Shooting in Manual Mode with Flash

[KrazyPete]

I was playing around in manual mode last night with my flash last night. I noticed that the light meter in my viewfinder reads the same whether I am using flash or not. So I did a Google search and found out that the camera can't estimate what the flash will do to the scene so it doesn't try. In an automatic mode it will fire pre-flashes to determine the metering. In a manual shooting mode it is recommended that you take a test shot and then adjust.

Is there a better way? I'd like to find a method that would at least get me in the general area of the proper exposure and cut down the number of test shots I have to take (preferably without complex charts or college algebra). :thumbsup2

[Crystal_27]

Well, I don't use a flash. Ever. I shoot all natural light, and adjust my aperture and shutter speed (and ISO) for proper exposure. I'm very anti-flash, so I would recommend closing your flash down, but that's just me. :rolleyes:

[tinksdad]

I shoot manual camera mode and manual flash mode as well. Most flashes can be adjusted, 1/1, 1/2, 1/4 down to 1/64 or even 1/128 power on the better models. The best way is to use a light meter and set the shutter speed to about 1/125 or so (no higher than your flash sync speed) and then use the aperture to control the amount of light hitting your subject.

If you don't have a light meter, then start at f/8 and then chimp to find the best exposure.

Using a flash will stop the action (if there is some) and the shutter speed will have basically no effect on the exposure. The lower the flash power the higher the speed of the flash. You can actually catch drips of water or bursting balloons using it. Try it and experiment!!

Balancing the flash with natural light will give you some very natural shots and often add something that shooting in natural light alone will not be possible, like someone in a sunset behind them.


Check the Strobist. Great stuff and very interesting. (http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html)

[tinksdad]

Well, I don't use a flash. Ever. I shoot all natural light, and adjust my aperture and shutter speed (and ISO) for proper exposure. I'm very anti-flash, so I would recommend closing your flash down, but that's just me. :rolleyes:

On camera flash is bad (for the most part)!! Flat light, harsh shadows. But off camera flash can give your shots some interesting light that brings out texture and makes use of shadows in a artistic way.

[handicap18]

With the technology in todays dSLR's I don't bother shooting manual with a flash. Too time consuming to learn to get it right. I'll usually use a diffuser to cut down the harshness of the light or at least bounce the flash when i can.

I almost always use Program when taking flash pictures. But most of the time the pics I take with the flash are duing family gatherings that are indoors and are candids so its not really necessary to worry about manual. When I do portraits of the kids I'll just use Aperture priority set to the sharpest f/stop on the lens and adjust the flash power from there.

[MarkBarbieri]

Most of the time I use on-camera flash, it's bright and sunny and I'm filling in shadows.

When I'm shooting in low light, I prefer to bounce the flash when possible or move it off of the camera when I can't bounce. Sometimes in doors I'll switch to manual to control depth of field and maximize shutter speed and then let the auto-exposure on the flash pick whatever it thinks it needs.

[Lizziejane]

I'm sorry to hijack this thread, and please pardon my ignorance - but what's the difference between strobe lighting and speedlites? I've been avoiding the on-camera flash like the plague and would like to get "something" better but I haven't a clue where to start.

[jann1033]

great link tinksdad:thumbsup2 thanks....lighting is my next giant 20 ft hurdle to claw my way over:rotfl2:

[tinksdad]

I'm sorry to hijack this thread, and please pardon my ignorance - but what's the difference between strobe lighting and speedlites? I've been avoiding the on-camera flash like the plague and would like to get "something" better but I haven't a clue where to start.

Speedlites are the smaller ones that are commonly attached to the hot shoe of the camera. Strobes are thought of as a off camera flash that is triggered by the camera and are usually manual all the way, no TTL of any kind. Bigger with lots of watt second power!!

[tinksdad]

great link tinksdad:thumbsup2 thanks....lighting is my next giant 20 ft hurdle to claw my way over:rotfl2:

It is!! I'm working my way over the hurdle now, but it's painful......

Actually, it's a lot of fun. Light is light, and learning how it works is pretty amazing to me. Flashes can be predictable in many ways and if we learn how to control them, it makes us more versatile photographers.

[Lizziejane]

Speedlites are the smaller ones that are commonly attached to the hot shoe of the camera. Strobes are thought of as a off camera flash that is triggered by the camera and are usually manual all the way, no TTL of any kind. Bigger with lots of watt second power!!

Ok, making sense so far. But what is TTL? sorry, I know I'm asking lots of silly questions.

[handicap18]

Speedlites are the smaller ones that are commonly attached to the hot shoe of the camera. Strobes are thought of as a off camera flash that is triggered by the camera and are usually manual all the way, no TTL of any kind. Bigger with lots of watt second power!!

Not necessarily true. I know a few professionals who refer to any flash thats not a popup as a strobe and in England they refer to them as strobes not speedlights. Though the big lights that you refer to are never thought of as speedlights.

Though now that I've re-read your post, you do say commonly, so I guess that pretty much covers it.

But to the person that asked, if your looking for a flash other than the popup (which is good as fill flash), then you'd be looking for a speedlight (Nikon has the SB-400, SB-600, & SB-800,,, Canon's is somthing like the 430 & 530 I believe, I don't know what letters are associated with it).

[handicap18]

Ok, making sense so far. But what is TTL? sorry, I know I'm asking lots of silly questions.

Through The Lens. It gets feedback through the camera's computer to judge the distance coming in and light coming in through the lens to help it get the correct light.

[jann1033]

Not necessarily true. I know a few professionals who refer to any flash thats not a popup as a strobe and in England they refer to them as strobes not speedlights. Though the big lights that you refer to are never thought of as speedlights.

Though now that I've re-read your post, you do say commonly, so I guess that pretty much covers it.

But to the person that asked, if your looking for a flash other than the popup (which is good as fill flash), then you'd be looking for a speedlight (Nikon has the SB-400, SB-600, & SB-800,,, Canon's is somthing like the 430 & 530 I believe, I don't know what letters are associated with it).
unless you look at a Metz, then it's a mecablitz( hope i spelled that right);) if you are buying a flash check out the metz 58,( my drool inducing one hub is buying me for anniversary) canon's are i think 580( new one maybe 11) and 430?

[KrazyPete]

There's a lot of good information here. I'm about to start the Strobist course in flash photography. :thumbsup2

Is it the consensus that when using a flash in full manual mode you just have to fire off test shots until you find the exposure you want? No tips for estimating how many stops you may be picking up with the flash (maybe based on the flash power and distance to the subject or something)?

[boBQuincy]

I was playing around in manual mode last night with my flash last night. I noticed that the light meter in my viewfinder reads the same whether I am using flash or not. So I did a Google search and found out that the camera can't estimate what the flash will do to the scene so it doesn't try. In an automatic mode it will fire pre-flashes to determine the metering. In a manual shooting mode it is recommended that you take a test shot and then adjust.

Is there a better way? I'd like to find a method that would at least get me in the general area of the proper exposure and cut down the number of test shots I have to take (preferably without complex charts or college algebra). :thumbsup2

Flash units have guide numbers that relate to how much light power they can produce, for a Canon 30D the GN for the built-in flash is 13/43 (meters/feet) at ISO 100. The GN = f-stop X flash-to-subject distance, so in this case one setting would be f/4.3 at 10 feet for ISO 100. This should give close enough exposure to start with.

The shutter speed does not matter with a flash (high speed sync is an exception) as long as it is slow enough so the shutter is fully open when the flash fires. For most Canon SLRs this is 1/200 or slower.

[Geoff_M]

With the technology in todays dSLR's I don't bother shooting manual with a flash. Too time consuming to learn to get it right.It's really not that hard, and there are often advantages to using manual. There are also a couple of BIG advantages:
1) Using manual allows you to control how much of the ambient light shows up in your image. At shutter speeds close to the flash sync speed, the effects of the ambient light will be minimized. In a large room, this can result in properly exposed subjects and very dark backgrounds. If you slow the shutter down, this will allow more of the ambient light to be captured and can lighten the backgrounds so it doesn't look like you're in a cave.

2) If you're shooting indoor sports (or other moving objects), you want the shutter speed to be as close to the flash sync speed as possible. If you don't and let the "auto" mode select 1/60 sec, you'll often get "ghosting" of the players from the player movement during that "long" period the shutter is open due to the ambient light.


If you're shooting in a room that requires flash with a TTL flash system, there really shouldn't be much need for "test photos". The only danger is if the ambient light is too bright or you're using very long exposures, which if it were then you wouldn't need a flash in the first place!

[tinksdad]

It's really not that hard, and there are often advantages to using manual. There are also a couple of BIG advantages:
1) Using manual allows you to control how much of the ambient light shows up in your image. At shutter speeds close to the flash sync speed, the effects of the ambient light will be minimized. In a large room, this can result in properly exposed subjects and very dark backgrounds. If you slow the shutter down, this will allow more of the ambient light to be captured and can lighten the backgrounds so it doesn't look like you're in a cave.

2) If you're shooting indoor sports (or other moving objects), you want the shutter speed to be as close to the flash sync speed as possible. If you don't and let the "auto" mode select 1/60 sec, you'll often get "ghosting" of the players from the player movement during that "long" period the shutter is open due to the ambient light.


If you're shooting in a room that requires flash with a TTL flash system, there really shouldn't be much need for "test photos". The only danger is if the ambient light is too bright or you're using very long exposures, which if it were then you wouldn't need a flash in the first place!

Good post Geoff!! Some call this "Dragging the Shutter" and you can achieve some very nice shots by balancing the ambient with the flash.

If you're interested, heres a pretty good explanation of the process. (http://www.planetneil.com/faq/dragging-the-shutter.html)

[Groucho]

I'm pretty sure that "speedlight" is just Nikon's term for a flash unit and some people consider it a generic term, not unlike "kleenex" but not as widely used. I've certainly not heard of a "speedlight" for a Pentax/Canon/Minolta/etc.

Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!

[MarkBarbieri]

I'm pretty sure that "speedlight" is just Nikon's term for a flash unit and some people consider it a generic term, not unlike "kleenex" but not as widely used. I've certainly not heard of a "speedlight" for a Pentax/Canon/Minolta/etc.

I'm pretty sure you're right. Canon would never use a silly term like "Speedlight" for their flashes. They call them "Speedlite" instead.

[Groucho]

Actually, for the hell of it, I checked Wikipedia (knowing that it's not the end-all be-all of knowledge) and it's possible to quote the entire article pretty easily.

"Speedlight is the brand name used by Nikon Corporation for their photographic flash units. Nikon competitor Canon uses the similar name Speedlite for their flashes."

So, err, yeah. It's just a brand name for a flash. If we're talking flashes on a generic level, it's probably not appropriate to use the term.

I did find the following from an O'Reilly book: Another common term is speedlight, probably created by anxious marketeers wanting consumers to disregard the lengthy period required by their products to recharge between flashes. Also, from here (http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography//hardwares/classics/nikonf4/flash/index.htm): "Speedlight" is a term Nikon used to classify their own flash units, it is just a brand name/business labels and doesn't mean anything at all, similarly, the term "ringlight" for the Nikon macro-flash is also a very-Nikon term; other camera manufacturer does the same, for an example, Canon's version in terming theirs as speedlite as "speedlite" and/or "modulite" for macro-flash series, etc.

It looks like Nikon's first speedlight was the SB-1, introduced in 1969, the earliest reference to a Canon one that I can find is from 1973. Without any further info, I'd have to say that Canon cribbed the term. :)

[jann1033]

I'm pretty sure you're right. Canon would never use a silly term like "Speedlight" for their flashes. They call them "Speedlite" instead.
obviously who ever started Canon had a problem spelling since they forgot an "n" in the company name
;)

[handicap18]

... So, err, yeah. It's just a brand name for a flash. If we're talking flashes on a generic level, it's probably not appropriate to use the term....

Well, you could use the term since it just describes a hotshoe flash unit. Just so happens that the 2 biggest camera makers (or dSLR makers or most known makers, what ever term you'd like to use or substitute companies for makers) use the same word that is said the same just spelled differently.

Guess we just have to be sure the appropriate member is spelling the word according to thier camera's brand name. Pentax, Sony and Olympus users, however, are not allowed to use the word, they must type out hot-shoe flash unit. Thus making a distinction between the on camera pop-up flash and a seperate piece of equiment.

I hereby set forth this motion. All in favor say I.

[handicap18]

obviously who ever started Canon had a problem spelling since they forgot an "n" in the company name
;)

Yah, but really, shouldn't it be Cannin. Who pronounces it Can-on. Gutta love the English language..... NOT!

Going to Merrium-Websters Dictionary for a pronunciation they have it listed weird. Either that or its been so long since I've been in school that I don't know my dictionary. Could be just an html code issue. :confused3

Main Entry: can·on
Pronunciation: 'ka-n&n

dictionary.com has this:
can·on1 [kan-uhn]

[ktulu]

http://www.canon.com/about/mark/origin.html

[Groucho]

Well, you could use the term since it just describes a hotshoe flash unit. Just so happens that the 2 biggest camera makers (or dSLR makers or most known makers, what ever term you'd like to use or substitute companies for makers) use the same word that is said the same just spelled differently.

Guess we just have to be sure the appropriate member is spelling the word according to thier camera's brand name. Pentax, Sony and Olympus users, however, are not allowed to use the word, they must type out hot-shoe flash unit. Thus making a distinction between the on camera pop-up flash and a seperate piece of equiment.

I hereby set forth this motion. All in favor say I.
I can't agree, especially that apparently the original of the term "speedflash" refers to its ability to flash without a long pause inbetween, or without switching one-time-use flashbulbs. Even onboard flashes nowadays would certainly qualify.

I will, however, submit that this might be the most inane and insignificant debate in history. :)