This is pretty sad...I just realized...

[Chicago526]

...that there is no way we could live on just DH's pay. Even if we had all our debt paid off except the mortgage, and cut everything to the bare bones, we'd still be in the hole $250 a month. That's how bad the cost of living is in our area! And our mortgage isn't huge either! That's cuting out EVERYTHING, no vacations, no fun money, no internet at all, no cable at all, no eating out, no home improvements, and no savings (not even retirement or college fund). Just the mortgage, insurance, gasoline, utilities, food, and DH's medication. DH would have to work overtime to bridge the gap, and he can't always get overtime.

I saw one of the SAHM threads and decided to play around with the numbers to see where we stand. I just don't know how people live on one income, at least not in our area. We'd have to sell the house and rent in order to do it, and it would still be paycheck to paycheck each month.

This is depresing! :(

[jckdisneybound]

I admit for me to be a SAHM it's a privilege and a sacrifice. But it's one that we planned for way in advance before we even had our DD. DH is active and we knew that once he transferred that it meant I would have to quit my job and I was making as much as him at the time so we saved and paid bills off. I know we're lucky that when I work it's because I want too not because I have to.

[DawnM]

I am just going to say this....not because I think you should do it, but just because this is what we did......

I worked in CA. We made a good income but we knew that going to one salary would never really cut it unless DH got a good raise.

SO......we MOVED! Going from LA, CA to Charlotte, NC provided us with a sizeable down payment on our house AND the opportunity for me to stay home for a while and to adopt the child we had always wanted to adopt.

So, it is an option to move to a more reasonable area.

Dawn

[Chicago526]

I am just going to say this....not because I think you should do it, but just because this is what we did......

I worked in CA. We made a good income but we knew that going to one salary would never really cut it unless DH got a good raise.

SO......we MOVED! Going from LA, CA to Charlotte, NC provided us with a sizeable down payment on our house AND the opportunity for me to stay home for a while and to adopt the child we had always wanted to adopt.

So, it is an option to move to a more reasonable area.

Dawn

Believe me, I've tried to talk DH into it. Not just for cost of living but for other reasons too. Ain't gonna happen!

I wouldn't be opposed to working part time, but given that we do have debt other than the mortgage (car payment and CC debt) and that we'd still need to save for retirement, I'd have to make $14 an hour after taxes working 20 hours a week. I doubt I could get that much.

Ah well. At least I like my job (well, most days!).

[sk!mom]

Your discovery is what many of us have known for some time- If we don't want a very bare bones existence with little savings then we must be a two income family.

[gwcollins71]

I know just how you feel. DH was offered a job in Marion (So IL) in January. I'd have had to quit my job and stay at home if we moved. We crunched the numbers. We'd be living so tightly, we wouldn't make it if any emergency came up. His parent had that happen and it was terrible. Honestly though, in a couple of years we'll be ok. We have most of our CC debt paid now so soon I'll be able to be a full time Mom to my princess: . Good luck and keep saving. It will eventually be ok.

Gretchen

[DawnM]

Ah, well, I can kind of understand. I actually did NOT want to move and still if the opportunity to move back to LA came up.....I would move in a second. DH wouldn't. Actually, we always have the opportunity. DH and I both left fields that ALWAYS have openings in LA, but DH says he will never move back!

So, here we are.

Dawn


Believe me, I've tried to talk DH into it. Not just for cost of living but for other reasons too. Ain't gonna happen!

I wouldn't be opposed to working part time, but given that we do have debt other than the mortgage (car payment and CC debt) and that we'd still need to save for retirement, I'd have to make $14 an hour after taxes working 20 hours a week. I doubt I could get that much.

Ah well. At least I like my job (well, most days!).

[Chicago526]

Ah, well, I can kind of understand. I actually did NOT want to move and still if the opportunity to move back to LA came up.....I would move in a second. DH wouldn't. Actually, we always have the opportunity. DH and I both left fields that ALWAYS have openings in LA, but DH says he will never move back!

So, here we are.

Dawn

The funny thing is that DH is always saying how he hates IL. But he's moved a lot over his lifetime and I think the idea of packing it all in and doing it again is just too much for him. I think there are some other issues too, but nothing I want to get into her. Me, I'm perfectly happy to move just about anyplace in the US. Maybe in a few years the idea of moving won't be so bad.

I actually didn't play with the numbers because I specificly wanted to quit working, I just saw a SAHM thread and decided to see how the numbers would work out for us. Turns out they don't! It wouldn't be so bad if we were willing to live off of DH's OT pay, but I don't want to ever do that, OT can't be counted on. It's often available but it's never 100% guaranteed. So if I budget just on his base pay, we come up short.

[wdwfamilyinIL]

We have been living off of dh's income for about three years while I have been going to school. We had to go down to one job in order for me to get any type of grant for schooling. If you looked at our numbers you would be in awe how we make it, the one thing that this has taught me is its amazing what you can do when you have no other choice. I never thought we lived very great before, but there were so many extras that I just didn't think about. The biggest perk for me staying home that last few years is how much time I have been able to spend with my children. I worked when my oldest two were babies, and I can't believe all of the little things that I missed....that alone is priceless.

[hsmamato2]

Op,not bashing, Many times people find with a GREAT simplifying of lifestyle,one parent can work and one can stay home, but it usually takes plenty of thought. Obviously,you have more house than you can comfortably pay for,unless you have 2 incomes.
For those of us absolutely committed to staying home with the kids, that means one thing, MOVE. It sounds wierd,and I'm not bashing,but this is how many of us do it,by deliberately living below our means.way below.
When we bought our home, the realtor wanted us to buy WAY higher than we knew we wanted to pay,we set our own limits,and bought accordingly.
But that's absolute comittment,not just happenstance;)
If I had to choose apartment life, or moving out of state to leaving the kids,I'd move.
For someone just sort of thinking about it,it might seem strange,or odd to make this choice. I hope this has answered some of your question,the how/why many of us do it.
It's kind of a mind set,vs a set income level,KWIM?
This does not include every income level,of course, but within a reasonable limit,it can happen for many families.
There are many ways to acheive our goals,once we decide what we really want our lives to be-

[hsmamato2]

Ooh, I forgot, if those numbers are accurate,then it's simple to calculate for you, you are paying for all the "extras" in life, excepting the $250
the paycheck is short.
So the deciding is simple too, is your work fulfilling enough to you to do it for those things? If so, that's fine! If not, maybe it's time to reassess what you can do with your finances as they are....:goodvibes

[DOOM1001]

In South Florida with super high rent and mortgage payments,insurance and taxes many people are flocking to Georgia,Tennessee and North Carolina.

[DisKim]

I can totally relate to your situation. I have 3 children and I am still working which is something I have never wanted to do from day one. The problem is that even taking every possible thing out of our budget, we would still fall short. I have a very affordable mortgage, etc. The problem is that the taxes are staggering in my are and the utilities and car insurance are astronomical as well. I really hope that you are able to work out your situation.

BTW, I really appreciate all the information and advice all the SAHM's give on the budget board. There are really some great ideas here! Hopefully, I will be able to make it work some time soon!

[Maybelle]

I can totally relate. I work part time, and we barely make it. Moving is not an option unless dh could get another job making at least what he is making now and we could buy a cheaper house and find free babysitting, because we'd be leaving our whole support network. New England is VERY expensive! I just got an oil bill for more than $400 and that's with keeping the heat set at 66 during the day, and running the wood stove whenever we are home.

And for the poster above who said just move or do whatever else you have to to stay home...I think that is way too simplistic, and a little unsympathetic. The OP stated in her post that she does not live in an extravagant home, and has looked at the budget without any "extras."

I too live in a VERY modest house. Our mortgage is well below what we would pay for rent in our area for the same, or even less space, and I don't live in the best neighborhood either. For us the situation has to do with dh's company being sold and decreasing benefits while increasing employee contributions which has resulted in a significant decrease in pay.

While I do agree that many folks live beyond their means and then complain they can't make ends meet, and that we have gotten used to never having to do without or make sacrifices in our society, Things are not always as cut and dry as some would seem to think.

I just wanted to let the OP know that I understand where she is coming from...we are in the same boat right now, and I will have to work more next year and put dd in school (she has been homeschooled for the past 4 years) in order to make it.

I agree, it is depressing if you spend too much time dwelling on it. I try to keep counting my blessings and realize how much I do have and then I feel better!

[DawnM]

Now, a question.....

Did you play with the numbers excluding some expenses? Like for me, we were able to cut our food bill by $500 by stopping eating out and me triple couponing and using AngelFoodMinisty.com to get much cheaper food.

Also, did you include things like retail shopping? I have cut out pretty much all retail shopping. We do garage sales and people think we have lots of $$ because I am able to get really nice stuff that the previous owners didn't like or use much. That cut another $200 easily, probably more.

Dawn


The funny thing is that DH is always saying how he hates IL. But he's moved a lot over his lifetime and I think the idea of packing it all in and doing it again is just too much for him. I think there are some other issues too, but nothing I want to get into her. Me, I'm perfectly happy to move just about anyplace in the US. Maybe in a few years the idea of moving won't be so bad.

I actually didn't play with the numbers because I specificly wanted to quit working, I just saw a SAHM thread and decided to see how the numbers would work out for us. Turns out they don't! It wouldn't be so bad if we were willing to live off of DH's OT pay, but I don't want to ever do that, OT can't be counted on. It's often available but it's never 100% guaranteed. So if I budget just on his base pay, we come up short.

[writersblock42]

I am not a SAHM but we live on one income because my husband is going to school full time and trying to finish. I could not live on my income alone if I lived in the school district where I teach, but I live outside of it and drive back and forth and we make ends meet and have a little bit left over. We had to go with a cheaper house, and cut down on our grocery bill a lot. I have one son and a dog.

[DawnM]

I am not saying this because I think you have to stay home. Hope you didnt' misunderstand....

It is just that when we had 2 incomes we just didn't think about cutting costs where I have learned now to cut them.

In fact, even though some days I feel like I will go mad staying home.....I think this 2 years at home has been very good for me in that now, even if I go back to work next school year (school counseling), I will continue as much savings as I can and put the savings toward paying off the house.

I have been so happy to use Dave Ramsey the past 18 months and actually get our cc, adoption and student loans paid off! It was a sacrifice, but we did it! Now we just have the car and our house.

Dawn

Now, a question.....

Did you play with the numbers excluding some expenses? Like for me, we were able to cut our food bill by $500 by stopping eating out and me triple couponing and using AngelFoodMinisty.com to get much cheaper food.

Also, did you include things like retail shopping? I have cut out pretty much all retail shopping. We do garage sales and people think we have lots of $$ because I am able to get really nice stuff that the previous owners didn't like or use much. That cut another $200 easily, probably more.

Dawn

[hinodis]

I am a SAHM. Have been for 19 years. DH works 2 jobs so I can stay home. He started a business on the side years ago and when youngest Dd started school I started doing his office work and estimating. His little side business has become a better income then his "job". Yes, there are alot of sacrifices, he sometimes has to work 12-14 hour days. However, the rewards have been wonderful. I was home where I wanted to be and now my oldest is a freshman in college for pre-med:banana: I always felt they need a parent home just as much when they are older as they do as a baby. Look into starting a business at home. If your in a small town the opportunities are even greater. Good Luck, I hope things work out so you can do what you want and of course go to Disney.

[bettyann29]

I've also thought about being a SAHM but after crunching the numbers decided it just wouldnt work for us.. If we paid off all the credit cards and bills other than our mortgage and just had our mortgage and monthly bills, groceries, etc we could do it but we wouldnt be able to vacation or do the little extras we enjoy so much.. I do dream of one day being able to just work part time though..

[NotUrsula]

DH works 2 jobs so I can stay home. ... Yes, there are alot of sacrifices, he sometimes has to work 12-14 hour days.

See, this is the downside. (Yes, I know that the person who posted that didn't seem to think it was a downside.)

This would definitely be a deal-breaker for my DH. They are his kids, too, and he would HATE it if he worked such long hours and hardly had any time to spend with them. Both of us grew up with VERY involved Dads who spent every spare moment with us, even though we both had Moms who were housewives (and very compulsive about the "house" part, much less so than the Mom part.)

The way it is, we both work and we both have time with the kids, even deal. He also doesn't have the pressure of being a sole breadwinner, which would be very stressful for him.

And btw, in our case it isn't about money. DH's salary is a lot bigger than mine, and since we don't have any debt I could easily stay home. I just don't think it would be fair to him if I got to stop working when he didn't.

[CarolA]

I read these threads and I wonder... if the working DH's were posting would they think it was worth it.... the overtime, the 12-14 hour days etc?

I chose not to have kids so I don't know, but I do have several male friends who honestly seem to resent their wives who "get to stay home" and expect them to "pay all the bills" And yes, some of these wives do a LOT of community work and attempt to live frugually (and some don't) but that doesn't seem to make much of a difference when the men start telling tales.....

[jessica52877]

I can understand. We live in a very small house and had only the bare neccessities when my son was born. We still don't have cell phones and just got cable, he is 4 1/2 now! I knew that when I had a child that i wanted to stay home with him. My husband was fine with that, but I also wanted him to be able to enjoy him, he said he would do whatever it would take including 2 jobs. While pregnant I was so ill that I no longer worked, I could see that we were going to fall short each month just a bit (probably close to the OP, about $250). I have always been sale shopper, coupon clipper, etc so there was no place to "get" more money from.

I decided I would watch another child along with my own. It worked out great for about 2 years, then I grew bored with it and hated the time I took from my son for the other child... but in that time I started selling on ebay. That makes up enough of the difference that we can live comfortably (helps we had no debt beyond cars and house). We take nice budget vacations, disney is usually at the values, which I love. Moderates are nice, but never higher up. We don't feel it is worth it for our family. IF i had the money then I might feel differently.

I guess my point was, there is always a way if there is a will. Explore different scenerios of what you could do to make extra money. I must say I spend alot of time "working" now but I do it on my time!

[DawnM]

I have actually talked to men who say it IS worth it and they would do anything so that their kids will not need daycare, etc....

We are bit the opposite. I want to work and DH really would prefer me not, but I can make the same salary he does (I did in CA) and I am going a bit nuts staying home.

I think people who want the SAHM and the working dad scenario really need to take a close look at their budget. I used to think I couldn't stay home either, but honestly, we didn't "crunch" as much as we could have. We can live more frugally and be just as happy without DH working 12-14 hour days.

In fact, DH couldn't take on another job as he is a CPA and works enough as it is.

Dawn

I read these threads and I wonder... if the working DH's were posting would they think it was worth it.... the overtime, the 12-14 hour days etc?

I chose not to have kids so I don't know, but I do have several male friends who honestly seem to resent their wives who "get to stay home" and expect them to "pay all the bills" And yes, some of these wives do a LOT of community work and attempt to live frugually (and some don't) but that doesn't seem to make much of a difference when the men start telling tales.....

[hinodis]

DH gets 9 weeks of paid vacation a year from his job. Our business is seasonal so he has some down time. He was my son's wrestling coach from the time he was 7 untill college. lots of bonding there. Owning your own business means lots of flexibility. He has been to every horseback riding lesson evey horseshow. My ds is a musician and actor/singer. He has never missed a performnce. Yes, long workdays are hard in the summer, but he looks forward to the 2 weeks we spend on Mackinac Island every summer. He is 100% devoted to being involved in the kids lives. 5 out of 7 nights during the busy season he is home for dinner. For his full time job he works from 7am until about 10 or 11am and gets paid for 40 hours with full time benefits. We are very blessed with this job. I was just letting the OP know that there some options out there. Owning a business can be very lucrative. SAHM's work very hard and should not worry about not contributing to the finances.

[sk!mom]

See, this is the downside. (Yes, I know that the person who posted that didn't seem to think it was a downside.)

This would definitely be a deal-breaker for my DH. They are his kids, too, and he would HATE it if he worked such long hours and hardly had any time to spend with them. Both of us grew up with VERY involved Dads who spent every spare moment with us, even though we both had Moms who were housewives (and very compulsive about the "house" part, much less so than the Mom part.)
The way it is, we both work and we both have time with the kids, even deal. He also doesn't have the pressure of being a sole breadwinner, which would be very stressful for him.

And btw, in our case it isn't about money. DH's salary is a lot bigger than mine, and since we don't have any debt I could easily stay home. I just don't think it would be fair to him if I got to stop working when he didn't.

DH having to work two jobs is a deal breaker for me as well! My Dh is a wonderful dad and our kids have benefited by having an involved, present father. I have also benefitted by having a really great partner. I wouldn't want to sacrifice our time as a family or our time as couple so that I could be home.

I was lucky with DD because my mom watched her and being a teacher I had lots of time off and short days. If I hadn't had my mom, we probably would have made some sacrifices to have me home just until she started school. DH wouldn't have had to work two jobs but he would have had to keep his stressful job and we would have had to cut out some extras.

Actually my returning to work 10 years ago made it possible for DH to make a career switch 5 years ago that decreased his stress and increased his time for our family (reduced his income though but it is well worth it for me to work). He and I are both much happier.

[crisi]

About five years ago we had the same realization - we couldn't live off just my salary (we could live off just his). But it wasn't the question of wanting a SAHP - my husband got notice at his job. At the last minute he was reorganized but it convinced me to get my life if order.

We paid off all debt, including our mortgage over the next five years. Started aggressively saving. Since that time, we've both survived a few layoff cycles at our jobs.

I couldn't live with the insecurity of one job in the house - jobs aren't nearly stable enough and I'm way too much of a worrier. And both my husband and I have somewhat specialized resumes - we aren't necessarily walking into similar jobs.

[CrzyforPiglet]

I read these threads and I wonder... if the working DH's were posting would they think it was worth it.... the overtime, the 12-14 hour days etc?

I chose not to have kids so I don't know, but I do have several male friends who honestly seem to resent their wives who "get to stay home" and expect them to "pay all the bills" And yes, some of these wives do a LOT of community work and attempt to live frugually (and some don't) but that doesn't seem to make much of a difference when the men start telling tales.....

I am lucky that my DH wants me to stay home (can't stand the thought of our son in daycare - makes him sick) and we can afford for me not to work. That being said I think the most common misperception of SAHMs is that we have nothing to do all day except play with our kids and that is so not true - I don't think that's what you meant but its just how I took it. I work harder as a SAHM than when I worked in an office. My DH gets that when I ask him to watch our son for an afternoon while I get together with friends or what not, he realizes how hard it is and how tiring it can be. Don't get me wrong - I love being a SAHM but I felt the need to defend what we do. Plus I would have you ask those same friends if their wives did work - would they share the responsibility of daycare dropoff/pickup, taking time off of work when the kids were sick, prepping the lunches/snacks/extra clothes, etc. for daycare each day, handle errands on the weekends that don't get done during the week? I can tell you right now that all of that would fall on my shoulders if I worked which is another reason why I don't. I have such great respect for working moms and SAHMs - way to go moms!

[Taylors6]

I left my FT job 7 years ago (Gosh..can't believe its been that long!). I am not recommending that anyone do it the way I did...so please don't flame me, but for us when we started crunching the numbers it appeared that if my DH would work 2 OT days a month that we could make it. That is make it- not alot left over- no fun money, very little going in savings and retirement.

Was it the most responsible decision? No.

We had spent alot of time at a childrens hospital with our son and for us it had to happen because I needed to be home with our kids. Seeing our son thru what we did I could not do the M-F and sometimes be gone for meetings and leave him at daycare.

Luckily my DH knew he could get the OT, and our expenses actually went down ALOT (but remember that was not what we expected so it was really a blind leap!)- I had always worked and couldn't believe how much we saved when I wasn't buying convience foods/fast food, etc. Also we spent less on junk that we bought the kids because they might like it. Pretty much went to Christmas and Birthday for everything. Shopped ebay for clothing(back before shipping went crazy!). Alot of the things saved us alot and I just wouldn't have had time for it before- like making the school treats from scratch. I also have been the Brownie scout leader- coached some teams- PTA President on 2 boards- and a bunch of other things. So when I look at what we gave up- and its not smart- but I'm gonna say it- (please don't flame!!) even in retirement savings I still think we made the right choice. The plan is to make up for it when I do go back FT since we are used to the 1 income....yes I know that could be scary, but in the end..I can't imagine that I will ever regret leaving that income behind to raise our kids. (Talk to me when I'm 80 eating cat food and I might tell ya different!?!?:lmao: )

Funny thing is, about 5 months into it I was really starting to miss working and trying to figure out what to do about it- and a company was approaching me to work for them, and I knew I would like the work- but it would have to be M-F (no travel though). While I was thinking it over-I found out we were unexpectedly expecting our DD! God was helping me decide! Once she was about 2 I went to work PT- first seasonal at a place I could set my availability to what worked for us (which was nights- so my DH could take care of the kids- and I only missed 3 hrs a night with them before bed- like 2-3 days a week). The PT $ was great because now we can have some of those extras. I've went thru a couple other PT jobs and started working for Aldi's almost 2 years ago. Same deal with schedule- I can tell them when I can work- not much available on days- but night shifts are 4-9 so no big deal. I work anywhere from 8 hrs to 25 hrs a week and they work with me on everything so it fits really well in our life. Pay is $11 an hour. They consider you FT if you average over 20 hrs a week and they have great benefits- sick days/personal days, 1 week vacation (based on your average) after 6 months. They bug me all the time about turning FT (I am considered PT casual- and get no benefits) but I won't do it because I know how hard it was to make the jump out before- so I do not want to get tied to vacation time, etc.

OP, I feel for you and I hope you feel better soon. Maybe with raises you'll see a different picture in the future!

Missy

[mrsltg]

I feel your pain. I want another baby. DH and I worked the numbers - no way. Daycare would be $1000 per month - we could maybe swing $500. If I stopped working we'd be in a real bind - ie, I hope my kids could get used to Ramen noodles and only Ramen noodles! :lmao: We live in Northern Virginia and we're tied here because DH is a cop in DC with 17 years on the job- he'll be eligible for retirement in 8 years and with that comes a stellar pension!

Oh well - I will continue to drive my 7 year old car (at least until it becomes an 8 year old car, then I will continue to drive my 8 year old car... ;) ) and hope that a miracle occurs and we figure out how we can afford one more...

Good luck!

[ducklite]

We could just barely make it on DH's income, but we'd have to sell my roadster and cut out just about everything. We *might* be able to keep the DVC if we rented the points every other year to cover the maintenance costs for two years.

That said, I'd go stir crazy staying home!

Anne

[Chicago526]

It's interesting to read everyone's experiances, thanks for sharing! :)

I just find it amazing that a few generations ago, one income families were the norm. Now it's very difficult, if not impossible, to make it on a single income. DH and I could only do it if we rented, we'd never be able to own a home. And we'd still be cut to the bare minimum, no cable, internet, cell phones, eating out, vacations, etc. Even Chistmas gifts would be a stretch in that senario.

Fortunatly, I do work and make decent money and have great benifits to boot, and I'll be able to keep working after we have kids because DH and I are on oposit shifts and our daycare costs will be quite small. I just find it sad that for many, including myself, that being able to have one parent stay at home full time just isn't really an option. I'm very happy for those that are able to do it, I'm sure you all work very hard to make it happen!

Taylor6, I hope your son is doing better now!

mrsltg, I know what you mean about the car! I'll be driving my 9 year old car until it becomes a 10 year old car, unless my DH puts a bullet in it first because he's sick of working on it!

[DisneyMommyMichelle]

When we bought our home, the realtor wanted us to buy WAY higher than we knew we wanted to pay,we set our own limits,and bought accordingly.
But that's absolute comittment,not just happenstance

This is sooo true! we did the same thing! We bought waaay less then we could afford and went one bedroom less than we wanted, but didn't even need and it's worked out great!! we are thinking about moving again (in the same neighborhood) but it has to once again be on our terms :)

OP, I think it's great that you tried to figure it out and when the time comes if you ever want to really do it, you know what you have to do! Sometimes i wouldn't mind working part time, but i'm just too exhauted by the time DH gets home! haha!

[DisneyMommyMichelle]

just find it amazing that a few generations ago, one income families were the norm. Now it's very difficult, if not impossible, to make it on a single income. DH and I could only do it if we rented, we'd never be able to own a home. And we'd still be cut to the bare minimum, no cable, internet, cell phones, eating out, vacations, etc. Even Chistmas gifts would be a stretch in that senario.


That's another reason we moved to Rockford, more house for the money, HOWEVER you are verrry limited in neighborhoods! we live in a great one, but it's tiny and when houses go for sale it's few and far between!! In this neighborhoods renting is more expensive than owning. The new complex that just went up, has prices that are CRAZY, but the place is really nice!

[bunny]

I also think it is always stated too simplistically that everyone could afford to have one person stay at home if you "tightened your belts". My husband was married before and pays child support. I am proud of him for upholding his obligation to his children. But because of this, we could never live off his income. I have a Masters Degree and make more money than he does. So together we do quite well. He would never want to be an at home dad. And I could never afford to be an at home mom. Although, I would prefer not to put my children into daycare there is no other choice. Fortunately we make enough money that the children went to a top notch daycare and now attend private school. I think sometimes the people that say it would make them sick to put their children into daycare have no experience with daycare. Daycare is not hell. The children receive direct attention all day. My mom stayed at home with us and spent a lot of time cleaning and cooking. She did not spend as much time teaching us and playing with us as daycare children get. I love the fact too that both my husband and I are done by 5 PM and can spend all evening and weekend with our children.

But I just wanted to say not eveyone can stay home for a number of different reasons. For us it is child support. On the flip side my neighbor is an at home mom and the way she can do it is child support from her first husband. So it goes both ways.

[Dopey420]

I am lucky that my DH wants me to stay home (can't stand the thought of our son in daycare - makes him sick) and we can afford for me not to work. That being said I think the most common misperception of SAHMs is that we have nothing to do all day except play with our kids and that is so not true - I don't think that's what you meant but its just how I took it. I work harder as a SAHM than when I worked in an office. My DH gets that when I ask him to watch our son for an afternoon while I get together with friends or what not, he realizes how hard it is and how tiring it can be. Don't get me wrong - I love being a SAHM but I felt the need to defend what we do. Plus I would have you ask those same friends if their wives did work - would they share the responsibility of daycare dropoff/pickup, taking time off of work when the kids were sick, prepping the lunches/snacks/extra clothes, etc. for daycare each day, handle errands on the weekends that don't get done during the week? I can tell you right now that all of that would fall on my shoulders if I worked which is another reason why I don't. I have such great respect for working moms and SAHMs - way to go moms!


Uhhh... the rest of us do all that stuff AND work 37.5 hours per week.

Some people make A LOT of money. So yes, their SAHM can do it.

My wife and I are civil servants with advanced degrees. Without 2 incomes, we could not save for retirement or our kids' college education. We make enough for one vacation per year, after our savings.

However, without me doing my job, our court system could not function. And my wife teaches math in public schools. It seems like these would be important jobs that would pay better in our society. But no, we worship pop stars and greed meisters (Trump, Paris Hilton, et al.) here in the USA and reward them gratuitoulsy.

[Chicago526]

That's another reason we moved to Rockford, more house for the money, HOWEVER you are verrry limited in neighborhoods! we live in a great one, but it's tiny and when houses go for sale it's few and far between!! In this neighborhoods renting is more expensive than owning. The new complex that just went up, has prices that are CRAZY, but the place is really nice!

Hey, I've got family up there! You're right, COL is way cheap in Rockford, but DH works in downtown Chicago, so there's no way we could live there. He'd only be home long enough to sleep if we lived in Rockford!

[crjack]

...that there is no way we could live on just DH's pay. Even if we had all our debt paid off except the mortgage, and cut everything to the bare bones, we'd still be in the hole $250 a month. That's how bad the cost of living is in our area! And our mortgage isn't huge either! That's cuting out EVERYTHING, no vacations, no fun money, no internet at all, no cable at all, no eating out, no home improvements, and no savings (not even retirement or college fund). Just the mortgage, insurance, gasoline, utilities, food, and DH's medication. DH would have to work overtime to bridge the gap, and he can't always get overtime.

I saw one of the SAHM threads and decided to play around with the numbers to see where we stand. I just don't know how people live on one income, at least not in our area. We'd have to sell the house and rent in order to do it, and it would still be paycheck to paycheck each month.

This is depresing! :(

Chicago526.....we live in Boston and I feel your pain on the high cost of living. For us, moving wasn't something that either of us wanted to do and after we got married years ago we had parents that developed health issues and we wanted to be here with them.

We have 2 children close in age and just wanted to add that your financial situation now could be much different down the road. Living on one income when DS first arrived was not possible and to be honest the thought of no extra $$$ for retirement, emergeny fund, etc. scared us. I continued to work and did so after DD was born as well.

A few years down the road, the % of our income that went to our mortgage started to go down as salaries went up. We tried to save as much as we could from my paycheck and lived as debt free as possible during that time. We chose to stay in our smaller home and still haven't moved from it. I also tried to contribute as much as possible to my 401K so it would still be in decent shape if I took a break from working.

By the time my oldest started pre-school I was able to stop working full time. Even if your situation starts off one way that doesn't mean it will stay that way forever.

[Taylors6]

I think that comes from different areas choice in daycare. When we lived in Gainesville there were great options there- my DD went to a La Petit and we loved it and she loved it. When we moved back to our home town (smaller area) it was a different story. I put our son at the one and only daycare in town that took infants AND had a security system and 2 way mirrors in the hall (something about those I love- I guess cause I figure anyone walking around can easily see what going on in the rooms). Now they don't even take infants anymore so there are nothing but home based daycares in our area. I'm sure many of them are great-but if I don't personally know you and feel great about it I don't want to have to leave my child there. It would "make me physically sick". I would be in debt before I would do that.

So I think that some people say that depending on the daycare options they have. If they had larger daycare centers like those in many areas then they might feel quite different. I am sure there is good and bad everywhere-but the experiences I have had with the larger- chains I guess have been wonderful and I think they were a benefit to our child.

Just my .02

Missy




I also think it is always stated too simplistically that everyone could afford to have one person stay at home if you "tightened your belts". My husband was married before and pays child support. I am proud of him for upholding his obligation to his children. But because of this, we could never live off his income. I have a Masters Degree and make more money than he does. So together we do quite well. He would never want to be an at home dad. And I could never afford to be an at home mom. Although, I would prefer not to put my children into daycare there is no other choice. Fortunately we make enough money that the children went to a top notch daycare and now attend private school. I think sometimes the people that say it would make them sick to put their children into daycare have no experience with daycare. Daycare is not hell. The children receive direct attention all day. My mom stayed at home with us and spent a lot of time cleaning and cooking. She did not spend as much time teaching us and playing with us as daycare children get. I love the fact too that both my husband and I are done by 5 PM and can spend all evening and weekend with our children.

But I just wanted to say not eveyone can stay home for a number of different reasons. For us it is child support. On the flip side my neighbor is an at home mom and the way she can do it is child support from her first husband. So it goes both ways.

[jennilouwho]

I babysit other kids, but we meet our needs with my husband's money as I always want to have the option of quitting when I want. He always tells me working is my choice and he's fine if I don't want to watch the other kids anymore. My money just goes towards the "extras." He makes under $50,000 a year and we make it work. We bought a repossessed house which was very scary at first, but we've been slowly fixing it up and it's looking more and more like a home every day. I budget everything carefully and we drive older cars. We use our Disney Visa for everything and we don't go on a Disney trip until we have enough points to cover it. I imagine this year will be our last trip to WDW for awhile as airfare is crazy from here to Florida, but we can drive to Disneyland, so we'll get a fix once every few years. :)

[disneysteve]

if the working DH's were posting would they think it was worth it.... the overtime, the 12-14 hour days etc?

DH here. DW and I agreed before we even got married that once we had a child, we wanted her raised by us, not by daycare. We lived our life accordingly, remaining frugal, living below our means, buying a home that we could comfortably afford on my income alone. DW stopped working a month before she got pregnant and remained at home from 12/94 until 1/05 when she took a job that kind of fell in her lap. Last month, she left that job because it just wasn't working out with DD's schedule, so she is back to being a SAHM.

It seems like housing is the biggest problem. People buy homes that they just can't afford on one income and after that they are stuck. One spouse can't stop working because of that mortgage bill. I think if you both are committed to having one spouse stay home, you need to keep that in mind when deciding what to buy and even if you should buy. If you buy, you need to stick with a home that is affordable on one income. Keep in mind that about 70% of folks own their homes today. 100 years ago, only about 20% owned their homes and having a stay at home spouse was the norm. Sure, it's great to own your own home, but you need to think about the consequences of doing so. If you buy a more expensive home that you need both incomes to support, having a SAHP won't be possible.

[crisi]

The other big problem is lookahead depth. People get married, have two incomes, and buy a house they can afford with two incomes. They have plans to have kids "someday" and maybe a feeling they'd like a SAHP. But they don't think it through. And if they do think it through, a lot of people have very optimistic projections for how their careers are going to go when starting out - and "someday" comes faster than they think. "It will work out."

To give people credit, most people find a way to make it work out. But they make a lot of unanticipated sacrifices (and it doesn't make any difference if you are sacrificing to afford to stay home or sacrificing in order to pay for daycare - its still a lot of your income invested somewhere you didn't really plan on - or not to the extent.).

[CarolA]

I am not surprised, but disappointed that this thread has a feeling of "right" vs. "wrong" (In other words all of you who HAVE to work are doing it wrong because of course you COULD stay home which most of us know is NOT always true. Of course if you were willing to live in the slums on welfare maybe it would work, but THEN the DIS would bash you for using welfare..... LOL! There are places in this country where it takes two low to moderate incomes to make ends meet. Boston, California, NY etc. There's this tendency on the DIS to be unrealistic at times about life in America today)

[bunny]

This is exactly my point. It is not always a mismanagement of finances that causes a family to need two incomes. Some areas of the country are simply more expensive. Some people have unexpected bills. Some people pay child support or support elderly parents. Life happens. I personally feel that sending my children to private school, planning to pay for their college educations, saving for my retirement, building a nest egg, living debt free and tithing are more important than staying at home with my children. I am very fortunate and blessed to have the finances to do that. However, many people on these boards would tell me I am selfish and jeapordizing my children. But if my husband did not pay his child support, he would be a deadbeat dad. If I was in huge credit card debt, I would be irresponsible. On and on.

[tiff211]

I knew from early on that I did NOT want to be a SAHM because of what I saw with my Mom and Step-dad. They decided they wanted DM to SAH and he would work. They had 5 kids and then there was me and my step brother. DSD worked 3 jobs to make ends meet and we had to share rooms, and never went on vacation or had enough for extras. They drove beat up cars and we never had new clothes or toys and meals of course were "creative". While apprecative of what we had, my siblings and I always wondered why DM wouldn't go get a job so we could live like "normal" families. Now we did have clothes on our backs, a roof over our head, went to private schools on scholarships, etc. but there was no money for anything extra. I would have rather have my mom work and us have more money coming in than have her home afterschool. DSD died from a stroke when I was 22, it did not run in the family and he was very healthy, go figure.

I always said unless I married someone "rich" so money was not an issue and my income would not be missed, I would work so DH could spend time with the family, we could go on vacations etc. If we had to SURVIVE of one income than we probably could. BTW, DM has always tried to talk me into staying home after each DD was born. I don't think there is a right or wrong to it, one of my closest friends is a SAHM, different strokes for different folks. Neither of our children seem "better" off than the other.

I can't find the post but I saw a comment about they didn't want daycare "raising" their kids. Does that mean teachers raise kids when they are schoolage? That is not the role of a daycare, to raise, if I do it 4 hours a day or 8 hours a day, DH and I raise our kids. Daycares teach and care for children while parents work.

[Ava31]

I read these threads and I wonder... if the working DH's were posting would they think it was worth it.... the overtime, the 12-14 hour days etc?

I chose not to have kids so I don't know, but I do have several male friends who honestly seem to resent their wives who "get to stay home" and expect them to "pay all the bills" And yes, some of these wives do a LOT of community work and attempt to live frugually (and some don't) but that doesn't seem to make much of a difference when the men start telling tales.....

Maybe my husband is a greater man than some (at least, I think so), but in his opinion, if one of us couldn't raise our girls, we would live in a 600 sq. ft. apartment and ride a bike everywhere.

This is bound to spark some flames, but I feel compelled to say it: I have seen both of my babies sit up for the first time, crawl, take their first steps, say their first words. I was there to walk my daughter into kindergarten the first day and to pick her up from school and spend the afternoons at the playground. I have kissed all their owwies and cleaned and bandaged them the way I felt was proper. I've heard first-hand all of the hilarious things that come out of an inexperienced talker. Mine is the first face my 2-year-old sees when she wakes up from her nap and I can lavish 100% of my attention on her when she's awake. I've also been able to be room mom for DD6, go on all of her field trips, eat lunch with her occasionally, and be there for field day (all things that my dear working mom wasn't able to do.) Perhaps DH isn't the one experiencing these things, but he's always on the other end of the phone as soon as it happens, listening to a play-by-play from the one person that loves his girls as much as he does.

We're truly blessed to be able to afford it without making huge sacrifices, but don't get me wrong, we still make sacrifices. For instance, I'd love to go to Disney twice a year, but our family vacations are more often to my in-laws lake house an hour and a half away. We eat out twice a week, which may seem extravagant, but when I worked, it was closer to 5 times a week (and I'm talking sit-down, tip-your-server dinners, not to mention multiple sit-down lunches a week). I'd love to shop and Gymboree and BabyGap, but I've vowed never to pay retail for clothes at any store but Target (for that matter, I usually shop off the clearance rack there). Of course, we live in Texas, where the cost of living is much more manageable. However, when we were living in Boston, with DH making $50k (which wasn't a whole heckuva lot in MA) we chose to rent and drive cheap, reliable cars and eat at home and accept hand-me-downs and shop at resale stores...we made it work.

...when we started crunching the numbers it appeared that if my DH would work 2 OT days a month that we could make it. That is make it- not alot left over- no fun money, very little going in savings and retirement...

... I had always worked and couldn't believe how much we saved when I wasn't buying convience foods/fast food, etc. Also we spent less on junk that we bought the kids because they might like it. Pretty much went to Christmas and Birthday for everything. Shopped ebay for clothing(back before shipping went crazy!). Alot of the things saved us alot and I just wouldn't have had time for it before- like making the school treats from scratch. I also have been the Brownie scout leader- coached some teams- PTA President on 2 boards- and a bunch of other things. So when I look at what we gave up- and its not smart- but I'm gonna say it- (please don't flame!!) even in retirement savings I still think we made the right choice. The plan is to make up for it when I do go back FT since we are used to the 1 income....yes I know that could be scary, but in the end..I can't imagine that I will ever regret leaving that income behind to raise our kids. (Talk to me when I'm 80 eating cat food and I might tell ya different!?!?:lmao: )

...Once she was about 2 I went to work PT- first seasonal at a place I could set my availability to what worked for us (which was nights- so my DH could take care of the kids- and I only missed 3 hrs a night with them before bed- like 2-3 days a week)...


I can't imagine that anyone would actually flame you for choosing your kids over retirement, and you seem to have made quite feasible adjustments for your situation.

Huge kudos to you for making it work. It's wonderful that you and DH were able to work it so that the kids had at least one of you at all times.

While I do understand that couples are in situations that require them both to work, a one-worker home does not necessarily mean the family will be on welfare living in low-income housing as some have inferred. There are a lot of things that one can live without that they don't realize because they've never had to try. As for myself, I work my butt off making sure my family is happy and healthy. My daughters are very intelligent, outgoing, and well-adjusted...I'm not saying that kids in day-care don't share those same virtues, but no one can tell me that my girls would be better off if I was at work.

[iwannago!!]

I feel your pain. I want another baby. DH and I worked the numbers - no way. Daycare would be $1000 per month - we could maybe swing $500. If I stopped working we'd be in a real bind - ie, I hope my kids could get used to Ramen noodles and only Ramen noodles! :lmao: We live in Northern Virginia and we're tied here because DH is a cop in DC with 17 years on the job- he'll be eligible for retirement in 8 years and with that comes a stellar pension!

Oh well - I will continue to drive my 7 year old car (at least until it becomes an 8 year old car, then I will continue to drive my 8 year old car... ;) ) and hope that a miracle occurs and we figure out how we can afford one more...

Good luck!

Gosh, I just had to chime in here, I feel like I can relate!

I am a working mom to 3 kids (12,4,almost 3). I thought that I would quit working to stay home when the little ones were born, but couldn't do it. Partly because I love my job, partly because it is so flexible, partly because of the money. I DO spend $1000/mo in daycare - it is a homecare and the woman that watches my kids has 2 of her own that are the same ages as mine - and I think the world of her. Her house is always clean, the kids are always clean, fed, well cared for - and she beleives in many of the same behavior teachings that I do, so the kids are getting the same messages at home or at 'her house'. THANK GOD that I have her, because if it wasn't her, I don't think that I would still be working.

I am trying to get my 10 years in here at work because of the pension/medical insurance benefits for later in my life, and my DH's life. We have education goals for our kids, as well as our retirement dreams. I figured that working right now and saving a TON in my 401k now while I am young enough that there are many earning years ahead of me.. well, we figure that if we save aggressively now, we will be able to afford our children's education and still be able to retire young enough to enjoy it.

My bind is that my 4 year old has just 1 year preschool left and will start Kindergarten when I am shy of my 10 years - and the babysitter that I have now isn't close enough to our school to make it work out. So now I am trying to decide if that is when I will quit to be a SAHM or if I will try and find a different sitter for the first 6 months of the K school year so that I can get my 10 years in. Regardless, I am looking at being a SAHM by August of 2008, and I have to make plans now.

What we have done to prepare is this..
a. All of our creidt cards are paid off. We do have and use one mastercard, and it is paid off monthly - no matter what.
b. We got some money in the bank for security. It isn't a lot, but it is something and it doesn't get touched for anything! But should we run into a true emergency (heater goes out etc), we won't screw up our household finances over it.
c. DH has a lot more salary and career potential than I do, so he started 'playing the game' at work and I took a break at futhering my career. Fortunately, I have a great deal more flexibility at work, so I take the sick days off when kids need it. I also went down to 4 days/week so that I can schedule appts on my off day. We did feel the pinch with that 4day/week change, but we realized that it wasn't as bad as we thought that it would be.
d. We are saving aggressively now in both of our 401ks. When I stop contributing to mine to stay home, DH will probably have to lessen his contribution to his own so that we have more 'take home' money - so we are saving more now so that it has longer to grow.
e. We are done buying cars. I got my minivan used, it is a 2001 with 100k miles on it. We maintain it - I just had work done and am going to replace the timing belt - we plan to keep it for another 100k miles or more. I have a car that is pd off with 100k miles on it, we maintain that too - we use it less, but it will be DDs car to drive in a couple years. DH got his truck 2 years ago and it will be paid off by the end of this year - and he is keeping it forever. For us, it was better to pay the car payments over the last few years while I am working, knowing that we wouldn't be doing it for the next few years when I am not- but we are sure to take care of maintenance to the vehicles to insure that we DO get to keep driving them as long as we possibly can. Once I am a SAHM, car payments & insurance won't work in our budget.
f. We live in a less expensive area & pay lower taxes as a result. We are doing the pricey home maintenance now, cuz we know that we won't be able to do that later when I am staying home.

In the end, we have less money now - but will have stability later. I know that this won't work for everyone and every situation - but if you can possibly figure out what your monthly expenses are now, and how much it will take you to bring home to cover it all, then do it. Try to see where you fall short and figure out how to fill the gap, even if it will take you a few years to do it - just see where it is and what you need to do to get where you want to go. I wish all of you good luck to make being a SAHM a reality for you. And I sure hope that things work out for me and I get to do it in 2008!

[DawnM]

I really wonder sometimes.....there weren't as many numbers of mothers in the workforce prior to WWII. During the war women started working and that really sparked the whole working mothers numbers to grow considerably. I wonder if that hadn't happened if prices might not have gotten so out of control. I read something about it at some point, but have forgotten most of the article.

DH keeps saying I should have an in-home daycare.....I cannot tell you how much I would HATE that! I don't particularly care for kids under the age of 12 unless they are my own! HA!

Dawn


It's interesting to read everyone's experiances, thanks for sharing! :)

I just find it amazing that a few generations ago, one income families were the norm. Now it's very difficult, if not impossible, to make it on a single income. DH and I could only do it if we rented, we'd never be able to own a home. And we'd still be cut to the bare minimum, no cable, internet, cell phones, eating out, vacations, etc. Even Chistmas gifts would be a stretch in that senario.

Fortunatly, I do work and make decent money and have great benifits to boot, and I'll be able to keep working after we have kids because DH and I are on oposit shifts and our daycare costs will be quite small. I just find it sad that for many, including myself, that being able to have one parent stay at home full time just isn't really an option. I'm very happy for those that are able to do it, I'm sure you all work very hard to make it happen!

Taylor6, I hope your son is doing better now!

mrsltg, I know what you mean about the car! I'll be driving my 9 year old car until it becomes a 10 year old car, unless my DH puts a bullet in it first because he's sick of working on it!

[mrsltg]

I am not surprised, but disappointed that this thread has a feeling of "right" vs. "wrong" (In other words all of you who HAVE to work are doing it wrong because of course you COULD stay home which most of us know is NOT always true. Of course if you were willing to live in the slums on welfare maybe it would work, but THEN the DIS would bash you for using welfare..... LOL! There are places in this country where it takes two low to moderate incomes to make ends meet. Boston, California, NY etc. There's this tendency on the DIS to be unrealistic at times about life in America today)


THANK YOU!!! Most posters have been great, but you do get the idea of a sneer here and there.

Disney Steve, I know you mean well, but your view is quite myopic. You are a doctor. My husband is a policeman. Can you guess where I am going with this? When we bought our home there was a rule that we HAD to live within 25 mile of the Ellipse. This was not optional. If you wished to be employed by the MPD you had to follow this rule. It is designed to ensure first responders could get to work quickly. Perhaps you are not familiar with the DC housing market - whether you rent or buy, you'd better be ready to fork over the cash. We purchsed our home 24.7 miles from the Ellipse for $360,000. We don't live in a mansion - we bought what was available to us in 2003.

2001-2006ish was the housing boom. Terrorism had happened in our own backyard and the government went crazy hiring. The Fed pays well and prices shot up. Contractors moved in and built offices - they pay well, too. The market adjusted according. Unfortunately, my DH still earns a policeman's salary. I guess in your opinion we should live in a two bedroom apartment?

There is a community organziation my company supports called WOW - With ownership, Wealth. Truer words were never spoken. The organization promoted raising oneself out of poverty by purchasing a home and putting a stake in a community. Home ownership is vastly important and should be the goal of most people. Your home is your largest investment. It provides you with a place to live and a place to put your money. On a doctors salary I don't think you should judge what the rest of the working folk do...

Ava31 - How lovely for you and your husband that you both have found a happy medium. So have most families. I am glad you got to see your children's firsts - I did, too, unless my dh beat me to it! HOWEVER, I will never forget the look on my dd's (6 years old) when, four weeks ago, she helped me get dressed in my nicest suit and my beautiful pearls - so I could go to a face-to-face meeting with the President of the United States. She looked at me in awe and couldn't wait to tell her friends and teacher that her mother - her MOTHER - was sitting across from the President. The pride she took in presenting me to her Daisy troop to discuss the legislative process was breathtaking. I'm glad my daughter got to have that moment. Different strokes, I guess...

[gottaluvdis]

While we've both had to work since DD10 was born, we've been very fortunate with flexible schedules that allowed us to spend more time with her than the normal 9-5 job. DD10 has been in day-care, home care, and after-school care at different points in her life, but not exclusively or all the time. Currently I'm fortunate to get home from work at 3:30 pm each day, before she gets off the bus. DH is in sales and is home in the mornings with her. Despite me being home in the afternoons, she has so many activities that a lot of times, I'm home alone! I feel we have the perfect balance of work/home life and that DD10 has become a well-rounded, independent, creative individual thus far. I plan to keep my schedule around 30 hours per week as long as possible so that I'm around after school during the upcoming teen years, when I know she'll need supervision. Most of my friends who have been SAHM's end up back in the work force once the children enter school, usually part-time. This seems to be a good balance if it's feasible.

[NotUrsula]

I am lucky that my DH wants me to stay home (can't stand the thought of our son in daycare - makes him sick) and we can afford for me not to work. That being said I think the most common misperception of SAHMs is that we have nothing to do all day except play with our kids and that is so not true - I don't think that's what you meant but its just how I took it. I work harder as a SAHM than when I worked in an office. My DH gets that when I ask him to watch our son for an afternoon while I get together with friends or what not, he realizes how hard it is and how tiring it can be. Don't get me wrong - I love being a SAHM but I felt the need to defend what we do. Plus I would have you ask those same friends if their wives did work - would they share the responsibility of daycare dropoff/pickup, taking time off of work when the kids were sick, prepping the lunches/snacks/extra clothes, etc. for daycare each day, handle errands on the weekends that don't get done during the week? I can tell you right now that all of that would fall on my shoulders if I worked which is another reason why I don't. I have such great respect for working moms and SAHMs - way to go moms!

No one is implying that SAHM's are deadbeats. My point about the stress factor for a sole breadwinner is that, hardworking or not, once you are a SAHM, you are answerable to no one about how you spend your day. You are in charge. No boss, no corporate policies, no clients you can't send to their rooms when they misbehave. THAT stress is really considerable, and no one who works for someone else gets to dodge it. I don't think it would be fair to DH if I got to walk away from that when he didn't.

To address the "people used to be able to live on one income" issue, there are several factors that contributed, and honestly there was only a kind of short span of time when it was the norm, from the late 1930's to the mid-1970's. During WW2, wages surpassed the cost of living rather quickly because of the industrial ramp up and the shortage of manufactured goods to spend that money on. That contributed to a very high savings rate coming out of the war. Couple that with the GI Bill and the fact that, thanks to the draft, almost EVERY young family from the late 40's to the late 1960's was eligible for VA home loans, and it becomes clear to me that the dominant factor (besides ordinary inflation) is the debt load required to set up a household now vs. what it was then. If you ask someone who bought a house in the 1950's about it, find out what the ratio of the price of the house was to annual household income. In most markets at the time, a house cost no more than about 18 months' gross for the average worker in the community.

The GI Bill was in many ways a mixed blessing for the US, because while it alowed several generations to cross class lines by giving them access to higher education in a way formerly not possible, it also accelerated the change away from a manufacturing economy, raised the bar on basic qualifications and changed our perspective on employment as related to location. We started thinking it was normal to relocate for school and for jobs, which took us away from our extended families and created the idea that a nuclear family should be functionally self-sufficient. The rise of suburbia further complicated things by taking us away from public transit systems, which meant that unless that SAHM wanted to LITERALLY SAH, two vehicles were needed for each household.

For a while housewives really *did* SAH, or at each other's homes -- in early suburbia the only places within walking distance were other houses, the playground if you had one, or the grade school -- *maybe* a corner grocery store. I remember when Moms started getting cars in my working-class neighborhood when I was growing up, it was in about 1967, and at first it was pretty rare. By the mid-1970's most moms drove, which had not been the case when I first started school, and once they had cars, a lot of them started getting jobs, too, though at first mostly part-time. In the no-car days, all shopping, banking, library visits, etc. had to be fitted in on Saturdays, because the stores were not open at night or on Sunday, and Dad had the vehicle during the weekdays. If you had a sick kid the doctor made a house call, and if he didn't, either Dad took some time off to drive you, you begged a neighbor who worked the night shift, or you broke open the piggy bank and took a cab.

[LadyShiva]

Maybe my husband is a greater man than some (at least, I think so), but in his opinion, if one of us couldn't raise our girls, we would live in a 600 sq. ft. apartment and ride a bike everywhere.

This is bound to spark some flames, but I feel compelled to say it: I have seen both of my babies sit up for the first time, crawl, take their first steps, say their first words. I was there to walk my daughter into kindergarten the first day and to pick her up from school and spend the afternoons at the playground. I have kissed all their owwies and cleaned and bandaged them the way I felt was proper. I've heard first-hand all of the hilarious things that come out of an inexperienced talker. Mine is the first face my 2-year-old sees when she wakes up from her nap and I can lavish 100% of my attention on her when she's awake. I've also been able to be room mom for DD6, go on all of her field trips, eat lunch with her occasionally, and be there for field day (all things that my dear working mom wasn't able to do.) Perhaps DH isn't the one experiencing these things, but he's always on the other end of the phone as soon as it happens, listening to a play-by-play from the one person that loves his girls as much as he does.

We're truly blessed to be able to afford it without making huge sacrifices, but don't get me wrong, we still make sacrifices. For instance, I'd love to go to Disney twice a year, but our family vacations are more often to my in-laws lake house an hour and a half away. We eat out twice a week, which may seem extravagant, but when I worked, it was closer to 5 times a week (and I'm talking sit-down, tip-your-server dinners, not to mention multiple sit-down lunches a week). I'd love to shop and Gymboree and BabyGap, but I've vowed never to pay retail for clothes at any store but Target (for that matter, I usually shop off the clearance rack there). Of course, we live in Texas, where the cost of living is much more manageable. However, when we were living in Boston, with DH making $50k (which wasn't a whole heckuva lot in MA) we chose to rent and drive cheap, reliable cars and eat at home and accept hand-me-downs and shop at resale stores...we made it work.



I can't imagine that anyone would actually flame you for choosing your kids over retirement, and you seem to have made quite feasible adjustments for your situation.

Huge kudos to you for making it work. It's wonderful that you and DH were able to work it so that the kids had at least one of you at all times.

While I do understand that couples are in situations that require them both to work, a one-worker home does not necessarily mean the family will be on welfare living in low-income housing as some have inferred. There are a lot of things that one can live without that they don't realize because they've never had to try. As for myself, I work my butt off making sure my family is happy and healthy. My daughters are very intelligent, outgoing, and well-adjusted...I'm not saying that kids in day-care don't share those same virtues, but no one can tell me that my girls would be better off if I was at work.

I found your post pretty offensive. I wish I didn't, but I do.

I guess the best way to sum up my feelings is to ask you how you are going to feel when your daughter goes to school and you learn things about her from her teacher? Or when she goes to college, what are you going to do?

Why is ok for you to relay these things to your DH, but you don't appreciate those of us who also have children who absolutely love their day care and prefer to go play with their best friends? We get information relayed from the other people in her life, and I just don't find myself resentful.

My daughter is her own person, and I'm just one of the adoring people in her life. She loves her day care, and adores her best friends enough that she dreams about playing with them every night. No joke. "Abby and Jo Jo" are her favorite words. These are 2 children she has known her entire life, and she has a blast with them at day care. Fiona sees day care as a full day's playdate with a ton of toys.

I'm trying to not be offended, really truly. I know staying home is important to you. But to tell me my time with and without my daughter makes me less of a valid parent is offensive. I want to celebrate your happiness, but the inference that I am less of a parent just because you stay home with your children and my daughter quite happily goes off to day care... That is over the line.

Brandie

[iwannago!!]

DH keeps saying I should have an in-home daycare.....I cannot tell you how much I would HATE that! I don't particularly care for kids under the age of 12 unless they are my own! HA!




LOL, that is so me! My DH would never dream of suggesting that I do in-home daycare, he knows the kids would drive me nuts! Hahaha... But I LOVE the woman that watches my kids! Some people are cut out for it and others aren't. You and I apparently know where to draw the line, some don't and wind up miserable in the process, along with the kids!

[luvmy3jewels]

It's funny that this post is on the board today. I am a mom of three (2,4 &6) that works full time and hates it. I am miserable in my job and terribly depressed when I see SAHMs with their kids out and about during the day. It reminds me of how badly I miss my children and wish that I could be home with them.

Before my children were born, I never thought that I would want to stay at home. But with each one, it became harder and harder to go back to work.

I would be willing to sell everything, move, whatever it took to finanically be able to afford to stay home. But my dh is totally against the idea and totally unsupportive of me staying home. The ironic thing is his mom was a SAHM (mine was not).

My parents watch my kids, so I don't have the expense or worry of daycare. And my mother does a lot to help me with things that need to be done around the house. But I'm still really unhappy with my situation and I will always regret not having the opportunity to spend as much time with my kids while they are still babies.

If anyone has any ideas on how I could convince my husband to see things from my perspective, let me know. I've just about given up on trying to make him see how unhappy I am with our situation.

(BTW....I already live in NC and the housing costs have more than doubled here over the last three years)

[NotUrsula]

You know, I've got to say it, too: I really couldn't care less about my kid's first steps, or first words, or first tooth. I've just never gotten excited about all that stuff, and it doesn't bother me whether or not I missed them, though there is no way anyone could miss a first tooth -- they usually get so fussy that you know it's there long before you can see it. Besides, a good daycare provider won't burst your bubble by telling you about a "first" that happens when you are not there; they will keep their mouths shut and let you think that the first time you see it is the first time it happened. I *don't* have working Mom guilt. My kids' lives are their own, and they see their lives as perfectly normal -- they don't worry about how other families live, except perhaps to lust after some expensive toys that we refuse to finance.

I'm not a mod, but I'd like to point out that if we want to discuss this constructively we need to drop the judgements about whether or not having a SAHP is a moral imperative or not, or whether daycare is evil, because if it isn't dropped the thread will be closed. The issue under discussion is managing the cost of having a one parent household, whether that cost is monetary, mental, or taken out in time. Please, let's try to stick as closely to that as we can.

[crisi]

I really wonder sometimes.....there weren't as many numbers of mothers in the workforce prior to WWII. During the war women started working and that really sparked the whole working mothers numbers to grow considerably. I wonder if that hadn't happened if prices might not have gotten so out of control. I read something about it at some point, but have forgotten most of the article.

DH keeps saying I should have an in-home daycare.....I cannot tell you how much I would HATE that! I don't particularly care for kids under the age of 12 unless they are my own! HA!

Dawn


Actually, this isn't as true as people think it is.

Before WWII plenty of women did work - but society was much more rural. Was my great grandmother - putting lunch on the table for 30 farmhands during planting an harvest - watching her own kids? No, she was too busy running a farm, in partnership with my great grandfather. Then, as now, there were huge class issues as well - my immigrant great grandmothers on the other side all worked as well - in stockyards and factories - or at home doing peicework. Remember those stories about "taking in laundry or mending" - those were jobs. During the depression, anyone who could get a job did for the most part, if that was Mom or Dad - so the 1930s are an abberation (with negative inflation, btw). The Keating Owns act was 1916 - which was the first attempt on a national level to regulate child labor.

The heyday of the "homemaker" was post WWII - when factory jobs paid enough that we had a middle class that was really unknown before. The 1920s were pretty good for stay at home Mom's too, post war boom economy made one income possible. But buy and large during the industrial age, its been pretty much the 50/50 proposition it pretty much is today.

A really good book about this is "The Way We Never Were" by Stephanie Koontz. Its a little dated.

[iwannago!!]

lovemyjewels,
Would DH be as unsupportive of you being a SAHM if the pressure to babysit the children were on HIS parents shoulders instead of YOUR parent shoulders?
Fortunately, my DH tells me that it is MY decision to work or not, but I don't always feel that is his true sentiment. I often question whether he would resent me for getting to be there for our kids day in and day out while he is at work. Then again, I wonder if I would resent him for getting to get out of the house, escape the gremlins (my kids, I use the term endearingly), and have grown up time - go to lunch, shop for something alone, have a cocktail with a client... will I resent him for getting to do that stuff if I give it all up to stay home with the kids?

[LadyShiva]

Actually, this isn't as true as people think it is.

....
A really good book about this is "The Way We Never Were" by Stephanie Koontz. Its a little dated.

Hey, I have that book too!!! That's funny!

That book lead me to interview my grandmother. That was the first time I actually saw her as a woman, versus a great cook and a great person to hug. That interview is a cherished memory.

Brandie

[Ava31]

I found your post pretty offensive. I wish I didn't, but I do.

I guess the best way to sum up my feelings is to ask you how you are going to feel when your daughter goes to school and you learn things about her from her teacher? Or when she goes to college, what are you going to do?

Why is ok for you to relay these things to your DH, but you don't appreciate those of us who also have children who absolutely love their day care and prefer to go play with their best friends? We get information relayed from the other people in her life, and I just don't find myself resentful.

My daughter is her own person, and I'm just one of the adoring people in her life. She loves her day care, and adores her best friends enough that she dreams about playing with them every night. No joke. "Abby and Jo Jo" are her favorite words. These are 2 children she has known her entire life, and she has a blast with them at day care. Fiona sees day care as a full day's playdate with a ton of toys.

I'm trying to not be offended, really truly. I know staying home is important to you. But to tell me my time with and without my daughter makes me less of a valid parent is offensive. I want to celebrate your happiness, but the inference that I am less of a parent just because you stay home with your children and my daughter quite happily goes off to day care... That is over the line.

Brandie

I'm so sorry that you're offended, and I'm delighted that your daughter has a fabulous day care with great friends. Did I ever once say that I was a better mom than someone that goes to work? Not at all. What I did say was that I wouldn't trade my experience for anything. I was merely stating what I felt made it worth the sacrifices that our family has made. I never once said anything derogatory about day cares, I just said that I felt that my children would not be better off at one (as a previous poster inferred)...and if you re-read my post you will see that I never said that they'd be worse off.

DD6 is now in 1st grade, so I've had 2 years of her teacher telling me what happened during her day. And, you know what? I'm perfectly fine with that. You assume that I don't want DD to be away from me and that's a false assumption. Believe it or not, I would go out of my mind if I had both of the girls in my hair 24-7. I love them more than life itself, but I'm not Supermom, I need my own time, too (which happens to be b/t the hours of noon and 2:30 when DD6 is at school and DD2 is napping).

The reason that "it is ok" for me to relay my children's milestones to my husband is because that is the path that we have chosen. As mrsltg stated, when talking about meeting the president, "Different strokes..."

That said, my reason for posting was not to offend anyone, but to point out to OP why it may be worth it to her to explore the option more completely and also see how her situation lies when she finds herself 6 months pregnant. There are 2 sides of every coin.

[ckoncurat]

I'm not going to touch the debate over whether being a SAHM is the "right" thing to do. But I do beleive that if you make a choice that is right for your family, God will help you do it. I was a teacher making less than $30,000 a year when my first DD was born, my husband was still in college. After a few months I realized working outside the home wasn't right for me, so my DH and I acted on faith and I resigned my position at the end of the school year. Within six months my husband found a part time job paying MORE than my teaching salary, finished school in two years, and is still at that job (full time) 10 years later. I have never gone back to work. I have lots of friends with similar stories, and many of their husbands are teachers, policemen, etc.I also have several working friends who I feel are wonderful mothers; many of them in careers with flexible hours. I just think that you should decide in your heart what is right for your family FIRST, and then figure out the finances. Things have a way of working themselves out.

[Chicago526]

Whoa! I did NOT intend to have this thead be about working vs stay-at-home parenting!

This is about the ability to make that choice, not which choice is right or wrong (and for the record, neither choice is wrong!)

[snomofinn]

;) I guess Iam one of the lucky ones..Chicago, I don't leave that far from you, Iam in Lombard, we've been married for 22 years and 2 girls 20 and 13, I havent worked since I was pregnant with my first. I worked a couple part time jobs, but its not worth it, I'd rather be home when my kids need me. My husband sometimes complains about what he DOESNT have instead of being grateful for what he DOES have. :confused3 I have to remind him all the big boy toys he has and the second home in Michigan, and all the Disney vacations we go on. He feels that after being self employed for the past 24 years that he should of accomplished more. I would give up all the material things we have to have him healthy again. He was diagnosed with cancer over 3 years ago..All the money in the world wouldnt make me happier then seeing him cancer free.:sad1:

[LadyShiva]

I'm so sorry that you're offended, and I'm delighted that your daughter has a fabulous day care with great friends. Did I ever once say that I was a better mom than someone that goes to work? Not at all. What I did say was that I wouldn't trade my experience for anything. I was merely stating what I felt made it worth the sacrifices that our family has made. I never once said anything derogatory about day cares, I just said that I felt that my children would not be better off at one (as a previous poster inferred)...and if you re-read my post you will see that I never said that they'd be worse off.

DD6 is now in 1st grade, so I've had 2 years of her teacher telling me what happened during her day. And, you know what? I'm perfectly fine with that. You assume that I don't want DD to be away from me and that's a false assumption. Believe it or not, I would go out of my mind if I had both of the girls in my hair 24-7. I love them more than life itself, but I'm not Supermom, I need my own time, too (which happens to be b/t the hours of noon and 2:30 when DD6 is at school and DD2 is napping).

The reason that "it is ok" for me to relay my children's milestones to my husband is because that is the path that we have chosen. As mrsltg stated, when talking about meeting the president, "Different strokes..."

That said, my reason for posting was not to offend anyone, but to point out to OP why it may be worth it to her to explore the option more completely and also see how her situation lies when she finds herself 6 months pregnant. There are 2 sides of every coin.

I think starting off with, "Maybe my husband is a greater man than some (at least, I think so), but in his opinion, if one of us couldn't raise our girls, we would live in a 600 sq. ft. apartment and ride a bike everywhere. " may have set the wrong tone, then, for your post. I do raise my daughter. Day care doesn't raise my daughter. That's a pretty sore subject, and points towards your belittling belief structure of my daughter going to day care. While you don't think you said it, you did say it, in my interpretation.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me. Thank you.

Brandie

[Chicago526]

;) I guess Iam one of the lucky ones..Chicago, I don't leave that far from you, Iam in Lombard, we've been married for 22 years and 2 girls 20 and 13, I havent worked since I was pregnant with my first. I worked a couple part time jobs, but its not worth it, I'd rather be home when my kids need me. My husband sometimes complains about what he DOESNT have instead of being grateful for what he DOES have. :confused3 I have to remind him all the big boy toys he has and the second home in Michigan, and all the Disney vacations we go on. He feels that after being self employed for the past 24 years that he should of accomplished more. I would give up all the material things we have to have him healthy again. He was diagnosed with cancer over 3 years ago..All the money in the world wouldnt make me happier then seeing him cancer free.:sad1:

:hug: I'm so sorry to hear about that! My DH struggles with diabetes, and I'm very thankfull that he is healthy most of the time. You're right, no money in the world equals good health!

[Ava31]

Whoa! I did NOT intend to have this thead be about working vs stay-at-home parenting!

This is about the ability to make that choice, not which choice is right or wrong (and for the record, neither choice is wrong!)

I'm sorry for any inflammatory comments I unwittingly made. I read the post about husbands being resentful and I felt compelled to add my 2 cents. My 2nd post was meant as a defense for the statements made in the previous post that I felt were taken wrong. What a convoluted paragraph!

That said, I just wish I could talk your DH into moving to Texas! My uncle just bought a house in Wauconda (sp?) that is about 1500 sq. ft. smaller than my in-laws house and he paid about $125,000 more!

Good luck making the choices that are right for you. As ckoncurat said, sometimes God or whatever fateful force you believe in, makes your decision for you. I have a friend that got laid off at 3 months post-partum and she spent the first week feeling like the world is against her and then the next week figuring out how they would ever afford to live and the 3rd week she found her groove. She discovered thrift shops, coupons, traded her car in for a cheaper, more economical model and started cooking dinner at home and lo and behold, they've made it for the past 2 years with her not working.

[LoveBWVVBR]

OP, it's a choice. You can always move to a less-expensive area and be a homeowner AND a SAHM. If you choose to stay in an expensive area, you also probably choose to remain a 2 income family.

FWIW, we moved to a much cheaper area (from Boston area to FL) before we started a family. Our cost of living is half of what it was, so we don't miss my salary at all. I'm a SAHM, we save much more than we ever did in MA, etc. We can afford to send our kids to private school here when the time comes, we max. out our retirement and we can still contribute a very decent amount to our child(ren)'s college fund every year. It's all about choices, and you DO have choices. If you decide that you want to be a SAHM when the time comes, then you can evaluate your choices and decide what you have to compromise on (moving, probably) to make it happen.

[photo_chick]

I know I am lucky to get to stay at home with my kids. I know my mom had to work when I was younger. She did not have a choice really. When we bought our house it was based off of DH's income at that time. We could have afforded more house than we bought, but in hindsight I am sooooooo glad we actually bought less than we could afford. DH was in web design and made really good money. Then the web market crashed and he ended up switching fields to game development. He took a pretty big salary cut in doing that. That was 2 years ago and just now he makes what he did when we bought the house. Because we bought a house below our means, have a rule for only one car payment (under $300-- only 7 left until no car payments!!!!), and have eliminated our credt card debt almost completely (call the cc companies, they will work to help you do this-- we have gone from 20,000 in cc debt to less than 3,000 in just over 2 years), and we cut out cell phones, scaled back our cable and phone service, stopped spending so much.... I have not had to think seriously about working. Not to say I don't do anything at all. I shoot kid portraits here and there for a little extra cash but no tenough to make any real diference (I made about $500 last year :lmao: ). DH also takes commisions to illustrate peoples toons on City of Heroes, but he loves doing that so it is more fun for him than work.

Now that my DS is getting older I do think when he starts kindergarten I might see about substitute teaching for the school district a few days a week. BUt I want to go back to school to finish my degree, so my working will be paying some of my tuition.

Now have there been times that this has been hard...yes. At the moment my car is sitting in the driveway not running (ok, in all fairness it does run well you just can't get it started). We have opted to wait to fix it until our tax refund gets here. Not a big deal for us, I just walk to take DD to school an tote the kids in the wagon. This has the added benifits of helping the environment and making my butt look fantastic! (2 miles total a day will do that ;) ) There have been times we have had to tell the kids no on things we really wanted to say yes to. Then also I am a spender (how we got the cc debt) and I have had to come to terms with being happy with what I have, not with what I don't. That has made a huge difference as well!

Also through all of this DH has always felt that I should be at home with the kids if that is what I want. He has never made me feel like I should be contributing financially, even when I was in denial and charged more than I should!

[Va-bear]

... I am glad you got to see your children's firsts - I did, too, unless my dh beat me to it! HOWEVER, I will never forget the look on my dd's (6 years old) when, four weeks ago, she helped me get dressed in my nicest suit and my beautiful pearls - so I could go to a face-to-face meeting with the President of the United States. She looked at me in awe and couldn't wait to tell her friends and teacher that her mother - her MOTHER - was sitting across from the President. The pride she took in presenting me to her Daisy troop to discuss the legislative process was breathtaking. I'm glad my daughter got to have that moment. Different strokes, I guess...

I'm SO GLAD to have read your post! I have always read SAHM threads and thought am I the only one who doesn't see staying home as simply a matter of if one can afford it or not? I want my sons (and any future daughters) to see that mom's can not only be amazing mom's but bring home the bacon too. I also want them to see that I WANT to do those things. While, I imagine I'll never meet the president (very cool, BTW :thumbsup2 ) you can see the pride that they feel that their mommy is a scientist and is trying, in her VERYsmall way, to help cure cancer (I'm a very lowely scientist and will never cure cancer - the joy is in the trying - as I find putting in a good days work anywhere very joyful and rewarding.) Raising kids is the greatest, most important job any of us can have.....but showing them that there is a big world out there to help take care of is important to me too.

I also completely agree w/ the person who said having dad home as much as possible is not only the most FAIR thing, it is a HUGE benefit to our children. We could get by if he worked just a few days of overtime a month, but the trade-off of having a dad who wasnt home as much, and when he was home was more tired, is not right to me. And, yes, my DH does his share...if he didnt I would talk to him and explain he needed to do more... No mom should have to carry all of the burden - as no dad should. "Teamwork" is a big word at our house.

Great discussion!

[CarolA]

Ava31 - How lovely for you and your husband that you both have found a happy medium. So have most families. I am glad you got to see your children's firsts - I did, too, unless my dh beat me to it! HOWEVER, I will never forget the look on my dd's (6 years old) when, four weeks ago, she helped me get dressed in my nicest suit and my beautiful pearls - so I could go to a face-to-face meeting with the President of the United States. She looked at me in awe and couldn't wait to tell her friends and teacher that her mother - her MOTHER - was sitting across from the President. The pride she took in presenting me to her Daisy troop to discuss the legislative process was breathtaking. I'm glad my daughter got to have that moment. Different strokes, I guess...


That is SO COOL!

One of my best memories is watching my mother walk across the stage at the University of Tennessee to get her diploma. I was seven or so. My mom went back to school when I entered school (my baby brother was in a day care while she was in class) That influenced me SO much....

It's funny but several years ago one of my friends and I were talking and for some reason I told that story. (My friend was a "welfare" success story. She was left alone by her worthless ex and realized that if she ever wanted to have a decent life she needed a good job so off to college. I wonder if the DIS would have had her stay with the jerk so she could "stay at home"? ) Her daughter was about 6 when she graduated. So I tell my story and my friends 17 year old daughter pipes up... "that's when I KNEW I was going to college too" My friend had never heard her say that, but it was true... So it's not just the "staying at home" that influences your kids. (And for the most part my mom was a stay at home mom, but I look back on that moment when she crossed that stage as having made one of the great impressions of my life)

And as you so eleoquent point out it's NOT always a choice of "moving to a low cost area"!!!!

[sk!mom]

[QUOTE=Ava31;17708840]Maybe my husband is a greater man than some (at least, I think so), but in his opinion, if one of us couldn't raise our girls, we would live in a 600 sq. ft. apartment and ride a bike everywhere.
/QUOTE]

It's judgemental comments like this that turn threads ugly.

I'm happy for you that you and your DH are able to agree and do what works for your family. However, (big however) to insult those who have made different choices by saying that your DH is a "greater man" is ridiculous and highly inflammatory.

My DH is a wonderful father and partner and rather than insult you, I am glad that we all have the right to make whatever choices work for our families.

The biggest reason that I work is future benefits. My children will not have to worry about DH and I as we age. DH and I both had a SAHM and we would have preferred that they had worked so that Dh's childhood had been a little brighter and we wouldn't now be as worried about both sets of parents as they are unprepared for their later years.

Bottom line- As in most areas of life, there is not a "right" answer. We all make the choices that work for our families.

[gris gris]

I have a question for those of you who have moved - did you leave family behind?? DH & I are struggling with this. We live in CT and last year I was laid off from my job (I was the breadwinner). We went from making over $100,000 to this year we might clear $50,000. I'm working part time now in a doctor's office and spending a whole lot more time with my kids and I'm loving it. Corporate America is long gone for me as is all of it's perks.

Anyhow we'd love to move - DH's work is seasonal because of the winter. This year we spent $8,000 from our savings to survive. We're working on a plan to fix this for next winter. However, DH wants to move south so badly he brings it up at least on a weekly basis.

I'd love to move - I don't enjoy CT, I don't like the weather here, I'm a hot weather kind of girl and I wouldn't mind a cheaper way of life. BUT....my parents live down the street from us, I'm incredibly close to them and couldn't imagine picking up and moving my family miles away. If my parents would go with us, we'd be leaving tomorrow. I grew up very close to my grandparents and couldn't have imagined not seeing them whenever I wanted to.

To make it worse, DH's parents who now live 1 hour away from us might be moving to Richmond, VA soon. DH wants to go with them!

So if you left your family, how did it go? I know I'd love living in a new place, but would be miserable without my parents.

[MrsPete]

I found your post pretty offensive . . . She loves her day care, and adores her best friends . . . Fiona sees day care as a full day's playdate with a ton of toys . . .My daughters are past day care age, but they also LOVED their time there. In fact, the day care the youngest attended is attached to a large church, which also has a Christian school -- and both my girls started school there. For a long time, when I'd pick them up after school, they'd often beg to go down to the day care end of the building and "say hello" to their old day care teachers. They flourished in day care.

Another thing that annoys me is people who say they want to "raise their own children". Why would people think that a mom who doesn't change every diaper herself doesn't raise her own child? My children spent more time with me (and my husband) than they did at day care; while we've been blessed to have some outstanding day care providers, we have certainly been the ones in charge of our children's lives.

Now that my kids are older, it's evident that they're smart, funny, well-adjusted, creative, and well-mannered. To imply that I did anything wrong -- or that I made a second-class choice for them -- by using day care when they were younger is just foolish; anyone who knows them would laugh at that idea.

[MrsPete]

I found your post pretty offensive . . . She loves her day care, and adores her best friends . . . Fiona sees day care as a full day's playdate with a ton of toys . . .My daughters are past day care age, but they also LOVED their time there. In fact, the day care the youngest attended is attached to a large church, which also has a Christian school -- and both my girls started school there. For a long time, when I'd pick them up after school, they'd often beg to go down to the day care end of the building and "say hello" to their old day care teachers. They flourished in day care.

Another thing that annoys me is people who say they want to "raise their own children". Why would people think that a mom who doesn't change every diaper herself doesn't raise her own child? My children spent more time with me (and my husband) than they did at day care; while we've been blessed to have some outstanding day care providers, we have certainly been the ones in charge of our children's lives.

Now that my kids are older, it's evident that they're smart, funny, well-adjusted, creative, and well-mannered. To imply that I did anything wrong -- or that I made a second-class choice for them -- by using day care when they were younger is just foolish; anyone who knows them would laugh at that idea.

[ducklite]

I was living near my family and moved three hours away to be with DH when we first got together--before we were married.

Then we moved four hours from either of our families for better jobs. We actually moved to a much higher cost of living area, but the job opportunities where we were living were dismal, and although the cost of living was higher in NJ, the pay was a lot higher than in Syracuse. I left a $7 an hour job in Syracuse and within three weeks of landing in NJ was making $20 an hour doing the same thing. We went from renting a 3BR townhome for $600/mo to a 2 BR apartment for $1000/mo, but in the long run were were much better off financially, because our incomes tripled.

I became unhappy--actually miserable describes it better--in NJ, and left a very, very good job as far as salary, and took a job that I love that pays 60% LESS. Fortunately DH is still working for his NJ employer, he can telecommute part of the month and he spends part of the month in NJ--and abscence does make the heart grow fonder--and he's still making NJ income.

Even when we lived near our families we didn't see them that often. I'm not on the greatest of terms with my in-laws, and my mom is a social butterfly--you need to get on her calendar a couple months in advance. :rotfl: :confused3 :cutie: So moving far away wasn't that big of a deal. I'm happier now than I've been in just about forever!

Anne

[MrsPete]

Actually, this isn't as true as people think it is.

Before WWII plenty of women did work - but society was much more rural. Was my great grandmother - putting lunch on the table for 30 farmhands during planting an harvest - watching her own kids? No, she was too busy running a farm, in partnership with my great grandfather. Then, as now, there were huge class issues as well - my immigrant great grandmothers on the other side all worked as well - in stockyards and factories - or at home doing peicework. Remember those stories about "taking in laundry or mending" - those were jobs. During the depression, anyone who could get a job did for the most part, if that was Mom or Dad - so the 1930s are an abberation (with negative inflation, btw). The Keating Owns act was 1916 - which was the first attempt on a national level to regulate child labor.

The heyday of the "homemaker" was post WWII - when factory jobs paid enough that we had a middle class that was really unknown before. The 1920s were pretty good for stay at home Mom's too, post war boom economy made one income possible. But buy and large during the industrial age, its been pretty much the 50/50 proposition it pretty much is today.

A really good book about this is "The Way We Never Were" by Stephanie Koontz. Its a little dated.Yeah, the idea of SAHMs as "doing the old-fahioned thing" isn't really accurate. Looking back across American history, most moms would be -- as you described -- more like work at home moms. They either helped their husbands farm, took in work like sewing/laundry, or worked with their husbands in the family store or restaurant.

Even those who didn't "work" in this way had a good bit more work than today's housewife: vegetables were largely homegrown and canned or preserved, clothing was often hand-made, and housework of all types required more effort without modern appliances. In short, their lives didn't really compare with our lives today.

It was not until the 50s that the concept of homemaker or stay-at-home-mom as we know it today originated. It was not until that point that middle-class men could afford to support a wife and children in the way we look at it today. It wasn't until the 50s that a SAHM's life really revolved around the children. The middle class SAHM thing as a standard across American really only existed in the 50s and 60s -- only two decades out of our country's entire history.

On the other hand, you can make an argument that society has changed today, and while we today zip through chores that required hours of drugery in the past (i.e., laundry, baking our own bread, etc.), children can't be allowed to "go out and play" the way they could in the past . . . on the other hand, kids' activities and care exist in great numbers, something that wasn't true in the past.

[mytwotinks]

I read these threads and I wonder... if the working DH's were posting would they think it was worth it.... the overtime, the 12-14 hour days etc?

I chose not to have kids so I don't know, but I do have several male friends who honestly seem to resent their wives who "get to stay home" and expect them to "pay all the bills" And yes, some of these wives do a LOT of community work and attempt to live frugually (and some don't) but that doesn't seem to make much of a difference when the men start telling tales.....

This is exactly why it is important to make sure that the person you are marrying has the same ideas that you do! I can promise you that my dh (a very hardworking fireman/paramedic) is not resentful of me being home with our kids. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but I do know that there are many many hardworking Daddies out there that are doing it for the sole reason that it is what they want for their families.

I know a lot of women who are resentful of their dh's for not allowing them to stay home with their babies. These are decisions that need to be made before you marry!!!!

[Ava31]

I'm happy for you that you and your DH are able to agree and do what works for your family. However, (big however) to insult those who have made different choices by saying that your DH is a "greater man" is ridiculous and highly inflammatory.

Bottom line- As in most areas of life, there is not a "right" answer. We all make the choices that work for our families.

If you re-read my post, you'll see that in that statement, I was responding to the quote that I had included from a previous post. The quote referred to men being resentful that their SAH wives don't work.

I agree that there is no right answer, and I never once mentioned that anyone was doing anything wrong.


Now that my kids are older, it's evident that they're smart, funny, well-adjusted, creative, and well-mannered. To imply that I did anything wrong -- or that I made a second-class choice for them -- by using day care when they were younger is just foolish; anyone who knows them would laugh at that idea.

Again, re-read my post with an open mind, not one that assumes that I'm pointing fingers and you'll see that I'm merely stating what has been best for my family. Read a little bit further down and maybe you'll see my post that explains some of the comments by which people seem to be offended.

[disneysteve]

The heyday of the "homemaker" was post WWII - when factory jobs paid enough that we had a middle class that was really unknown before. The 1920s were pretty good for stay at home Mom's too, post war boom economy made one income possible. But buy and large during the industrial age, its been pretty much the 50/50 proposition it pretty much is today.
Just the other day, ABC news reported on a new study that showed that parents today actually spend MORE time with their kids today than they did 40 years ago, which is exactly opposite of what people tend to think.

Here's the story:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2969095&page=1

"Today's moms, whether they work outside the home or not, are cutting corners. Time spent on housework — namely cooking and cleaning — is down 40 percent in the last four decades.

"Mothers in the past may have been in the home, but they weren't necessarily focused on children," University of Maryland sociologist Suzanne Bianchi said. "Today, particularly for working parents, housework slides. They focus on children."

Over time, a mother's job description has changed.

Moms in the '60s didn't think twice about letting kids run off and play by themselves, but today mothers are fully integrated into their kids' lives as homework tutors, air traffic controllers and chauffeurs."

I think this is very true. Our society today is much more kid-centered. And housework is definitely a much lower priority than it was for my mother when I was a kid. Also, at least around here, kids don't play unsupervised like we did growing up. I would get home from school, do my homework, eat dinner and then be outside until dark. My parents hardly saw me. Today, DD is in the house with us all evening. We do things together, whether it is playing a game, baking, or just watching tv. We definitely spend more time with her than our parents did with us.

[hsmamato2]

I have a question for those of you who have moved - did you leave family behind?? DH & I are struggling with this. We live in CT and last year I was laid off from my job (I was the breadwinner). We went from making over $100,000 to this year we might clear $50,000. I'm working part time now in a doctor's office and spending a whole lot more time with my kids and I'm loving it. Corporate America is long gone for me as is all of it's perks.



we live in Ct,rest assured,you can live here on that level of income,though,granted,it'd be easier in GA,or MO,or the like...;) I've also stayed with the kids our entire marriage,and homeschooled etc. That was a choice,and not so easy to do in CT...I agree- my family lives here,my friends,all the things that make life 'just right' so here we stay,for now!
We also have chosen our home VERY carefully,there are good deals to be had,even here:rotfl: but you do have to work for them,big time!
So I guess I'm no good to answer your question, b/c I don't want to move to where the cost of living is cheaper, it would mean giving up a lot for me,and I know this as I make my choices in life....IF it came down to eating or moving,our choice would be simple...but till then...
so we make do,and have a good life here in expensive CT, where our loved ones are. We also live a lot more simply than average families,by choice.

[crjack]

Just the other day, ABC news reported on a new study that showed that parents today actually spend MORE time with their kids today than they did 40 years ago, which is exactly opposite of what people tend to think.

Here's the story:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2969095&page=1

"Today's moms, whether they work outside the home or not, are cutting corners. Time spent on housework — namely cooking and cleaning — is down 40 percent in the last four decades.

"Mothers in the past may have been in the home, but they weren't necessarily focused on children," University of Maryland sociologist Suzanne Bianchi said. "Today, particularly for working parents, housework slides. They focus on children."

Over time, a mother's job description has changed.

Moms in the '60s didn't think twice about letting kids run off and play by themselves, but today mothers are fully integrated into their kids' lives as homework tutors, air traffic controllers and chauffeurs."

I think this is very true. Our society today is much more kid-centered. And housework is definitely a much lower priority than it was for my mother when I was a kid. Also, at least around here, kids don't play unsupervised like we did growing up. I would get home from school, do my homework, eat dinner and then be outside until dark. My parents hardly saw me. Today, DD is in the house with us all evening. We do things together, whether it is playing a game, baking, or just watching tv. We definitely spend more time with her than our parents did with us.


I think this is so true, at least based on my childhood. We would be out all day in our neighborhood and had to come home when the street lights came on! We rode our bikes to everything we needed to get to.

Families were also much larger when I was growning up. I'm 41 and DH and I both come from large families with lots of siblings. (typical in our area for our age) Our parents were great but we shared them with a lot of brothers and sisters. We also had grandparents with us at some point that needed care. We never felt neglected but we were much more independent than my own kids are at the same age.

[LoveBWVVBR]

I have a question for those of you who have moved - did you leave family behind?? DH & I are struggling with this.

Yes, we did leave family behind. While they weren't thrilled, they have come to understand and respect the fact that we needed to do what was best for our family. They visit frequently now that we have DD, and, as it turns out, they like our area so much that they're looking at spending part of the year down here! Yep, they're going to be snowbirds:scared1:

[spima3]

This is exactly why it is important to make sure that the person you are marrying has the same ideas that you do! I can promise you that my dh (a very hardworking fireman/paramedic) is not resentful of me being home with our kids. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but I do know that there are many many hardworking Daddies out there that are doing it for the sole reason that it is what they want for their families.
I know a lot of women who are resentful of their dh's for not allowing them to stay home with their babies. These are decisions that need to be made before you marry!!!!

This is so very true. I have often worked part time periodically throughout the years, but my husband would have preferred me to stay home full time.
I thought I wanted to work full time before the kids were born, but after some really traumatic events I realized I didn't want to miss that much time in their lives. Having a husband who was supportive in that made for a much happier marriage and life. So the little extra I brought in became $ for extras, but we primarily lived on one income, and a modest one at that.
Doing so requires a real downshift in lifestyle that I don't think a lot of people are willing to make, especially today. And I have seen a lot of the younger guys, especially, who expect their wives to work full time no matter what. That too can breed a lot of resentment. They end up using the second income for all the "toys" and the wives end up supporting the lifestyle when they would rather be home with their kids. Again, not always the case but it is the flip side.

lori

[lpandorf]

I think this is so true, at least based on my childhood. We would be out all day in our neighborhood and had to come home when the street lights came on! We rode our bikes to everything we needed to get to.

Families were also much larger when I was growning up. I'm 41 and DH and I both come from large families with lots of siblings. (typical in our area for our age) Our parents were great but we shared them with a lot of brothers and sisters. We also had grandparents with us at some point that needed care. We never felt neglected but we were much more independent than my own kids are at the same age.

I've been reading this post with a lot of interest and the above sounds much like my childhood. I'd be out playing all day long and my parents would not see much of us. When the streetlights come on then time to go in. I talked to my husband and he said he and his two brothers were the same way - out on bikes all day. Even when we were in with my Mom (SAHM) she did not spend much time at all with us. Our house was immaculate and we had nice meals but I don't recall her really playing much or reading with us like I do with my kids. My Dad worked a lot but I remember him playing and doing more with us. Sometimes I feel bad my kids can't run with a pack of kids like we did but my husband and I just don't feel comfortable with this.

[Trixie15]

Hi! I just wanted to post quickly to say that it could be possible for you to have a one-income lifestyle and not have to move across country to get it. I see you live in Elgin - I live in Steger which is a tiny suburb a bit south of the southern-most suburbs. It could be that you would only have to move to a different suburb of Chicago, after all, there are a BUNCH of places near enough to downtown that could work for you. Is moving out of Elgin but still near Chicago an option for your family?

I will say that we have had to sacrifice some things in order for me to stay home - I do think it would be hard almost anywhere to live the high life on one income unless that one income is pretty high.

Hugs!

[dcfromva]

To address the "people used to be able to live on one income" issue, there are several factors that contributed, and honestly there was only a kind of short span of time when it was the norm, from the late 1930's to the mid-1970's. During WW2, wages surpassed the cost of living rather quickly because of the industrial ramp up and the shortage of manufactured goods to spend that money on. That contributed to a very high savings rate coming out of the war. If you ask someone who bought a house in the 1950's about it, find out what the ratio of the price of the house was to annual household income. In most markets at the time, a house cost no more than about 18 months' gross for the average worker in the community.

I was thinking about this, too. There are a lot of things that have changed out in the workplace from the previous generation that makes it more difficult to live on one income. It seems a lot of the expense and risk of retirement benefits have been shifted off to the employee--without increasing the wages to make up for it. It is becoming more rare to have defined benefit pensions. This means that folks have to fund their own retirement out of their own pocket. Back in the "olden days", when you could count on a pension (and SS)--you typically saved 10% of your income for retirement. Nowadays--in light of no pension (and probably reduced SS benefits) it is probably more realistic to save 20% (or more) in your 401K. (It seems you are pretty lucky if you can find an employer who also contributes a decent match.) And, the employee takes on all the risk if there is a downturn in the market, you might have to wait to retire.

Then, there is the cost of saving for collge for the kids (if you are planning to pick up the college expense for your kids)--which has outpaced the inflation rate.

Another aspect is health care. Again, more of the expense has been put on the employee. If you are lucky enough to get coverage in the first place, you have higher premiums, higher co-pays and deductibles. You almost need two insurances to cover the cost of health care.

-DC

[bunny]

I think another reason why more women work outside of the home is due to the woman's movement in the 1960s. Alot more women are college educated and now have the ability to earn an income rivaling that of a man's. I do not work to pay for my husband's toys. I contribute more than 50% of the household income. We talk about saving for our children's college education but then look down on the girls who want to be more than a stay at home mom. Most of the SAHMs I know do so because their income potential is relatively small anyway. I don't know anyone with an advanced degree that stays at home. Most people assume the husband makes a lot more money than a wife. Furthermore, would anyone expect a man who is a doctor, lawyer, banker, etc to quit his job and stay at home as soon as his baby is born? No but if you are a woman you are questioned.

To the OP, if you really want to stay at home, pray about it. And start taking little steps to making it happen. Make a long range plan. One of my professors told us in business (and in life) the best thing to remember is "Fail to plan, plan to fail."

For me, even though, I would have liked to work less when my children were babies, I know can see the light at the end of the tunnel. My husband and I will be able to retire in our mid 50s.

[hsmamato2]

Most of the SAHMs I know do so because their income potential is relatively small anyway. I don't know anyone with an advanced degree that stays at home. Most people assume the husband makes a lot more money than a wife. Furthermore, would anyone expect a man who is a doctor, lawyer, banker, etc to quit his job and stay at home as soon as his baby is born? No but if you are a woman you are questioned.


Hmmmm, I don't agree with that part... I know quite a few highly educated women who've CHOSEN to stay home vs either furthuring or continuing their careers,sometimes even for many years within the homeschool community. I also know some families who've chosen this,and share equal time with kids/working.
In my own case, any income I'd have made DOES NOT MATTER TO ME-
I knew I would make adjustments in my life,b/c this is where my priorities lay.
money can be made at any stage of life practically, but when we chose to have our kids,we knew it would be a transitory experience lasting but a few years,before the main part of our parenting job was done-:grouphug:
But I also know that other families who've made other choices love their kids equally as much as I do...

[DawnM]

Bunny,

Hi. I have TWO Master's Degrees and worked for 16 years and quit while I was making $70K plus full health and retirement benefits. I made more than DH because even though his salary was 75K it did not include health or retirement and we had to pay almost 10K of his salary toward that alone.

Granted I am thinking of going back to work, but since you said you didn't know anyone with an advanced degree not working....I thought I would introduce myself! You now know someone!

Dawn

I think another reason why more women work outside of the home is due to the woman's movement in the 1960s. Alot more women are college educated and now have the ability to earn an income rivaling that of a man's. I do not work to pay for my husband's toys. I contribute more than 50% of the household income. We talk about saving for our children's college education but then look down on the girls who want to be more than a stay at home mom. Most of the SAHMs I know do so because their income potential is relatively small anyway. I don't know anyone with an advanced degree that stays at home. Most people assume the husband makes a lot more money than a wife. Furthermore, would anyone expect a man who is a doctor, lawyer, banker, etc to quit his job and stay at home as soon as his baby is born? No but if you are a woman you are questioned.

To the OP, if you really want to stay at home, pray about it. And start taking little steps to making it happen. Make a long range plan. One of my professors told us in business (and in life) the best thing to remember is "Fail to plan, plan to fail."

For me, even though, I would have liked to work less when my children were babies, I know can see the light at the end of the tunnel. My husband and I will be able to retire in our mid 50s.

[robsmom]

Bunny,

Hi. I have TWO Master's Degrees and worked for 16 years and quit while I was making $70K plus full health and retirement benefits. I made more than DH because even though his salary was 75K it did not include health or retirement and we had to pay almost 10K of his salary toward that alone.

Dawn

I believe that everyone's life is different and there is no right or wrong answer to this. That said i admire greatly those like you who do the sahm route as a true choice and sacrifice. I struggle with those for whom it is not worth it for them to work and pay child care but then still like to carry the torch of sacrificing to be a SAHM. I admit to being sexist because the group i actually admire the most are dads who don't make that much money and stay home while mom works. That said, i guess i would really really admire the man with six figure salary who chooses to be a stay at home dad if i ever met one but don't think i ever will!!

[punkin]

Most of the SAHMs I know do so because their income potential is relatively small anyway. I don't know anyone with an advanced degree that stays at home.

Hmm. I stay home and I have a law degree. When I quit (oldest DD was 6 and youngest was 6 months), I made roughly 40% of our household income and had a very high future potential.

At the time it was the right choice for us. I am now ready to go back to work, but no one is ready to hire me. Too much time away from working. (I knew that would be the case when I quit).

[girlegirl7101]

Hi all, I just wanted to give some light in on how my family is making it. We are a young married couple, i am 23 and my husband is 25. We have 3 children, 3,2, and 6 months. I have been staying home since my before my 2yr old was born. The first year was very very hard. We did have to use some cc. When my middle son turned 1 my husband looked into another job, Which he decided to try for( and is now doing). He joined the laborers union and doubled his income. Yes during the spring and summer and some fall he works ungodly amount of hours. But he was always home for dinner and got to put the kids to bed with me. The nice thing about his job is during the winter he is layed off. So he is home for about 2 months strait! That is when we just took our disney trip in feb.( our first one). By the way we cut everthing back, we have cell phones yet share 700 min($63) we got ride of long dis on our house phone. and we cut our cable back to the $14 dollar plan. I use coupons everwhere we go, Chuckecheese, movies, dinner. We live in a small town in Ca so all the dinners have coupons. Also our movie thearter has TIGHT WAD DAY..lol 3 dollars for a movie! And the casino that is in this town has comedy night which is free. So there is always a way but it may be hard a first.
My advice is try and cut back on stuff, and try and save your paychecks, as much as you can for as long as you can just to see how much your really need to be able to make it. Hey at the end of a year you can go to disney if you relized its not going to work..lol

[MrsPete]

I think another reason why more women work outside of the home is due to the woman's movement in the 1960s.And a related topic: LOTS of women found themselves "betrayed" by the SAH concept in the 60s and 70s. They married, had children, and stayed home, assuming that marriage was forever and their man would take care of them. About the same time, society decided it was acceptable for women to both work and be mothers, society also decided that divorce was okay -- suddenly personal fulfillment became more important than commitment to spouse and family. So LOTS of middle-aged women found themselves "suddenly single" with a houseful of children, no real education, no work history, and no real hope of catching up financially. My mother was one of these women, as were more than a few of her friends.

I think we younger women have watched this happen, and we're smarter: I think fewer women find themselves in this situation these days. Sure, divorces are more common than ever, but at least today's women don't have their eyes shut to the possibility, and they're not blindsided by it.

[Maybelle]

I think another reason why more women work outside of the home is due to the woman's movement in the 1960s. Alot more women are college educated and now have the ability to earn an income rivaling that of a man's. I do not work to pay for my husband's toys. I contribute more than 50% of the household income. We talk about saving for our children's college education but then look down on the girls who want to be more than a stay at home mom. Most of the SAHMs I know do so because their income potential is relatively small anyway. I don't know anyone with an advanced degree that stays at home. Most people assume the husband makes a lot more money than a wife. Furthermore, would anyone expect a man who is a doctor, lawyer, banker, etc to quit his job and stay at home as soon as his baby is born? No but if you are a woman you are questioned.

To the OP, if you really want to stay at home, pray about it. And start taking little steps to making it happen. Make a long range plan. One of my professors told us in business (and in life) the best thing to remember is "Fail to plan, plan to fail."

For me, even though, I would have liked to work less when my children were babies, I know can see the light at the end of the tunnel. My husband and I will be able to retire in our mid 50s.

I totally disagree with this first paragraph. I would make quite a bit more than my dh if I were to be working full time. We chose for me to cut my hours in half to be home more for the past 9 years, and it has been a blessing to me. And I know MANY highly educated womenwho have decreased their hours or quit work for a season in life to be home with their kids.

I do not look down on anyone for the choices they make. I think you make the best choices for your family that you can make at any one particular point in time.

Having said that, It really saddens me to read the last paragraph from the above poster that she wihes she could have been home more when her kids were babies. I think a lot of women are in that boat looking back. I didn't want to face that, so we worked hard on cutting back so I could be at home more. It hasn't been easy by any means, but we make it work, and the little thing we may go without at times are worth it for me to be home more.

I think the two key words are: Priorities and Contentment. In our society it is very uncommon for people to be "content" without things like cable tv, two cars, eating out....but if you put it in perspective, we in America are only about 6% of the world's population, but use up about 40% of the world's resources. Just consider that about 92% of the world's population does not own a car, then look at Americans. My point...contentment. We are already rich by a worldwide standpoint, but we fail to realize it because of all the targeted advertising convincing us we need "more."

Sorry, I'll climb back off my soapbox now. I just think that we as a society need to look at our priorities and our level of contentment or lack thereof and take a step back.

[Shanan]

I could never stay at home for one reason - health insurance. DH works for a small company where health insurance is not included or provided by the company. I am 40 years old and considered uninsurable. I work at a larger company to have insurance for both me and DH. The insurance (HSA) is not the best so yes I am keeping my eyes open for another job.

[GraysMom]

DH and I decided before we got married that I would stay home (if possible) until our child was in elementary school. I worked in 2 different and well regarded daycares before getting a teaching position in a public school. From what I saw at those daycares (nothing reportable, just a lot of lack of caring/high turnover/bad apples, etc), we knew we wouldn't feel comfortable putting our child in daycare.

For those who say daycare isn't raising their kids, for some people daycare pretty much is raising their kids. There were quite a number of children who spent 12 hours a day (open to close), 5 days a week in daycare. Till they got home, ate dinner, and took a bath, it was bedtime. So basically the kids really only got quality time with their parents on the weekends. We have friends who have two toddlers in daycare. Both parents work FT about an hour away from home (and the daycare). So add at least 2 hours of commute time (usually more since they are on accident prone highways) to their full time work schedule, and it doesn't leave much time for bonding and cuddling (kids have to been in bed early so they can get up early for daycare).

[spima3]

<snip>
For those who say daycare isn't raising their kids, for some people daycare pretty much is raising their kids. There were quite a number of children who spent 12 hours a day (open to close), 5 days a week in daycare. Till they got home, ate dinner, and took a bath, it was bedtime. So basically the kids really only got quality time with their parents on the weekends. We have friends who have two toddlers in daycare. Both parents work FT about an hour away from home (and the daycare).

Yes, I know of families like this and wonder why they even bothered to have children; the kids just don't seem to fit into their lifestyles. The worst case was of my one boss. He owned the company, his wife also owned her own company. Their two little ones were in daycare 10 hours a day, then they often had babysitters watch them in the evenings. Then they would have people in to watch the kids so they could take business trips on the weekends, or "they" would need time away as a couple.
Well 5 years into this lifestyle and their 4 1/2 year old actually had a massive breakdown one morning. They finally started cutting back their hours and spending more time with their kids, but what a shame it took something so horrible to happen before realizing the toll their lifestyle was taking on their children.

lori

[bunny]

I should change my statement to say MOST of the moms I know that are SAHMs do not have advanced degrees. For those that responded and said they did have one, do you still feel it was worthwhile to earn that degree? If you are a lawyer for example you spent 7 years in college and probably over $100 thousand to earn that degree. Secondly I do agree that even if you plan on staying home it is a important to have something to fall back on. My grandmother who now would be over 100 if she were still alive lived for over 50 years with a man that abused her and her children. At that time though she had no other options with 5 children. I hope today all woman take advantage of all educational oportunities to insure that never happens to them.

Lastly, would anyone ever expect a man who makes $70,000 or more to quit his job? Especially if his wife made less money. In today economy anyone who can afford to do that whether man or woman is very fortunate. In most families both people need to work to live a comfortable lifestyle.

And I totally disagree that daycare is raising children. I think most of the people who say that have never had a child in daycare. If you go to a daycare, you would see all the children are unique reflections of their own families.

[bunny]

I will say again it is way too simplistic to say that anyone could afford to have one parent stay at home if they just cut back on their lifestyle. If makes me wonder about the income level of the people saying this. Did you really live in a 600 sq ft apt and collect food stamps? How much quitting back is too much?

[spima3]

I believe that everyone's life is different and there is no right or wrong answer to this. That said i admire greatly those like you who do the sahm route as a true choice and sacrifice. I struggle with those for whom it is not worth it for them to work and pay child care but then still like to carry the torch of sacrificing to be a SAHM.

It seems you are trying to say that one's "value" is directly proportional to their income level? That only those with high incomes and make the choice to stay home with their kids deserve respect, but those who aren't, don't?

Anyone who gives up an income is making a financial sacrifice when they stay home w/ their kids. If you are in a moderate income level to begin with, (and I would consider $70K to be high), that loss of income is even more devestating. So for many "lower" income families, it is a significant financial sacrifice.

Yes, for some it doesn't pay to work and pay child care, but I know of women who lose money by working but don't want to do the SAH thing. As their kids age, the financial loss will dissipate and they will have remained in their careers and the advantages that come with that.

I will say the only people who really annoy me are the ones who chose the "toys" and this means big house, big mortgage, vacations, dining out, etc. but lament about how they can't afford to stay home with their kids. This isn't directly related to the OP, but rather people I know everyday. They have chosen the "things" over being able to stay home. Fine if that is what you want, but at least be honest about it.

lori

[DawnM]

It doesn't have to just be divorce. I have friends whose husbands have died unexpectedly or from an illness, others whose husbands have been in accidents and unable to work, etc.....

Dawn

And a related topic: LOTS of women found themselves "betrayed" by the SAH concept in the 60s and 70s. They married, had children, and stayed home, assuming that marriage was forever and their man would take care of them. About the same time, society decided it was acceptable for women to both work and be mothers, society also decided that divorce was okay -- suddenly personal fulfillment became more important than commitment to spouse and family. So LOTS of middle-aged women found themselves "suddenly single" with a houseful of children, no real education, no work history, and no real hope of catching up financially. My mother was one of these women, as were more than a few of her friends.

I think we younger women have watched this happen, and we're smarter: I think fewer women find themselves in this situation these days. Sure, divorces are more common than ever, but at least today's women don't have their eyes shut to the possibility, and they're not blindsided by it.

[DawnM]

I hear you. I have only been out of the work force for 2 years but I am having a different sort of problem. I am too expensive to hire. If they hire a new hire just out of college they earn about 1/2 of what I would.

At least this is one response I have gotten. I hope this isn't going to be a big problem!

Dawn

Hmm. I stay home and I have a law degree. When I quit (oldest DD was 6 and youngest was 6 months), I made roughly 40% of our household income and had a very high future potential.

At the time it was the right choice for us. I am now ready to go back to work, but no one is ready to hire me. Too much time away from working. (I knew that would be the case when I quit).

[mytwotinks]

I think another reason why more women work outside of the home is due to the woman's movement in the 1960s. Alot more women are college educated and now have the ability to earn an income rivaling that of a man's. I do not work to pay for my husband's toys. I contribute more than 50% of the household income. We talk about saving for our children's college education but then look down on the girls who want to be more than a stay at home mom. Most of the SAHMs I know do so because their income potential is relatively small anyway. I don't know anyone with an advanced degree that stays at home. Most people assume the husband makes a lot more money than a wife. Furthermore, would anyone expect a man who is a doctor, lawyer, banker, etc to quit his job and stay at home as soon as his baby is born? No but if you are a woman you are questioned.

To the OP, if you really want to stay at home, pray about it. And start taking little steps to making it happen. Make a long range plan. One of my professors told us in business (and in life) the best thing to remember is "Fail to plan, plan to fail."

For me, even though, I would have liked to work less when my children were babies, I know can see the light at the end of the tunnel. My husband and I will be able to retire in our mid 50s.

Wow! I find this post pretty insulting. I don't quite understand why it is offensive to a working mom to hear a sahm say that she wants to raise her own kids, but the sahm's are supposed to be o.k. with being referred to as justa sahm. You comenting on women being more than sahm's is no different than a sahm saying she is more of a mom than a working mom.

I haven't noticed anything that negative being said about working moms.

I am not just anything. I work really hard at being a well rounded role model for my girls. My girls see me lead a Bible study at our church, take care of our home, pay our bills, plan special trips for our family, etc........ My values belong to me and are not intended to offend anyone.

[mytwotinks]

It doesn't have to just be divorce. I have friends whose husbands have died unexpectedly or from an illness, others whose husbands have been in accidents and unable to work, etc.....

Dawn

We have planned for this accordingly. Because I stay home we knew that we would need to have much larger insurance policies (on both of us) than if I worked. My dh would be in just as tough a position if he were the one left behind. He is getting free daycare afterall!

[Ava31]

I totally disagree with this first paragraph. I would make quite a bit more than my dh if I were to be working full time. We chose for me to cut my hours in half to be home more for the past 9 years, and it has been a blessing to me. And I know MANY highly educated womenwho have decreased their hours or quit work for a season in life to be home with their kids.

I do not look down on anyone for the choices they make. I think you make the best choices for your family that you can make at any one particular point in time.

Having said that, It really saddens me to read the last paragraph from the above poster that she wihes she could have been home more when her kids were babies. I think a lot of women are in that boat looking back. I didn't want to face that, so we worked hard on cutting back so I could be at home more. It hasn't been easy by any means, but we make it work, and the little thing we may go without at times are worth it for me to be home more.

I think the two key words are: Priorities and Contentment. In our society it is very uncommon for people to be "content" without things like cable tv, two cars, eating out....but if you put it in perspective, we in America are only about 6% of the world's population, but use up about 40% of the world's resources. Just consider that about 92% of the world's population does not own a car, then look at Americans. My point...contentment. We are already rich by a worldwide standpoint, but we fail to realize it because of all the targeted advertising convincing us we need "more."

Sorry, I'll climb back off my soapbox now. I just think that we as a society need to look at our priorities and our level of contentment or lack thereof and take a step back.

Very well said. :cheer2:

[DawnM]

We have too.....but I am still going to try to go back to work. I miss it terribly. I am going stir crazy at home.

Dawn

We have planned for this accordingly. Because I stay home we knew that we would need to have much larger insurance policies (on both of us) than if I worked. My dh would be in just as tough a position if he were the one left behind. He is getting free daycare afterall!

[bunny]

I am so sorry if my post offended anyone. But I think you misunderstood. I was in no way running down SAHMs. I was saying it is harder for moms to make the decision to stay at home if they have a high paying career and/or large school loans. It is easier to make the decision if your wages are not much more than what is needed to pay for daycare. Being a mom whether a SAHM or a working mom is hard work. We all do what is best for our children. Sometimes I actually think women's lib made it harder for moms. You are supposed to get a college education and work a great job but you are also still supposed to do the home duties. If you do this, your children miss out. But if you decide to be a SAHM, you are not totally fulfilling yourself. When you do decide to go back to work, you are penalized with a lower salary. My biggest hero is my mom who stayed at home and provided a wonderful example for us.

[disneysteve]

I will say again it is way too simplistic to say that anyone could afford to have one parent stay at home if they just cut back on their lifestyle. If makes me wonder about the income level of the people saying this. Did you really live in a 600 sq ft apt and collect food stamps? How much quitting back is too much?

Very true. I think anytime any of us post, we speak based on personal experience, since that's all we have to go on. I don't happen to have any friends or family members who are living on food stamps in a 600 sq. ft. apt. but I have no doubt that plenty of people are in that situation. Certainly, being a one-income family might not be feasible for them.

On the other hand, I do have one friend who, when complaining about her job for the umpteenth time, actually said, "I have to work or else we couldn't afford daycare." The idea that if she didn't work, they wouldn't need daycare apparently never occurred to her.

I also know many people who say they NEED both incomes to get by. But I see how they live and how they choose to spend their money and it isn't hard to understand why they need both incomes. If we lived like them, we'd need 2 incomes also.

So all of us form opinions based on what we see around us. I happen to see a lot of people who wish they didn't have to work but have surrounded themselves with a lifestyle that is expensive to maintain. They have to keep working now whether they want to or not. My wife and I, however, decided early on that she would stay at home. As a result, we made, and continue to make, a very conscious effort to live below our means. Yes, I'm a doctor and yes, our means are more than many others, but that doesn't change the underlying situation. To a certain extent, it doesn't matter how much you earn. All that matters is how much you spend. I have many doctor colleagues whose wives work and they live much more expensive lifestyles than us. We choose to be frugal, cook from scratch, pack lunch, shop at thrift shops, take budget vacations, live in an older smaller home... all the stuff we are always talking about around here - in order to continue to have DW be home full time.

We understand that we are very fortunate to be able to have that choice. Not everyone can do it. But I do think there are plenty of people who probably could do it if they really worked at it.

[Maybelle]

Very true. I think anytime any of us post, we speak based on personal experience, since that's all we have to go on. I don't happen to have any friends or family members who are living on food stamps in a 600 sq. ft. apt. but I have no doubt that plenty of people are in that situation. Certainly, being a one-income family might not be feasible for them.

On the other hand, I do have one friend who, when complaining about her job for the umpteenth time, actually said, "I have to work or else we couldn't afford daycare." The idea that if she didn't work, they wouldn't need daycare apparently never occurred to her.

I also know many people who say they NEED both incomes to get by. But I see how they live and how they choose to spend their money and it isn't hard to understand why they need both incomes. If we lived like them, we'd need 2 incomes also.

So all of us form opinions based on what we see around us. I happen to see a lot of people who wish they didn't have to work but have surrounded themselves with a lifestyle that is expensive to maintain. They have to keep working now whether they want to or not. My wife and I, however, decided early on that she would stay at home. As a result, we made, and continue to make, a very conscious effort to live below our means. Yes, I'm a doctor and yes, our means are more than many others, but that doesn't change the underlying situation. To a certain extent, it doesn't matter how much you earn. All that matters is how much you spend. I have many doctor colleagues whose wives work and they live much more expensive lifestyles than us. We choose to be frugal, cook from scratch, pack lunch, shop at thrift shops, take budget vacations, live in an older smaller home... all the stuff we are always talking about around here - in order to continue to have DW be home full time.

We understand that we are very fortunate to be able to have that choice. Not everyone can do it. But I do think there are plenty of people who probably could do it if they really worked at it.

A perfect example of priorities and contentment.:)

By this I am in no way implying that those who choose to work are making the wrong decision because this poster chose to have the mom home, I'm just stating that the couple made a decision, planned for it, and make daily choices to stick to it (priorities). And in living below their means in order to accomplish it are demonstrating contentment with where they are and what they have chosen to do.

Boy, I am feeling like everytihng needs to be justified here.:rolleyes:

[Maybelle]

OK, I have a different question...going back to the question of women getting college degrees at a high price tag, then deciding to stay home...

I'm wondering if part of the underlying problem here is that we (I am guilty of this myself) expect our children, both girls and boys, to go to college. It has become the expectation if you want a decent paying job. Is there anyone out there who, when their little girls say "When I grow up I want to be a doctor." wouldn't jump for joy and provide great encouragement, while knowing all the while that it just "may" be true that you can't have it all? And yet how often do little girls dream and talk about getting married and having lots of kids...I know mine does anyway (she is almost 10, and has decided she will have 4 kids and has their names picked out!;) ). How many of us, when in this discussion with our girls would encourage them, "well, you know, you'll need to go to college first." I don't think it is very common anymore in our society for parents to encourage their girls to grow up and become wives and mothers and to do it proudly.

I'm not saying we shouldn't encourage our girls to aspire to all they want to do. Certainly, they will need to work at some point in their lives, and it is definately easier to get a higher paying job with a college eduction. But I wonder if we (including myself) ever really encourage our girls that it is a great thing to grow up to be wives and mommies?

Just thinking out loud.

[LadyShiva]

OK, I have a different question...going back to the question of women getting college degrees at a high price tag, then deciding to stay home...

......

I'm not saying we shouldn't encourage our girls to aspire to all they want to do. Certainly, they will need to work at some point in their lives, and it is definately easier to get a higher paying job with a college eduction. But I wonder if we (including myself) ever really encourage our girls that it is a great thing to grow up to be wives and mommies?

Just thinking out loud.

Growing up in a matriarchial family, I have the deep-seated need to protect any children (and myself) by having the ability to provide for them just as well as my husband. There are WAAAAAYYYY too many women in the world who stepped out of the "rat race" then found themselves destitute when their husband is no longer in the picture (via deaths or divorces).

My husband and I are commited to bringing up our single child, a daughter, just as equally as we would have any son. Why in the world do we say it is perfectly normal for a son to be a father and a career person? Because we imply a woman will handle the household for him! That is so frustrating! This culture can't raise our children to be equals, to have joint marriages AND households.

No wonder so many marriages fail when so much expectation is placed on one partner by our culture. We have a "breadwinner" or a "stay at home" parent, and so many struggles result from the financial needs of a family.

OH, and to laugh at myself, I do struggle with buying my daughter dolls! I worry if I'm gender-limiting her with the toy. :rotfl: I promise myself I'll also get her a chemistry set later! *eyeroll at myself* Meanwhile, my daughter is clueless to my dilemma and plays with whatever she feels like playing with. Mainly, right now, that's dirt. Lots of it. *sigh* And she hates washing her hair.

Brandie

[jodifla]

OK, I have a different question...going back to the question of women getting college degrees at a high price tag, then deciding to stay home...

I'm wondering if part of the underlying problem here is that we (I am guilty of this myself) expect our children, both girls and boys, to go to college. It has become the expectation if you want a decent paying job. Is there anyone out there who, when their little girls say "When I grow up I want to be a doctor." wouldn't jump for joy and provide great encouragement, while knowing all the while that it just "may" be true that you can't have it all? And yet how often do little girls dream and talk about getting married and having lots of kids...I know mine does anyway (she is almost 10, and has decided she will have 4 kids and has their names picked out!;) ). How many of us, when in this discussion with our girls would encourage them, "well, you know, you'll need to go to college first." I don't think it is very common anymore in our society for parents to encourage their girls to grow up and become wives and mothers and to do it proudly.

I'm not saying we shouldn't encourage our girls to aspire to all they want to do. Certainly, they will need to work at some point in their lives, and it is definately easier to get a higher paying job with a college eduction. But I wonder if we (including myself) ever really encourage our girls that it is a great thing to grow up to be wives and mommies?

Just thinking out loud.

A generation ago, this was the norm. But after woman after woman after woman got screwed over when her DH left her 10 or 20 years into the marriage, with four or five kids and no way to support them, the gender wised up and realized this truth:

YOU NEED TO HAVE A SKILL TO SUPPORT YOURSELF AND YOUR CHILDREN!

Because you never know how the future is going to play out.

[LuvsEpcot]

Uhhh... the rest of us do all that stuff AND work 37.5 hours per week.

Some people make A LOT of money. So yes, their SAHM can do it.

My wife and I are civil servants with advanced degrees. Without 2 incomes, we could not save for retirement or our kids' college education. We make enough for one vacation per year, after our savings.

However, without me doing my job, our court system could not function. And my wife teaches math in public schools. It seems like these would be important jobs that would pay better in our society. But no, we worship pop stars and greed meisters (Trump, Paris Hilton, et al.) here in the USA and reward them gratuitoulsy.

OMG...I am so with you on that one...our priorities in this country are soooo messed up!:confused:

[PatriciaH]

Why would someone who could make more than their spouse be the one to stay at home? :confused3

[mytwotinks]

I am so sorry if my post offended anyone. But I think you misunderstood. I was in no way running down SAHMs. I was saying it is harder for moms to make the decision to stay at home if they have a high paying career and/or large school loans. It is easier to make the decision if your wages are not much more than what is needed to pay for daycare. Being a mom whether a SAHM or a working mom is hard work. We all do what is best for our children. Sometimes I actually think women's lib made it harder for moms. You are supposed to get a college education and work a great job but you are also still supposed to do the home duties. If you do this, your children miss out. But if you decide to be a SAHM, you are not totally fulfilling yourself. When you do decide to go back to work, you are penalized with a lower salary. My biggest hero is my mom who stayed at home and provided a wonderful example for us.

I am sure that you are not trying to offend anyone, but you saying that I am not "totally fulfilling myself" as a stay at home mom is really just saying that what I do is not worth as much as those who work for a paycheck. Not everyone needs to be paid to be fulfilled.

[punkin]

I hear you. I have only been out of the work force for 2 years but I am having a different sort of problem. I am too expensive to hire. If they hire a new hire just out of college they earn about 1/2 of what I would.

At least this is one response I have gotten. I hope this isn't going to be a big problem!

Dawn

I don't think it will. 2 years is not a huge amount of time. You may have to take a pay-cut to get your foot in the door though.

I wouldn't mind making less money, but I refuse to work law-firm hours anymore, so I am looking for a 9-5 government job, and those are few and far between.

[punkin]

OK, I have a different question...going back to the question of women getting college degrees at a high price tag, then deciding to stay home...

I'm wondering if part of the underlying problem here is that we (I am guilty of this myself) expect our children, both girls and boys, to go to college. It has become the expectation if you want a decent paying job. Is there anyone out there who, when their little girls say "When I grow up I want to be a doctor." wouldn't jump for joy and provide great encouragement, while knowing all the while that it just "may" be true that you can't have it all? And yet how often do little girls dream and talk about getting married and having lots of kids...I know mine does anyway (she is almost 10, and has decided she will have 4 kids and has their names picked out!;) ). How many of us, when in this discussion with our girls would encourage them, "well, you know, you'll need to go to college first." I don't think it is very common anymore in our society for parents to encourage their girls to grow up and become wives and mothers and to do it proudly.

I'm not saying we shouldn't encourage our girls to aspire to all they want to do. Certainly, they will need to work at some point in their lives, and it is definately easier to get a higher paying job with a college eduction. But I wonder if we (including myself) ever really encourage our girls that it is a great thing to grow up to be wives and mommies?

Just thinking out loud.

So, what do you expect for your daughter? Maybe she can work at MCDonalds until prince charming comes on his white charger to rescue her? I made my decision to be a SAHM from a position of strength. I could get a job (of some kind) tomorrow and be able to support my children. By denying girls a chance at higher education, you are limiting their choices.

I expect my DDs to go to school and have careers (not just jobs) and I also expect thm to become mommies at some point. If they then decide to stay home that would be fine and I would not consider a penny of tuition wasted.

[MrsPete]

I don't happen to have any friends or family members who are living on food stamps in a 600 sq. ft. apt. but I have no doubt that plenty of people are in that situation. Certainly, being a one-income family might not be feasible for them.I do personally know one family who is living in a one-bedroom trailer (their one child sleeps in the walk-in closet in the parents' bedroom). The dad works part-time, and the family's on welfare. Mom's full-time occupation seems to be bad-mouthing working moms! I think the great majority of us would say that this family needs to reconsider its priorities.I happen to see a lot of people who wish they didn't have to work but have surrounded themselves with a lifestyle that is expensive to maintain. They have to keep working now whether they want to or not.I think this sums up a lot of families today. Many of them may have started their married lives with student loans, then they bought an upscale house and a couple nice cars, added some credit card debt as time went by . . . and the result is that now they really CAN'T afford to live on one income, even if they live as frugally as possible -- they're still paying for yesterday's choices.

[MrsPete]

But I wonder if we (including myself) ever really encourage our girls that it is a great thing to grow up to be wives and mommies?Speaking only for myself, I'm trying to raise my girls in such a way that when they're out on their own, they'll have CHOICES!

I want to make sure they each have a college degree in a field that'll allow them to work profitably IF that's what they choose to do. If they go to college on my dime, then marry a great guy and never work a day in their lives, I DON'T CARE A BIT! If they decide that being SAHMs for their entire lives is in their family's best interest, I'll be supportive of their plans. But I will push them to be ABLE to work if it's ever a necessity (or even just a desire).

We're already working on teaching them budgeting skills, including the need to save for retirement, kids' college, etc. By the time they reach that point, they'll know how to make these decisions, and they'll be able to choose which sacrafices they're best able to make.

[MrsPete]

So, what do you expect for your daughter? Maybe she can work at MCDonalds until prince charming comes on his white charger to rescue her? I made my decision to be a SAHM from a position of strength. I could get a job (of some kind) tomorrow and be able to support my children. By denying girls a chance at higher education, you are limiting their choices.

I expect my DDs to go to school and have careers (not just jobs) and I also expect thm to become mommies at some point. If they then decide to stay home that would be fine and I would not consider a penny of tuition wasted.My opinion exactly! I would be highly disappointed if my daughters were to end their educations with their high school graduations, marry young and have a houseful of children, never pursue any solid career skills -- or fail to keep their skills current. This is the kind of thing that puts them -- and their future children -- at great risk. Regardless of how great a man they may marry, too many things can happen, and I want to KNOW that my daughters COULD provide for their future families.

[Maybelle]

So, what do you expect for your daughter? Maybe she can work at MCDonalds until prince charming comes on his white charger to rescue her? I made my decision to be a SAHM from a position of strength. I could get a job (of some kind) tomorrow and be able to support my children. By denying girls a chance at higher education, you are limiting their choices.

I expect my DDs to go to school and have careers (not just jobs) and I also expect thm to become mommies at some point. If they then decide to stay home that would be fine and I would not consider a penny of tuition wasted.

Boy, that response was somewhat uncalled for.

Actually, I feel the same way you do, and my daughter knows that we expect her to go to college and "further herself" educationally. Thankfully, she's got the brains to do it. It is my hope and prayer that she will be able to do it through scholarships so she does not come out of the situation tens of thousands in debt and feeling like she HAS to work no matter what.

The point I was trying to make, was that many parents accentuate the scholarly and career route, and discount the fact that that might not be the choice our girls will want to make. I certainly favor having and honing a skill, but I do feel that the "job" of mothering has been greatly devalued in our society and I see nothing wrong with letting my daughter know that even if she goes to college and does nothing with a degree, choosing to be a SAHM instead, I will always support her, and that if she makes that choice that is just a valid as following through and working in a chosen field. My fear is that many parents put undue pressure on their kids to "make good use" of the college education they have, at least in part, paid for in many instances, resulting in much guilt on the child's part when they choose not to use the degree.

[roliepolieoliefan]

Someone asks why the parent who makes more money would stay home with the children??????

Because I want to. I could go get a job right now, with a huge sign on bonus and wonderful benefits , making more money than DH and only working 3 -12 hour shifts. I could not make it through the day, knowing I'm missing DS's play or DD"s 1st day of school. They grow up way too fast and though it bothers DH to miss some of the childrens things also, I would take it way worse than him. Isn't it a mommy thing? :)

Plus I would neverencourage my DD to only want to be a mom and a wife. If her DH decides to leave her in 10 years with 3 kids, how will she raise them making minimum wage. No way! I went to college with way to many woman in their 40's going back to school when their husbands left them. I swore that wouldn't be me and it certainly won't be my DD either.

[disykat]

The whole "raise" a child thing makes me mad too! Why on earth do people assume that because someone takes time off to raise their family, that they are insinuating that a working parent is not raising their family? I took time off to raise my family, but I still would have raised them whether I continued to work or not. It just worked better for us for me to be home.

I also think it's just fine to say that your dh is terrific in that he supported that choice. It would be extremely hard to want to be a SAHM with a spouse insisting you work or be a working mom with a spouse insisting you should be home.

Talk about screwing around with people's words. You can't just assume the inverse of a statement is true. It's like someone saying "I exercise to stay fit" and someone screaming "are you calling me fat?"

[mjantz]

For those who wonder if a girl who just wants to be a SAHM should go to college, I say yes!! I have a degree in Early Childhood Education w/ Teacher Certification. The ages covered by this degree vary from state to state, but mine is birth-3rd grade. I have a great background not in just how to teach, but in how children learn, how to structure an environment that is conductive to learning & effective positive & negative discipline techniques. All of these things help me not only in my job (teacher at a Mothers Day Out) but as a mom too. Now that my kids are school-age, I'm slowly making the transition from part-time employment into something more full-time with a private school. I want to be able to be home after school even when my kids are in H.S. I've had too many friends tell me how they feel they need to be home more now that their kids are older to not stick with a school system position.
AFA expenses & such, we pretty much live on DHs income. I pull in less than $10,000/year & until this past school year, less than $5,000/year. My income pays for DDs ballet, my shopping jones ($20 at Catos! WooHoo!!), and other misc. expenses that come up plus I put some in savings for the summer when I don't work. My job is such that I don't get vacation time & if I don't work, I don't get paid. We only used DHs income when we applied for our mortgage & even if I get a full-time job making $40,000/year or more, I'd only want DHs income used. Hopefully, it'd keep our payments more realistic & give us the ability to pay it off faster.

[dawnball]

And yet how often do little girls dream and talk about getting married and having lots of kids...I know mine does anyway (she is almost 10, and has decided she will have 4 kids and has their names picked out!;) ). How many of us, when in this discussion with our girls would encourage them, "well, you know, you'll need to go to college first." I don't think it is very common anymore in our society for parents to encourage their girls to grow up and become wives and mothers and to do it proudly.

Heck yes it's a great thing to grow up to be a SAHM. However, in *my* viewpoint (and this is just my opinion) - part of being a SAHM is planning for the worst possible outcomes for my family. That means it's important for me to have professional skills and keep them up to date. If DH was hit by a bus, or was stuck by a crippling disease then I need to be able to step up and provide for my family.

However, when I was in college I knew that I would want to stay home with my kids when they were born. That means that for electives I took human development classes instead of the english lit that would have been more fun. If I were doing it all over again I'd probably have taken some basic accounting classes because those come in handy as a SAHM too. Horticulture electives or some of the med-lab classes would have been useful too.

I don't know if my daughter will want to be a SAHM. Or if she'll want to have children at all. However - if she decides she does - I want her to have as many skills at her disposal as a SAHM as I can help her get. And that means a college degree both for the ability to get a job in a pinch and for the valuable knowledge you get from one.

However, unless she's planning on a lucrative career - I'm not encouraging a lot of student loans. I know too many people (married, unmarried, male, female) who have liberal arts degrees that qualify them for no particular job and 100K in student loans. That's a hard way to start your adult life.

[DawnM]

Actully, they can't pay me less.....school districts have a pay scale and you get paid whatever is on the scale. There isn't any negotiating.

I wouldn't want law firm hours either! At least with my job I have the same schedule as the kids.

Dawn

I don't think it will. 2 years is not a huge amount of time. You may have to take a pay-cut to get your foot in the door though.

I wouldn't mind making less money, but I refuse to work law-firm hours anymore, so I am looking for a 9-5 government job, and those are few and far between.

[punkin]

Actully, they can't pay me less.....school districts have a pay scale and you get paid whatever is on the scale. There isn't any negotiating.

I wouldn't want law firm hours either! At least with my job I have the same schedule as the kids.

Dawn

This is probably getting OT but I wonder why a school district wouldn't want a more experienced teacher if they can get one? Is the bottom line everything nowadays? (I am assuming you teach from your post).

[myprincessgirlisa]

Hi chicago526,

We've talked before...but I just wanted to say Hi & add to the thread(not bad)
I work fulltime & so does DH.
DHs parents, brother, wife & their baby all just moved in with us. This could be looked at as good & bad....we have a live in sitter, but we have no more privacy & we go thru food/toiletries like water....so its necessary we both work, plus my mom is getting a divorce & needs some help........so, I like working....the feeling of accomplishment, the money to do what I want with & my financial security, but thats me....i enjoy that.
As you know, Im in Hoffman & its very established....are your real estate taxes killing you???...from what I heard about the BIG BOOM out west was that youd get a huge, cheap house, but taxes were over $10k a year...mine are $3500yr..that can hurt
I agree with you that I dont know how some people do it....but they do!?!
Oh well, as long as your happy with your life...i wouldnt worry about the small stuff.....besides, some people that have it all still arent happy....so its all about YOUR happiness, weather its rich & living the high life or living the simple life & stopping to smell the roses;)

I love this area, Why does your DH dislike........it has everything......or is he like my DH & he hates the winters here???:)

[hsmamato2]

That said i admire greatly those like you who do the sahm route as a true choice and sacrifice. I struggle with those for whom it is not worth it for them to work and pay child care but then still like to carry the torch of sacrificing to be a SAHM.

again, this is where I stuggle to stay calm, MOST Moms who CHOOSE to stay home with the kids,sacrificing a 'big' career,or simply a 2nd job that can buy more 'toys'or even fancier groceries is a still a choice-:confused3
To assume that b/c a Mom might make less than her dh,and still chooses to stay home is less of a sacrifice than one who could make 6 figures tells me something....
It's NOT about the money! Staying home, along with the lifestyle that many of us live b/c of this choice is nothing to belittle either...just as the choices that go along with a 2 income family are also what works for some folks.
I'm carrying no torches- yet I get to hear about how"lucky" I happen to be,b/c we can "so easily" live on dh's income....:confused:
My point is,most of us in this society "get" to stay home b/c we're committed to the lifestyle,not b/c it's 'easier' for us than for someone else...maybe that's the "torch" you referred to?
I feel blessed to be able to have a choice,and yes, Disneysteve is right, after a certain income level,(beyond poverty for sure)it's not about how much you make,it's about how you spend it.
I'd dare say that most of us here on this board who can afford a Disney vacation even once in a while ,or internet access on our home computers,would be above poverty level,so that's probably not a valid point on these boards.

[PatriciaH]

Someone asks why the parent who makes more money would stay home with the children??????

Because I want to. I could go get a job right now, with a huge sign on bonus and wonderful benefits , making more money than DH and only working 3 -12 hour shifts. I could not make it through the day, knowing I'm missing DS's play or DD"s 1st day of school. They grow up way too fast and though it bothers DH to miss some of the childrens things also, I would take it way worse than him. Isn't it a mommy thing? :)



I guess I am not getting the isn't it a mommy thing. Is it? Why aren't more men the ones staying at home? Many of them ARE better with their kids. Many woman make more than men now. Why are they still the ones staying home?

[MrsPete]

I want to be able to be home after school even when my kids are in H.S. I've had too many friends tell me how they feel they need to be home more now that their kids are older to not stick with a school system position.That's one reason why I'm so glad I decided to go back to school for a teaching certificate -- being a teacher is a perfect "mom job". I know several women who are worried about what they'll do now that their kids are aging out of after-school care, yet they don't really want to leave them alone all afternoon yet. Teachers don't have to worry about that.

[MrsPete]

part of being a SAHM is planning for the worst possible outcomes for my family. That means it's important for me to have professional skills and keep them up to date. If DH was hit by a bus, or was stuck by a crippling disease then I need to be able to step up and provide for my family.Change one word in this sentence, and I'll agree with it: Make it part of being a MOM is planning for the worst possible outcome. Both SAHMs and working moms could suffer a crisis and might need to be prepared with a "fall-back plan". However, unless she's planning on a lucrative career - I'm not encouraging a lot of student loans. I know too many people (married, unmarried, male, female) who have liberal arts degrees that qualify them for no particular job and 100K in student loans. That's a hard way to start your adult life.I agree completely -- starting one's adult life with loans means LACK of choices (in numerous ways), and that's not something I want for my girls.

[MrsPete]

This is probably getting OT but I wonder why a school district wouldn't want a more experienced teacher if they can get one? Is the bottom line everything nowadays? (I am assuming you teach from your post).Teaching is really field unique unto itself. It's hard to compare it to other jobs.

Who'd get the job? The brand-new teacher or the experienced teacher? The reality is that the job'd go to the one who's qualified to coach cheerleading (or whatever sport the school happens to need covered), or the one who's AP-certified, or the one who ran the Speech-and-Debate club at his old school -- in short, the job'll go to the person who can teach PLUS fulfill some other need at the school. The principal makes the choice whether to hire the teacher, but since the teacher's salary comes from the state, he doesn't really care much whether he hires the new teacher or the experienced teacher. When I was hired, salary wasn't discussed; there was no need -- everyone knew the state salary scale was all that mattered. When I interviewed to change schools, again, salary wasn't discussed.

I remember sitting in a big auditorium with 200 other people -- all of us about to become student teachers -- and the speaker said something that scared me to pieces: "Your degree will never get you a teaching job. Look to the left, look to the right. Every other person in this room, your competition, also has a degree just like yours. If you want a job, you need something that'll set you apart from the crowd, something that'll make the school choose you instead of them."

Then once I was about five years into my teaching career, the long-predicted teacher shortage became a reality here, and that no longer mattered!

[DawnM]

Well, I assume they want a bit of both. Each school has a budget for teachers and counselors (I have been a counselor for the last several years but did teach before that) and it is designed to include experienced and lower paid teachers. In CA it had to account for 50% of the budget (teacher and staff salaries) so if a school has a lot of teachers at the top of the salary scale they look for "cheaper" teachers. It isn't always like this.

BTW: I do have 2 interviews lined up. One is at the school I really want to work at, so I am keeping my fingers crossed!

Dawn

This is probably getting OT but I wonder why a school district wouldn't want a more experienced teacher if they can get one? Is the bottom line everything nowadays? (I am assuming you teach from your post).

[MrsPete]

again, this is where I stuggle to stay calm, MOST Moms who CHOOSE to stay home with the kids,sacrificing a 'big' career,or simply a 2nd job that can buy more 'toys'or even fancier groceries is a still a choice-:confused3
To assume that b/c a Mom might make less than her dh,and still chooses to stay home is less of a sacrifice than one who could make 6 figures tells me something....
It's NOT about the money! Staying home, along with the lifestyle that many of us live b/c of this choice is nothing to belittle either...just as the choices that go along with a 2 income family are also what works for some folks.
I'm carrying no torches- yet I get to hear about how"lucky" I happen to be,b/c we can "so easily" live on dh's income....:confused:
My point is,most of us in this society "get" to stay home b/c we're committed to the lifestyle,not b/c it's 'easier' for us than for someone else...maybe that's the "torch" you referred to?
I feel blessed to be able to have a choice,and yes, Disneysteve is right, after a certain income level,(beyond poverty for sure)it's not about how much you make,it's about how you spend it.
I'd dare say that most of us here on this board who can afford a Disney vacation even once in a while ,or internet access on our home computers,would be above poverty level,so that's probably not a valid point on these boards.I think the other poster was saying that she admires the women who CHOOSE to stay home: the ones who could go to work and make a decent profit, yet who have made a decision that SH is best for their families. They're following their convictions, regardless of whether that matches what you and I believe to be right.

I think she's saying that she shakes her head in wonder at the women for whom working wasn't really a choice -- the ones who would've been working just to pay daycare, or who would've actually been going in the hole each month because of their work expenses -- yet who like to talk about "the sacrafice they've made for their families". If you don't have a choice, it's not a sacrafice -- it's good math skills.

As for myself, I don't know that I admire or don't admire any particular group, but I feel bad for the women who don't have the OPTION to work or not work. They're backed into a corner and must hope that everything in their lives works out well.

[punkin]

I feel bad for the women who don't have the OPTION to work or not work. They're backed into a corner and must hope that everything in their lives works out well.

CHOICE. That's what I want to give my DDs so they don't feel backed into a corner.

[Kimmumum]

A little bit of a different perspective....I worked outside of the home while my kids were little so that I could be home with them when I thought they needed me more----adolescence. This has worked out for our family. Things get tight at times but it is worth it when I know my kids are not home alone/getting in trouble with friends who know there are no parents at home.:goodvibes

[louise']

That's one reason why I'm so glad I decided to go back to school for a teaching certificate -- being a teacher is a perfect "mom job". I know several women who are worried about what they'll do now that their kids are aging out of after-school care, yet they don't really want to leave them alone all afternoon yet. Teachers don't have to worry about that.

How long did it take you to get your teacher certificate? I have been thinking about it. Thanks.

[dawnball]

Change one word in this sentence, and I'll agree with it: Make it part of being a MOM is planning for the worst possible outcome. Both SAHMs and working moms could suffer a crisis and might need to be prepared with a "fall-back plan". I agree completely -- starting one's adult life with loans means LACK of choices (in numerous ways), and that's not something I want for my girls.

Well, yes and no. I was speaking specifically to advice I would give a child who wants to grow up to be a SAHM, so I stand by my original statement as written. However, that sentence could be expanded to "part of being a parent" or "part of being an adult" or "part of being responsible" or "part of being a doctor" and still be just as true.

And I would make very similar suggestions to a child who wanted any *other* career with a high degree of risk - acting, modeling, singing, dancing, being a missionary, joining the military, etc. A degree just provides a marvelous measure of flexibility, particularly a quantitative degree.

[DawnM]

It depends. Do you already have a BA? Do you want to teach secondary or elem?

A teacher credentialling program would do better at looking at your transcripts and determining what you would still need to obtain your certification.

It is also so different depending on what state you are in.

I got my certification in CA. It took 39 semester units (after by BA) plus some additional prerequisites. If you were to go full time it could be completed in one year to 1.5 years if you meet the requirements.

Dawn

How long did it take you to get your teacher certificate? I have been thinking about it. Thanks.

[roliepolieoliefan]

I guess I am not getting the isn't it a mommy thing. Is it? Why aren't more men the ones staying at home? Many of them ARE better with their kids. Many woman make more than men now. Why are they still the ones staying home?

Not sure Patricia. I thought I'd get flack for saying its a mommy thing.

I'm not talking for all husbands but mine would rather go to work than volunteer for cafeteria duty, plan the Christmas party, make crafts at pre-school, drive to speech therapy, gymnastics classes, and dance classes all while DH works.

I've pretty much had the same routine with the kids since school started. DH will still call me and say, Where are you, or what are your plans today? , without a clue. :rolleyes1 I'm not saying all husbands are like that , but mine is so our set-up works for us.

[mytwotinks]

again, this is where I stuggle to stay calm, MOST Moms who CHOOSE to stay home with the kids,sacrificing a 'big' career,or simply a 2nd job that can buy more 'toys'or even fancier groceries is a still a choice-:confused3
To assume that b/c a Mom might make less than her dh,and still chooses to stay home is less of a sacrifice than one who could make 6 figures tells me something....
It's NOT about the money! Staying home, along with the lifestyle that many of us live b/c of this choice is nothing to belittle either...just as the choices that go along with a 2 income family are also what works for some folks.
I'm carrying no torches- yet I get to hear about how"lucky" I happen to be,b/c we can "so easily" live on dh's income....:confused:
My point is,most of us in this society "get" to stay home b/c we're committed to the lifestyle,not b/c it's 'easier' for us than for someone else...maybe that's the "torch" you referred to?
I feel blessed to be able to have a choice,and yes, Disneysteve is right, after a certain income level,(beyond poverty for sure)it's not about how much you make,it's about how you spend it.
I'd dare say that most of us here on this board who can afford a Disney vacation even once in a while ,or internet access on our home computers,would be above poverty level,so that's probably not a valid point on these boards.

Very well said!

[Genieklone]

I am just going to say this....not because I think you should do it, but just because this is what we did......

I worked in CA. We made a good income but we knew that going to one salary would never really cut it unless DH got a good raise.

SO......we MOVED! Going from LA, CA to Charlotte, NC provided us with a sizeable down payment on our house AND the opportunity for me to stay home for a while and to adopt the child we had always wanted to adopt.

So, it is an option to move to a more reasonable area.

Dawn

OP, we did the same as Dawn, from Miami,Fl to Cincy. We have a modest 3/2 in a nice area for under 100K. I can stay at home and we have money to spare. Everything is less expensive.

[mytwotinks]

Not sure Patricia. I thought I'd get flack for saying its a mommy thing.

I'm not talking for all husbands but mine would rather go to work than volunteer for cafeteria duty, plan the Christmas party, make crafts at pre-school, drive to speech therapy, gymnastics classes, and dance classes all while DH works.

I've pretty much had the same routine with the kids since school started. DH will still call me and say, Where are you, or what are your plans today? , without a clue. :rolleyes1 I'm not saying all husbands are like that , but mine is so our set-up works for us.

My husband is exactly the same! I tease him all of the time that I am going to get a job and he can deal with the play dates and story time at the library!!!! He says "no thank you!!!!!!!" He is a terrific Daddy, but the 24/7 isn't his thing and I honestly think that in most cases (there are always exceptions to every rule!) the mommies have the internal need to be with their kiddos more than the Daddies do. It is the truth for us anyway!

edited to add: I agree that the only people who should be staying home with their kids full time are the ones who truly feel a deep desire to do so. I know that even with this strong feeling, there are still days that are long and tedious and I would love to put on a nice outfit and get away for a while. It's not something a Mom can be happy doing if she doesn't almost "need" to.

I think that is where a lot of the sahm vs. wm thing comes in. Neither side truly understands how the other can be happy with their decisions because they feel so totally opposite. It's kind of like someone who wants kids not being able to understand how someone else doesn't have that desire.

Anyway............ Have a good day at work!! No matter if you leave your house to do it or not.

[LoveBWVVBR]

That's one reason why I'm so glad I decided to go back to school for a teaching certificate -- being a teacher is a perfect "mom job". I know several women who are worried about what they'll do now that their kids are aging out of after-school care, yet they don't really want to leave them alone all afternoon yet. Teachers don't have to worry about that.

I hate to burst your bubble, but unless you work at your kids' school, you DO have to worry about aftercare. My mom is a teacher, and believe me, my sister and I were left alone as "latchkey kids" far more than we should have been at far too early an age. My mom didn't work at our school, so our schedules were off by an hour. Then, sometimes she had mandatory meetings after work. It would have been better if she'd worked at our school and we'd all been on the same schedule, but even then aftercare would have helped because of the meeting days.

FWIW, I'm in the process of becoming a teacher also:banana: I won't be working at my DD's school, so DH and I will have to coordinate schedules and DD may need to go to aftercare some days of the week. It's still a good "mom job" overall, but the aftercare issues are still there even with teaching!

[NotUrsula]

DS' good friend's mother is a HS teacher. Same deal. We often trade back and forth with her on days when school is closed, because very often the grade school and the high school have different closed days, especially at Spring and Xmas breaks. Our school has aftercare, and she uses it 3 days per week, when she has after-school responsibilities.

Since both of us work, one of us always had to take a day off when school was closed; this way we get to occasionally NOT take the day off when her schedule matches up. On days when it doesn't, we'll take her boys and build up a bit of swap credit.

The downside of teaching elem and HS is that teachers usually have a harder time taking a random last-minute emergency day off than your average office professional does. Teaching is ALL about face-time. You must be in the classroom when school is in session. Even going to the bathroom needs to be timed between classes, and in a lot of places things like having a cup of coffee at your desk are against the rules. I've had twenty years of a very flexible job; I know I couldn't deal with the regimented workday in a classroom.

[NotUrsula]

About the whole "Dad wouldn't want to do the playdates and the storytimes and volunteer to plan the class Christmas party" issue. Why would he need to do those things?

As I pointed out before, when you are a SAHP you structure your own day, and those of you who do those things have chosen to do them -- no one is forcing you to it. If your DH's were SAHD's, they also would get to choose what activities they wanted to participate in, and they might choose different ones. For example, instead of storytime they might choose teaching the kids how to fish. Instead of working the class Christmas party they might volunteer to sell booth space for the school rummage sale. The parent who is doing the activity is the parent who gets to choose what to do, after all.

I'm always hearing this, how Dad wouldn't want to stay home because he wouldn't want to do X activities. That argument is specious, and exists because SAHM's who have a set idea of what being a SAHP entails tend to think that they could somehow force their spouses to adhere to their standards if the roles changed. In reality you can't expect that to be successful. When you are not there you have to back off and let the parent who is there do as he sees fit. You would hate it if your DH's tried to back-seat drive your daily routine, wouldn't you?

[DawnM]

In our district if you work IN the same district you get 60% off afterschool care. It is one of the perks of working in the same district.

I am currently hoping to work at a charter school where the kids would be in the same school and it is K-12! Keeping my fingers crossed.

I am applying for a school counseling position. I haven't worked since we left CA.

Dawn

I hate to burst your bubble, but unless you work at your kids' school, you DO have to worry about aftercare. My mom is a teacher, and believe me, my sister and I were left alone as "latchkey kids" far more than we should have been at far too early an age. My mom didn't work at our school, so our schedules were off by an hour. Then, sometimes she had mandatory meetings after work. It would have been better if she'd worked at our school and we'd all been on the same schedule, but even then aftercare would have helped because of the meeting days.

FWIW, I'm in the process of becoming a teacher also:banana: I won't be working at my DD's school, so DH and I will have to coordinate schedules and DD may need to go to aftercare some days of the week. It's still a good "mom job" overall, but the aftercare issues are still there even with teaching!

[DawnM]

Ah, why do you think I became a counselor???? At least I can now go to the bathroom after my coffee!!!! :rotfl:

Dawn

DS' good friend's mother is a HS teacher. Same deal. We often trade back and forth with her on days when school is closed, because very often the grade school and the high school have different closed days, especially at Spring and Xmas breaks. Our school has aftercare, and she uses it 3 days per week, when she has after-school responsibilities.

Since both of us work, one of us always had to take a day off when school was closed; this way we get to occasionally NOT take the day off when her schedule matches up. On days when it doesn't, we'll take her boys and build up a bit of swap credit.

The downside of teaching elem and HS is that teachers usually have a harder time taking a random last-minute emergency day off than your average office professional does. Teaching is ALL about face-time. You must be in the classroom when school is in session. Even going to the bathroom needs to be timed between classes, and in a lot of places things like having a cup of coffee at your desk are against the rules. I've had twenty years of a very flexible job; I know I couldn't deal with the regimented workday in a classroom.

[LadyShiva]

Ah, why do you think I became a counselor???? At least I can now go to the bathroom after my coffee!!!! :rotfl:

Dawn

:rotfl: :lmao: That's funny right there!

*giggle*
Brandie

[mytwotinks]

About the whole "Dad wouldn't want to do the playdates and the storytimes and volunteer to plan the class Christmas party" issue. Why would he need to do those things?

As I pointed out before, when you are a SAHP you structure your own day, and those of you who do those things have chosen to do them -- no one is forcing you to it. If your DH's were SAHD's, they also would get to choose what activities they wanted to participate in, and they might choose different ones. For example, instead of storytime they might choose teaching the kids how to fish. Instead of working the class Christmas party they might volunteer to sell booth space for the school rummage sale. The parent who is doing the activity is the parent who gets to choose what to do, after all.

I'm always hearing this, how Dad wouldn't want to stay home because he wouldn't want to do X activities. That argument is specious, and exists because SAHM's who have a set idea of what being a SAHP entails tend to think that they could somehow force their spouses to adhere to their standards if the roles changed. In reality you can't expect that to be successful. When you are not there you have to back off and let the parent who is there do as he sees fit. You would hate it if your DH's tried to back-seat drive your daily routine, wouldn't you?

I understand what you are saying, but the sahp would need to be at the activities that we as parents have decided (together) are important for our children to be a part of. For our girls that is storytime, Daisy scouts, having play dates, etc. There is a certain amount of flexibility, but for my family it is a joint decision between my dh and I what we think will benefit our dd's the most. I think fishing is great. Also think that my dh could give a lot to the activities that my girls are a part of. The honest truth is that he has a passion for what he does and I have a passion for what I do.

[jessica52877]

My husband would stay home in a heartbeat if I asked him and I decided to go to work instead. I also feel he would be a great SAHD, willing to do most of the things I do, but like another poster said, things he would like to do with our son too.

[Worfiedoodles]

I do personally know one family who is living in a one-bedroom trailer (their one child sleeps in the walk-in closet in the parents' bedroom). The dad works part-time, and the family's on welfare. Mom's full-time occupation seems to be bad-mouthing working moms! I think the great majority of us would say that this family needs to reconsider its priorities.I think this sums up a lot of families today. Many of them may have started their married lives with student loans, then they bought an upscale house and a couple nice cars, added some credit card debt as time went by . . . and the result is that now they really CAN'T afford to live on one income, even if they live as frugally as possible -- they're still paying for yesterday's choices.

I was just going to read this thread and not respond -- but I have to agree with this poster! I have a friend who is becoming less dear as I am having a hard time dealing with right now because their family of 5 cannot make it on one salary, yet she refuses to work. Her dh was fired and collected unemployment for 18 months, and neither one of them made any effort to get a job. The older daughter is 17, and she was the only one in the family with a job, and they used her part-time wages to pay bills. They get heating assistance, WIC, and federal or state aid they can find, and they think that's perfectly o.k. as long as they can maintain their lifestyle. She likes to tell me she didn't have those children for someone else to raise. Well, I resent the fact that the taxes on my salary support her SAHM lifestyle. I am paying for her to be a SAHM, and I don't think that's right. She likes to tell me that they made a decision that she would stay home, and she is unwilling to work part-time, on weekends, with a home-based business, at all.

She says that since the only jobs she could get are fast food or retail, those are beneath her. Did I mention that her two younger children are both very behind in school? They did not attend preschool, and she did not teach them anything. Her ds5 is always in the principal's office because he hits, kicks, spits on, and bites other children. Her dd7 has daily meltdowns and does not have any friends. Her home is a pigsty, and she thinks her MIL should give them money when they run out. Her widowed MIL has already given them about $20,000 in eight years of marriage, and they see nothing wrong with this. Her dh is one of five, and the other four all pay their own bills. They have also stopped lending them money, because it is never repaid.

She is in church and running things every time the doors are open, and she says that is more important. I just can't agree that not taking care of your family is o.k. if you are involved at church. I think she uses being a SAHM as an excuse not to take care of her responsibilities. Oh! And they rent from the church secretary, who cannot throw them out because she would be ostracized, so they pay the rent sporadically, when they pay it at all. These people cannot afford to live on one salary, and they cannot downsize their life any further. Being a SAHM is a selfish choice on her part, and is not benefiting her kids by most standards. Being physically present is not the same as parenting.

I am one of those selfish people who has a big mortgage, lives in an expensive city, and takes yearly vacations. My ds9 was in family day care, then preschool, and now elementary school. I don't think he could be more bonded to my husband and I, and he excels in academics. My dh and I each spent six years in college for Masters degrees, he works in government and I work for a non-profit homeless services agency. If I stayed home, we could not own our own home -- and we do not live in a mansion, or even the "hottest" neighborhood. We could not take vacations. We would have to let ds attend public school, and he would not have a college fund, not to mention retirement savings for us.

My parents lived that way, and I want no part of it. My mom was home, we never went anywhere, and I had $0 for college when it was time. I greatly resented my mother for not working like everyone else's mom. When my dad retired, they didn't have any savings.

I have made a conscious choice to provide for my family by working outside the home. I don't have any problem with someone else providing for her family by working at home -- as long as I am not footing the bill! My point, yes I do have one, is kudos to the OP for realizing it's not an option for her if it becomes a burden for society.

[robsmom]

I think the other poster was saying that she admires the women who CHOOSE to stay home: the ones who could go to work and make a decent profit, yet who have made a decision that SH is best for their families. They're following their convictions, regardless of whether that matches what you and I believe to be right.

I think she's saying that she shakes her head in wonder at the women for whom working wasn't really a choice -- the ones who would've been working just to pay daycare, or who would've actually been going in the hole each month because of their work expenses -- yet who like to talk about "the sacrafice they've made for their families". If you don't have a choice, it's not a sacrafice -- it's good math skills.

As for myself, I don't know that I admire or don't admire any particular group, but I feel bad for the women who don't have the OPTION to work or not work. They're backed into a corner and must hope that everything in their lives works out well.

This is exactly what i was trying to say!! I also agree, that ideally everyone would have a true choice. I feel bad for the woman who truly can not stay hope and wants to. I believe these cases do exisit, we have talked povery/non-poverty but there also illness, death, divorce, etc. that lead a woman to feel she must work. I also feel bad for the woman who really wants to work, and does not have that choice available to her.

[photo_chick]

Most of the SAHMs I know do so because their income potential is relatively small anyway. I don't know anyone with an advanced degree that stays at home.


You are saying you need and advanced degree to have income potential? I have several friends with masters degrees that decided to stay at home. I have an asociates and am working on m BFA, I wanted to stay at home and wait to finish me degree until my youngest starts kindergarten. I have the skills to make a decent living if I wanted to right now and we could live off of it. I know people (men and women) who have very good paying jobs that do not have a college degree. Heck, I know a few who never even graduated high school and make close to six figures.

I also know several single moms who make great lives for their kids who have not gone to college.

[MrsPete]

How long did it take you to get your teacher certificate? I have been thinking about it. Thanks.I already had two bachelors degrees, and I wanted to teach high school . . . so I only needed a couple education classes and student teaching. It took me one summer and one semester of classes, then a semester of student teaching.

If you're interested, you should contact a college in your state. Requirements vary, and I did this 15 years ago, so my advice may or may not be valid any longer.

[MrsPete]

I hate to burst your bubble, but unless you work at your kids' school, you DO have to worry about aftercare. My mom is a teacher, and believe me, my sister and I were left alone as "latchkey kids" far more than we should have been at far too early an age. My mom didn't work at our school, so our schedules were off by an hour. Then, sometimes she had mandatory meetings after work. It would have been better if she'd worked at our school and we'd all been on the same schedule, but even then aftercare would have helped because of the meeting days.

FWIW, I'm in the process of becoming a teacher also:banana: I won't be working at my DD's school, so DH and I will have to coordinate schedules and DD may need to go to aftercare some days of the week. It's still a good "mom job" overall, but the aftercare issues are still there even with teaching!Nope, my daughters are in 4th and 7th grade, and my bubble is intact. They attend a late-start elementary school, and my husband drops them off in the mornings. I'm out of school a full hour before they are, so I'm home before them. They're home before me about once every two weeks -- an acceptable amount, given their ages.

[DawnM]

Wow. I would have a hard time with that too. I think we probably all know similar people.....people who really don't want a solution to their problem, but they keep digging bigger and bigger holes and LOVE complaining about what "victims" they are!

I am SO thankful DH and I both have careers that are in demand and will be for a long time. DH is an accountant and I am a school counselor (former teacher and could go back to that if I couldn't find a counseling job.)

I have a friend right now who quit her job and now wonders how these things (a whole host of finacial problems) keep "just happening" to her!

There is just only so much we can do for these folks! Just don't live off of my tax dollars and we will be ok! (oh, man, did I say that???)

Dawn


I was just going to read this thread and not respond -- but I have to agree with this poster! I have a friend who is becoming less dear as I am having a hard time dealing with right now because their family of 5 cannot make it on one salary, yet she refuses to work. Her dh was fired and collected unemployment for 18 months, and neither one of them made any effort to get a job. The older daughter is 17, and she was the only one in the family with a job, and they used her part-time wages to pay bills. They get heating assistance, WIC, and federal or state aid they can find, and they think that's perfectly o.k. as long as they can maintain their lifestyle. She likes to tell me she didn't have those children for someone else to raise. Well, I resent the fact that the taxes on my salary support her SAHM lifestyle. I am paying for her to be a SAHM, and I don't think that's right. She likes to tell me that they made a decision that she would stay home, and she is unwilling to work part-time, on weekends, with a home-based business, at all.

She says that since the only jobs she could get are fast food or retail, those are beneath her. Did I mention that her two younger children are both very behind in school? They did not attend preschool, and she did not teach them anything. Her ds5 is always in the principal's office because he hits, kicks, spits on, and bites other children. Her dd7 has daily meltdowns and does not have any friends. Her home is a pigsty, and she thinks her MIL should give them money when they run out. Her widowed MIL has already given them about $20,000 in eight years of marriage, and they see nothing wrong with this. Her dh is one of five, and the other four all pay their own bills. They have also stopped lending them money, because it is never repaid.

She is in church and running things every time the doors are open, and she says that is more important. I just can't agree that not taking care of your family is o.k. if you are involved at church. I think she uses being a SAHM as an excuse not to take care of her responsibilities. Oh! And they rent from the church secretary, who cannot throw them out because she would be ostracized, so they pay the rent sporadically, when they pay it at all. These people cannot afford to live on one salary, and they cannot downsize their life any further. Being a SAHM is a selfish choice on her part, and is not benefiting her kids by most standards. Being physically present is not the same as parenting.

I am one of those selfish people who has a big mortgage, lives in an expensive city, and takes yearly vacations. My ds9 was in family day care, then preschool, and now elementary school. I don't think he could be more bonded to my husband and I, and he excels in academics. My dh and I each spent six years in college for Masters degrees, he works in government and I work for a non-profit homeless services agency. If I stayed home, we could not own our own home -- and we do not live in a mansion, or even the "hottest" neighborhood. We could not take vacations. We would have to let ds attend public school, and he would not have a college fund, not to mention retirement savings for us.

My parents lived that way, and I want no part of it. My mom was home, we never went anywhere, and I had $0 for college when it was time. I greatly resented my mother for not working like everyone else's mom. When my dad retired, they didn't have any savings.

I have made a conscious choice to provide for my family by working outside the home. I don't have any problem with someone else providing for her family by working at home -- as long as I am not footing the bill! My point, yes I do have one, is kudos to the OP for realizing it's not an option for her if it becomes a burden for society.

[DawnM]

You are funny! Glad you still got that bubble!

We will MAYBE have to do after school care if I work for the school district and not the private school. We will see. I would rather not.

Dawn

Nope, my daughters are in 4th and 7th grade, and my bubble is intact. They attend a late-start elementary school, and my husband drops them off in the mornings. I'm out of school a full hour before they are, so I'm home before them. They're home before me about once every two weeks -- an acceptable amount, given their ages.

[photo_chick]

I should change my statement to say MOST of the moms I know that are SAHMs do not have advanced degrees. For those that responded and said they did have one, do you still feel it was worthwhile to earn that degree?

While I have not finished mine yet, it is something I feel it is worthwhile to do. It is a personal goal for me and, well, school is fun for me. Also I could rattle off a list of people I know who do work and have a degree but work in a field completely unrelated to what their degree is in. They don't need that piece of paper to do that job. But most of them do not regret getting that degree. Sometimes it is as much about the journey as the end result.

And if ym DH wanted to stay home and have me work --even if it were for less money-- I would. I know at times he is envious of the time I have been able to spend with the kids. THat is part of the reason he is staying where he is at. He could probably find a job in his field now and make more money. However the company he is at is very casual and family friendly. Most of the higher paying jobs in his field are for companies that expect 80 hour work weeks. Something I am not prepared for him to do, and neither is he.

[Taylors6]

I've been busy the last couple days helping to create a website for our daughters fastpitch team and I jumped on here to see if there was a sticky for "forum rules" or something I could refer to to set up that option and saw this post has added like 8 pages :eek: !!

I didn't have time to read all the pages.....but I just really wanted to say that while we are all talking about what we feel is wrong or right.....

It is sooooo very right that everyone involved here on this discussion (and those who are just reading) care enough and are dialed in enough to our children, our families, and the upbringing of them to want to take our time to even discuss this!

So many people don't give a crap about what their kids are doing- who they are being watched by- who they are with, etc. that they would never see it time well spent to discuss them.

So I think we all deserve a big hug:love: since no matter what the situation- we all have our hearts in the right place when you really break it all down!

Thats all...I'm off to slaughter up another web page!:rotfl:

Missy

[spima3]

edited to add: I agree that the only people who should be staying home with their kids full time are the ones who truly feel a deep desire to do so. I know that even with this strong feeling, there are still days that are long and tedious and I would love to put on a nice outfit and get away for a while. It's not something a Mom can be happy doing if she doesn't almost "need" to.
I think that is where a lot of the sahm vs. wm thing comes in. Neither side truly understands how the other can be happy with their decisions because they feel so totally opposite. It's kind of like someone who wants kids not being able to understand how someone else doesn't have that desire.
Anyway............ Have a good day at work!! No matter if you leave your house to do it or not.

Exactly! When I read some of these posts and someone wonders "how can anyone give up $$$ to stay home?", I think, well, they want to be with their kids. Seems simple enough to me, but obviously it isn't for everyone.

I enjoy working and always thought I would work full time even after having kids. But when our oldest son died, as a baby, I realized the only time we really have is "today", so I never wanted to miss anything w/ my kids. I was there for all the firsts, all the school programs, activities, etc. Some times it's a pain, but I have never regretted it, and can't imagine living any other way. Dh and I have always lived modestly, and that enabled us to choose a lifestyle for our family that we both want, and works best for us.

I said this before and will say it again. The only people who truly annoy me are the ones who made and continue to make foolish choices with their money and then comment on how "lucky" I am to stay home w/ the kids. Quite frankly, luck had nothing to do with it.

lori

[spima3]

<snip>
There is just only so much we can do for these folks! Just don't live off of my tax dollars and we will be ok! (oh, man, did I say that???)Dawn


Well, I think we all know people living on the edge like that, but the reality is, there are many people living off our tax dollars, and they aren't just the low income/poverty.

In our area, the school district employees are paid outrageous $$, far more than I think they're worth, and we have some of the highest school/city taxes to support the salaries. On top of that, they never chose to live in the school district because the taxes are too high; the very same taxes that go to pay their salaries. It's crazy.

Then you have the credits for child care, and business expenses, and the list goes on and on. Many people benefit from others tax money.

Also, everytime I write about the high teacher salaries, someone always jokingly asks if they can move here. Dont' bother, unless you know someone with political connections, you won't get in. We often have entire families teaching: the wife, husband, children, aunts, uncles, you name it. If they have the right connections, they're all there.

lori

[LoveBWVVBR]

I should change my statement to say MOST of the moms I know that are SAHMs do not have advanced degrees. For those that responded and said they did have one, do you still feel it was worthwhile to earn that degree?

I'm a SAHM with a Master's Degree. Heck yes I think it was worthwhile to earn my degrees! I don't plan to be a SAHM forever. I had a career before, and I'll have a career again. We waited a long time to have this child, and we always agreed that one of us would be home with our child(ren). I would be appalled if my DD told me that she planned to be a SAHM and therefore she wasn't going to college to earn her degree. Not going to college is not an option in our home, just as it wasn't an option in our homes growing up. I would fully support my DD being a SAHM, but I would be appalled if she didn't at least earn an undergrad degree. Everyone needs an education to at least fall back upon IMHO.

Maybe it's just the crowd of SAHM's that you have encountered, but most of the SAHMs I know do have advanced degrees.

[DawnM]

Um, I work for the public school system and so you are saying that if my salary is what YOU personally consider too high and more than I am worth, then I should what? turn 1/2 my paycheck back to the government or I am living off the government like a welfare recipient?

I think all teachers will back me up on this one.

Dawn

Well, I think we all know people living on the edge like that, but the reality is, there are many people living off our tax dollars, and they aren't just the low income/poverty.

In our area, the school district employees are paid outrageous $$, far more than I think they're worth, and we have some of the highest school/city taxes to support the salaries. On top of that, they never chose to live in the school district because the taxes are too high; the very same taxes that go to pay their salaries. It's crazy.

Then you have the credits for child care, and business expenses, and the list goes on and on. Many people benefit from others tax money.

Also, everytime I write about the high teacher salaries, someone always jokingly asks if they can move here. Dont' bother, unless you know someone with political connections, you won't get in. We often have entire families teaching: the wife, husband, children, aunts, uncles, you name it. If they have the right connections, they're all there.

lori

[disneysteve]

I would be appalled if my DD told me that she planned to be a SAHM and therefore she wasn't going to college to earn her degree. Not going to college is not an option in our home, just as it wasn't an option in our homes growing up. I would fully support my DD being a SAHM, but I would be appalled if she didn't at least earn an undergrad degree. Everyone needs an education to at least fall back upon IMHO.

I would agree with all of this except the last sentence. It isn't that everyone needs an education "to at least fall back upon" but rather that everyone needs an education - period.

So many life lessons are learned in college. Yes, those who don't attend college do just fine in life, but those 4 years are so incredibly formative. I don't care what my DD plans to do with the rest of her life. College is mandatory, not optional.

[DawnM]

I completely agree Steve. My parents paid for my education and when I tried to pay them back they said, "You can pay us back by helping your own children through college." I plan to do just that, in as much as I can. I was an only child and I have 3 children, but we are working out a plan.

Dawn

I would agree with all of this except the last sentence. It isn't that everyone needs an education "to at least fall back upon" but rather that everyone needs an education - period.

So many life lessons are learned in college. Yes, those who don't attend college do just fine in life, but those 4 years are so incredibly formative. I don't care what my DD plans to do with the rest of her life. College is mandatory, not optional.

[2Monkeys]

Wow!

A couple of other posters have said this, and I think it bears repeating...

Each person has to do what is best for their own family and only you & your spouse can decide what that is. Just because one person would do it 'this way' doesn't mean that would work for everyone!

For the poster who asked about moving - we did exactly that with our 4 month old. We have lived in our current residence for nearly 8 years now, have lots of friends, and 'adopted' family, but it is not the same as having your real family close by. We have many friends who are able to count on siblings or parents to help with their kids, or to just have family get-togethers - our closest family is 500 miles away. Don't get me wrong, we really do love it here and it has allowed me to only work part-time instead of full-time, but there are trade-offs.

One other thing - If all of the SAHMs and working moms would support each other and the decisions that we've made, we'd all be much better off.

[louise']

I already had two bachelors degrees, and I wanted to teach high school . . . so I only needed a couple education classes and student teaching. It took me one summer and one semester of classes, then a semester of student teaching.

If you're interested, you should contact a college in your state. Requirements vary, and I did this 15 years ago, so my advice may or may not be valid any longer.

Thanks for the information. I have two bachelors degrees; however, they are in business administration and accounting. I also have a few classes towards a masters degree. I am going to check it out.