows everything about everything within the company, or (b) reveal proprietary information to customers just because they ask a probing question, when in reality there is no such obligation.

I've been wrong before, but I'll be pretty amazed if the gratuity gets taken out of DDP. I don't think we know anything now that we didn't know last week, or three weeks ago, or five weeks ago, in that regard. I still think it's a 50/50 thing.

If it does, that VP is beyond clueless.Or just not in the loop. Or just doing his/her job.

bookmama
05-20-2007, 07:21 PM
yay!! I was about to question getting the dining plan for our return trip in a couple of years. I'm glad Disney wouldn't stiff their employees like that.

JimMIA
05-20-2007, 07:29 PM
I don't think we know anything now that we didn't know last week, or three weeks ago, or five weeks ago, in that regard.All we really know is that one or two people (who, of course, could be the same person) who say they are servers, have posted under assumed names, on an anonmyous discussion board, a claim that they were told by their union reps (who may be in negotiations with Disney) that the gratuity was going to be removed. That falls well short of the creditability standard for me.

At least Contemporary Villas always made sense! :cool1:

Katiebell
05-21-2007, 12:59 AM
All we really know is that one or two people (who, of course, could be the same person) who say they are servers, have posted under assumed names, on an anonmyous discussion board, a claim that they were told by their union reps (who may be in negotiations with Disney) that the gratuity was going to be removed. That falls well short of the creditability standard for me.

We just got back, and we ate at Boma, Akershus, Mama Melrose's, Grand Floridian Cafe, Raglan Road, 'Ohana, and Crystal Palace. I discussed the included gratuities with the servers at Boma, Mama Melrose's, Raglan Road, and at least one other restaurant, I think Akershus? All of those servers were under the assumption that the Disney was going to do away with the included gratuity. The server at Raglan Road - who confirmed that there the servers are only tipped on the amount Disney pays, not the full meal value -- said in some cases, they might get more if tipped OOP, but then again guests might not order as much, or would be more price-conscious and the cost of the meal would be lower. But, he also said that the included gratuity ensures that the server doesn't get stiffed, or seriously shorted by guests who come from a country where tipping isn't customary. He said he had no complaints about the DDP, except that their system is often down and it's a hassle to run the cards sometimes. When he did our ticket, the system was down and he couldn't find a manager, so the drink tab had no included tip (so we just tipped OOP), and the meal tab had the tip included but it was only a total of about $60 when the actual OOP cost would have been over $85, so we paid extra on the tip make up the difference. It still showed when we checked out that we had 2 TS credits left because the RR meal hadn't shown up in the system yet.

Uncleromulus
05-21-2007, 04:40 AM
The two servers I talked to last week were "live" (and different restaurants from Katiebell) and both thought the DDP gratuity would be gone starting in 2008.
But--as has been said, it isn't "official" yet, so I agree it's probably still a 50-50 thing.

JimMIA
05-21-2007, 06:51 AM
I have no doubt that servers have been told by their union reps that the gratuity is going away. But that doesn't mean it's true. As I said on another thread, either Disney or the union reps could use that scare tactic with the servers for their own purposes. It has certainly worked!

I still put more stock in the communications OP received than I do in negotiating scare tactics. I've seen those types of threats way too many times.

Elimination of the gratuity also defies logic. This iteration of the dining plan was designed to provide the guest with an "all-inclusive" onsite experience. As we often tell newbies, it is a package plan consisting of all of the component parts of a Disney vacation -- room, park tickets, and dining including tax and gratuity. Take away gratuity and you no longer have an all inclusive plan.

The other logical gap is that, if you wanted to reduce the cost of the DDP, there are much more beneficial and sensible ways to do that. It would make a lot more sense to eliminate the snack credits or reduce the ratio of CS credits to TS credits. You could eliminate either or both, saying as justification that history has shown that many guests don't use them all.

You'd still have an all-inclusive package for your main meals, and that would still meet the original purpose of the DDP. In fact, many guests might actually prefer that kind of plan.

As all of us have said at least once, we won't know for sure until the 2008 DDP is officially announced.

Lewisc
05-21-2007, 08:36 AM
According to a radio report union members at Disney voted down contract proposals. The report didn't spell out which unions voted the contracts down.

There are too many reports from servers, both on DIS and in person, who indicated the proposed contract drops tips from the DDP for it to be just rumor. Does anyone think all those servers are lying about the terms of the contract that's being voted on?

That doesn't mean it will happen.

Removing the gratuity is a logical way for Disney to raise the price without being obvious.

PaulaSB12
05-21-2007, 08:53 AM
They increased the ddp price this year for adults from $37.99 to $38.99 an increase of about 2.625% without people complaining and I am sure it will be increased by the same amount next year. Teach me to do anything while customers of the FDP (feline dining plan) are nagging.

Lewisc
05-21-2007, 09:00 AM
They increased the ddp price this year for adults from $37.99 to $38.99 an increase of about 26.25% without people complaining and I am sure it will be increased by the same amount next year.

I'll speculate that Disney anticipated savings from the official separation of adult and child credits.

edited to say I shouldn't do math while I'm also on a phone call. The increase was 2.65%, as corrected by subsequent posters.

JimMIA
05-21-2007, 09:11 AM
You're off by two decimal places, the increase was about .26%. A ten percent increase would have been $4 and the increase was only $1.

I'll speculate that Disney anticipated savings from the official separation of adult and child credits.
Actually, you're both off ONE decimal point. $1/37.99 = .0263, which is 2.63%...not one-quarter of one percent (.26%) or 26%.

Allison
05-21-2007, 09:23 AM
Actually, you're both off ONE decimal point. $1/37.99 = .0263, which is 2.63%...not one-quarter of one percent (.26%) or 26%.

That's correct. It was a 2.63% increase.

DisOrBust
05-21-2007, 11:07 AM
How many times over the years have I read threads with "I got a call from the executive offices and..." THEY HAVE BEEN WRONG!! Wether its sugar free jello , AP discounts or Alfredo's closing. Repeatedly Disers have gotten phone calls from WDW that were FILLED with false information. Do I think the CM on the other end is lying? No, just misinformed.

If it does come true no gratuity I would hope its anounced prior to the 180 day mark. This could really effect many peoples plans.

calypso*a*go-go
05-21-2007, 11:31 AM
I'm another that believes a call from Guest Services (or Executive Offices) is going to result in whatever information is *current* not what could be happening in the future...even if it's a policy that could change tomorrow. It's a win-win situation for Disney because all they'd have to say if questioned on it is that it *was* the policy that was in effect at the time of the call.

This is one will just have to wait on until all the contract negotiations are over. Does anyone know when that might be?

kaytieeldr
05-21-2007, 11:36 AM
Actually, you're both off ONE decimal point. $1/37.99 = .0263, which is 2.63%...not one-quarter of one percent (.26%) or 26%.

Given that the average rate of inflation for 2006 was 3.24%, a 2.63% total increase in the price of anything from January 2006 to January 2007 is extremely reasonable ;)

As for the accuracy of the information given to the OP from two sources, well, especially considering the VP's note that there's a plan under consideration to exclude the tip from a meal plan available to the Cast Members... it's easy to see the potential for confusion.

suzannews
05-21-2007, 02:20 PM
This is one will just have to wait on until all the contract negotiations are over. Does anyone know when that might be?

We haven't been given a new date to vote yet.

JimMIA
05-21-2007, 03:30 PM
We haven't been given a new date to vote yet.
Interesting. If it's permissible for you to do so, can you tell us whether you have -- in fact, not rumor -- been presented with a contract to vote on which eliminates the included 18% gratuity in the DDP?

Don't put yourself in jeopardy, but if it's okay, we'd all appreciate whatever you can tell us. Thanks, and we'll take care of you guys either way!

Lewisc
05-21-2007, 07:28 PM
Jim several posters have confirmed the proposed contract:
1) Got rid of the included gratuity for DDP guests
2) Now add an automatic gratuity for parties of 6 or more (currently 8 or more)
3) Add an automatic gratuity for guests use the DDE card.





Interesting. If it's permissible for you to do so, can you tell us whether you have -- in fact, not rumor -- been presented with a contract to vote on which eliminates the included 18% gratuity in the DDP?

Don't put yourself in jeopardy, but if it's okay, we'd all appreciate whatever you can tell us. Thanks, and we'll take care of you guys either way!

JimMIA
05-21-2007, 07:47 PM
Jim several posters have confirmed the proposed contract:
1) Got rid of the included gratuity for DDP guests
2) Now add an automatic gratuity for parties of 6 or more (currently 8 or more)
3) Add an automatic gratuity for guests use the DDE card.
I've obviously missed those posts. Can you give me a link?

Thanks.

bicker
05-22-2007, 04:49 AM
If it does come true no gratuity I would hope its anounced prior to the 180 day mark. This could really effect many peoples plans.The 180 day point is practically irrelevant to this. If you make ADRs and then find out that the deal has changed, just cancel them.

What matters is that people know what's included or not at the time that they pay for the Dining Plan.

surfergrl31
05-22-2007, 07:58 AM
I haven't read this thread in a few days figuring that it would not get a response. Okay so I am wrong, it did. I am only telling you what the phone call said and the VP said to me. Could they be lying? Maybe, but I don't see the trouble of calling and writing to tell me a bold face lie. If they did go to that extreme, I would be very careful about spending my money at Disney in the future.

If everyone is truly worried about this (cause I certainly don't like the idea), then write to Disney!!!! I pretty much told her on the phone and in my email that it would not only hurt my bottom line, but their bottom line also. It would be much more economical to rent a house in one of the close by neighborhoods and do my cooking there versus paying inflated costs for hotel room, tickets and dinning plan. The end result: I'm still going to the park, but much more of my money will be spend outside of the park.

I like the ddp for the sheer convience of having everything paid for before we leave so I would hope that we could just start flooding them with emails showing them why this is a bad idea for the customer as well Disney. So come one everyone lets start letting them know how we feel!!:cheer2:

JimMIA
05-22-2007, 08:59 AM
Jim several posters have confirmed the proposed contract:
1) Got rid of the included gratuity for DDP guests
2) Now add an automatic gratuity for parties of 6 or more (currently 8 or more)
3) Add an automatic gratuity for guests use the DDE card.I've obviously missed those posts. Can you give me a link?

Thanks.Just so we're all clear here -- I was not questioning my friend Lewis' veracity with this request. I was just trying to find out what I had missed.

Lewis PM'd the info to me (which I appreciate), but I just want to be sure nobody misunderstands my request.

DisOrBust
05-22-2007, 01:14 PM
The 180 day point is practically irrelevant to this. If you make ADRs and then find out that the deal has changed, just cancel them.

What matters is that people know what's included or not at the time that they pay for the Dining Plan.


It may be irrelevant to you but the DDP has people planning which park which day based on TS choices. Much of that can change by dropping the DDP. Example : I would do all signature dining VS. 1 TS IF I was not using the DDP. Unless I double up my ADRs I could very well be out of luck getting an ADR at CG for example. Also I don't like having to plan twice which would be eliminated IF the decision is made PRIOR to the 180 day mark.

bicker
05-23-2007, 03:27 AM
The point is that advance reservations are a convenience -- not guaranteed. An unexpected closure can disrupt such plans, without prejudice. Folks who place more priority on their advance reservations than that are setting themselves up for potential disappointment.

SusanDK
05-23-2007, 05:34 AM
The other logical gap is that, if you wanted to reduce the cost of the DDP, there are much more beneficial and sensible ways to do that. It would make a lot more sense to eliminate the snack credits or reduce the ratio of CS credits to TS credits. You could eliminate either or both, saying as justification that history has shown that many guests don't use them all.



I think a good and logical way to reduce the cost of DDP for Disney, and not really negatively affect the visitors, would be to change the TS meal to a two-course meal. The diner could have a choice of appetizer + entree, or entree + dessert, as opposed to all three as currently.

Most people find the TS meal to be far too much food as it is with three courses. They could also drop the dessert from the CS meal, and perhaps let the snack credit be used for a CS dessert if the diner wants one.

Susan

JimMIA
05-23-2007, 07:07 AM
I think a good and logical way to reduce the cost of DDP for Disney, and not really negatively affect the visitors, would be to change the TS meal to a two-course meal. The diner could have a choice of appetizer + entree, or entree + dessert, as opposed to all three as currently.

Most people find the TS meal to be far too much food as it is with three courses. They could also drop the dessert from the CS meal, and perhaps let the snack credit be used for a CS dessert if the diner wants one.

Susan
The problem with both of our suggestions is they would only reduce Disney's cost slightly for each meal.

If they eliminate the tip, instead of part of the revenue from the DDP going to the server, it stays in Disney's pocket. They have increased their revenue with no increase in cost. I think they compute the value of a TS meal at something like $25.00 and are therefore paying something like $4.50 to the restaurants as a tip. If they keep the tip, they've increased their revenue 11.5%, which is a pretty nice increase.

From my viewpoint, however, if they eliminate the tip, I would still tip 20% of the meal price (which is probably about $50 for an average TS meal). So I would get nothing more from DDP, but would pay $10 per adult meal more in tip. Everybody's math is different, but that's more than enough to send me offsite for virtually all meals.

I also don't buy the argument that DDP is too much food for most people...although it's plenty for us. I just see too many people stuffing their mouths with both hands at TS meals to buy that! If they dramatically reduced the food available, many would waddle away from the feeding trough.

Lewisc
05-23-2007, 08:57 AM
Disney's cost for a salad, soup or a piece of cake can't be more than $1-$2. Disney would get more savings if they made the entire table decide on appetizer or salad. That wouldn't save dollars but would reduce the time each party spends dining and increase restaurant capacity. The same thing could be accomplished by serving a sampler platter for the table.

I'll agree the CS dessert could be cut but again that won't save Disney that much cash and would give the plan less "sizzle".

I don't completely agree with the "too much" food posters. Many of those posters are selecting menu items which are really big enough to share. Disney is reducing portion sizes.





I think a good and logical way to reduce the cost of DDP for Disney, and not really negatively affect the visitors, would be to change the TS meal to a two-course meal. The diner could have a choice of appetizer + entree, or entree + dessert, as opposed to all three as currently.

Most people find the TS meal to be far too much food as it is with three courses. They could also drop the dessert from the CS meal, and perhaps let the snack credit be used for a CS dessert if the diner wants one.

Susan

Lewisc
05-23-2007, 09:33 AM
That's only true at the non-Disney owned restaurants. Disney owned restaurants base the servers tip on the menu price of the items ordered. It really doesn't matter if part of the tip comes out of the restaurants "pocket" and the rest of the tip is part of the reimbursement. The money comes out of Disney's pocket. The cost of a table service meal probably $30-$50.

Assuming you're right dropping the TIP will result in the dining plan budget saving $4.50 with the restaurant saving another $4-$5.



If they eliminate the tip, instead of part of the revenue from the DDP going to the server, it stays in Disney's pocket. They have increased their revenue with no increase in cost. I think they compute the value of a TS meal at something like $25.00 and are therefore paying something like $4.50 to the restaurants as a tip. If they keep the tip, they've increased their revenue 11.5%, which is a pretty nice increase.

DisOrBust
05-23-2007, 09:56 AM
[QUOTE=JimMIA;18805334]

From my viewpoint, however, if they eliminate the tip, I would still tip 20% of the meal price (which is probably about $50 for an average TS meal). So I would get nothing more from DDP, but would pay $10 per adult meal more in tip. Everybody's math is different, but that's more than enough to send me offsite for virtually all meals.



That is the point. It will drive repeat visitors offsite. If there isn't a value factor, only convenience, many repeat visitors will reconsider. I also think it will leave first timers with a bad taste in their mouth. If I do the math for our family the DDP is 170 add in "at least" 50$ in tips and it becomes cost prohibitive. Then add in how our family has seen a decrease in quality, portions and selections ( ie Smores at PTC we would split this with the girls is now half the size and the same cost) I can really justify going offsite for some meals. Plus no worries about the "convenience":rolleyes: factor of the ADRs.

We have done the DDP in the past and the real benefit for us was not trying to split up checks and figure out who owes what. Now if we have to deal with paying a tip I might as well go back to the old fasion way.

clkelley
05-23-2007, 10:34 AM
Jim several posters have confirmed the proposed contract:

3) Add an automatic gratuity for guests use the DDE card.

On that one they are cutting out 2% gratuity with a lot of patrons. We generally just add back the 20% when an automatic tip is not added.

We were a party of 6 at Planet Hollywood last May using DDE. They added an automatic 18% gratuity. We left nothing extra. If they had not added the auto gratuity they would have gotten the discount back. I told the manager as such and he thanked me for my comment.

Lewisc
05-23-2007, 10:39 AM
Many posters do the exact same thing you do, add back the discount as a TIP.

The union wouldn't be negotiating for an "automatic tip" for DDE guests, and for parties of 6 or more, if those groups were consistently tipping 18% +.

Last year I ate at Chefs. Half our group was on the DDP and we ordered wine. The server could have added the 18% automatic gratuity but left the tip off one of the checks. He made a point of telling us that. The server, correctly, assumed we'd be tipping more than 18%.



On that one they are cutting out 2% gratuity with a lot of patrons. We generally just add back the 20% when an automatic tip is not added.

We were a party of 6 at Planet Hollywood last May using DDE. They added an automatic 18% gratuity. We left nothing extra. If they had not added the auto gratuity they would have gotten the discount back. I told the manager as such and he thanked me for my comment.

nbodyhome
05-23-2007, 12:41 PM
If Disney continues to do the dining plan, I'd prefer to see the price raised to include the tips (to make sure the servers are covered).

DisneyGirl4188
05-23-2007, 01:06 PM
If Disney continues to do the dining plan, I'd prefer to see the price raised to include the tips (to make sure the servers are covered).

Me too.

I just want them to keep the plan. :)

JimMIA
05-23-2007, 01:15 PM
If Disney continues to do the dining plan, I'd prefer to see the price raised to include the tips (to make sure the servers are covered).
Be careful what you wish for...

Lewisc's math above looks pretty accurate to me, and if he's right, you're looking at $46.99-48.99 price to accomplish the same thing as eliminating the included gratuity.

nbodyhome
05-23-2007, 01:25 PM
Be careful what you wish for...

Lewisc's math above looks pretty accurate to me, and if he's right, you're looking at $46.99-48.99 price to accomplish the same thing as eliminating the included gratuity.

Those who are dining would be paying that much anyway, if they are tipping properly.

I don't personally know how Disney is making much money on the dining plan (except that a lot of meals sometimes stay behind, I know people who have not used up everything they've paid for). But the dining plan is $39.00. If a travel agent booked it, then that is $4.00 gone off the top. Someone having a $50.00 meal, that is $9.00 tipped to the server that Disney has to pay. That doesn't include snack, counter service, and the meal itself. Disney also pays commissions to agents at DRC for booking well, so that eats away from the amount also.

Either way - I'd like to make sure the waiters are taken care of. They do VERY well on the dining plan, but it might go completely the opposite way if the tips were removed.

JimMIA
05-23-2007, 01:58 PM
Those who are dining would be paying that much anyway, if they are tipping properly.Oh, I don't know... We're currently paying $38.99 and we typically leave $5 extra tip (often more) to bring the total tip to or above 20%. We also order desserts we have no intention of eating to drive up the total tip for the server. They work hard for their money, and we want to be sure they get it.:) With 2A/1C, we're only paying about $42 or so per adult now. That's a long way from $49.

However, many people tip 15% (which is an okay tip) and feel that 18% is generous...at $38.99. Some (not me) think 18% is too high.

Others think they should pay the tip based on what they paid for DDP, not on the make-believe prices on the menu. In other words, they agree with the approach the non-Disney restaurants take -- the meal is $25.00, the tip is $4.50, no matter what the menu price is. I don't agree with that, but there are those who do.

I don't personally know how Disney is making much money on the dining plan.I don't think they are, or ever intended to. But I think they'd like to make it revenue-neutral, or maybe turn a small profit if they could.

If you go back a few years in WDW history, you'll recall a few inconvenient hurricanes. That's what spawned the DDP, not the prospect of getting rich in the restaurants. DDP was originally, and still is mostly, a hotel promotion -- not a dining promotion. When the Orlando area tourism industry was dying two years ago, DDP allowed Disney to fare much better than anyone else. DDP is just one of several initiatives Disney has tried (DME is another) to lure people onsite and keep them there.

We tend to evaluate this issue on the impact on us personally, or in terms of our concern for the CMs. Most of us who go to WDW regularly have a soft spot in our hearts for "our" CMs. But to Disney, this is just an MBA money puzzle. What's the impact on revenue? What's the impact on income? As long as DDP offers better revenue and income, we'll have DDP. The instant some other program offers a better return, DDP will be history.

nbodyhome
05-23-2007, 02:09 PM
If you go back a few years in WDW history, you'll recall a few inconvenient hurricanes. That's what spawned the DDP, not the prospect of getting rich in the restaurants. .

I live in the Orlando area. Being that I've been through the hurricanes, I also remember how slow it's been before them. Late August/early September has always been slow at the resorts, and usually there have been terrific discounts for passholders and Florida residents.

There couldn't have been a free DDP before 2005 because there wasn't a DDP at all before then. There was a Silver Plan, a Gold Plan, etc. From what I personally understand, giving the plan free is to get guests to buy it the next time (and many, many do). And then the guests stay onsite and don't go elsewhere. So in the end, even if Disney makes no money off the dining plan, it's a way for guests to stay onsite - pay money for the hotel rooms and tickets, etc.

I don't agree with paying on the $25.00 or so on the menu. I would expect to pay between 15 and 20% tip on the menu prices if paying cash (which I usually do), whether the prices are higher than real-world prices - which they are - or not. Sometimes the servers do get double tipped now because guests don't realize the tips are included. I'd rather the servers get extra instead of none because some guests don't give them anything at all.

suzannews
05-23-2007, 06:01 PM
Interesting. If it's permissible for you to do so, can you tell us whether you have -- in fact, not rumor -- been presented with a contract to vote on which eliminates the included 18% gratuity in the DDP?

Don't put yourself in jeopardy, but if it's okay, we'd all appreciate whatever you can tell us. Thanks, and we'll take care of you guys either way!


Jim several posters have confirmed the proposed contract:
1) Got rid of the included gratuity for DDP guests
2) Now add an automatic gratuity for parties of 6 or more (currently 8 or more)
3) Add an automatic gratuity for guests use the DDE card.





JimMIA,

I'm not sure what I am aloud to say and not say but it looks like Lewisc has some good information.

JimMIA
05-23-2007, 06:19 PM
JimMIA,

I'm not sure what I am aloud to say and not say but it looks like Lewisc has some good information.
Thanks Suzanne. We'll just have to see what happens. Hopefully it will work out for all of us.

surfergrl31
05-24-2007, 09:49 AM
In my email to disney I explained to them that with changes in the dinning plan, it would no longer be a deal just really an easy way to vacation. I pointed out to them and the castmemeber I talked to with all of the resorts in the area, usually much more price friendly, this is only going to result in me spending more of my money offsite. I can get better quality and better quantity for my money off site and see some sites I have never bothered seeing in fear I would take away from my disney vacation.

IMO I would like to see an actual breakdown instead of percentage to tip my servers. For example if my dinning plan cost a total of 1000 for my entire trip, then 400 of that would be for tipping (I am making rough estimates here so no flaming). Then I could decide at each meal if the service was worth 18% or on like the one occasion I had at Coral Reef I would choose to pay only 15% reflecting the service. The end result the servers that were outstanding would benefit and at the end of my vacation if I still had money left over that I didn't tip (probably wouldn't happen) disney would just pocket a profit.

I know disney is always changing things to make it more appealing for people to stay on property, but this is one time where "if it's not broke, don't fix it!"

Does anyone know how soon this decision might be made? I am hoping for an extra trip in Feb. 08, but this might send me to thinking about renting a house instead.

bicker
05-25-2007, 05:07 AM
I'd expect to see a definitive answer provided in June or July, when MYW packages for 2008 are released to the public.

RachelEllen
05-25-2007, 05:47 AM
The other advantage to removing the gratuity is that it's an incentive for people to order less. Disney is not only making back the money they are not spending on a tip, by making people 15 - 20% responsible for what they order, they can assume a significant decrease in people trying to 'get the most' for the plan.

Katiebell
05-25-2007, 12:42 PM
The other advantage to removing the gratuity is that it's an incentive for people to order less. Disney is not only making back the money they are not spending on a tip, by making people 15 - 20% responsible for what they order, they can assume a significant decrease in people trying to 'get the most' for the plan.

Absolutely, very good point. Not only will people think twice about ordering all the courses, appetizer and dessert if they are not really hungry enough to eat them all, they might also become more price conscious of the entrees if they are going to have to pay the tip OOP. If I don't order the appetizer, and DH doesn't order the dessert and we share those two courses, and we both get pasta or chicken for $15 instead of steak for $28, then we still used our TS credits but Disney saves money on what they served us, and we will pay much less OOP for the tip. Then the DDP becomes less and less of a good deal, and I don't know if the convenience alone is worth the cost.

calypso*a*go-go
05-25-2007, 01:03 PM
Then the DDP becomes less and less of a good deal, and I don't know if the convenience alone is worth the cost.

Exactly!!! Right now most of the cost savings comes from ordering everything that is allowed and being able to pick from the more expensive menu items. If you don't do that, you might be in a situation where you barely break even using the DDP (which is probably what Disney intended from the get-go!). I'm sure when the plan was envisioned no one realized how quickly people would find so many loop holes that would allow getting even more value out of it (sharing, using child credits for adult meals, etc). I personally feel this is one marketing scheme that really backfired.

nbodyhome
05-25-2007, 01:12 PM
I don't see many guests changing what value they would want to get with the dining plan. If I was paying for it (and I don't), then I would still want to order more expensive items to make up for the cost.

JimMIA
05-25-2007, 03:17 PM
Exactly!!! Right now most of the cost savings comes from ordering everything that is allowed and being able to pick from the more expensive menu items.I look at DDP "value" completely differently. I don't compare menu prices to DDP costs for two reasons: 1) the menu prices are significantly overpriced to begin with, and 2) we would never order an appy, entree and desert at every TS meal. To me, the value to my family is the cost of what we would actually spend paying cash minus the cost of the DDP. If DDP costs less than our anticipated cash expenditures, it's a bargain. If not, it's not a bargain and we don't buy it.

Realistically, paying OOP, we don't eat CS at all and we don't snack much, so I don't consider those costs. Although some folks use the full array of menu prices to DDP and figure they save enough to retire the national debt, I figure we save $100 or so on each 4-5 day trip. By save, I mean we actually lay out fewer dollars than we would have without DDP.

I don't think cost is the only benefit to us -- we also enjoy the convenience, the ability to try other restaurants we haven't tried, and the fact that the dining is somewhat upgraded from what we would usually do at WDW. If the tip is removed and the savings becomes a net cost, we'll have to evaluate whether the net cost is worth the intangibles. For us, I suspect it will not be worth it.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens and then re-do the math.

bicker
05-25-2007, 03:36 PM
Then the DDP becomes less and less of a good deal, and I don't know if the convenience alone is worth the cost.However, that's really the point: Right now I believe the Dining Plan is under-priced. The magic :wizard: is how Disney will increase prices/reduce value provided just-the-right-amount to bring the price better in line with the value.

Katiebell
05-25-2007, 03:51 PM
However, that's really the point: Right now I believe the Dining Plan is under-priced. The magic :wizard: is how Disney will increase prices/reduce value provided just-the-right-amount to bring the price better in line with the value.

I agree that the Dining Plan is under-priced if it is used wisely and people don't have leftover credits at the end of their trips -- if it isn't used efficiently, it can end up being very costly. However, it is being marketed as a way to "save up to 40% on dining". The lower that savings is, the closer the guest comes to the break-even point, the less appealing the plan becomes. The dining plan does have it's downsides; it makes the guests sort of a captive audience at WDW, because if you leave and go offsite, you may waste credits for which you've already paid. Without the plan, you can eat what you want when you want (provided you can get into a restaurant), and there is no obligation to use up all of your credits so you don't waste your money. If you can't get into a restaurant or can't find anything that's appealing to you, then there are some great CS restaurants, or if you have transportation, you could go offsite -- and Disney doesn't want that! :laughing:

If the included gratuities are dropped, then the cash value of the plan for the customer is lower (OOP cost will be higher), and they will also have to carry cash and calculate tips, reducing the convenience factor (another significant value of the plan). DL has a dining plan of sorts, or at least they used to -- but it was something like pay $20 for $25 worth of meal vouchers, and there was no change given -- it's probably much closer to equal for cost/value, and not popular at all. Hardly anyone likes it or wants to bother with it, because it's just not worth the hassle.

JimMIA
05-25-2007, 03:55 PM
...The dining plan does have it's downsides; it makes the guests sort of a captive audience at WDW, because if you leave and go offsite, you may waste credits for which you've already paid. Without the plan, you can eat what you want when you want (provided you can get into a restaurant), and there is no obligation to use up all of your credits so you don't waste your money. If you can't get into a restaurant or can't find anything that's appealing to you, then there are some great CS restaurants, or if you have transportation, you could go offsite -- and Disney doesn't want that! :laughing: That's not a downside, Katie! That's the whole point of DDP!:rotfl:

bicker
05-26-2007, 05:05 AM
The object is still to have the price reflect the value, not for the plan to result in Disney getting less revenue than if they didn't have the plan. The 40% is the difference between what the offering costs and how much money it would cost if you maxed out totally and paid OOP. We all know that that's not what most people will do.

SassyLassy
05-28-2007, 04:24 PM
Great info! Thanks for the update!! :goodvibes

kimberh
05-28-2007, 10:52 PM
We just came home from Disney, We noticed some of the food being decreased in some of the restaurants. All the complaining of to much food, is being noticed. I sure hope the DDP is not increased with to much. I will be one that will go back to the old way. We always ate some of our meals in the room or off site.

Katiebell
05-29-2007, 12:10 AM
The object is still to have the price reflect the value, not for the plan to result in Disney getting less revenue than if they didn't have the plan. The 40% is the difference between what the offering costs and how much money it would cost if you maxed out totally and paid OOP. We all know that that's not what most people will do.

Then maybe Disney should stop marketing it as a way to save up to 40% on dining, because they are advertising it as a way for people to save money on their vacations. Perhaps they should just market it as a way to prepay for your meals, and the value you get is equal to the price you pay.

I just looked up Disneyland's "dining plan", which is basically prepaid meals. There are several different options, but as an example, for $86.95 (2005 prices), an adult gets:
1 - Character Breakfast
1 - Breakfast in the Park
3 - $5.00 Vouchers
2 - $10.00 Vouchers
1 - $15.00 Voucher

The vouchers aren't good at DTD, and you can't get change back on the vouchers. Goofy's Kitchen is the most expensive character meal, and if you eat any other character breakfast, you actually end up losing money on the plan. Not a very good deal, and needless to say it isn't popular. I don't know anyone who's actually bought it. But, Disney could certainly say that the value does not exceed the price.

just another guy
05-29-2007, 12:40 AM
If the included gratuities are dropped, then the cash value of the plan for the customer is lower (OOP cost will be higher), and they will also have to carry cash and calculate tips, reducing the convenience factor (another significant value of the plan).

Not really. The current proposal(that was voted down, so who knows what it may change to) has an area on the check which would say something like, "Your check is $100, a 15% tip would be $15, a 18% tip would be $18, or a 20% tip would be $20." Thats disney's way of making it easy for the stupid.

Katiebell
05-29-2007, 01:44 AM
Not really. The current proposal(that was voted down, so who knows what it may change to) has an area on the check which would say something like, "Your check is $100, a 15% tip would be $15, a 18% tip would be $18, or a 20% tip would be $20." Thats disney's way of making it easy for the stupid.

I am sure you didn't mean this quite as...harsh...as it sounds. :rolleyes1

Your check is 87.52. Quick, what's 15%? What's 18%?

Your check is 42.95. Quick, what's 15%? What's 18%?

Your check is 136.27. Quick, what's 15%? What's 18%?

Don't feel bad. If you had to think for a moment, I won't consider you to be stupid -- and I promise not to proofread your post for spelling and grammatical errors :) I just estimate anyway -- 10% + half again for a 15% tip, 20% if the service was exceptional, rounding up if appropriate. But it's still a bit more hassle than having the tip included -- and a great deal more expensive. For those three meals mentioned above, that's $48 extra OOP for 18% tips. Hey, I could buy a Dole Whip and a bottle of water for that kind of money...

If the current proposal which would eliminate the included gratuity was to also include a note on the check telling the guest exactly what a 15% or an 18% tip would be, then that certainly would have been helpful. But it still doesn't change the fact that it would be a hassle to carry cash to tip OOP and it would make dining considerably more costly for the guest.

bicker
05-29-2007, 04:59 AM
Then maybe Disney should stop marketing it as a way to save up to 40% on diningI don't see why. There is a way to accomplish what they're suggesting, and suggesting it does foster sales. It is extremely common -- pretty much standard practice -- for advertising to focus on the positive aspects of the offering.

surfergrl31
05-29-2007, 08:47 AM
If you are going on prices alone at TS resturants, then the dp does save you money. Most people like myself, realized at places like Coral Reef, that the quality of the food isn't matching the price. You do save money when you consider you are ordering an app, meal, and dessert. Certain places like that you would probably have to order that to have a decent meal anyway. If I was paying OOP, I certainly wouldn't order all that food every single time.

So looking at just prices yes you do save money, but looking at the reality of it you really aren't. The prices are over inflated which makes you think you are getting a deal, when in reality a little bit of planning you could fare much better. It is still a matter of convience and besides most guests aren't going to complain about the food or lack there of since they think they are going to get such a great deal.

New slogan idea for ddp:

**Save up to 40% on dinning for food that is marked up 100%**

Seems a lot less appealing doesn't it? There will always be people like me who will prefer to have it paid ahead of time for ease of the plan. Disney knows that, so until it becomes a major issue of concern they will keep advertising it as a value since the major factor is being met. It is keeping guests in the parks to spend more money instead of being off site.

Katiebell
05-29-2007, 09:12 AM
New slogan idea for ddp:

**Save up to 40% on dinning for food that is marked up 100%**

Ah...Truth in Advertising! :rotfl2:

averysmom
05-29-2007, 09:34 AM
I think that the poor servers are going to LOSE out on tips.

When we did free dining last year, usually left an extra 5-8 every time we ate (with a 18 month old and a 4 year old any server who attempts to entertain them or clean up after them automatically deserves some extra:lmao: )

but I think that I - and other dissers who do the same - are in the minority.

I think that if the DDP becomes gratuity excluded that 5-8 dollars is all the servers will get at ALL.

When I was a server - no matter how many times you put on the bill - please tip before coupon - very rarely does anyone do so because they don't want to tip on free food.

Ppl see the DDP as free food - because it's already paid for. Sorry - but I think that the servers will be LUCKY to get 10% out of the majority of ppl - especially from out of the country guests - Europeans already don't understand the whole "tip thing" because it's included over there and Canadians tip 12-15% as GOOD tips because our servers get paid minimum wage (8.00/hour).

It'll be interesting to see what comes of it!

calypso*a*go-go
05-29-2007, 10:05 AM
As far as the union vote goes...what is the real issue? I still feel the gratuity on DDP is just a bargaining tool. I would feel better about the whole thing if I knew that they (the servers) agreed to the change because they are getting better benefits of some kind. Does anyone really know and can you say?

hansel1
05-29-2007, 01:46 PM
Not really. The current proposal(that was voted down, so who knows what it may change to) has an area on the check which would say something like, "Your check is $100, a 15% tip would be $15, a 18% tip would be $18, or a 20% tip would be $20." Thats disney's way of making it easy for the stupid.

If stupid = drunk, then yes disney did that for me because after a few beers and a long day in one of the parks, i can't count to ten much less figure percentages.

THANK YOU DISNEY FOR THINKING OF THE SLOW and for thinking of the DRUNK.

JimMIA
05-29-2007, 02:23 PM
When I was a server - no matter how many times you put on the bill - please tip before coupon - very rarely does anyone do so because they don't want to tip on free food.I agree, and there are some who feel if a meal is discounted, they should NOT be expected to tip on the "sticker price" of the meal. That's not me, but some feel that way.Ppl see the DDP as free food - because it's already paid for. Sorry - but I think that the servers will be LUCKY to get 10% out of the majority of pplI am afraid you are right on this. There's no nice way to say it, but DDP does attract people to restaurants who would not normally order meals which cost $75-100 for two people. Nor would they normally tip 18-20%. They will realize the food is considerably overpriced, and they're going to tip 10-15% of what they think the meal should cost at home.

In addition, the servers will get hurt in another way.

If the gratuity is taken out, many people will find that DDP simply no longer makes sense for them. Unlike the group above, these people know what good dining costs and don't begrudge a server a decent tip. They are also too savvy to be tricked by marketing claims of 40% savings, so they'll have a much clearer idea of the value of the DDP to them. They won't eat in Disney restaurants nearly as much as they do now...if at all.

You never make very good tips on people who eat in someone else's restaurant!

Lewisc
05-29-2007, 02:30 PM
Guests who take advantage of a coupon, such as Entertainment Books BOGO program, are encouraged to base their tip on the cost of the meal prior to the discount being applied. Same thing with coupons for a free dessert or appetizer.

Some guests take advantage of an early bird dinner special. Others take advantage of a price fixed dinner special. Those guests aren't normally expected to calculate the a la carte equivalent price but rather base their tip on the menu price of the dinner special.

One could disagree as to which category DDP belongs. A server insists I order an dessert or appetizer since "it's included". I would probably reduce my TIP in that circumstance, probably not lower then 15% of the entire cost of my meal.

I think servers would get hurt if the DDP is no longer included with the plan.


I agree, and there are some who feel if a meal is discounted, they should NOT be expected to tip on the "sticker price" of the meal. That's not me, but some feel that way.I am afraid you are right on this. There's no nice way to say it, but DDP does attract people to restaurants who would not normally order meals which cost $75-100 for two people. Nor would they normally tip 18-20%. They will realize the food is considerably overpriced, and they're going to tip 10-15% of what they think the meal should cost at home.

In addition, the servers will get hurt in another way.

If the gratuity is taken out, many people will find that DDP simply no longer makes sense for them. Unlike the group above, these people know what good dining costs and don't begrudge a server a decent tip. They are also too savvy to be tricked by marketing claims of 40% savings, so they'll have a much clearer idea of the value of the DDP to them. They won't eat in Disney restaurants nearly as much as they do now...if at all.

You never make very good tips on people who eat in someone else's restaurant!

just another guy
05-29-2007, 05:16 PM
Your check is 87.52. Quick, what's 15%? What's 18%?

Your check is 42.95. Quick, what's 15%? What's 18%?

Your check is 136.27. Quick, what's 15%? What's 18%?

I just estimate anyway -- 10% + half again for a 15% tip, 20% if the service was exceptional, rounding up if appropriate.

You are correct, I can't tell you exact figures, but I can easily 10% and go from there like you said. I can also tell you servers don't care about getting an exact percentage. Having been a server in the past, I know very well there are a LOT of stupid people out there. I worked with people who if the bill was 73.64, and you gave them $100, they couldn't figure out the amount of change owed without a calculator.

But it still doesn't change the fact that it would be a hassle to carry cash to tip OOP

Nothing is set in stone, but only .0001 percent of people pay for their entire stay in cash. The other 99.9999% use a credit card of some sort. If disney does drop the grat, I'm pretty sure they will require you to have a credit card attached to the account, thus you just write in the tips.

LandBoatRide
06-06-2007, 12:23 PM
Just as an update, there is a second vote on the new Disney/union contract today. The first vote last month rejected the proposed contract. Of course, this vote covers everyone (characters, bus drivers, etc. etc.)- its relevance here is the food servers contract and future of gratuity in DDP.

Despite the title of this thread, the gratuity WILL disappear from the dining plan beginning January 1st if this contract vote passes today. The name of the dining plan may change, but it will be the same deal for the same price, only gratuity would no longer be included at table service meals.

If this passes, here is the new reality: servers will be forced to solicit tips (i.e. "I know in past years my tip was included, but now it isnt.") how awkward for both server and guest! Dining plan guests will now either have to carry cash for tips (so long convenience!), run a charge card to charge a tip (so long server efficiency - they will be too bogged down running resort id cards and charge cards and spend less time serving their guests - not their fault) or stiff the server. Parties of 6 or more will now be charged the auto 18% gratuity.

Some will say "good! I want to determine what % those lousy servers get anyway". The flip side is that if servers routinely get stiffed from 4-course ddp guests because they forgot to bring cash, the overall level of service to ddp guests may suffer.


Stay tuned for updates this week on the vote outcome.

just another guy
06-06-2007, 05:50 PM
I said it a while ago that the grat would be gone, but a lot of people wanted to aruge otherwise. :sad2:


If this passes, here is the new reality: servers will be forced to solicit tips (i.e. "I know in past years my tip was included, but now it isnt.") how awkward for both server and guest! Dining plan guests will now either have to carry cash for tips (so long convenience!), run a charge card to charge a tip (so long server efficiency - they will be too bogged down running resort id cards and charge cards and spend less time serving their guests - not their fault) or stiff the server. Parties of 6 or more will now be charged the auto 18% gratuity.

Some will say "good! I want to determine what % those lousy servers get anyway". The flip side is that if servers routinely get stiffed from 4-course ddp guests because they forgot to bring cash, the overall level of service to ddp guests may suffer.

Well unless disney is dumber than I thought, they should simply REQUIRE a credit card be linked to guests IDs, thus when they are swiped for the dining plan, it automatically records the quests credit card number, and is ready for a tip.

Service won't drop overall, servers may just start looking upon dining plan guests as second rate guests if the tips drop. Ex: A server at Ohana's gets two tables at the same time, while they are extremely busy. One table comes there yearly and loves it. That should be a safe bet for a decent tip if service is on par. The other table has never been there before and is on the dining plan. The server has already in past weeks determined that tips are declining per dining plan guests. As stated, the server is very busy, and doesn't have time to get perfect service to both guests. Its common sense to go for the table not on the dining plan.

Good Ol Gal
06-06-2007, 05:59 PM
I said it a while ago that the grat would be gone, but a lot of people wanted to aruge otherwise. :sad2:



Well unless disney is dumber than I thought, they should simply REQUIRE a credit card be linked to guests IDs, thus when they are swiped for the dining plan, it automatically records the quests credit card number, and is ready for a tip.

Service won't drop overall, servers may just start looking upon dining plan guests as second rate guests if the tips drop. Ex: A server at Ohana's gets two tables at the same time, while they are extremely busy. One table comes there yearly and loves it. That should be a safe bet for a decent tip if service is on par. The other table has never been there before and is on the dining plan. The server has already in past weeks determined that tips are declining per dining plan guests. As stated, the server is very busy, and doesn't have time to get perfect service to both guests. Its common sense to go for the table not on the dining plan.

We go every year and love it, and we do the dining plan! So, since my server sees that I'm on the plan it means they should assume that I won't be a good tipper. :confused3

:idea: Maybe they should put on your KTTK card how many times you've visited then they server wouldn't have to guess! Then they could just ignore the new guests and take care of the regulars. :sad2:

I don't know if we'd do the plan if the gratuity isn't included, I just hope that if it does change Disney makes all guests aware of it so the servers won't get stiffed.

just another guy
06-06-2007, 06:40 PM
We go every year and love it, and we do the dining plan! So, since my server sees that I'm on the plan it means they should assume that I won't be a good tipper. :confused3

:idea: Maybe they should put on your KTTK card how many times you've visited then they server wouldn't have to guess! Then they could just ignore the new guests and take care of the regulars. :sad2:

I don't know if we'd do the plan if the gratuity isn't included, I just hope that if it does change Disney makes all guests aware of it so the servers won't get stiffed.

Maybe you should work on your reading skills. In my example, you missed one key aspect...

The server has already in past weeks determined that tips are declining per dining plan guests.

The servers are not there to make magic, there are there for the tips. When the grat gets dropped, IF the servers's overall tip average drops then yes, its fair to believe that their servers for other dining plan guests could drop as well.

LandBoatRide
06-06-2007, 06:42 PM
We go every year and love it, and we do the dining plan! So, since my server sees that I'm on the plan it means they should assume that I won't be a good tipper. :confused3

:idea: Maybe they should put on your KTTK card how many times you've visited then they server wouldn't have to guess! Then they could just ignore the new guests and take care of the regulars. :sad2:

I don't know if we'd do the plan if the gratuity isn't included, I just hope that if it does change Disney makes all guests aware of it so the servers won't get stiffed.

I agree, lets hope Disney makes things easy in this proposed transition.

I think the point of the post is that IF, I say IF, DDP guests start stiffing servers (not that they currently do now or are the sort of people that would - this is just a hypothetical IF)...IF that happens, then servers' service to DDP is likely to spiral downward.

I personally don't think DDP guests will stiff servers if Disney makes it easy and well-known for tips to be added. The fear is that Disney will not easily link the credit card to the DDP resort card (some guests now have no charging ability - will it become mandatory??) Then, if a guest forgot to bring cash, how would they tip???

So, IF that happend and IF servers started being stiffed by DDP guests (even if the guests didnt know they were stiffing or didnt want to), THEN ddp guests may get a bad reputation (whether fair or not). If I were a server and I routinely got stiffed by ddp guests after taking them out all that food of a 3 or 4 course meal, then yeh, I would probably hold a grudge and use common sense to provide best service to those who are paying in a manner that allows a tip to be added.

Union voting of course is today and results will be known tomorrow. Stay tuned.

suzannews
06-06-2007, 10:31 PM
My husband said he just heard on the news that the contract passed.

Disneyserver
06-06-2007, 10:48 PM
I know ya I used to work with you at the Hotel, It sucks The Grat will be removed on the DDP

chasgoose
06-07-2007, 12:50 AM
Just as an update, there is a second vote on the new Disney/union contract today. The first vote last month rejected the proposed contract. Of course, this vote covers everyone (characters, bus drivers, etc. etc.)- its relevance here is the food servers contract and future of gratuity in DDP.

Despite the title of this thread, the gratuity WILL disappear from the dining plan beginning January 1st if this contract vote passes today. The name of the dining plan may change, but it will be the same deal for the same price, only gratuity would no longer be included at table service meals.

If this passes, here is the new reality: servers will be forced to solicit tips (i.e. "I know in past years my tip was included, but now it isnt.") how awkward for both server and guest! Dining plan guests will now either have to carry cash for tips (so long convenience!), run a charge card to charge a tip (so long server efficiency - they will be too bogged down running resort id cards and charge cards and spend less time serving their guests - not their fault) or stiff the server. Parties of 6 or more will now be charged the auto 18% gratuity.

Some will say "good! I want to determine what % those lousy servers get anyway". The flip side is that if servers routinely get stiffed from 4-course ddp guests because they forgot to bring cash, the overall level of service to ddp guests may suffer.


Stay tuned for updates this week on the vote outcome.

I feel like Disney will come up with some system to deal with this. They could just do an expanded version of the hotel room charge system where if you are buying something or eating at a hotel where you are also staying you can simply charge things up to your room. Since all DDP people are WDW resort guests they could just do something like that and when it comes time to check out, your DDP tips will be included.

Also, if anyone has an alcoholic beverage, the OOP paying would already be a problem anyways.

Disneyserver
06-07-2007, 12:57 AM
Disney is Not including any type of Grat on DDP come Jan 1st 2008 The guest will be responsible to pay for it if they choose which we hope they will, and Disney cannot do anything like you suggested unless it was in the union contract, they laid out there plan to us on paper, a legal binding contract. which most of The servers on property Voted No for.:mad:

chasgoose
06-07-2007, 01:33 AM
Disney is Not including any type of Grat on DDP come Jan 1st 2008 The guest will be responsible to pay for it if they choose which we hope they will, and Disney cannot do anything like you suggested unless it was in the union contract, they laid out there plan to us on paper, a legal binding contract. which most of The servers on property Voted No for.:mad:

I understand that tips aren't included. I was responding to the worry that there will be no way to pay for tips and that waiters will be stiffed because guests didn't bring cash/don't want to put the tip on a credit card. Just like at any resort, they could just charge it to their room bill. It wouldn't even have to be a KTTW thing. The guests could determine how much they wanted to tip after each meal like in normal restaurants and then instead of paying those tips OOP right then, they would just be added to their hotel bill and they could pay it when they check out. To the servers it would be no different than any other tip, they will get their money. It's just the diners who would pay Disney later.

As long as Disney makes it clear that the DDP doesn't include tip (and believe me there will be a big deal made about it) this should only be a problem for a temporary period. Yes it will be awkward for servers to remind guests that the DDP doesn't include tip anymore, but I am sure that Disney will stress that fact in other ways too so its not just the servers responsibility. As long as Disney makes it easy for the DDP people to pay the tips, eventually guests would come to accept the gratuity situation and accept it. This will not remain a permanent problem.

As far as printing the tip amounts on the receipt, I personally (and many people I know) appreciate that and it is becoming a more common practice in restaurants. Since it is assumed by Americans that you tip servers, I don't see it as rude or soliciting to include tip amounts, I appreciate not having to think about it.

Uncleromulus
06-07-2007, 04:52 AM
I guess we'll have to wait and see how it all works out.
I think a fair # of guests are on the DDP to save $$$ and having the tip included did just that. Now that they "have" to tip (and still pay the same price for DDP), it won't be as much of a savings--unless thay "save" by tipping less than 18%.

rubbergypsy
06-07-2007, 06:57 AM
you know that there will be notices all over stating that there is no gratuity when you use the dining plan and to tip accordingly.

skater
06-07-2007, 07:14 AM
With the errors certain restaurants have made in charging dining plan meals to key cards, there is no way I want those charging priveleges added to my card. :rotfl:

Basically, Disney has spoiled me with the dining plan the way it is, and as much as I love Disney, this change will make me go elsewhere next year (unless its free again).

Disneyserver
06-07-2007, 07:20 AM
With the errors certain restaurants have made in charging dining plan meals to key cards, there is no way I want those charging priveleges added to my card. :rotfl:

Basically, Disney has spoiled me with the dining plan the way it is, and as much as I love Disney, this change will make me go elsewhere next year (unless its free again).

OK THIS IS THE TOUGH CONVO, BUT HERE IT IS, BEFORE DISNEY STARTED DOING FREE DDP IN THE SLOW MONTHS OF THE YEAR IN AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER, THEY USED TO REDUCE THE PRICE OF THE HOTEL ROOMS DURING THAT TIME OF THE YEAR, BUT SOMEONE GOT SMART AND DECIDED TO INCLUDE THE DDP FOR FREE AND CHARGE THE FULL PRICE FOR THE RESORT ROOMS, SO DISNEY IS NOT LOSING ANYTHING, SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THE GUEST IS NOT REALLY WINNING A FREE MEAL IF THEY COME DURING THIS HOT MUGGY HUMID TIME OF YEAR. DISNEY IS A SMART COMPANY REMEBER ITS A BILLION DOLLAR CORPORATION THAT RUINES WALT DISNEY'S ORIGINAL DREAM

nbodyhome
06-07-2007, 07:25 AM
OK THIS IS THE TOUGH CONVO, BUT HERE IT IS, BEFORE DISNEY STARTED DOING FREE DDP IN THE SLOW MONTHS OF THE YEAR IN AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER, THEY USED TO REDUCE THE PRICE OF THE HOTEL ROOMS DURING THAT TIME OF THE YEAR, BUT SOMEONE GOT SMART AND DECIDED TO INCLUDE THE DDP FOR FREE AND CHARGE THE FULL PRICE FOR THE RESORT ROOMS, SO DISNEY IS NOT LOSING ANYTHING, SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THE GUEST IS NOT REALLY WINNING A FREE MEAL IF THEY COME DURING THIS HOT MUGGY HUMID TIME OF YEAR. DISNEY IS A SMART COMPANY REMEBER ITS A BILLION DOLLAR CORPORATION THAT RUINES WALT DISNEY'S ORIGINAL DREAM

A LOT of the guests doing free dining have it with the value resorts. A family of 4 is at least $100.00 on the dine plan, the room is $82.00 for a standard value room at that time. I think Disney isn't quite gaining there.

I think that having to tip will make a difference whether guests get the dining plan. I think Disney should have just raised the price a little to compensate for tips, to ensure that the servers received their money. It's odd that they are planning to start adding tips on the DDE bills (if that is the case) and take it off of the dining plan.

shellybaxter
06-07-2007, 08:19 AM
OK THIS IS THE TOUGH CONVO, BUT HERE IT IS, BEFORE DISNEY STARTED DOING FREE DDP IN THE SLOW MONTHS OF THE YEAR IN AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER, THEY USED TO REDUCE THE PRICE OF THE HOTEL ROOMS DURING THAT TIME OF THE YEAR, BUT SOMEONE GOT SMART AND DECIDED TO INCLUDE THE DDP FOR FREE AND CHARGE THE FULL PRICE FOR THE RESORT ROOMS, SO DISNEY IS NOT LOSING ANYTHING, SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THE GUEST IS NOT REALLY WINNING A FREE MEAL IF THEY COME DURING THIS HOT MUGGY HUMID TIME OF YEAR. DISNEY IS A SMART COMPANY REMEBER ITS A BILLION DOLLAR CORPORATION THAT RUINES WALT DISNEY'S ORIGINAL DREAM

Do you realize that when you type in all caps you are yelling at people?

Lewisc
06-07-2007, 09:38 AM
Disney has always offered great promotions during the "hurricane season". Past promotions included room discounts of 40-45% and a pay for 4 play for 7promotion. Free dining got guests paying full price for the room but getting food. A family of 4A, w parents and 2 teenagers, got food worth more then $150. The value of the food exceed the room price at a value resort and was basically the same as the room price in a moderate resort. Many of us thought that was a very generous program.

Time will tell what promotion Disney uses next year.




OK THIS IS THE TOUGH CONVO, BUT HERE IT IS, BEFORE DISNEY STARTED DOING FREE DDP IN THE SLOW MONTHS OF THE YEAR IN AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER, THEY USED TO REDUCE THE PRICE OF THE HOTEL ROOMS DURING THAT TIME OF THE YEAR, BUT SOMEONE GOT SMART AND DECIDED TO INCLUDE THE DDP FOR FREE AND CHARGE THE FULL PRICE FOR THE RESORT ROOMS, SO DISNEY IS NOT LOSING ANYTHING, SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THE GUEST IS NOT REALLY WINNING A FREE MEAL IF THEY COME DURING THIS HOT MUGGY HUMID TIME OF YEAR. DISNEY IS A SMART COMPANY REMEBER ITS A BILLION DOLLAR CORPORATION THAT RUINES WALT DISNEY'S ORIGINAL DREAM

nbodyhome
06-07-2007, 09:59 AM
I don't much think of it as hurricane as "back to school season". It's already hurricane season, but everyone seems to wait for "events" now. Flower and Garden Festival, Food and Wine, Christmas, Star Wars Weekends, etc. So much of the year is based on events, and September really isn't event driven at all (they used to have Disneyana, which brought in some extra crowds - but not tons there either).

Praying Colonel
06-07-2007, 10:05 AM
I guess we'll have to wait and see how it all works out.
I think a fair # of guests are on the DDP to save $$$ and having the tip included did just that. Now that they "have" to tip (and still pay the same price for DDP), it won't be as much of a savings--unless thay "save" by tipping less than 18%.

Yep--if the rumored changes go into effect, it seems like the only parties taking a hit (a substantial one at that) are those who leave a tip and the servers who get stiffed on tips.

Those who stiff their servers won't feel a hit, and WDW won't feel a hit--unless a large % of people quit staying onsite (which is a distinct possibility for our family) in order to use the DDP. If their room occupancy drops significantly as a result of this change (again, assuming it happens), then I could see WDW possibly going back to the plan as currently constituted.

tfc3rid
06-07-2007, 10:24 AM
It has not been a long time since Disney didn't have the DDP... Let's all remember that... For 30 years of WDW's existence there was no dining plan as comprehensive and as avaialble as the DDP... There was a way to make Dining work before and there will be a way to make it work moving forward...

Sadly, for the time being, wait staff will be dependent on tipping... I never have used the DDP nor will I ever but I always tip between 20 and 25 percent for excellent service...

Remeber it is all about service... If it sucks, you leave a smaller tip... For better service, you leave something very generous... Thus the nature of the job...

Brian Noble
06-07-2007, 10:32 AM
I'm curious: do servers in the 2007 DDP get tipped based on the reimbursement value to the restaurant, or the menu value of the meal ordered?

dannyh23
06-07-2007, 10:38 AM
Remeber it is all about service... If it sucks, you leave a smaller tip... For better service, you leave something very generous... Thus the nature of the job...

:thumbsup2 :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2

That's all I'm saying... and that is why I think the level of service will INCREASE. A good server will get greater tips, and bad servers now gets hit in the pocketbook because the 18% is no longer guaranteed.

Lewisc
06-07-2007, 10:38 AM
I'm curious: do servers in the 2007 DDP get tipped based on the reimbursement value to the restaurant, or the menu value of the meal ordered?


Disney owned restaurants base the tip on the menu price of the food ordered. Some of the non-Disney owened restaurants base the tip on the amount of money Disney is paying the restaurant.

kaytieeldr
06-07-2007, 10:41 AM
Disney is Not including any type of Grat on DDP come Jan 1st 2008 The guest will be responsible to pay for it if they choose which we hope they will, and Disney cannot do anything like you suggested unless it was in the union contract, they laid out there plan to us on paper, a legal binding contract. which most of The servers on property Voted No for.:mad:
I'm :confused3
Disney can't amend the methods/options for Guests to pay for food because of the union contract with its employees?

Brian Noble
06-07-2007, 10:41 AM
Disney owned restaurants base the tip on the menu price of the food ordered

Interesting. That may explain why Disney was so hot to move it to the guests. That's got to be a non-trivial chunk of DDP revenue.

dannyh23
06-07-2007, 10:45 AM
Interesting. That may explain why Disney was so hot to move it to the guests. That's got to be a non-trivial chunk of DDP revenue.

It's a big chunk that could be used to increase benefits and/or variety of offerings.

A large number of guests on this board alone write Disney saying they want more choices, better menu offerings, etc. Perhaps this plan change will result in more money being spent for better offerings and greater variety, even for those who hate the DDP!

theparsons
06-07-2007, 11:18 AM
We're planning our first trip to WDW in Jan/Feb 2008. I spent a great deal of time and research (and am still tweaking it) to work up a budget and make decisions about rooms, food and ticket options. We are pouring over menus and making up possible itineraries and what we'd eat with or without the plan to compare costs.....taking into account since it's our first trip we are willing to pay a little more to get the "experience" of WDW. It's much much cheaper for us to stay off site, bigger room, lower price, even when you throw in the rental car (which we'd probably get anyway even if we stay on site, because we do want to do other things and I hate waiting for transportation and these boards make it sound like LONG waits to get to the park). Instead we decided the extra cost of a room onsite was worth it for the experience.

Ok...now food.....we don't do fancy restaurants every time we go out at home, and on vacations we do hit a few local places to experience their cusine, but again, they aren't all fancy places (which my definition is that MOST of the TS places are a bit on the fancy side). So...when we caclulated it without the DDP, it was mostly counter service plus of course the character dining, but only a couple of TS in our 3 week stay. Calculating the cost of 3 weeks of DDP vs our choices for CS/Character/TS well, it's a HUGE difference. But....we are waffling on the "but it's a great chance to try those TS places that we'd never do OOP" like so many people say. My biggest concern is in reading about people who planned this too and then reported being totally burned out on eating all that rich, fancy food, and I'm back to waffling....is it worth spending so much extra if we too will not handle fancy food for 3 weeks running (ok, a little less since there are several 2TS's, but you get my point).

So far, I am thinking do "the experience" and we'll just consider it an expensive vacation but worth the memories. But if I now have to calculate in 18% of my food costs above that...well, that's getting over expensive for us and into "out of the question".

I'll also admit that the amount of my tip is in direct correlation to the service I receive....if I have a friendly, smiling server, they get a point.....if we ask for substitutions, things to be on the side, special cooking, or something else not just straight off the menu...they get another point (or points).....if they remember to refill our drinks/water without us having to hunt them down, more points.....if they make nice with the girls and have a one minute uniterrupted "you're the only guests here" conversation....well, priceless, lol. But....if I get a server who is more interested in another table than in listening while I give my order....who doesn't get the order right (whether it's her fault or the cook, she needs to check it before she delivers it)....or if I get the big sigh when I ask for extra sauce or something....or I have to get up and get my own drink, etc....well, they lose points for that. I would never dream of NOT leaving a tip....if the service was that bad, the manager would have been involved long before the bill arrived anyway (thankfully that's only happened twice in my life). But do I automatically give the good servers the same tip amount I give the great ones? Nope....and the great ones could have gotten even more if they were "above and beyond" . I have to work harder at my job to get more money....most of us do, so servers are the same in my book. The tough part for them is they have hundreds of "bosses" to prove their worth too...I thankfully only have one, lol.

The resturants here in our town have figured out that we don't like being told how much to tip....it's supposed to be "To Insure Personal Service". Not a fee on top of the menu prices. A couple months ago a formerly very popular restaurant was on the news....they had announced they were closing their doors at the end of the month due to lack of business. News reporter does the "man on the street" thing asking people why they don't go there anymore.....and person after person says because they tacked on a required tip and the service went way down. This was a dim sum place and so you're at the mercy of the servers to get the food around to the tables. We had gone in many many times (1-2x month give or take) before the required tip and service was a bit slow but the food was great, so you endured....and tipped accordingly. We went twice after the tip requirement...and the first time the service was horrid, but we wanted to give the benefit so we tried again....well, that was the last time we went there, and that was last fall. Long story not much shorter.....apparently after the TV report aired the owner decided to do away with the required tip....the news reported this in follow up and that restaurant is still open now. We haven't gone back because in the meantime we found another dim sum place closer to home, same great food, faster service....so why bother switching back.

If Disney removes the tip from DDP, we'll probably give it up and just go for the more inexpensive route....stay off site, eat breakfast in room, do counter service at lunch and go off site or back to room for dinner. Then we may have enough budget to come back (again off site) a second time that year or have a second vacation somewhere else. It won't stop me from coming, because my kids would kill me, lol....but it does make it out of range for us to do often since we live on the other coast...it's expensive no matter what, but if you make it more expensive, well, time to reconsider future trips. It's the nickle and dime mentality (but for Disney it's ones and fives)...and eventually you run out of extras.

So...OP....what's the email address of Mr. VP so that we can all write him and tell him we appreciate his quelling the rumors of the tip being left out and telling him how we'd have changed our visits had it been true. A little reverse psychology if he is misinformed or spewing inaccuracies, hopefully he'll report up the chain that they need to keep it just a rumor nor reality.

Ok..so is anyone still reading this diatribe? LOL

PaulaSB12
06-07-2007, 11:40 AM
It has not been a long time since Disney didn't have the DDP... Let's all remember that... For 30 years of WDW's existence there was no dining plan as comprehensive and as avaialble as the DDP... There was a way to make Dining work before and there will be a way to make it work moving forward...

Sadly, for the time being, wait staff will be dependent on tipping... I never have used the DDP nor will I ever but I always tip between 20 and 25 percent for excellent service...

Remeber it is all about service... If it sucks, you leave a smaller tip... For better service, you leave something very generous... Thus the nature of the job...

This is what I don't get about tipping if it sucks, you leave a smaller tip. Why should a waiter get any tip if the service sucks? If I do the dining plan next year they will get the minimun I have to tip, sorry but I think 20 - 25% is way over the top, so at the end of the meal out will come out the caculator and the minimum is all they will get.

dannyh23
06-07-2007, 11:43 AM
So...OP....what's the email address of Mr. VP so that we can all write him and tell him we appreciate his quelling the rumors of the tip being left out and telling him how we'd have changed our visits had it been true. A little reverse psychology if he is misinformed or spewing inaccuracies, hopefully he'll report up the chain that they need to keep it just a rumor nor reality.

Ok..so is anyone still reading this diatribe? LOL

Wow that was a long one! :), and I believe your description of how you tip mirrors that of many guests of many dining establishments. Bad service should not equal automatic large tip!

BUT -- I really don't think Mr. VP was lying -- As bicker said way, way back on post 8, Guest Relations can only relay to guests official information!

Unless he has a crystal ball, he can't possibly know how union members would vote for any pending union agreement. He also could not comment on any possible 2008 Dining Plan since it hasn't been published yet, pending acceptance of the union agreement. He's not a liar -- he just couldn't know the outcome!

Also, just like someone can come on here and say "tips won't be included in 2008", there is nothing that stops anyone from creating a Disboards name called RealDisneyVP that says "Here's a secret! 2008 Dining Plan includes all the food you want anywhere and it's only going to be $30!" Neither post is true until it's official!

nbodyhome
06-07-2007, 12:08 PM
Remember also that travel agencies get a percentage of any dining plan sold. Ditto for DRC cast, they get extra money based on revenue sold. So even the $39 isn't $39 once it all boils down to it.

However, I wish Disney had just raised the price of the DDP. The servers will be the ones effected most by this decision.

kimberh
06-07-2007, 01:17 PM
I tip and I tip very fairly. Here is one of my concerns: I have eaten with friends...locally, that are horrible tippers, they are embarrassing to eat with. My husband or myself, feel obligated to leave the entire tip for the table. It only takes a meal or two, to pick new people to eat with. They love Disney. I can see Disney servers getting shafted, on this proposed plan for 2008. Disney is overpriced on so many things anyway, this will be a way for some to feel like they can get some money back, it is just the way some think. I wish they had cut out the snack credit, or went up on the price, or taken away the desert, with the CS meal. There had to be other ways to scale down the plan and pay the server more money. I am surprised that Disney, who stays in control of a plan, has left room for no tipping. There has to be more to this...

Our service has been awesome with and without the DDP. The servers have run their legs off to keep everything flowing for us and the surrounding tables.

We just returned and it was some of the best service we have ever had.:woohoo:

nbodyhome
06-07-2007, 01:39 PM
I also have friends who are terrible tippers. I like having the dining plan include everything, because it ensures the waiters get paid!

kaytieeldr
06-07-2007, 02:03 PM
If I do the dining plan next year they will get the minimun I have to tip,
Well, frankly, the minimum you have to tip is zero - you simply need to eat solely at counter service locations. No server = no tip. Just stay away from the Pepper Market, too.

theparsons
06-07-2007, 02:09 PM
BUT -- I really don't think Mr. VP was lying -- As bicker said way, way back on post 8, Guest Relations can only relay to guests official information!


Well, I did give him the beneift of the doubt and say if he was misinformed. I totally know about, and hate, the "company line" where you can only discuss the official, it's happening right now, line of policy.

I have another question after reading the rest of this thread......have I misunderstood? Somewhere in either this thread, or the thread from DisneyServer that started this whole "rumor/nonrumor" I got the impression that the 18% tip would be REQUIRED? Now I'm reading back through and trying to find where I got that, and maybe I misunderstood....it's required for parties of 6 or more but not everyone? So my cost will increase since I'll have to leave some tip, but not a required 18%...I can leave a tip as I always do based on the level of service received. It's still an increase but somehow the psychology of not being forced to pay for bad service is a little better. A little. Still probably going to outprice it for us....just too many nickles and dimes extra.

So...anyone have any good offsite condos to recommend? Need 2 bedrooms, pool doesn't matter (Jan/Feb too cold). Quiet and pretty would be preferred over active/entertaining or themed.

DCDisney
06-07-2007, 02:18 PM
Yep--if the rumored changes go into effect, it seems like the only parties taking a hit (a substantial one at that) are those who leave a tip and the servers who get stiffed on tips.


I think the servers will definitely get the worst in this. I can see that the tip is technically costing Disney more than any other part of the meal but it seems like there would be some better way to implement a change.

Besides the inconvenience factor of tipping it would make me think twice about expensive meals like Le Cellier where I would need to tip at least $30 and my kids would be just as happy with something cheap. If I'm not going to places like Le Cellier then why bother to do DDP if I just want to eat a few character meals and 1 or 2 nice meals? With one kid an adult on the next trip and he eats like a kid the DDP was barely going to be justifiable anyway without the tip it totally loses the fun factor of not worrying about prices at all.

Yvonne

surfergrl31
06-07-2007, 02:19 PM
So...OP....what's the email address of Mr. VP so that we can all write him and tell him we appreciate his quelling the rumors of the tip being left out and telling him how we'd have changed our visits had it been true. A little reverse psychology if he is misinformed or spewing inaccuracies, hopefully he'll report up the chain that they need to keep it just a rumor nor reality.



I wish I didn't delete that email, but I got on a cleaning spree and got delete happy. I would go to the section of the waltdisneyworld.com site and just go to contact us. In my original email I put in bold letters the topic and went from there. Enough emails will surely trigger a response. I have already sent a second letting them know how unhappy I was to recieve false information.

surfergrl31
06-07-2007, 02:23 PM
So...anyone have any good offsite condos to recommend? Need 2 bedrooms, pool doesn't matter (Jan/Feb too cold). Quiet and pretty would be preferred over active/entertaining or themed.

I would check out allstarvacationrentalhomes they give very good pictures of the condos and houses they rent and availablity of the paticular one you are looking at. I found that the houses which have their own private pool and are within 4-6 miles of disney are cheaper than staying at a deluxe some cheaper than the moderates also. There is also one called romancethemouse and they are also really easy to rent from and someone said they even show up with cookies to welcome you on your vacation.

PaulaSB12
06-07-2007, 02:50 PM
Well, frankly, the minimum you have to tip is zero - you simply need to eat solely at counter service locations. No server = no tip. Just stay away from the Pepper Market, too.

You misread what I said, I will pay the minimum expected 18% but no more than that and if you get terrible service why should you tip at all?

Nancyg56
06-07-2007, 02:56 PM
:thumbsup2 :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2

That's all I'm saying... and that is why I think the level of service will INCREASE. A good server will get greater tips, and bad servers now gets hit in the pocketbook because the 18% is no longer guaranteed.

Unfortunately good servers are also going to have a problem. There are a lot of people who are simply not going to leave a tip and it will have nothing to do with the level of service that they received.

For some reason there are individuals who feel that it is okay to stiff a server in a vacation destination. Justify it by the increased price of food, the amount the trip cost, that they already are making enough from the other guests, because they don't like the food....it goes on and on.

dannyh23
06-07-2007, 04:11 PM
Unfortunately good servers are also going to have a problem. There are a lot of people who are simply not going to leave a tip and it will have nothing to do with the level of service that they received.

For some reason there are individuals who feel that it is okay to stiff a server in a vacation destination. Justify it by the increased price of food, the amount the trip cost, that they already are making enough from the other guests, because they don't like the food....it goes on and on.

That is probably true, but I don't think it's Disney's fault if a guest chooses not to tip, just like I really don't *have* to tip at Olive Garden or on a cruise. Some people refuse to tip on cruises too, but it's not the employers fault if people refuse to tip.

The only way around this would be to enforce an automatic tip on all TS, regardless of DDP or not. We all know how well that would go over, and there is no guarantee that service would improve.

Nancyg56
06-07-2007, 05:36 PM
That is probably true, but I don't think it's Disney's fault if a guest chooses not to tip, just like I really don't *have* to tip at Olive Garden or on a cruise. Some people refuse to tip on cruises too, but it's not the employers fault if people refuse to tip.

The only way around this would be to enforce an automatic tip on all TS, regardless of DDP or not. We all know how well that would go over, and there is no guarantee that service would improve.

I understand that it is not Disney's responsibility to ensure that diners leave a fair tip. I was not suggesting that. I was simply suggesting that if the DDP does not include a gratuity it is probable that the servers are going to pay the price.

I also am not one who has felt that the level of service on the DDP is lacking. My family has used the plan three times, one of those times was free, and I had excellent service for all but two meals. I honestly feel that the DDP encourages a high level of service.

averysmom
06-07-2007, 06:28 PM
Unfortunately good servers are also going to have a problem. There are a lot of people who are simply not going to leave a tip and it will have nothing to do with the level of service that they received.

For some reason there are individuals who feel that it is okay to stiff a server in a vacation destination. Justify it by the increased price of food, the amount the trip cost, that they already are making enough from the other guests, because they don't like the food....it goes on and on.

Like I posted on this thread already - a LOT of ppl don't tip on what they see as free food. I was a server for years, and whenever there was a coupon, discount, etc., most ppl wouldn't tip on the discount/coupon amount.

I can see ppl having a problem tipping 20% on a 65.00 meal that they only paid 39.00 for, kwim???

Dreamfinder2
06-07-2007, 09:47 PM
It's gotta be tough to field guest's complaints, especially when they're based on something that is rumor and not official yet. Wouldn't ya think it's possible that there still may be some changes made before an official announcement is made?

I'm guessing that there are some Disney suits laughing themselves silly, thinking, "those poor guests. They've worked themselves into a lather over an issue we haven't even totally resolved yet."

Wait. And. See.

bicker
06-08-2007, 05:17 AM
Very good insight, and very wise advice, Dreamfinder2.

Definitely do NOT complain about this until the person you're complaining to is supposed to KNOW about it. The CMs who receive your email and take your telephone calls are not 'supposed' to know about these rumors -- they're supposed to do their JOBS: helping people understand the ANNOUNCED, PUBLISHED terms and conditions of the current offerings.

If you need to complain, complain here online, because WE know what you're complaining about.

Uncleromulus
06-08-2007, 06:07 AM
It'll be interesting to see how Disney really announces this.
Or, dosen't announce it.
My guess is that it will just be buried somewhere in the new DDP rules that take effect in 2008.

bicker
06-08-2007, 06:14 AM
I dunno -- I suspect the "Disney Dining Plan" will end at the end of 2007, and there will be some new plan introduced for 2008.

JimMIA
06-08-2007, 07:48 AM
The only way around this would be to enforce an automatic tip on all TS, regardless of DDP or not. We all know how well that would go over, and there is no guarantee that service would improve.I'm actually a little surprised that Disney has not already done this. It's not the least bit unusual for F&B outlets in resort locations to automatically add 15% to every check. In fact, here in Miami, some local restaurants do that because we get a lot of international visitors who are used to the server's full salary being included in the cost of the meal.

The only people who would be offended by the concept of an automatic tip would be those who routinely stiff servers. They'll say, "I don't want anyone telling me how much to tip," but that's exactly what an automatic tip policy says. It says, "If you don't tip 15%, you don't have good enough manners to eat in our restaurant."

Note to those who say, "But we don't do that at home" -- You're not at home.

In the practical application of an automatic tip policy, people who are sincerely worried about the quality of service would know to complain to a manager and ask that the tip be removed or reduced if they get poor service. That's a no-brainer.

If someone doesn't like an automatic tip policy, they simply eat elsewhere. If they don't like DDP with an automatic tip, the answer has been posted here a million times: DDP is not for everyone; if it doesn't meet your needs/desires, don't buy it.

tfc3rid
06-08-2007, 08:49 AM
So, drop the DDP, and them each restaurant will only get people who WANT to eat there and are willing to pay for it... If you're willing to pay to eat at a particular place, you will be willing to reward the servers in kind...

That's how I do it, how I've always done it and how I will continue to do it!

Good food + good service = Fantastic Tip...

DisOrBust
06-08-2007, 10:31 AM
That last I heard TA only get money on the the room booked NOT on passes or the DDP.

Since they were researching a "bigger " DDP including more meals and a bigger price tag I wouldn't be surprised if thats what the DDP become.

One of the great things that were left from "old" WDW were the restaurants. The DDP standardized the menus and reduced the portion sizes but everyone said "its such a good value!" Well it sure not a great value anymore, the whole DDP has changed dining at WDW for the worse. I feel for the CMs that will deal with this change.



...so much for the executive offices knowing anything.

bicker
06-08-2007, 10:32 AM
Actually, back in the "old" WDW, the restaurants sucked. They only got good in the 1990s.

surfergrl31
06-08-2007, 11:10 AM
Very good insight, and very wise advice, Dreamfinder2.

Definitely do NOT complain about this until the person you're complaining to is supposed to KNOW about it. The CMs who receive your email and take your telephone calls are not 'supposed' to know about these rumors -- they're supposed to do their JOBS: helping people understand the ANNOUNCED, PUBLISHED terms and conditions of the current offerings.

If you need to complain, complain here online, because WE know what you're complaining about.

From what I am understanding about the new union contract, is that the DDP portion of it reads tem-perm. Meaning that if this temp change doesn't work out disney has the option to revert back to the old way of the dining plan per that section only on the contract. I think that if enough people did complain before the changes took effect, they might not ever go into effect. Calling guests services will probably be pointless, but writing an email would probably be much more effective. Then it can just be sent to whomever the issue pertains too. I think waiting to see how disney handles this is heading for disaster then we get to spend the next year wondering how they will keep altering this decision.

Disneyserver
06-08-2007, 11:19 AM
From what I am understanding about the new union contract, is that the DDP portion of it reads tem-perm. Meaning that if this temp change doesn't work out disney has the option to revert back to the old way of the dining plan per that section only on the contract. I think that if enough people did complain before the changes took effect, they might not ever go into effect. Calling guests services will probably be pointless, but writing an email would probably be much more effective. Then it can just be sent to whomever the issue pertains too. I think waiting to see how disney handles this is heading for disaster then we get to spend the next year wondering how they will keep altering this decision.

Yes thats the case, Its in the contract as a Temp to perm thing, Thats why the servers are now posting On here so everyone will write and and call and complain, The servers represent 3% of the Union who Voted yes for this Contract, we all voted NO... My health insurance is being raised by double, because they want us to pay what salaried cast members pay for Health insurance. So servers are being hurt the Most in this Contract as well as the guests

DisOrBust
06-08-2007, 11:38 AM
Your right Bicker I ment the 90's. That is when WDW went back to individual chefs/kitchens instead of a centralized kitchen which is what they have brought back again.

dannyh23
06-08-2007, 11:39 AM
I think waiting to see how disney handles this is heading for disaster then we get to spend the next year wondering how they will keep altering this decision.

Sorry, but bicker has it right. Until it's official, we have no right to complain about a plan/policy that hasn't even been published!!!

We, as guests, can't have our cake and eat it too! We can't expect Disney to keep the DDP costs the same forever, while increasing the quality and variety of dining offerings.

If we call/write and whine to them now, what's to stop Disney from an across-the-board increase of the DDP plan cost by 18%??? What's to stop Disney from just increasing all the menu prices by 18%??? What's to stop them from just dropping the DDP all together in 2008???

When the plan details are published in 2008, I'll decide if I want to purchase DDP for my stay. If it's not a good deal for my particular stay, I won't.

Lewisc
06-08-2007, 11:40 AM
Disney has not released details of the 2008 dining programs. I'm not sure what credence Disney will give to communications based on Internet rumors.

Potential customers that decline the dining plan, for stays in 2008, when told the plan no longer includes gratuities will have an impact.



Yes thats the case, Its in the contract as a Temp to perm thing, Thats why the servers are now posting On here so everyone will write and and call and complain, The servers represent 3% of the Union who Voted yes for this Contract, we all voted NO... My health insurance is being raised by double, because they want us to pay what salaried cast members pay for Health insurance. So servers are being hurt the Most in this Contract as well as the guests

dannyh23
06-08-2007, 11:49 AM
...Thats why the servers are now posting On here so everyone will write and and call and complain....

...So servers are being hurt the Most in this Contract as well as the guests

Your union leaders/brothers/sisters should have had your back instead of "selling out" the servers. Instead, like you already said, they are relaxing in the sun on their $100,000+ salaries.

... and I still don't see how this change hurts me as a guest, other than it's going to cost me more to eat if I chose to buy DDP. I never expected the DDP to exist forever at the current price. If some guests did, they were living in Fantasyland. We also don't know if the content of the plan will change along with a (possible) price increase, or maybe they will get rid of the plan all together since so many people (as evidenced by this board) "HATE THE DDP!!!"

I won't be manipulated into calling/writing Disney to whine about something that hasn't even been published officially...

bicker
06-08-2007, 01:02 PM
Sorry, but bicker has it right. Until it's official, we have no right to complain about a plan/policy that hasn't even been published!!! Please understand that my point wasn't about what we have a right to do, but rather what is fair to do to the CMs. In other words, I was saying that it isn't fair to the CMs to complain to them about something that they specifically aren't even supposed to discuss with guests (yet).

dannyh23
06-08-2007, 01:07 PM
Please understand that my point wasn't about what we have a right to do, but rather what is fair to do to the CMs. In other words, I was saying that it isn't fair to the CMs to complain to them about something that they specifically aren't even supposed to discuss with guests (yet).

Exactly... I'm not going to complain to a CM (Guest Relations) based on what an anonymous server says on an internet message board.

Talk about putting that CM in a strange position! I think they have enough "real" problems to deal with...

apirateslife4evr
06-10-2007, 08:38 AM
AHHH more :stir:, I see.....:lmao:

As a former CM, it's SO TYPICAL that these "issues" get thrown out to the masses. Can everyone see that this is the way that Disney gets to guage what potential reaction will be to a major change ?!? They want you to get riled up about this, so that they can justify doing a major overhaul to the plan as it is now. They are realizing that there are too many people doing the dining plan, with not enough locations to serve them, and they are starting to get an influx of complaints. When this "idea" of theirs (cutting the gratuity out) doesn't sit well with guests, and they start to get more people threatening to NOT purchase the DDP, then they'll blame it on the Union vote. :rolleyes1 Why do you think there is so much resistance to issues by Disney Corporate EVERY TIME they have to negotiate the union contract ?!? I was lucky....when I worked for Disney, I was in one of the FEW departments that was NOT governed by the Union.....THANK GOD !!!! :cool2:

calypso*a*go-go
06-10-2007, 10:56 AM
Excellent point Donna!!! Deep-down I feel like Disney is trying to back away from the DDP completely and this move is the beginning of the end.

Luv2Roam
06-10-2007, 11:40 AM
I can see where maybe they are trying to rope in a monster they created. They probably were surprised how well it went over and now have the data needed to take a close study.
Or they feel it is so popular (assuming this rumor is true) that guests will still see the plan as a good deal and buy it.
Same with the premium and platium plans. Some LOVE them. Some view them as too expensive and controlling. What DIS-er on here for the last two years has not seen posts describing the DDP as this?
It's all perception and what works best for the guest.

ConcKahuna
06-10-2007, 12:31 PM
Oh, and just an FYI, if Disney hears CM's say that guests should complain, they will discount all of the complaints. Disney does not accept solicited complaints or comments. I would wait to see what is going on with the plan before people flip out.

bicker
06-10-2007, 03:24 PM
Excessive demand is easily addressed by increasing prices. Indeed, restructuring the plan so it doesn't include gratuities does just that.

mom2alix
06-10-2007, 05:19 PM
Excessive demand is easily addressed by increasing prices. Indeed, restructuring the plan so it doesn't include gratuities does just that.


This is true, but I wish they would have simply raised the price. I figured it out for my family of 4 (2A2C) and 18% tips will run us $268 for an 8 night trip. Divided out per person per night it's only $8.50 extra. I would be willing to pay that to not have the inconveniece of running 2 tickets, just so I can tip my server. I loved just handing over the card and being done. We usually travel with others and having everything covered just made eating together so much more pleasant. No tug of war over the check, etc. I think Disney has underestimated the convenience factor in selling the DDP.

I do think that part of the reason they are eliminating the gratuity instead of reaising the price is that it will enable them to continue the "free dining" promotion. This way they are passing the gratuity cost onto the free diners as well as the guests who are purchasing the plan throughout the year.

GreatLakes5
06-10-2007, 05:29 PM
With folks being able to start making their ADRs for 2008 around July 1st would it really be 2008 before Disney would announce changes to the plan?:confused3

mom2alix
06-10-2007, 05:38 PM
With folks being able to start making their ADRs for 2008 around July 1st would it really be 2008 before Disney would announce changes to the plan?:confused3


They haven't released package prices for 2008 yet, so basically no one has been able to book a MYW package with dining yet. Once that happens, we'll know what's for sure going on with the dining plan. Sometime late this month or in July we should know for sure.

GreatLakes5
06-10-2007, 05:51 PM
They haven't released package prices for 2008 yet, so basically no one has been able to book a MYW package with dining yet. Once that happens, we'll know what's for sure going on with the dining plan. Sometime late this month or in July we should know for sure.

Right - my point in the question - they really "have to" (:rotfl: ) announce something before 2008 because some of us are booking for 2008 in the next month or so....

(Congrats on the weight loss so far....:woohoo: )

peggyjean123
06-10-2007, 06:14 PM
I am so happy about that post, 3 family friends will be at Disney the same time as us, and the mandoatory 18% was scaring me. The meals are pricy and I am frugal with money, being a teacher you understand why. this makes me so happy, my family will be able to enjoy dinner without as many worries. Thank you Dinsy for thinking of middle income people and putting us ahead of the almighty dollar!:thumbsup2

MassMom94
06-10-2007, 07:17 PM
I am so happy about that post, 3 family friends will be at Disney the same time as us, and the mandoatory 18% was scaring me. The meals are pricy and I am frugal with money, being a teacher you understand why. this makes me so happy, my family will be able to enjoy dinner without as many worries. Thank you Dinsy for thinking of middle income people and putting us ahead of the almighty dollar!:thumbsup2

??? Did I miss something? Nothing I've read to date (though I admit I haven't been through all posts on this thread) suggests Disney is going to reduce the cost of the DDP to reflect that they've stopped paying the servers the automatic 18%. And they've reduced the group number from 8 to 6 where they DO add an automatic 18%. So I'm not sure how this is going to save you money. And believe me, Disney is not thinking about putting middle income people ahead of the almighty dollar with this change!:rotfl2:

stagemomx3
06-10-2007, 08:20 PM
I am so happy about that post, 3 family friends will be at Disney the same time as us, and the mandoatory 18% was scaring me. The meals are pricy and I am frugal with money, being a teacher you understand why. this makes me so happy, my family will be able to enjoy dinner without as many worries. Thank you Dinsy for thinking of middle income people and putting us ahead of the almighty dollar!:thumbsup2

:confused3 Huh how is this going to save you money?

BuffaloGal
06-10-2007, 10:44 PM
:confused3 Huh how is this going to save you money?

I say this with great fear and trepidation, but I think that this poster thought that Disney auto-gratted everyone at 18% and that she's excited to hear that they don't so that she doesn't have to tip properly. I hope that's not what she's saying.... but I have a bad feeling......

If that is what you are saying, please remember that servers are people too.
We have bills to pay. We have children to feed. You really need to figure a decent tip into the cost of your trip. I understand that you have to watch a budget. Just try to get that I do too. Budget accordingly. Eat at less expensive restaurants. Please figure a reasonable tip into your equation. Hurting the little guy who bends over backwards to make your vacation magical should not be an option to cut a few bucks out of your vacation budget.

just another guy
06-11-2007, 12:23 AM
I say this with great fear and trepidation, but I think that this poster thought that Disney auto-gratted everyone at 18% and that she's excited to hear that they don't so that she doesn't have to tip properly. I hope that's not what she's saying.... but I have a bad feeling......

If that is what you are saying, please remember that servers are people too.
We have bills to pay. We have children to feed. You really need to figure a decent tip into the cost of your trip. I understand that you have to watch a budget. Just try to get that I do too. Budget accordingly. Eat at less expensive restaurants. Please figure a reasonable tip into your equation. Hurting the little guy who bends over backwards to make your vacation magical should not be an option to cut a few bucks out of your vacation budget.

Agreed, take care of a server who takes good care of you!

Snow_White
06-11-2007, 12:27 AM
I am so happy about that post, 3 family friends will be at Disney the same time as us, and the mandoatory 18% was scaring me. The meals are pricy and I am frugal with money, being a teacher you understand why. this makes me so happy, my family will be able to enjoy dinner without as many worries. Thank you Dinsy for thinking of middle income people and putting us ahead of the almighty dollar!:thumbsup2

You are mistaken. Not only is Disney now making YOU pay the tip (they used to cover it for you), but they are also raising the price for the DDP. Sorry, but you are really off-base on this if you think Disney is putting you "ahead of the almighty dollar"...this new setup will cost you MORE money, not less (even if you plan to screw the servers).

Snow_White
06-11-2007, 12:30 AM
If that is what you are saying, please remember that servers are people too.
We have bills to pay. We have children to feed. You really need to figure a decent tip into the cost of your trip. I understand that you have to watch a budget. Just try to get that I do too. Budget accordingly. Eat at less expensive restaurants. Please figure a reasonable tip into your equation. Hurting the little guy who bends over backwards to make your vacation magical should not be an option to cut a few bucks out of your vacation budget.

I thought this was worth repeating. If people decide to start saving money by ripping off their servers, shame on them.

SusanDK
06-11-2007, 04:31 AM
:confused3 Huh how is this going to save you money?

I think peggyjean123 read the first post of this thread (remember the subject of this whole thread?), and didn't read the next 10 pages, and just assumes that the OP's post is the definitive word.

I don't think she was talking about stiffing the waitstaff. I think she believed the OP that the tips would not be removed.

Just guessing though.

Susan

bicker
06-11-2007, 04:42 AM
This is true, but I wish they would have simply raised the price.The problem is that the price already seems overly-inflated to some, specifically because of the gratuity (and the fact that they see other prices related to dining presented without gratuities included). Perhaps Disney has determined that, because of this, just raising the price would cause too much of a disruption to the offering's revenue stream -- that the offering would benefit from having the cost of service split back down into its component parts (food and prep service cost reflected in the price displayed on the menu; while the cost of table service as an extra add-on cost), as is traditional in our society.

My wife and I were talking about something similar yesterday -- that people are more willing to pay twice rather than pay double (in that case it was for a DVD set for a television series, where a single season was split into "Part One" and "Part Two" rather than released as a single set).

GreatLakes5
06-11-2007, 07:40 AM
The problem is that the price already seems overly-inflated to some, specifically because of the gratuity (and the fact that they see other prices related to dining presented without gratuities included). Perhaps Disney has determined that, because of this, just raising the price would cause too much of a disruption to the offering's revenue stream -- that the offering would benefit from having the cost of service split back down into its component parts (food and prep service cost reflected in the price displayed on the menu; while the cost of table service as an extra add-on cost), as is traditional in our society.

My wife and I were talking about something similar yesterday -- that people are more willing to pay twice rather than pay double (in that case it was for a DVD set for a television series, where a single season was split into "Part One" and "Part Two" rather than released as a single set).

You make good points -
We went DDP last time, will this time...I guess "we shall see" for February. Perhaps we are in the minority (I never thought so, though) & we just plain looked at the bottom line - what's it gonna cost us per day, will we at the very least break even, & is the convenience of it worth it. Our bottom line included tips just because it seems only natural. I'm already bringing tip money allotted for baggage, mousekeeping....I guess I'd bring extra for my servers as well, the convenience was nice though.....:surfweb:

Which makes me :) over your DVD observation - I think it's that shelling over the big $ all at once (even if it's a savings) is often harder for people - either literally or mentally - than spending the two smaller amounts, perhaps at different times. That's where the DDP worked for us in spite of faulty accounting. For us it felt easier mentally to have the whole she-bang paid for in advance including our meals. We probably would have used the program even if it just broke us even. No good financial reason at all.

Lewisc
06-11-2007, 08:49 AM
Although I quoted your post my point isn't specifically directed to this post. Some thoughts about this change:

1) I agree this is one way to present a price increase. Let customers pay "double".

2) Disney initially said DDP was designed to offer guests a dining plan similar to cruise ships. Most cruise ships don't include tips.

3) I think servers made out VERY WELL. Guaranteed 18% gratuity. Guests offering complete meals. Guests ordering more expensive menu items then they otherwise would be ordering. Servers assisted guests with strategy. Suggested guests pay OOP for kids meals. "Bank" kids credits so those credits could later be used to purchase adult meals. Encouraged guests into ordering food they otherwise wouldn't have ordered. Disney may have thought servers were being paid too much. I wonder if the average DDP tip will be less then 18%. I don't normally tip 18% at a buffet. The normal tip range is 15-20% but many people think a normal tip for a buffet restaurant is less.

4) I obviously agree with your previous posts. Disney isn't likely to react to emails based on "internet rumors" regarding plan changes. Disney cares if the number of guests who purchase the DDP is less then projected. Disney will also care if guests, who purchased the plan, complain when they first use the plan and find out "for real" that tips aren't included. This change might be buried in the "fine print" and guests who previously used the plan might not realize the change in policy.

5) In the event I use the DDP in 2008, unlikely if the terms are as rumored, I'll probably try to find some way to let the server I know, in advance, I'll be tipping. Maybe I'll ask if I can charge a tip back to my room.




The problem is that the price already seems overly-inflated to some, specifically because of the gratuity (and the fact that they see other prices related to dining presented without gratuities included). Perhaps Disney has determined that, because of this, just raising the price would cause too much of a disruption to the offering's revenue stream -- that the offering would benefit from having the cost of service split back down into its component parts (food and prep service cost reflected in the price displayed on the menu; while the cost of table service as an extra add-on cost), as is traditional in our society.

My wife and I were talking about something similar yesterday -- that people are more willing to pay twice rather than pay double (in that case it was for a DVD set for a television series, where a single season was split into "Part One" and "Part Two" rather than released as a single set).

GreatLakes5
06-11-2007, 12:08 PM
5) In the event I use the DDP in 2008, unlikely if the terms are as rumored, I'll probably try to find some way to let the server I know, in advance, I'll be tipping. Maybe I'll ask if I can charge a tip back to my room.

Out of curiousity, why would you personally feel this would be necessary?

kimberh
06-11-2007, 12:29 PM
Out of curiousity, why would you personally feel this would be necessary?

I will inform the server that we will be tipping also, If we purchase the DDP in 2008, the reason... as sad to say as it is, the table before me, may have just stiffed the server and I don't want bad server based of someone's else's protest or budget! We always tip very well, I have stated this in previous posts, I have friends that are horrible tippers, and it is embarrassing.

We have a group of ladies that go to lunch, to celebrate each others Birthdays, every month or so through out the year... The same group always shows up. We can talk a long time. When we do this, I call it renting the table. I tell them," to anti up", some of us will leave 30-40% tip because we know that the server could have had 2 groups at the table, but I have one, that will leave her dollar. She has money, She travels all the time, She doesn't tip! She loves Disney! She eats TS, every night, when she goes to Disney, I have always wondered what her tip was. I can bet, she will not leave 18% for anything. The server was taken care of with this type of person, and they are out there, I am sure they are in abundance.

Disneyhappy
06-11-2007, 03:02 PM
The more I think about the tipping from the DDP being removed, the more I think Disney is going to revamp the whole system. Disney is smart. Unless they plan to decrease the price of the DDP as it currently exists because of the removal of tips, I think it will be a brand new plan. I do not think they would expose themselves to the bad press and negative emails from guests on the appearance of looking greedy by realizing an 18% increase in the DDP. I imagine the reason they made it a sticking point to remove the automative gratuities was because the plan was not profitable or they realized how popular the plan was and want to economize on it even more. They just have to revamp it so it is not obvious what they are doing and why. Or they may want to try to find a middle of the road between the old DDP (I can't recall it's name) and the current DDP. For us personally, the old plan had too much included and the price was way too high for us to even consider whether it was worth it to my family. Along came the new dining plan which is hugely popular and most retaurants are filled to capacity and there are complaints of overcrowding, inability to get ADRs and decreae in service and quality.

Not sure if I made any sense but these are just some of my rambling thoughts now that this has had a chance to digest.

hansel1
06-11-2007, 03:45 PM
I think the most fair way to tip based on a pre-packaged plan is to tip what the plan costs per day.

From all accounts the DDP has increased patronage of the disney restaurants. The plan is bringing people in to eat and tip, without the people who go to LeCellier (for example) only because they are on the DDP (the only way they can afford it) the servers would have less tables.

Less tables = Less tips

So even if people tip based on the plan amount and not the ticket amount the servers are making money they might not otherwise.

2 adults @ roughly $40 each, plus 1 child @ roughly $15 would equal $95 dollars that I will tip on.

So, regardless of what my bill is i will tip 20% on the $95. $19

The argument that you should go to a less expensive restaurant is ridiculous. Servers do the same work whether they are working in an expensive restaurant or a cheap restaurant. On the DDP both servers would bring the same amount of food out and take the same amount of orders.

20% of the cost of the plan is the way to go. The larger the group the larger the tip.

kimberh
06-11-2007, 05:21 PM
I think the most fair way to tip based on a pre-packaged plan is to tip what the plan costs per day.

From all accounts the DDP has increased patronage of the disney restaurants. The plan is bringing people in to eat and tip, without the people who go to LeCellier (for example) only because they are on the DDP (the only way they can afford it) the servers would have less tables.

Less tables = Less tips

So even if people tip based on the plan amount and not the ticket amount the servers are making money they might not otherwise.

2 adults @ roughly $40 each, plus 1 child @ roughly $15 would equal $95 dollars that I will tip on.

So, regardless of what my bill is i will tip 20% on the $95. $19

The argument that you should go to a less expensive restaurant is ridiculous. Servers do the same work whether they are working in an expensive restaurant or a cheap restaurant. On the DDP both servers would bring the same amount of food out and take the same amount of orders.

20% of the cost of the plan is the way to go. The larger the group the larger the tip.

There is not a tip on Counter Service meals or Snacks, they will have to split the table service out to have a prepaid tip.

travelgirl06
06-11-2007, 05:27 PM
2) Disney initially said DDP was designed to offer guests a dining plan similar to cruise ships. Most cruise ships don't include tips.

You make an excellent point here. The fact that DDP makes Disney a "mostly-inclusive" trip is a deffinate draw. The ability to order things you wouldn't normally order and to "indulge" a bit is one of the main perks of DDP, but in my opinion the convenience factor is an even bigger perk. The fact that you don't have to worry about cash for a tip, figuring out how much to tip, or even think about money is a great perk.

One way to keep the convenience the DDP with the rumored exclusion of tips would be to offer the option of pre-paid gratuities, much like on a cruise ship. For the cruise ship example, guests typically pay $10/day which is distributed to their dining room staff, room attendent, and others; thereby eliminating the need for guests to worry about the tip. Guests who had pre-paid their gratuity would have this noted on their KTTW card, and their servers would automatically recieve the appropriate gratuity. Offering this option would be a way for Disney to essentially raise the price of DDP (albeit covertly), while maintaining the convenience of the plan (at least in my opinion).

On another note, someone mentioned the need to "pay twice" (once with meal credits and once for tip), and I agree that this would be very inconvenient and inefficient. It would make more work for the servers, hold up tables longer (as everything is being figured out), and lead to more waiting time for guests (both at tables and waiting for tables). Again pre-paid gratuitues or another way to alleviate this issue seem like a good option.

GreatLakes5
06-11-2007, 05:46 PM
One way to keep the convenience the DDP with the rumored exclusion of tips would be to offer the option of pre-paid gratuities,

Then the can of worms may get opened regarding tips for mousekeeping & other staff....I know other threads on these topics have gotten very :mad: as it seems people don't agree on that either :eek: (shocking - I know)

[QUOTE=travelgirl06;19143285]
On another note, someone mentioned the need to "pay twice" (once with meal credits and once for tip), and I agree that this would be very inconvenient and inefficient. It would make more work for the servers, hold up tables longer (as everything is being figured out), and lead to more waiting time for guests (both at tables and waiting for tables). Again pre-paid gratuitues or another way to alleviate this issue seem like a good option.

I don't know that me paying my tip - the one I determine - with cash or my VISA would be that much more work. And I'm guessing that if it were cash it would be time that most servers would happily take - no dealing with getting paid their tips that were paid via a credit card, etc....it's money they'd actually take home that nite.

My only real concern here is what the bottom line will be in terms of my cost. Increase the DDP by 18% by removing the tip - I'm okay with that. Increase the DDP by removing the tip AND increasing the price by more than that 18%...whew:sick:

nbodyhome
06-11-2007, 06:02 PM
Waiters on the cruise ships make less than a server at WDW would. I don't think they'd be happy with a flat $10.00 per person! (and on the cruise ship, you can get breakfast, lunch and dinner in the dining rooms).

gina2000
06-11-2007, 06:45 PM
The difference between a cruise line experience and WDW is that you will have the same server every evening if you eat in the regular dining room. If you dine in a premium location, you are charged an extra fee which also includes the tip. You pay the gratuities once, at the end of the trip. Carting money around WDW may be inconvenient for people who have paid for the DDP. They no longer are hassle free the way you are on a cruise line. And carrying around a credit card for just tips seems crazy.

theparsons
06-11-2007, 09:42 PM
I will inform the server that we will be tipping also, If we purchase the DDP in 2008, the reason... as sad to say as it is, the table before me, may have just stiffed the server and I don't want bad server based of someone's else's protest or budget! We always tip very well, I have stated this in previous posts, I have friends that are horrible tippers, and it is embarrassing.

We have a group of ladies that go to lunch, to celebrate each others Birthdays, every month or so through out the year... The same group always shows up. We can talk a long time. When we do this, I call it renting the table. I tell them," to anti up", some of us will leave 30-40% tip because we know that the server could have had 2 groups at the table, but I have one, that will leave her dollar. She has money, She travels all the time, She doesn't tip! She loves Disney! She eats TS, every night, when she goes to Disney, I have always wondered what her tip was. I can bet, she will not leave 18% for anything. The server was taken care of with this type of person, and they are out there, I am sure they are in abundance.

So you're saying we may actually get to decide on the tip? It's all so confusing.

I thought under the new "rumored" plan that the server would be delivering a bill for the 18% gratutity and if you didn't pay they would get a manager involved and other rather un-Disney un-American (lol) things. I haven't heard this but am starting to wonder if now that Soprano's has ended if Tony and the gang won't be working for the resorts now....to enforce that mandatory tip.

As for your dollar tipping friend....maybe that is how she can afford to travel. I know if my family didn't enoy eating out so much we'd have a lot more in the bank come vacation time. :rotfl:

Disneyserver
06-11-2007, 09:52 PM
So you're saying we may actually get to decide on the tip? It's all so confusing.

I thought under the new "rumored" plan that the server would be delivering a bill for the 18% gratutity and if you didn't pay they would get a manager involved and other rather un-Disney un-American (lol) things. I haven't heard this but am starting to wonder if now that Soprano's has ended if Tony and the gang won't be working for the resorts now....to enforce that mandatory tip.

As for your dollar tipping friend....maybe that is how she can afford to travel. I know if my family didn't enoy eating out so much we'd have a lot more in the bank come vacation time. :rotfl:

There will be NO Gratuity added in 2008 on the DDP, and the only time we will present a check to you is if your a party of 6 or more , and in that case you will have to pay the 18% grat seperate from the plan, because any party at Disney that is 6 or more guests starting JAN 1st will be an auto grat, But The Price of the DDP will not include Grat come Jan 08, so Tip your server Please, we are all very nervous...

Disneyserver
06-11-2007, 09:55 PM
There is not a tip on Counter Service meals or Snacks, they will have to split the table service out to have a prepaid tip.



But the servers have to tip everyone that assists them on the Total of the food you choose, not the 40 dollars you spent for your package , Most guests on the adult plan spend more than 40 dollars in the food they choose, and the beverage

kimberh
06-11-2007, 10:20 PM
But the servers have to tip everyone that assists them on the Total of the food you choose, not the 40 dollars you spent for your package , Most guests on the adult plan spend more than 40 dollars in the food they choose, and the beverage

I was wondering, if this is how it worked, so how do you think it is going to be handled? Are you saying that the tip is going to be on the retail amount of the food, not what we have paid for the plan? Has the Union even discussed this? EX: If we eat at LeCellier for $60.00 per person and we have the DDP, the meal is paid by the DDP, we have paid $40.00 for the day to eat, What is the tip going to be, is it on the $60.00 per person or the TS portion of the DDP? If a family of 6 gets a bill for $64.80 tip, is that how it is going to work? The way I came up with $60.00 per person, our bill for 2 was $119.00, we did not have any extras that were not paid by the DDP. Has Disney been paying the servers this, since the start of the DDP?

Disneyserver
06-11-2007, 10:26 PM
I was wondering, if this is how it worked, so how do you think it is going to be handled? Are you saying that the tip is going to be on the retail amount of the food, not what we have paid for the plan? Has the Union even discussed this? EX: If we eat at LeCellier for $60.00 per person and we have the DDP, the meal is paid by the DDP, we have paid $40.00 for the day to eat, What is the tip going to be, is it on the $60.00 per person or the TS portion of the DDP? If a family of 6 gets a bill for $64.80 tip, is that how it is going to work? The way I came up with $60.00 per person, our bill for 2 was $119.00, we did not have any extras that were not paid by the DDP. Has Disney been paying the servers this, since the start of the DDP?


Up until Jan 1st 2008 Disney has been paying us 18% grat on the total amount on what you order, not the price you paid for the package, but come JAN 1 08 if your a party of 6 or more The server will present a gratuity check for you since all parties of 6 or more regardless of using the DDP will be charged 18% its customary to add grat to larger parties in any place you eat at in The USA, But anyone else on the DDP will be responsible to tip there server on the amount of the bill you recieve at your table for what you ordered... Thanks Hope I answered your question

kimberh
06-11-2007, 10:37 PM
Up until Jan 1st 2008 Disney has been paying us 18% grat on the total amount on what you order, not the price you paid for the package, but come JAN 1 08 if your a party of 6 or more The server will present a gratuity check for you since all parties of 6 or more regardless of using the DDP will be charged 18% its customary to add grat to larger parties in any place you eat at in The USA, But anyone else on the DDP will be responsible to tip there server on the amount of the bill you recieve at your table for what you ordered... Thanks Hope I answered your question

Thank you, you did... There have been a few occasions that our service was so good, that we added to the tip. I have been so happy with the DDP and the service, we have received. I hope for your sakes, it all works out. My sister was a server, here for years, it's a hard job!

bicker
06-12-2007, 04:06 AM
The more I think about the tipping from the DDP being removed, the more I think Disney is going to revamp the whole system. Disney is smart. Unless they plan to decrease the price of the DDP as it currently exists because of the removal of tips, I think it will be a brand new plan.:thumbsup2

Some folks will still insist that it is just the old Dining Plan renamed, because it makes them feel better to do so, but I bet you are correct.

Pumbaa_
06-12-2007, 06:25 AM
A reminder that Disney has not announced its DDP for 2008. How it will be handled is all specualtion at this point.

If Disney revamps the meal plan completely, this may or may not come to fruition. At this point it is a wait and see what will actually be announced as 2008 DDP. :confused3

hansel1
06-12-2007, 07:27 AM
If a party of six is presented with a gratuity check, what happens if they don't pay it?

They have paid for their food already.

What if they decide that they don't want to pay the 18% and leave 10%?

Disneyserver
06-12-2007, 07:31 AM
If a party of six is presented with a gratuity check, what happens if they don't pay it?

They have paid for their food already.

What if they decide that they don't want to pay the 18% and leave 10%?

Im not exactly sure what they will do, But it will be a company policy and It will be inforced, I have seen guests be asked to leave because of it... But remeber if you use your meal package and you leave without paying the Grat the managers can just call your hotel and have it applied to your room costs when you check out you will see it...

Pumbaa_
06-12-2007, 07:44 AM
Im not exactly sure what they will do, But it will be a company policy and It will be inforced, I have seen guests be asked to leave because of it... But remeber if you use your meal package and you leave without paying the Grat the managers can just call your hotel and have it applied to your room costs when you check out you will see it...

A reminder that the policy HAS NOT BEEN published by Disney. EVERYTHING is speculation at this point

nbodyhome
06-12-2007, 07:51 AM
There will be NO Gratuity added in 2008 on the DDP, and the only time we will present a check to you is if your a party of 6 or more , and in that case you will have to pay the 18% grat seperate from the plan, because any party at Disney that is 6 or more guests starting JAN 1st will be an auto grat, But The Price of the DDP will not include Grat come Jan 08, so Tip your server Please, we are all very nervous...

I bet you are! It is surprising to me that the union voted okay on this. There should be some sort of bill, showing what the price of food would have been and what the tip should be - at the very least. Again, I'd rather just see Disney raise the DDP cost to cover the tips.

Disneyserver
06-12-2007, 07:55 AM
I bet you are! It is surprising to me that the union voted okay on this. There should be some sort of bill, showing what the price of food would have been and what the tip should be - at the very least. Again, I'd rather just see Disney raise the DDP cost to cover the tips.

Also, all checks will have a suggested tip of 18% or 20% Printed on all checks , so it will be the figure of what your bill actually is, so It will help people who are not good at math :);) Also remeber The servers make up 1% of the union members so we never get a real Voice in Negiotions sorry for grammer its early

nbodyhome
06-12-2007, 07:56 AM
If a party of six is presented with a gratuity check, what happens if they don't pay it?

They have paid for their food already.

What if they decide that they don't want to pay the 18% and leave 10%?

Disney Server made it sound like there isn't going to be anything mandatory. That would mean you could leave what you wanted, just like any other restaurant. Having been a server in the past, this isn't something I'd be happy about (especially since a lot of guests would feel they've already paid).

Disneyserver
06-12-2007, 08:01 AM
Disney Server made it sound like there isn't going to be anything mandatory. That would mean you could leave what you wanted, just like any other restaurant. Having been a server in the past, this isn't something I'd be happy about (especially since a lot of guests would feel they've already paid).

No one knows exactly how it will be handled, But the Union told us that disney will tell all the guests when they check in to there hotels and get the meal package that They will need to tip the servers on the food totals, because its not included in the price, Also if ur a large party over 6 or more, they will present you a check for the 18% grat That is reqquired if your a large party.. Guests that are not on the meal package also would have to pay 18% grat if there a large party.. But remeber to take care of your servers, They have to share there tips also with the support staff, and we make $3.65 an hour

stagemomx3
06-12-2007, 08:05 AM
So in order to avoid getting the automatic 18% gratuity added to our check we should divide our party of 8 up into 2 parties of 4? It's not that I minding tipping that much I just don't like being told what to do.

Disneyserver
06-12-2007, 08:11 AM
So in order to avoid getting the automatic 18% gratuity added to our check we should divide our party of 8 up into 2 parties of 4? It's not that I minding tipping that much I just don't like being told what to do.

LOL remeber you check in to Disney resorts with a large family it says it on your Blue room Key how many are in your party I am sure Disney Is Not Dumb and the Guests will do what you just suggested, and tell the servers to look at the room key in presenting a grat check. Just dont buy the Meal package if your gonna try and scam the process, and if your coming on a family trip and you really wanna sit at seperate tables then be it , But Thats cheesy not to sit with your friends and family because you dont wanna pay the servers what they Deserve

stagemomx3
06-12-2007, 08:18 AM
LOL remeber you check in to Disney resorts with a large family it says it on your Blue room Key how many are in your party I am sure Disney Is Not Dumb and the Guests will do what you just suggested, and tell the servers to look at the room key in presenting a grat check. Just dont buy the Meal package if your gonna try and scam the process, and if your coming on a family trip and you really wanna sit at seperate tables then be it , But Thats cheesy not to sit with your friends and family because you dont wanna pay the servers what they Deserve

:cool2: Totally cheesy I agree! I still don't like being told what to do though. Plus I'm not sure anyone actually "deserves" an automatic tip. A tip is suppose to be something you earn by prompt, curteous service.

I had actually already been pondering if it will be easier to get ADRs for 2 parties of 4 rather than 1 party of 8. We are staying in two rooms, so the room keys will have 3 adults and 1 child on each of them. It's only 4 adults and 4 kids, but since two of the children are over 10 they are "adults" in Disney's eyes.

Lewisc
06-12-2007, 08:45 AM
Assuming Disney properly words the language regarding the "automatic gratuity" a guest who doesn't pay isn't any different then a guest who doesn't pay a check or decides the food wasn't good enough and decides to discount the food check.

Unless it's the guests last meal Disney could just freeze the account until account is settled. No more park admission and no more meals.

I don't think very many guests run out on a check.

Guests who aren't happy with the food can complain. Those guests generally won't be charged for the bad food but will get a different entree. Guests who aren't happy with the service should complain at the time.




If a party of six is presented with a gratuity check, what happens if they don't pay it?

They have paid for their food already.

What if they decide that they don't want to pay the 18% and leave 10%?

Lewisc
06-12-2007, 08:50 AM
So in order to avoid getting the automatic 18% gratuity added to our check we should divide our party of 8 up into 2 parties of 4? It's not that I minding tipping that much I just don't like being told what to do.

Automatic gratuity is currently applied to parties of 8 or more. That applies even if the party gets separate checks or are seated in separate tables.

I guess you could work around it by getting two different ADRs, under two different names.

hansel1
06-12-2007, 08:54 AM
LOL remeber you check in to Disney resorts with a large family it says it on your Blue room Key how many are in your party I am sure Disney Is Not Dumb and the Guests will do what you just suggested, and tell the servers to look at the room key in presenting a grat check. Just dont buy the Meal package if your gonna try and scam the process, and if your coming on a family trip and you really wanna sit at seperate tables then be it , But Thats cheesy not to sit with your friends and family because you dont wanna pay the servers what they Deserve

Scam the process? It sounds like the process is trying to scam us!

The servers went from auto 18% on DDP to auto 18% on any party of 6, even if they aren't on DDP. I think it will all even out for the servers in the end. I would imagine there are quite a few parties of 6 or more.

Cheesy or not, not all servers "DESERVE" 18%. So if a family of 8 wants to break up their group that should be their business.

WHERE DO YOU WORK, AGAIN?

p.s. the blue room key doesn't show how many are in your party, just how many are in your room.

hansel1
06-12-2007, 09:02 AM
[QUOTE=Lewisc;19153298]Assuming Disney properly words the language regarding the "automatic gratuity" a guest who doesn't pay isn't any different then a guest who doesn't pay a check or decides the food wasn't good enough and decides to discount the food check.
QUOTE]

I don't think that skipping out on a meal is the same as not paying a gratuity, even if its "automatic".

Trying to freeze park admission and further meals would be a serious breach of contract on disney's part, unless it is written into park admission and hotel stay forms that you would need to sign upon check-in.

nbodyhome
06-12-2007, 09:04 AM
I have had very few bad experiences with Disney servers - on the free DP or in cash. I can only think of a couple of times where I wouldn't have left 15 - 20%.

At the very least on the DP (next year), the server should be able to give the guests a "bill" that shows what the tip would be at 15 and 20%. I do think also this will aid Disney in keeping costs down - I would re-think a dessert, an appetizer - anything I might not have otherwise ordered, to keep the total cost down. Then again, I've only done the free DDP, I don't normally eat so much food at Disney.

Alicnwondrln
06-12-2007, 09:06 AM
we have used the DDP our last 5 trips and had very few bad servers

Lewisc
06-12-2007, 09:12 AM
It's a function of how it's worded. We're using terms like "automatic gratuity" and "automatic tip". Assume it's worded something like parties of 6 or more will be charged an 18% service charge. Language that makes it clear it's not optional. Language that deliberately avoids using words like "tip" or "gratuity" which might imply. an optional charge. Skipping out on that charge isn't any different then skipping out on the check. Really no different then a guest who skips out on his adult beverage check.

I'm sure Disney's lawyers will make sure the 18% charge is properly worded.

Guests who line cut can be ejected from the park, without compensation. This really a non-issue, I'm sure the charge will be added to your room charge if you don't separately pay. Guests without room charging may be asked to come to the front desk to "settle up".

Disney doesn't normally send out MYW brochures when guests make a package reservation. I hope Disney makes this clear when guests make their package reservation, particularly if the reservation is for a family of 6 or more.

I'm sure the terms of the package will allow Disney to take appropraite action if a guest walks out without paying.


I don't think that skipping out on a meal is the same as not paying a gratuity, even if its "automatic".

Trying to freeze park admission and further meals would be a serious breach of contract on disney's part, unless it is written into park admission and hotel stay forms that you would need to sign upon check-in.

hansel1
06-12-2007, 09:19 AM
What is the current wording of the gratuity for parties of 8 or more?

Anyone? disneyserver?

If we knew that, we wouldn't have to assume.

Lewisc
06-12-2007, 09:24 AM
Disney has good lawyers. Disney has good lobbyists with the FL legislature. I'm sure the current, and future wording, complies with whatever legal requirements are required by Florida law. Different states have different requirements. The point is the charge can, and will, be worded in a way that means it's enforceable.

I think it's a moot question. I don't think that many guests "walk out" on a check. Particularly when the restaurant has complete contact information on the customer.

We can assume guests will be required to pay the "automatic gratuity". We can assume Disney's lawyers will make sure the wording is sufficient.

We should immediately complain to a manger if the service is deficient.

What is the current wording of the gratuity for parties of 8 or more?

Anyone? disneyserver?

If we knew that, we wouldn't have to assume.

PlutoLuvr
06-12-2007, 09:29 AM
I'm a bit confused on the automatic 18 percent grat on parties of six or more.

Is this only for folks on the DDP or any party of six or more?

Pure curiosity here. I'm seeing theories being tossed around like you'll have to "settle up" at the front desk, your room key could be assessed, your park passes "frozen," but what about those of us that stay offsite and travel to dinner with friends at the World? My AP doesn't say anything in the fine print about my pass not working if I don't tip a mandatory 18 percent at a meal for parties of 6 (or 8 in the current case) or more.

Just to avoid any possible tempers, I'm a good tipper, but I thought I read somewhere that the mandatory 18 percent on parties of 6 or more was not DDP-related; that it was across the board for everyone.

bicker
06-12-2007, 09:33 AM
Is this only for folks on the DDP or any party of six or more?Folks who say they have read it say it applies to any party, not just Dining Plan patrons. However, only time can tell what Disney actually will do.

Tink10
06-12-2007, 09:41 AM
The following was in the other thread that got closed and is the wording from the union contract about how parties of 8 or more should be handled.....

FOOD AND BEVERAGE

Service Charge for Parties of Eight (8) or More

An eighteen percent (18%) service charge will be included on all guest checks of groups of eight (8) or more.

1. The guests will be advised of the policy by the first Host/Hostess (i.e., DRC, Guest Services, Concierge, or Seating Host/Hostess) to accept the guest's reservations.

2. In addition to the above, the policy will be printed on the menus.

3. If a party of eight (8) or more, regardless of reservation size, arrives and is seated at the same table and receives separate checks, the automatic service charge shall apply.

4. If a party of eight (8) or more arrives and, for whatever reason, is split and seated at separate tables, with the same server regardless of the number of checks, the automatic service charge shall apply.

5. If the party of eight (8) or more arrives and, for whatever reason, is split, seated at separate tables with different servers, receives separate checks, and these checks are paid for by separate individuals, the automatic service charge does not apply.

6. In situations where our guests refuse to comply with our policy, it will be the responsibility of the service person to locate a Manager prior to the guests leaving the restaurant so that Management can speak with the guests. If the service person fails to involve a Manager in the situation prior to the guests departing the restaurant, or receives discipline for poor service, the Company will not be responsible for the difference between what the guest left and eighteen percent (18%) of the guest's food and beverage total.

7. The eighteen percent (18%) service charge will be automatically added to the guest check and will be calculated on the food and beverage totals. The server will not be required to inform the guest that a service charge has been included, unless he/she is asked by the guest.


And as far as enforcement, I posted the following on that same thread:

They'll enforce it by adding the 18% to your check or presenting you with a check for the 18%.

If you choose to not pay, the manager will make an appearance & if you still don't anti up, security may be called in and you could be ejected from the park (especially if you're a day guest staying off property).

If you're notified of the charge, whether on the phone, by the hostess or on the menu, and continue to dine at the restaurant you're agreeing to pay it.

The other option would be for them to charge the 18% to your room, even if a CC isn't given at check in. Then, the resort would require you to pay your bill before check-out and if you don't, a bill would be mailed to your house (just like in cases where there's room damage).

Once again, flame away if you'd like, but has anyone considered that maybe the reason for all of the proposed changes (both DDP, DDE and even room rate increases) is a result from so many people nickle & diming WDW to death? :rolleyes1

Lewisc
06-12-2007, 09:43 AM
Larger parties get a check that includes the menu price of the food ordered, a service charge (automatic tip) and sales tax. Most guests wouldn't even think about arbitrarily paying less then the amount billed. Food is no good you complain and the restaurant takes back the uneaten food and takes it off the check. Service is no good you complain and may get a new server or the manager may serve you.

Some DDP posters thought they could just ignore any bill for the automatic tip/service charge. They wondered what Disney could do since the food was already paid for.



I'm a bit confused on the automatic 18 percent grat on parties of six or more.

Is this only for folks on the DDP or any party of six or more?

Pure curiosity here. I'm seeing theories being tossed around like you'll have to "settle up" at the front desk, your room key could be assessed, your park passes "frozen," but what about those of us that stay offsite and travel to dinner with friends at the World? My AP doesn't say anything in the fine print about my pass not working if I don't tip a mandatory 18 percent at a meal for parties of 6 (or 8 in the current case) or more.

Just to avoid any possible tempers, I'm a good tipper, but I thought I read somewhere that the mandatory 18 percent on parties of 6 or more was not DDP-related; that it was across the board for everyone.

Tink10
06-12-2007, 09:44 AM
My AP doesn't say anything in the fine print about my pass not working if I don't tip a mandatory 18 percent at a meal for parties of 6 (or 8 in the current case) or more.

But it does say "Revocable"

bicker
06-12-2007, 09:51 AM
Service Charge for Parties of Eight (8) or More"Service Charge" -- that's pretty definitive that it isn't optional.

If you're notified of the charge, whether on the phone, by the hostess or on the menuThat last bit is critical for people to understand: If the charge is revealed on the menu and you still choose to order, you have agreed to pay the charge.

Once again, flame away if you'd like, but has anyone considered that maybe the reason for all of the proposed changes (both DDP, DDE and even room rate increases) is a result from so many people nickle & diming WDW to death? You're absolutely on-target.

calypso*a*go-go
06-12-2007, 10:02 AM
If you choose to not pay, the manager will make an appearance & if you still don't anti up, security may be called in and you could be ejected from the park (especially if you're a day guest staying off property).

I seriously doubt anyone would be ejected from the park because they refused to pay the 18% gratuity (especially if they have received poor service).

See...this is what disturbs me about this whole deal -- If Disney feels so strongly about the issue of servers not being tipped appropriately that they have included more automatic gratuity charges then why did they strip it from the one thing that generated the most tips? I still don't understand why they didn't just increase the price of the DDP. :confused3

PlutoLuvr
06-12-2007, 10:02 AM
Thanks, folks!

I've seen those mandatory "service charges" aka automatic tips on menus at other places, but I just never have to really deal with it since we so rarely eat with a group of eight or more. But come to think of it, it usually is worded as a "fee" or "charge" as opposed to "tip" or "gratuity."

Lewisc
06-12-2007, 10:08 AM
Guests who complain about poor service might get another server. A manager might help out. In an extreme case the manager might agree to remove all or part of the service fee.

A guest who refuses to pay the check, including tax and any applicable service charge, may very well be ejected.

Refusing to pay the 18% service fee, because you don't think the service was good, isn't any different then refusing to pay for the food because you didn't think the food was good. Guests have an obligation to speak up at the time of service. Guests don't have the right to arbitrarily pay less then the total indicated on the check.

I seriously doubt anyone would be ejected from the park because they refused to pay the 18% gratuity (especially if they have received poor service).

Tink10
06-12-2007, 10:15 AM
I seriously doubt anyone would be ejected from the park because they refused to pay the 18% gratuity (especially if they have received poor service).

See...this is what disturbs me about this whole deal -- If Disney feels so strongly about the issue of servers not being tipped appropriately that they have included more automatic gratuity charges then why did they strip it from the one thing that generated the most tips? I still don't understand why they didn't just increase the price of the DDP. :confused3

I don't think they anyone would be ejected either, but I'm sure it could happen.

snowbunny
06-12-2007, 10:16 AM
I've seen those mandatory "service charges" aka automatic tips on menus at other places, but I just never have to really deal with it since we so rarely eat with a group of eight or more. But come to think of it, it usually is worded as a "fee" or "charge" as opposed to "tip" or "gratuity."

Most any restaurant menu will state that a gratuity of __% is added automatically for parties of __ or more. It's quite standard.

Room service generally results in an automatic gratuity % as well.

calypso*a*go-go
06-12-2007, 10:48 AM
You know, it's still six months until 2008 is here...so who knows what could happen between now and then. If the people that have posted saying they will no longer purchase the DDP actually follow through on their word, maybe the issues we are discussing right now won't even be a factor. Fingers crossed!

hansel1
06-12-2007, 11:05 AM
6. In situations where our guests refuse to comply with our policy, it will be the responsibility of the service person to locate a Manager prior to the guests leaving the restaurant so that Management can speak with the guests. If the service person fails to involve a Manager in the situation prior to the guests departing the restaurant, or receives discipline for poor service, the Company will not be responsible for the difference between what the guest left and eighteen percent (18%) of the guest's food and beverage total.

So, if you recieve poor service and call the manager over, you can pay less than the 18% "service charge".

12. An eighteen percent (18%) service charge will be added for all package plans, supplemental Food and /or Beverage purchased and consumed by the guest covered by the package plan, and Company sponsored discounts. The service charge will be based on the total charges before any discounts have been applied. This provision does not apply to Disney Dining Experience and Disney Vacation Club. This change will phase into current packages through 2006.

DVC? So if you are staying in a DVC resort they won't charge you the 18%?

DCDisney
06-12-2007, 11:14 AM
There will be NO Gratuity added in 2008 on the DDP, and the only time we will present a check to you is if your a party of 6 or more ,
But The Price of the DDP will not include Grat come Jan 08, so Tip your server Please, we are all very nervous...

So if no check is given to DDP folks I can see many people doing no tip and just walking out when they are done eating or some random small amount (like $5) which would be nowhere near 18% of the undiscounted check.I can't see how they'll keep any servers around if this really does happen.

Yvonne

Lewisc
06-12-2007, 11:16 AM
So, if you recieve poor service and call the manager over, you can pay less than the 18% "service charge".

No different then a guest who complains to a manager about food. A guest doesn't like the food and leaves most of it on the plate. A guest can ask for a manager and the manager is likely to make some adjustment. The manager might discount your check or offer you something else at no charge. Speak up as soon as you have a problem with service. Don't wait until the check is presented and expect to get a manger to give you discounts due to bad food or bad service. Keep in mind the solution to a complaint isn't money. Call a manager over and complain about not getting drink refills. The solution is for the manager to get your drinks. Complain about not getting what your ordered the solution is for the manager to get you the correct food.


12. An eighteen percent (18%) service charge will be added for all package plans, supplemental Food and /or Beverage purchased and consumed by the guest covered by the package plan, and Company sponsored discounts. The service charge will be based on the total charges before any discounts have been applied. This provision does not apply to Disney Dining Experience and Disney Vacation Club. This change will phase into current packages through 2006.

DVC? So if you are staying in a DVC resort they won't charge you the 18%?

That's not what it says. What is said is guest getting a discount by using the DDE card or because the guest is a DVC member isn't subject to an "automatic tip". We already know that's changing for DDE discounts next year.

hansel1
06-12-2007, 11:28 AM
No different then a guest who complains to a manager about food. A guest doesn't like the food and leaves most of it on the plate. A guest can ask for a manager and the manager is likely to make some adjustment. The manager might discount your check or offer you something else at no charge. Speak up as soon as you have a problem with service. Don't wait until the check is presented and expect to get a manger to give you discounts due to bad food or bad service.


That's not what it says. What is said is guest getting a discount by using the DDE card or because the guest is a DVC member isn't subject to an "automatic tip". We already know that's changing for DDE discounts next year.


This 12th provision is the contract terms that gave the servers their automatic 18% gratuity on the DDP package.

DDE was not required to add this as it was not regulated by this provision.

My question is what does DVC have to do with a dining package?

CR88
06-12-2007, 11:45 AM
I think the most fair way to tip based on a pre-packaged plan is to tip what the plan costs per day.

From all accounts the DDP has increased patronage of the disney restaurants. The plan is bringing people in to eat and tip, without the people who go to LeCellier (for example) only because they are on the DDP (the only way they can afford it) the servers would have less tables.

Less tables = Less tips

So even if people tip based on the plan amount and not the ticket amount the servers are making money they might not otherwise.

2 adults @ roughly $40 each, plus 1 child @ roughly $15 would equal $95 dollars that I will tip on.

So, regardless of what my bill is i will tip 20% on the $95. $19

The argument that you should go to a less expensive restaurant is ridiculous. Servers do the same work whether they are working in an expensive restaurant or a cheap restaurant. On the DDP both servers would bring the same amount of food out and take the same amount of orders.

20% of the cost of the plan is the way to go. The larger the group the larger the tip.


Very Interesting post. I have been wondering the same thing. What amount will the tip be based on? From what I have read, the actual cost per meal on the DDP is less than the retail menu amount. I am not sure if this is true, or if it is on a restaurant to restaurant basis, or if it is the same everywhere but I have ready numerous times on DIS that the actual bill to the restaurant, when DDP is involved, is not the amount listed on the menu.

Are they saying that the cost of the meal is the same whether pre-paid or not? That doesn't seem to make sense. You are supposedly saving up to 40% on meals, but paying tips based on 100%? I am not arguing against leaving 18%, we always left extra, but I am just curious how they will handle this. I don't recall even seeing amounts on our receipts when we were on the plan. Are they going to have the meal amounts listed and totaled, then a zero balance AND a total from which to calculate tips? Kind of confusing. :confused3 But as many posters have said, it is all speculation until the 2008 plan is detailed and officially released.

Lewisc
06-12-2007, 11:54 AM
DVC members get a discount at some meals in some restaurants. That discount by itself, doesn't currently result in an "automatic tip". DDE is currently excluded from this provision but will be included next year.

Throughout the previous threads on tipping many posters said restaurants should pay servers appropriately and customers shouldn't be responsible for paying servers. Adding on an "automatic tip" or service fee does just that. Did people really think restaurants will increase the servers compensation without increasing prices?

I suspect your point is really a non-issue. I can't imagine very many guests, after being told an 18% service fee will be added to their check, will refuse to pay when presented with the check. You first asked how a mandatory tip could be enforced. The current wording clears up that issue. The manager has discretion to remove the tip. I think guests would have difficulty in claiming the service was only worth 15%.

Customers who think a restaurant is too expensive, including any "automatic service charge, should find another place to eat. This change will affect some families/groups that thought stiffing a server (tipping less then standard even for good service) is an acceptable budget technique.


This 12th provision is the contract terms that gave the servers their automatic 18% gratuity on the DDP package.

DDE was not required to add this as it was not regulated by this provision.

My question is what does DVC have to do with a dining package?

hansel1
06-12-2007, 12:06 PM
DVC members get a discount at some meals in some restaurants. That discount by itself, doesn't currently result in an "automatic tip". DDE is currently excluded from this provision but will be included next year.

Throughout the previous threads on tipping many posters said restaurants should pay servers appropriately and customers shouldn't be responsible for paying servers. Adding on an "automatic tip" or service fee does just that. Did people really think restaurants will increase the servers compensation without increasing prices?

I suspect your point is really a non-issue. I can't imagine very many guests, after being told an 18% service fee will be added to their check, will refuse to pay when presented with the check. You first asked how a mandatory tip could be enforced. The current wording clears up that issue. The manager has discretion to remove the tip. I think guests would have difficulty in claiming the service was only worth 15%.

I did not know that discounts were provided to dvc members. Thank you for that information.

I think that even if a manager removed the entire tip, most people including myself would leave something (maybe 10% or so) even when service is poor.

calypso*a*go-go
06-12-2007, 12:11 PM
I'm thinking the 18% calculation is going to be based on the menu price as I doubt Disney really wants to point out to people utilizing the DDP that the food actually costs them so much less than the listed price...because (as previously mentioned) that completely eliminated the "40% savings" by using the prepaid plan. This whole thing is craziness!!!

Lewisc
06-12-2007, 12:33 PM
The level of service that would cause me to complain to a manger and for the manager to delete the tip would have be low. Probably so low that I wouldn't leave a tip. Same as with food. I don't like the food and I don't eat it. The price of the food is generally deleted from my check. I've never heard of a manager offering to take 1/3 off the price of an entree that I ate 1/3 of.

AN AUTOMATIC TIP/SERVICE FEE ISN'T LET'S MAKE A DEAL. A customer doesn't get to tell the manager I think service was worth 14% please take 4% off the bill. Rather a customer complains at the time of bad service so the issue can be corrected. Ask the next CM that goes past your table to get a manager. Tell the manager you've been waiting 10 minutes for drink refills. Your problem gets solved. You really don't get to discuss the servers shortcomings after the fact and negotiate a lower tip. I think an 18% "automatic tip" is too high for a buffet restaurant. The customer can pay it or dine elsewhere. It's really not fair to expect to be able to negotiate a lower tip with the manager.


I think that even if a manager removed the entire tip, most people including myself would leave something (maybe 10% or so) even when service is poor.

hansel1
06-12-2007, 12:52 PM
The level of service that would cause me to complain to a manger and for the manager to delete the tip would have be low. Probably so low that I wouldn't leave a tip. Same as with food. I don't like the food and I don't eat it. The price of the food is generally deleted from my check. I've never heard of a manager offering to take 1/3 off the price of an entree that I ate 1/3 of.

AN AUTOMATIC TIP/SERVICE FEE ISN'T LET'S MAKE A DEAL. A customer doesn't get to tell the manager I think service was worth 14% please take 4% off the bill. Rather a customer complains at the time of bad service so the issue can be corrected. Ask the next CM that goes past your table to get a manager. Tell the manager you've been waiting 10 minutes for drink refills. Your problem gets solved. You really don't get to discuss the servers shortcomings after the fact and negotiate a lower tip. I think an 18% "automatic tip" is too high for a buffet restaurant. The customer can pay it or dine elsewhere. It's really not fair to expect to be able to negotiate a lower tip with the manager.

You can discuss a server's shortcomings at any point!

no one said they would try to negotiate a better tip.

If a server is giving poor service, that does not mean they should get NO TIP AT ALL! So after complaining to the manager at any point and having the tip removed, you could (only if you wanted to) leave a tip of some amount for the service that server provided.

As was previously stated in another post, the IRS requires you show a percentage of the food bill as a tip recieved whether you recieved it or not.

Regardless of how insistant you are in your posts. I will only tip based on the cost of the DDP to my family. If I don't use the DDP, I will then tip based on the total of my bill. And finally, I won't have a party of 6 or more, the auto 18% service charge is mute.

tfc3rid
06-12-2007, 12:54 PM
A 15 to 20% gratuity on parties of 6 or more is the norm in every restaurant that I go to here in NYC... It's standard...

Lewisc
06-12-2007, 01:05 PM
You first asked how Disney could enforce an "automatic tip". Several of us told you it's done as a service charge and can be enforced.

You asked what would happen if you got horrible service. Several of us said it's no different then bad food. Talk to the manager and your bill can be adjusted.

An "automatic tip" takes the discretion away from the diner. JMO but I think it's wrong to tell the manager the service is horrible enough to get the tipped deleted just so you can tip a lower amount. The time to complain about bad food is when the food is served. The time to complain about bad service is when it occurs, so the problem can be corrected.

The IRS doesn't require a server report a % of the food bill as a tip whether or not it was received but a server/restaurant that claims less better be prepared with documentation.

As long as you're not a party of 6 or more you're free to calculate your tip anyway you want. You previously mentioned basing your tip on the daily cost of your dining plan. I'm not sure why you'd be including the cost of a snack or CS meal in your tip calculation but 20% of the total cost of the meal plan probably translates to at least a 15% on the food your order. Sounds about right to me.

I'm not going to continue this discussion with you, it doesn't help others.


You can discuss a server's shortcomings at any point!

no one said they would try to negotiate a better tip.

If a server is giving poor service, that does not mean they should get NO TIP AT ALL! So after complaining to the manager at any point and having the tip removed, you could (only if you wanted to) leave a tip of some amount for the service that server provided.

As was previously stated in another post, the IRS requires you show a percentage of the food bill as a tip recieved whether you recieved it or not.

Regardless of how insistant you are in your posts. I will only tip based on the cost of the DDP to my family. If I don't use the DDP, I will then tip based on the total of my bill. And finally, I won't have a party of 6 or more, the auto 18% service charge is mute.

bicker
06-12-2007, 01:10 PM
I've seen those mandatory "service charges" aka automatic tips on menus at other places, but I just never have to really deal with it since we so rarely eat with a group of eight or more. But come to think of it, it usually is worded as a "fee" or "charge" as opposed to "tip" or "gratuity."And it is important to keep in mind that they're all for the same thing: cost-of-service. Any of three approaches are valid: integrated into the menu price, covered through gratuity, and covered via a service charge.

bicker
06-12-2007, 01:12 PM
You know, it's still six months until 2008 is here...so who knows what could happen between now and then. True, but January 1 isn't really the date-of-interest. Rather, this "becomes real" once MYW packages for 2008 are announced, sometimes in the next two months.

hansel1
06-12-2007, 01:23 PM
An "automatic tip" takes the discretion away from the diner. JMO but I think it's wrong to tell the manager the service is horrible enough to get the tipped deleted just so you can tip a lower amount. The time to complain about bad food is when the food is served. The time to complain about bad service is when it occurs, so the problem can be corrected.

I'm not going to continue this discussion with you, it doesn't help others.

I would never tell the manager service was bad, just to lower a tip. I would, however, tell a manager about poor service.

You are saying that poor service deserves no tip, or in the alternative don't complain and pay 18% regardless of the service.

So, if you don't want to discuss this, don't post anymore!

I believe that people should be aware that if they get poor service on a party of 6 or more, they can complain anytime during their meal and ask the tip or "service charge" of 18% be romoved so they can then tip at their discretion.

THAT DOES HELP OTHERS!

kimberh
06-12-2007, 01:34 PM
I would never tell the manager service was bad, just to lower a tip. I would, however, tell a manager about poor service.

You are saying that poor service deserves no tip, or in the alternative don't complain and pay 18% regardless of the service.

So, if you don't want to discuss this, don't post anymore!

I believe that people should be aware that if they get poor service on a party of 6 or more, they can complain anytime during their meal and ask the tip or "service charge" of 18% be romoved so they can then tip at their discretion.

THAT DOES HELP OTHERS!

One thing to really be careful with on with this approach is... There are families that are looking for a loophole around or through the system. The server could have gave good service, and it just will not matter. In their view, they should not have to pay a 18% tip, when they did not pay it the prior 2 years. Now, I am not one of those families, I have seen people eat good meals, never complain about the food, not one word, then call the manager over, tell him how bad the food was. They had cleaned their plate. This was not at Disney, at a seafood restaurant, here.

It takes all types to make the World go around.

Lewisc
06-12-2007, 01:39 PM
Exactly. People lose credibility when they complain about food, after they cleaned their plate. Likewise people aren't credible when they don't complain about the service until it's time to pay their check.

One thing to really be careful with on with this approach is... There are families that are looking for a loophole around or through the system. The server could have gave good service, and it just will not matter. In their view, they should not have to pay a 18% tip, when they did not pay it the prior 2 years. Now, I am not one of those families, I have seen people eat good meals, never complain about the food, not one word, then call the manager over, tell him how bad the food was. They had cleaned their plate. This was not at Disney, at a seafood restaurant, here.

It takes all types to make the World go around.

Tink10
06-12-2007, 02:17 PM
One thing to really be careful with on with this approach is... There are families that are looking for a loophole around or through the system. The server could have gave good service, and it just will not matter. In their view, they should not have to pay a 18% tip, when they did not pay it the prior 2 years. Now, I am not one of those families, I have seen people eat good meals, never complain about the food, not one word, then call the manager over, tell him how bad the food was. They had cleaned their plate. This was not at Disney, at a seafood restaurant, here.

It takes all types to make the World go around.

That's exactly what I see happening with those who are that determined to beat the system. They don't give a flying hoot if they put someone's job in jeopardy, let alone give an appropriate tip.

GreatLakes5
06-12-2007, 02:18 PM
- I know I'm making 2008 dining reservations as of August for a February package....this will need to be resolved by July unless it will only apply for January 2008 and following rservations being made (so that would be June 2008 stays??)....

- remember that all the points from a contract that are being copied and pasted are the old contract....these were pasted and copied and quoted ad nauseum on another thread as well

- I'm in Michigan - not in a "fancy" area - most restaurants here add on the automatic gratuity on parties of 10 or more...if it's normal here it's pretty normal everywhere - we generally are not cutting edge :rotfl:

- That said, a good manager knows his/her servers. If I have horrid service, complain to the manager there's a good chance that other complaints have come before or that the manager is aware that the server is "difficult"...I would fully expect the manager to allow me to leave proper tip - not stiffing the server but perhaps directing it right to all those people that servers are sharing their tips with...let me tip the bartender, the cleaning crew, etc...my issue is with the server - period.

- I pay in advance for a month of violin lessons. I feel stupid doing it but I do it because I like the teacher and I want to keep him happy. My husband is a contractor. If we asked someone to pay in full for their house in advance of completion we'd be laughed out of contract negotiations. I guess it depends on what we equate with service in a restaurant...do we want it badly enough that paying tips ahead of service is something we'll accept? Or do we want to be the customer who laughs in the face of the request.

As stated in past threads I, personally, would not mind being in control of my tipping. Take away the tip. I'm okay. Take away the tip AND raise the price of the dining plan and we may not use it - I honestly don't know until I see the facts - just the facts.

hansel1
06-12-2007, 02:20 PM
I believe that most people who complain about service will do so towards the end of their meal.

This allows their server an opportunity to correct the problems. This also allows the meal to continue without further confrontations.

Complaining about the food should be done upon first inspection not upon completion.

nbodyhome
06-12-2007, 02:24 PM
I think that in the end, a lot of people will already feel they paid for the dining plan and won't tip. When you add a tip on top of the dining plan, it isn't nearly as good a deal anymore - which is why a lot of people get it to begin with. I personally would rather see them raise the DDP to $50 or so to include tips, to ensure that the servers don't get stiffed by this.

PlutoLuvr
06-12-2007, 02:29 PM
And it is important to keep in mind that they're all for the same thing: cost-of-service. Any of three approaches are valid: integrated into the menu price, covered through gratuity, and covered via a service charge.

Oh, yeah, totally I understand. I didn't mean to imply at all any were invalid. Just responding to someone's post about the various ways I've seen it listed on menus. The other poster mentioned WDW using terminology to make it clear to the patron that the tip/grat wouldn't be optional by using terms like "fee" or "service charge."

My mind's a bit mushy. Been listening to lawyers talk at 300 wpm all day. Just read through a few posts and hit "reply." Maybe next time I'll use the multiple quote feature, lol, so I make better sense :thumbsup2

Anjelica
06-12-2007, 03:52 PM
As stated in past threads I, personally, would not mind being in control of my tipping. Take away the tip. I'm okay. Take away the tip AND raise the price of the dining plan and we may not use it - I honestly don't know until I see the facts - just the facts.

Agreed - will definetly have to see how this all pans out. Even now, we always tip above and beyond what is actually given to the servers (based upon total cost of food had we paid out of pocket) so I guess for us the tip wasn't a huge portion of the daily rate of the DDP. I guess I would still be willing to get the DDP if they DON'T raise the price but still take out the automatic gratuity.

beth_cam
06-12-2007, 04:10 PM
as far as waiting to complain until the end of the meal rather than when you received the food, the following seems to be a fairly typical situation when dining at a restaurant in a busy lunch time -

2 friends and I visited applebees and were seated with a sign there about some guarantee (I dont remember the length) of when you would be served. We were seated with menus and told the server would be there soon. There were a total of 3 children under age 4 at the table. I scanned the menu trying to find what I could tollerate that didn't have cheese. the waitress hurriedly takes our order when we flag her down and rushes off. I full 45 minutes later, we receive our food but she has other peoples food to and leaves after putting down our plates. My meal had cheese on it. Now when it took 45 minutes to get our food there is no way I am going to wait for something else to be made...but I also am worried it was my mistake for not looking at the menu close enough. I ate it, but asked to see a menu the next time we saw the waitress...which was when she was trying to rush off after dropping off our check. She brings back the menu and sure enough what I ordered did not list chease as an ingredient. I mentioned it to her not really expecting anything, just letting her know that the menu does not say it includes cheese so maybe they can fix that before bringing it to someone else who truely can't eat cheese. She rolls her eyes at me and says well you ate it and abruptly turns to walk away. i stop her and tell her that I only ate it because I didnt want to have to wait so long to have something else brought as I'm sure the other diners wouldn't appreciate how fussy the children were going to be at being kept in the high chairs much longer. I also mention the time guarentee, the fact that she rushed off, and she didnt return for so long. She says just a minute and brings back the recipt showing the time she entered my order into the computer and does her own calculation of how long we had been eating and so she says that she met the guarentee and repeats that I ate the food. I asked for a manager at that point because of her attitude.

The entire time, I didn't want to cause trouble, I understand that mistakes happen, that they were very busy, and a misplated meal isn't necessarily her fault so the last thing I wanted to do was get her in trouble. But clearly like above posters she saw it as me trying to cheat the system since I had eaten the food. The fact that a diner would rather eat the poor food than endure a longer wait but doesn't think they should have to pay the full price when the wrong thing was brought or items were missing doesnt mean he is cheating. It sucks that there are so many people out there who cheat the system that an honest person is looked at as a cheater.

Tink10
06-12-2007, 04:16 PM
It sucks that there are so many people out there who cheat the system that an honest person is looked at as a cheater.


I couldn't agree more.....

bicker
06-12-2007, 04:25 PM
Indeed, we all pay for the shading dealings of a few: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=961228

kimberh
06-12-2007, 05:16 PM
Indeed, we all pay for the shading dealings of a few: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=961228


thanks for the link, that is a good thread.

illiniowl
06-12-2007, 07:01 PM
Once again, flame away if you'd like, but has anyone considered that maybe the reason for all of the proposed changes (both DDP, DDE and even room rate increases) is a result from so many people nickle & diming WDW to death? :rolleyes1
You're absolutely on-target.

Well, come on now. I'm not going to minimize, rationalize or excuse any guests' bad behavior (e.g., adult meals for kids' credits, phantom guests to get more free dining credits, etc.) but until somebody shows me some contradictory statistics, I'm pretty sure such behavior was isolated and the vast, vast majority of people obeyed the terms of the DDP to the letter. In fact, I'd speculate that any "loss" incurred due to dishonest guests was overwhelmingly outweighed by the "gain" in the value of DDP credits that were never redeemed.

In any event, the primary determinant of what Disney is going to charge is what the market will bear. They aren't shifting the responsibility for paying tips back over to the dining plan customer (to use one example of a rumored upcoming change) because they're getting nickel and dimed to death by too many guests ordering steak instead of chicken or splitting meals to maximize their credits. :charac2: They're doing it because they can, or at least they think they can. They believe they rather significantly underpriced the DDP. Perhaps they did so mistakenly, but that doesn't give their MBAs and CPAs very much credit, does it? I think it's quite plausible that they did so intentionally, as a way to get lots of formerly offsite lodgers to stay onsite (or to get onsite guests to come back more often) AND try out a new vacation element: everyday TS dining. And now that they have you, Mr. and Mrs. Consumer, hooked on staying onsite and eating TS everyday (don't forget, even though it's a "great deal," you pay a lot more for the DDP than you would if you ate CS all the time, which is how plenty of families do WDW) and loving the "convenience" of paying way in advance for your meals (it still floors me how much value some posters place on the "prepaid" factor, as if Disney is doing them a favor by depriving them of the use of their money for a couple months), they'll jack up the price to what they think you're really willing to pay. (Or effectively jack up the price by reducing the value of what you're getting in exchange for your money.) And let me be clear - there's nothing wrong with this IMO. WDW is a business. I just don't think we should delude ourselves into believing that the rumored changes to the dining plan could have been avoided if only a few rotten apples hadn't spoiled the party for everyone.

Disneyserver
06-12-2007, 10:28 PM
I'm a bit confused on the automatic 18 percent grat on parties of six or more.

Is this only for folks on the DDP or any party of six or more?

Pure curiosity here. I'm seeing theories being tossed around like you'll have to "settle up" at the front desk, your room key could be assessed, your park passes "frozen," but what about those of us that stay offsite and travel to dinner with friends at the World? My AP doesn't say anything in the fine print about my pass not working if I don't tip a mandatory 18 percent at a meal for parties of 6 (or 8 in the current case) or more.

Just to avoid any possible tempers, I'm a good tipper, but I thought I read somewhere that the mandatory 18 percent on parties of 6 or more was not DDP-related; that it was across the board for everyone.

Currently any party of 8 or more is auto Grat 18%, Come Jan 1st 08 any party 6 or more will be 18%, and any table that is using the 20% off DDE card will be applied 18% on the first total regardless of party size

Disneyserver
06-12-2007, 10:35 PM
6. In situations where our guests refuse to comply with our policy, it will be the responsibility of the service person to locate a Manager prior to the guests leaving the restaurant so that Management can speak with the guests. If the service person fails to involve a Manager in the situation prior to the guests departing the restaurant, or receives discipline for poor service, the Company will not be responsible for the difference between what the guest left and eighteen percent (18%) of the guest's food and beverage total.

So, if you recieve poor service and call the manager over, you can pay less than the 18% "service charge".

12. An eighteen percent (18%) service charge will be added for all package plans, supplemental Food and /or Beverage purchased and consumed by the guest covered by the package plan, and Company sponsored discounts. The service charge will be based on the total charges before any discounts have been applied. This provision does not apply to Disney Dining Experience and Disney Vacation Club. This change will phase into current packages through 2006.

DVC? So if you are staying in a DVC resort they won't charge you the 18%?



Currently There is Not auto grat on the DVC 10% discount, and 20% DDE Card unless your a party of 8 or more... The DVC members get a iscount in some places, and so does annual pass holders

Nancyg56
06-13-2007, 05:53 AM
They believe they rather significantly underpriced the DDP. Perhaps they did so mistakenly, but that doesn't give their MBAs and CPAs very much credit, does it? I think it's quite plausible that they did so intentionally, as a way to get lots of formerly offsite lodgers to stay onsite (or to get onsite guests to come back more often) AND try out a new vacation element: everyday TS dining. And now that they have you, Mr. and Mrs. Consumer, hooked on staying onsite and eating TS everyday (don't forget, even though it's a "great deal," you pay a lot more for the DDP than you would if you ate CS all the time, which is how plenty of families do WDW) and loving the "convenience" of paying way in advance for your meals (it still floors me how much value some posters place on the "prepaid" factor, as if Disney is doing them a favor by depriving them of the use of their money for a couple months), they'll jack up the price to what they think you're really willing to pay. (Or effectively jack up the price by reducing the value of what you're getting in exchange for your money.) And let me be clear - there's nothing wrong with this IMO. WDW is a business.

I tend to agree with you. I do believe that Disney was using the plan to entice off site guests to fill their resort rooms and patronize their restaurants and it worked. The plan, in combination with ME, was an effective way to discourage customers from spending their vacation dollars in area attractions and Orlando eateries.

I also believe that Disney is a business and can raise the price of it's products to what the market will bear, but as a company they must be aware that budget and convenience are major factors for a majority when planning their vacation. Once price increases and convenience decreases, it will be interesting to see how many of those who have been lured onto Disney property will remain so enchanted that they will add more dollars onto their trip or will reduce their stay in order to enjoy all of the benefits included in a MYW package.

bicker
06-13-2007, 07:33 AM
Do keep in mind that Disney has really employed two major pushes aimed towards getting folks to stay on-site. Changes could be applied to reflect a preference on Disney's part of using one method (DME) over the other (DDP), now that they've had a chance to see how effective/costly (in a variety of ways) each of the respective approaches are.

Nancyg56
06-13-2007, 08:07 AM
Do keep in mind that Disney has really employed two major pushes aimed towards getting folks to stay on-site. Changes could be applied to reflect a preference on Disney's part of using one method (DME) over the other (DDP), now that they've had a chance to see how effective/costly (in a variety of ways) each of the respective approaches are.


You're right. I generally think of them in tandem because we use them both, but if there are enough people who feel that ME is enough incentive to stay on site, perhaps the changes to the DDP will not be enough of a detriment to keep them from purchasing it. They may also simply pay OOP but still send enough money Disney's way to maintain their bottom line.

Lewisc
06-13-2007, 08:51 AM
I agree.

You can book a car service for around $100 R/T. A couple can use Mears for a little less. The "value" of DME is around $100. I'm one of the people who would spend the extra few dollars for a rental car. That makes it likely I'll have a meal or two offsite.

DDP provides for the possibility of substantially more savings. Particularly when guests look at the maximum savings obtained with the plan. I agree with your figures, the savings are more modest when I compare my dining plan costs with the food I'd typically order if I was paying cash. Nevertheless DDP creates the illusion of savings that are dramatically higher.

It wouldn't take much of a price increase for the plan to make less sense for me. Without the DDP I'll have fewer TS meals, might have a dinner at B&C and might have breakfast at Fresh.

Prior to DDP and DME I'd stay offsite whenever I couldn't find the kind of rates I liked. Now I'll stay offsite, even if it means dropping down a resort category.



Do keep in mind that Disney has really employed two major pushes aimed towards getting folks to stay on-site. Changes could be applied to reflect a preference on Disney's part of using one method (DME) over the other (DDP), now that they've had a chance to see how effective/costly (in a variety of ways) each of the respective approaches are.

JimMIA
06-13-2007, 01:02 PM
The other thing to keep in mind is that DME is attractive only to those who fly to WDW and choose not to rent a car. DDP is a potential benefit to anyone who stays onsite.

There are many visitors who drive to WDW, plus many others who rent a car because they want to do more than WDW, don't want the hassle of bussing, are touring Florida, whatever.

I don't know what the % is, but I know whenever we go to one of the resorts, there are a ton of cars in the parking lot.

illiniowl
06-13-2007, 02:10 PM
I would consider EMH a third major initiative to get people to stay onsite. In fact, we would not stay onsite without it (or if it went back to the old way of only 1 extra hour in the morning). 3 extra hours at the end of the day - especially if you go, as we do, in value season when the parks close earlier, and especially if you've got young kids and like to take a mid-day break - is very valuable.

DDP in its current incarnation is a nice perk of our already having decided to stay onsite - we can spend about as much as (maybe a little more than) we used to on food eating mainly CS, but we can try some of the, frankly, overpriced TS restaurants. If tips are removed and the current price stays the same or increases, well, then, we'll go back to eating mainly CS and going to a few special TS that we really can't find close to home, like Boma and maybe a couple others. I won't spend 20-25% more on food than we're used to spending to eat food that isn't that special, i.e., that I can get at home. And Chicago is no different than many other cities across the country in that regard. It used to be there were types of restaurants here that couldn't be found for hundreds of miles, but as Americans' appetite for ethnic/creative food has skyrocketed in the last several years, you can get World Showcase-level food in the suburbs, in medium sized cities, in college towns, etc. You can certainly get it elsewhere in Orlando besides WDW, too. And all for less than Disney charges.

Now, the one thing you can't get anywhere else besides WDW is character interaction with your food, but I'll confess that we don't do character meals. I'm sure those places will stay busy, but I would think that quite a few other TS restaurants will experience a sizable drop in attendance. At any rate, I can only speak for my family, and there are many TS restaurants that we would not go to if it weren't for the DDP and the inclusion of the tip in the price.

kimberh
06-13-2007, 02:37 PM
I would consider EMH a third major initiative to get people to stay onsite. In fact, we would not stay onsite without it (or if it went back to the old way of only 1 extra hour in the morning). 3 extra hours at the end of the day - especially if you go, as we do, in value season when the parks close earlier, and especially if you've got young kids and like to take a mid-day break - is very valuable.

DDP in its current incarnation is a nice perk of our already having decided to stay onsite - we can spend about as much as (maybe a little more than) we used to on food eating mainly CS, but we can try some of the, frankly, overpriced TS restaurants. If tips are removed and the current price stays the same or increases, well, then, we'll go back to eating mainly CS and going to a few special TS that we really can't find close to home, like Boma and maybe a couple others. I won't spend 20-25% more on food than we're used to spending to eat food that isn't that special, i.e., that I can get at home. And Chicago is no different than many other cities across the country in that regard. It used to be there were types of restaurants here that couldn't be found for hundreds of miles, but as Americans' appetite for ethnic/creative food has skyrocketed in the last several years, you can get World Showcase-level food in the suburbs, in medium sized cities, in college towns, etc. You can certainly get it elsewhere in Orlando besides WDW, too. And all for less than Disney charges.

Now, the one thing you can't get anywhere else besides WDW is character interaction with your food, but I'll confess that we don't do character meals. I'm sure those places will stay busy, but I would think that quite a few other TS restaurants will experience a sizable drop in attendance. At any rate, I can only speak for my family, and there are many TS restaurants that we would not go to if it weren't for the DDP and the inclusion of the tip in the price.

You are really summing it up for how we ate, before the DDP. I refused to pay for the TS A la carte overpriced restaurants. We ate at some of the Characters and Bomas. We did eat offsite. We drive, we usually did Seaworld or Universal, with our stay. I will have to say, that the other day, the family said, " the next time we go to Orlando, we need to go to Seaworld again." With the DDP, it was pointless, I was already paying to eat on site and loving every minute of it. I am anxious to see how this all plays out. I think Disney knew exactly what they were doing, by offering it for the price that they did for 2 years, then a restaurant overcrowding has occured. Now, they may have decided to weed out the budget minded, and see what they have left.

hansel1
06-13-2007, 03:07 PM
Since you can read into statements and make all knowing observations, can you help all of us our with useful information like the lotto numbers or where Jimmy Hoffa is?

Jimmy hoffa?

I hope disneyserver gets that reference. I'm showing my age just knowing who he was.

Seriously though, Jimmy hoffa is NOT living in cuba with Elvis.