Saturday Night Rant (and Friday too)

[ExRIGuy]

I am beginning to believe that Disney artifically inflates Saturday night points rates, not because demand from us DVC'ers is high, but so they can keep us away to rent to cash paying non-DVC'ers. Seriously, just looking at a Sat night at HH this summer made me cringe, and when I call for ressies all other nights are booked -- except for Sat nights and some Friday's. So I waitlisted, but I truly believe we are getting deterred from staying in our own homes on Sat nights so Disney can get a ton of cash for them.

[Beach Bunny]

I would love to be able to just stay at the Boardwalk:mad:

[eyeheartgoofy]

I am planning for our next trip and debating on whether or not to use points for Fri and Sat nights - 1 bedroom will be 150 points for sun-thur, but 120 points for Fri and Sat. Kind of tight when you don't have too many points. BUT, I did know this when I bought, so I'm not really ticked about it - just mildly annoyed. Originally, I was planning on avoiding the weekends, but I've discovered that I don't like to move.

[Granny]

I think the best advice is to look at the point charts as weekly requirements. And if you like, you can then think "how nice that they have lower points for the week nights vs the weekend nights"! :)

It's all perspective...and certainly nothing to get steamed about. It's not like they changed the charts after we joined! :confused3

[Amy5000]

I think the best advice is to look at the point charts as weekly requirements.

Granny: What good and zen advice. I'm a newbie and was just starting to get really frustrated as I studied the points charts and started to realize the damage that weekends do to our points. But reading your post made me so much more calm...

until I started to think...if I want to do a weekend get away, I'm screwed b/c I've paid the high points without the benefit of the low points....
Or If I want to add a second weekend onto my stay...

(uh, oh, blood pressure rising, better start deep breathing...)

[dwelty]

IIt's all perspective...and certainly nothing to get steamed about. It's not like they changed the charts after we joined! :confused3


Granny makes a good point. The points were the same as when you bought.
Why complain now? If you think Disney is gouging you on weekend points, why did you buy in the first place?

[Deb & Bill]

Just like other Grannies, Granny is very wise. We do the same, but we add up all the points for the entire stay and average it out by night. Not nearly so bad that way. Besides, we bought our points to stay in our DVC resorts, not to move over to Values or pull extra cash out of our pockets for cash nights.

Just one reason not to invite anyone else to go with you requiring larger accomodations. ;)

[ExRIGuy]

I disagree with the "you knew going in" line. True. But, with that said, you don't mind humongous weekend point rates that deter us from using the resorts so Disney can grab $900 a night for them? Do you think this money is honestly used to offset our costs? I think it's a bit of a slap in the face. Not "angry" mind you, just frustrated. The points charts should reflect OUR demand habits, no?

[keishashadow]

It's probably the only reason we still stay in a Deluxe for 2 nights or go offsite to Loews/Universal for a few days.

I've added Saturdays on to a four night weekstay; then moved on somewhere else for 3 nights...get to experience the best of both worlds; we're used to moving.:)

[Starr W.]

I disagree with the "you knew going in" line. True. But, with that said, you don't mind humongous weekend point rates that deter us from using the resorts so Disney can grab $900 a night for them? Do you think this money is honestly used to offset our costs? I think it's a bit of a slap in the face. Not "angry" mind you, just frustrated. The points charts should reflect OUR demand habits, no?

The only weekend points I really choke on are at HH,:scared1: At WDW I have no problem using Fri-Sat points, but usually limit it to 1 of those days per trip. I am not a mover, I like to unpack and stay put.

[rwcmath]

When I saw HHI's point system, I figured that maybe golfers didn't mind paying those prices, since I'm not a golfer, you wouldn't see us on weekends.

I've "bought into" the idea that locals, the Floridians, would just book weekends in WDW if the weekend rates were more in line with weekdays. That does make sense to me. Some of the other point timeshares have a premium price for Sundays as well, I'm glad we don't have that.

rwc

[CarolMN]

...(snip)....until I started to think...if I want to do a weekend get away, I'm screwed b/c I've paid the high points without the benefit of the low points....
Or If I want to add a second weekend onto my stay.......If the weekends were the same as weekdays, the weekdays would have to be higher. Remember the total # of points to rent out the resort for a year can't increase or decrease. Decrease something, then increase something else.

Also, don't you think that everyone would try to do as you are wanting to do re weekend getaway trips or tagging another weekend onto your stay?

Without the differential, demand for weekend days would far exceed availability - everyone who stays a week can't use up two weekends, there just aren't enough of them! It wouldn't surprise me to see NO WEEKEND days available to book at 7 months - even at the larger DVC resorts.

I think DVC has done a good job "handicapping" the inventory (evening out the emand between weekdays and weekends).

ExRIGuy - Disney isn't making "a ton of cash" by renting out the weekends. The lion's share of nights available to the general public for cash come from DVC members who use their points outside the DVC resorts.

Renting out weekend days for cash benefits members who want to use their points for something in the Disney Collection (including cruises) or the Adventurer's or Concerige Collections.

It's much easier to rent Friday and Saturday nights to the general public (they prefer weekends, too, LOL) and DVC has to get cash to pay for the non-DVC options.

If DVC members booked all the weekends, DVC would have to get the cash from weekdays. DVC may not be able to rent the same number of weekdays as easily as it can the weekends so rooms would go empty. That would icrease the number of nights it would take to recover the cash DVC needs to pay for members' non-DVC choices. Eventually, the points to do something besdies a DVC resort would increase beyond what most would be willing to pay, effectively eliminating many of our choices.


Bottom Line: You can't just look at the points for weekends in isolation - they're part of the Grand Scheme of DVC. JMHO. YMMV.

[DisneyHumbug]

The high points required for Fri and Sat sometimes are helpful. For instance, I want to plan a trip and I'm well within 11 months, even 7 months. Chances are, I can snag a Fri and Sat night.

[WolfpackFan]

I look at it this way - we usually drive to WDW on Saturday and don't arrive until 4:00 or so. I would hate to use points for that day anyway, since we wouldn't be at the resort that long. Plus it gives us a chance to experience a moderate for one night before moving in for the week at our home. So it doesn't really bother me that the points are higher for Saturday nights.

[dis-happy]

I think that CarolMN's post hits the nail on the head.

One other facet of this equation: Disney gets more money from the DVCers as well. Oftentimes people will spend cash (as opposed to points) to stay at a value or mod on weekends, or book a DVC room with the member discount. I've always been impressed with Disney's ability to get people to part with their money!!!

[kimberh]

Here is what has been happening to me. When we take the married children we need a two bedroom. We usually check in on Thursday out on Monday. I am dying with the point total. This is happening on every vacation with the family. The DGC have school, everyone else has to work, so no one can take much time off of work. When we come by ourself, we can book the Sun -Fri check out. Works great. On the two bedroom trips, the cash price has not been available for member discount or not available at all. The points for one night in a two bedroom for Fri or Sat night can be 5 nights in a Studio for certain seasons. It is unreal. For those that will come on and say that I knew this, no I did not! I bought a resale... found all this out after the fact. I do wish they were not so high either. I do try to look at the whole picture as Granny said, I love my DVC, just wish the weekend points were lower.

[Amy5000]

CarolMN: Of course your post made perfect sense and it pointed out many of the realities that I like to ignore...like wouldn't everyone like to snag an extra weekend. Ok...I'm back to my zen view of DVC...

Amy

[dianeschlicht]

Carol and Granny are absolutely correct. Now as for how to plan...Since we live quite a distance from WDW, we usually take a ;couple of 10 day plus trips a year. By arriving on a Sunday and staying through the next weekend and leaving the following Tuesday or Wednesday, we get a 10-11 night trip with just one weekend's worth of points. Sometimes we conserve even more by having guests with us in a 2 bedroom lock off the first 5 nights, then switching down to the 1 bedroom portion of the lock-off after our guests leave. That means we are in the cheaper point digs for Friday and Saturday night. When we come without guests, we sometimes arrive on a Saturday, spend that night in a studio, and then switch to a 1 bedroom on Sunday and stay there for a week.

When we first purchased 10 years ago, we did exactly what Granny proposed...We looked at it as a week at a time.

[tjkraz]

Forgive me if someone else pointed this out but I think there's a flaw in the logic that it helps Disney to have the high weekend points.

AFAIK, there are three ways that a DVC room can be available for cash:

1. DVC member 25% discount. The rate is only offered when the resort is not projected to be at full capacity, which probably happens a fair amount of time on the weekends. However, the net profit from the transaction is shown as a credit toward the resort dues for the next year. It's under the category of "Breakage Income."

2. Unbooked DVC rooms 60 days prior to check-in are made available to CRO. Again, profit goes as a credit to member dues.

In both of these scenarios, Disney will earn some sort of service fee (probably more in the case of #2 since CRO is involved), but they don't stand to gain a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. Most of the benefit goes back to the DVC members since their dues are reduced accordingly.

3. The final way Disney gains access to DVC rooms is when a member uses points to trade out of DVC. DVC uses the member's points to set aside DVC resort rooms for cash guests. In this case, it's costing DVC just as much to set aside a room for a Friday / Saturday night as it does a DVC member.

In other words, if a BCV member uses 160 points for a cruise, DVC can then use those 160 points to set aside BCV room(s) for cash guests. But they are subject to the same weighted point tables. That 160 points could allow them to take out of inventory a 2B in Magic Season for 4 weekday nights or just 2 weekend nights (that's only 150 pts actually.)

Under any of these scenarios, I really don't see any great benefit to Disney for the weighted weekend points. And, if the weekends were less, the weekdays would be more. Since I'm content using my points for Sun - Thurs, I'll selfishly say that I'm pretty happy with things the way they are.

[Plutofan]

I believe that having higher weekend points was very thought out by Disney. If all the nights were the same Disney would probably have a lot of single nights that would be hard to sell for cash. By increasing the point requirement for weekends there is a higher chance that two days together would not be booked on points. Disney/DVC would have a much easier time to sell two popular nights together at a discount than just a lot of mixed dates. I would believe that Friday and Saturday nights are probably in higher demand than other nights at non DVC resorts.

[ExRIGuy]

"2. Unbooked DVC rooms 60 days prior to check-in are made available to CRO. Again, profit goes as a credit to member dues."

As to #2, I did not know this, and if you say Disney doesn't somehow profit --and that all the funds, net small service fees, are applied towards dues -- then great.

But, still, let's not ignore reality in the pixie dust Disney fog (which I do buy into, and escape reality in, like many here) -- the points charts ARE out of balance with demand. Some folks have made the comment that lowering weekends would make weekend availability disappear. Others have all the time in the world to go mid-week. I don't, and I pay dues too. It was my underlying understanding when I bought DVC and knew that points charts were fluid that Disney would strive to equalize vacancy rates. Surely, there is a number between 33 and 99 points (HH 2br Sat v Sun night) that would equalize vacancy rates, and let those of us who aren't as free as a bird mid-week off-peak enjoy a weekend stay. Again, when the CM says to me "which Saturday night do you want" as to HH but "there are no Sun-Thur" nights available, then I say to myself something is wrong with the system. If HH averages a 15% vacancy rate during a particular season, for example, then points should be charted to strive for that number for each day of the week to the extent possible. Right now it's 100% booked weekdays with waiting lists -- all summer! -- and vacant as whatever % it is (sounds like a much lower number from the way the CM described it) on Saturdays. THAT IS NOT THE WAY IT SHOULD BE, NOT PRESUMABLY WITH THE DATA THAT DVC HAS AVAILABLE TO IT. I'm not saying it should be reversed, merely balanced.

[tmk0730]

I think the best advice is to look at the point charts as weekly requirements. And if you like, you can then think "how nice that they have lower points for the week nights vs the weekend nights"! :)

It's all perspective...and certainly nothing to get steamed about. It's not like they changed the charts after we joined! :confused3

This is how we look at it. We look at the point charts for the entire week stay. Since we like to vacation for an entire week. Also, very good point about if the points were low for the weekends some people (I know we would!) stay for two weekends which might mess up availibility. When I look at the charts I just look at the week stay.

[tjkraz]

But, still, let's not ignore reality in the pixie dust Disney fog (which I do buy into, and escape reality in, like many here) -- the points charts ARE out of balance with demand.

No "fog" here. I was simply responding to your allegation that Disney has a financial interest in structuring the points the way they have. I never said that they were properly balanced.

Personally I think there are even more important imbalances currently in the seasons DVC uses. Some room classes are fully booked 11 months TO THE DAY from some early-December dates, yet that period remains in Adventure season. I think that's crazy.

As for the weekdays / weekends, it's difficult to do anything more than speculate. For instance, I tried to get a cash discounted 2B at OKW for a Saturday night during a slow period in early February. There were none offered. That tells me that DVC was expecting 100% occupancy that night.

Certainly there are weekends that will have higher points demand than others, but that doesn't justify throwing the proverbial baby out with the bath water.

The point charts were reorganized one, I believe back in 1996. From what I've been told, during those changes DVC RAISED the weekend point requirements. In lieu of any overwhelming financial justification for making this change, one can only assume it was driven by member booking trends. Whether those trends hold true today is the most debatable subject, IMO. Given that DVC has the ability to change the charts, I assume they will at some point the future to correct inconsistencies in the current system. But at the same time, I don't expect DVC to be willy-nilly in making those changes. More than anything I believe members value consistency. I don't think people would be pleased with a system in which their preferred dates / room costs 120 pts when they buy, then changes to 140 pts a few years later, then down to 130, etc.

[Granny]

I disagree with the "you knew going in" line. True. But, with that said, you don't mind humongous weekend point rates that deter us from using the resorts so Disney can grab $900 a night for them?

No, it has never bothered me a bit. I agree with Carol and others who agree that weekends need to be quite "expensive" to keep the "long weekend reservations" down. I'm sure you are aware that traditional timeshares are sold in weekly increments, and it was this mindset that we used when buying and deciding on how many points to buy. So far we have stayed anywhere from 5 to 13 nights and while we are mindful of the weekends we don't let the point schedule dictate our vacation if we need particular dates.

Do you think this money is honestly used to offset our costs? I honestly don't know. Like I said, I knew what I was getting into, researched it and was aware that at times the weekend nights might be more available since some members (not us) move out of DVC over the weekends or pay cash.

I think it's a bit of a slap in the face. Not "angry" mind you, just frustrated.
Really? I took the title of your thread which includes the word "rant" and figured you were angry. I know I would be angry, not frustrated, if "slapped in the face". But semantics aside, the tone of your post seemed to indicate that you thought Disney was ripping us off. I was just trying to explain why I disagree.

The points charts should reflect OUR demand habits, no?

The point charts probably DO reflect OUR demand habits. In general, people would probably have a higher demand for weekend nights if all points were equal for all nights. So the point schedule does reflect this, and has higher weekend points to discourage a high level of long-weekend-only trips.

Now you might say that they have gone overboard with the weekend night point premium, but that is not how you chose to position your issue. You positioned it as a "Disney is ripping us off" argument and we are just disagreeing.

For what it's worth, I see your point. But I do believe that if they didn't have a steep increase in weekend points then DVC owners living within 200 miles of WDW would make it a frequent weekend destination and cause availability issues in the other direction.

I think the topic is interesting, and worth discussing. Just don't agree with the Greedy Disney premise, though I'm sure that financial considerations are part of the entire equation.

[PamOKW]

While we are lucky to have the option to use our DVC as we chose -- one night, ten nights, whatever -- the basis is to allow one week stays. If points were equal or less for the weekends, DVC discovered that people who lived an easy distance would book weekend stays only. (I know I probably would if I lived there.). It would be very difficult for people to get entire weeks when Fri-Sat were in much bigger demand than the rest of the week.

The idea of adding the whole week together and averaging is how I like to look at. I also look at it that I bought DVC to stay DVC. I'm not sure why this type of thinking hasn't moved into the rental market. Rather than charging "per point" to people who really don't have much of an idea what that "means", why don't people rent weeklong vacations at a price rather than charging "per point"? I never have understood the "per point" pricing to non-DVC'ers.

[ExRIGuy]

Granny:

1. I for one would love to be able to take long weekends and would be willing to pay an appropriately balanced point total for such. Can't DVC just adjust Sun and Mon or Thur to appropriately account for that? No? I'd love to do a poll to see who would prefer long weekends versus mid-week stays. As for greedy Disney, in my last post I conceded to the individual who states that Disney doesn't profit from cash reservations that I did not know that was the case. You are a bit late to be making the point, but why not beat it to death? If true, if weekend points are through the roof for purely altruistic reasons, then so be it. Skeptical, I must admit.

2. I'll let you know when I am angry, though I am impressed that you think you know me better than I know myself. Frustration = having a CM tell me that I can have just about any Sat night I want at HH for the summer, a few Fri-Sat night pairings, but in no way shape or form can I do a long weekend until mid-September. Where's the balance in that? Angry, no, let down and frustrated after having spent a lot of money on this "flexible" timeshare, yes.


No, it has never bothered me a bit. I agree with Carol and others who agree that weekends need to be quite "expensive" to keep the "long weekend reservations" down. I'm sure you are aware that traditional timeshares are sold in weekly increments, and it was this mindset that we used when buying and deciding on how many points to buy. So far we have stayed anywhere from 5 to 13 nights and while we are mindful of the weekends we don't let the point schedule dictate our vacation if we need particular dates.

I honestly don't know. Like I said, I knew what I was getting into, researched it and was aware that at times the weekend nights might be more available since some members (not us) move out of DVC over the weekends or pay cash.


Really? I took the title of your thread which includes the word "rant" and figured you were angry. I know I would be angry, not frustrated, if "slapped in the face". But semantics aside, the tone of your post seemed to indicate that you thought Disney was ripping us off. I was just trying to explain why I disagree.



The point charts probably DO reflect OUR demand habits. In general, people would probably have a higher demand for weekend nights if all points were equal for all nights. So the point schedule does reflect this, and has higher weekend points to discourage a high level of long-weekend-only trips.

Now you might say that they have gone overboard with the weekend night point premium, but that is not how you chose to position your issue. You positioned it as a "Disney is ripping us off" argument and we are just disagreeing.

For what it's worth, I see your point. But I do believe that if they didn't have a steep increase in weekend points then DVC owners living within 200 miles of WDW would make it a frequent weekend destination and cause availability issues in the other direction.

I think the topic is interesting, and worth discussing. Just don't agree with the Greedy Disney premise, though I'm sure that financial considerations are part of the entire equation.

[Figment2]

I am a member who does long weekends. I don't care what they cost as I bought DVC to stay DVC (and I don't like to move unless I absolutely have no choice). Friends and & usually go down for 2-3 long weekends every year (arrive Friday night and leave Monday or Tuesday). Plus we stay a week in late October arriving either Friday night or Saturday morning. So we're there over two weekends. I knew going in that weekends are higher but we don't care. How do we manage all these trips? Friends own DVC too so we take turns using points. Oh, and most of our trips are in a 1BR (2BR in Oct) since we love the extra space. I guess I'd rather conserve my vacation days from work more than my points.

I have to agree with others that Disney put the point structure together based on DVC travel habits. I know most members don't do the weekends but that's okay (for them). Too, I have met quite a few FL members who go for long weekends and don't mind the extra points (it is what it is and they bought DVC to stay DVC).

Cyn

[OKWKirt]

I totally agree with PamOKW, and others, that one reason for higher points on weekends is so we can reserve week long stays without weekends being taken for weekend trips. Something else that hasn't really come out is this is not a DVC thing but a timeshare thing. I own three other timeshares and they are all like this. I bet if Dean had replied all of his would be also. One of mine has three different points. The lowest is Mon-Wed, then Sun and Thur are a little higher, and then Fri and Sat the highest. My perfect trip to WDW would be 10 days Sun thru the following Tue with one weekend stay. We don't move out on weekends.