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southjerseymom
05-15-2007, 08:19 PM
Just got back last week from 7 nights at POR. We were not on the dining plan. I understand that it is a good deal but we don't like to be that structured in our trips. We had some ADR's and kept most of them (making sure to cancel when we knew we wouldn't make it!). We are not head over heels about Disney food so we plan a couple things we like to do and then wing it after that. Now why I hate the DDP:
I think that some folks make multiple ADR's and don't keep a lot of them. Does Disney check out who might have overlapping ADR's? When we used to go to WDW before DDP you could call in the morning or go to guest services and find somewhere to eat. Now they say everything is booked and they have nothing more for that evening. (I tried to get Chef Mickey's every breakfast and dinner of our trip for 2 weeks before and every day during the trip. No dice) I used to manage busy restaurants and we always held out a couple of tables every hour for walkins. That way we wouldn't lose money if people didn't show It just seems to me that there should be a way to accomodate the people who keep their reservations and make room for a couple of spur of the moment. Mostly thought I think people need to CANCEL their ADR's when they are not going to use them!!!
I think the the price of the food have gone up. Every sandwich seems to be $1.50 to @ $2.00 more. Kind of felt like Disney was sticking it to us out of pocket people. We didn't eat any differently than we have on previous trips (actually I think we at more inexpensive places than before) and our bill was a good 15%-20% higher. Way more than can be attributed to inflation or rising food costs.
Service has suffered. I really think that the service we received was consistently less that stellar - even in the pricier places. If you have servers making consistent money because they are guaranteed a certain amount off of every DP patron - they really couldn't give a hoot about a table of "out of pockets" - they have already made their money. (Believe me I know....I was a server for a long time....take away the incentive for good service and I would be cranky too!!)
Lastly, DDP makes the lines horrendous. Nobody has any idea what is included. It was a hoot to watch "first dayers" get to the register and just stand there waiting for someone to tell them if they had the right stuff. I'm not knocking people - but I came to recognize the "look" and jump to another line.
One of my biggest objections to the DDP for my family is I don't want to waste every night with a sit down dinner. I know you can "save up" for signature dinners and that is probably what I will do. Yes, I can't fight Disney...if we go back I guess I will have to get the DDP. The rising prices, cranky servers, and no available reservations beat me up this trip.

mommyaof2
05-15-2007, 08:55 PM
Oh my! Why the hostility? I was on the DDP last month and I did not hold up any lines. However, I did see people that were not on the plan holding up lines. I guess you have a right to your opinion. It sounds like you are just upset because you couldn't get your adr at CM. I made all of my adrs 5 months in advance. I guess maybe you should have too lol:goodvibes . I have some friends that have went several times without the dining plan and did not have the experiences that you have had. They did not have bad service or anything different than we did on the plan. I have heard just the opposite on this board too. I have read other people saying that if you are on the plan, then you get worse service. I think honestly, the service is just the luck of the draw sometimes. I am sorry you feel this way. I think the DDP is wonderful! It saved us over 500.00 over 9 days. I will use it again. Maybe you should try it.:thumbsup2

Devil_Dog99
05-15-2007, 09:11 PM
And thus begins another 'DDP is great' vs. 'DDP is horrible' debate.

You can see from my signature that I am a frequent WDW visitor. However, I can never see me getting the DDP. DW and I simply don't eat that much food money wise, and we don't like tieing ourselves to WDW restaurants. Many's the night we have found refuge from the WDW crowds at the Denny's right outside Hotel Plaza Blvd.

But I can also see how it can save people money if money is not an option, they have a large group that loves to eat (or splurge on what they eat).

Does it bite into some spontanaity?? Of course it does. If I was OP, I would be upset too. As much as I plan my trips, I do not like having to pin my meals down months in advance.

As far as the degradation of service, I don't know if it can be scientifically proven the DDP has had as massive an effect. The only terrible serving incident DW and I have ever had was pre DDP, and what happened fit the DDP complaints perfectly. Service unfortunately today is hit or miss. I'd like to think it's more hit than miss at WDW, but that is one man's opinion.

De gustibus non est disputandum

Now let the pro vs. con debate begin...........................popcorn::

eemmie1
05-15-2007, 09:15 PM
I like Devil do not like to have to make dining plans 180 days in advance, however because of the popularity of the DDP had to do so. I figure if you can't beat them join them. My trip in Sept will be the first time I have ever used the dinning plan. I am very excited and can't wait to try different restaurants that I would never have been able to afford if not for the DDP. :goodvibes

mommyaof2
05-15-2007, 09:20 PM
I like Devil do not like to have to make dining plans 180 days in advance, however because of the popularity of the DDP had to do so. I figure if you can't beat them join them. My trip in Sept will be the first time I have ever used the dinning plan. I am very excited and can't wait to try different restaurants that I would never have been able to afford if not for the DDP. :goodvibes

This is the right attitude! Everyone has different opinions. Wouldn't life be boring if we all thought the same way?

CR Resort Fan 4 Life
05-15-2007, 09:29 PM
I agree that the DDP has made it harder to get last minute ADR's while in WDW, because it's not fair to those that don't like to plan every meal for everyday at 180 days out.

faindrops27
05-15-2007, 09:39 PM
[QUOTE=Devil_Dog99;18685191]And thus begins another 'DDP is great' vs. 'DDP is horrible' debate.QUOTE]

:lmao: :lmao:

NEVERENOUGHWDW
05-15-2007, 09:40 PM
Just got back last week from 7 nights at POR. We were not on the dining plan. I understand that it is a good deal but we don't like to be that structured in our trips. We had some ADR's and kept most of them (making sure to cancel when we knew we wouldn't make it!). We are not head over heels about Disney food so we plan a couple things we like to do and then wing it after that. Now why I hate the DDP:
I think that some folks make multiple ADR's and don't keep a lot of them. Does Disney check out who might have overlapping ADR's? When we used to go to WDW before DDP you could call in the morning or go to guest services and find somewhere to eat. Now they say everything is booked and they have nothing more for that evening. (I tried to get Chef Mickey's every breakfast and dinner of our trip for 2 weeks before and every day during the trip. No dice) I used to manage busy restaurants and we always held out a couple of tables every hour for walkins. That way we wouldn't lose money if people didn't show It just seems to me that there should be a way to accomodate the people who keep their reservations and make room for a couple of spur of the moment. Mostly thought I think people need to CANCEL their ADR's when they are not going to use them!!!
I think the the price of the food have gone up. Every sandwich seems to be $1.50 to @ $2.00 more. Kind of felt like Disney was sticking it to us out of pocket people. We didn't eat any differently than we have on previous trips (actually I think we at more inexpensive places than before) and our bill was a good 15%-20% higher. Way more than can be attributed to inflation or rising food costs.
Service has suffered. I really think that the service we received was consistently less that stellar - even in the pricier places. If you have servers making consistent money because they are guaranteed a certain amount off of every DP patron - they really couldn't give a hoot about a table of "out of pockets" - they have already made their money. (Believe me I know....I was a server for a long time....take away the incentive for good service and I would be cranky too!!)
Lastly, DDP makes the lines horrendous. Nobody has any idea what is included. It was a hoot to watch "first dayers" get to the register and just stand there waiting for someone to tell them if they had the right stuff. I'm not knocking people - but I came to recognize the "look" and jump to another line.
One of my biggest objections to the DDP for my family is I don't want to waste every night with a sit down dinner. I know you can "save up" for signature dinners and that is probably what I will do. Yes, I can't fight Disney...if we go back I guess I will have to get the DDP. The rising prices, cranky servers, and no available reservations beat me up this trip.
Perfectly said....prices for out of pocket people have gone up so we can help pay for the DDP (not to mention free dining)...fair no but is it filling the restaurants? yes! People hold their breathe for months to get those ADRs in once they hit 180 days...forget about taking a last minute trip and expecting to eat.
We will never do the DDP and as long as it exists service will be poor and food quality will continue to go down the tubes......I hope you wore you hazmat suit after your post...Good Luck!

southjerseymom
05-15-2007, 09:45 PM
I did not mean to sound "hostile" about the folks on the DDP and I am sorry if my post made it seem so! Holding or not holding up the line was not really my focus and it was more of an aside to the greater problems ie. no reservations available, no cancellation of reservations, rise in price of out of pocket meals. I am thrilled when I read a post where everyone has their ressies in place months ahead of time....I would just like a little consideration if I don't desire to plan so extensively for my own vacation. There should be room at the "table" for all of us!

CR Resort Fan 4 Life
05-15-2007, 09:51 PM
I have always thought it would be fair for the table service restaurants to hold back just 2 or 3 tables maximum for guests wanting to come in as walk-ins. This way they don't have to turn away every guest who does not have ADR's and once those tables are filled, if they need to turn other guests away that's fine because they still saved a very small number for walk-in guests.

Mickeyluver37
05-15-2007, 09:59 PM
One of my biggest objections to the DDP for my family is I don't want to waste every night with a sit down dinner. I know you can "save up" for signature dinners and that is probably what I will do. Yes, I can't fight Disney...if we go back I guess I will have to get the DDP. The rising prices, cranky servers, and no available reservations beat me up this trip.

We have always liked to do at least one sit down meal per day. I can see with our upcoming trip that this isn't the case with most people, and since the dining plan is free in September, getting ADR's has been nearly impossible. We have some decent ones, but in previous trips, I've always gotten *exactly* what we wanted. It stinks for us because we were always willing to eat at these places even when we had to pay for it! We've never done DDP before (free or otherwise), so this should be interesting.

shondad
05-15-2007, 10:12 PM
While I am certainly not trying to upset anyone, I think it is hard to know if there are tables saved whether 2 or 10 for the night for those that don't want to plan in advance (there is nothing wrong with spontaneity BTW IMHO). But, if there are 2 or 10 couples/families/people that all think the same way then there cannot possibly be enough tables for everyone.

CR Resort Fan 4 Life
05-15-2007, 10:17 PM
While I am certainly not trying to upset anyone, I think it is hard to know if there are tables saved whether 2 or 10 for the night for those that don't want to plan in advance (there is nothing wrong with spontaneity BTW IMHO). But, if there are 2 or 10 couples/families/people that all think the same way then there cannot possibly be enough tables for everyone.If WDW were to ever do that with their table service restaurants, then my suggestion is for them to pick a number of tables to set aside and make it 1st come 1st serve to who ever gets there 1st. If no one has come in at a certin time as a walk-in, then those tables can be used for guests with ADR's.

mommyaof2
05-15-2007, 10:24 PM
I guess that I can understand the frustration with people that do not like to plan that far in advance, but that is just the way it seems to be. When we were there last month, I saw them taking walk ups almost every place we were, even LeCellier. I guess it may depend on when you want to eat or when you go to WDW.

rentayenta
05-15-2007, 10:28 PM
popcorn::

Steph9072
05-15-2007, 10:31 PM
Just got back last week from 7 nights at POR. We were not on the dining plan. I understand that it is a good deal but we don't like to be that structured in our trips. We had some ADR's and kept most of them (making sure to cancel when we knew we wouldn't make it!). We are not head over heels about Disney food so we plan a couple things we like to do and then wing it after that. Now why I hate the DDP:
I think that some folks make multiple ADR's and don't keep a lot of them. Does Disney check out who might have overlapping ADR's? When we used to go to WDW before DDP you could call in the morning or go to guest services and find somewhere to eat. Now they say everything is booked and they have nothing more for that evening. (I tried to get Chef Mickey's every breakfast and dinner of our trip for 2 weeks before and every day during the trip. No dice) I used to manage busy restaurants and we always held out a couple of tables every hour for walkins. That way we wouldn't lose money if people didn't show It just seems to me that there should be a way to accomodate the people who keep their reservations and make room for a couple of spur of the moment. Mostly thought I think people need to CANCEL their ADR's when they are not going to use them!!!
I think the the price of the food have gone up. Every sandwich seems to be $1.50 to @ $2.00 more. Kind of felt like Disney was sticking it to us out of pocket people. We didn't eat any differently than we have on previous trips (actually I think we at more inexpensive places than before) and our bill was a good 15%-20% higher. Way more than can be attributed to inflation or rising food costs.
Service has suffered. I really think that the service we received was consistently less that stellar - even in the pricier places. If you have servers making consistent money because they are guaranteed a certain amount off of every DP patron - they really couldn't give a hoot about a table of "out of pockets" - they have already made their money. (Believe me I know....I was a server for a long time....take away the incentive for good service and I would be cranky too!!)
Lastly, DDP makes the lines horrendous. Nobody has any idea what is included. It was a hoot to watch "first dayers" get to the register and just stand there waiting for someone to tell them if they had the right stuff. I'm not knocking people - but I came to recognize the "look" and jump to another line.
One of my biggest objections to the DDP for my family is I don't want to waste every night with a sit down dinner. I know you can "save up" for signature dinners and that is probably what I will do. Yes, I can't fight Disney...if we go back I guess I will have to get the DDP. The rising prices, cranky servers, and no available reservations beat me up this trip.

As far as overlapping ADR's I know that when I called to switch an ADR when we had the new one booked I said now I need to cancel the ADR I had for that night the CM said it was already canceled. She said the computer will not allow you to have more than one ADR,per phone number, at the same time slot.

Appologies to all I will be a newby on the DDP:scared1: So from May 26-Jun 2 if there is a line at a CS look at the front it will probably be me ;)

mommyaof2
05-15-2007, 10:32 PM
As far as overlapping ADR's I know that when I called to switch an ADR when we had the new one booked I said now I need to cancel the ADR I had for that night the CM said it was already canceled. She said the computer will not allow you to have more than one ADR,per phone number, at the same time slot.

Appologies to all I will be a newby on the DDP:scared1: So from May 26-Jun 2 if there is a line at a CS look at the front it will probably be me ;)

:rotfl: :lmao: :rotfl2:

Aimeedyan
05-15-2007, 10:39 PM
We need a picture of a dead horse being beaten...

Amy&Dan
05-15-2007, 10:53 PM
The bottom line is that the parks are more crowded in general. Disney began a huge marketing campaign with the 50th anniversary of Disneyland and it has worked wonderfully. The DDP is only one of many things they have done to enhance their product. I see that picture of the mom and dad booking their $1600 WDW weeklong trip while the kids are awakened by pixie dust and the thundering hooves of Cinderella's carriage, every time I watch tv. If I am seeing it, so are millions of other people. So its not just the DDP that is making the restaurants more crowded but just the increased patronage in general.

And Disneyland which does not have a DDP or anywhere near the full service restaurants that WDW is somewhat the same way. Its getting harder to walk in to restaurants you used to be able to because of the high number of park attendees. The resorts are sold out all the time. So again, its an increased overall patronage thing, not just a DDP thing.

As for the DDP folks making those ADR's in advance and ruining the spontanaeity of the non DDPlanners, that is sad but to be expected. The DDP folks have paid for their meals before they ever arrived to WDW (unless they are DVC). You prepay your resort much of the time, wouldn't it be sort of dumb to do that but not make a resort reservation, and then randomly go from resort to resort hoping to find a room? And in addition to the DDP, WDW also has the Disney Dining Experience Card. Which roughly gives you the same savings on full service dining if you are an AP holder. So the AP holders are also eating full service a lot more since they have the savings card which makes its such a good deal. I never see posts saying "I hate DDE card holders and what they have done to WDW dining".

I am sorry the OP had this experience and they aren't the only ones. But in the end as someone else said, if you can't beat them, join them. And do it 180 days out!

P.S. I have also found that when I change an ADR, the first one is automatically cancelled. So overlapping is going away as much as dining by the seat of your pants is.

marivaid
05-15-2007, 11:24 PM
And in addition to the DDP, WDW also has the Disney Dining Experience Card. Which roughly gives you the same savings on full service dining if you are an AP holder. So the AP holders are also eating full service a lot more since they have the savings card which makes its such a good deal. I never see posts saying "I hate DDE card holders and what they have done to WDW dining".

Very VERY good point. Another thing we don't see, is people bashing AP holders or FL residents and blaming the resorts price increases on the AP/FL discounts. After all you can save $100 a night for a Deluxe with those discounts. That money has to come back to Disney's pockets somehow and who do you think is going to pay ? The "masses". Yet I don't see anyone complaining about "having to pay more to make up for the AP discounts".

Amy&Dan
05-16-2007, 12:09 AM
Very VERY good point. Another thing we don't see, is people bashing AP holders or FL residents and blaming the resorts price increases on the AP/FL discounts. After all you can save $100 a night for a Deluxe with those discounts. That money has to come back to Disney's pockets somehow and who do you think is going to pay ? The "masses". Yet I don't see anyone complaining about "having to pay more to make up for the AP discounts".


I hadn't even though of the AP discounts making resort rooms higher correlation! I just think these DDP stinks threads are running their course. Whats next, DDP linked to Global Warming? The parks are crowded, people have to eat, therefore the restaurants are more crowded too. End of story.

marivaid
05-16-2007, 12:17 AM
I hadn't even though of the AP discounts making resort rooms higher correlation! I just think these DDP stinks threads are running their course. Whats next, DDP linked to Global Warming? The parks are crowded, people have to eat, therefore the restaurants are more crowded too. End of story.

Like I said in another thread about the same subject.. I expect someone to blame the DDP for the closure of HM any day now. It's getting THAT ridiculous!

Amy&Dan
05-16-2007, 12:23 AM
Like I said in another thread about the same subject.. I expect someone to blame the DDP for the closure of HM any day now. It's getting THAT ridiculous!


I read that just after I posted over on this one! Then I popped over to the Disneyland side of disboards and saw a thread where all the responders answered a "can I walk in to this restaurant" question, with a no you can't. And that was a restaurant I used to walk in to all the time. So again, its not just WDW that is feeling the affects of heighted attendance and therefore more crowded restaurants. And again, Disneyland does not have a DDP to blame for that.

Olaf
05-16-2007, 05:05 AM
P.S. I have also found that when I change an ADR, the first one is automatically cancelled. So overlapping is going away as much as dining by the seat of your pants is.

People make their ADR's under different phone numbers to get around that one.

Mackey Mouse
05-16-2007, 06:26 AM
'Whats next, DDP linked to Global Warming?'

This made me almost spit my coffee this morning.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on the DDP. I am one who will probably never do the DDP.. I am on vacation and I want to do what I want to do when I want to do it. If I cannot book a restaurant that I want, then I go somewhere else. The thing is that I have been many times and so I do not have to have the thinking, I have to eat at this restaurant. For those who this may be their first trip and they are doing it with the DDP for whatever reasons, they get to go on their vacation and stay within some kind of budget for food....perfect. As far as it overcrowding restaurants and people having to stand in line behind people who do not understand the DDP, that has not been my experience in table service restaurants.. I have seen it in food courts and quite frankly am not so sure it is confusing sometimes for both planholders and the cm's.

If it is working for Disney and the people like the DDP, then it will be here and the rest of us who do not care for the plan will have to cope. I try to just go with the flow when I am there...

PlutoLuvr
05-16-2007, 07:19 AM
Very VERY good point. Another thing we don't see, is people bashing AP holders or FL residents and blaming the resorts price increases on the AP/FL discounts. After all you can save $100 a night for a Deluxe with those discounts. That money has to come back to Disney's pockets somehow and who do you think is going to pay ? The "masses". Yet I don't see anyone complaining about "having to pay more to make up for the AP discounts".

FL resident here, and I beg to differ on the discounts currently being offered to us.

I checked into staying at AKL or CSR the week of 4/28 through 5/6, and the "best" WDW could do for this FL resident was $10 off rack rates per night at AKL and $5 off rack rates per night at CSR. Hardly a discount, IMO. I began calling to check on rates in February and continued calling through the end of March.

The CM and I had a lengthy discussion about it, actually, about how FL residents are being offered the lowest of all the discounts at this time -- compared to the two years following 9/11.

Whatever. We got a great rate at Hard Rock Hotel and spent the bulk of our time and $$$ over there instead.

For those who are disappointed with WDW dining, as we are (or their hotels for that matter), SPEAK WITH YOUR WALLETS! It's the loudest voice you have.

The Sweetness
05-16-2007, 08:27 AM
People hold their breathe for months to get those ADRs in once they hit 180 days...

I did that. And not that this is the **right attitude** ~ but IMO, anyone who knew how things are w ADR now, and didnt make them, deserves to be turned away from TS:confused3
I know that there are some unfortunate ppl who arent aware that you NEED ADR to get the places you want at the times you want.
((If it hadnt been for the DIS, I would have been one of those (maybe, I DID get the UG as well, which also reccommends ADR) I dont know if I feel sorry for ppl who cant get into TS, who didnt research their trip properly. As harsh as it sounds~ With the amt of $$ involved in a weeks vaca, if you didnt `do your homework, do you really deserve a nice TS dinner at 6pm in the parks (or whatever you wanted)

No offense intended, JMO:confused3

sportears
05-16-2007, 09:27 AM
We hate the DDP, because there is no doubt in our minds, that the DDP is at the root of the problem for the drop off of food quality at WDW. All we care about is quality food, no matter what the cost is. Disney needs to come up with a better solution for off season discounts, other than giving food away.

The Sweetness
05-16-2007, 11:42 AM
Considering the way that ALL dining packages are sold (other than DVC renters, maybe) the DDP does cost. Even during the free promo. No discounts on resort... everyone needs at least a 1 dat ticket... We pay, one way or the other. I am glad I have the chance to use it this/ next month. I would never have splurges for 8 TS dinners otherwise:goodvibes

pozey
05-16-2007, 12:08 PM
We need a picture of a dead horse being beaten...

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d94/tpozey/deadhorse.gif

southjerseymom
05-16-2007, 12:22 PM
I was the original poster of this thread. Sorry I didn't know I was beating a dead horse. Everyone is right that WDW is more crowded. That thundering pixie dust throwing horse is everywhere!!! I just don't know what the answer is. I thought the prices were way up. If I chose to do out of pocket I don't think I should have to subsidize DDP. I think service in general at Disney has gone down - whether that is related to the "evil" DDP I don't know. As far as the confusion with the DDP and lines I just don't get why Disney has made it so confusing for people. Why don't they just do it like the cruise ships. Your food is all inclusive except for a surcharge for signature dining like they do at Palo (which is absolutely the best dining experience I have had at any Disney venue!!). The bottom line is it looks like DDP is here to stay. I may consider it my next trip - but I think I will probably just go back to Universal and do day trips at the World. The hotels are nicer, more food choices, and significantly cheaper theme park tickets with Front of the Line passes. Has to be done. Thanks for all the replies and letting me vent.

southjerseymom
05-16-2007, 12:28 PM
LOL:rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:
The Horse is Priceless - Thanks for the Giggle!!:yay:

apostolic4life
05-16-2007, 12:29 PM
We need a picture of a dead horse being beaten...




....and broken records. We have it all here on the DIS!!!! :rolleyes1


:disrocks:



:thumbsup2

jezebella
05-16-2007, 12:40 PM
Oh I just feel like getting attacked today...sigh...

I don't think the DDE logic is that great because, as an AP holder and somone that lives less than 5 minutes from the mouse, we aren't eating out at Disney...why? because we can't get ADR's and we don't make reservations for a restaurant that's local to us 180 days out...do you?

KKB
05-16-2007, 12:49 PM
I have only been to WDW once, pre-DDP. We are doing DDP this time and thrilled.

Has it affected service & prices? Somewhat, no doubt.

BUT let's consider....
I have found service to be less consistent WHEREVER I dine. Sad state of our society...it's all about "me me me"...and some service workers cannot even step out of this mode for their job. That being said, I have still found amazing servers...I tip them well & continue to patronize them.

I live in a small city with an enormous amount of restaurants, yet I must wait AT LEAST an hour Th-Sat nights to get in. Oh, wait...bet I could get into IHOP. Or no issues at CS restaurants. WDW is a vacation destination. Folks want good food on vaca...the best restaurants (for food or other reasons) in ALL vacations destinations usually require reservations FAR in advance, unless you are coming during slow season or willing to eat at off times. OR you must choose less popular dining spots......:confused3 HMMMMMM...doesn't sound all that different than WDW....

Last, prices. OMG HAS ANYONE CHECKED GAS PRICES LATELY??!! AND the effect on your grocery prices? I just popped into a local CS pizzaria; 2 years ago it was 1.99 for slice, breadstick & drink. Last year 2.49. This year 3.29!! Yep, a 65% increase!!! SOOOO...I'd say prices have gone up everywhere, folks!

popcorn:: :surfweb: I'll be lurking...

fAnnF
05-16-2007, 02:25 PM
I've done both DDP and DDE and OOP

My dad and I are both light eaters so the DDP didn't work out well for us. We did like having that break in the day(we scheduled lunchs and dinners). We were there for free dining. We wouldn't pay for it if it were just the 2 of us, but for BF and I it would be worth it.

I think the DDE was the best bet for someone with an AP bf and I paid for it in just a week. We really needed the time to sit down as we're open to close park people.

I did OOP in January and felt no different then when I was on DDP and didn't notice any service changes over my 3 trips. I will say that I've been to Disney 13 times now and 10 of those I never had a TS. So the DDP works in Disney's favor as it got someone who only did CS to now want a TS a day.

I was even trying to do my June trip as a CS trip only and have 2 TS planed for a 4 day trip. Budget is keeping me from calling and booking more.

apostolic4life
05-16-2007, 02:43 PM
Oh I just feel like getting attacked today...sigh...

I don't think the DDE logic is that great because, as an AP holder and somone that lives less than 5 minutes from the mouse, we aren't eating out at Disney...why? because we can't get ADR's and we don't make reservations for a restaurant that's local to us 180 days out...do you?


....just a little input on my view. The dining venues at WDW were not created for local traffic. They are meant for the vacationers who come to the parks and/or stay in the resorts. Not trying to ruffle feathers, but WDW would not be able to stay open based on local traffic. The only way they can guarantee a profit is to make the incoming travelers fill the restaurants to capacity......hence, the birth of DDP.


:thumbsup2

CR88
05-16-2007, 02:43 PM
I have only been to WDW once, pre-DDP. We are doing DDP this time and thrilled.

Has it affected service & prices? Somewhat, no doubt.

BUT let's consider....
I have found service to be less consistent WHEREVER I dine. Sad state of our society...it's all about "me me me"...and some service workers cannot even step out of this mode for their job. That being said, I have still found amazing servers...I tip them well & continue to patronize them.

I live in a small city with an enormous amount of restaurants, yet I must wait AT LEAST an hour Th-Sat nights to get in. Oh, wait...bet I could get into IHOP. Or no issues at CS restaurants. WDW is a vacation destination. Folks want good food on vaca...the best restaurants (for food or other reasons) in ALL vacations destinations usually require reservations FAR in advance, unless you are coming during slow season or willing to eat at off times. OR you must choose less popular dining spots......:confused3 HMMMMMM...doesn't sound all that different than WDW....

Last, prices. OMG HAS ANYONE CHECKED GAS PRICES LATELY??!! AND the effect on your grocery prices? I just popped into a local CS pizzaria; 2 years ago it was 1.99 for slice, breadstick & drink. Last year 2.49. This year 3.29!! Yep, a 65% increase!!! SOOOO...I'd say prices have gone up everywhere, folks!

popcorn:: :surfweb: I'll be lurking...

Good post. I agree and was thinking the same thing as I read the other posts. We also live in a small city, actually outside of Chicago and I rarely wait less than 1-2 hours for anything on the weekends, or at least anywhere we like to dine. I also have noticed that prices seem to be going up everywhere and service in general seems to be suffering too. But, the last two times we have visited WDW our experience has been fantastic. Since we love early December and the Christmas themed attractions and events, we don't attend during the really busy peak times. Maybe that has something to do with it, or the fact that we have only visited the last two years, but I have yet to experience any issues with service or food quality, quite the contrary actually. Before recently my previous trips to WDW have been just to visit the parks and not stay on site. We enjoyed our last two trips so much, ESPECIALLY staying on site, that we bought into DVC this past December. We also tried the dining plan last year and absolutely loved it. We don't eat a lot, but like TS meals over CS and saved quite a bit of money compared to our previous trip not using the plan. Even with us having to use most of our snacks on the last day for the trip home because we couldn't eat as much as the plan offered, we still ended up way ahead. We spent almost as much on food in 4 days in ‘05 and always being hungry as we did for 6 days last year and having more food than we could eat. The steady flow of negative posts regarding the dining plan actually reminds me of the bashing Microsoft takes on a daily basis. People are always stating how bad it is and how it is making everything worse, even telling us how much better Apple or Linux is, but it is still on 90% of all computers and is not going anywhere soon. The bottom line is, as long as a majority of people see value in it and more importantly continue to use it, it is not going anywhere. There are so many people, me and my wife included, that are just happy to be there, and maybe unknowingly lower their standards or expectations. If I do, I don’t mean to, I am just enjoying my escape from the real world for the week that I am there. I have also read that many people have chosen to not use the plan and hope that it just "goes away" if enough people follow suit. Today or yesterday, not sure which one, is the day when tens of millions of Americans were going to voice their displeasure with the oil industry by not filling up. I wonder how that will affect the price of gas? Not much I expect. IMHO all is good, it's still Disney World after all, and in the long run, if it didn’t work I don’t think they would do it. :)

jezebella
05-16-2007, 03:01 PM
I'm not getting into this again...you can see our multi page post about this whole local thing. I've just decided that we aren't eating at Disney anymore. Apparenlty if I want to eat on property at a decent TS, I need to move.

afcgirl
05-16-2007, 03:05 PM
How can you give an opinion on something you have never done? :confused3

jazzgirl
05-16-2007, 03:11 PM
We have never gotten the DDP simply because it doesn't make sense for us. But if it did, I certainly would get it, I think it's great. My only beef is the ADR/table thing. We made a couple (character meals) last trip and that was it. My hubby seemed to think we didn't need anymore (I have since beat it into him that we do....and we've made them already for our upcoming trip). Our last trip (November) we walked up to the San Angel Inn on a Wednesday morning. It was about 11:30ish, for lunch. Half, and I do mean half (maybe more) of the restaurant was empty. Empty. They turned us away saying they were full/booked. :eek: Now, they could have had our money, we could've eaten our lunch and been on our merry way, I'm sure before ALL those ADR tables needed to be filled, but instead we went back to our resort, got in our rental car and went OP for lunch. I just think that there has to be a little bit of a better way to accept more walk-in people. Turning away people saying you're booked/full when half your restaurant is sitting empty is just bad business IMO.

But other than that, I think the DDP is a wonderful option for families/people who can make the best out of it!!

ETA: The reason I was a bit surprised at the turn away, is because they tell you that with an ADR it is NOT a reservation. Rather, that your party would get the next available table. However, we were turned away from empty-tabled (is that a word???) restaurants throughout our stay. So I guess I'm not knocking the DDP, but the way Disney works the whole ADR system they've got going on.

Laren
05-16-2007, 03:12 PM
People make their ADR's under different phone numbers to get around that one.

Oh my goodness! People actually do that??? Forget pool-hopping and line place holding, this to me takes the rudeness cake!

To hold up a table from another family because you can't decide where you want to eat in advance, that's just. . .just. . .:confused: :sad1: how could anyone be that selfish???

Pick a restaurant! There are lots to choose from! LOL but then stick with it!

I couldn't stand the thought that another family would lose out on eating somewhere they really wanted cause I had to have two ressies just in case I felt like eating one place over another on a different day.

The times they are a changin. We decided to 'join em' on the DDP thing this time and booked our ADRS accordingly. Yes, it's more structured than past trips. But if i was really that hung up on being totally footloose, I'd just forget table dining and eat counter.

Choices have to be made, that's just how it goes these days. Pity the people who don't read the boards and plan ahead when they show up with hungry kids and no dining options this September. I know there are going to be many of them :(

cougartrace
05-16-2007, 03:13 PM
I do believe that Disney needs to do something about the rigidness of the Disney vacation.

It doesn't feel much like a vacation if I can't flexible at all.

However, Disney can easily fix the DDP. They should deduct points at the time of the food order or have seperate lines.

No one should pay for cold food. Disney food isn't that great to begin with.

CR Resort Fan 4 Life
05-16-2007, 03:14 PM
....just a little input on my view. The dining venues at WDW were not created for local traffic. They are meant for the vacationers who come to the parks and/or stay in the resorts. Not trying to ruffle feathers, but WDW would not be able to stay open based on local traffic. The only way they can guarantee a profit is to make the incoming travelers fill the restaurants to capacity......hence, the birth of DDP.


:thumbsup2I agree with you 100% because in the end Walt Disney World would not survive without the tourists who come from all over the world to take their vacations. I know they have special Florida resident discounts and tickets, however Walt Disney World was not designed for the locals.

afcgirl
05-16-2007, 03:19 PM
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d94/tpozey/deadhorse.gif


:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

For all of you DDP haters, would you also be furious if Disney just announced it would give a 50% discount on room rates because (using your reasoning) of course there would be more people at WDW and then the resorts and restaurants would be filled up and then Disney would have to cut costs to make up for reduced profit, and then the resorts and restaurants would go to pot, etc. Would you complain about that too?

And let's not forget, even before the DDP, you had to make ADRs in advance or you took a great risk that you would not get the restaurant times you want.

cougartrace
05-16-2007, 03:21 PM
You people crack me up. You do know that without repeat posts most forums would die, don't you ?

There is nothing wrong with repeat conversations...

===================================

Being a Human and Being Treated Like a Human are two entirely different things in today's world

Laren
05-16-2007, 03:45 PM
For newbies, all the topics are new *lol*

apostolic4life
05-16-2007, 03:54 PM
For newbies, all the topics are new *lol*

Just because many of us have been hanging around the DIS for a while, does not mean we should stop open dialogue on a subject we have previously covered. Sometimes a "newbie" can have a wonderful insight or point of view that allows us to see things from a different perspective.


:thumbsup2

apostolic4life
05-16-2007, 04:04 PM
I'm not getting into this again...you can see our multi page post about this whole local thing. I've just decided that we aren't eating at Disney anymore. Apparenlty if I want to eat on property at a decent TS, I need to move.


:confused3:confused3:confused3:confused3:confused3 :confused3:confused3:confused3:confused3:confused3 :confused3:confused3:confused3:confused3

...foresight and planning are all that is required for a wonderful dining experience on WDW property (local or visitor). If any venue is going to guarantee seating for anyone, it should be for those who have made ADR's (anyone, DDP or not). As for those on the DDP, they have already paid for the meal, but if they do not make ADR's, they are out of luck. That is just the way it is, like it or not.

:thumbsup2

Laren
05-16-2007, 04:07 PM
Just because many of us have been hanging around the DIS for a while, does not mean we should stop open dialogue on a subject we have previously covered. Sometimes a "newbie" can have a wonderful insight or point of view that allows us to see things from a different perspective.


:thumbsup2

Exactly! Thank you for saying that, cause I meant that but I didn't say enough. Need more bean-juice to make the brain work LOL!

lustergirl
05-16-2007, 04:08 PM
:sad: :sad: :sad: get over it already. Some people are so he&%&%*ll bent on not having a good time on a disney vacation that they don't really have a good time. Gee when I take my disney vacation I don't go looking for the mishaps, rude people, or how full the restaurants are. I don't think the disney dining plan is ruining anything. If you want a ressie at any place with or without the dining plan you have to call ahead of time, plain and simple.

pozey
05-16-2007, 04:09 PM
I was the original poster of this thread. Sorry I didn't know I was beating a dead horse.
southjerseymom.......the dead horse smiley was not intended to directed at you. I posted it as a joke, because someone earlier said "we need the beating a dead horse smiley".

Everyone has every right to his or her opinion of the DDP.

Disney8704
05-16-2007, 04:11 PM
In my honest opinion, the DDP IS the reason why restauraunts are completely booked and you cant simply walk up to a TS anymore. I know this first hand from experience. DH and I went to Disney in Sept 2003 and Im not sure if the DDP was really going on then or not, but we were able to get into a TS place every night for dinner with no problems and hardly any wait. Been times when we walked up, they asked if we had an ADR we said no, they said ok, follow this person and we got seated right away. And this was at big places such as Chefs de France, Sci-Fi and few others. We had 1 ADR for the entire trip at CRT and thats because I knew from my previous trips you have to have a ADR for there. In my honest opinion if Disney wants to continue the DDP, fine. But they should do away with the 180 days advance ADRs and simply only take ADRs for that day. This way people can just walkin into the park, walk over to the restauraunt and get a reservation time. If nothing is available have them keep checking each day just by calling disney dining from their hotel room phones or going back to the restaraunt. It is VERY frustrating that I have to sit here and plan our days out for a 10 night / 11 day trip. What happens if we decide to go to a different park? What happens I make an ADR for 5pm but not hungry yet and know I wouldnt be for another hr or 2? I really wish Disney would know that people actually hate having to plan their days and meals out so far in advance. Another opition for walkups is do the same thing that Rainforest Cafe in DTD does. They take ADRs and walkups. If you are a walkup, they take your name and give you a buzzer or have you hang around until they call your name or find out how long the wait is, if its more then an hr, have them put your name down and you can come back when it gets closer to the time they give you.

apostolic4life
05-16-2007, 04:14 PM
southjerseymom.......the dead horse smiley was not intended to directed at you. I posted it as a joke, because someone earlier said "we need the beating a dead horse smiley".

Everyone has every right to his or her opinion of the DDP.


My joke about the broken records was just meant to be funny......I hope most thought so too.

:thumbsup2

pozey
05-16-2007, 04:20 PM
It is VERY frustrating that I have to sit here and plan our days out for a 10 night / 11 day trip. What happens if we decide to go to a different park? What happens I make an ADR for 5pm but not hungry yet and know I wouldnt be for another hr or 2? I really wish Disney would know that people actually hate having to plan their days and meals out so far in advance. Another opition for walkups is do the same thing that Rainforest Cafe in DTD does. They take ADRs and walkups. If you are a walkup, they take your name and give you a buzzer or have you hang around until they call your name or find out how long the wait is, if its more then an hr, have them put your name down and you can come back when it gets closer to the time they give you.
Okay, I have a question......just a question, nothing more.....

I always plan way ahead. I plan my days and I plan my restaurants, and I get my ADRs.

So, my question is this.......if you simply walk up to a restaurant in WDW without an ADR, are you saying that they just tell you "NO."?? Or do they try to fit you in like the example of RFC that Disney8704 just gave (minus the beeper/pager thing)?

apostolic4life
05-16-2007, 04:34 PM
In my honest opinion, the DDP IS the reason why restauraunts are completely booked and you cant simply walk up to a TS anymore. I know this first hand from experience. DH and I went to Disney in Sept 2003 and Im not sure if the DDP was really going on then or not, but we were able to get into a TS place every night for dinner with no problems and hardly any wait. Been times when we walked up, they asked if we had an ADR we said no, they said ok, follow this person and we got seated right away. And this was at big places such as Chefs de France, Sci-Fi and few others. We had 1 ADR for the entire trip at CRT and thats because I knew from my previous trips you have to have a ADR for there. In my honest opinion if Disney wants to continue the DDP, fine. But they should do away with the 180 days advance ADRs and simply only take ADRs for that day. This way people can just walkin into the park, walk over to the restauraunt and get a reservation time. If nothing is available have them keep checking each day just by calling disney dining from their hotel room phones or going back to the restaraunt. It is VERY frustrating that I have to sit here and plan our days out for a 10 night / 11 day trip. What happens if we decide to go to a different park? What happens I make an ADR for 5pm but not hungry yet and know I wouldnt be for another hr or 2? I really wish Disney would know that people actually hate having to plan their days and meals out so far in advance. Another opition for walkups is do the same thing that Rainforest Cafe in DTD does. They take ADRs and walkups. If you are a walkup, they take your name and give you a buzzer or have you hang around until they call your name or find out how long the wait is, if its more then an hr, have them put your name down and you can come back when it gets closer to the time they give you.


DW and I have been able to walk up to restaurants before and after the DDP and have been seated often. On the flip side we have been turned away many times also. To blame the DDP is overly simplistic. It is part of the problem, but it is far from being the sole reason for dining problems at WDW.

The section in bold type from your quote above is very much opinion and flies in the face of fact. If so many people hated the planning process as you claim, the numerous boards like DIS and publications available at every bookstore in the world on WDW vaction planning would not exsist. Planning a trip to WDW is a multi-billion dollar a year business. Many (or dare I say most) people love the planning process for their Disney trip. Why??? It allows us to get a little bit of that magic without actually being there. I love the anticipation of my next trip.......it gives me chills sometimes.


As for Rain Forest Cafe, the location at DTD does not accept ADR's but the one in AK does. You can walk-up to either location and add your name to the list though.

Just my two cents!

:thumbsup2

southjerseymom
05-16-2007, 04:45 PM
Pozey.....I loved the dead horse thingy!! It made me giggle! Thanks for including it in this thread. And yes - we were told no more names were being taken at some TS. Even if we were willing to wait. No biggie. We moved on and ate at counter service.

pozey
05-16-2007, 04:55 PM
Pozey.....I loved the dead horse thingy!! It made me giggle! Thanks for including it in this thread.

Good.


And yes - we were told no more names were being taken at some TS. Even if we were willing to wait. No biggie. We moved on and ate at counter service.
I was not aware of that. We always make ADRs in advance. But then, I can be very anal when it comes to planning.

Plus, we usually eat dinner pretty early - some might even call it more of a late lunch - usually around 4:30 - 5:00 pm. We have NEVER not gotten an ADR for the restaurant that we wanted.

NEVERENOUGHWDW
05-16-2007, 05:03 PM
Considering the way that ALL dining packages are sold (other than DVC renters, maybe) the DDP does cost. Even during the free promo. No discounts on resort... everyone needs at least a 1 dat ticket... We pay, one way or the other. I am glad I have the chance to use it this/ next month. I would never have splurges for 8 TS dinners otherwise:goodvibes
If it does cost how will you be dining at 8 ts you would have never "splurged" on? You just proved my point about DDP making quality, service and availabilty ridiculous.
The fact is CS people now use TS where they never would have in the past. This has caused all the above mentioned issues.

angipoo
05-16-2007, 05:04 PM
Pozey, dead horse was great!

I guess it also comes down to whether you are a planner or more spontaneous. We are planners. I am not saying that is "better", just that the DDP definitely caters to planners. We spend months checking out restaurants, pouring over menus, deciding what to order and we have a great time doing it. It is one of our hobbies.

For us, spontaneity on vacation(particularly a Disney vacation) would be a nightmare. We have pages of planning for our Disney vacation. Again, not saying that is "better", but just making the observation that maybe some of the people who like DDP like the planning aspect and some of the people who don't like it prefer to be more free in their decisions of which park to go to on which day.

One final thing - DDP also benefits us as we know how much we are going to spend on food, so we don't blow our budget.

NEVERENOUGHWDW
05-16-2007, 05:09 PM
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

For all of you DDP haters, would you also be furious if Disney just announced it would give a 50% discount on room rates because (using your reasoning) of course there would be more people at WDW and then the resorts and restaurants would be filled up and then Disney would have to cut costs to make up for reduced profit, and then the resorts and restaurants would go to pot, etc. Would you complain about that too?

And let's not forget, even before the DDP, you had to make ADRs in advance or you took a great risk that you would not get the restaurant times you want.
Yes I would. As you stated then the "resorts would go to pot," they would take a steep incline in quality just like dining has.

marivaid
05-16-2007, 05:14 PM
If it does cost how will you be dining at 8 ts you would have never "splurged" on? You just proved my point about DDP making quality, service and availabilty ridiculous.
The fact is CS people now use TS where they never would have in the past. This has caused all the above mentioned issues.

It does cost because the DDP users will be the ones paying rack rates for their resorts when AP holders pay less than $200 a night instead of $350. Funny how it's acceptable for some people to get a good deal and not for others.

NEVERENOUGHWDW
05-16-2007, 05:18 PM
I did that. And not that this is the **right attitude** ~ but IMO, anyone who knew how things are w ADR now, and didnt make them, deserves to be turned away from TS:confused3
I know that there are some unfortunate ppl who arent aware that you NEED ADR to get the places you want at the times you want.
((If it hadnt been for the DIS, I would have been one of those (maybe, I DID get the UG as well, which also reccommends ADR) I dont know if I feel sorry for ppl who cant get into TS, who didnt research their trip properly. As harsh as it sounds~ With the amt of $$ involved in a weeks vaca, if you didnt `do your homework, do you really deserve a nice TS dinner at 6pm in the parks (or whatever you wanted)

No offense intended, JMO:confused3
Offense Taken...Have you ever done a trip last minute? How would you remedy couples, etc. who decides on a Wed. that Fri. night they would like to return to the GF for a long weekend? They shouldn't be able to eat at TS (which is all they use $$$) for 4 nights but yet there are plenty of GF rooms available how would you fix that?

Laren
05-16-2007, 05:31 PM
Offense Taken...Have you ever done a trip last minute? How would you remedy couples, etc. who decides on a Wed. that Fri. night they would like to return to the GF for a long weekend? They shouldn't be able to eat at TS (which is all they use $$$) for 4 nights but yet there are plenty of GF rooms available how would you fix that?

Yes, I have planned a trip for a family of four on Saturday night and flown out Tuesday morning early. I have planned several other trips on a week or less.

Think of it from Disney's standpoint. They can't count on last-minute travelers, it's not their business. Most people can't afford to take spur of the moment vacations like that especially nowadays (we are going back to the World for the first time in four years ourselves this fall; that's a new record for length between trips and it was purly economical)

I personally think that they should hold back a few tables at resort restaurants for guests of that resort only. when I realized that we might not be able to eat at Kona even though we're staying at Poly, that bugged me. But since we're planning so far out, I just booked ADR's there twice so we will get in.

When you go last minute, you have to take what you can get. But to me that's part of the fun.

On our planned in less than 48 hours trip, we got there, hated the resort we picked, and so chose to move hotels 3 times in 5 days to stay in deluxes instead. Our choice. We didn't get upset that they didn't have rooms available to offer us at the CR when we wanted to stay in the room they had for 2 nights. We just moved hotels.

If you do last minute anymore, you get what you get. It's not the fault of other travelers, it's that disney would rather bank on long-term planners with big families than the couples who can drop everything and go for a long weekend.

I think that's shortsighted, but I understand the business of why they do it.

Amy&Dan
05-16-2007, 05:39 PM
Offense Taken...Have you ever done a trip last minute? How would you remedy couples, etc. who decides on a Wed. that Fri. night they would like to return to the GF for a long weekend? They shouldn't be able to eat at TS (which is all they use $$$) for 4 nights but yet there are plenty of GF rooms available how would you fix that?

But that happens everywhere! For instance my friend and I decided in March on a Wednesday that on Saturday morning we were going to take our daughters up to Glenwood Springs (about three hours from where I live) in the mountains to enjoy the hot springs and stay overnight. Couldn't get the hotel we wanted. So we had to stay at another place much further away. The place was packed, I have never in 35 years of living in Colorado seen Glenwood that crowded that time of year. The people at the hot springs remarked they were shocked and that for the last couple of years it just keeps getting busier, all year long. I am sure that if I lived right outside Vegas and wanted to take a last minute trip there, stay in the hotel of my choice and dine at one of the many nice restaurants at that hotel, I might have trouble. WDW is one of the most popular destinations in the world. I still think that the DDP is not the real culprit of ruining the last minute, flexible vacation but rather a travel industry that is much more busy. And again, I want to stress that at Disneyland where there is no DDP, you can't walk into restaurants anymore, or stay onsite for last minute getaways there either.

marivaid
05-16-2007, 05:44 PM
Offense Taken...Have you ever done a trip last minute? How would you remedy couples, etc. who decides on a Wed. that Fri. night they would like to return to the GF for a long weekend? They shouldn't be able to eat at TS (which is all they use $$$) for 4 nights but yet there are plenty of GF rooms available how would you fix that?

December 31st, 6pm, we checked at the front desk to see if we could change our ADR that night. We had 3 options : Maya Grill, Grand Floridian Cafe and the TS place at POR. If there are ADRs available on New Year's Eve on such short notice I really doubt that you can't get an ADR somewhere on a regular night.

DonaldTDuck
05-16-2007, 05:50 PM
Hotels hold rooms for those with ressies, but restaurants shouldn't? Or just Disney? I agree, they should seat you if half the place is empty. Those ressies are for next available. But why would anyplace hold tables for drop ins and not take ressies?

mkross
05-16-2007, 06:01 PM
We'll, this will be our first year on DDP, but last year my DD9 and I went to disneyland (pre-disboards...don't know how we survived!)....and we could not get into a single TS without a two hour wait....ended up at CS again. I have to say this was very upsetting. Now mind you.....this was DL....no DDP there and still impossible w/o ADR's. I made mine at the 180 mark for our upcoming trip. As nice as it would be to fly by the seat of my pants (which my DH loves to do), I am a planner and at least know we can eat TS on vacation this year!

luv2nascar
05-16-2007, 07:51 PM
I think disney could alleviate the problem with walk ups and adrs with more table service restaurants. The buffet they had in El Pirata y el perico sounded good. Why not a table service there.

MommaPooh217
05-16-2007, 08:02 PM
You can always try walking up. Last year DFam (9 in all )wanted to dine at Teppanyaki and I kept calling and calling and the answer was no no no ADR's every time. On 9/30 I took DD 7 to MNSSHP and DH along with 6 other members of my family went to Epcot that evening and while DD and I ate at LTT in MK they walked up to Teppanyaki and got a table there, they had to wait maybe 30 minutes but they got a table. So don't give up on walking up and trying. You never know you might get lucky :) .


Blessed Be,
Tina

myladyisatramp
05-16-2007, 08:05 PM
We are doing the DDP in November when we go. I called at 180 days out to get my ADR, best I could think up this far in advance. I knew about 5 of the nights where I wanted to eat. There is nothing like sitting down to a nice meal and being waited on after running around all day, to catch up with everyone. I don't think its all that bad. I am sure I will change or cancel a few but at least I have something to work on. Just my opinion

limabeanmom2003
05-16-2007, 08:21 PM
We just returned from our trip with the DDP. Have to say I loved it! The food was great and service was great too. I was afraid that it would be way to much food, but the portions were reasonable. All the TS restaurants were packed, so I was glad I made my ADR's way in advance. What I did notice was that when I had concierge at our hotel print out a list of our ADR's the ones I had called and cancelled months ago were still listed. HMMM... not sure why. There were several where I had changed the time and both the original reservation and the newer one were both listed. I had made the changes months ago. The one complaint I have is that TS takes way too long. We have 2 little ones and we found that TS meals were running about 2 hrs. It seemed to take forever to get the desserts. We found that the best way to shorten the dinner was to order everything at once. However, in Morocco this caused our dessert to arrive before our entrees. He He He - no problem, they just brought them later. Normally, at a TS I would never order a $30 entree. I would instead order the $18 pasta dish. And we would never eat TS everyday. But with DDP, we ate like royalty, never worrying about prices of entrees and spending the same or less per day than we would if we were paying out of pocket and eating CS twice a day. I especially loved the fact that it was all paid in advance. And the food! So much food! I will definitely do the DDP again and I have been recommending it to friends who are traveling to disney in the future. My big piece of advice is book your ADR's early because the TS fill up!

Mickeyluver37
05-16-2007, 08:22 PM
If it does cost how will you be dining at 8 ts you would have never "splurged" on? You just proved my point about DDP making quality, service and availabilty ridiculous.
The fact is CS people now use TS where they never would have in the past. This has caused all the above mentioned issues.


I definitely agree with this. For us, if we would have had to eat nothing but counter service in the past, we just wouldn't have gone at all. (People really eat nothing but cheeseburgers, chicken fingers, etc for a week straight?) Now that being said, we were going to do just that this year- not go at all. But we just couldn't pass up free dining. It sounds like it's gotten out of control, and I'd be surprised to see it offered again next year.

CR Resort Fan 4 Life
05-16-2007, 08:27 PM
I personally think that they should hold back a few tables at resort restaurants for guests of that resort only. when I realized that we might not be able to eat at Kona even though we're staying at Poly, that bugged me. But since we're planning so far out, I just booked ADR's there twice so we will get in.I always thought there was a un written rule that if a guest wanted an ADR at the last minute for a restaurant in their own Resort where they are staying, most likely the Cast Member will be able to make them that ADR.

TheDisneyClan
05-16-2007, 10:56 PM
I always thought there was a un written rule that if a guest wanted an ADR at the last minute for a restaurant in their own Resort where they are staying, most likely the Cast Member will be able to make them that ADR.

I really wanted a ressie for Park Fare dinner with Cindy and Prince charming, however no ADRs avail. Fast forward to my vacation. I stopped at the front desk of GF and after 5 minutes of wonderful conversation...a TS for that night at my requested time. I was so pleased...we weren't staying at the GF, but they treated so well! :surfweb: :)

CR Resort Fan 4 Life
05-16-2007, 11:10 PM
I really wanted a ressie for Park Fare dinner with Cindy and Prince charming, however no ADRs avail. Fast forward to my vacation. I stopped at the front desk of GF and after 5 minutes of wonderful conversation...a TS for that night at my requested time. I was so pleased...we weren't staying at the GF, but they treated so well! :surfweb: :)Congragulations that must have been a nice surprise?

3jsmommy
05-17-2007, 06:33 AM
Hotels hold rooms for those with ressies, but restaurants shouldn't? Or just Disney? I agree, they should seat you if half the place is empty. Those ressies are for next available. But why would anyplace hold tables for drop ins and not take ressies?
:thumbsup2
We'll, this will be our first year on DDP, but last year my DD9 and I went to disneyland (pre-disboards...don't know how we survived!)....and we could not get into a single TS without a two hour wait....ended up at CS again. I have to say this was very upsetting. Now mind you.....this was DL....no DDP there and still impossible w/o ADR's. I made mine at the 180 mark for our upcoming trip. As nice as it would be to fly by the seat of my pants (which my DH loves to do), I am a planner and at least know we can eat TS on vacation this year!
I believe this just ended the "it's all the DDP's fault" argument..thanks!:goodvibes
I do have sympathy for first timers who don't know any better and don't have ADRs, but if your on this site...thats your choice (as has been said) just not a very smart one:rolleyes1

Mackey Mouse
05-17-2007, 06:39 AM
It is supply and demand. If you go, when it crowded, i.e. Spring Break or over Holidays... then I would say you definitely need to do ADR's if you have certain times that you have to eat at certain restaurants..

We have always been flexible, maybe we do not get our first choice, or the exact time, but we always do table service... very rarely counter, an occasional hot dog at Casey's, we just go with the flow. But we always try to avoid peak times when we visit, we are DVC and have no restrictions on when we can visit... our children are grown and do not have to stick to school vacations (although I notice many do not do that, we did, but that is another subject entirely) and try to go when it is cold where we live and warm in Florida.

a1tinkfans
05-17-2007, 07:52 AM
We got the free dining promo last year and LEARNED HERE ON THE BOARDS that Adr's were needed! That was invaluable because we too experienced a time when we thought we could make a change of restaurant, but could not. As far as service goes, we really have positive experiences there too!
I agree to three things mentioned here
1. People should really cancel their ADR's if they know they are not going to use it.
2. I agree that tables should be available to those without the DDP (and I'm rather sure they do that but the demand is likely more than what they have available)
3. I think it is Crazy/funny that we are planning what and where and when we want to eat 180 days out, LOL:rotfl2: when I can't figure out what I'm serving tonight for dinner! :laughing:
We are on free dining again this year (bounce back promo) and looking forward to it! :banana:
Have a wonderful day everyone!! :grouphug:

Harambe
05-17-2007, 08:06 AM
Sorry - but I haven't read this whole thread. Just wanted to say that we have found that we get BETTER service because we are not on the DDP (we don't even do the free one - just a personal choice, which I don't bother to defend any longer, as others have actually called me stupid because of my choice).

We've had servers look at us warily, and sigh while asking if we're on the DDP. When we say no, they actually seem to brighten, and we get great service! Maybe it's just fun for them to "work the table" to see if they get a good tip (better than the standard DDP tip) - who knows!

And altho I can't use the word "hate", I also dislike the DDP for taking away a lot of spontaniety for folks heading to Disney. It's cool to have it as an option, but I don't like the way Disney is steering the whole thing, so folks will HAVE to have it to eat at Disney.

Disney8704
05-17-2007, 08:30 AM
Maybe the servers are getting fed up with the dining plan. People use it to their full advantage. While some may not get the appitizer, entree and desert, some people probably do. Theres probably some people who use the entire thing per person. Each person gets an appitizer, entree and desert. The DDP is making the servers work harder, and they are probably getting burnt out. Another thing is they are probably getting tired of having to answer questions whats aloud and what isnt or getting tired of explaining how it works, especially to those who have never had the DDP before and they are using their first TS credit for that trip. If you paying OOP, you dont have to ask those questions. Only questions you have to ask is something about a item on the menu or to tell them to leave such and such off like no onion on my hamburger or something. We dont know how it is behind the scenes when it comes to paying either. They might have to do more work when paying with the DDP. They might have to stand there and try to figure out what the 18% tip is, or who knows what else. Another thing is I just thought of something. We all know that the servers get taxed on the bill and they have to pay that tax by using tip money. Well, what if Disney has it set up to where everyone automatically gets the appitizer, entree and desert. If someone doesnt get a desert or whatever, maybe the server has to pay Disney for that loss. You never know. Why else do you think Im always reading on here that their waiter tried to shove everything on them when they are on the DDP. We just know what we get on the DDP and what the server gets for tips. We however dont know the behind the scenes.

Sorry - but I haven't read this whole thread. Just wanted to say that we have found that we get BETTER service because we are not on the DDP (we don't even do the free one - just a personal choice, which I don't bother to defend any longer, as others have actually called me stupid because of my choice).

We've had servers look at us warily, and sigh while asking if we're on the DDP. When we say no, they actually seem to brighten, and we get great service! Maybe it's just fun for them to "work the table" to see if they get a good tip (better than the standard DDP tip) - who knows!

And altho I can't use the word "hate", I also dislike the DDP for taking away a lot of spontaniety for folks heading to Disney. It's cool to have it as an option, but I don't like the way Disney is steering the whole thing, so folks will HAVE to have it to eat at Disney.

Christine
05-17-2007, 09:33 AM
We've had servers look at us warily, and sigh while asking if we're on the DDP. When we say no, they actually seem to brighten, and we get great service! Maybe it's just fun for them to "work the table" to see if they get a good tip (better than the standard DDP tip) - who knows!




We have noticed the same thing. Almost a sigh of relief can be heard when you tell the waiters that you aren't on the DDP.:confused3

CR88
05-17-2007, 09:52 AM
Offense Taken...Have you ever done a trip last minute? How would you remedy couples, etc. who decides on a Wed. that Fri. night they would like to return to the GF for a long weekend? They shouldn't be able to eat at TS (which is all they use $$$) for 4 nights but yet there are plenty of GF rooms available how would you fix that?

Just curious, doesn't Disney allot a certain number of tables for walk-up or day-of guests? I didn't know that they can allocate all tables for ADR and reserve the entire restaurant. Granted, we have only been to WDW the past 2 years while the DDP was in effect, but we were actually able to get reservations the-day-of, or during the course of our stay on a few occasions. We usually go in early December, which is not a peak time, but the only restaurants that turned us down without an ADR was Coral Reef last year and San Angel the year before. This year we are planning way ahead, I have had all of our ADR's planned for our Dec trip since early April and we can't actually book them until early June. I am just curious though, my family operates a few restaurants and they would never book a whole restaurant for reservations only. They always keep about a quarter of the tables for those that just show up or call ahead. You do have to show up pretty early on weekends and special occasions, but there should be some tables for those who didn't have the option of planning way ahead, or just want to be spontaneous. JMHO, but we do love the DDP.

afcgirl
05-17-2007, 11:12 AM
Yes I would. As you stated then the "resorts would go to pot," they would take a steep incline in quality just like dining has.

No I said under your reasoning the resorts would go to pot. And I think most people (even you) would be racing to the phone to make ressies.

And there is absolutely no proof that the DDP has caused a decline in dining quality, in my opinion dining is just as good. I think it is sour grapes, pure and simple.

marivaid
05-17-2007, 12:13 PM
Just wanted to say that we have found that we get BETTER service because we are not on the DDP.

Many others here have disagreed. Like I said many times, we were only on the DDP for half our stay, and got the same service whether we were on the plan or not.
And altho I can't use the word "hate", I also dislike the DDP for taking away a lot of spontaniety for folks heading to Disney.

The ADR situation is exactly the same at Disneyland where there isn't a DDP option.

A lot of guests are just wising up and getting info before they spend 3K for a vacation. It's the same with airlines or any major touristic spot in the world.
Try to find a hotel room in NYC & Broadway tickets for tomorrow night and see what your options are !

jazzgirl
05-17-2007, 12:25 PM
I agree that nowadays you just have to plan ahead, no big deal for most (except those darn last minute trips ;) ). However, I still think it's bad business to turn other guests away from a half empty restaurant because somebody didn't cancel their ADR or they haven't shown up yet. The way I understood it (as I wrote before), is that although they are called Advance Dinner Reservations, they aren't really reservations but like PS used to be. You get the next available table. Meaning that your wait could be 5 minutes or 15. I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. Do I think it's "all because of DDP"? Nah, not all. Maybe in part because more people are doing TS when they otherwise wouldn't. But mostly I just think (and again it's just my opinion) that Disney is overbooking their restaurants with ADRs and not taking walk-ins into as much consideration. Like I said, we were turned away from several half empty restaurants with the "we're full/booked" reason. But my reasoning has really not much to do with DDP but ADRs, so I'm sorry for getting OT!! :)

TheDisneyGirl02
05-17-2007, 12:29 PM
This summer I will be taking my first trip on the DDP. I'm looking forward to it because it's something new. In the past, we've waited until we've gotten down there to get our TS ADRs...and if they weren't available I didn't blame anybody but ourselved for waiting too long. If we would have planned ahead, we would have been able to eat where we wanted to eat. No big deal to us! After all, restaurants, regardless of where they are, only can serve so many people in one night. If that many people have been booked, then we're out of luck! We still had a wonderful trip!

:)

Biggreen19
05-17-2007, 12:36 PM
I cannot comment on the DDP, I have never purchased it. I have observed over the last 4 years however, there has been a small, but general decline in food quality, and reduced menu options as other posters have mentioned.

NYDisGuy
05-17-2007, 01:17 PM
I agree that nowadays you just have to plan ahead, no big deal for most (except those darn last minute trips ;) ). However, I still think it's bad business to turn other guests away from a half empty restaurant because somebody didn't cancel their ADR or they haven't shown up yet. The way I understood it (as I wrote before), is that although they are called Advance Dinner Reservations, they aren't really reservations but like PS used to be. You get the next available table. Meaning that your wait could be 5 minutes or 15. I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. Do I think it's "all because of DDP"? Nah, not all. Maybe in part because more people are doing TS when they otherwise wouldn't. But mostly I just think (and again it's just my opinion) that Disney is overbooking their restaurants with ADRs and not taking walk-ins into as much consideration. Like I said, we were turned away from several half empty restaurants with the "we're full/booked" reason. But my reasoning has really not much to do with DDP but ADRs, so I'm sorry for getting OT!! :)

They are Dining reservations. My travel agent always tells me to arrive 15 minutes before your ADR so they know you will be eating there, and 30-45 minutes before dinner shows.

And in my opinion, I think that the families who order the three courses are taking more time than the families who order the entree and maybe coffee. This may be burning out the waiter/waitress and the tables are not turning over as fast as they would normally without the DDP, which is why some servers may be getting peeved, since less turnover = less tip.

DonaldTDuck
05-17-2007, 01:32 PM
They are Dining reservations. My travel agent always tells me to arrive 15 minutes before your ADR so they know you will be eating there, and 30-45 minutes before dinner shows.

And in my opinion, I think that the families who order the three courses are taking more time than the families who order the entree and maybe coffee. This may be burning out the waiter/waitress and the tables are not turning over as fast as they would normally without the DDP, which is why some servers may be getting peeved, since less turnover = less tip.

Why sould there be less tip if the DDP user is getting an appetizer, entree, drink and dessert? The bill would be larger, thus the tip larger. And many servers have noticed that many guests will tip MORE for good service. Lome don't because they treat the DDP like the plague. I think the ploblem some servers have is they haven't taken the time to understand the plan, then have a hard time answering questions.

jazzgirl
05-17-2007, 01:49 PM
They are Dining reservations. My travel agent always tells me to arrive 15 minutes before your ADR so they know you will be eating there, and 30-45 minutes before dinner shows.


Right. And I agree you should always arrive as early as you possibly can (within reason) to your ADR time. But here's a direct quote from my 2007 Passporter.

"...Walt Disney World allows you to make "Advance Reservations" (formerly known as "priority seating"). Unlike traditional reservations, in which a table would be held for your party at a designated time, Disney's advance reservation system gives you the first table that becomes available." (was bold in the book as well).

So it's not a true "reservation", right? And THAT is why I find it strange and surprising that they turn people away (walk-ups). I'm not talking about full restaurants at a peak time, that's obvious to me. I'm talking about walking up to a restaurant and seeing that it's half (or partially) empty and having them tell you they are booked. I just see it as bad for business.

cougartrace
05-17-2007, 02:46 PM
any which way it goes, Disney has an issue with inflexibility.

When people go on a vacation they don't like to be tied by schedules and such.

Disney has gotten so bad that for the average family going for the average amount of days, it's hard not to plan the better part of your days and meals.

For many people, including me, that doesn't feel like a vacation.

I know many people who won't go back to Disney because of this issue.

PatriciaH
05-17-2007, 03:35 PM
The way I understood it (as I wrote before), is that although they are called Advance Dinner Reservations, they aren't really reservations but like PS used to be. You get the next available table. Meaning that your wait could be 5 minutes or 15.

You are correct. They are still "priority seating" just called ADR's.

lustergirl
05-17-2007, 03:45 PM
any which way it goes, Disney has an issue with inflexibility.

When people go on a vacation they don't like to be tied by schedules and such.

Disney has gotten so bad that for the average family going for the average amount of days, it's hard not to plan the better part of your days and meals.

For many people, including me, that doesn't feel like a vacation.

I know many people who won't go back to Disney because of this issue.


I can't see this happening- alot of people will continue to go to disney. To me part of the fun is planning my disney vacation including making my dinner reservations well ahead of time. I don't feel tied down by schedules as I enjoy knowing where I can eat and being able to get into that restaurant when I want to. It would drive me nuts not to have an ADR and want to eat at a particular place and not being able to get in!! I think some people think that they can just go to disney and whatever happens happens and if they can't get into a restaurant then they get mad- so be it, you should of planned instead of griping about it afterwards.. Such is life. Do people buy something new without checking it out first?? In order to enjoy something new you should be armed with all of the knowledge possible.
Planning with your ADR's makes a disney vacation more enjoyable- less stressful in the long run.

Disney has gotten so bad that for the average family going for the average amount of days, it's hard not to plan the better part of your days and meals.

Considering the amount of money that you actually spend on a disney vacation I plan away.

Mkrop
05-17-2007, 06:12 PM
We just got back and both DH and I loved and disliked (not hated) the DDP and ADR situation.

We thought it was a good value and way too much food which I did not like, I dont eat that much but DH loved because he LOVES to eat.

We plan most of our trip and I told DH that we needed to make ADRs but he did not want to be tied down to really strict plans and really couldnt believe we would have a hard time getting in somewhere although I told him what I read on the DIS. I am a planner, he is to a degree but would like flexiblity. I think it is a matter of personality. I talked to a freind of mine and she thought the whole planning thing did not sound very vacation like to her. So to each his/her own. We also were hesitant to plan too much because of having kids. DS9 is the energizer bunny but DS4 does not have that kind of endurance so we had no idea when we would be eating dinner etc. I mean one night he fell asleep at 7, we had pushed that day but luckily we ate at 5:30. So anyway kids factored into why we did not want to plan the whole trip down to the second. Although I would never do a Dsiney trip and not plan!!!!

So this is what I did, I also knew that DH would not stand in line for chacracter greets in the park so I made breakfast or lunch ADRs for character meals every day. This worked out great for us and DH was glad I did this afterwards.

Now we were able to do a walkin one morning, we had an ADR for Chef Mickey later in the week but when we walked down to have breakfast at CR Chef Mickey looked empty and so DH ran over and asked and we got in, we wound up with two character meals that day, there and CP for lunch but oh well. We did then cancel the ADR for later in the week so hopefully someone else got in!

Now the only thing DH wanted (although he would not let me make an ADR) was dinner at Concourse Steakhouse (esp since it will not be there next time we go) so we got back from AK that day and he tried calling down and they had nothing open for all evening, the only thing they had available was 5:30, well we had just eaten at AK at 2 so we were not all that hungry but I convinced DH we should take it because I thought DS4 would not make it very long(He didnt). It was one of our best meals along with CP and Garden Grill.

Now CS was another issue, we thought most stunk except for Seasons in Epcot. And one night at MK we tried for almost two hours to try and find some counter service to eat and they were either packed or had food my kids wouldnt eat. We wound up with McD's fries and ice cream for dinner. Good thing we had the CM for breakfast and the CP for lunch that day.

Also a friend of mine is going down next weekend to meet her DH after a business trip so they are going to EPCOT for the day because he has never been to WDW in his life. So I gave her the heads up about ADRs becasue she had no idea and is going to see what she can get. She really wants to surprise him with this so I hope she lucks out!

NEVERENOUGHWDW
05-17-2007, 06:54 PM
No I said under your reasoning the resorts would go to pot. And I think most people (even you) would be racing to the phone to make ressies.

And there is absolutely no proof that the DDP has caused a decline in dining quality, in my opinion dining is just as good. I think it is sour grapes, pure and simple.


You are wrong. I would rather pay full price for a deluxe resort and enjoy deluxe accomadations, service and dining than a so called DDP style of hotels. I do believe in the case of Disney you should get what you pay for hence those who pay should get quality, service, high end menu items that have been erased due to the fact that we must agree that is what DDPer's would jump on....I know you have read hundreds of threads that tell the same old story, "I would never buy a $30 entree, I never have several courses but I do there, we always ate at CS not anymore," has greatly compromised quality, sevice and presentation to accomadate quantity and the bottom line.

TMB1203
05-17-2007, 07:19 PM
First...I loved the "beating the dead horse" picture...funny stuff!


We did DDP for the first time this year, previously we were not able to participate b/c we are DVC members. I loved it.
I do have to say that our habits did not change all the much being on the plan.

We always make our ADR's 180 days out and usually do 1 TS per day.
The only difference is that we didn't usually have snacks w/o DDP.

We paid for 1 TS OOP this year and there was NO difference in our service.

I think that a big problem are the families that make ADR's and then no show. Maybe Disney should start to guarantee reservations with a credit card. If you no show, they charge your card x amount. That would cut down on the number of jerks that don't show up!!

DiszyDean
05-17-2007, 07:19 PM
You are wrong. I would rather pay full price for a deluxe resort and enjoy deluxe accomadations, service and dining than a so called DDP style of hotels. I do believe in the case of Disney you should get what you pay for hence those who pay should get quality, service, high end menu items that have been erased due to the fact that we must agree that is what DDPer's would jump on....I know you have read hundreds of threads that tell the same old story, "I would never buy a $30 entree, I never have several courses but I do there, we always ate at CS not anymore," has greatly compromised quality, sevice and presentation to accomadate quantity and the bottom line.

1. So what actually defines a "DDP style of hotel"....?

2. I think the vast majority do get what they pay for because a lot keep coming back for more.

3. The fact that ordinary people are able to afford to eat at sit down establishments within WDW really seems to bother you.

Tinkerbell24
05-17-2007, 07:28 PM
1. So what actually defines a "DDP style of hotel"....?

2. I think the vast majority do get what they pay for because a lot keep coming back for more.

3. The fact that ordinary people are able to afford to eat at sit down establishments within WDW really seems to bother you.

Well put! I don't know what a "DDP style of hotel is" but oh well. The DDP gives people the chance to get that dining plan and save lots of money. And if DDP hotels are being refered to as values (because this other person would rather stay at a deluxe) than thats wrong. Some people stay at a value because it is the most affordable way to go on vacation. I just finished my first year of college and my DBF just finished his second. Being a college student takes up a lot of time so we don't work full time making as much money a year as others. We can still go on vacation and afford it, and we enjoy our time. Besides, why pay all of that extra money when you are out at the parks the entire day? For us that would be a waste of money. I think some people need to realize that not everyone is wealthy and they do what they have to to go on vacation, even if that means staying at a value.

NEVERENOUGHWDW
05-17-2007, 07:34 PM
3. The fact that ordinary people are able to afford to eat at sit down establishments within WDW really seems to bother you.

I guess in a way it does.....the huge impact DDP has made on Disney restaurants IMO is terrible in all the ways I have already mentioned.

From reading other posts I see I'm not the only one and I believe Disney will one day take this into consideration and make some changes that caters to all.

DiszyDean
05-17-2007, 07:35 PM
Well put! I don't know what a "DDP style of hotel is" but oh well. The DDP gives people the chance to get that dining plan and save lots of money. And if DDP hotels are being refered to as values (because this other person would rather stay at a deluxe) than thats wrong. Some people stay at a value because it is the most affordable way to go on vacation. I just finished my first year of college and my DBF just finished his second. Being a college student takes up a lot of time so we don't work full time making as much money a year as others. We can still go on vacation and afford it, and we enjoy our time. Besides, why pay all of that extra money when you are out at the parks the entire day? For us that would be a waste of money. I think some people need to realize that not everyone is wealthy and they do what they have to to go on vacation, even if that means staying at a value.

And I think your views represent the great majority.

As far as I am concerned, the "elite" who tend to look down upon people staying at value resorts or those who sign up for the DDP, should take their vacation dollars elsewhere. Go elsewhere and spend your money at some exclusive resort in the Caribbean where you can be with people of your perceived wealth and stature and leave WDW to the regular folks.

DiszyDean
05-17-2007, 07:37 PM
3. The fact that ordinary people are able to afford to eat at sit down establishments within WDW really seems to bother you.

I guess in a way it does.....the huge impact DDP has made on Disney restaurants IMO is terrible in all the ways I have already mentioned.

From reading other posts I see I'm not the only one and I believe Disney will one day take this into consideration and make some changes that caters to all.

Well, you may not be the only one...but you are in the vast minority, I would be willing to bet.

And Disney will always cater to the wants and needs of the majority.

TMB1203
05-17-2007, 07:42 PM
From reading other posts I see I'm not the only one and I believe Disney will one day take this into consideration and make some changes that caters to all.

Highly doubtful. They are filling their restaurants and making lots of money, I don't think they are going to change this anytime soon.

Cass
05-17-2007, 07:50 PM
I actually felt the selection, quality and service was better this past December then years ago before the dining plan.

eemmie1
05-17-2007, 07:55 PM
If everyone was upset that they had to make ADR's 180 days out the restaurants would be empty.:confused3 I do allot of things on vacation that I would not normally do and eating at more expensive restaurants is one of them. Such a shame that people are judged on their social class by what resort they stay at. :confused:

marivaid
05-17-2007, 08:03 PM
Such a shame that people are judged on their social class by what resort they stay at. :confused:

I actually found that part of his rant hilarious. "DDP style of hotel" LMAO. Somebody should check the Trip Report forum and get a clue... there are quite a few families who stay weeks at Deluxe hotels with the DDP.

NEVERENOUGHWDW
05-17-2007, 08:06 PM
And I think your views represent the great majority.

As far as I am concerned, the "elite" who tend to look down upon people staying at value resorts or those who sign up for the DDP, should take their vacation dollars elsewhere. Go elsewhere and spend your money at some exclusive resort in the Caribbean where you can be with people of your perceived wealth and stature and leave WDW to the regular folks.

That is never going to happen.....we will continue to be there 3-4 times a year.

apostolic4life
05-17-2007, 09:30 PM
I actually found that part of his rant hilarious. "DDP style of hotel" LMAO. Somebody should check the Trip Report forum and get a clue... there are quite a few families who stay weeks at Deluxe hotels with the DDP.

You are correct, many people stay in Deluxe and use the DDP.
We have stayed at every catagory of WDW Resort and we always use the DDP..... so, does that mean we are rich snobs slumming at value resorts or are we hillbillies from WV trying to live above our means when we stay at a deluxe resort???? :confused3 Wow, I am having a real identity crisis now!!!:rotfl:
I am a man who works hard to allow my family to vacation at one of the happiest places on Earth; why should anyone care what kind of resort we stay in?? Yes, we could stay at Deluxe every visit if we wanted, but why limit myself to a single type of WDW experience when there are so many ways to enjoy the magic!


:thumbsup2

apostolic4life
05-17-2007, 09:41 PM
That is never going to happen.....we will continue to be there 3-4 times a year.

I am curious, do you reside in close proximity to WDW?? Many folks who live within an hour or two of WDW seem to have this overwhelming sense of disgust focused towards the DDP. Just curious.

By the way, I think it is awesome you can go to WDW 3-4 times a year ( I wish I could get away from work that often), but does that make those who can't any less worthy of enjoying the magic???

:thumbsup2

NEVERENOUGHWDW
05-17-2007, 09:47 PM
I am curious, do you reside in close proximity to WDW?? Many folks who live within an hour or two of WDW seem to have this overwhelming sense of disgust focused towards the DDP. Just curious.

By the way, I think it is awesome you can go to WDW 3-4 times a year, but does than make those who can't any less worthy of enjoting the magic???

:thumbsup2

We live hours away by plane.
This has nothing to do with worthy....it started with a conversation about the DDP. Once again people take small sections out of posts and everything goes down hill from there:sad2:
But you are right many people that live very close are more disgusted then we are.

Tinkerbell24
05-17-2007, 09:50 PM
What is it that you consider a "DDP style of hotel"

NEVERENOUGHWDW
05-17-2007, 09:54 PM
What is it that you consider a "DDP style of hotel"
If you read all the posts perhaps you will notice that isn't what was said:sad2:

Laren
05-17-2007, 09:55 PM
What shocks me is the overwhelming sense of entitlement that is going around. I'm not pointing at anyone in particular just noticing a trend- and not just in WDW it's everywhere! It's the people at Target who are so sure that their time is more important than mine that they try to mow me over with their cart to get the disabled woman (me) out of the way of their Very Important Day.

It's the people who. . .oh nevermind. The point is made.

Everyone has an equal right to reservations at a Disney restaurant. Just like people have a right to tickets to a big game, broadway show, or anything else. Thing is if you want them you have to play by the rules.

So the rules Disney dictates say that you have to book ADRs in advance and then you get to eat where you want. You need to plan. They can not run their business on the flighty whims of people who may or may not show up. They plan staff levels for their restaurants, everything, based on crowds. Every business is that way!

Bottom line: Either go with the changes (we decided to 'join em' and booked ressies even though we'd have rather have 'winged it' on this trip, oh well) or you can eat counter service.

No one is making anyone eat anywhere.

What bothers me is the idea of people booking multiple ressies for the same day- that is what is not cool because it messes up the system for everyone else. But again, entitlement is the issue there.

Can't people just learn to share???! There are only so many tables in WDW to go around. Don't be a ressie hog LOL. But don't expect to just sweep in and get a table the same day anymore. It just doesn't happen. This is the most popular resort on the planet. Unless you're really famous and they cater to you special, you're gonna have to share TS with the peasants, like me *lol*

marivaid
05-17-2007, 10:05 PM
Once again people take small sections out of posts and everything goes down hill from there:sad2:

Well you gave us quite a bit of ammo. You're the only one on this thread who constantly uses pejorative phrases to describe others. "those people", "DDP style of hotels" , "CS people". What do you expect, a group hug ???

Tinkerbell24
05-17-2007, 10:05 PM
If you read all the posts perhaps you will notice that isn't what was said:sad2:

I have read all of the posts and I understand that you were not saying anyone was less worthy, so no need for :sad2: With a post where there is an ongoing conversation, I will read the entire thing so I know what is going on just curious as to what you actually meant.

NEVERENOUGHWDW
05-17-2007, 10:12 PM
Well you gave us quite a bit of ammo. You're the only one on this thread who constantly uses pejorative phrases to describe others. "those people", "DDP style of hotels" , "CS people". What do you expect, a group hug ???
Not in the least...but it's best if one reads the entire post before jumping on the train.
Not sure what you call people that eat at CS, if you have a suggestion please pass it on.

marivaid
05-17-2007, 10:18 PM
Not in the least...but it's best if one reads the entire post before jumping on the train.

Oh I've read your posts, although I wish I hadn't. Frankly, they make me sick.

Not sure what you call people that eat at CS, if you have a suggestion please pass it on.

I'd call them Walt Disney World guests.
But then again I don't judge people based on where they decide to spend their money. Crazy, I know!!!

Laren
05-17-2007, 10:18 PM
Well, I personally call them the same thing I call people who eat table service every meal. . .Guests at Walt Disney World. Of which I am happy to be one whether I am eating fries at Cosmic Rays or Surf and Turf at Narcoossee's. Both of which I have done- in fact on the same day- in the past :) LOL

What, though, in all seriousness, is 'wrong' about the idea of a family who perhaps couldn't afford a fine restaurant like Cali Grill or Narcoossees if not for the DDP dining there? What if it's a once in a lifetime experience for them- what if it is something that they treasure as a memory for years- what if they're say, a make-a-wish family or something else?

What is so wrong with that??? That's what I don't get. I have stayed GF Concierge and I have stayed at the All Stars. I got married in Kissimmee but my wedding guests dined at the GF and at the Castle in the same day. Were my guests less worthy of the table at those places because I didn't get married in the wedding pavillion? See what I mean? What is 'good enough' to deserve a table??? I don't get it.

I have now gone four years (a record!) without a trip to WDW. So if my ADR takes up a dinner slot from somebody who might get to go 4 times a year, as I have done in the past, I hope that they won't feel too badly about it. They have three other opportunities to eat at that restaurant this year, and I won't. If I were going 3 times this year and couldn't get a last minute ressie, I wouldn't be surprised if I was trying to book last minute.

But I won't book double ressies, either! I believe in karma and I wouldn't want that one to bite me later LOL.

Sammie
05-17-2007, 10:19 PM
We like the DDP and we stay deluxe or even heaven forbid, at our DVC with a full kitchen we never use. If that makes us lesser in some eyes, I figure that is their problem certainly not mine.

Laren stated it very well, right now DDP is not going anywhere. Deal with it or move on.

As to whether the restaurants are fuller due to DDP or more crowds in general, no one in this discussion knows for sure.

As to double booking, if you don't like that practice, jump in anytime when it is being discussed here and give heck to those that deserve it.

Next trip to WDW, I am getting a T-shirt that says, DDP and Proud of It!

Laren
05-17-2007, 10:19 PM
I'd call them Walt Disney World guests.
But then again I don't judge people based on where they decide to spend their money. Crazy, I know!!!

I was typing while you were posting! LOL I am glad to see that I'm not the only one who calls them that ;)

marivaid
05-17-2007, 10:27 PM
As to double booking, if you don't like that practice, jump in anytime when it is being discussed here and give heck to those that deserve it.[/B] [/SIZE]

Speaking of double boooking, I called to change an ADR earlier. The very nice lady on the phone informed me that they now cancel one of the reservations if you do that, and they also check names,resorts,check-in dates and party size so even if you give a different phone number you may very well get caught. She could have been pulling my leg, but I hope it's true.

EyesandEarsJami
05-17-2007, 10:38 PM
I agree with what never enough has said and believe that he has several valid points.

I have two problems with the DDP personally. The first is that it has really hampered how I personally get to enjoy my vacation. I'm not a real big advance planner and usually go to disney 3-4 times a year as well. (Flights are cheap and/or I can make the quick 12 hour drive from my house.) With usually 3 weeks to 1.5 months advance planning. It's now become extremely hard to drop in and dine in a park at anything other than counter service. This really hurts my family because we're not really into eating fast food, or at least unhealthy fast food. So instead we're pretty much forced to pack in some healthy snacks for our visits.

My second and bigger issue is that my wife and I have noticed a considerable drop in the quality and quantity of menu offerings. It seems that the menus have now been simplied or dumbed down so much that almost every restaurant is the same, only with some very slight variations. What this means is that everyone who is on the DDP thinks that they are eating at a nice higher end restaurant with many options but they are actually just eating the same fare over and over again throughout the parks. With the subtraction of one or two signature items at each place, almost all the restaurants are the same now. And while the meals have been simplied and the quality lowered, the prices have increased and so has the crowd. So people think they are getting this great value when they really aren't. It's a great marketing ploy by disney, but it comes with a heavy expense. And it contributes to the downfall of the quality of disney. People really aren't "saving" as much as they think. And they definitely aren't eating in the same restaurants that they "couldn't afford" before. The names above the door might be the same, but they are definitely different restaurants now.

I see how some people really enjoy it. But personally I wish that it had never been created. Unfortunately I don't see it going away soon.

The funny thing is I enjoy it when we go to all-inclusive resorts in Mexico and Central America. But I go there knowing that they don't have great restaurants at the resorts that have gone down a notch because of the all-inclusive feature. I never had as high of an expectation there as I do (or did have) at disney.

marivaid
05-17-2007, 10:59 PM
It's now become extremely hard to drop in and dine in a park at anything other than counter service.

SAME PROBLEM AT DISNEYLAND WHERE THERE IS NO DDP

I think it's got to be the 4th or 5th time it's been pointed out on this thread. I don't know why it's not registering.

apostolic4life
05-17-2007, 11:18 PM
My second and bigger issue is that my wife and I have noticed a considerable drop in the quality and quantity of menu offerings. It seems that the menus have now been simplied or dumbed down so much that almost every restaurant is the same, only with some very slight variations. What this means is that everyone who is on the DDP thinks that they are eating at a nice higher end restaurant with many options but they are actually just eating the same fare over and over again throughout the parks. With the subtraction of one or two signature items at each place, almost all the restaurants are the same now. And while the meals have been simplied and the quality lowered, the prices have increased and so has the crowd. So people think they are getting this great value when they really aren't. It's a great marketing ploy by disney, but it comes with a heavy expense. And it contributes to the downfall of the quality of disney. People really aren't "saving" as much as they think. And they definitely aren't eating in the same restaurants that they "couldn't afford" before. The names above the door might be the same, but they are definitely different restaurants now.




Again, this train of thought requires us to believe all ills associated with WDW dining are a result of the DDP. I believe the truth of the matter lies in the overall corporate philosophy adopted by Disney. The perceived decline in quality and variety are not a result of the DDP; they are both results of a business model that homoginizes the WDW restaurants and allows the company to reduce the number of ingredients needed, which concentrates buying power and reduces waste. They basically have created a chain of restaurants that have similar menu offerings with the variety coming through cooking methods, seasonings, and recipes. The changes many have mentioned and the offering of the DDP both are a result of a company's decision to maximize profit.

I can't say I would expect anything less from the board of directors if I was a Disney shareholder.

We should not hate the DDP and blame everything on it's existence; the DDP is actually just the result of a choice made by the Disney figure-heads to make more money.


:thumbsup2

TheDisneyGirl02
05-17-2007, 11:28 PM
I guess I never thought about the difference between people who pay OOP for TS or people who are on the DDP. I just assume that everybody who is there is there for a good meal and a good time. The same goes with people at CS meals. I'm looking forward to doing the dining plan this trip. It's never been the case that my family and I can't afford to eat TS everyday, it's just that we have decided not to in the past. I think the DDP is a good deal, but that's just me personally.

IMO, I think it's great that if a family saves money for years to go to WDW and they stay at a value resort, they can have the same opportunities to dine at WDW as the people who may stay at a moderate or deluxe. That family may not have the chance to return to WDW for years but the memories of the kids eating dinner with the characters and snacking on a Mickey Mouse ice cream bar on Main Street will last a lifetime.

I think Walt would be very pleased with the idea since he always intended for the Disney parks to be for all families, regardless of financial status.

:)

EyesandEarsJami
05-17-2007, 11:29 PM
We should not hate the DDP and blame everything on it's existence; the DDP is actually just the result of a choice made by the Disney figure-heads to make more money.


:thumbsup2

I'm not blaming everything on it's existence, only that it has contributed to some of the decline. It's also a smart move to make more money. And as a shareholder you've got to love that. However, that doesn't mean that I have to like it. :) There are many things that disney has done that makes fiscal sense. Unfortunately the fiscal measures taken often mean the disney suffers in guest services or guest experiences in one way or the other.

Again, my post wasn't a bash of the DDP. It was me simply stating that I don't like it personally. And for those reasons I would like to see it gone. But I know that isn't going to happen.

apostolic4life
05-17-2007, 11:39 PM
IMO, I think it's great that if a family saves money for years to go to WDW and they stay at a value resort, they can have the same opportunities to dine at WDW as the people who may stay at a moderate or deluxe. That family may not have the chance to return to WDW for years but the memories of the kids eating dinner with the characters and snacking on a Mickey Mouse ice cream bar on Main Street will last a lifetime.

I think Walt would be very pleased with the idea since he always intended for the Disney parks to be for all families, regardless of financial status.

:)


You have the right attitude. Thanks for the ray of sunshine!!:goodvibes

:thumbsup2

ExPirateShopGirl
05-17-2007, 11:42 PM
lol... thank you for subsidizing my family's vacations! :lmao:


Perfectly said....prices for out of pocket people have gone up so we can help pay for the DDP (not to mention free dining)...fair no but is it filling the restaurants? yes! People hold their breathe for months to get those ADRs in once they hit 180 days...forget about taking a last minute trip and expecting to eat.
We will never do the DDP and as long as it exists service will be poor and food quality will continue to go down the tubes......I hope you wore you hazmat suit after your post...Good Luck!

apostolic4life
05-17-2007, 11:44 PM
I'm not blaming everything on it's existence, only that it has contributed to some of the decline. It's also a smart move to make more money. And as a shareholder you've got to love that. However, that doesn't mean that I have to like it. :) There are many things that disney has done that makes fiscal sense. Unfortunately the fiscal measures taken often mean the disney suffers in guest services or guest experiences in one way or the other.

Again, my post wasn't a bash of the DDP. It was me simply stating that I don't like it personally. And for those reasons I would like to see it gone. But I know that isn't going to happen.

I did not mean to imply you were blaming everything on the DDP.......sorry, I was just making a general statement about the overall theme of the whole thread. Again, sorry to seemingly point a finger in your direction.


:thumbsup2

Amy&Dan
05-17-2007, 11:51 PM
SAME PROBLEM AT DISNEYLAND WHERE THERE IS NO DDP

I think it's got to be the 4th or 5th time it's been pointed out on this thread. I don't know why it's not registering.

Yep I was one of the ones who pointed that out way back on page 2 I think. I just called this night to make a ps at Disneyland (they still call them ps') and could not get what I wanted. Four weeks out at Disneyland which is nowhere near the dining experience that WDW is. I used to make them a day or two before or even the day of. Just like apparently a lot of you used to do at WDW. And the onsite hotels are completely sold out and have been for weeks. This at Disneyland where I used to make my DLH reservations sometimes less than one week before and get a darn good rate to boot. Its called marketing a product, and Disney has done a great job. Tourism is up all over the world, the Disney one and the planet one.

Mkrop
05-18-2007, 07:28 AM
I guess I dont understand why some of us cant have dislikes about the DDP and be not criticized for it. I think it is a good idea of some fronts but I think it hinders for some. We used it will probably use it again but I do see flaws with it. Like I said before with kids I find it very hard to plan that way, I do plan but I feel with kids I need flexiblity.

I mean we alwasy get the park hoppers becuase if the park we choose in the morning gets too crowded we may leave and go somewhere else but soemtimes if the flow of the day is working for us and the kids we stay put. Well if I have a ADR at that first park, now I need to break our momentum and head back to that park for my ADR. That is not fun or magicial to me

I think there are certainly pros and a cons about it.

And if any of the powers that be do read these things maybe they will see that some are dissatisfied with how SOME of the DDP is run. I mean maybe there does need to be a balance between walkins and ADRs.

And we are one of those families that satyed deluxe but use the DDP, it helped us save money so we could stay in a Deluxe. So it is all good.

Disney8704
05-18-2007, 08:19 AM
What I dont like is people judging people. If someone is staying at a value resort, it doesnt mean they are poor. If someone is staying at a deluxe, doesnt mean they are rich. I have stayed both value and deluxe and NEVER have been on the DDP. I've stayed at GF twice, both times, views of the castle. Easily spent over $3000 alone on the room. Does that mean Im rich? NO. It's called SAVING. DH and I are staying at AKL and are not on the DDP and we are gonna be eating most days 2 TS - breakfast and dinner and 1 CS for lunch. Most of the breakfasts are gonna cost us about $40 - $50 (buffets), while all our dinners are no less then $50, and even have dinners going up to almost $100 (CRT). Once again, you might read that and say well, your rich you can afford that. Nope sorry, once again, its called saving. You know the expression, never judge a book by its cover. Never judge a person where they are staying or dinning. As for making multiple ADRs. If thats what I wanna do, I will do it. I wont make 2 ADRs for the same time frame for 1 day, but unlike a lot of others, I dont get to go often, for 2 reasons. Money and DH being in the military.

gina2000
05-18-2007, 09:03 AM
I'm always baffled when people say that the DDP hasn't contributed to the change/decline (you pick the verb) in menus. It's virtually impossible for a restaurant to produce an innovative, creative meal without free reign in the kitchen. That translates into no price controls. Yes, WDW may be on a streamlining/cost control kick, but offering the DDP is part of that package. They can afford to offer the DDP because they have streamlined menu offerings. They can afford to offer the DDP because they have reduced portion sizes and reduced expensive/exotic (you pick the adjective) ingredients. The streamlining goes hand in hand with the DDP. It may not be the only cause for the change but the DDP goes hand in hand with the causes.

Let's face it, if the OOP patron wasn't willing to pay WDW restaurant prices BEFORE the advent of the DDP, they certainly aren't now. Portions have been streamlined, food has become less signature to the restaurant's theme and menus have been dumbed down in terms of quality/ingredients. It's the DDP patron by and large filling the restaurants. That's a good thing for WDW. But if the DDP changes enough to discourage the patrons, the restaurants will be half empty again with higher prices and lower quality. And I do believe they will rachet up the prices one way or another just as they have rachetted down the cost in order to make the DDP profitable.

Tinkerbell24
05-18-2007, 09:44 AM
I guess I dont understand why some of us cant have dislikes about the DDP and be not criticized for it. I think it is a good idea of some fronts but I think it hinders for some. We used it will probably use it again but I do see flaws with it. Like I said before with kids I find it very hard to plan that way, I do plan but I feel with kids I need flexiblity.

I mean we alwasy get the park hoppers becuase if the park we choose in the morning gets too crowded we may leave and go somewhere else but soemtimes if the flow of the day is working for us and the kids we stay put. Well if I have a ADR at that first park, now I need to break our momentum and head back to that park for my ADR. That is not fun or magicial to me

I think there are certainly pros and a cons about it.

And if any of the powers that be do read these things maybe they will see that some are dissatisfied with how SOME of the DDP is run. I mean maybe there does need to be a balance between walkins and ADRs.

And we are one of those families that satyed deluxe but use the DDP, it helped us save money so we could stay in a Deluxe. So it is all good.

I don't think people are saying that you are not entitled to your dislikes, because as you said, there are pros and cons. IMO, the reason people are getting angry because some people are putting down those that get the DDP and labeling them (who knows as what, but not good) and blaming those people. I think people need to realize that it is a way that families can afford a vacation and to dine...regardless!

Mkrop
05-18-2007, 10:02 AM
I don't think people are saying that you are not entitled to your dislikes, because as you said, there are pros and cons. IMO, the reason people are getting angry because some people are putting down those that get the DDP and labeling them (who knows as what, but not good) and blaming those people. I think people need to realize that it is a way that families can afford a vacation and to dine...regardless!

I agree but I guess I did not get that when I read all the posts here. I did not even get the attack on the one poster but if she/he said something that was offensive I guess it went over my head.

I was addressing the general gist of the thread that if you are not a planner and heaven forbid that you arent then it is your fault if you are SOL on dining.

I am a planner and I plan most of my trip but I dont think that me or anyone else who is uninformed (like my freind going for a day trip) should be shut out entirely. They should be able to experience the magic as well.

I mean some like to do the parks commando and some take it slower and it is all good for them, my issue is that I think the DDP has allowed some people opporutnities that they may have not had before and that is wonderful but I think it has shut out others that either dont want to or cant plan every meal on every day. I wish there was more balance. I mean we cant plan our trips very far in advance because of DH's work so we are always planned for at the most 2 months ahead, so we are suddenly at a disadvantage dining wise.

I used the DDP, will probably use it again, and I will work with how my family likes to vacation to make it work for us. I just see a lot of flaws that could be remedied!

KikiFan
05-18-2007, 11:10 AM
The DDP has it's pro's and con's. I prefer to be more spontaneous when it comes to vacation. But I'm willing to sacrifice that for the convenience of having all my meals paid for in advance.

What I really wish is that Disney would come up some sort of a tiered system on the DDP. Maybe create a catagory for people that only want to eat at CS with perhaps a few TS meals. That way people that wanted to be spontaneous but still have a budget would have an option. And it might ease up the overcrowding at TS.

Marion
05-18-2007, 11:18 AM
I'll admit I just scanned a lot of this debate and realize that it's destined to become just as hot a topic as pool hopping and resort mugs! I'm going to wade in with my .02 anyway :rolleyes1 I think what is irritating me the MOST is this attitude amongst some fellow guests that the DDP is some sort of Disney World charity... or soup kitchen. Comments about paying oop vs being on the dining plan. What IS that? I've booked my package, 8 months in advance, complete with DDP. Guess what? I'm now oop $532 US for my meals. The main difference being I've paid my money... out of my pocket btw... BEFORE our holiday instead of having to bother our silly little heads with carrying cc's/cash/travellers cheques into the parks with us. This is a typical resort sort of thing. When I go on a cruise ship, I have paid for everything ahead of time. If I book an all inclusive resort in Cuba or Mexico, I've paid for everything (inc all meals) in advance. DDP... same thing!

I have to admit, the notion of planning my meals 6 months in advance did seem a little weird. Especially for someone who has never laid eyes on DW since 1981. I got over it and in the end had a wonderful time planning (rather loosely mind you, but which parks, what day etc). I made my adrs at 5 months and got everything I asked for, even times. Perhaps not being used to any other way of visiting DW has made this easier for me than some of you frequent guests.

At any rate, one expects to have to make reservations for a busy restaurant. You don't expect to just show up at the front desk of a resort, bags in hand and ask if they have a room at the inn for you. From all of my extensive reading, it seems DW really has no slow times anymore, so it would follow that the parks have more people in them and those people are all going to want to eat and, voila, the restaurants book up solid. This doesn't neccessarily mean it's the fault of the DDP.

For us personally the DDP will be wonderful. No stress, we know where we'll be eating, we don't have to carry cash or cc. I have no intention of changing our eating habits so after playing with the menus and doing the math we'll be pretty much at the break even point... no 40% savings for us! :rotfl2: But that's not the point... the point is the convenience.

And for all you guests who are now making me feel like a second class citizen for using the DDP, quit raining on my magic darnit!! Have a lovely day :hippie:

apostolic4life
05-18-2007, 11:30 AM
And I do believe they will rachet up the prices one way or another just as they have rachetted down the cost in order to make the DDP profitable.

You make many good points, but I do not think the quality and variety changes were a result of the DDP. I believe the DDP was part of an overall plan on the part or Disney to increase the traffic in the largely under-utilized table service restaurants in WDW. The DDP was the catalyst chosen by Disney to increase the guest attendance at WDW TS restaurants; the homoginization of the of the menus and loss of variety were (IMHO) planned prior to the institution of the DDP to maximize the profit. I bet the decline would have taken place even if the DDP was not instituted. In theory, they could have dramatically cut rack rates for resort stays to accomplish the increased traffic, but it was more appealing to market a dining plan because more people would percieve "value" in getting something extra (food) at reduced rates. As I said, I believe the changes were not a result of the DDP but rather the DDP facilitated the increased traffic so they could institute an already planned homoginization of the dining venues.

Of course, it is only speculation based on my experience in the food industry and I have no documentaion from offical sources stating the plan I have suggested. Just my humble thoughts on the matter.


:thumbsup2

apostolic4life
05-18-2007, 11:49 AM
...I have been very pleased with the food at WDW both before and after the DDP. As for variety, I think it is becoming less pronounced from venue to venue. You have a filet mignon at almost every restaurant and they are only different because of the sauces used to plate them. Overall, even though variety is not as grand, the food quality is still better than everyday big box chains.


:thumbsup2

gina2000
05-18-2007, 12:06 PM
...I have been very pleased with the food at WDW both before and after the DDP. As for variety, I think it is becoming less pronounced from venue to venue. You have a filet mignon at almost every restaurant and they are only different because of the sauces used to plate them. Overall, even though variety is not as grand, the food quality is still better than everyday big box chains.


:thumbsup2

Two things......I do agree with you that the DDP didn't cause the dumbing down of the restaurant menu....I do believe it was a hand-in-hand effort. I suspect the problem was tackled by WDW execs trying to A) cut cost and B) get many more people into the restaurants. B could only occur if A happened. And both would result in more people walking through WDW restaurant doors. They could not accomplish that through slashing rack rates at WDW resorts. This promo ties dining to resort occupancy so it's good points are two fold....getting the patron to stay onsite and getting the patron to eat at TS restaurants. Discounts on hotel rooms only accomplish half of that goal.

And while I do think that WDW restaurants are on par with and slightly above big box restaurant chain food (love that term!), the price OOP is ridiculous as compared to a restaurant chain even adding the so-called 20% premium for location, location, location. The pricing is much more on par with DDP even without the tip (see, I'm giving you 18%).

But, I think the bottom line is if it works for you, use it. If it doesn't, find something that does. I think those of us who have been to WDW for years and have used TS restaurants see a huge difference. We don't matter right now. So be it.

marivaid
05-18-2007, 12:20 PM
Is the DDP perfect HECK NO. But IMO it's a symptom not a cause. If you want to blame someone for the decline in quality/quantity, blame the guy who made the decision to buy cheaper food and serve smaller portions.

Disney is not losing $$ with the DDP, it's making a killing. In the end the money you spend at Disney, whether you spend it on resorts, restaurants or shops, goes into the same pocket.
More people stay on site, pay rack rate for resorts, eat on site instead of going to chain restaurants outside of the World.

Moreover Disney gets that money months in advance. They don't have to worry about the guest changing their minds at the last minute because the guests are now "stuck" on property.Disney is now guaranteed a minimum of $40 per day for each guest on the DDP.

Add to that the fact that many will choose to do an extra meal or two OOP because they feel they're getting such a good deal with the plan, or they don't want to waste credits on a character breakfast.
You think you're "saving" more because you'll use the TS credits on a more expensive meal, but the truth is you're not saving at all - you're spending more money on top of what you've already paid!

apostolic4life
05-18-2007, 12:25 PM
Two things......I do agree with you that the DDP didn't cause the dumbing down of the restaurant menu....I do believe it was a hand-in-hand effort. I suspect the problem was tackled by WDW execs trying to A) cut cost and B) get many more people into the restaurants. B could only occur if A happened. And both would result in more people walking through WDW restaurant doors. They could not accomplish that through slashing rack rates at WDW resorts. This promo ties dining to resort occupancy so it's good points are two fold....getting the patron to stay onsite and getting the patron to eat at TS restaurants. Discounts on hotel rooms only accomplish half of that goal.

I think the foot traffic in the resorts would increase the number of guests using the on-site dining venues, but they would have had to attach some additional incentive to get the traffic in restaurants up to DDP levels. I think we are in good agreement over this though!!:hug:

And while I do think that WDW restaurants are on par with and slightly above big box restaurant chain food (love that term!), the price OOP is ridiculous as compared to a restaurant chain even adding the so-called 20% premium for location, location, location. The pricing is much more on par with DDP even without the tip (see, I'm giving you 18%).

As for pricing, it can be very expensive and the value may not be there if you buy certain items OOP. In the venue I work (a symphony hall & museum) we jack prices up dramatically on many things due to our "captive" patrons. A 20oz. fountain drink is $2.00 where the same drink down the street at a fast food joint is only $1.19. We are way more than 20% over the acceptable price of that beverage, but because you cannot bring in food & beverage from outside you are stuck with those prices (fair or not) just like at WDW.

But, I think the bottom line is if it works for you, use it. If it doesn't, find something that does. I think those of us who have been to WDW for years and have used TS restaurants see a huge difference. We don't matter right now. So be it.

I agree with you about the use of DDP and how it fits your situation. BTW, you matter.......just the simple fact of economics though: the minority never drives the market trends!! :sad1:


:thumbsup2

CR88
05-18-2007, 12:27 PM
3. The fact that ordinary people are able to afford to eat at sit down establishments within WDW really seems to bother you.

I guess in a way it does.....the huge impact DDP has made on Disney restaurants IMO is terrible in all the ways I have already mentioned.

From reading other posts I see I'm not the only one and I believe Disney will one day take this into consideration and make some changes that caters to all.

With all due respect, I believe Disney has $9,925,000,000 reasons to disagree. Revenue from Parks and Resorts is up 10%. Operating Income is up 30%, and occupancy and per room spending is up as well. In fact here is a quote from the 2006 Disney Annual Report.

"Revenues at Parks and Resorts increased 10%, or $902 million,
to $9.9 billion due to increases of $647 million at our domestic resorts and a
net increase of $255 million at our international resorts.
Domestic Parks and Resorts: At our domestic parks and resorts, increased
revenues were due to increased guest spending, theme park attendance,
and hotel occupancy, as well as higher sales at Disney Vacation Club."

The plan is not perfect by any means as is evident with people being turned away from empty restaurants, but for the most part it works as intended. I would have gladly paid for our meals if there were no DDP, we really enjoyed all of our meals. As far as Disney is concerned, the bottom line will far outweigh the posts on this list or any other list for that matter. And what is wrong with giving people who wouldn’t normally get a chance to enjoy a TS meal at WDW the opportunity to experience it? I believe there are a number of posters on DIS who have complained that quality is being negatively affected, but for the fairly new people like my wife and I, we think it is great. When things affect the bottom line you'll see changes. We started by staying at a moderate, tried a value, now we are DVC members. Walt’s big plan worked on us. :)

apostolic4life
05-18-2007, 12:33 PM
Moreover Disney gets that money months in advance. They don't have to worry about the guest changing their minds at the last minute because the guests are now "stuck" on property.Disney is now guaranteed a minimum of $40 per day for each guest on the DDP.

Add to that the fact that many will choose to do an extra meal or two OOP because they feel they're getting such a good deal with the plan, or they don't want to waste credits on a character breakfast.
You think you're "saving" more because you'll use the TS credits on a more expensive meal, but the truth is you're not saving at all - you're spending more money on top of what you've already paid!


We often buy additional meals at locations not covered by DDP. DW and I always enjoy afternoon tea in the Gardenview Tea Room when at WDW, or the occasional trip to a Signature Restaurant. On our next trip we are going to V&A, so they will be getting more money from us above our DDP. Many would call spending money OOP when on DDP crazy, but it allows us to enjoy the finer aspects of WDW dining not included on the plan.

JWG
05-18-2007, 12:45 PM
DDP is nothing more than a response to "all inclusive" vacation options.

Disney needed to boost TS dining (I have to admit, in my 6 visits to Disney in the last 13 years I have eaten TS a total of 4 times) and offer an option to people who want the all inclusive package.

This clearly accomplished both. We recently did the 7 day Disney Cruise followed by 1 day at the parks. Two things: getting TS last minute was not possible (in late September none the less) and we went into shell shock at CS in Epcot. After getting 3-5 course meals "free" on the cruise for 7 days we were beat by paying nearly $20 for a couple of burgers, fries and pop.

We are not doing DDP in July, but will likely add $$$ to see what, if any, it would have cost/saved us.

I think DDP is a great option for people, I wouldn't expect there not to be an all inclusive option in this day and age.

I do agree, last minute dining is no longer an option and that does stink. I'd prefer not make my reservations months in advance as I like to eat around our park schedule and based on what we're doing that day.

mamaprincess
05-18-2007, 12:52 PM
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d94/tpozey/deadhorse.gif

Hooray!!!:cheer2: :lmao:

marivaid
05-18-2007, 12:53 PM
We often buy additional meals at locations not covered by DDP. DW and I always enjoy afternoon tea in the Gardenview Tea Room when at WDW, or the occasional trip to a Signature Restaurant. On our next trip we are going to V&A, so they will be getting more money from us above our DDP. Many would call spending money OOP when on DDP crazy, but it allows us to enjoy the finer aspects of WDW dining not included on the plan.

Yes we do it too. Not for fine dining though, we are character meal junkies.
I have 3 OOP meals planned while we're on the plan, so here's $150 more for Disney on top of the $311 we're already paying (2 adults, 4 days of DDP).

ETA : Oh great, now I want to add the afternoon tea to our list !!!

kaytieeldr
05-18-2007, 01:33 PM
As for the DDP folks making those ADR's in advance and ruining the spontanaeity of the non DDPlanners, that is sad but to be expected. The DDP folks have paid for their meals before they ever arrived to WDW (unless they are DVC). You prepay your resort much of the time, wouldn't it be sort of dumb to do that but not make a resort reservation, and then randomly go from resort to resort hoping to find a room? Um, well, I never thought about it before… but if I could make a reservation at Pop Century and end up getting “stuck” with finally finding a room at Animal Kingdom Lodge – I’m all for it! Good marketing suggestion! :teeth:

Maybe the servers are getting fed up with the dining plan. People use it to their full advantage. While some may not get the appitizer, entree and desert, some people probably do. Theres probably some people who use the entire thing per person. Each person gets an appitizer, entree and desert. The DDP is making the servers work harder, and they are probably getting burnt out. Conversely, at least at the Disney-owned restaurants, the server’s tip increases based on the total cost of the Guests’ meal. Somebody above mentioned the $18 pasta dish. This, combined with a soft drink, ordered by somebody on or off the Disney Dining Plan would give the server a tip of $3.60 via the DDP, or between $3.00 and $4.00 OOP. That same diner uses the DDP to pay for their $9.99 appetizer, their $25.49 steak, their $3.50 smoothie, and their $5.99 dessert provides the server with a tip of $8.09.

We dont know how it is behind the scenes when it comes to paying either. They might have to do more work when paying with the DDP. They might have to stand there and try to figure out what the 18% tip is, or who knows what else. Okay, um, you know they have these new-fangled machinery thingies behind the scenes called computerized cash registers, right? That can be programmed to, among other things, calculate 18% or any other percent of anything? NOT that this is even an issue, since that calculation appears nowhere on the Guest’s check or receipt – it’s calculated in/by Accounting, and paid to the CM by Human Resources.

If someone doesnt get a desert or whatever, maybe the server has to pay Disney for that loss. You never know. Yeah, we do know. Servers pay taxes on their ACTUAL CHECKS, not on what Disney assumes the Guest might order.

I'm not talking about full restaurants at a peak time, that's obvious to me. I'm talking about walking up to a restaurant and seeing that it's half (or partially) empty and having them tell you they are booked. I just see it as bad for business. It’s very possible, especially early or late, that the restaurant isn’t staffed to handle a full seating.

You are correct. They are still "priority seating" just called ADR's. Um, well, actually I asked about this when I started calling for my upcoming trip. They are once again called reservations, but they are handled as PS/ADR/call-ahead-seating (which is really what they are – we just need to call much further ahead than for Outback or the 99 :) )

I'm always baffled when people say that the DDP hasn't contributed to the change/decline (you pick the verb) in menus. It's virtually impossible for a restaurant to produce an innovative, creative meal without free reign in the kitchen. That translates into no price controls. I didn’t know there were any restaurants anywhere with no price controls ;)

PamNC
05-18-2007, 02:06 PM
We did it once, back in November and won't do it again. The main reason we didn't like it is because it's just too much darn food!!!! My DH & I love to eat, don't get me wrong, but I can't handle an appetizer, entree and dessert each meal. Or most meals. I hate the idea of wasting food. Plus, I had the attitude, "well, it's included...I should eat it." Then, I overeat and feel like crap-o-la.

The other reason I don't like it is because we prefer to dine at mostly TS meals. The DDP forced us to eat too much CS. We love sit down breakfasts, but as you know it's not wise to use your TS for breakfast. Not a good way to get your money's worth.

I also think that the DDP is "dumbing" down the menus. And, making it harder to get ressies. I could be wrong and I don't have proof, but that's my perception.

To each his own but the DDP isn't for me.

PamNC

Laren
05-18-2007, 11:21 PM
Well there isn't much I could add at this point that Marivaid and Apostolic4life haven't already said *lol* :thumbsup2 but I just wanted to address the poster who said, and please forgive me I didn't remember your screen, it' sbeen a long day LOL

As for making multiple ADRs. If thats what I wanna do, I will do it. I wont make 2 ADRs for the same time frame for 1 day, but unlike a lot of others, I dont get to go often, for 2 reasons. Money and DH being in the military.


No one takes any issue with booking multiple ADRs, I don't believe, UNLESS you're booking two for the same time frame on the same day. That was what I meant in my posts, anyway. Certainly everybody on the DDP HAS to book multiple ADRs during their trip or we wouldn't get to eat TS either! I hope that you didn't feel anyone was complaining about that; my only issue was with people booking, say, two dinners for the same day in different spots with different phone numbers to try to get around Disney's system just so they could make up their mind at the last minute and stiff one of the restaurants, thus preventing another family from dining there that night.

Hope that I'm speaking my point clearly. it's the doublebooked thingie that upset me.

People certainly can have an opinion on the DDP and not get flamed; I don't even really know what my official opinion is cause we're using it the first time this fall I'll let ya'll know when we get home *LOL* But it's the attitude of people who are griping that people who used to 'only' eat CS are now eating TS that got me going, cause it had a negative connotation to it.

Laren

NEVERENOUGHWDW
05-18-2007, 11:51 PM
With all due respect, I believe Disney has $9,925,000,000 reasons to disagree. Revenue from Parks and Resorts is up 10%. Operating Income is up 30%, and occupancy and per room spending is up as well. In fact here is a quote from the 2006 Disney Annual Report.

"Revenues at Parks and Resorts increased 10%, or $902 million,
to $9.9 billion due to increases of $647 million at our domestic resorts and a
net increase of $255 million at our international resorts.
Domestic Parks and Resorts: At our domestic parks and resorts, increased
revenues were due to increased guest spending, theme park attendance,
and hotel occupancy, as well as higher sales at Disney Vacation Club."

The plan is not perfect by any means as is evident with people being turned away from empty restaurants, but for the most part it works as intended. I would have gladly paid for our meals if there were no DDP, we really enjoyed all of our meals. As far as Disney is concerned, the bottom line will far outweigh the posts on this list or any other list for that matter. And what is wrong with giving people who wouldn’t normally get a chance to enjoy a TS meal at WDW the opportunity to experience it? I believe there are a number of posters on DIS who have complained that quality is being negatively affected, but for the fairly new people like my wife and I, we think it is great. When things affect the bottom line you'll see changes. We started by staying at a moderate, tried a value, now we are DVC members. Walt’s big plan worked on us. :)
We gratefully know what is in the report and happy about earnings....
Most agree that if you are new to Disney you wouldn't recognize the difference in TS dining. Also, I think where you are from strongly effects what you consider good, excellent food (no that isn't a knock all looking to flame just a fact that some/many parts of the country do not have fine, high quality, diversified dining readily available).

7/24soccer
05-19-2007, 12:33 AM
We gratefully know what is in the report and happy about earnings....
Most agree that if you are new to Disney you wouldn't recognize the difference in TS dining. Also, I think where you are from strongly effects what you consider good, excellent food (no that isn't a knock all looking to flame just a fact that some/many parts of the country do not have fine, high quality, diversified dining readily available).

Since I agree that eating an appetizer, entree, dessert at one sitting is a lot - does anybody spilt that with say, a spouse, thus only using 1 TS credit one evening and then using 2 the nest evening for a siganature TS meal?

photo_chick
05-19-2007, 01:07 AM
Such an interesting topic. We are going and planning on DDP. FOr us when i totalled what we would spend on the character meals we wanted teh DDP was about the same price and would end up covering most all our other meals. I could not argue with that, and I like knowing it will be paid for ahead of time and I don't have to wory abou tit.

Now on not getting a table... There are a few resteraunts in my area that require reservations months ahead of time to get in. This is not a new thing in the world of dining out.

Tinkerbell24
05-19-2007, 09:14 AM
Since I agree that eating an appetizer, entree, dessert at one sitting is a lot - does anybody spilt that with say, a spouse, thus only using 1 TS credit one evening and then using 2 the nest evening for a siganature TS meal?

We have done this before when we have gone somewhere where there is way too much food for us to eat. We do it every once in a while, depending on the place and how hungry we are.

Amy&Dan
05-19-2007, 10:42 AM
Also, I think where you are from strongly effects what you consider good, excellent food (no that isn't a knock all looking to flame just a fact that some/many parts of the country do not have fine, high quality, diversified dining readily available).

And you know this how? So in addition to your vastly superior knowledge of all things regarding Disney dining, you also know that many of us live in parts of the country where fine dining is unavailable. Do you travel around the U.S. doing a study of each region, state etc., making notes of how many five star restaurants are available per capita of that region?

You say this isn't a flame towards others and you are right. Its really just a statement of how you feel about yourself and the region you live in. I think I really get the whole picture of that now after reading your latest statement.

NEVERENOUGHWDW
05-19-2007, 01:51 PM
And you know this how? So in addition to your vastly superior knowledge of all things regarding Disney dining, you also know that many of us live in parts of the country where fine dining is unavailable. Do you travel around the U.S. doing a study of each region, state etc., making notes of how many five star restaurants are available per capita of that region?

You say this isn't a flame towards others and you are right. Its really just a statement of how you feel about yourself and the region you live in. I think I really get the whole picture of that now after reading your latest statement.
We travel alot and sometimes to places that are not in a metro area or an upcoming area and yes there is vastly different menus/tastes all over the country all over the world if you really want a broad answer.
Yes if we are going to a new area or repeat area where dining has been poor we do some homework prior to the trip via Zagats or Fodors and local publications. We like to know what we are in for.
I do however enjoy your sarcasm.

photo_chick
05-19-2007, 02:06 PM
We travel alot and sometimes to places that are not in a metro area or an upcoming area and yes there is vastly different menus/tastes all over the country all over the world if you really want a broad answer.
Yes if we are going to a new area or repeat area where dining has been poor we do some homework prior to the trip via Zagats or Fodors and local publications. We like to know what we are in for.
I do however enjoy your sarcasm.

I have traveled a lot too. I have found that it is not so much a lack of good places to eat, but a lack of what suits my particualr tastes. I went to a chinese place that everyone was raving about. I did not like it at all and felt it was one of the worst places I had ever eaten.... What is good is all a matter of one's own point of view and personal taste.

CR88
05-19-2007, 02:46 PM
We gratefully know what is in the report and happy about earnings....
Most agree that if you are new to Disney you wouldn't recognize the difference in TS dining. Also, I think where you are from strongly effects what you consider good, excellent food (no that isn't a knock all looking to flame just a fact that some/many parts of the country do not have fine, high quality, diversified dining readily available).

Where I am? Be careful now before you assume. Remember what they say about assuming. ;) Actually, we are about an hour outside of Chicago, and make frequent trips just for dinner, and as you probably know, Chicago is widely known for its quality and diversity of restaurants, which is one of the reasons we go so often. Not sure if it holds up to your side of the country, but it may be close. :rolleyes1 My family is also from Southern Italy and operates a number of authentic Italian Restaurants here in northern Indiana so I may know a little about good Italian food as well. ;) Seriously though, just a little offense taken, but it's all good, I do understand where you are coming from. Look I am not saying that Disney Dining compares to the elite or the best authentic restaurants, but it is above the bar. Ruth's Chris and St. Elmo's both are known for their steaks, but we had a filet and LeCellier that rivaled both. Would we have the same experience every time? I don't know, we have only been there once. The steak we had at Concourse was also just as good. Where they as good as the best steak we have ever eaten, no, but for $38.99 per day, how can you beat it?? We have paid more for a steak alone at more than one restaurant. We also just returned from Rome, and I can honestly say that the food at Alfredo’s, which is widely criticized, was on par with any of the restaurants we tried on Via Veneto or in Piazza Navona. Those areas are also known for their cuisine and both times we dined at Alfredo’s it was just as good, or at least on par. Again, would it be every time, I am not sure, but it was when we were there and that's all we have to go by. So be careful before you assume that the people defending the DDP don’t know good food. I am sure many on this list have tried just as much good food and still have a different opinion. Maybe they have yet to experience that meal that forever taints the Disney Dining experience.

NEVERENOUGHWDW
05-19-2007, 03:31 PM
Where I am? Be careful now before you assume. Remember what they say about assuming. ;) Actually, we are about an hour outside of Chicago, and make frequent trips just for dinner, and as you probably know, Chicago is widely known for its quality and diversity of restaurants, which is one of the reasons we go so often. Not sure if it holds up to your side of the country, but it may be close. :rolleyes1 My family is also from Southern Italy and operates a number of authentic Italian Restaurants here in northern Indiana so I may know a little about good Italian food as well. ;) Seriously though, just a little offense taken, but it's all good, I do understand where you are coming from. Look I am not saying that Disney Dining compares to the elite or the best authentic restaurants, but it is above the bar. Ruth's Chris and St. Elmo's both are known for their steaks, but we had a filet and LeCellier that rivaled both. Would we have the same experience every time? I don't know, we have only been there once. The steak we had at Concourse was also just as good. Where they as good as the best steak we have ever eaten, no, but for $38.99 per day, how can you beat it?? We have paid more for a steak alone at more than one restaurant. We also just returned from Rome, and I can honestly say that the food at Alfredo’s, which is widely criticized, was on par with any of the restaurants we tried on Via Veneto or in Piazza Navona. Those areas are also known for their cuisine and both times we dined at Alfredo’s it was just as good, or at least on par. Again, would it be every time, I am not sure, but it was when we were there and that's all we have to go by. So be careful before you assume that the people defending the DDP don’t know good food. I am sure many on this list have tried just as much good food and still have a different opinion. Maybe they have yet to experience that meal that forever taints the Disney Dining experience. I am assuming nothing just telling of our experiences, that is what we are here for to talk, pass opinions about (or so I thought). I would have to disagree on the comparision between food in Rome & Alfredos's, although we do like Alfredos.

CR88
05-19-2007, 03:57 PM
I am assuming nothing just telling of our experiences, that is what we are here for to talk, pass opinions about (or so I thought). I would have to disagree on the comparision between food in Rome & Alfredos's, although we do like Alfredos.

I am not comparing Alfredo's as a restaurant to the restaurants in Rome by any means, just as you said, only our experiences with both. My wife even commented on how similar the Fettuccini Alfredo and Bolognese sauce was. Given the number of negative comments, I highly doubt that Alfredo's could have consistently matched the experiences we had the past 2 years, or even the experience we had while dining in Rome. I actually warned my wife that, given the reviews I have read on DIS, we may not be so lucky when eat at Alfredo's again. Since they are no more we won't have to worry about it. But, it was just an example that some people’s experiences are different and thus give them a different opinion of Disney Dining. I haven’t dined at WDW enough to make a broad claim or generalization. My humble opinion just comes from the past 2 years of great vacations and good food and that’s all I have to go by, but is also one of many reasons we bought into DVC. :)

Disney8704
05-19-2007, 05:21 PM
Heres an idea. Everyone is sick of having to much food or over flowing TS places. How about Disney stopped doing the DDP and offered some sort of a discount card. Sorta like the DDE card but not the same. Supposdly the DDP is supposed to save you 40%. Well have it to where the discount card saves you 40% either at CS and TS places. This way if people dont wanna eat TS everyday, they dont have to. They wont have to worry about ordering everything that comes with the DDP or worry about if sharing is allowed or whatever. This would cut back on how booked the TS places are and will have a better chance making a last min ADR or have room for walkups. Everyone complains about how its to much food. This would eliminate that, because you wont be stressed to make sure you use all your credits or using the DDP to its full advantage by ordering an appitizer, entree and desert. I read on here all the time people having credits left over when they go home. Guess what? They just lost money for not using those credits. Another idea is let the person who is booking the trip, let them customize the DDP. If they wanna have all CS meals, they should be able to do that. Right now u get 1 CS, 1 TS and 1 snack. Say you dont want snack's included, let them leave that out. The DDP should be and needs to be customized to your liking. If you arent used to ordering appitzers, dont include that in the DDP. If you get to the place and realize you do want an appitizer just pay OOP for it.

Stinky_Pete
05-19-2007, 08:24 PM
Heres an idea. Everyone is sick of having to much food or over flowing TS places. How about Disney stopped doing the DDP and offered some sort of a discount card. Sorta like the DDE card but not the same. Supposdly the DDP is supposed to save you 40%. Well have it to where the discount card saves you 40% either at CS and TS places.

A better idea would be to just have lower prices in general. That way everyone wins.

I'm going to be doing some serious calculations if/when AP discounts for December are announced to determine if I should forgo the AP room discount and get the DDP, or get the DDE card for the discounts, or do something else...it's a pain!

Laren
05-19-2007, 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by 7/24soccer
Since I agree that eating an appetizer, entree, dessert at one sitting is a lot - does anybody spilt that with say, a spouse, thus only using 1 TS credit one evening and then using 2 the nest evening for a siganature TS meal?

I think that would be against the rules and I don't know how a server could allow it without getting in trouble? Like I said this is my first time on the plan and I don't know all the ins and outs yet but this to me seems like it wouldn't be tolerated at a TS restaurant.

Sharing a CS meal, I can see, after you sit down at say, Cosmic Rays with a tray they won't stop you from sharing it. But TS? I don't think they would let you.

We're saving TS credits for 2 signature dining experiences by skipping TS the day we arrive and the day we leave. We'll do CS those days, or if my men (DF and DH) are that set on TS the first day, we'll *gasp* pay for it *lol*

Cracked me up today when I told my DF that he could use his CS credit at the bakery in France at EPCOT he said "Or I could even give them money if I have to, to get what I want!" *LOL*

Laren

Tinkerbell24
05-20-2007, 11:00 AM
I think that would be against the rules and I don't know how a server could allow it without getting in trouble? Like I said this is my first time on the plan and I don't know all the ins and outs yet but this to me seems like it wouldn't be tolerated at a TS restaurant.

Sharing a CS meal, I can see, after you sit down at say, Cosmic Rays with a tray they won't stop you from sharing it. But TS? I don't think they would let you.


Laren

With all of the food that there is, at some places, it may be too much food for one person. For instance, at the ESPN club, there was too much food so we just split an appetizer, entree, and desert and paid for an extra drink. It really isn't that big of a deal, just tell you waiter before hand.

apostolic4life
05-20-2007, 11:12 AM
Heres an idea. Everyone is sick of having to much food or over flowing TS places. How about Disney stopped doing the DDP and offered some sort of a discount card. Sorta like the DDE card but not the same. Supposdly the DDP is supposed to save you 40%. Well have it to where the discount card saves you 40% either at CS and TS places. This way if people dont wanna eat TS everyday, they dont have to. They wont have to worry about ordering everything that comes with the DDP or worry about if sharing is allowed or whatever. This would cut back on how booked the TS places are and will have a better chance making a last min ADR or have room for walkups. Everyone complains about how its to much food. This would eliminate that, because you wont be stressed to make sure you use all your credits or using the DDP to its full advantage by ordering an appitizer, entree and desert. I read on here all the time people having credits left over when they go home. Guess what? They just lost money for not using those credits. Another idea is let the person who is booking the trip, let them customize the DDP. If they wanna have all CS meals, they should be able to do that. Right now u get 1 CS, 1 TS and 1 snack. Say you dont want snack's included, let them leave that out. The DDP should be and needs to be customized to your liking. If you arent used to ordering appitzers, dont include that in the DDP. If you get to the place and realize you do want an appitizer just pay OOP for it.


....or logistical and clerical nightmare? The things you suggest sound wonderful..........except for the fact that millions of people would be attempting to set up these highly complex customized dining plans. Boy, I can see the new threads about DDP already: "Why I hate the DDP....it clogs all the WDW customer service phone lines and I can't get through!!!". I think the key to the DDP is the ease of use (once people get used to what the rules are at least). Just think of the pricing nightmare it would cause too.

The DDP is what it is because it works for the guest and it works for WDW. They may tweak it a little here and there, but they will never give it the type of "customized" overhaul you are suggesting. The idea of a card with a better discount than DDE would be nice, but how would they price it??? I have a feeling it would have a pretty steep price when compared to both the current DDE and DDP; the cost prohibitiveness (made up word) and loss of convenience with this kind of offering would probably not make it as popular like the DDP. This could open up space at restaurants in WDW and I guess that would make some happy!!

:thumbsup2

gokenin
05-20-2007, 11:15 AM
I read these complaints about the DDP thats its dumbing down the menus everytime anyone brings the issue up but I have to ask something. Whats the proof of this were the filet mignon serving sizes larger? was saffron in everything? were black truffles used all the time? were the meals served on china with gold utensils? I dont rememeber the times I went before DDP as the food being sooo much more in volume or such exotic choices:confused3 I could be wrong but all I ask is lets hear examples of how things were soo much better before. The DDP haters rant how its ruining disney dining i challenge them to show me how it was soo much better before. hang on while i get my flame suit on please:surfweb:

apostolic4life
05-20-2007, 11:22 AM
I read these complaints about the DDP thats its dumbing down the menus everytime anyone brings the issue up but I have to ask something. Whats the proof of this were the filet mignon serving sizes larger? was saffron in everything? were black truffles used all the time? were the meals served on china with gold utensils? I dont rememeber the times I went before DDP as the food being sooo much more in volume or such exotic choices:confused3 I could be wrong but all I ask is lets hear examples of how things were soo much better before. The DDP haters rant how its ruining disney dining i challenge them to show me how it was soo much better before. hang on while i get my flame suit on please:surfweb:


Great points!!!! Yea, give us some proof!!!! Give us some specifics!!!!:stir: ;)
:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::r otfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

Seriously, I do like what you have said.....I too have eaten before and after DDP was instituted and the quality seems not to have changed, but I do think menus have become homoginized venue to venue though.

:thumbsup2

Mickeyluver37
05-20-2007, 11:28 AM
We gratefully know what is in the report and happy about earnings....
Most agree that if you are new to Disney you wouldn't recognize the difference in TS dining. Also, I think where you are from strongly effects what you consider good, excellent food (no that isn't a knock all looking to flame just a fact that some/many parts of the country do not have fine, high quality, diversified dining readily available).



Anyone that disagrees with this hasn't lived in Upstate (Near Ft. Drum) NY :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Ok, but seriously, I don't think they even know what a Ruth's Chris is up there. They just got a Target in 2007. When we lived there, an Applebee's was built and I think that was their first big chain restaurant.

Mickeyluver37
05-20-2007, 11:33 AM
I read these complaints about the DDP thats its dumbing down the menus everytime anyone brings the issue up but I have to ask something. Whats the proof of this were the filet mignon serving sizes larger? was saffron in everything? were black truffles used all the time? were the meals served on china with gold utensils? I dont rememeber the times I went before DDP as the food being sooo much more in volume or such exotic choices:confused3 I could be wrong but all I ask is lets hear examples of how things were soo much better before. The DDP haters rant how its ruining disney dining i challenge them to show me how it was soo much better before. hang on while i get my flame suit on please:surfweb:

One example I remember from 2005 is the Cinderella's sliper dessert at the castle. I would see pictures on here of a fancy presentation, and then when we got there, nearly every person in the restaurant ordered that same dessert. The slipper and the mousse were the same, but the platescape wasn't as fancy. I'm sure you can find pictures in the food porn thread that show the difference of that and possibly others. BTW, I'm not a DDP hater- I'm thrilled to be trying it for the first time this year. I see the negatives, but we are saving a tremendous amount on our trip, so no complaints from me. I am amazed/frustrated at how hard ADR's are to get though!

ExPirateShopGirl
05-20-2007, 01:08 PM
One example I remember from 2005 is the Cinderella's sliper dessert at the castle. I would see pictures on here of a fancy presentation, and then when we got there, nearly every person in the restaurant ordered that same dessert. The slipper and the mousse were the same, but the platescape wasn't as fancy. I'm sure you can find pictures in the food porn thread that show the difference of that and possibly others. BTW, I'm not a DDP hater- I'm thrilled to be trying it for the first time this year. I see the negatives, but we are saving a tremendous amount on our trip, so no complaints from me. I am amazed/frustrated at how hard ADR's are to get though!

So... less raspberry sauce on the plate? Fewer curly-qs? Lazy pastry chef that day?

It's important to remember that a lot of fancy dessert pictures posted online were taken when the dessert was special ordered for a birthday, anniversary or other celebration. Not saying this is true with every photo online, just that people take pictures so that other Disers can see what they'll get when they call ahead to reserve or order something for a special meal. I could be wrong, though. There may have been a memo about plate sauce rationing when DDP began...

:)

Tramp&TheLady
05-20-2007, 02:25 PM
OP you must be out of your mind! :lmao:

CR Resort Fan 4 Life
05-20-2007, 03:28 PM
OP you must be out of your mind! :lmao:If the OP feels this way about the DDP, they are allowed the express their feelings. There are no rules on this board that all posts about the DDP have to be 100% positive, because there are others who don't like it for whatever their reasons are.

Mickeyluver37
05-20-2007, 06:09 PM
So... less raspberry sauce on the plate? Fewer curly-qs? Lazy pastry chef that day?

It's important to remember that a lot of fancy dessert pictures posted online were taken when the dessert was special ordered for a birthday, anniversary or other celebration. Not saying this is true with every photo online, just that people take pictures so that other Disers can see what they'll get when they call ahead to reserve or order something for a special meal. I could be wrong, though. There may have been a memo about plate sauce rationing when DDP began...

:)

I don't think it had anything to do with the rationing, moreso the fact that they went from serving a few at dinner to 100+ an hour. It's just not special anymore. You have to dumb it down to get out that many fast enough. I'm sure somebody else can come up with something else that's been "dumbed down."

Do those die hard proponents of the DDP that like to dispute everything really honestly think that no changes have occured? Even the mainstreaming of the menus is a "dumbing down" of sorts. The kids desserts have certainly been decreased!

CR Resort Fan 4 Life
05-20-2007, 06:13 PM
Even though this has not been proven and I am sure some of you will flame me over this, I have felt when having lunch at the table service locations that the kitchen staff are sending the food out way to fast, so this way the servers can turn over more tables at a faster rate. My family and I did not rush to eat when we got our food and we did not order any appetizers, however I thought wow that was way to fast for our food to be ready. In my opinion because of how popular the DDP is and because more people are purchasing it, they need to speed up the service to keep getting guests in and out of the restaurants as fast as they can.

drakethib
05-20-2007, 06:16 PM
I hate the DDP because I eat too much when using it. :)

kaytieeldr
05-20-2007, 06:23 PM
Even though this has not been proven and I am sure some of you will flame me over this, I have felt when having lunch at the table service locations that the kitchen staff are sending the food out way to fast, so this way the servers can turn over more tables at a faster rate. Do you find the same thing at dinner? Isn't it more likely that service is faster at lunch because Guests are anxious to get back to park touring?

francie
05-20-2007, 06:26 PM
hi, has anyone who is opposed to the dining plan written/emailed disney with their thoughts? anyone have the address? thanks

CR Resort Fan 4 Life
05-20-2007, 06:26 PM
Do you find the same thing at dinner? Isn't it more likely that service is faster at lunch because Guests are anxious to get back to park touring?My family and I have never had dinner at any of the theme park restaurants, so I can't answer your question.

I agree that some guests do want to get back tour the parks. I just wish they could not bring out the foods so fast, because I also do like to enjoy a relaxing meal after being in the parks since they opened that morning.

want2bamommy
05-20-2007, 06:28 PM
Anyone that disagrees with this hasn't lived in Upstate (Near Ft. Drum) NY :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Ok, but seriously, I don't think they even know what a Ruth's Chris is up there. They just got a Target in 2007. When we lived there, an Applebee's was built and I think that was their first big chain restaurant.

LOL. I've been at Drum for 6 years and I HEAR YA!!! The Target opening was a big hit as were all of the new restaurants lol!!!

Missie

drakethib
05-20-2007, 06:36 PM
My family and I have never had dinner at any of the theme park restaurants, so I can't answer your question.

I agree that some guests do want to get back tour the parks. I just wish they could not bring out the foods so fast, because I also do like to enjoy a relaxing meal after being in the parks since they opened that morning.


I agree about the relaxing meal but "food for thought"

I like the food coming out fast. I am usually pretty hungry when I order.

However, I am not required to eat it as fast as they bring it out.

No one has ever asked us to leave our table until we were done eating.


:goodvibes

*KeepMovingForward*
05-20-2007, 06:38 PM
We like DDP. It may be too much food, but we certainly don't eat it all! We do like ordering different appetizers and taking a taste. OMG-if we actually finished them off and the entree and dessert, we'd be the next spokespeople for Jenny Craig! The only thing we are not a fan of is that the restaurants are so crowded now and the DDP does not allow you to be spontaneous with your dining plans-even if you are not doing the DDP. If you don't plan it all out, you may be shut out of a decent meal, unless you like counter service all the time. :sad1:

CR Resort Fan 4 Life
05-20-2007, 06:40 PM
I agree about the relaxing meal but "food for thought"

I like the food coming out fast. I am usually pretty hungry when I order.

However, I am not required to eat it as fast as they bring it out.

No one has ever asked us to leave our table until we were done eating.


:goodvibesObviously the Cast Members can't say eat fast so we can clean your table and give to the next set of guests. I also don't mind when food comes out fast, but that is when I am eating at restaurants where I live. When I am in WDW if the food comes out fast I don't mind. It just does not have to be 5 or 10 minutes after we order, assuming we don't order any appetizers because that will cause our main meal to be brought out later.

drakethib
05-20-2007, 06:45 PM
Obviously the Cast Members can't say eat fast so we can clean your table and give to the next set of guests. I also don't mind when food comes out fast, but that is when I am eating at restaurants where I live. When I am in WDW if the food comes out fast I don't mind. It just does not have to be 5 or 10 minutes after we order, assuming we don't order any appetizers because that will cause our main meal to be brought out later.

I do have to admit that I never heard of anyone having issues with their meal coming out to quick when they order.

This one is a first for me.

Have a great evening! :)

CR Resort Fan 4 Life
05-20-2007, 06:45 PM
If you don't plan it all out, you may be shut out of a decent meal, unless you like counter service all the time. :sad1:My family and I don't mind the counter service locations and there a few of them which serve some great meals. Take Earl of Sandwich and Wolfgang Puck Express. Those locations maybe considered a counter service meal, however their food is amaizing. Last December when my family and I were in WDW we made 0 ADR's and did not go hungry. Some nights we went to offsite restaurants and other nights we went to counter service locations in the Resorts and they were not that bad.

CR Resort Fan 4 Life
05-20-2007, 06:48 PM
I do have to admit that I never heard of anyone having issues with their meal coming out to quick when they order.

This one is a first for me.

Have a great evening! :)It's not an issue, it's more of an observation about the way things are done during lunch time at the table service locations. I also happen to think that part of that is because of the DDP.

marivaid
05-20-2007, 06:58 PM
One example I remember from 2005 is the Cinderella's sliper dessert at the castle.

Was the slipper dessert on the DDP then ? I'm pretty certain it's not now and that you have to order it at an extra cost.

Do those die hard proponents of the DDP that like to dispute everything really honestly think that no changes have occured?!

No one is saying that changes haven't occured, some of us are saying that the DDP is not the reason for those changes. The only concrete evidence I've seen at this point is the kids menus,and IMO it's more likely due to adults buying kids meals to save money. At TS you can still get kids' desserts you just have to pay extra for them.

By the way, we'll be using the DDE for our next trip. Just because I don't blame the DDP for every single thing that's wrong with Disney Dining doesn't mean it will work for us on every trip.

Mickeyluver37
05-20-2007, 07:02 PM
LOL. I've been at Drum for 6 years and I HEAR YA!!! The Target opening was a big hit as were all of the new restaurants lol!!!

Missie

Ah, but like me, at least you "know better" since you're a military transplant, I assume. Dh's entire HUGE extended family lives up there and I can tell you that most of them wouldn't DREAM of spending $100+ per person on a meal.

Mickeyluver37
05-20-2007, 07:09 PM
Was the slipper dessert on the DDP then ? I'm pretty certain it's not now and that you have to order it at an extra cost.



No one is saying that changes haven't occured, some of us are saying that the DDP is not the reason for those changes. The only concrete evidence I've seen at this point is the kids menus,and IMO it's more likely due to adults buying kids meals to save money. At TS you can still get kids' desserts you just have to pay extra for them.

By the way, we'll be using the DDE for our next trip. Just because I don't blame the DDP for every single thing that's wrong with Disney Dining doesn't mean it will work for us on every trip.

Well, I don't have a problem with the dining plan itself, I think it's a great idea, and we'll be using it (FREE!!! :cool1: ) for the first time this year. What the complaints seem to be stemming from is the POPULARITY of it. I'm actually surprised to read that so many people only do TS because of the Dining Plan.

I don't blame DDP for everything, but I certainly realize that it has caused some things to change- which is what Disney wanted. The restaurants aren't just more popular, but it makes saying on site much more appealing. I was telling friends that we're going to Disney for a week for $82/night, food included in September and most of them are paying more than that just for hotels for local trips around here (Ocean City, Williamsburg, etc.) Even our local KOA charges almost that much for a cabin per night, and you have to bring your own food!

Oh, and regarding the Cinderella dinner- we went in 8/2005 when the Dining Plan was fairly new, but we were not on the dining plan. That meal has changed a bit since then.

marivaid
05-20-2007, 07:13 PM
I don't blame DDP for everything, but I certainly realize that it has caused some things to change- which is what Disney wanted.

Couldn't agree more!!!!

want2bamommy
05-20-2007, 07:14 PM
Ah, but like me, at least you "know better" since you're a military transplant, I assume. Dh's entire HUGE extended family lives up there and I can tell you that most of them wouldn't DREAM of spending $100+ per person on a meal.

Very true. I am from New Jersey (as is DH). I am REALLY missing Portuguese and Cuban food up here! I get my fill when we go to NYC though. Progress has been made over the last 6 years but I do long for the day when we can move back "home."

Mickeyluver37
05-20-2007, 07:18 PM
Very true. I am from New Jersey (as is DH). I am REALLY missing Portuguese and Cuban food up here! I get my fill when we go to NYC though. Progress has been made over the last 6 years but I do long for the day when we can move back "home."

There's one thing I miss from up there and that's all the local ice cream places in the summer- like the Blizzard Barn! Of course, at least we have Rita's and Coldstone here in MD now. :cool1:

The 4 years dh was stationed there, he never had to deploy, and the kids had their grandparents, so I really didn't hate it as much as most!

*KeepMovingForward*
05-20-2007, 07:28 PM
My family and I don't mind the counter service locations and there a few of them which serve some great meals. Take Earl of Sandwich and Wolfgang Puck Express. Those locations maybe considered a counter service meal, however their food is amaizing. Last December when my family and I were in WDW we made 0 ADR's and did not go hungry. Some nights we went to offsite restaurants and other nights we went to counter service locations in the Resorts and they were not that bad.


I'm not knocking the counter service restaurants-although I find the in-park ones lack variety IMO. We LOVE Earl of Sandwich and always eat there for lunch on our last day. That said, we are foodies...we live for the table service meals for dinner. We are also the screwballs that you see taking pics of their food. :rotfl:

LoraJ
05-20-2007, 07:31 PM
One example I remember from 2005 is the Cinderella's sliper dessert at the castle. I would see pictures on here of a fancy presentation, and then when we got there, nearly every person in the restaurant ordered that same dessert. The slipper and the mousse were the same, but the platescape wasn't as fancy. I'm sure you can find pictures in the food porn thread that show the difference of that and possibly others. BTW, I'm not a DDP hater- I'm thrilled to be trying it for the first time this year. I see the negatives, but we are saving a tremendous amount on our trip, so no complaints from me. I am amazed/frustrated at how hard ADR's are to get though!


I wish I had taken pictures of my filet plate from Le Cellier before the DDP. This was from October of last year. My side of spinach is bigger than my meal. I remember there being more stuff on the plate in the past. I could be wrong though. I just thought this was funny:

http://www.loraj.com/disney2006/images/i27.jpg

We've planned our trips just a couple of months in advance. So it is frustrating for us when it comes to making dinner reservations. We mostly ate at resort TS restaurants or DTD on our last trip. We were able to get Le Cellier, but we like to eat late, which porbably helped. Other park TS restaurants we like, we ate at for lunch. But if we ever have a trip where we can't get into any TS restaurants we like and are forced to eat CS or off-site, we'll probably cut back on our Disney trips.

When I was planning my October trip, I remember there being posts about teh signature meals being taken off of the menu and the CM's commenting that it was because of the DDP.

I also remember there being lots of talk how it would be nice to have a menu for those on the DDP, and a regular menu for those paying OOP. Or keep the signature dishes and charge supplemental fees for those on the DDP if they order it.

apostolic4life
05-20-2007, 09:47 PM
Even though this has not been proven and I am sure some of you will flame me over this, I have felt when having lunch at the table service locations that the kitchen staff are sending the food out way to fast, so this way the servers can turn over more tables at a faster rate. My family and I did not rush to eat when we got our food and we did not order any appetizers, however I thought wow that was way to fast for our food to be ready. In my opinion because of how popular the DDP is and because more people are purchasing it, they need to speed up the service to keep getting guests in and out of the restaurants as fast as they can.

Your feeling is probably very close to being correct. When you have a busy "chain style " restaurant, the meals are planned to be in and out in a very short time frame. How many times have we all been half way done with a salad or appetizer when our entree is plopped down as if to say "hurry up". This is typical of places such as those owned and operated as a big box chain restaurant: i.e. Red Lobster, Olive Garden, Outback, etc. As I have stated in previous posts to this thread, WDW TS venues are being homogenized to resemble a chain style of restaurant so that profitability is maximized. I think the DDP is not the cause for this homogenization, but
the tool Disney used to facilitate full restaurants that would ensure the profitability the chain model promised.

Yes, there has been a change in variety from venue to venue, but again I do not think the blame rests solely with the DDP.

:thumbsup2

apostolic4life
05-20-2007, 09:57 PM
I'm not knocking the counter service restaurants-although I find the in-park ones lack variety IMO. We LOVE Earl of Sandwich and always eat there for lunch on our last day. That said, we are foodies...we live for the table service meals for dinner. We are also the screwballs that you see taking pics of their food. :rotfl:


We are guilty of being food pornographers too!! :blush:

DW and I always plan on TS with or without DDP....it's just how we roll!! :rotfl:



:thumbsup2

CR Resort Fan 4 Life
05-20-2007, 10:03 PM
Your feeling is probably very close to being correct. When you have a busy "chain style " restaurant, the meals are planned to be in and out in a very short time frame. How many times have we all been half way done with a salad or appetizer when our entree is plopped down as if to say "hurry up". This is typical of places such as those owned and operated as a big box chain restaurant: i.e. Red Lobster, Olive Garden, Outback, etc. As I have stated in previous posts to this thread, WDW TS venues are being homogenized to resemble a chain style of restaurant so that profitability is maximized. I think the DDP is not the cause for this homogenization, but
the tool Disney used to facilitate full restaurants that would ensure the profitability the chain model promised.

Yes, there has been a change in variety from venue to venue, but again I do not think the blame rests solely with the DDP.

:thumbsup2The thing is when we have had our meals at Prime Time Cafe they did not seem that busy where they need to get our main courses out ASAP. The two times we have had lunch there it has always been after 11:00 AM when they were not busy.

It was the same thing at the Plaza. We had our ADR there around 11:20 AM, although they were a little busier.

NEVERENOUGHWDW
05-20-2007, 10:08 PM
I wish I had taken pictures of my filet plate from Le Cellier before the DDP. This was from October of last year. My side of spinach is bigger than my meal. I remember there being more stuff on the plate in the past. I could be wrong though. I just thought this was funny:

http://www.loraj.com/disney2006/images/i27.jpg

We've planned our trips just a couple of months in advance. So it is frustrating for us when it comes to making dinner reservations. We mostly ate at resort TS restaurants or DTD on our last trip. We were able to get Le Cellier, but we like to eat late, which porbably helped. Other park TS restaurants we like, we ate at for lunch. But if we ever have a trip where we can't get into any TS restaurants we like and are forced to eat CS or off-site, we'll probably cut back on our Disney trips.

When I was planning my October trip, I remember there being posts about teh signature meals being taken off of the menu and the CM's commenting that it was because of the DDP.

I also remember there being lots of talk how it would be nice to have a menu for those on the DDP, and a regular menu for those paying OOP. Or keep the signature dishes and charge supplemental fees for those on the DDP if they order it.

This is a very good point...ask you CMs how many changes have come due to the DDP. Certain chefs that we have spoken to will tell you of all the changes, quality & variety are due to the plan and this has caused some terrific chefs to leave due to the DDP offerings. As far as ''homoginized'' great way to put it....we tell people when going to WDW for the first time think fair chain restaurants that is what you will be getting.

For all the people that have issue believing the changes of menus & signatue dishes just simply look at old Birmbaum books.....some of the menus were superior.

*KeepMovingForward*
05-20-2007, 10:28 PM
We are guilty of being food pornographers too!! :blush:

DW and I always plan on TS with or without DDP....it's just how we roll!! :rotfl:

:thumbsup2


Oh good, then we are not alone in our addiction! I'm a food pornographer and I'm proud! :lmao: Yes, half of why we go to Disney is the food! Don't care where or what we eat for lunch, but dinner must always be TS!

One time in Brown Derby the folks at the table next to us were obviously intrigued by our food photography-at first they looked at us like we were nuts-then when their dessert came I guess we didn't seem so crazy cause they whipped out their cameras and started taking pics of their food too! (Either that or they were mocking us! :rotfl2: )

apostolic4life
05-20-2007, 10:50 PM
I am amazed at how many people on the DIS have personal and close enough relationships with the chefs at WDW so they get all this lovely insider gossip. :goodvibes I just think it is funny, because every thread I have posted on about DDP it seems, at some point in the disscusion, ultimate authority is declared by way of "a chef at WDW told me so". Now I am not saying any poster with those claims is not being truthful. I am saying that if there are so many disgruntled chefs making these claims, who are they and what is their authority in the WDW kitchen brigade system??? Would I trust the guy who is running the fryer as an authority on Disney dining economics and menu planning/design politics.....No. Would I trust the Executive or Sous Chef on these matters......Yes. Many times in the kitchen hierarchy people and menus come and go......if these were small mom & pop operations I am sure everyone on the staff would be somewhat knowing of the circumstances of a departure or reasoning behind a menu change, but when you are talking about a food operation as large as the one at WDW those things don't always get disseminated to ones on the front line.

As I said, I am not calling anyone a liar; I am just questioning the information due to a lack of knowledge of the "chef(s)" who seems to put this very confidential information out in a very public manner, in a very disgruntled fashion. For me to ever put stock into a third party source I would have to know some info on said source.

:thumbsup2

apostolic4life
05-20-2007, 11:01 PM
Yes, half of why we go to Disney is the food! Don't care where or what we eat for lunch, but dinner must always be TS!



As an Executive Chef, I have the philosophy of "You haven't been there till you've eaten the food". Traveling is about new experiences in different places. You can never truly understand a people or culture until you understand what they eat, why they eat it and how they prepare it. Food is our main reason for most trips!! :teeth:


:thumbsup2

MuppetDisneyKrazy
05-20-2007, 11:04 PM
I was waiting in line at Captain Cooks, and someone with the DDP took 10 minutes to figure out what credit they wanted to use. I got confused as they were talking. I just had $22.00 in my hand and my stomach was growling.

CR Resort Fan 4 Life
05-20-2007, 11:12 PM
I was waiting in line at Captain Cooks, and someone with the DDP took 10 minutes to figure out what credit they wanted to use. I got confused as they were talking. I just had $22.00 in my hand and my stomach was growling.Am I right to assume there was only 1 cash register open during this time?

MuppetDisneyKrazy
05-20-2007, 11:20 PM
Nope, there was 2 CR Resort Fan 4 Life. Just the fact that everyone had decided to get breakfast at the same time, didn't make it go any faster.

CR Resort Fan 4 Life
05-20-2007, 11:28 PM
Nope, there was 2 CR Resort Fan 4 Life. Just the fact that everyone had decided to get breakfast at the same time, didn't make it go any faster.Oh ok I see. Also I have had the same problems at the Food & Fun Center. Some people not knowing how many credits they had and etc, so your not alone in this.

Tinkerbell24
05-20-2007, 11:43 PM
I am amazed at how many people on the DIS have personal and close enough relationships with the chefs at WDW so they get all this lovely insider gossip. :goodvibes I just think it is funny, because every thread I have posted on about DDP it seems, at some point in the disscusion, ultimate authority is declared by way of "a chef at WDW told me so". Now I am not saying any poster with those claims is not being truthful. I am saying that if there are so many disgruntled chefs making these claims, who are they and what is their authority in the WDW kitchen brigade system??? Would I trust the guy who is running the fryer as an authority on Disney dining economics and menu planning/design politics.....No. Would I trust the Executive or Sous Chef on these matters......Yes. Many times in the kitchen hierarchy people and menus come and go......if these were small mom & pop operations I am sure everyone on the staff would be somewhat knowing of the circumstances of a departure or reasoning behind a menu change, but when you are talking about a food operation as large as the one at WDW those things don't always get disseminated to ones on the front line.

As I said, I am not calling anyone a liar; I am just questioning the information due to a lack of knowledge of the "chef(s)" who seems to put this very confidential information out in a very public manner, in a very disgruntled fashion. For me to ever put stock into a third party source I would have to know some info on said source.

:thumbsup2

I couldn't agree more! :thumbsup2 You just made my night!:rotfl2: :rotfl2:

LoraJ
05-21-2007, 12:19 AM
When we ate at Narcoossees, our waitress asked us for our dining cards. We told her we were OOP and she was so apologetic. Like it was an insult to be on DDP. I really do wonder how CM's feel about the plan.

That night we also saw the head chef come out and talk to people at a couple of tables. I don't know the exact conversation, but I think I remember him saying hew as leaving. Of course I didn't hear him attribute it to the DDP though. ;)

CR Resort Fan 4 Life
05-21-2007, 12:22 AM
When we ate at Narcoossees, our waitress asked us for our dining cards. We told her we were OOP and she was so apologetic. Like it was an insult to be on DDP. I really do wonder how CM's feel about the plan.

That night we also saw the head chef come out and talk to people at a couple of tables. I don't know the exact conversation, but I think I remember him saying hew as leaving. Of course I didn't hear him attribute it to the DDP though. ;)I thought the servers or hosts ask you before if your on the DDP? That's the way it was when my family and I went to Prime Time Cafe and the Plaza.

LoraJ
05-21-2007, 12:29 AM
I thought the servers or hosts ask you before if your on the DDP? That's the way it was when my family and I went to Prime Time Cafe and the Plaza.


When I made my ADR I indicated we weren't on the plan. I think all of the other servers asked before we ordered. I think she automatically assumed we were on the plan (I don't know, was it because I was wearing a shirt from Target and not Saks?), didn't ask and when we asked for the check she just kept on apologizing. Not like she did a ****oo with the check, but because of her assumption. :confused3

CR Resort Fan 4 Life
05-21-2007, 12:41 AM
When I made my ADR I indicated we weren't on the plan. I think all of the other servers asked before we ordered. I think she automatically assumed we were on the plan (I don't know, was it because I was wearing a shirt from Target and not Saks?), didn't ask and when we asked for the check she just kept on apologizing. Not like she did a ****oo with the check, but because of her assumption. :confused3That's a weird situation. I guess it never happened to my family and I because we made our ADR's on the Atrium Club Level at the Contemporary and they can see in the computer that we are not on the DDP, so there is need to ask us that when we made our ADR's.

FYI: I am not referring to the IPO Cast Members who make your ADR's before you arrive. I am referring to the Cast Members who work on the actual Club Floors in the Deluxe Resorts.

apostolic4life
05-21-2007, 12:50 AM
When we ate at Narcoossees, our waitress asked us for our dining cards. We told her we were OOP and she was so apologetic. Like it was an insult to be on DDP. I really do wonder how CM's feel about the plan.

That night we also saw the head chef come out and talk to people at a couple of tables. I don't know the exact conversation, but I think I remember him saying hew as leaving. Of course I didn't hear him attribute it to the DDP though. ;)

Many chefs stroll the dining room to speak with customers and to discuss their meal with them, but I bet you will never hear one bashing anything Disney (DDP included) to a guest. That would be highly unprofessional and could could cost him/her their position, if not employment entirely. Also, if they are talking with guests, I'll bet they are high up on the kitchen chain of command.

:thumbsup2

kaytieeldr
05-21-2007, 06:15 AM
It just does not have to be 5 or 10 minutes after we order, assuming we don't order any appetizers because that will cause our main meal to be brought out later {and} It's not an issue, it's more of an observation about the way things are done during lunch time at the table service locations. I also happen to think that part of that is because of the DDP. I think it has zero to do with the DDP, and is due entirely to the facts that (a) as stated above, most lunch Guests are anxious to get back to the parks and (b) that a party which orders no appetizers appears to be in that type of rush and (c) the efficiency of the restaurant: when the food is ready, they serve it.

Oh, and regarding the Cinderella dinner- we went in 8/2005 when the Dining Plan was fairly new, but we were not on the dining plan. That meal has changed a bit since then These changes had little if anything to do with the DDP and were based on the popularity of the location.

*KeepMovingForward*
05-21-2007, 06:52 AM
When we ate at Narcoossees, our waitress asked us for our dining cards. We told her we were OOP and she was so apologetic. Like it was an insult to be on DDP. I really do wonder how CM's feel about the plan.




I think there is obviously a difference for the CM's if you are on the DDP. We have never had the hostess ask us if we were on DDP, it has always been our server, so maybe like most things, it just depends. We always do CG on each trip and this past trip I think our server assumed we were on DDP (I really can't say for sure)-he was very brusque and just not the normal happy, conversational and animated CM we are used to there. He took our order and then asked for our DDP cards and we told him no, we were not on it, we had our DDE card though-kind of freaky cause almost instantaneously he was all smiles and joking with us and everything was good in the world again. This was not the first time we had that experience. Same thing at Narcoossee's, Jiko, AP and LC. By the end of our last trip we pretty much felt like celebrities with the CM's for not using DDP-quite a change from when we did. I would love to hear a CM's take on the whole set up.

MaryKatesMom
05-21-2007, 07:13 AM
I've done the DDP, DDE and paid OOP. Our next trip will be the DDE.

I don't like the DDP for a few reasons.

Often the CM's at counter service will be clueless, add a clueless guest in front of me and I'm in for a wait.:mad: This always seems to happen at the waterparks.:confused3 Cold, wet AND hungry.:headache:

We've been going for years and have found it is getting much harder to get the TS's we want. It might be the DDP, higher attendance, more knowledgable guests, only Disney knows but they have been quoted in the press as saying the DDP promotions have been a "success". I would imagine that means more people are eating on property which would reasonably translate into more ADR's.

Funny, I had thought that the menu's had eliminated some of my favorite appetizers (salmon at the R&C) and entree's (prime rib I haven't seen anywhere). No more lobster at Le Cellier. If more people are using DDP it would be logical to believe that Disney ran the numbers and found that guests were ordering the items at the top of the price range so the unprofitable ones had to go. :teacher: Bye, bye my options.

MaryKatesMom
05-21-2007, 07:15 AM
These changes had little if anything to do with the DDP and were based on the popularity of the location.

That is a pretty definative answer. What is your source?

NEVERENOUGHWDW
05-21-2007, 09:15 AM
I am amazed at how many people on the DIS have personal and close enough relationships with the chefs at WDW so they get all this lovely insider gossip. :goodvibes I just think it is funny, because every thread I have posted on about DDP it seems, at some point in the disscusion, ultimate authority is declared by way of "a chef at WDW told me so". Now I am not saying any poster with those claims is not being truthful. I am saying that if there are so many disgruntled chefs making these claims, who are they and what is their authority in the WDW kitchen brigade system??? Would I trust the guy who is running the fryer as an authority on Disney dining economics and menu planning/design politics.....No. Would I trust the Executive or Sous Chef on these matters......Yes. Many times in the kitchen hierarchy people and menus come and go......if these were small mom & pop operations I am sure everyone on the staff would be somewhat knowing of the circumstances of a departure or reasoning behind a menu change, but when you are talking about a food operation as large as the one at WDW those things don't always get disseminated to ones on the front line.

As I said, I am not calling anyone a liar; I am just questioning the information due to a lack of knowledge of the "chef(s)" who seems to put this very confidential information out in a very public manner, in a very disgruntled fashion. For me to ever put stock into a third party source I would have to know some info on said source.

:thumbsup2
When there are severe life threatening allergies in your family every meal you speak to the chef. When you visit several times a year and usually frequent the same TSs you tend to become friendly with them.
If you want to make note for the future we also have a very good family friend who is an architect executive so sometimes we know which way certain things are going so please call me a liar now so when I post about a building or changes you won't always have such a horrible reaction.

MuppetDisneyKrazy
05-21-2007, 09:40 AM
Whenever we arrive at restaurants they ask us "Are you on DDP?".

apostolic4life
05-21-2007, 10:11 AM
When there are severe life threatening allergies in your family every meal you speak to the chef. When you visit several times a year and usually frequent the same TSs you tend to become friendly with them.
If you want to make note for the future we also have a very good family friend who is an architect executive so sometimes we know which way certain things are going so please call me a liar now so when I post about a building or changes you won't always have such a horrible reaction.

Just seems highly unprofessional for someone who is in a position of authority in any kind of establishment to run down or bad mouth the operation to someone who they have a casual relationship with. If this was someone who you knew outside the parks or resorts and had a deeply personal relationship with it could be a reasonable expectation to say you may discuss such issues. Based on the above description of the relationship though ("friendly with them"), I find it hard to believe they are going to share all the company dirty laundry with a guest no matter often they in there. If these chefs are behaving in this manner, they are not professional by any stretch of the imagination and should be fired. The last thing any company needs is for someone of position in their organization to be discussing internal information with casual acquaintances.

By the way, re-read my post........I did not call you a liar because you may have been the recipient of some bad gossip from the source. I would bet if someone did give you such information they were probably on their way out because it would seem their loyalty is at question.

LoraJ
05-21-2007, 10:17 AM
Just seems highly unprofessional for someone who is in a position of authority in any kind of establishment to run down or bad mouth the operation to someone who they have a casual relationship with. If this was someone who you knew outside the parks or resorts and had a deeply personal relationship with it could be a reasonable expectation to say you may discuss such issues. Based on the above description of the relationship though ("friendly with them"), I find it hard to believe they are going to share all the company dirty laundry with a guest no matter often they in there. If these chefs are behaving in this manner, they are not professional by any stretch of the imagination and should be fired. The last thing any company needs is for someone of position in their organization to be discussing internal information with casual acquaintances.

By the way, re-read my post........I did not call you a liar because you may have been the recipient of some bad gossip from the source. I would bet if someone did give you such information they were probably on their way out because it would seem their loyalty is at question.

But you are assuming that indicating menu changes due to the DDP as bad mouthing as opposed to stating facts. If someone asks a chef they are friendly with "how come you no longer offer the lobster here?" And they answer something along the lines "It wasn't cost effective with the new dining plan." Is that bad mouthing or stating a fact?

apostolic4life
05-21-2007, 10:40 AM
But you are assuming that indicating menu changes due to the DDP as bad mouthing as opposed to stating facts. If someone asks a chef they are friendly with "how come you no longer offer the lobster here?" And they answer something along the lines "It wasn't cost effective with the new dining plan." Is that bad mouthing or stating a fact?


... I would expect the response to be of a more diplomatic nature. This is all a game of marketing for which the chef plays an intricate role. If he does not put a positive spin on a customer's negative response he has failed at a major part of his job. He is required to shamelessly promote every aspect of the dining operation whether he personally likes it or not. If he does not lead by example it could run into a staff morale issue down the road. Who wants to eat in a place nobody takes ownership and makes the experience positive for the guests?? No, you can't make everyone happy 100% of the time, but you must try!


:thumbsup2

Katiebell
05-21-2007, 11:25 AM
Most agree that if you are new to Disney you wouldn't recognize the difference in TS dining. Also, I think where you are from strongly effects what you consider good, excellent food (no that isn't a knock all looking to flame just a fact that some/many parts of the country do not have fine, high quality, diversified dining readily available).

Wow. Yikes. Perhaps you didn't mean this the way it sounds? I live in an urban area and have eaten at fabulous restaurants in LA, Sacramento, Mendocino, San Francisco, Seattle, and Ireland. My husband and I love to try new dishes and ethnic cuisine. We have enjoyed some excellent meals in pricey establishments; however, we are definitely not food snobs, and some of our greatest, most memorable meals were at places like a hippie breakfast diner in the heart of Haight Ashbury, or a local hole-in-the-wall Mexican place that advertises "big and boozy" margaritas on their menu, and serves amazingly delicious carnitas, chile verde, and house-made tortillas.

If the OP feels this way about the DDP, they are allowed the express their feelings. There are no rules on this board that all posts about the DDP have to be 100% positive, because there are others who don't like it for whatever their reasons are.

Absolutely, everyone has the right to their own opinion about the DDP, and some will love it and some will hate it. That's totally fine, and that's not the problem. After reading the last 15 pages (and yes, I read every single post), as well as other threads on this same topic, the objection is that some who dislike the dining plan also express their contempt and disdain for those who would stoop to buying it -- and then there are all the little digs about "those kinds of people" who stay at value resorts, and they should go back to buying CS because they are cluttering up our TS restaurants and now everyone has to make reservations, now our lovely menus have been dumbed down for them, and they don't know the difference since they don't know what decent food is anyway, and a dinner at IHOP is a big night out to them...

Even though this has not been proven and I am sure some of you will flame me over this, I have felt when having lunch at the table service locations that the kitchen staff are sending the food out way to fast, so this way the servers can turn over more tables at a faster rate. My family and I did not rush to eat when we got our food and we did not order any appetizers, however I thought wow that was way to fast for our food to be ready. In my opinion because of how popular the DDP is and because more people are purchasing it, they need to speed up the service to keep getting guests in and out of the restaurants as fast as they can.

In restaurants everywhere, there is what is known as the "lunch rush" and the "dinner rush". At lunches things seem to be faster paced at a busy restaurant because there is a specific time window in which people usually want to eat lunch, they are usually anxious to eat and get on with their day, and there are many other people waiting a turn to get their meals in that same time window and get on with their days as well. We didn't eat lunch on the DDP, but had several breakfasts and dinners, and not one time did the server ever rush us or act impatient if we wanted to linger a little over coffee at the end of our meal -- in fact, several, when they brought our check, offered drink refills and said, "No hurry at all, take your time."

Often the CM's at counter service will be clueless, add a clueless guest in front of me and I'm in for a wait.:mad: This always seems to happen at the waterparks.:confused3 Cold, wet AND hungry.:headache:

The most clueless guests who held up CS lines in front of us -- at Tusker House and at Columbia Harbor House -- paid cash. I watched for it, to see if the confusion was being caused by the DDP. It wasn't.

Funny, I had thought that the menu's had eliminated some of my favorite appetizers (salmon at the R&C) and entree's (prime rib I haven't seen anywhere).

Prime rib was at several buffets -- we had it at Boma. My husband also ordered prime rib at the Grand Floridian Cafe, and it was excellent. He also had the best French Onion soup we've ever tasted as his appetizer.

Mkrop
05-21-2007, 11:28 AM
Im thinking the CMs are unhappy because we were told by our server at Concourse Staekhouse tht they have them working 6 days and some are asked to work 7. Maybe they are burned out from the extar hours vs DDP or anything else. Just a thought!

kaytieeldr
05-21-2007, 12:04 PM
That is a pretty definative answer. What is your source?

Deductive reasoning/logic/common sense

CRT went from
A pre-plated all you care to eat Character Breakfast combined with a non-character a la carte menu lunch and dinner, to
A similar pre-plated all you care to eat Character Breakfast combined with a limited-menu-option Character lunch combined with a limited-menu-option + limited Character dinner.

At the same time, the price per diner/meal increased (off the top of my head) about 50%.


So, the price goes up, the selection (depending on the meal) remains the same or goes down – how can that possibly be considered a result of, or even connection to, the DDP?

kaytieeldr
05-21-2007, 12:26 PM
After reading the last 15 pages (and yes, I read every single post), as well as other threads on this same topic, the objection is that some who dislike the dining plan also express their contempt and disdain for those who would stoop to buying it -- and then there are all the little digs about "those kinds of people" who stay at value resorts, and they should go back to buying CS because they are cluttering up our TS restaurants and now everyone has to make reservations, now our lovely menus have been dumbed down for them, and they don't know the difference since they don't know what decent food is anyway, and a dinner at IHOP is a big night out to them... First, kudos to you for reading the entire thread :) Interesting inference – you get that feeling too, huh? That the perceived classlessness of the DDP Guests is the primary (or only) cause of the menu changes?

Funny, I had thought that the menu's had eliminated some of my favorite appetizers (salmon at the R&C) and entree's (prime rib I haven't seen anywhere). Additional research on wdwinfo.com and allearsnet shows the following sit-down restaurants have prime rib on the menu:
Boatwright’s as of 5/07
Concourse as of 3/07
Grand Floridian Café as of 4/07
Kona Café as of 3/07
Le Cellier as of 5/07
Olivia’s as of 3/07
Wolfgang Puck Grand Café (upstairs) as of 5/07
and likely:
Shula’s as of 8/06
Yachtsman Steakhouse as of 11/06
and possibly:
Shutters as of 11/06

And non-sushi salmon appetizers are available at
Bistro de Paris (11/06)
Chefs de France (4/07)
Grand Floridian Cafe (4/07)
Raglan Road (5/07)

Marion
05-21-2007, 12:36 PM
After reading the last 15 pages (and yes, I read every single post), as well as other threads on this same topic, the objection is that some who dislike the dining plan also express their contempt and disdain for those who would stoop to buying it -- and then there are all the little digs about "those kinds of people" who stay at value resorts, and they should go back to buying CS because they are cluttering up our TS restaurants and now everyone has to make reservations, now our lovely menus have been dumbed down for them, and they don't know the difference since they don't know what decent food is anyway, and a dinner at IHOP is a big night out to them...

Bingo. That's the biggest irritation to me and a bit upsetting for our first trip. Purchasing the 'all inclusive package' seemed the sensible thing to me... I didn't realize I would now be wearing a contemptuous 'one of them' label! :lmao:

Barbers2005
05-21-2007, 12:43 PM
I didn't realize I would now be wearing a contemptuous 'one of them' label! :lmao:

Maybe we could all get together and buy them in bulk. I bet we could save a lot of money that way.

OWJAY
05-21-2007, 12:46 PM
I like Devil do not like to have to make dining plans 180 days in advance, however because of the popularity of the DDP had to do so. I figure if you can't beat them join them. My trip in Sept will be the first time I have ever used the dinning plan. I am very excited and can't wait to try different restaurants that I would never have been able to afford if not for the DDP. :goodvibes

Same here. We go in 8 days and we are on the DDP for the first time. I totally agree that we will probably eat at places that we would not normally be able to afford.

kaytieeldr
05-21-2007, 12:49 PM
Maybe we could all get together and buy them in bulk. I bet we could save a lot of money that way.

Maybe we can get one of the Dis-ers on the Creative board to help design it? Isn't there a board, or a thread, specifically for t-shirts?

wdwthreethiels
05-21-2007, 12:54 PM
Whenever we arrive at restaurants they ask us "Are you on DDP?".

does anyone know why?
we too, at every meal, this past week were asked if we were on the DDP?
why do they need to know before you even sit down?
bothered me a bit, but not enough to mess with the Magic ;)
Michelle in NY

wdwthreethiels
05-21-2007, 01:01 PM
I think there is obviously a difference for the CM's if you are on the DDP. We have never had the hostess ask us if we were on DDP, it has always been our server, so maybe like most things, it just depends. We always do CG on each trip and this past trip I think our server assumed we were on DDP (I really can't say for sure)-he was very brusque and just not the normal happy, conversational and animated CM we are used to there. He took our order and then asked for our DDP cards and we told him no, we were not on it, we had our DDE card though-kind of freaky cause almost instantaneously he was all smiles and joking with us and everything was good in the world again. This was not the first time we had that experience. Same thing at Narcoossee's, Jiko, AP and LC. By the end of our last trip we pretty much felt like celebrities with the CM's for not using DDP-quite a change from when we did. I would love to hear a CM's take on the whole set up.

same here, we were there last week, we have used the DDE for a few years, and are always taken by the reaction of the CM's when we arrive at the restaurant, the first question is "are you on the DDP"? when we say no, suddenly the mood changes a bit, perhaps it is the expectation of a gratuity?
Michelle in NY, first time DDP in September (will most likely leave with lots of credits still available.......):confused3

ExPirateShopGirl
05-21-2007, 02:27 PM
I generally respond with something like, "We are on the plan, but we're not entirely certain if we're using it this meal. Thanks for asking!"



does anyone know why?
we too, at every meal, this past week were asked if we were on the DDP?
why do they need to know before you even sit down?
bothered me a bit, but not enough to mess with the Magic ;)
Michelle in NY

marivaid
05-21-2007, 02:42 PM
does anyone know why?
we too, at every meal, this past week were asked if we were on the DDP?
why do they need to know before you even sit down?


Because if you're on the plan the server needs to know so she can tell you exactly what's included and what isnt.

When I call to make ADRs they always ask if I'm on the plan. Since we dropped the DDP this time, and kept a few ADRs we had when we were on the plan, I called and asked if I should cancel & rebook. Was told no, but to give her my confirmation #s so she'd "move me".
It was a little strange. Where did she move me to ?? :rotfl:

when we say no, suddenly the mood changes a bit, perhaps it is the expectation of a gratuity?

The DDP includes 18% gratuity. With the new rule of automatically adding the 18% to DDE users and removing it from the DDP, I bet we'll see a lot of comments like this "We get better service on the DDP because they have to earn their tips!". :confused3

TheDisneyGirl02
05-21-2007, 07:01 PM
Im thinking the CMs are unhappy because we were told by our server at Concourse Staekhouse tht they have them working 6 days and some are asked to work 7. Maybe they are burned out from the extar hours vs DDP or anything else. Just a thought!

Many CMs are burned out, but it's not always because of the DDP...numbers of guests at the parks have been going up, however hiring may not be so it puts extra strain on those CM's who are already working. Working 6 or 7 days a week can put a strain on anybody. I did it (not at WDW though) for two months a few years ago and it was horrible.

I'm still not exactly 100% sure why so many people blame DDP for everything. If Disney kept every single dish on their menu the exact same way for years, people wouldn't be happy about that. Portion sizes may have changed, but that's just what happens...it may cost more to buy the food...I don't know, but I'm just saying. Things change and there's nothing that can be done about that.

Personally, I'm going to enjoy the food that is served at WDW while I can because I only get there every so often and I'm going to savor every bite. :)

NEVERENOUGHWDW
05-21-2007, 07:30 PM
Just seems highly unprofessional for someone who is in a position of authority in any kind of establishment to run down or bad mouth the operation to someone who they have a casual relationship with. If this was someone who you knew outside the parks or resorts and had a deeply personal relationship with it could be a reasonable expectation to say you may discuss such issues. Based on the above description of the relationship though ("friendly with them"), I find it hard to believe they are going to share all the company dirty laundry with a guest no matter often they in there. If these chefs are behaving in this manner, they are not professional by any stretch of the imagination and should be fired. The last thing any company needs is for someone of position in their organization to be discussing internal information with casual acquaintances.

By the way, re-read my post........I did not call you a liar because you may have been the recipient of some bad gossip from the source. I would bet if someone did give you such information they were probably on their way out because it would seem their loyalty is at question.

Our very close friend the architect should be fired as well is that your logic? We have seen some chefs well into the double digits and there is nothing wrong with chatting about property changes. When you have spent as many weeks in WDW as we have perhaps you will understand (when you add up our time we have spent over a year there, that is alot of time to get to know CMs).

stevepete
05-21-2007, 08:05 PM
We don't use the DDP because we don't want to be "tied down" to anything so it doesn't work for us. I know it works for some (most) people and that's great for you. However, there is not doubt that since they introduced the plan, menus have changed. The bakery at the BW is a perfect example of this. The selection used to be huge offering several different types of donuts, cakes, cookies and yummy pasteries. We have watched the selection decrease every visit since the DDP was introduced. This is what bothers me. After talking with an employee there, we were told it was becuase of the plan that the selections were being limited. I don't know if it was because it was easier to offer what is included in the plan or what. What I do feel is why should my selection be limited because I don't think that the dining plan works for my family? Though it may seem insignificant to some, the Disney experience to others might have been that special "treat" that they were once able to get but now can't. I don't think many people go to Disney to listen to the bands (or insert your special "thing" here) but if they were to remove them, and leave only the most popular sights and sounds, it would go from being the "Disney experience" to the "Disney routine". Just my opinion! :rolleyes1

apostolic4life
05-21-2007, 11:37 PM
Our very close friend the architect should be fired as well is that your logic? We have seen some chefs well into the double digits and there is nothing wrong with chatting about property changes. When you have spent as many weeks in WDW as we have perhaps you will understand (when you add up our time we have spent over a year there, that is alot of time to get to know CMs).

No, if the architect is a close personal friend you probably will have in depth discussions about things concerning work, that what close personal friends do. I would guess those discussions would be in confidence as a close personal friend and not meant as fodder to make you seem more important on a discussion board about architecture. If my close personal friends used things given to them in confidence for fodder on a discussion board I would feel betrayed. Now, about the casual relationship you have with a chef (oops, now it is "chefs", more than one), why would they tell you everything they find wrong with WDW food operations......this makes no sense to me. I know my words will fall on deaf ears, but why would they possibly risk their livelihood by spilling conceivably confidential information to a guest whom they may only see a few times a year????

As for trying to discredit my professional opinion, I hope you find your inner peace.......I will say a prayer for that. :hug: Yes, you may have spent more time at WDW than I have, and I am happy for anyone who gets to frequent the happiest place on Earth so often.....someday maybe I can be blessed to have spent that much time at WDW with my beautiful family. I can only hope!!!! :yay: That said, no matter how much time I have spent at WDW in the future I hope I never think that puts me above others. Just my humble two cents.


:thumbsup2

Katiebell
05-22-2007, 01:58 AM
Maybe we could all get together and buy them in bulk. I bet we could save a lot of money that way.

Only if we buy them at Walmart. Or get them on sale for at least 50% off. :rotfl2:

same here, we were there last week, we have used the DDE for a few years, and are always taken by the reaction of the CM's when we arrive at the restaurant, the first question is "are you on the DDP"? when we say no, suddenly the mood changes a bit, perhaps it is the expectation of a gratuity?

I find this confusing -- if you were on the DDP, the server is guaranteed an 18% tip; a guest paying OOP using the DDE may tip that much or more, but may also tip considerably less. Well, unless the contract negotiations go the way they are being discussed and DDE guests will be automatically assessed an 18% tip. Then if the tip is guaranteed on the DDE, will people say they receive poor service when using it?

The bakery at the BW is a perfect example of this. The selection used to be huge offering several different types of donuts, cakes, cookies and yummy pasteries. We have watched the selection decrease every visit since the DDP was introduced. This is what bothers me. After talking with an employee there, we were told it was becuase of the plan that the selections were being limited. I don't know if it was because it was easier to offer what is included in the plan or what.

Didn't go to the bakery at BW, but went to the Boulangerie, Kringla, and the Main Street Bakery. All of them had excellent choices, so many that we had a hard time making a selection. I can't imagine what they would have been like if there had been even more choices. :laughing:

Again, I still see people commenting, "Quality and selection have declined since the DDP," or "Portion sizes are so much smaller since the DDP," or "Signature items have disappeared from the menus since the DDP..." Those things may be true, but it doesn't mean that there is a cause and effect relationship with the DDP. The cause is that Disney set out to find ways to make their food service more profitable. They implemented a plan that included: standardizing menus somewhat (although we found plenty of variety and selection and didn't find ourselves eating the same dishes over and over); removing some signature dishes and high end ingredients from the menus, or excluding them from the DDP; providing the ME so guests don't rent a car so they stay at the parks; offering the Dining Plan so everyone will prepay for their meals. The DDP is part of that whole strategy and was implemented around the same time as many of those changes, but it is not the cause of everything else happening.

MaryKatesMom
05-22-2007, 08:34 AM
We don't use the DDP because we don't want to be "tied down" to anything so it doesn't work for us. I know it works for some (most) people and that's great for you. However, there is not doubt that since they introduced the plan, menus have changed. The bakery at the BW is a perfect example of this. The selection used to be huge offering several different types of donuts, cakes, cookies and yummy pasteries. We have watched the selection decrease every visit since the DDP was introduced. This is what bothers me. After talking with an employee there, we were told it was becuase of the plan that the selections were being limited. I don't know if it was because it was easier to offer what is included in the plan or what. What I do feel is why should my selection be limited because I don't think that the dining plan works for my family? Though it may seem insignificant to some, the Disney experience to others might have been that special "treat" that they were once able to get but now can't. I don't think many people go to Disney to listen to the bands (or insert your special "thing" here) but if they were to remove them, and leave only the most popular sights and sounds, it would go from being the "Disney experience" to the "Disney routine". Just my opinion! :rolleyes1


I agree with you.

DDP may not be responsible for all of the changes but its success must have had some effect.

Disney has admitted it has been a "success" which translates into more ADR's and customers in their TS restaurants. Changes in the TS restuarants would almost certainly have to be made in response to the increase in pressure on the kitchens. One way to streamline operations would be to decrease selections which I'm sure as an Executive Chef apostolic4life would agree with. In addition, the DDP would not create a market to upsell, rather since the price paid is independent of selections made, market pressure would be brought to bear to eliminate the pricier items in popular DDP spots.

I certainly am not saying DDP is the root of all evil but it is reasonable and logical to say that it would have some influence.

MaryKatesMom
05-22-2007, 08:45 AM
First, kudos to you for reading the entire thread :) Interesting inference – you get that feeling too, huh? That the perceived classlessness of the DDP Guests is the primary (or only) cause of the menu changes?

Additional research on wdwinfo.com and allearsnet shows the following sit-down restaurants have prime rib on the menu:
Boatwright’s as of 5/07
Concourse as of 3/07
Grand Floridian Café as of 4/07
Kona Café as of 3/07
Le Cellier as of 5/07
Olivia’s as of 3/07
Wolfgang Puck Grand Café (upstairs) as of 5/07
and likely:
Shula’s as of 8/06
Yachtsman Steakhouse as of 11/06
and possibly:
Shutters as of 11/06



With the exeption of Le Cellier (where it is not the priciest item on the menu) none of the restaurants are located in the parks. It used to be on the R&C's menu and was the most expensive.

Unless I'm staying at that resort, I don't travel to resorts for a TS meal and I don't do DD either.

Perhaps the majority of DDP users go to TS restaurants inside the parks thereby concentrating the effect. Only Disney knows.

Disney8704
05-22-2007, 09:05 AM
So weird they asked you when you made your ADRs. I made my LTT ADR for december before MVMCP (still have to cancel it) and they never asked if I was on the dining plan. :confused3

Because if you're on the plan the server needs to know so she can tell you exactly what's included and what isnt.

When I call to make ADRs they always ask if I'm on the plan. Since we dropped the DDP this time, and kept a few ADRs we had when we were on the plan, I called and asked if I should cancel & rebook. Was told no, but to give her my confirmation #s so she'd "move me".
It was a little strange. Where did she move me to ?? :rotfl:



The DDP includes 18% gratuity. With the new rule of automatically adding the 18% to DDE users and removing it from the DDP, I bet we'll see a lot of comments like this "We get better service on the DDP because they have to earn their tips!". :confused3

kaytieeldr
05-22-2007, 09:43 AM
With the exeption of Le Cellier (where it is not the priciest item on the menu) none of the restaurants are located in the parks. It used to be on the R&C's menu and was the most expensive.

Unless I'm staying at that resort, I don't travel to resorts for a TS meal and I don't do DD either.

Perhaps the majority of DDP users go to TS restaurants inside the parks thereby concentrating the effect. Only Disney knows. Oh. I wasn't aware there were 'conditions'. I thought providing the locations where prime rib IS available would be enough.

Regarding the salmon being the most expensive app on the R&C menu, well, now that distinction goes to the prawns. Salmon is also not the most expensive appetizer on the Bistro de Paris or Raglan Road menus. However, if the cost of a menu item is important to the diner, salmon IS the most expensive appetizer on the Chefs de France menu.

marivaid
05-22-2007, 09:59 AM
With the exeption of Le Cellier (where it is not the priciest item on the menu) none of the restaurants are located in the parks.

CRT and Crystal Palace both offer prime rib for dinner and are in MK.

There's always some kind of dead cow available at every restaurant in the parks or at resorts. By the way,you're really missing out. Some of the best restaurants are in the resorts.

apostolic4life
05-22-2007, 10:23 AM
One way to streamline operations would be to decrease selections which I'm sure as an Executive Chef apostolic4life would agree with.


I agree 100%, but I do not believe the streamlining was a result of the DDP. As I have stated earlier, I think Disney would "streamlined" or homogenized their operation over time to maximize their profitability. Of course, this is speculation on my part based on the market trends I have seen over the last 5 years or so in the food industry. The changes are based more on the decision Disney had made to follow the "chain restaurant" business model so production and food costs can be better controlled. I think the DDP was implemented as a catalyst so Disney could facilitate the changes so many have noticed. Yes, I have seen some differences in the variety from venue to venue too, but I think the food quality is still better than you would receive at one of the popular big box chain restaurants!


:thumbsup2

LoraJ
05-22-2007, 10:44 AM
apostolic, check out the changes at the bars thread. Lots more discussion about the menus being standardized due to the DDP. Are you going to call them liars too?

marivaid
05-22-2007, 11:03 AM
apostolic, check out the changes at the bars thread. Lots more discussion about the menus being standardized due to the DDP. Are you going to call them liars too?

Wow. No need to get nasty. He didn't call anyone a liar, he just happens to think there is another reason why the food is being standardized.

How can you blame the DDP for changes in the DRINK menus when the DDP doesn't include any alcoholic drink of any kind ? While you're at it why don't you blame it for the new generic mugs.

LoraJ
05-22-2007, 11:31 AM
Wow. No need to get nasty. He didn't call anyone a liar, he just happens to think there is another reason why the food is being standardized.

How can you blame the DDP for changes in the DRINK menus when the DDP doesn't include any alcoholic drink of any kind ? While you're at it why don't you blame it for the new generic mugs.

Never said I was blaming the standardized drinks on the DDP. Just thought there were some interesting posts about the food towards the end not mentioned here.

His posts were implied that people were making up their conversations with chefs.

apostolic4life
05-22-2007, 12:10 PM
apostolic, check out the changes at the bars thread. Lots more discussion about the menus being standardized due to the DDP. Are you going to call them liars too?

Never said I was blaming the standardized drinks on the DDP. Just thought there were some interesting posts about the food towards the end not mentioned here.

His posts were implied that people were making up their conversations with chefs.


Wow, there is some bad mojo going on here. When food is the point you wanted to convey, maybe you should mention it next time (you can always go back and edit that post to make it seem like you made your point :woohoo:). If you would correctly read my post I specifically said (not implied) the problem is not that someone has lied (which I specifically address), but rather the information could have been from a disgruntled employee who could have an axe to grind or low moral issues. I stand by my assertions that any employee who would put a negative spin on any aspect of the dining experience (or any other of Disney's business) to a customer should be fired. They are there to support the policies implemented by the managment. If they do not like the policies or feel the policies cause too much work for them they should get another job.......oh, but I guess it would be better to change a whole corporate philosophy to make a very vocal few happy!!!!! :confused3

I apologize to everyone who has been enjoying the great conversation here since it seems that the conversation has taken a nasty turn........for this I will refrain from posting in response to such mean spirited posts. I have been respectful of all views different from my own and I feel that should be the standard on every thread (differing opinions and good hearts are what make boards like this work).


:thumbsup2

apostolic4life
05-22-2007, 12:13 PM
Wow. No need to get nasty. He didn't call anyone a liar, he just happens to think there is another reason why the food is being standardized.

How can you blame the DDP for changes in the DRINK menus when the DDP doesn't include any alcoholic drink of any kind ? While you're at it why don't you blame it for the new generic mugs.

It is nice to have friends!!!!!! :grouphug:



:thumbsup2

kaytieeldr
05-22-2007, 12:34 PM
I apologize to everyone who has been enjoying the great conversation here since it seems that the conversation has taken a nasty turn........for this I will refrain from posting in response to such mean spirited posts. I have been respectful of all views different from my own and I feel that should be the standard on every thread (differing opinions and good hearts are what make boards like this work).


:thumbsup2
I have been involved in other relatively 'heated' threads with apostolic, usually on opposite sides. He/she has never been anything but polite, no matter how controversial the thread has gotten, and deserves to be responded to in the same manner.

I truly hope the above quote does not prevent her/him from posting in this thread, only - as stated - from responding to certain posts.

lustergirl
05-22-2007, 12:36 PM
wow- this thread is still going on and hasn't been closed yet???

LoraJ
05-22-2007, 12:49 PM
Really, I wasn't trying to be nasty and I appologize if it came out that way. But that was the gist I was getting from the posts. I just found it fascinating that there were other stories coming to light in the other thread.

Someone else had mentioned the same thing I observed but they weren't called being nasty like I am. But that's fine.

The thing is, some people *have* noticed the standardization, and they have every right to complain, don't they? If I state a fact about my job, doesn't mean that I am disgruntled. And so what if they are disgruntled, does it discount the facts that they are stating?

Now there are rumors that the Le Cellier menu will be changing even more so than how it was dumbed down when we last went. If this rumor is true, will more people finally see what is happening?