PDA

View Full Version : Hamas - Mickey Mouse clone


gtrist4life
05-07-2007, 03:41 PM
This is obviously disturbing....

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,270457,00.html

Hamas Uses Mickey Mouse Look-Alike to Teach Terror to Kids on TV
Monday , May 07, 2007

He looks like Mickey Mouse and sounds like Mickey Mouse, but what he's saying is hardly the fairytale stuff of Disney.

A Mickey Mouse look-alike named Farfur is teaching Palestinian children the ABCs of terror on Hamas' official television station, Al-Aqsa TV.

On the weekly program "Tomorrow's Pioneers," Farfur and a young girl name Saraa' tell children to pray five times each day and drink their milk, while urging the children to "resist" the "oppressive invading Zionist occupation."

“Instead of being entertained, they’re being indoctrinated,” Itamar Marcus, the director of Palestinian Media Watch, told FOX News.

Marcus says that "resist" is a Palestinian euphemism for terror.

Click here for FOXNews.com's Middle East center.

"Their message is of hatred toward Jews, hatred toward Israel, hatred to America as well," Marcus said. "They make fun of Condoleezza Rice, they make fun of Bush."

Excerpts from episodes that aired last month show the squeaky voiced mouse egging on children with nationalistic fervor.

"We, tomorrow’s pioneers, will restore to this nation its glory, and we will liberate Al-Aqsa, with Allah’s will, and we will liberate Iraq, with Allah’s will, and we will liberate the Muslim countries, invaded by murderers,” Farfur says in one episode that aired in April.

The message seems to be working. Poems and songs submitted by young viewers contain violent imagery. "Rafah sings ‘Oh, oh,’" one caller says as Farfur mimes carrying a rifle. "Its answer is an AK-47."

Sad to see Mickey being exploited in this way. I cringe to think about this

TheDogbots
05-08-2007, 03:40 AM
LOL

The Chinese do better knock offs though....

JoeEpcotRocks
05-08-2007, 04:00 PM
The depravity of terrorists organizations has no bounds. :sad2: :sad2: :sad2:

TravelinGal
05-08-2007, 04:28 PM
LOL

The Chinese do better knock offs though....

What about children encouraging other children to murder is funny? Don't see why you used LOL here. There is nothing funny about this at all! It's very disturbing.

I wouldn't like any children's show teaching my DS about extremist political views even if it wasn't as out there as this show is.

Watch the video linked in the story - it's frightening what propaganda they are perpetuating on this children's show.

Another Voice
05-08-2007, 04:55 PM
The Farfur "character" has been on around for several years now and is said to be very popular. The clips shown are from more recent, "toned-down" shows. There was one sequence, a couple years ago, where the "character" sang and danced with a little girl dressed as a suicide bomber (complete with explosive belt, headband and small AK-47) while the little girl sang about the paradise that awaited her for "killing Jews".

Various attempts to co-opt Mickey Mouse and other Disney characters routinely appear in propaganda throughout the region.

TheDogbots
05-08-2007, 05:29 PM
What about children encouraging other children to murder is funny? Don't see why you used LOL here. There is nothing funny about this at all! It's very disturbing.

I wouldn't like any children's show teaching my DS about extremist political views even if it wasn't as out there as this show is.

Watch the video linked in the story - it's frightening what propaganda they are perpetuating on this children's show.

well because it is funny.

if you want a logical reason to laugh at it... then take the irony into account. They are teaching kids to blow up "the west" by using rip-offs of commercialized western icons... now that is ironically funny.

there are horrible cartoons that promote western ideals out there too. IE: see any commercial trying to sell something... capitalism is an ideal. (i am not saying it isn't one i believe in... but it is what it is)

also, as much as you or I don't like it, their society does see things in a different light than ours. and where nothing in Islam says go blow up Jews to get into heaven, they are just interpreting things the way they want. People over on this side of the world do the same things with our mainstream religions. (anti-gay marriage, anti-abortion, etc... I am not saying that these are fundamental movements but a large part of their argument is religious) The world is not a "western" world, we don't all adhere to the same value set. Ideally we would all have a core set of values, but thats just not how it is.

Besides, I also think it is funny because I know kids are smarter than that. Until they start regularly strapping bombs on 8 year olds, i don't think this show has much pull. (and i know they have, but its not a regular thing) I think kids will grow up to make their own decisions on who to hate. And when you live in a society that is heavily biased, there is a good chance that you are going to end up that way anyway. So one show really won't have much impact.

So i defend my right to laugh at this.

JoeEpcotRocks
05-08-2007, 09:22 PM
well because it is funny.

if you want a logical reason to laugh at it... then take the irony into account. They are teaching kids to blow up "the west" by using rip-offs of commercialized western icons... now that is ironically funny.

there are horrible cartoons that promote western ideals out there too. IE: see any commercial trying to sell something... capitalism is an ideal. (i am not saying it isn't one i believe in... but it is what it is)

also, as much as you or I don't like it, their society does see things in a different light than ours. and where nothing in Islam says go blow up Jews to get into heaven, they are just interpreting things the way they want. People over on this side of the world do the same things with our mainstream religions. (anti-gay marriage, anti-abortion, etc... I am not saying that these are fundamental movements but a large part of their argument is religious) The world is not a "western" world, we don't all adhere to the same value set. Ideally we would all have a core set of values, but thats just not how it is.

Besides, I also think it is funny because I know kids are smarter than that. Until they start regularly strapping bombs on 8 year olds, i don't think this show has much pull. (and i know they have, but its not a regular thing) I think kids will grow up to make their own decisions on who to hate. And when you live in a society that is heavily biased, there is a good chance that you are going to end up that way anyway. So one show really won't have much impact.

So i defend my right to laugh at this.

Yeah, it's a real laugh. :sad2: I see no real comparison to anything the "Western World" does. :sad2:

TheDogbots
05-08-2007, 11:46 PM
Yeah, it's a real laugh. :sad2: I see no real comparison to anything the "Western World" does. :sad2:


well I won't take it any further than this, but if you want to make comparisons then make it on this level:

What Are they promoting? A foreign policy that says kill those who don't believe in what we believe.

Some Historical examples of the USA doing just that: Bay of pigs, or any other attempted or successful overthrow of a Latin American country. In Grenada we dropped comic books on the island showing people how to conduct guerrilla warfare and kill civilians who followed the communist ideal... Comic books that look like Stan Lee comic books, quality stuff. Not to mention we used to assassinate people we didn't like. how is that different from what they are doing? trying to communicate to the masses to follow their agenda, and making attacks. (Now let me set the record straight: I don't think any of that is right, I am just stating that it is VERY similar to our own policies throughout time.) I won't drag this out with more examples.... And its not funny because its promoting killing people, it is funny in how they are doing it. there is a difference. I would think it was funny if they were using a dora the explorer or a blues clues rip off to do the same thing. I don't think it's funny what they promote. It really shows how globalized our culture is that they hijack mickey mouse as a tool for their agenda. why? because everyone loves mickey mouse! its universal, but its also a symbol of the west. so using it to convey messages against the west is ironic. and irony is funny.

tfc3rid
05-10-2007, 08:53 AM
Your aattempt at Moral Equivalence is disturbing...

gtrist4life
05-10-2007, 12:57 PM
Just as a follow up, Hamas pulled the fake Mickey off the air.....


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/4791403.html

May 10, 2007, 3:45AM
Militant 'Mickey Mouse' pulled off Hamas TV


By MOHAMMED DARAGHMEH
Associated Press


RAMALLAH, West Bank — Hamas militants have suspended a TV program that featured a Mickey Mouse lookalike urging Palestinian children to fight Israel and work for global Islamic domination, the Palestinian information minister said Wednesday.

Information Minister Mustafa Barghouti said the character — a giant black-and-white rodent with a high-pitched voice — represented a "mistaken approach" to the Palestinian struggle against Israeli occupation.

He said that the program was pulled from Hamas-affiliated Al Aqsa TV at his ministry's request and "placed under review."

The character, named "Farfour," or "butterfly," but unmistakably a copy of the Disney character, preached against the U.S. and Israel each Friday on the show called Tomorrow's Pioneers.

"You and I are laying the foundation for a world led by Islamists," Farfour squeaked on a recent episode. "We will return the Islamic community to its former greatness, and liberate Jerusalem, God willing, liberate Iraq, God willing, and liberate all the countries of the Muslims invaded by the murderers."

Children called in to the show, many singing Hamas anthems about fighting Israel.

A spokeswoman for Burbank, Calif.-based Walt Disney Co. did not return phone calls seeking comment, and the Gaza TV station had no comment.

The program was opposed by the Palestinian Broadcasting Corp., which is controlled by the Fatah movement of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, a Hamas rival that shares power with the militants in the Palestinian government.

Barghouti is an independent aligned with neither Hamas nor Fatah.

Loyalists of Hamas, which is sworn to the destruction of Israel, launched the Al Aqsa satellite channel last year. Bearded young men read the news and Islamic music is layered over footage of masked militants firing rockets into Israel. The channel also broadcasts talk shows, programs about the disabled and cartoons.

Hamas loyalists also run at least five news Web sites, a newspaper and a radio station.

agnes!
05-10-2007, 01:30 PM
Gee...I would have thought that a rodent would be considered an Unclean Animal (especially a male[?] that speaks in a freakishly high-pitched voice, is abnormally tall, wears no shirt & has misshapen paws).

agnes!

ASilmser
05-10-2007, 04:51 PM
Gee...I would have thought that a rodent would be considered an Unclean Animal (especially a male[?] that speaks in a freakishly high-pitched voice, is abnormally tall, wears no shirt & has misshapen paws).

agnes!


Not to mention a U.S. Cultural Icon (representing infidels everywhere). There is something ironic about using Mickey Mouse to help get kids to pick up a weapon and kill the unholy westerners.

Kind of like using a scantily clad female porn star dancing around a pole to promote chastity and fidelity.

skeleton_pirate
05-10-2007, 04:51 PM
well I won't take it any further than this, but if you want to make comparisons then make it on this level:

What Are they promoting? A foreign policy that says kill those who don't believe in what we believe.

Some Historical examples of the USA doing just that: Bay of pigs, or any other attempted or successful overthrow of a Latin American country. In Grenada we dropped comic books on the island showing people how to conduct guerrilla warfare and kill civilians who followed the communist ideal... Comic books that look like Stan Lee comic books, quality stuff. Not to mention we used to assassinate people we didn't like. how is that different from what they are doing? trying to communicate to the masses to follow their agenda, and making attacks. (Now let me set the record straight: I don't think any of that is right, I am just stating that it is VERY similar to our own policies throughout time.) I won't drag this out with more examples.... And its not funny because its promoting killing people, it is funny in how they are doing it. there is a difference. I would think it was funny if they were using a dora the explorer or a blues clues rip off to do the same thing. I don't think it's funny what they promote. It really shows how globalized our culture is that they hijack mickey mouse as a tool for their agenda. why? because everyone loves mickey mouse! its universal, but its also a symbol of the west. so using it to convey messages against the west is ironic. and irony is funny.

Dogbots, your intelligence and ability to make rational arguments based on facts, uncolored by the quasi-fascist inability of most people to see the "other" as having any sort of rational thought and emotions while seeing themselves as completely removed and above any of the problems that face this world is clearly not welcome here.

Honestly, I'd find this a heck of a lot more disturbing had I not just returned from a month living in Jerusalem and Ramallah working for the U.S. government.

tfc3rid
05-11-2007, 02:24 PM
They have not completely taken the 'Mouse' clone off the air... They are still airing programs with the character... The MainStream Media just won't tell you...

Glenn Beck on HEadline News was going to run a major story on this but his editors at CNN prevent him from airing it...

skeleton_pirate
05-11-2007, 02:43 PM
Not to mention a U.S. Cultural Icon (representing infidels everywhere). There is something ironic about using Mickey Mouse to help get kids to pick up a weapon and kill the unholy westerners.

Kind of like using a scantily clad female porn star dancing around a pole to promote chastity and fidelity.

I never realized you could fit so many uninformed, racist stereotypes into two posts. Congrats!

minijeanie
05-11-2007, 09:00 PM
I for one was very disturbed seeing a segment of this "show' on tv the other evening.

This type of hatred that is brainwashed into these young children towards the Israeli's and americans makes the hair stand up on my arm.

I so worry for the next generation.

Wick
05-13-2007, 11:03 AM
I never realized you could fit so many uninformed, racist stereotypes into two posts. Congrats!

Call him a racist, but he's right.

And it's is not only ironic, it's hypocritical: Using an undoubtedly Western/American icon and means of mass communication to disseminate a message in direct opposition to a Western/American value set is completely backwards. It's similar to when Osama bin Laden comes out with a new video encouraging the overthrow of all things American while simultaneously sporting American-style camos and assault rifles.

Plus, you've got to at least admit their lack of creativity. I mean, can't they come up with their own character?

JoeEpcotRocks
05-14-2007, 08:41 AM
I never realized you could fit so many uninformed, racist stereotypes into two posts. Congrats!

How was it racist???

ASilmser
05-14-2007, 12:03 PM
I never realized you could fit so many uninformed, racist stereotypes into two posts. Congrats!

Call it whatever you like. My attack was against an ideology, not a race. There are many people in palestine who are peace-loving muslims and christians--I get this. Hamas uses a fear of the excesses of Western/American culture as a front to sway people to their side. I happen to think they could care less about being holy, as long as their political message is spread. This is my objection. They are constantly telling people about the evils of our society (many of them are deserved, by the way) as a way to gain support. I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of using a well-known american/western icon to indoctrinate the children to this very message.

As to my comments about porn stars/erotic dancers--I realize that not all of these women are horrible people. But they do represent an industry that is NOT about portraying chastity or fidelity. If that's a stereotype (I happen to think it is closer to a FACT), it's one that is deserved.

If you have some information that might change my mind about this, I would appreciate being better informed--seriously.

Otherwise, please don't throw words like "racist" and "stereotype" around without providing some elaboration. They are too serious to be used lightly. While it's easy to sling mud, it's not helpful in alleviating the attitudes you are condemning.


If you are referring to the post above mine and the reference to dietary laws and high pitched male voices, please respond to that quote, and not mine. I would agree that their words indicate that they may be uninformed, but I would hesitate to call them racist, especially without any further explanation.

skeleton_pirate
05-14-2007, 12:26 PM
If you want to know why what was said was racist and stereotypical, I highly recommend reading some Edward Said or Foucault. Buzzwords like "infidel" and "unholy" when used by westerners about how Muslims feel about them are part of the paradigmatic vocabulary of racism that pervades how we as Americans view "the other." It wasn;t meant as racism in the way that we generally think of it, i.e. you may not necessarily hate all Muslims, or want them to die, but in classifying Muslims as a separate kind of people with a singular world view in which the West is evil and unholy denies them their free will and humanity.

Additionally, even when just talking about Hamas members, it seems so much easier to make blanket "they" statements that anyone with any kind of sense would know are patently untrue than to actually see them as human beings with rational thoughts and decision-making processes that it is all but inevitable that most Americans would choose to describe them as an unreasonable and terrifying monolith.

Clearly, the use of terror as a political tool is abhorrent, and groups such as Hamas should be taken to task for their actions. Personally, I'm digusted and saddened by the state of affairs in the West Bank and Gaza and the use of a children's show to advocate violence is a terrible thing. But the fact of the matter is that it simply is NOT TRUE that these things happen because they ahte freedom, or because they hate Jews, or because they hate America. Why would any rational person choose (and more than 50% of the Palestinian population voted for Hamas, and most agree with their methods and ideology) to devote their lives to terror, to basically forfeit any chance at a decent life. There are ugly truths at work in this situation, and they are unpleasant to face.

So, we can either see Palestinians/Muslims/etc. as rational beings, and attempt to better understand the situation, or we can say that "they" behave this way because "they" have specific inherent beleifs about the West. That's what was being said and anytime we imbue another culture/race/religion with negative characteristics it is by defenition racist and stereotypical.

JoeEpcotRocks
05-14-2007, 12:36 PM
If you want to know why what was said was racist and stereotypical, I highly recommend reading some Edward Said or Foucault. Buzzwords like "infidel" and "unholy" when used by westerners about how Muslims feel about them are part of the paradigmatic vocabulary of racism that pervades how we as Americans view "the other." It wasn;t meant as racism in the way that we generally think of it, i.e. you may not necessarily hate all Muslims, or want them to die, but in classifying Muslims as a separate kind of people with a singular world view in which the West is evil and unholy denies them their free will and humanity.

Additionally, even when just talking about Hamas members, it seems so much easier to make blanket "they" statements that anyone with any kind of sense would know are patently untrue than to actually see them as human beings with rational thoughts and decision-making processes that it is all but inevitable that most Americans would choose to describe them as an unreasonable and terrifying monolith.

Clearly, the use of terror as a political tool is abhorrent, and groups such as Hamas should be taken to task for their actions. Personally, I'm digusted and saddened by the state of affairs in the West Bank and Gaza and the use of a children's show to advocate violence is a terrible thing. But the fact of the matter is that it simply is NOT TRUE that these things happen because they ahte freedom, or because they hate Jews, or because they hate America. Why would any rational person choose (and more than 50% of the Palestinian population voted for Hamas, and most agree with their methods and ideology) to devote their lives to terror, to basically forfeit any chance at a decent life. There are ugly truths at work in this situation, and they are unpleasant to face.

So, we can either see Palestinians/Muslims/etc. as rational beings, and attempt to better understand the situation, or we can say that "they" behave this way because "they" have specific inherent beleifs about the West. That's what was being said and anytime we imbue another culture/race/religion with negative characteristics it is by defenition racist and stereotypical.

I do not see Hamas, a terrorists organization, or those who vote for them as "rational." Their beliefs about the Jews and the West seem pretty clear.

skeleton_pirate
05-14-2007, 01:24 PM
I do not see Hamas, a terrorists organization, or those who vote for them as "rational." Their beliefs about the Jews and the West seem pretty clear.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Denying any group of people their innate rationality is by definition racist.

It's also fairly clear that you really don't know much about Hamas at all. I work on a U.S. government project to promote democracy in the West Bank and Gaza, and having spent a lot of time living both in the West Bank and in Israel and having spoken to a lot of people, your assessment of Hamas' beliefs is pretty off the mark, and you seem to be combining Hamas and al-Qaeda. They are completely different beasts. I never heard one person say that they hated Jews- there is hatred towards Israel, certainly, but I,having almost been killed by Israeli troops on several occasions, and after witnessing the pain and suffering that the Palestinian people have been through in the past couple of years, I can totally see how it would be a rational opinion. As a westerner, I felt safer in Ramallah than I do in Washington DC. More than anything, people there wanted Americans to feel safe and welcome in the West Bank, and to go back and tell the stories that the American media simply does not tell. Judging by what you hear and read in the US, I can understand why you have your prejudices, but the fact of the matter is that you are receiving faulty information that is easy to digest, and you believe it as gospel truth. Nothing is ever that simple.

People did not vote for Hamas to kill the Jews. They voted for them because they were an alternative to the corrupt Fatah government who had been in power for decades only to see the quality of life of the Palestinian people degrade to unimaginable levels. They voted for Hamas because Hamas promised to fix their streets, build schools, and pay them the salaries that the Fatah government had been unable to do for several years. Do you have any idea how many Palestinian Christians voted for Hamas?

JoeEpcotRocks
05-14-2007, 02:46 PM
That's exactly what I'm saying. Denying any group of people their innate rationality is by definition racist.

It's also fairly clear that you really don't know much about Hamas at all. I work on a U.S. government project to promote democracy in the West Bank and Gaza, and having spent a lot of time living both in the West Bank and in Israel and having spoken to a lot of people, your assessment of Hamas' beliefs is pretty off the mark, and you seem to be combining Hamas and al-Qaeda. They are completely different beasts. I never heard one person say that they hated Jews- there is hatred towards Israel, certainly, but I,having almost been killed by Israeli troops on several occasions, and after witnessing the pain and suffering that the Palestinian people have been through in the past couple of years, I can totally see how it would be a rational opinion. As a westerner, I felt safer in Ramallah than I do in Washington DC. More than anything, people there wanted Americans to feel safe and welcome in the West Bank, and to go back and tell the stories that the American media simply does not tell. Judging by what you hear and read in the US, I can understand why you have your prejudices, but the fact of the matter is that you are receiving faulty information that is easy to digest, and you believe it as gospel truth. Nothing is ever that simple.

People did not vote for Hamas to kill the Jews. They voted for them because they were an alternative to the corrupt Fatah government who had been in power for decades only to see the quality of life of the Palestinian people degrade to unimaginable levels. They voted for Hamas because Hamas promised to fix their streets, build schools, and pay them the salaries that the Fatah government had been unable to do for several years. Do you have any idea how many Palestinian Christians voted for Hamas?

So Hamas made some nice promises. Still lipstick on a pig. They are a terrorists organization, both by word and act.

It's not a matter of race.

The pain and suffering of the Palestinians is mostly self-inflicted by thier own "leaders."

MasterShake
05-14-2007, 05:01 PM
If you want to know why what was said was racist and stereotypical, I highly recommend reading some Edward Said or Foucault. Buzzwords like "infidel" and "unholy" when used by westerners about how Muslims feel about them are part of the paradigmatic vocabulary of racism that pervades how we as Americans view "the other." It wasn;t meant as racism in the way that we generally think of it, i.e. you may not necessarily hate all Muslims, or want them to die, but in classifying Muslims as a separate kind of people with a singular world view in which the West is evil and unholy denies them their free will and humanity.

Additionally, even when just talking about Hamas members, it seems so much easier to make blanket "they" statements that anyone with any kind of sense would know are patently untrue than to actually see them as human beings with rational thoughts and decision-making processes that it is all but inevitable that most Americans would choose to describe them as an unreasonable and terrifying monolith.

Clearly, the use of terror as a political tool is abhorrent, and groups such as Hamas should be taken to task for their actions. Personally, I'm digusted and saddened by the state of affairs in the West Bank and Gaza and the use of a children's show to advocate violence is a terrible thing. But the fact of the matter is that it simply is NOT TRUE that these things happen because they ahte freedom, or because they hate Jews, or because they hate America. Why would any rational person choose (and more than 50% of the Palestinian population voted for Hamas, and most agree with their methods and ideology) to devote their lives to terror, to basically forfeit any chance at a decent life. There are ugly truths at work in this situation, and they are unpleasant to face.

So, we can either see Palestinians/Muslims/etc. as rational beings, and attempt to better understand the situation, or we can say that "they" behave this way because "they" have specific inherent beleifs about the West. That's what was being said and anytime we imbue another culture/race/religion with negative characteristics it is by defenition racist and stereotypical.

Here is a pretty good article I read the other day about one of Hamas's leaders. Your right I did not see the word Infidel or unholy anywhere in the article...Wait...oops I guess he did say infidel toward the end.....

Palestinian leader: 'Kill every American and Jew'
Speaker of PA parliament says U.S. on its way to 'disappearing'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: May 3, 2007
11:23 a.m. Eastern


By Aaron Klein
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com


Ahmad Bahar
TEL AVIV – Every American and Jew in the world must be killed, demanded Ahmad Bahar, the speaker of the Palestinian Authority parliament in a televised speech, explaining the U.S. is on its way to collapse.

"Allah, take hold of the Jews and their allies, Allah, take hold of the Americans and their allies. ... Allah, count them and kill them to the last one and don't leave even one," said Bahar last week in a speech broadcast on official PA television, which is controlled by PA President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party.

Bahar, a Hamas member, is a senior figure in the Hamas-Fatah unity government headed by Abbas.

His speech was translated this week by Palestinian Media Watch, which provided a video excerpt that can be seen here.

Bahar declared the U.S. has been defeated.

"Be certain that America is on its way to disappear. America is wallowing [in blood] today in Iraq and Afghanistan, America is defeated and Israel is defeated, and was defeated in Lebanon and Palestine. ... Make us victorious over the infidel people.

"This is Islam, that was ahead of its time with regards to human rights in the treatment of prisoners, but our people was afflicted by the cancerous lump, that is the Jews, in the heart of the Arab nation."

skeleton_pirate
05-14-2007, 05:15 PM
Here is a pretty good article I read the other day about one of Hamas's leaders. Your right I did not see the word Infidel or unholy anywhere in the article...Wait...oops I guess he did say infidel toward the end.....

Palestinian leader: 'Kill every American and Jew'
Speaker of PA parliament says U.S. on its way to 'disappearing'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: May 3, 2007
11:23 a.m. Eastern


By Aaron Klein
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com


Ahmad Bahar
TEL AVIV – Every American and Jew in the world must be killed, demanded Ahmad Bahar, the speaker of the Palestinian Authority parliament in a televised speech, explaining the U.S. is on its way to collapse.

"Allah, take hold of the Jews and their allies, Allah, take hold of the Americans and their allies. ... Allah, count them and kill them to the last one and don't leave even one," said Bahar last week in a speech broadcast on official PA television, which is controlled by PA President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party.

Bahar, a Hamas member, is a senior figure in the Hamas-Fatah unity government headed by Abbas.

His speech was translated this week by Palestinian Media Watch, which provided a video excerpt that can be seen here.

Bahar declared the U.S. has been defeated.

"Be certain that America is on its way to disappear. America is wallowing [in blood] today in Iraq and Afghanistan, America is defeated and Israel is defeated, and was defeated in Lebanon and Palestine. ... Make us victorious over the infidel people.

"This is Islam, that was ahead of its time with regards to human rights in the treatment of prisoners, but our people was afflicted by the cancerous lump, that is the Jews, in the heart of the Arab nation."

Thanks guys, you totally helped me argue my point. That article is poorly translated from the Arabic to include the buzzwords that Americans like to hear. Do you speak Arabic well enough to understand the original? Cause I do. Am I supposed to be upset that a political leader gave a speech that called for the destruction of one's enemy during a time of war? Do I think Bush is evil because he calls for the destruction of our enemies?

Ignorance is bliss people, far be it from me to knock you off your morally superior highground, even if it is precariously balanced on willfull ignorance and lies. Honestly, if any of you have ever actually read a book about the subject, I would be more than happy to engage in a meaningful debate. If you're just going to come out with "Well I have a very strong opinion that I will voice even though I've only ever heard about it from CNN!" don't bother. If I want frighteningly uninformed opinions about major topics, I'll talk to my mother about gay rights.

JoeEpcotRocks
05-14-2007, 05:22 PM
Thanks guys, you totally helped me argue my point. That article is poorly translated from the Arabic to include the buzzwords that Americans like to hear. Do you speak Arabic well enough to understand the original? Cause I do. Am I supposed to be upset that a political leader gave a speech that called for the destruction of one's enemy during a time of war? Do I think Bush is evil because he calls for the destruction of our enemies?

Ignorance is bliss people, far be it from me to knock you off your morally superior highground, even if it is precariously balanced on willfull ignorance and lies. Honestly, if any of you have ever actually read a book about the subject, I would be more than happy to engage in a meaningful debate. If you're just going to come out with "Well I have a very strong opinion that I will voice even though I've only ever heard about it from CNN!" don't bother. If I want frighteningly uninformed opinions about major topics, I'll talk to my mother about gay rights.

Who are they at war with??

Do tell, what was is the real translation?

MasterShake
05-14-2007, 06:01 PM
Thanks guys, you totally helped me argue my point. That article is poorly translated from the Arabic to include the buzzwords that Americans like to hear. Do you speak Arabic well enough to understand the original? Cause I do. Am I supposed to be upset that a political leader gave a speech that called for the destruction of one's enemy during a time of war? Do I think Bush is evil because he calls for the destruction of our enemies?

Ignorance is bliss people, far be it from me to knock you off your morally superior highground, even if it is precariously balanced on willfull ignorance and lies. Honestly, if any of you have ever actually read a book about the subject, I would be more than happy to engage in a meaningful debate. If you're just going to come out with "Well I have a very strong opinion that I will voice even though I've only ever heard about it from CNN!" don't bother. If I want frighteningly uninformed opinions about major topics, I'll talk to my mother about gay rights.

That's amazing, within 14 minutes you read my response, found the transcript in Arabic, determined that the previous translation was incorrect, and then wrote a two paragraph response to my post. `It's no wonder that you are a super secret govement agent. I bet your also a millionaire and you have a very attractive girlfriend that lives in Canada.

skeleton_pirate
05-14-2007, 07:04 PM
That's amazing, within 14 minutes you read my response, found the transcript in Arabic, determined that the previous translation was incorrect, and then wrote a two paragraph response to my post. `It's no wonder that you are a super secret govement agent. I bet your also a millionaire and you have a very attractive girlfriend that lives in Canada.

Really? inappropriate personal attacks that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic? I guess you showed me!

A) It wasn't that long... and I didn't have to learn the language in the meantime.
B) Never said I was a super secret government agent. In fact, I already said exactly what it was that I do for a living. If it was secret, and I told you, I'd probably be in a lot of trouble.
C) I'm not a milionaire. I make very little money. Remember? I work for the government. If I were a millionaire, would my signature say that I stay at Pop Century or All Stars?
D) My wife objects to the thought that she lives in Canada. See, I also mention my honeymoon in my signature.

Wanna call me fat?

MasterShake
05-14-2007, 07:28 PM
Really? inappropriate personal attacks that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic?

Ah, you mean like.......


Ignorance is bliss people, far be it from me to knock you off your morally superior highground, even if it is precariously balanced on willfull ignorance and lies.


Willful only has one L…..


A) It wasn't that long... and I didn't have to learn the language in the meantime.


Even if you speak perfect Arabic, you had to notice my post, find an Arabic version, read two articles (in two different languages), and then write your paragraph.

As the previous poster stated, we would love to here a real expert translation.


C) I'm not a milionaire. I make very little money. Remember? I work for the government. If I were a millionaire, would my signature say that I stay at Pop Century or All Stars?
D) My wife objects to the thought that she lives in Canada. See, I also mention my honeymoon in my signature.


I just figured these were part of your disguise.

Oh, and millionaire has two L’s. I often make spelling mistakes too, but my education was precariously balanced on willful ignorance and lies.

ASilmser
05-15-2007, 12:38 PM
Thanks guys, you totally helped me argue my point. That article is poorly translated from the Arabic to include the buzzwords that Americans like to hear. Do you speak Arabic well enough to understand the original? Cause I do. Am I supposed to be upset that a political leader gave a speech that called for the destruction of one's enemy during a time of war? Do I think Bush is evil because he calls for the destruction of our enemies?

Ignorance is bliss people, far be it from me to knock you off your morally superior highground, even if it is precariously balanced on willfull ignorance and lies. Honestly, if any of you have ever actually read a book about the subject, I would be more than happy to engage in a meaningful debate. If you're just going to come out with "Well I have a very strong opinion that I will voice even though I've only ever heard about it from CNN!" don't bother. If I want frighteningly uninformed opinions about major topics, I'll talk to my mother about gay rights.


The Israeli/Palestinian conflict has been going on for 60 years in it's modern form, and thousands of years before that. I don't think that we are going to solve it on this board.

The fact is that there are some very smart people who know Arabic and would disagree with your assumption that the translations are incorrect. Either way, You are not going to convince me that this Hamas Mickey mouse character is not calling for

The jews (Zionists) to leave Palestine

The Americans (invaders) to get out of the region

The nations would then become Islamic.

There is even a hint of world-wide islamic rule.

The tool? An AK-47.

You also cannot convince me that there is not a hostility towards western culture in some corners of the islamic world based on, I would argue, a stereotype of our culture as being immoral, excessive, and permissive. I think that groups like hamas and al-qaeda exploit this fear to their own ends.

My original point was, and is, still this:

It is ironic that a group that has used a fear of western culture as a means convincing people that their message is true would then turn around and use a symbol of that culture to deliver their message.

Nothing racist here.

I am probably less informed than you are--I get that. But there are many people who are more informed than you are who would agree with me. Until Hamas stops pushing the notion of Isreal being taken off the map, I think I will remain skeptical of its motives.

Sarangel
05-15-2007, 06:20 PM
Kindly remember to play nice with each other... If you cannot separate the topic from the poster, I'll close the thread.

Sarangel

MasterShake
05-15-2007, 08:23 PM
Kindly remember to play nice with each other... If you cannot separate the topic from the poster, I'll close the thread.

Sarangel

:rolleyes1 :idea: :flower3: