Infant Fares on Southwest...

[fterie4u]

Does anyone know or has anyone used the infant fares on Southwest? I was reading about them on their website but they do not mention what the discount is. We are going to WDW in October and are bringing our dd who will be 18 months at the time. We are trying to decide if we should get a seat for her or just hold her. At the moment, she hates her carseat and would rather be held and play on someone's lap.
My parents, brother and his fiancee are coming with us as well so we have plenty of available laps!

What has been your experience? Thanks!

[freckles and boo]

In my experience (not with Southwest specifically, mind you) infant fares are typically discounted full fares, which can cost much more than the cheaper adult fares. It would probably be less expensive to just find the best SW fare you can and buy a ticket for her. We always bought seats for our children when they were infants. I am not judging those who don't, but take-offs, landings and turbulence are much safer for kids when they are fastened up. My kids did better overall in their own carseats. They just assumed they had to be buckled up in the airplane because they were buckled up in our car.

[ShawnaF]

Flew on Southwest MANY times - if the child is under 2, you can have them ride as a lap child - that's free. HIGHLY recommend doing that. We did that up until our daughter turned 2 and now we keep her in the carseat and she sleeps on the plane. Other question - could her carseat be becoming uncomfortable? Wondering because it was night and day with ours when we got her new carseat.

[labst60]

In my experience (4 RT flights from PHL-MCO in the past 2 years) Internet and DING fares have always been signficantly cheaper than the Infant Fare. The advantage of the infant fare (or so I was told by an agent at one point) is that it is fully refundable up until check-in - which means you can change your mind about the seat and still get your money back up until that point.

If you can get a good Internet or DING fare - I'd recommend the seat for your child - even if you decide to check the carseat. For us, the RT fares have always been less than $100 and worth every last penny just to give DD her own space -- and us a little extra room- she even slept with her head on my lap and her body in her seat. I'm sure you'll get lots of opinions on safety, etc - but you know your DD best and you know what will be best with your family - good luck and enjoy your trip!

[MinnieGi]

I have always come up with good SW fares, Ding! or sale that is cheaper than the so called "infant" fare. To us it is so worth having a seat for the baby. No one in our family now qualifies as a baby, but when they did it was wonderful for the extra room. Even if our baby did not sit the whole flight in his chair it was great to be able to place him in there while getting snack/activity for older child. I also think it helped during take-off and landing being in his own familiar seat.

[danielle782001]

Can only access the infant rate by calling but the first response is correct... the discount is only on a full-rate. It is cheaper just to get an adult rate from the interent. Get the seat if you can afford it!! The baby is more likely to be restful and will more much safer!!!

[dopeysgirl]

thought id chime in....as someone mentioned, youll get lots of opinions so you just need to consider them all, but ultimately youll know whats best for your child. that being said, my family ALWAYS flys sw (cheapest fair from MD to MO, where the inlaws are) and they always have an early, cheap, direct flight to mickeys house too! anyway, we never bought a seat until the kids officially turned 2. take off, landing, and turbulence wouldve sent them into a tailspin so we wouldve taken them out of the seat and moved them to our laps anyway to quiet the screams, so why not just start them out on your laps and save the $? besides, what safer seatbelt then a mommy's deathgrip bear hug? as i said this is just what our family did....but whatever you decide, be sure to bring lots of goldfish and activities to entertain!

[dhardawa]

Buy her a seat and use her car seat. It is WAY safer for her. Nothing can ruin a vacation like an injured or killed child due to turbulence or an emergency landing. In a situation like that, you physically can not hold on to her and she will fly around the cabin. Everything on a plane is strapped down. Even the coffee pots are strapped down. This is done for a reason.

[tjmw2727]

It's not required but both the FAA and the American Academy of Pediatrics recommend using a CRS for children until the 40lb mark on the aircraft. That was enough for us to purchase a seat for our children even when they were under two.

Do some reading online and make a decision you are comfortable with. Lots of babies fly on laps and do fine but it wasn't a chance we were willing to take.

As mentioned prior the ding or sale fares on SWA are usually much less than the infant fares so that's what we always did. Even on the legacy carriers the regular internet fares are cheaper than the 1/2 price infant fares.

Here is the info from SWA website regarding carseats:
"Proper use of a child restraint device (CRD) enhances child safety on aircraft. For this reason, Southwest Airlines and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) strongly recommend that infants and small children who weigh under 40 pounds be secured in an appropriate CRD when traveling by air."

And the link to the full page on traveling with children from SWA:
http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/infants.html#crd

HTH
TJ

[tjmw2727]

I forgot to mention that if you do purchase the infant fare or decde to lap sit a child under two make sure you have the childs birth certificate. SWA will require this to prove the child is eligible to fly for free on a lap or at the infant fare. In my experience they are very strict in requiring this.

TJ

[jmay127]

We never bought a seat when ds was under 2 but always took the car seat to the gate with us. If they had empty seats they let us take it on the flight and ds basically had a free seat. If the flight was full we just checked the seat at the gate instead. But this was all pre 9/11.

[bumbershoot]

When we asked them, they said it was half off the full refundable price. Which is always more than even though $99 fares, and definitely more than the Ding fares, which I've only recently discovered.

[HelenePA]

I called once and each WAY was 129$ from Philly to MCO... we just bought him a seat at 49$ each way... MUCH cheaper than their "low price infant fares"!

[skjuls]

We never bought a seat when ds was under 2 but always took the car seat to the gate with us. If they had empty seats they let us take it on the flight and ds basically had a free seat. If the flight was full we just checked the seat at the gate instead. But this was all pre 9/11.


This is still the case. As long as there are empty seats then SW will let you do this!

[tjmw2727]

This is still the case. As long as there are empty seats then SW will let you do this!

Actually I wouldn't count on this with SWA at least that hasn't been the case recently. With SWA because of the way they board they will not let you bring the carseat onboard if you haven't purchased a seat for the child. The reason acc'd to the FA is that they never know how full the aircraft will be or how the seating will go so they can't assume there will be an empty seat next to you.

If a ticketed passenger needs the seat you took for the infant it takes too long to uninstall the seat and bring it off the aircraft to gate check it. SWA likes a quick turn around and this causes delay.

So while you could get lucky once in a while, if you want to be sure of a seat for your child the best option is to purchase one.

TJ

[skjuls]

Actually I wouldn't count on this with SWA at least that hasn't been the case recently. With SWA because of the way they board they will not let you bring the carseat onboard if you haven't purchased a seat for the child. The reason acc'd to the FA is that they never know how full the aircraft will be or how the seating will go so they can't assume there will be an empty seat next to you.

If a ticketed passenger needs the seat you took for the infant it takes too long to uninstall the seat and bring it off the aircraft to gate check it. SWA likes a quick turn around and this causes delay.

So while you could get lucky once in a while, if you want to be sure of a seat for your child the best option is to purchase one.

TJ

This is true but Southwest told me that if there was an empty seat then you could use your carseat. They told me that when I was making arrangements for my son.

I don't know why Southwest wouldn't know if the flight would be full or not. Sometimes, it's pretty obvious.

Also, once they take your boarding pass, some people check their car seats. So there is no way for a flight attendant to know if you paid for a seat for your child or not. Even though my son is three, they always ask me once I board (I preboard) and have him settled in if I bought him his seat. Yes, I did but since my boarding pass is gone I don't have any proof.

[NotUrsula]

The key with SWA is that the flight has to be non-stop for your itinerary, and significantly undersold. We're talking half-empty, not with a few seats left. There is always the possibility that there will be last-minute walkups, standbys, or passengers re-routed from another delayed flight.

IME, if you insist on trying for an open seat on a SWA flight that is more than about 60% sold, you will have to wait and board last, so that the FA will know if there is room for the seat BEFORE you take it onboard.

Oh, and about the BP. You don't have proof, but you have ID -- if there are more warm bodies than they are supposed to have, they will check it against the manifest of BP's checked in.

[skjuls]

I never used that option because my son was always a lap child.

I wish they would give us something if my son had a boarding pass because they always ask if I paid for his seat.

I don't want to be responsible holding up the plane for them to check the manifest if they don't believe me. My son is 3 so he has to have a ticket. I think they assume he's under two.

I always preboard and they only question me after 30 people have already boarded.

I have seen people bring their car seat on board and then later check it when there isn't any seats.

The policy of having those who want this option doesn't appear to be consistent.

[KTMEMOMMY]

Another point to consider if you're flying and want to have your child strapped into her carseat- whether the carseat itself FAA approved. We had given up on the lapbaby idea by the time my youngest dd was about 1 and a half; she was just too active and squirmy to be held on a lap for that long but could manage better in her own seat. We bought her a seat and brought the carseat onboard. On our flight to MCO it wasn't an issue but on the return flight the FA checked the labels on the seat and said it wasn't FAA approved for flying and they would have to stow it until we landed. They didn't check on the way down, and this is the first and only time that it happened that way, but I'm pretty sure it was Southwest (that's almost always what we fly).

Just FYI

Lisa

[skjuls]

Another point to consider if you're flying and want to have your child strapped into her carseat- whether the carseat itself FAA approved. We had given up on the lapbaby idea by the time my youngest dd was about 1 and a half; she was just too active and squirmy to be held on a lap for that long but could manage better in her own seat. We bought her a seat and brought the carseat onboard. On our flight to MCO it wasn't an issue but on the return flight the FA checked the labels on the seat and said it wasn't FAA approved for flying and they would have to stow it until we landed. They didn't check on the way down, and this is the first and only time that it happened that way, but I'm pretty sure it was Southwest (that's almost always what we fly).

Just FYI

Lisa

Yes, also not all booster seats are approved. SW only approves one. I have the new seat belt system that the FAA approved several months ago so I don't have to carry the car seat on and off the plane.

[DISNEYFOS]

Since 9/11, I'm not sure you can really rely on an empty seat for your carseat..Less flights are scheduled and therefore most flights are at capacity. From experience its pretty rare to have even middle seats free these days.

I'm not sure about Southwests infant fares but in the past when Delta and American offered them, they were really 1/2 off what my ticket was. I never had to pay 1/2 off full fare ticket. But alas, they no longer offer it on the major airlines..and Southwest doesn't operate much out of Boston.

As for safety and lap children. The FAA does not require a seat. The only reason they don't is because of the argument if they do require seats for infants, more families will choose to drive instead...Driving is much more dangerous than flying statistically. Its not because they think you will be able to hold on to your child during an accident.

The "logic" used in the current policy is that requiring a seat to reduce the injuries/fatalities on aircraft would raise the statistics of driving related injuries/fatalities and not worth the amount of injuries/fatalities it would reduce (because air related accidents are more rare).

I think its just scary how they play the statistics, with children for goodness sake.

[NotUrsula]

Yes, also not all booster seats are approved. SW only approves one.

SWA doesn't approve or disallow any seat, they are following FAA regulations on allowed seats.

Technically, *NO* booster seat is approved for aircraft use, but that rests on the FAA's definition of a booster seat. Regardless of what the mfr. calls the seat, the FAA only considers it a "booster seat" if it lacks an integral upper-body harness. If the harness is removable and it is approved for aircraft use only with the harness in place, then the stickers will note that.

The wording of the sticker is mandated by US Federal law and does NOT mention the FAA by name. It reads (in red lettering): ""This restraint is certified for use in motor vehicles and aircraft."

[skjuls]

SWA doesn't approve or disallow any seat, they are following FAA regulations on allowed seats.

Technically, *NO* booster seat is approved for aircraft use, but that rests on the FAA's definition of a booster seat. Regardless of what the mfr. calls the seat, the FAA only considers it a "booster seat" if it lacks an integral upper-body harness. If the harness is removable and it is approved for aircraft use only with the harness in place, then the stickers will note that.

The wording of the sticker is mandated by US Federal law and does NOT mention the FAA by name. It reads (in red lettering): ""This restraint is certified for use in motor vehicles and aircraft."

Sorry I should have said FAA, since we are being so technical. I think most us of know the FAA has to approve this, hence the FAA approved labels. Sheesh!!!

But you have to mention that some flight attendants do not know all the regulations about car seats on planes even if it says it is approved. Although, I have yet to be questioned about the use of the CARES system. It is approved but fairly new.

From SW:
Approved Child Restraint Devices

Convertible-type car seats designed for forward or backward installation in a forward-facing aircraft seat:
Many of these carry the FMVSS.213 insignia and/or language indicating that they are "approved for use in motor vehicles and on aircraft."
Any CRD manufactured between January 1, 1961 and February 25, 1985, must have the following label: "This child restraint device conforms to all applicable federal motor vehicle safety standards."
Any CRD manufactured since February 26, 1985, must have both of the following labels in red lettering: "This child restraint device conforms to all applicable federal motor vehicle safety standards" and "This restraint is certified for use in motor vehicles and aircraft."
Harness-type devices approved by the FAA:
At this time, the FAA has approved only the AmSafe Aviation CARES, which is appropriate for children weighing between 22 and 44 pounds.
The AmSafe Aviation CARES must have a label indicating "FAA Approved in Accordance with 14CFR 21.305(d), Approved for Aircraft Use Only."
Century Breverra Approved Booster Seat:
The Century Breverra Booster Seat has a high back with shoulder straps and a five-point attach shield, which can be properly installed for aviation applications.
At this time, only the Century Breverra Booster Seat bearing a red FMVSS.213 safety label that reads "approved for use in motor vehicles and on aircraft" may be used on Southwest Airlines flights.
NOTE: No other booster seats may be used during any phase of flight, even if they bear approval labels

[tjmw2727]

This is true but Southwest told me that if there was an empty seat then you could use your carseat. They told me that when I was making arrangements for my son.

I don't know why Southwest wouldn't know if the flight would be full or not. Sometimes, it's pretty obvious.

Also, once they take your boarding pass, some people check their car seats. So there is no way for a flight attendant to know if you paid for a seat for your child or not. Even though my son is three, they always ask me once I board (I preboard) and have him settled in if I bought him his seat. Yes, I did but since my boarding pass is gone I don't have any proof.

I don't doubt what SWA told you but my personal real world experience is different. 99% of the time they won't let you board with a CRS if you don't have a ticket for the child.

You are right you won't have your BP with you once you have boarded but the FA's have a list of lap babies. They will walk the aircraft to determine where they are in case of emergency and to make sure there is only one lap baby per row. This is likely what they were doing when they asked you about your son - just checking. If they run out of seats then they will start identifying lap babies by name to make sure they are on a lap and not in a seat. If the babies aren't in a carseat then its just a matter of putting them on the parents lap to let the ticketed passenger have the seat.

Having been on more than one flight where too many parents "took" a seat for a lap baby resulting in ticketed passengers with no seats I can say its not a good situation. If those parents had also installed carseats it would have taken a long time. On one flight the FA told us that is why they don't let parents of lap babies board with carseats.

I am not trying to be arugmentative, just trying let those who may read this thread know that you can't count on using a carseat if you haven't purchased a seat for the child.

As far as approved seats - its pretty easy the sticker on the CRS will say this:
"This restraint is certified for use in motor vehicles and aircraft"

Here is a link to some helpful info from the FAA on traveling with children including carseat info and the new CARES harness.

http://www.faa.gov/passengers/fly_children/crs/

TJ

[NotUrsula]

But you have to mention that some flight attendants do not know all the regulations about car seats on planes even if it says it is approved.

True enough, which is why I always carry an up-to-date photocopy of 14 CFR121.311 taped in an envelope on the back of my carseat shell. The law is very clear that no US-licensed airline may deny the use of the carseat for a child who weighs under 40 lbs., if a) you have paid for the seat and b) the sticker is on the carseat and the carseat in in compliance. Having a copy of the law handy has settled the argument more than once, usually when there was a standby passenger who wanted DS' paid-for seat.

I have no idea why SWA has chosen to claim on their website that the 5-pt Breverra is approved while other similar seats are not, but I can tell you that it isn't true in practice. If a seat is approved for use with the integral harness, then the seat can be used, and as far as the FAA is concerned, it is NOT a "booster" under those conditions -- and neither is the Breverra. As an example: the labeling on the "Graco Platinum CarGo Booster" reads: "This child restraint system conforms to all applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards and is certified for use in motor vehicles. It is certified for use in aircraft ONLY when used with the built-in harness. When used as a booster without the harness, this restraint is NOT certified for use in aircraft."

FTR: the federal definition of "booster seat" is found in 49 CFR 571.213, which reads, in part: "Backless child restraint system means a child restraint, other than a belt-positioning seat, that consists of a seating platform that does not extend up to provide a cushion for the child's back or head and has a structural element designed to restrain forward motion of the child's torso in a forward impact. Belt-positioning seat means a child restraint system that positions a child on a vehicle seat to improve the fit of a vehicle Type II belt system on the child and that lacks any component, such as a belt system or a structural element, designed to restrain forward movement of the child's torso in a forward impact. Booster seat means either a backless child restraint system or a belt-positioning seat." (Emphasis mine.)

It was not my intent to pick on anyone. The reason that I challenged the terminology is that it gave the misleading impression that US-based airlines are allowed to decide for themselves what seats they will and will not allow, when that is not true. Their staff may sometimes argue out of ignorance or even arrogance, but the fact is that the FAA is the only authority that gets to decide what child restrainst systems will or will not be allowed into a paid-for berth on a US-licensed commercial aircraft.

In some other countries the airlines *are* given the authority to set their own policies re: carseat use.

[skjuls]

True enough, which is why I always carry an up-to-date photocopy of 14 CFR121.311 taped in an envelope on the back of my carseat shell. The law is very clear that no US-licensed airline may deny the use of the carseat for a child who weighs under 40 lbs., if a) you have paid for the seat and b) the sticker is on the carseat and the carseat in in compliance. Having a copy of the law handy has settled the argument more than once, usually when there was a standby passenger who wanted DS' paid-for seat.

I have no idea why SWA has chosen to claim on their website that the 5-pt Breverra is approved while other similar seats are not, but I can tell you that it isn't true in practice. If a seat is approved for use with the integral harness, then the seat can be used, and as far as the FAA is concerned, it is NOT a "booster" under those conditions -- and neither is the Breverra. As an example: the labeling on the "Graco Platinum CarGo Booster" reads: "This child restraint system conforms to all applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards and is certified for use in motor vehicles. It is certified for use in aircraft ONLY when used with the built-in harness. When used as a booster without the harness, this restraint is NOT certified for use in aircraft."

FTR: the federal definition of "booster seat" is found in 49 CFR 571.213, which reads, in part: "Backless child restraint system means a child restraint, other than a belt-positioning seat, that consists of a seating platform that does not extend up to provide a cushion for the child's back or head and has a structural element designed to restrain forward motion of the child's torso in a forward impact. Belt-positioning seat means a child restraint system that positions a child on a vehicle seat to improve the fit of a vehicle Type II belt system on the child and that lacks any component, such as a belt system or a structural element, designed to restrain forward movement of the child's torso in a forward impact. Booster seat means either a backless child restraint system or a belt-positioning seat." (Emphasis mine.)

It was not my intent to pick on anyone. The reason that I challenged the terminology is that it gave the misleading impression that US-based airlines are allowed to decide for themselves what seats they will and will not allow, when that is not true. Their staff may sometimes argue out of ignorance or even arrogance, but the fact is that the FAA is the only authority that gets to decide what child restrainst systems will or will not be allowed into a paid-for berth on a US-licensed commercial aircraft.

In some other countries the airlines *are* given the authority to set their own policies re: carseat use.


No problem! You have given some good information. I have yet to travel overseas with my little one so don't know what to expect yet. I want to go to Dublin next year so I will have to check up on that.

I love the CARES system, I have the sit n stroll carseat and I travel with my son alone and now I don't have to lug the car seat on the plane.

It makes sense that they wouldn't let you board with a CSR without a boarding pass but I have seen this done numerous times. But they do ask you beforehand if you are checking it, probably I have seen some parents lie??? That's why I get upset when they ask me. My child is not a lap child. He's too big and too old to be a lap child. I am antsy when I travel on a plane with my son since he has autism.

Also, I have seen two lap babies per row. It was originally 3 in this row, but one had to move to another row. The reason was because there were only 5 oxygen masks per the row in front of me.

Lessons learned from traveling with small children.

[bumbershoot]

The FAA does not require a seat. The only reason they don't is because of the argument if they do require seats for infants, more families will choose to drive instead...Driving is much more dangerous than flying statistically. Its not because they think you will be able to hold on to your child during an accident.

The "logic" used in the current policy is that requiring a seat to reduce the injuries/fatalities on aircraft would raise the statistics of driving related injuries/fatalities and not worth the amount of injuries/fatalities it would reduce (because air related accidents are more rare).

I think its just scary how they play the statistics, with children for goodness sake.

I don't find it scary, I find it realistic. Reality is sometimes scary.

The flight attendants I learned this from went further to say that they WANT those children on their flights, BECAUSE they are statistically safer (carseat or not) than being on a long car trip.

[DISNEYFOS]

They are statistically safer only because there are less accidents.

I'm sure they wouldn't "WANT" those children on their flight unrestrained in an actual emergency/accident.

In an accident, its just as dangerous to be sitting on a lap (with the only restraint being arms) in a car as it is on a plane.

Its playing the odds that there will not be an incident... I guess I just don't see why anyone would do that with an infant.

I really feel the FAA and the Airlines need to step up here and change some policies. Infant fares were a good policy..but now it seems they are phasing them out in favor of maximizing their profit.

sorry for being on the soapbox