Photo related... what can my buddy do? Photo illegally used.

[Papa Deuce]

My buddy posted a picture on an intenet forum. He took the picture. Now a national retailer has taken that picture and is using it to advertise 2 products that cost $1000 and $1500 each. They used the photo 3x over 4 pages of catalogs. They did not have permisssion.

I don't know any details other than what I posted above. He's pretty upset. Does he have any legal recourse?

BTW, he also said that this national retailer basically sells items in the $750 - $200,000 range.... so all I can think of is maybe a jeweler? He hasn't provided any other details.

[Master Mason]

Send him here to take a look at what they have to say

http://shutterbug.com/techniques/pro_techniques/0507output/

Does he have orginal files etc for proof? Did he identify it in anyway as his, ie putting that informaton in the exif data, watermarking it?

[JR6ooo4]

I know some pricing is based on distribution numbers of the ad. So of this is a national magazine then get a gooooood lawyer. Hope for a settlement with all costs and lawyers fees added to the settlement figure. So if you are getting 50 grand then the lawyer will not take half...

Mikeeee

[rtphokie]

A certified letter explaining the situation and providing as much detail as possible about where the photo was posted (so they'll know he's serious and not some crank out to extort as much money as possible).

Leave the ball in their court and see what happens. They might come back with a surprising offer just to make the problem go away.

[Papa Deuce]

A certified letter explaining the situation and providing as much detail as possible about where the photo was posted (so they'll know he's serious and not some crank out to extort as much money as possible).

Leave the ball in their court and see what happens. They might come back with a surprising offer just to make the problem go away.


All he did so far was send an email. I know that he plans to send a certified mail. And he saidd he can prove the picture is his by virtue of it being taken in his back yard.

[JR6ooo4]

All he did so far was send an email. I know that he plans to send a certified mail. And he saidd he can prove the picture is his by virtue of it being taken in his back yard.

well that is going to help!

MIkeeee

[photo_chick]

IF it was a digital image look at the EXIF data on the original. It should list the camera it was taken with, the date, etc..... If he enterd the info it might even have his name attached in the file.

[Papa Deuce]

OK, so now I have this link...... he posted the link in another forum.


http://backyardtheater.com/forums/index.php?topic=739.0


He says he has all that EXIF data.

[0bli0]

i had that happen to me last year. i sent the company an invoice for my standard rates for the photos including time. i then called their accounting dept and ultimately an owner and got it sorted. it helps having the raw files/original untouched versions.

good luck!

[AndrewWG]

At a quick glance, the two photos have the same EXIF data at least. Probably his pic, I would guess. He should go after them.

Wish that would happen to me. I need a good financial boost!


Andy

[ktulu]

Since they are using this on their website he can get it removed by filing a DMCA complaint with the company's ISP, which the IP is assigned to:

OrgName: XMission
OrgID: XMIS
Address: 51 E 400 S
Address: Suite 200
City: Salt Lake City
StateProv: UT
PostalCode: 84111-2753
Country: US

Here is the domain name registration:

Domain Name: OPENAIRCINEMA.US
Domain ID: D6819651-US
Sponsoring Registrar: .US REGISTRAR L.L.C.
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
Registrant ID: 38528775
Registrant Name: Open Air Cinema LLC
Registrant Organization: Open Air Cinema LLC
Registrant Address1: 1402 West 400 South
Registrant City: Orem
Registrant State/Province: UT
Registrant Postal Code: 84058
Registrant Country: United States
Registrant Country Code: US
Registrant Phone Number: +1.801802820
Registrant Email: no.valid.email@worldnic.com
Registrant Application Purpose: P1
Registrant Nexus Category: C21
Administrative Contact ID: 38528775
Administrative Contact Name: Open Air Cinema LLC
Administrative Contact Organization: Open Air Cinema LLC
Administrative Contact Address1: 1402 West 400 South
Administrative Contact City: Orem
Administrative Contact State/Province: UT
Administrative Contact Postal Code: 84058
Administrative Contact Country: United States
Administrative Contact Country Code: US
Administrative Contact Phone Number: +1.801802820
Administrative Contact Email: no.valid.email@worldnic.com
Administrative Application Purpose: P1
Administrative Nexus Category: C21
Billing Contact ID: 38528776
Billing Contact Name: Stuart Farmer
Billing Contact Address1: 1402 West 400 South
Billing Contact City: Orem
Billing Contact State/Province: UT
Billing Contact Postal Code: 84058
Billing Contact Country: United States
Billing Contact Country Code: US
Billing Contact Phone Number: +1.801802820
Billing Contact Email: stuart@summercinema.com
Technical Contact ID: 38528775
Technical Contact Name: Open Air Cinema LLC
Technical Contact Organization: Open Air Cinema LLC
Technical Contact Address1: 1402 West 400 South
Technical Contact City: Orem
Technical Contact State/Province: UT
Technical Contact Postal Code: 84058
Technical Contact Country: United States
Technical Contact Country Code: US
Technical Contact Phone Number: +1.801802820
Technical Contact Email: no.valid.email@worldnic.com
Technical Application Purpose: P1
Technical Nexus Category: C21
Name Server: NS1.DOMAINHANDLE.COM
Name Server: NS2.DOMAINHANDLE.COM
Created by Registrar: .US REGISTRAR L.L.C.
Last Updated by Registrar: .US REGISTRAR L.L.C.
Domain Registration Date: Sat Oct 16 03:50:55 GMT 2004
Domain Expiration Date: Mon Oct 15 23:59:59 GMT 2007
Domain Last Updated Date: Mon Oct 23 15:19:22 GMT 2006

Best of luck to your friend!

[Papa Deuce]

Thanks all!

[Papa Deuce]

LOL... so I went and checked the link again. Now someone took that photo from the original company that ( stole? ) the image.... at least on that site they say where they took the photo from.

[polkadotladybug]

Make sure your buddy (or you!) take SCREEN SHOTS of them being used, so they don't take them down before compensating him - and then claim it was never used.

[polkadotladybug]

how do you figure out the EXIF data?? I just did "properties" but didn't see what I thought I was supposed to look for...or at least I don't think I did - LOL!

[Papa Deuce]

Make sure your buddy (or you!) take SCREEN SHOTS of them being used, so they don't take them down before compensating him - and then claim it was never used.


Not me.... And I think he already has.

[polkadotladybug]

Oh I knew it was you - I was just suggesting you do it for him asap but if he did it already then great!

[AndrewWG]

how do you figure out the EXIF data?? I just did "properties" but didn't see what I thought I was supposed to look for...or at least I don't think I did - LOL!

Carol,

It depends on your web browser. If you use Internet Explorer like most people, you can download a free program called Opanda IExif and that will allow you to right click on a photo and view the Exif info (if it exists). Just google "opanda IExif" and download and install it. Works real nice. I think it works for other browsers as well.

Andy

[Groucho]

The Opanda will work with Firefox as well, but a cleaner option (for Firefox only) is the FxIF plug-in, it's a tiny little plug-in that shows the exif data in the properties of any image, without needing to install a complete standalone program like Opanda.

[photo_chick]

Geez, at least do a decent photoshop job if your gonna steal it! Same wrinkles on the screen, same little weed on there.

[Geoff_M]

Step One: Register the image with the US Copyright office. US Copyright law gives the image taker automatic copyright protection upon creation, but if there is a dispute that might lead to damages being awarded, you must register the image before you seek redress. The cost is ~$30 per "submission" (a submission can be a CD full of photos) and only requires a simple form that you can fill out yourself.

EXIF data might help a potential user to contact you if they wish to use it, but as of now the EXIF data offers no legal protection one way or the other.

Step Two: Contact the business and point out the problems and request payment. There are a number of websites that can estimate, based on the use, what a "normal" usage fee would be. If the business refuses to deal with you, contact a lawyer that understands copyright law. Have them send a nice letter with legal letterhead and see what happens.

[Papa Deuce]

Step One: Register the image with the US Copyright office. US Copyright law gives the image taker automatic copyright protection upon creation, but if there is a dispute that might lead to damages being awarded, you must register the image before you seek redress. The cost is ~$30 per "submission" (a submission can be a CD full of photos) and only requires a simple form that you can fill out yourself.

EXIF data might help a potential user to contact you if they wish to use it, but as of now the EXIF data offers no legal protection one way or the other.

Step Two: Contact the business and point out the problems and request payment. There are a number of websites that can estimate, based on the use, what a "normal" usage fee would be. If the business refuses to deal with you, contact a lawyer that understands copyright law. Have them send a nice letter with legal letterhead and see what happens.

Thay are in negotiations as of today I think. I don't think my buddy wants all that much. He's not at all a greedy person.

[Geoff_M]

That's good to know, but sometimes such discussions will lead nowhere. The business will try to claim that since it was posted on the Internet that it is in the "public domain" or they may try and low-ball your friend. This is when the letter from a lawyer can come in handy. They get it, get concerned and show it to their lawyer who will then point out to them that what they did with the image was 100% indefensible in court and they will suggest to the business owner that they come to a mutually agreeable solution post haste.

It's not "greedy" to want to be fairly compensated for usage. My guess is that a standard rate for this image would probably be a couple hundred dollars. Your friend shouldn't feel that because he isn't a "pro" or because he might be flattered that some one thought his work was good enough to use in a catalog that he shouldn't request "a lot" in a settlement.

Here's an example of a quote estimator: Link (http://www.ozimages.com.au/stockpricing/calculator.asp) I plugged in a guess based on what you posted and got a range of $100 - $660 with an average of ~$300 per year. Also tell your friend that he should only license the business to use it, and don't "sell" them the rights to the image.

[ktulu]

Well, to get it removed all he has to do is send a DMCA notice to the guy's ISP, and they are required by law to notify their customer for removal. Their customer could send in a counter claim, but would need to remove the content for 10 days while the counter claim is sent back to the complaintant for rebuttal. Normally it doesn't get to that point, but it's serious enough where that company could have their accounted terminated by their ISP :)