Feelings as DVC Member on DDP?

[tfc3rid]

As DVC members, we most likely visit Disney property more often that other guests...

What is your opinion on the impact of the Disney Dining Plan on WDW dining?? I'm curious because it seems to me that the variety that used to be prevalent isn't there anymore...

[monami7]

We loved the dining plan, we loved eating at other restaurants that just our favorites. I found the menus to be fine. We even had lobster at Capt. Jacks. And there is so much food!

[Sammie]

We loved the DDP. We do not see any negative affect on the offerings caused by the plan. I think items come and go and some items just happened to go at the same time DDP became popular and it got blamed. ::yes::

I also think everything that happens at Disney is put under a microscope by some and they see things there that happen elsewhere but never notice. All restaurants change their menu but you won't see pages of discussions about the fact that Chili's no longer is offering a certain item.

[Chuck S]

I personally feel the DDP has been a contributing factor, but not the only factor, to the menu changes we've seen throughout the resort since the DDP was first offered.

Restaurants do adjust menus, but it also seems strange that almost all the restaurant specific specialty items have been removed WDW-wide, and that the menus have become quite "standardized" throughout the WDW operated restaraunts. There are exceptions, of course, like the privately operated EPCOT restaurants, the signature restarants that take more credits, the specially "themed" restaurants still have some specific items...but suddenly many of the resort restaurants have added the identical "steak salad" and French Fries are pretty generic, now. It used to be that some had curly fries, and some had crinkle cut, steak fries or shoe strings. Now they are all the generic, standard, French Fry. Signature items, like sauces and dressings, have also been standardized through much of the resort.

Again, I think this is a general cost cutting trend at WDW, to which the DDP has been a contributing factor, but not the sole reason responsible.

[Viki]

I've posted this before, but a chef from Jiko confided last August, during free DDP days, that items have been removed from both Jiko and FF's menus specifically because of FREE dining.

[jodifla]

IMO, ANy reasonable person can see that the DDP is ruining the Disney dining magic.

From ending takeout to Olivia's to stripping all the interesting menu items, the DDP is a loss leader and a pyramid scheme that is dumbing down the experience.

There were dining plans before that DIDN'T have this effect, because they were priced more accurately.

The very first people to use the DDP got a good deal. It's getting less and less good because the quality of the food items is down, as well as the variety.

[BCV23]

We loved the DDP. We do not see any negative affect on the offerings caused by the plan. I think items come and go and some items just happened to go at the same time DDP became popular and it got blamed. ::yes::

I also think everything that happens at Disney is put under a microscope by some and they see things there that happen elsewhere but never notice. All restaurants change their menu but you won't see pages of discussions about the fact that Chili's no longer is offering a certain item.

I completely agree, Sammie.

There is the same wide variety that there always has been IMO. Every trip we've taken since this debate has started, I keep wondering where people are eating to think everything is the same everywhere.:confused3

I do agree with Chuck about some menu items becoming more standarized but only to an extent. Buying all the same condiments probably does save WDW bucks.

But to blame that on the DDP is overly simplistic in my mind.

As to the fries being the same, penne pasta offered at most of the mid range resort restaurants (albeit with different sauces and meats), I have a different theory. Besides saving some money for WDW by buying in mega bulk, it makes it easier for all the diabetics out there to count the carbs. That is one complaint I've seen about WDW dining. Chefs go above and beyond to help those with food allergies or to provide sugar free desserts, etc.. but are unable to give a carb count. By standardizing some of the carbs, I'm hoping that one day we will be able to get that info.

Obviosly some OKW guests dislike the changes at Olivia's. But to blame the DDP seems to ignore the fact that there was resportedly a new manager who instituted the changes. And perhaps the changes in carryout for Olivia's had more to do with this than the DDP.

[Sammie]

IMO, ANy reasonable person can see that the DDP is ruining the Disney dining magic.

I guess that makes me unreasonable then. :rotfl: I will admit that the DDP has caused changes but any reasonable person can see that the changes as to whether they have ruined anything is subjective and strickly one's opinion.

We just got finished with the SSR bashing, can we please not start a DDP bashing thread. :thumbsup2 There are enough of those on the Dining forums to make one's head spin.

Jodi, what items have been removed since the DDP?

[BCV23]

Yikes, I forgot to respond to the original question. We do like the plan and are grateful it is offered to DVCers. It is convenient, fun and offers good value.

However, we prefer table service meals so have a tough time using the CS. We've ended up using all our QS credits but not without some discussions.:rotfl: If there were ever to be a 2 TS option, we'd be all over it!

[jodifla]

I completely agree, Sammie.

There is the same wide variety that there always has been IMO. Every trip we've taken since this debate has started, I keep wondering where people are eating to think everything is the same everywhere.:confused3

I do agree with Chuck about some menu items becoming more standarized but only to an extent. Buying all the same condiments probably does save WDW bucks.

But to blame that on the DDP is overly simplistic in my mind.

As to the fries being the same, penne pasta offered at most of the mid range resort restaurants (albeit with different sauces and meats), I have a different theory. Besides saving some money for WDW by buying in mega bulk, it makes it easier for all the diabetics out there to count the carbs. That is one complaint I've seen about WDW dining. Chefs go above and beyond to help those with food allergies or to provide sugar free desserts, etc.. but are unable to give a carb count. By standardizing some of the carbs, I'm hoping that one day we will be able to get that info.

Obviosly some OKW guests dislike the changes at Olivia's. But to blame the DDP seems to ignore the fact that there was resportedly a new manager who instituted the changes. And perhaps the changes in carryout for Olivia's had more to do with this than the DDP.



WHAT?????????????????????????????

Conch fritters. GONE. Key lime pies. GONE! Wild game at Yachtsman Steakhouse. GONE!

and on and on.

ANd there are plenty of reports that the DDP was the direct cause of them killing takeout at Olivia's.

[jodifla]

I guess that makes me unreasonable then. :rotfl: I will admit that the DDP has caused changes but any reasonable person can see that the changes as to whether they have ruined anything is subjective and strickly one's opinion.

We just got finished with the SSR bashing, can we please not start a DDP bashing thread. :thumbsup2 There are enough of those on the Dining forums to make one's head spin.

Jodi, what items have been removed since the DDP?

DDP needs to be bashed and bashed and bashed until it's gone, and quality and variety return to Disney dining.

I just wrote a 2-page letter to Food and Beverage detailing my complaints, and I'm rallying folks on the Dining reviews board to do the same.

[BCV23]

WHAT?????????????????????????????

Conch fritters. GONE. Key lime pies. GONE! Wild game at Yachtsman Steakhouse. GONE!

and on and on.

ANd there are plenty of reports that the DDP was the direct cause of them killing takeout at Olivia's.

I know the menu at Olivia's changed. As Sammie said, menus do change. And as I said, a new manager reportedly iniated the menu changes at Olivia's. Why would the DDP have anything to do with Conch Fritters or Key Lime Pie? There are many far more exotic menu items at WDW still offered on menus...just not some of the old time favorites on Olivia's menu.:confused3

As to wild game, I thought that had been off the menu for several years at YSH and AP. The DDP is only 2 years old. I don't know but have wondered if it has to do with safety. I remember reading an article a few years ago about a disease found in wild game. It sounded similiar to Mad Cow disease. At any rate, when I read it I decided that I would be skipping any wild game in the future.

As for carryout at Olivia's, again that is one restaurant. Apparently one that is very dear to your heart but there are what....100 or so TS restaurants at WDW. And who knows what the story is at Olivia's. Perhaps the purpose was to encourage more diners to eat in the restaurant, DDP or not. When people do carryout from a TS restaurant, staff loses tips and the restaurant loses sales on alcohol, etc..

[Slakk]

We used DDP in January and had planned to in June until I realized I was literally forcing myself to eat at places...

We will use DDE card instead and also eat off site a bit. much easier on me.

[chainkid]

I guess I'm another unreasonable person who doesn't want to lose the DDp. I think it will be a big savings for my family and we eat at alot of 2 TS meals where the quality has not gone done at all. Counter service meals have all been so so at best but we eat them whether we are on DDp or not because of the convenience. There are plenty of other places to eat in the World if you want to avoid those places that take the plan. Try Shula's, Blue Zoo,
Fulton's, Palio to name a few that are excellent and not on the plan.

[JimMIA]

I think there are really two questions here --

ONE, have the Disney restaraunts changed (standardized) their menus and is DDP responsible for that? (tricky two part question...stay with me here);

and TWO, whatever you think about that -- and in answer to OP's legitimate question (which was not an invitation to hijack their thread, BTW) -- do you like DDP or not?

My answers are:
1. Yes, no, and go start your own thread to discuss the menus. Not that there aren't legitimate issues...but that's not what OP asked.
2. Yes...I like it and I'm glad we enjoy it as one benefit of DVC membership.

[Sammie]

WHAT?????????????????????????????

Conch fritters. GONE. Key lime pies. GONE! Wild game at Yachtsman Steakhouse. GONE!

and on and on.

ANd there are plenty of reports that the DDP was the direct cause of them killing takeout at Olivia's.


Are you just referring to these things being gone from Olivia's because we had Key Lime Pie many times at various places. As to the wild game, gone from Yachtsman, did not even know it was on the menu, so guess I would not miss that. What did the serve?

I am sorry but 3 items gone from hundreds across the entire property would not be enough to warrant any concern by me.

As to Olivia's, as was reported there is a new manager there, so there is no way to know for sure if it was DDP or manager's choice. Since they other TS restaurants did not do carry out, it was possibly just a policy change.

Good luck with your campaign, not sure it will make a difference, as the DDP is very popular with many and I for one will vote for it to stay. :thumbsup2

[jemiaule]

The only negative I believe I have noticed is it is harder to get reservations since DDP started. Prior to that it seemed, to me, I could easily get my dining reservations (exception being Cindies) in a 1 month window, sometimes less. Now it seems needs to make sure to book as early as possible to get the places and times desired...and sometimes even that can be a crapshoot.

[starbox]

1. I do agree that menus have changed, but I am not sure that I think DDP is the main contributing factor. As a person that has eaten at WDW since the 1970's, the menus have always changed. There was not the DDP to blame when they got rid of Mickey Butter, but I am sure it would get blamed now! Desserts and options I loved have disappeared from menus with and without the dining plan.

I think that one thing that has happened at the same time as the DDP is the increased awareness of food safety and nutrition information. Disney has been open about their attempts to ban trans fat and make their dining healthier. Also, several recent outbreaks of food-borne illness have confirmed that it is risky to prepare certain items on a large scale (such as food items, like traditional Key Lime Pie and many sauces, that require uncooked eggs).

The only restaurant I think really went down the drain is CRT - and I have a feeling that was just Disney's decision to milk their cash cow for every drop of profit more than it was a DDP issue (since the DDP now takes 2 CS credits for a very sub-standard meal - they are making gobs of profit even from plan holders)

2. When we were paying for 2 adults and 2 children on the plan, I loved :love: it. When we were paying for 3 adults (one of whom was 10) and we had the flexability to share some of his food, I still loved:love: it.

Now that Disney is saying no sharing of adult entrees among adults on the plan, I just like it. I think it's a weird place to be with the DDP the way it is set up, because a 10 year old is ready for an adult entree, but not necessarily ready for an adult 3-course meal. My gut-level feeling is that the DDP is actually going to cost more than just eating on our own with DDE would, but I don't think it's a very significant difference so it's likely we'll keep using the DDP just for the convenience of it.

[La2kw]

IMO, ANy reasonable person can see that the DDP is ruining the Disney dining magic.

From ending takeout to Olivia's to stripping all the interesting menu items, the DDP is a loss leader and a pyramid scheme that is dumbing down the experience.

There were dining plans before that DIDN'T have this effect, because they were priced more accurately.

The very first people to use the DDP got a good deal. It's getting less and less good because the quality of the food items is down, as well as the variety.

Well said! :thumbsup2

[Chuck S]

This thread's original topic is how the DDP may impact DVCers and DVC resorts. Since it has evolved (and I agree it is a fine line) to a more general discussion of DDP, it is no longer appropriate for the DVC boards and I am moving it to the DDP sub-board of the Disney Restaurants board.

[Simba's Mom]

I love the DDP and haven't seen any negative effects from it. I'll admit that when they had free dining last September, it seemed that the resturaunts were booked pretty far ahead. Lots of resturaunts I've been to on the DDP were ones I hadn't frequented before, so I don't know about things being taken off the menu (except that they used to have swordfish at Coral Reef and now they don't, but I have no idea if that's because of the DDP). However, I think that lots of peoples' reactions have to do with how it's used. The first time I used it, I made sure I "maximized" the plan-I ate all my sit-down meals at dinner time, ordered more expensive items, and ate as much as possible. Although I saved so much ($200 for roughly $400 worth of food), I really wasn't thrilled. The second time, I just went back to my pre-DDP ways-ate when I wanted (which often meant my big meal at lunch), where I wanted, and just ordered whatever I wanted, whether it was the cheapest or most expensive item. Although I didn't save as much, I did save and I loved the DDP-the freedom to order whatever I wanted on the menu, regardless of price (I tend to be someone who'd say "Well I'd kind of rather have -, but -is cheaper so that's what I'll order"). I LOVE the DDP, and hope it stays around for a long time. I really haven't noticed any negative menu changes.

[patsal]

We love the DDP with 2 kids both considered adults I would not be able to feed my family of four for under $160 per day if I were eating within the parks and planning on not wasting time going back to the villa. Even with DDE I would spend more $$ between the breakeven point--You don't save anything until you spend $300 and then it is only 20% which is what I tip anyway plus I would not save on most CS (only AK at a park) and when I'm at OKW I'm not exactly running to the AS resorts to use their food court. I love the flexibility--where I want when I want and with DVC and DDP I get a lot of flexibility. I can have fast food at whatever park I'm at and everyone in my party can have whatever they want. I dont' need to have $$ in my pocket to pay for snacks anymore and the kids get to try more than they could have in the past--I only sprang for snacks 2x per week on vacation when I had to pay OOP for them. No more letting the kids order what they want and cutting corners on my wants to keep within budget. Honestly, one character meal at dinner would nearly be $144 for the four of us after tax and tip. Honestly the $160 is a bargain fi you eat the way the plan is set up, which we do.
Many of the issues that are being blamed on the DDP may not really be the fault of the DDP so much as the trends that we are now seeing. All dining establishments are being requested to make "healthier menus" most especially fast food and children's meals. Many are moving away from trans fats as the "banning" becomes more prevalent. Perhaps wild game isn't a big seller--I know AP removed most of it before the DDP. Why purchase and prepare something that appeals to very few, not good for profits. ADR's are needed much the same way they were in the mid 80's to early 90's since the crowds are much larger than they were post 9/11. With seasonal promo's to keep the parks and resorts as full as possible throughout the year the lack of "slow times" brings the lack of walk in to a restaurant whenever you'd like. Sure when people purchase the DDP they are encouraged to make ADR's but if they were not there would be more disappointed people to have to deal with, so by telling people to make them WDW can't be blamed for the "no one told me I should do that". BTW I dont' see how the DDP can be considered a pyramid scheme, a loss leader for those that do not use all they are entitiled to, but not a pyramid scheme.

[TDC Nala]

It's nice to have. I have used it. But it IS one of the several variables affecting the quality and variety of the restaurant fare offered.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.


DDP needs to be bashed and bashed and bashed until it's gone, and quality and variety return to Disney dining.


Kind of hate to say it but that isn't going to happen. WDW likes full restaurants, full resorts and full parks.

[scootert]

While we are DVC members, we only go to WDW every other year and since we don't buy annual passes, we have not been able to buy/use the Disney Dining Experience card. We are looking forward to having the DDP for our trip this year. As I've looked at the menus for different restaurants there are some changes, but our home town restaurants change their menus from time to time. Change happens.

[n2mm]

Another unreasonable person here! We love the DDP and are thrilled that DVC owners have the perk of adding it to our reservations without all of the restrictions that package holders have. We go to WDW 4-5 trips a year and have used the DDP every trip since it's been available to us. We have also stayed at the resorts and booked a package in 2005 and 2006 to take advantage of the free DDP. We are also AP holders and have a DDE card. We love the DDP. We find it a wonderful value and find the only effect it has had is the limited availability of getting into the best restraurants on short notice. We have been to WDW for more than 60 trips and have found the menus change constantly. We have found the serving sizes have continued to shrink (which is really a good thing). We have seen these things at all restraurants whether we are at home in the Wash. DC area or in WDW. Things change all of the time, and don't think you can ever blame one particular thing that contributed to ther overall reason. While we have many favorite places to eat in WDW, there are places that we USE to love that have changed and we moved away from them, and there are places we ate at in the past that we swore never again (Coral Reef and 9 dragons) which have become new favorites. Menus change and chefs change and find these things contribute to the good and bad of some of the places we eat at, use to eat at, or might eat at in the future.

[jodifla]

Another unreasonable person here! We love the DDP and are thrilled that DVC owners have the perk of adding it to our reservations without all of the restrictions that package holders have. We go to WDW 4-5 trips a year and have used the DDP every trip since it's been available to us. We have also stayed at the resorts and booked a package in 2005 and 2006 to take advantage of the free DDP. We are also AP holders and have a DDE card. We love the DDP. We find it a wonderful value and find the only effect it has had is the limited availability of getting into the best restraurants on short notice. We have been to WDW for more than 60 trips and have found the menus change constantly. We have found the serving sizes have continued to shrink (which is really a good thing). We have seen these things at all restraurants whether we are at home in the Wash. DC area or in WDW. Things change all of the time, and don't think you can ever blame one particular thing that contributed to ther overall reason. While we have many favorite places to eat in WDW, there are places that we USE to love that have changed and we moved away from them, and there are places we ate at in the past that we swore never again (Coral Reef and 9 dragons) which have become new favorites. Menus change and chefs change and find these things contribute to the good and bad of some of the places we eat at, use to eat at, or might eat at in the future.

I've been going to WDW since it opened, and the food was pretty abysmal. It got GREAT in the early 90s.

So sad that so many people like mediocrity, if they can fool themselves into thinking they are saving money.

[jodifla]

It's nice to have. I have used it. But it IS one of the several variables affecting the quality and variety of the restaurant fare offered.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.



Kind of hate to say it but that isn't going to happen. WDW likes full restaurants, full resorts and full parks.

I think eventually the DDP will implode. They are going to keep jacking the rates up and up and up, and the quality down and down and down, until even the most deluded DDP folks will decide it's no longer worth it for them.

[BCV23]

I think eventually the DDP will implode. They are going to keep jacking the rates up and up and up, and the quality down and down and down, until even the most deluded DDP folks will decide it's no longer worth it for them.

The rate has gone up by a dollar in two years I think....not too bad.:rotfl2:

It is too bad that some who don't like the DDP feel it necessary to insult those who either like it or appreciate its availability for DVCers with the use of words like deluded, enjoy mediocrity, etc..

I agree with almost everyone else. Menus change. We don't have as many long trips as n2mm but having been enjoying TS restaurants at WDW since 1980. I notice healthier food and portions but the same wide variety and quality that have been there for many years now.

Interesting about key lime pie using raw eggs, starbox. That alone explains the change. And perhaps not many people actually ordered conch fritters.:confused3

So does anyone wish that the more inclusive meal plans were also offered to DVCers?

[Sammie]

So sad that so many people like mediocrity, if they can fool themselves into thinking they are saving money.

I guess one man's treasures is another's junk. :thumbsup2

We did not save a huge amount of money on the plan as we did a Signature meal and a buffet. But even if we broke even, we like the DDP and could care less about the minor changes to the menu.

We too have been going to WDW for over 30 years and as BCV23 said, things come and things go on all menus even before the current DDP.

We like the convenience and there are plenty of offerings that we like to be very happy with the current situation.

Key Lime is still offered at Olivia's and many other locations property wide, so I truly do not understand the complaint about lack of Key Lime desserts.

[jodifla]

I guess one man's treasures is another's junk. :thumbsup2

We did not save a huge amount of money on the plan as we did a Signature meal and a buffet. But even if we broke even, we like the DDP and could care less about the minor changes to the menu.

We too have been going to WDW for over 30 years and as BCV23 said, things come and things go on all menus even before the current DDP.

We like the convenience and there are plenty of offerings that we like to be very happy with the current situation.

Key Lime is still offered at Olivia's and many other locations property wide, so I truly do not understand the complaint about lack of Key Lime desserts.


It's a prefab Key Lime tart, not a true Key Lime pie!

[jodifla]

The rate has gone up by a dollar in two years I think....not too bad.:rotfl2:

It is too bad that some who don't like the DDP feel it necessary to insult those who either like it or appreciate its availability for DVCers with the use of words like deluded, enjoy mediocrity, etc..

I agree with almost everyone else. Menus change. We don't have as many long trips as n2mm but having been enjoying TS restaurants at WDW since 1980. I notice healthier food and portions but the same wide variety and quality that have been there for many years now.

Interesting about key lime pie using raw eggs, starbox. That alone explains the change. And perhaps not many people actually ordered conch fritters.:confused3

So does anyone wish that the more inclusive meal plans were also offered to DVCers?

Key lime pies with raw eggs are cooked...just like cakes. So no, that doesn't explain the change.

And if folks could have the DDP and it NOT ravage the menu quality and pack the restaurants, then that would be cool. But it's harming MY experience, and that's why I hate it.

And if you have a kitchen, why spend all that money on a dining plan?

[scootert]

Key lime pies with raw eggs are cooked...just like cakes. So no, that doesn't explain the change.

And if folks could have the DDP and it NOT ravage the menu quality and pack the restaurants, then that would be cool. But it's harming MY experience, and that's why I hate it.

And if you have a kitchen, why spend all that money on a dining plan?

Speaking for myself ... it's a vacation. I like to eat out and not spend my time cooking while I'm on vacation. To each his own.

[BCV23]

Key lime pies with raw eggs are cooked...just like cakes. So no, that doesn't explain the change.

And if folks could have the DDP and it NOT ravage the menu quality and pack the restaurants, then that would be cool. But it's harming MY experience, and that's why I hate it.

And if you have a kitchen, why spend all that money on a dining plan?

In your view it is harming your experience. Most of us disagree with you. You still have not given us other examples beyond Olivia's.

Other than an occasional batch of scrambled eggs, I never cook at DVC. Far too many good restaurants with a wide variety of food and great service to enjoy at WDW. The table service restaurants are one of the reason we enjoy WDW so much. As to saving money, we spend more money on Disney dining when we are not on the DDP.;)

I still contend it is OK to dislike a plan without denigrating those who do. It is like saying one doesn't care for Tonga Toast or Conch fritters because they are deepfat fried and not healthy....or saying anyone who orders those items has no taste at all.

[Nancyg56]

DDP needs to be bashed and bashed and bashed until it's gone, and quality and variety return to Disney dining.

I just wrote a 2-page letter to Food and Beverage detailing my complaints, and I'm rallying folks on the Dining reviews board to do the same.

Why are you so sure that the items that you want will be returned if the DDP was gone? There are many reasons that restaurants streamline menus or remove items. While you may enjoy certain items and are willing to pay for them, there may not be enough people who will, and rather than stock a kitchen only to find that expensive items sit, the choice may be to removes slow moving items.

I was fortunate enough to be a part of a trip to the CIA with the CT chef's association, and was treated to a lecture with those chefs. One of the points that the chef was making was that while it is nice to be able to include specialty items it may not be cost effective for a restaurant to do so. In order to generate a profit it is important to move all of the items offered on a menu. It it doesn't sell it won't stay.


I am not saying that the DDP does not contribute to changes that you see, but I am not as sure as some that it is the major factor.

[jodifla]

In your view it is harming your experience. Most of us disagree with you. You still have not given us other examples beyond Olivia's.

Other than an occasional batch of scrambled eggs, I never cook at DVC. Far too many good restaurants with a wide variety of food and great service to enjoy at WDW. The table service restaurants are one of the reason we enjoy WDW so much. As to saving money, we spend more money on Disney dining when we are not on the DDP.;)

I still contend it is OK to dislike a plan without denigrating those who do. It is like saying one doesn't care for Tonga Toast or Conch fritters because they are deepfat fried and not healthy....or saying anyone who orders those items has no taste at all.

I've given plenty of examples beyond Olivia's. There's the Yachtsman, which has been completely decimated by the dumb, horrible DDP -- just see my review and the many many people who agree with me over on the dining review board. There wasn't one person who actually enjoyed their meal at the Yachtsman, and it decline EXACTLY when the DDP came on board.

There's Jiko, which is missing it's best appetizer because it's too expensive with the DDP. There's lobster, which has been stripped off almost every menu.....you HONESTLY want to tell me that's not because of the DDP?

I had to order two appetizers at Citrico's, because honestly the entree menu was SO LIMITED I didn't find anything intersting to eat on it. There WAS NOTHING ON THE YACHSTMAN MENU worth returning for...and we've been fans of it since it opened..

[patsal]

And if you have a kitchen, why spend all that money on a dining plan?

Because I'm on vacation
Because I vacation when everyone else does (school breaks) and I am not going to lose time in the parks to go back to the room to cook a meal.
By the same token of thinking, because I have a kitchen at home I'd have no plans to ever dine out.
BTW not all recipes for Key Lime Pie are cooked the eggs are tempered, but not at a high enough temp to kill off the bacteria, and not all key lime pies are baked.

[DaisyD]

I guess that makes me unreasonable then. :rotfl: I will admit that the DDP has caused changes but any reasonable person can see that the changes as to whether they have ruined anything is subjective and strickly one's opinion.

We just got finished with the SSR bashing, can we please not start a DDP bashing thread. :thumbsup2 There are enough of those on the Dining forums to make one's head spin.

Jodi, what items have been removed since the DDP?

The Dad's Smores at 50s Prime Time. Removed specifically because of the DDP. It was originally a dessert for 2 and apparantly too many DPers were each getting their own and wasting it. So they halved the thing and charge the same price. The folks at Kona's don't care for the DDP either. I know a couple of servers there and they despise the DDP. I won't tell you what they call folks on that plan. The childrens menus are bad. The regular menus have all been dumbed down because of the DDP. Wonder why all the better cuts of meat are gone along with all the lobster? DDP.

[jodifla]

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1343228&highlight=menu+changes+DDP

this thread details the decline of the FF.

There's another, multi-page thread I'm looking for that lists item after item they discontinued after the DDP.

[jodifla]

The Dad's Smores at 50s Prime Time. Removed specifically because of the DDP. It was originally a dessert for 2 and apparantly too many DPers were each getting their own and wasting it. So they halved the thing and charge the same price. The folks at Kona's don't care for the DDP either. I know a couple of servers there and they despise the DDP. I won't tell you what they call folks on that plan. The childrens menus are bad. The regular menus have all been dumbed down because of the DDP. Wonder why all the better cuts of meat are gone along with all the lobster? DDP.

Oh, yeah, the Ohana's menu was really changed too. Took away the expensive shrimp....gee, wonder why?

[BCV23]

I've given plenty of examples beyond Olivia's. There's the Yachtsman, which has been completely decimated by the dumb, horrible DDP -- just see my review and the many many people who agree with me over on the dining review board. There wasn't one person who actually enjoyed their meal at the Yachtsman, and it decline EXACTLY when the DDP came on board.

There's Jiko, which is missing it's best appetizer because it's too expensive with the DDP. There's lobster, which has been stripped off almost every menu.....you HONESTLY want to tell me that's not because of the DDP?

I had to order two appetizers at Citrico's, because honestly the entree menu was SO LIMITED I didn't find anything intersting to eat on it. There WAS NOTHING ON THE YACHSTMAN MENU worth returning for...and we've been fans of it since it opened..


We used to be big fans of YSH but that was years ago. We ate there every trip for a number of years after it opened as I recall even though we rarely stayed in that area back then. For many years now, we have found it to be inconsistent. This change was many years before DDP. It is usually good and occasionally great but not what it was years ago. DDP has nothing to do with it.

Best appetizer at Jiko is of course completely subjective. But since folk who use the DDP there are using two credits to do so, I doubt the DDP had anything to do with the loss of your personal favorite whatever that might have been. Changes may have occured in Aug/Sept due to free DDP but that was what...a month and a half. Don't go during that time. I know I plan to avoid it.

I don't know how long you've been dining at Citricos but it has always had a very limited menu IMO. We are a family of six and often have had the problem of not finding things for everyone on that menu. But again, that was true long before the DDP.

[BCV23]

The Dad's Smores at 50s Prime Time. Removed specifically because of the DDP. It was originally a dessert for 2 and apparantly too many DPers were each getting their own and wasting it. So they halved the thing and charge the same price. The folks at Kona's don't care for the DDP either. I know a couple of servers there and they despise the DDP. I won't tell you what they call folks on that plan. The childrens menus are bad. The regular menus have all been dumbed down because of the DDP. Wonder why all the better cuts of meat are gone along with all the lobster? DDP.

Specifically because of the DDP according to whom? CMs who are servers probably don't get to make much input on menu changes nor necessarily have any actual knowlerdge of why things change.

And why would DDPers be anymore to "waste" a smore than anyone else? Perhaps it was changed because it was too large of a portion to begin with and WDW is obviously encouraging healthier choices. Or maybe folks who weren't on the DDP were splitting the dessert among more than two thus cutting into revenue? Other restaurants insist rightly that those on the DDP share items intended and priced for two. There is no reason why Primetime couldn't as well. Actually, I would guess they did.

[honeymo78]

BCV - pretty much everything you have said could have been written by me. We've been on disney's version of the plat or premium plan for the past 15 years and only recently have started using ddp for shorter trips. I know that throughout the 90's and early 2000 lobster was hit or miss, depending on restaurant or season. As for YSH, a trip in the early 00's found a significant change in the cuts of meat on the menu - well before DDP - however we still find something to our liking on the menu. Yes most restaurants have a similar menu if you mean there is a beef dish, pork dish, chicken dish and fish dish. I don't know what my family would do if this wasn't the case - we'd never eat together lol. Perhaps our tastes aren't as gourmand as others but we do enjoy a fine meal and honestly haven't been disappointed since the introduction of the DDP. Our "favorite" items are still around, and we have discovered new favorites in recent years as well.

We still aren't DVC owners yet. The only thing holding us back is no premium or platinum plan availabilty for owners. Hopefully the addition of DDP for DVC is a step in that direction. I'll just keep my fingers crossed.

[TDC Nala]

Oh, yeah, the Ohana's menu was really changed too. Took away the expensive shrimp....gee, wonder why?

I don't buy this one. You still get shrimp, they're just not grilled. Or are they a different type of shrimp? they tasted good, anyway.

Don't like the sausage they replaced it with on the skewers but I just don't eat it and ask for more shrimp.

[MAGICFOR2]

We have DDP ressies strictly for convenience and advance budgeting. My DH and I used some vouchers for meals that we bought for our 2004 vacation. It was so nice to be able to eat wherever we wanted without worrying about our budget. We realized that our previous vacation habits included trying to find a way to eat according to price, rather than what we really wanted, or taking time away from the parks to find a cheaper place to eat. This added stress to our vacation which we are hoping to avoid. While I don't expect everything to be perfect, I am looking forward to the choices we have without worrying about our budget. I don't think with our eating habits that it is a great bargain - we are not big eaters, but we look forward to relaxing about our meals and knowing we will have a variety of experiences. If we find out that we hate it, we won't do it the next time :thumbsup2

[BCV23]

BCV - pretty much everything you have said could have been written by me. We've been on disney's version of the plat or premium plan for the past 15 years and only recently have started using ddp for shorter trips. I know that throughout the 90's and early 2000 lobster was hit or miss, depending on restaurant or season. As for YSH, a trip in the early 00's found a significant change in the cuts of meat on the menu - well before DDP - however we still find something to our liking on the menu. Yes most restaurants have a similar menu if you mean there is a beef dish, pork dish, chicken dish and fish dish. I don't know what my family would do if this wasn't the case - we'd never eat together lol. Perhaps our tastes aren't as gourmand as others but we do enjoy a fine meal and honestly haven't been disappointed since the introduction of the DDP. Our "favorite" items are still around, and we have discovered new favorites in recent years as well.

We still aren't DVC owners yet. The only thing holding us back is no premium or platinum plan availabilty for owners. Hopefully the addition of DDP for DVC is a step in that direction. I'll just keep my fingers crossed.


That's funny. We first did the "Plan and the plane" as my oldest dubbed it in 1983. In that day it was the Gold Key and the name changed but the plan was great. We never did do the Platinum though. But we did the plan for years.

Do you remember when you could order lobster at lunch at Narcoossee's? And yes, lobster has been much rare on the menus for years now.

Although the premium dining plan was not a major factor in why it took us so long to join, we sure did think we would miss the premium plan. But the wonderful DVC units more than make up for it and with DDE and APs (and twice the DDP with DE), we really do the same things we always did....well maybe take out boats less frequently.;)

[patsal]

Oh, yeah, the Ohana's menu was really changed too. Took away the expensive shrimp....gee, wonder why?

By my standards the missing shrimp from 'Ohana was far from "expensive shrimp" it was replaced with shrimp and sausage by a new chef, Citrico's and many other signature menus have always been rather limited as well.


of servers there and they despise the DDP. I won't tell you what they call folks on that plan. The childrens menus are bad

I think the children's menu's are bad some places becuse of experimenting with what healty things they can offer kids without it going into the trash.

I'm not sure why servers would despise the plan, the tip is guaranteed and for many, more than would have been left. If people come in with an entitlement attitude, I doubt the DDP has anything to do with that just the people's personalities--they'd be jerks on or off the plan.

[DaisyD]

Specifically because of the DDP according to whom? CMs who are servers probably don't get to make much input on menu changes nor necessarily have any actual knowlerdge of why things change.

And why would DDPers be anymore to "waste" a smore than anyone else? Perhaps it was changed because it was too large of a portion to begin with and WDW is obviously encouraging healthier choices. Or maybe folks who weren't on the DDP were splitting the dessert among more than two thus cutting into revenue? Other restaurants insist rightly that those on the DDP share items intended and priced for two. There is no reason why Primetime couldn't as well. Actually, I would guess they did.

The manager at 50s Prime Time told me it had been cut because of the DDP. It seems that instead of just getting what they could actually eat they would all each order the biggest thing they could get. So it was cut in half and now has no appeal to the DDP. Actually it isn't the manager of 50s isn't the first manager I've spoke with at WDW that thought the DDP was a bad idea.

[DaisyD]

I don't buy this one. You still get shrimp, they're just not grilled. Or are they a different type of shrimp? they tasted good, anyway.

Don't like the sausage they replaced it with on the skewers but I just don't eat it and ask for more shrimp.

The shrimp are half the size they used to be.

[BCV23]

The manager at 50s Prime Time told me it had been cut because of the DDP. It seems that instead of just getting what they could actually eat they would all each order the biggest thing they could get. So it was cut in half and now has no appeal to the DDP. Actually it isn't the manager of 50s isn't the first manager I've spoke with at WDW that thought the DDP was a bad idea.

I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense. Could a manager have been trying to placate you? Why would anyone order the biggest thing they could get instead of what appealed to them. And the same with any other manager you spoke to....could you have been complaining and they just said something to appear to agree with you. The DDP appears to be a great success which would make most managers happy I would think.

[Luv2Roam]

I am sure the DDP has had impact on restaurants and how they serve. Now they have more guests than before and probably do factor in faster turn around.
That being said I know several people who have been dining at WDW for years. They all seem to remember the good ol' days when so and so restaurant had this, or served that, did this etc. (One exampe is Cape May Clam Bake. I have heard from multiple people how small the clams are compared to what they were many years ago. And who has not heard of long time guests missing Mickey butter?)
Sadly, I think that is just times changing through the years to cheaper and more efficient.

[TDC Nala]

The shrimp are half the size they used to be.

Does that really matter when it's all you can eat? Unless of course you don't LIKE the shrimp in its new form. I've had them and I thought they were pretty tasty.

I can't say I have ever cared what the butter looked like, either.

[Chuck S]

Why would anyone order the biggest thing they could get instead of what appealed to them.

I'm sorry to say, I've known people like that. If someone else is paying, or if it is a prepaid meal plan, they would always order the most expensive items, whether is was something they would normally eat or not, just because it was the most expensive item.

[DaisyD]

I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense. Could a manager have been trying to placate you? Why would anyone order the biggest thing they could get instead of what appealed to them. And the same with any other manager you spoke to....could you have been complaining and they just said something to appear to agree with you. The DDP appears to be a great success which would make most managers happy I would think.

I didn't complain at all. I simply asked where the Dad's smores was and was told first by the server why they were taken away. I was kind of incredulous about it but left it at that. A little while later the manager came out to talk to another table who was complaining of the overall kids menu. After he finished he turned and recognized me from a previous trip. He is a very nice guy who we had talked to quite a bit on a trip before about kids and allergies. Anyway we got to discussing the new menu and I asked him if it were true about the Smores and the reason behind it. He said yes and told me all about how he disliked the DDP and that there were more things going to the wayside soon because of it. Personally the Smores was enough for me that trip but usually my older DD splits it with me so we would have had to get two if she were. So there was no placating anyone. Just talking.

[DaisyD]

I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense. Could a manager have been trying to placate you? Why would anyone order the biggest thing they could get instead of what appealed to them.

Have you ever seen some of the DDPs order everything they can and then take one bite? I've seen it and so have many of the servers. Once at Kona's I watched a family next to us order dessert. The kids just wanted to split the Kona cone, which has been taken off the child menu now due to the DDP, and their mother said no. We all get dessert and you are going to get what is coming to you! So the mother, who was very loud, said she wanted the banana creme brulee and ordered that. When the server left, her husband said she doesn't like bananas so why did she order that. She said for the whipped cream. So when they got what was coming to them, she proceeded to eat the tiny dollop of whipped cream off the top and didn't touch the brulee. The server, whom we know from going there so much just kind of rolled her eyes when she came to our table next. She wasn't too happy with the DDP either. Doesn't matter though. Disney will keep whatever puts money in their pocket. They have just dumbed down the menus so that more money gets in their pocket.

[DaisyD]

Does that really matter when it's all you can eat? Unless of course you don't LIKE the shrimp in its new form. I've had them and I thought they were pretty tasty.

I can't say I have ever cared what the butter looked like, either.

Well I prefer quality more then quantity. The shrimp now used are not nearly as good as the old type.

[DaisyD]

I'm sorry to say, I've known people like that. If someone else is paying, or if it is a prepaid meal plan, they would always order the most expensive items, whether is was something they would normally eat or not, just because it was the most expensive item.

ITA. I read about it all the time on the DDP. Always asking where to get their moneys worth, where is the most expensive place to eat and so on.

[patsal]

ITA. I read about it all the time on the DDP. Always asking where to get their moneys worth, where is the most expensive place to eat and so on.

But not all the people using DDP are like this. I would be surprised if this happened more than 10% of the time. I would expect one in ten to try to max out the plan, get all that is coming to them, get quantity over quality; it is just a perceived value thing for anyone like that. With or without the DDP these people would act that way. Of course they would be eating at the buffets more so places like Kona and 50's Prime Time wouldn't see so much of them.
We must be the extreme exception then, because when I tell the kids to get what they want I mean it. Don't want an app. don't get one, don't want a dessert, don't get one, want to share dessert go ahead. There really isn't a way not to break even unless you do not eat the way the plan is designed--1 TS, 1 CS and 1 snack (easily used if for nothing more than bottled water)

[Disneyhappy]

I did not read this whole thread so I apologize if my thoughts are repetitive to other posts.

As a DVC member, I am glad the DDP is available. We have been able to try it and now make it part of some of our trips (2 out of 4 trips in 2007). It is a great deal if it works with your eating habits/plans for a particular trip. I must say that I don't like having to make our ADRs so far in advance as well as losing the flexibility as we get closer to our trips to easily change our ADRs. Restaurants definitely book up fast and early with DDP.

My biggest observation is that the menus are not what they used to be. Over the 15 years we have been regular guests of WDW, we have seen changes to the menus which were the normal course of business/change. Since the DDP has become so popular, I have seen menu changes for the worse. As a regular guest, it appears to me they are cutting back on items to accomodate the DDP. Food offerings are becoming generic. For most people that are not regular WDW guests, it will go unnoticed and they will have a wonderful dining experience duriing their WDW vacation. It is just my personal observation. I have also noticed a slight decline in service. Two of the last three times we ate at Ohanas and three out of the last three times we ate at 50's Prime Time (both were must do on kid's list -ugh!) we were disappointed in the service. There was no interaction at 50's PT and at Ohana's, the food dishes were literally thrown on the table and the courses brought to us out of order. We felt completely rushed. I think the poor servers must be exhausted and trying to push guests through.

DS no longer likes 50's PT because of our last three experiences but he won't give up on his favorite - Ohana's! We will still patronize WDW restaurants. DH & and still enjoy the signature restaurants.

[Sammie]

The Dad's Smores at 50s Prime Time. Removed specifically because of the DDP. It was originally a dessert for 2 and apparantly too many DPers were each getting their own and wasting it. So they halved the thing and charge the same price. The folks at Kona's don't care for the DDP either. I know a couple of servers there and they despise the DDP. I won't tell you what they call folks on that plan. The childrens menus are bad. The regular menus have all been dumbed down because of the DDP. Wonder why all the better cuts of meat are gone along with all the lobster? DDP.

So do they still have smores or not? If they offered a dessert for 2 then it should not have been available for one person. That is a management problem there instead of a DDP problem. Many places have desserts for two and they did not remove them from the DDP. If they simply took a dessert for two and made it a dessert for one, I am sorry but I can not see a problem with that.

I have eaten at the same places you and Jodifla have mentioned and never has anyone on the staff told us they don't like it. So as someone said I think they agree with those against and those for it. Which is the usual Disney way, tell the guest what they want to hear.

As to Yachtsman we have eaten there every trip since it opened. We ate their again this trip. We go for the Chateaubriand and the filet and they were as delicious as they have been in the past.

We left an additional $20 tip above the $40 made from the DDP, so I know our server was pleased. After we left the table he followed us to the door and asked us did we intend to leave the $20 as tip was included and when we said yes, he said I love the DDP. So not everyone is unhappy with the plan.

It truly is all about personal preferences and I can understand if a favorite has been removed, being disappointed. But I am not sure one can blame the DDP for it. I personally despise coconut, but it would be very shallow of me to expect them to remove it due to my personal dislike.

[DutchsMommy]

I have to believe like any other company, WDW is always looking for ways to increase shareholder return. Therefore, they introduce a plan which provides 'free' dining to guests. A large percentage of the visitors see this as a good deal and therefore sign on the dotted line. I would assume it is likely that first time or infrequent visitors make up the majority. Therefore, why would WDW not attempt to capitalize on the return of the DDP by limiting the menu to those items most cost effective while providing a quality meal? Most visitors would never notice and would be happy in their choice of dining. Therefore, for the most part, Disney has a win-win situation. For those purists who have the experience and expectations of Disney Dining in general, there remains the option to order a la carte at signature restaurants and for signature dishes. I don't believe you can have your cake and eat it too. I would far rather Disney be a successful company through effective cost management than a struggling company with facilities to match - I can forego a lobster or two to enjoy the overall Disney magic only possible through a strong and intelligent company. IMHO, of course :goodvibes

[bicker]

Well said, DutchsMommy.

[NMW]

And if you have a kitchen, why spend all that money on a dining plan?


I can only speak for our family, but we did NOT buy DVC for the kitchen. I have never cooked on vacation and have no intention of starting now, just because we have a kitchen. :goodvibes We use the fridge for beer, wine, soda and that's it. We eat all 3 meals out of the villa and have done it with just the DDE card and with a combo DDP/DDE card. I prefer the DDP WITH the DDE. We used both together in October and it worked great. We had the DDE discount for our extra sit down meals and all of our alcohol.

[Quicklabs]

I am really on the fence about this one. We did buy the DVC for the opportunity to cook good meals in the room and to eat them in a quiet, relaxed atmosphere. DH wants to try DDP for our upcoming trip, though. I guess we might try it this time, and re-evaluate for future trips.

[NMW]

I don't buy this one. You still get shrimp, they're just not grilled. Or are they a different type of shrimp? they tasted good, anyway.

Don't like the sausage they replaced it with on the skewers but I just don't eat it and ask for more shrimp.


I'm fairly sure the shrimp are the same size, they are just prepared differently. Two different CM's told me that they are no longer grilled because of cross-contamination on the grill for people with shell-fish allergies. Now if someone at your table has the allergy, and they refuse the shrimp that are prepared in the kitchen, there is no chance of a problem.

I thought the shrimp were very good the new way, messy, but good. :)

[starbox]

I'm fairly sure the shrimp are the same size, they are just prepared differently. Two different CM's told me that they are no longer grilled because of cross-contamination on the grill for people with shell-fish allergies. I thought the shrimp were very good the new way, messy, but good. :)

I agree, I did not think the quantitiy or quality of the shrimp went down - although I would guess that there may be some seasonal variations in size. O'hana is actually one of the restaurants that I feel has improved their menu: the bread pudding is, IMHO, vastly superior to pineapple slices with caramel. On our last trip the server gave us the recipe for the bread pudding and banana sauce - and trust me, the ingredients were much, much more expensive than a pineapple would have been.

As for Sci-Fi getting rid of s'mores - this is a restaurant that, in it's original incarnation, offered chicken and stars soup on the dinner menu. Can you imagine the outrage if they tried to do that now? Everybody would blame the DDP and lament the loss of their artichoke dip.

[bicker]

As for Sci-Fi getting rid of s'mores - this is a restaurant that, in it's original incarnation, offered chicken and stars soup on the dinner menu. Can you imagine the outrage if they tried to do that now? Everybody would blame the DDP and lament the loss of their artichoke dip.

That's a great point, starbox. Many of the restaurants are like Sci-Fi: Substantially better than they ever were imagined to be when they first opened. While things have varied over the years, the general trend at WDW dining has been upward.

[jodifla]

That's a great point, starbox. Many of the restaurants are like Sci-Fi: Substantially better than they ever were imagined to be when they first opened. While things have varied over the years, the general trend at WDW dining has been upward.

Nope, not really.

[bicker]

:rolleyes:

[jodifla]

:rolleyes:

So, you're discounting all the longtime WDW fans who've gone there for 30 years, and noticed the declined of meals and menus at WDW?


The Yachtsman IS NOT BETTER. It pretty much sucked our last visit. And if you look over on my reviews thread, you'll see poster after poster who agrees. And, it took a dive exactly when the DDP came on line.

The menus are noticeably smaller...and very similar at many restaurants.

The empirical evidence is in. Not sure why some people choose to avoid the truth.
\
I'm just glad I've got my DVC kitchen. My family can eat for a week on a fraction of the cost people blow on the DDP.

[bicker]

So, you're discounting all the longtime WDW fans who've gone there for 30 years, and noticed the declined of meals and menus at WDW?I'd discounting the long-time WDW fans who are saying what you're saying, because I know, from personal experience, that they're wrong. I'm also a long-time WDW fan who's been there through the years and I remember when it was worse. Much worse. Keeping it REAL.

[Viki]

OK, I've resisted joining in this conversation because I'm not sure any real dialogue, give and take with the possibility of moving and being moved, is taking place, but I do seem (at least to ME - lol) to have a unique opinion that isn't just repeating the above, so I'll chime in.

First, Bicker is absolutely right! WDW food 30 years ago was as bad as it could get in every single restaurant across the board, TS and CS both. Just dreadful. I lived in FLA at the time and ushered countless family and friends through the MK over and over again (during the summer, of course) and no one ever went there for the food.

Second, given that LONG TERM perspective, the food there now is dazzlingly good! All of it.

Third, I'm a DVC member and I'm thrilled that we have the opportunity to purchase the DDP. We've never used it, but it's a nice option and we will be using in December when we host DM, DD, and DNiece for a week. It will just make everything so much easier.

Fourth, I know for sure, with no room for doubt, that during FREE DDP times, menu items from signature restaurants are removed because people do, indeed, as Chuck mentioned, try to order the most expensive items on the menus in order to try and increase their bang for a buck and I know for a FACT that many people don't even like what they order (mussels at FF, for example). On the other hand, I imagine the opportunity to order items they may never have tried before (because of the cost) has afforded many folk the opportunity to try new things and find they like them!

Fifth, the menus at WDW have changed over the last few years and largely not in a positive direction, especially in terms of the number of options (fewer for the most part) now available. For example, we used to love Spoodles, there was so much to try, and now there is so little. Is this due to some of the effects of DDP? I can't imagine there isn't some connection.

Sixth, the same goes for TS availability. I don't care; I'm a planner and we stick to the plan!!! :) But, I do feel bad for many WDW visitors who have no idea that there chances of enjoying an impromtu TS meal have decreased.

So, in summary, I don't think the DDP is the end of fine dining at WDW, and I'm even glad it's available. As I said, we'll be making use of it in December. But to claim it has had no effect on the variety or quality of the food at signature dining sites just isn't right and I wonder why some feel compelled to stake out that position? :confused3

[jodifla]

I'd discounting the long-time WDW fans who are saying what you're saying, because I know, from personal experience, that they're wrong. I'm also a long-time WDW fan who's been there through the years and I remember when it was worse. Much worse. Keeping it REAL.

I agree that the food is MUCH better than when WDW opened. Unfortunately, after the glorious 90s, the food is heading right back to where it started. Expensive and lousy!

[disneymom2one]

I guess that makes me unreasonable then. :rotfl: I will admit that the DDP has caused changes but any reasonable person can see that the changes as to whether they have ruined anything is subjective and strickly one's opinion.

We just got finished with the SSR bashing, can we please not start a DDP bashing thread. :thumbsup2 There are enough of those on the Dining forums to make one's head spin.

Jodi, what items have been removed since the DDP?

Count me as the unreasonable too. We are DVC members and LOVE the DDP. We think it's a slam deal and a lot of fun too.

[TDC Nala]

I agree, I did not think the quantitiy or quality of the shrimp went down - although I would guess that there may be some seasonal variations in size. O'hana is actually one of the restaurants that I feel has improved their menu: the bread pudding is, IMHO, vastly superior to pineapple slices with caramel. On our last trip the server gave us the recipe for the bread pudding and banana sauce - and trust me, the ingredients were much, much more expensive than a pineapple would have been.

As for Sci-Fi getting rid of s'mores - this is a restaurant that, in it's original incarnation, offered chicken and stars soup on the dinner menu. Can you imagine the outrage if they tried to do that now? Everybody would blame the DDP and lament the loss of their artichoke dip.

That's another one. As far as I know they still offer the smores, just in a smaller portion, because originally Prime Time (that's the one, not Sci Fi) intended its desserts to be shared. Now, if you're paying OOP and still paying the same amount for the smaller portion, yeah, you are probably going to feel ripped off. But the DDP precluded ordering desserts to share, since everybody on the plan gets their own and isn't supposed to share.

In that situation I think I'd order another dessert, or forego dessert at the restaurant and pick one up elsewhere.

[Sammie]

Bascially Disney will never be able to please everyone, so I am sure they go with what the majority likes and at this time that is the DDP.

[bicker]

First, Bicker is absolutely right! WDW food 30 years ago was as bad as it could get in every single restaurant across the board, TS and CS both. Just dreadful. I lived in FLA at the time and ushered countless family and friends through the MK over and over again (during the summer, of course) and no one ever went there for the food. Second, given that LONG TERM perspective, the food there now is dazzlingly good! All of it.Yes, that was precisely my point. The overall trend has been overwhelmingly positive.

Fifth, the menus at WDW have changed over the last few years and largely not in a positive direction, especially in terms of the number of options (fewer for the most part) now available. For example, we used to love Spoodles, there was so much to try, and now there is so little. Is this due to some of the effects of DDP? I can't imagine there isn't some connection. There has indeed been some mediation. The improvement in TS dining in the Disney Decade, especially, was prodigious. I see the last few years as a normal, expected adjustment -- exactly what you'll see in the stock market after a big run-up in the broad indexes. In the stock marketing, they call it "profit-taking", and it is a normal part of the system.

I have to say, though, that while Spoodles has lost some of its variety, it hasn't lost quality or service. I've been there for dinner twice over the last month or so, and once for breakfast, and the food was excellent straight across the board, and the service was absolutely marvelous two out of three times.

[DaisyD]

Bascially Disney will never be able to please everyone, so I am sure they go with what the majority likes and at this time that is the DDP.

Unfortunately I do think the DDP is here to stay. At least until the quality gets so bad that even those looking for a bargain won't think it is worth it. I can only hope that they don't offer it free anymore but that is another thread altogether!

[BCV23]

Unfortunately I do think the DDP is here to stay. At least until the quality gets so bad that even those looking for a bargain won't think it is worth it. I can only hope that they don't offer it free anymore but that is another thread altogether!

Lynn, I've seen you on the Polynesian threads but didn't realize you were a DVCer as well.:goodvibes Which is your home resort?

[TDC Nala]

Unfortunately I do think the DDP is here to stay. At least until the quality gets so bad that even those looking for a bargain won't think it is worth it. I can only hope that they don't offer it free anymore but that is another thread altogether!

I think this is true. My new motto regarding DDP is "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

If I think the food is getting too expensive and too low in quality to pay for out of pocket, I'll be using the dining plan myself a lot. And, avoiding the free dining period unless I've booked a free dining package myself.

[BCV23]

But to claim it has had no effect on the variety or quality of the food at signature dining sites just isn't right and I wonder why some feel compelled to stake out that position? :confused3

Well, I stake out that position because I believe it to be correct.

I can't think of a single signature restaurant that has shortened its menu in the last two years. Variety is still the order of the day, signature or not, in my experience. We think the quality is the same as it has been for 6 or 7 years.

Menus have been getting shorteer at WDW for some years now. At the places we frequent there has been no recent change. Are you sure Spoodles shortened their menu in the last 25 months....could it have been after 9/11 or with the advent of a new chef at some point 3 or 4 years ago? We have only eaten there a few times so I can't speak to the history of that restaurant.

As someone else said, the quality and variety of food at CRT (lunch anyway) has suffered but like that poster I think it is because of the money cow that the restaurant is.

I did see some drop in quality of items served at a couple of restaurants when we were there in Sept although not free dining. Free dining is just a short time of the year though. And if I hadn't been aware of the debate here on the DIS, I'm not sure I would have noticed. sometimes things like that happen.

And I've entered this old debate because I continue to think that the absence of a couple of personal favorites on menus does not equate to a general decline in quality or variety. We miss a few things from 10, 15, even 20 years ago. And yes, we do miss the Mickey butter.:guilty: But in general, things are better.

BTW, our first onsite stay wasn't until 1983 but even way back then, the resort restaurants were good. But I agree that MK food was pitiful. We also enjoyed Epcot TS spots in the early years.

[Viki]

Well, I stake out that position because I believe it to be correct.

.

Thank you for responding, but again I think it's very curious that you maintain your position in the face of contrary statements from the very chefs who work there - who have told me personally what's happening without me ever asking them. It is THEY who are upset with the restrictions that have been imposed.

As I've said, I'm going to use the DDP; I think it has a quite a few upsides.

[KatiebugsMom]

Well for my two cents....DDP being offered to DVC members was one of the major points that put DH and I over the edge to go ahead and buy.

I have used DDP 3 times now and feel I have not had a bad meal at all. As for variety....my recent 10 day trip the end of January, I never had the same thing or even close to it the entire time. Now I will say that may have to do with my intense preplanning that I do, but even I changed things around when I got there (due to WDW making changes because of the press event) and had no problem getting what I wanted by calling WDW Dining.

Does the DDP make you plan, I agree it somewhat does, however for someone like me who has been a trip planner (a very intense planner) without the DDP, the plan definitely works for me.

[BCV23]

Thank you for responding, but again I think it's very curious that you maintain your position in the face of contrary statements from the very chefs who work there - who have told me personally what's happening without me ever asking them. It is THEY who are upset with the restrictions that have been imposed.

As I've said, I'm going to use the DDP; I think it has a quite a few upsides.

Viki, I've not read any posts about Chefs talking to you.:confused3 Or at least that I can remember.:rotfl:

Like everyone else here, I can only respond about my own experiences. I've avoided many of the threads about this but was getting tired of reading very disparaging comments about anyone who uses it. I think that is uncalled for and felt compelled to respond. BTW, I do agree with mosts of your points. I only disagree with your fifth. The 4th might be correct as well but only WDW CMs who have access to info on what is actually ordered can address that accurately IMO. I think we get a skewed sample when we read some of the ridiculous posts about maximizing the benefits or overhear a single table at Kona and then project that on everyone who uses the DDP.

[engle]

I have haggled with this idea in my head for months...to DDP or not to DDP!!

Well, after careful consideration I say this...

I am in a financial position not to worry about saving a few bucks on my meals. I am a MAJOR foodie...I LOVE food and plan many a vacation around it. So, I don't like to be limited nor do I like to waste food...I have witnessed both.

I can't imagine GETTING a part of meal just cause, well, "we paid for it" and eating one bite and throwing it away.

So, no DDP for me. I may be wasting a bit of money but no food and I can get anything I want on ANY menu.

[DaisyD]

Lynn, I've seen you on the Polynesian threads but didn't realize you were a DVCer as well.:goodvibes Which is your home resort?

Not a DVCer and not interested in being one. I just came to crash the thread. :rotfl:

[BCV23]

Not a DVCer and not interested in being one. I just came to crash the thread. :rotfl:

:rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

[DaisyD]

:rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

Now if the Poly ever offered DVC I would be the first to sign up!

[bicker]

Unfortunately I do think the DDP is here to stay. At least until the quality gets so bad that even those looking for a bargain won't think it is worth it. I can only hope that they don't offer it free anymore but that is another thread altogether!I think the changes have pretty-much evened out. Disney's done a little tweaking over the last few months, and of course things will change over time as they always have, but I believe that what we see now is pretty-much what Disney dining will be for the foreseeable future, so don't expect it to get to the point where people won't think it is worth it -- at least not on the basis of its quality. What will probably change things is a change in the economy -- people (in general) getting much richer (and therefore desiring higher quality) or getting much poorer (and therefore looking for more CS and less TS).

[bicker]

It is THEY who are upset with the restrictions that have been imposed.FWIW, they're human too. They also have desires and aspirations that affect their own memory of what is versus what was.

Regardless, regarding signature dining, I've seen no significant degradation in quality. In terms of variety, it has 100% tracked the changes in the restaurant industry nationwide. For the past five years, reducing menu size was the #1 recommendation of chef consultants. It is considered to be a path to improved quality and profitability. While not every restaurant in the country has followed this path, it is the gold standard in the industry, and Disney has kept up with the industry in this regard.

[goofydad621]

I rarely get involved with these type of threads, I get all the name calling and accusations I need in real life at my work:rotfl: but Chef Peter at Ohana told us the shrimp was going to change in Jan 05 do to the problem with cross contamination on the grill for people with seafood allergies. My wife is one of those that if she eats shrimp or food cooked on same place as shrimp has been cooked wh gets very very ill:sick:

He said that it was very hard to keep teh contamination down and that they were going to change to a different method.

Sorry for butting in.

[Viki]

Thanks again for responding.

There are so many of these sorts of threads running around and I've said the limited bit I have to say so many times, I forget which threads I've said what in (in addition to first reporting all of this in my August AKL trip report right after it was all said).

But, yes, I spoken with the chefs at Jiko and FF or, rather, they've spoken to me! That is, I've had no complaints on either occasion, but they took the time, for various reasons, to come to the table and comment on what we were ordering. In both cases they apologized that they were no longer offering other dishes we might enjoy and they attributed their lack of availability to the DDP. In the case of Jiko this was the firecracker appetizer and it was during the free dining period last fall. The chef said that the item would reappear after free DDP ended. We haven't dined there since, has it reappeared?

In any event, we did NOT have the DDP at the time and they were apologizing that our selections were reduced because others did.

As I've said, I have no horse in this raise. We have already booked the DDP for our December trip.

It's just that like many of you I like FACTS (in addition to great food) and these are facts reported from the horse's mouth as they were happening, not merely recounted from distant memories.

In any event, I'm not in any danger of starving! There is plenty of wonderful food at WDW and I hope that Bicker's view that we have now reached a point of dynamic equilibrium, that will hold for a bit, is correct.


Viki, I've not read any posts about Chefs talking to you.:confused3 Or at least that I can remember.:rotfl:

Like everyone else here, I can only respond about my own experiences. I've avoided many of the threads about this but was getting tired of reading very disparaging comments about anyone who uses it. I think that is uncalled for and felt compelled to respond. BTW, I do agree with mosts of your points. I only disagree with your fifth. The 4th might be correct as well but only WDW CMs who have access to info on what is actually ordered can address that accurately IMO. I think we get a skewed sample when we read some of the ridiculous posts about maximizing the benefits or overhear a single table at Kona and then project that on everyone who uses the DDP.

[bicker]

It's just that like many of you I like FACTSJust keep in mind that facts don't necessarily come from people. People typically provide their own view of things, not necessarily objective statements of reality.

[Viki]

Just keep in mind that facts don't necessarily come from people. People typically provide their own view of things, not necessarily objective statements of reality.

Thanks, Bicker, I get it! :)

[BCV23]

Thanks again for responding.

There are so many of these sorts of threads running around and I've said the limited bit I have to say so many times, I forget which threads I've said what in (in addition to first reporting all of this in my August AKL trip report right after it was all said).

But, yes, I spoken with the chefs at Jiko and FF or, rather, they've spoken to me! That is, I've had no complaints on either occasion, but they took the time, for various reasons, to come to the table and comment on what we were ordering. In both cases they apologized that they were no longer offering other dishes we might enjoy and they attributed their lack of availability to the DDP. In the case of Jiko this was the firecracker appetizer and it was during the free dining period last fall. The chef said that the item would reappear after free DDP ended. We haven't dined there since, has it reappeared?

In any event, we did NOT have the DDP at the time and they were apologizing that our selections were reduced because others did.

As I've said, I have no horse in this raise. We have already booked the DDP for our December trip.

It's just that like many of you I like FACTS (in addition to great food) and these are facts reported from the horse's mouth as they were happening, not merely recounted from distant memories.

In any event, I'm not in any danger of starving! There is plenty of wonderful food at WDW and I hope that Bicker's view that we have now reached a point of dynamic equilibrium, that will hold for a bit, is correct.


Thank you for responding, too. If I understand correctly though, both your experiences were during free dining. I noticed a couple of changes too in September that I attributed to the free DDP. That along with other reports of items being removed during that period have convinced me to avoid that time frame if possible. We were back in January. As it happened we didn't return to one of those restaurants and at the other, didn't order the cheese plate so I'm not sure if both reverted....sure hope so. But all our other meals were of the same quality to which we've been accustomed.

[Sammie]

As to the Firecracker Appetizer at Jiko it was removed mainly because it is fried and Disney is moving away from fried foods. I spoke with the Food and Beverage manager for AKL and they are very pleased with the DDP and certainly do not feel that any changes to menus are due to the DDP. Changes might have occurred at the time the dining plan became popular but that would be simply a matter of timing and not direct influence according to the manager.

I know that many will never accept that the DDP is not responsible, but truly it is a situtation where menus in all restaurants whether they be Disney or not, change menus. It can be due to lack of customer appeal, which does change, it can be due to health reasons, such as the current trend to get away from fried foods or it can be the availablity of and ingredient.

Basically the DDP is here to stay at this time in some form.

[Viki]

Thank you for responding, too. If I understand correctly though, both your experiences were during free dining. I noticed a couple of changes too in September that I attributed to the free DDP. That along with other reports of items being removed during that period have convinced me to avoid that time frame if possible. We were back in January. As it happened we didn't return to one of those restaurants and at the other, didn't order the cheese plate so I'm not sure if both reverted....sure hope so. But all our other meals were of the same quality to which we've been accustomed.

You're absolutely right, aside from my experience of the much abbreviated menu at Spoodles (which I do believe happened right about three years ago?) the two conversations I'm reporting happened during free dining 2006, which certainly keeps me from generalizing.

We did dine again at FF in November, but I don't recall if the mussels were back on the menu? (In fact, I haven't mentioned this before, but as it's slightly on topic I will - we had Bill as our server who, as usual, was awesome, but we were both embarrassed by the quality of the filet I was served and he quickly whisked it away to be replaced by something right up to standard.)

To Bicker's point, I would be hard pressed to argue that any of the offerings have improved in either quality or quantity. Again, I hope we've stablilized (apart from free dining).

[Viki]

As to the Firecracker Appetizer at Jiko it was removed mainly because it is fried

Sorry, friend, I don't believe this for a second. It's not what the chef at Jiko reported - quite the contrary, and if it were true I'd be equally horrified. Since when did I ask fine dining to monitor my health?

(To be honest I - almost - never order anything fried because I do monitor my health, but again I would never impose this on others. In other words, given the esteem in which folk and Jiko's chefs held the item I might have ordered it and shared it with the table, but it was the chef who was troubled by not being able to offer it, not me. I'll also mention that this conversation happened during an etraordinary meal event, not just dinner.)

[Sammie]

Sorry, friend, I don't believe this for a second. It's not what the chef at Jiko reported - quite the contrary, and if it were true I'd be equally horrified. Since when did I ask fine dining to monitor my health?

(To be honest I - almost - never order anything fried because I do monitor my health, but again I would never impose this on others. In other words, given the esteem in which folk and Jiko's chefs held the item I might have ordered it and shared it with the table, but it was the chef who was troubled by not being able to offer it, not me. I'll also mention that this conversation happened during an etraordinary meal event, not just dinner.)

I spoke with them today and this was what I was told. I told them several in our group missed the item and why was it removed and the chef/manager told me that it was due to being fried. Is it possible the chef you spoke to has left since then?

As to them monitoring your health whether you want them to or not, that is the trend right now. Disney and many other places are going toward more health concious items and fewer fried items.

They did apologize for not being able to offer it, but said the DDP was not the reason for removal of the item.

[bicker]

For those having a hard time believing Disney cares about our health, let's agree that they don't but rather cares about the public perception of the company with regard to what kind of food they serve.

[Viki]

For those having a hard time believing Disney cares about our health, let's agree that they don't but rather cares about the public perception of the company with regard to what kind of food they serve.

Thank you Bicker, but neither of those are the issue for me.

For one, I have two teens so I can testify that fried chicken fingers and fries abound in WDW.

Two, I doubt V&A's Tempura Crab Stuffed Squash Blossom with Violette Moustarde is much healthier. That is, there is nothing demonic with frying; it is a perfectly acceptable way to cook food, unless - of course - it is the predominant way you prefer your food prepared.

Again, there is something about the nature of this conversationn that seems odd. :confused3

Why so much stake put in not admitting that DDP has had an impact on the selections available at WDW restaurants? It would not be the end of the world - there are far more weighty issues! :) (Don't you hate puns!)

[eliza61]

Don't like the DDP so I don't use it. Very, very happy though that Disney has found a way to make TS dining accessable to more folks.

[bicker]

Why so much stake put in not admitting that DDP has had an impact on the selections available at WDW restaurants?I think a lot of it is that people actually believe that the reality is nothing like some folks would like others to believe, and those folks tend to use discussions like these, if left unrebutted, as a platform for peddling their own distorted sense of reality. I think it is better for everyone to have their say, say what they believe, rather than leaving contrary folks an unrebutted soap-box -- for what reason? No good reason I can see.

[gina2000]

This is an interesting discussion and one that I suspect is occurring on many internet sites.

We also just came back from WDW. We weren't and haven't been crazy about the food. What has changed for us, though, (and it doesn't matter what the cause is) is entree size and in particular, beef entree size. Now before you get crazy, understand that we dine out frequently in the NY metro area. Portion sizes do change but not as dramatically as we have seen at WDW. My DH ordered a beef tenderloin at Chef de France (your fave, Bicker, I know) and was appalled at the size. It was literally a golf ball. Now normally speaking, that works for me because I'm a smaller person. But for him, after walking miles throughout the park all day and really not eating a regular meal, it was far too small. Luckily he supplemented it with an appetizer (rubbery escargot) and a dessert. This pushed the price far higher than the quality given (our perception, not others, obviously). On the DDP it would have been fine. A la carte it was a travesty. Interestingly enough, our tuna entrees (my son's and mine) were huge. Yes, tuna is better for you. But it's also quite expensive to serve and the portion difference was amazing. The reason? I have my doubts that it's heart healthy. I suspect that more people order beef on the DDP so they cut the size of the entree to avoid waste and to increase the profit.

Can I prove it? Absolutely not. Nor do I intend to fight about it. It is what it is. We did, however, cancel the rest of our ADRs and eat offsite for the remainder of the trip. This was my husband's decision. And truthfully, I've never seen him riled up about food before. But taking into account size and quality (and I know the latter is personal), we felt that a la carte ordering was a huge rip off. So if we choose to eat onsite in the future, we'll do the DDP. It's a lose, lose for us basically because for us the quality and quantity has declined.

As an aside, I read your Spoodles review, Bicker. When I was last there, the lemon chicken was just that. Lemon chicken. There wasn't a caper or spicy black olive in sight. I'm glad they got back on track. It was one of my favorite entrees at Spoodles.

[bicker]

You must have gone to some other Chefs de France :), because the escargots I had were heavenly! The beef tenderloin was about 7 oz, which is almost twice the size an average person should eat. My wife shared a few bites with me, and left a little bit over. The perch entree I had was pretty substantial, for a fish dish, IMHO.

[BCV23]

Viki, the DDP didn't begin until 2005 so if Spoodles changed the menu in 2004 it would be hard to blame the DDP for it I think.

Gina, we've noticed smaller servings in some instances too but thought it was at least partially due to the trend for healthier servings across the board. And all servings we've had were still plenty lare enough although we've not received a golf ball sized steak. We would not be pleased either. When we had that steak a couple of trips ago....maybe last April/May?...it was probably that 7oz that bicker had. My husband does think prices have increased enough especially at the signature restaurants that a few spots are on his do not do list. Could this be due to the DDP? Maybe. Are the meals a better deal on the DDP....yes.

Well, I think I've exhausted any input I have for this thread but I'm glad it has become so typically DIS dining board friendly. Happy Disney Dining everyone.

[Sammie]

Why so much stake put in not admitting that DDP has had an impact on the selections available at WDW restaurants?

For the same reason some will not admit that the DDP has "not" had an impact.

It would not bother me in the least if the DDP was responsible for menu changes. However in my personal experiences I don't feel that to be the case, nor I have been given any evidence to support the theory. I have read opinions about the fact that the DDP is to blame.

So while yes done of this is a serious issue, just differences of opinion.

Irregardless of whether changes have occurred or not due to the DDP, we like the DDP, hope they keep it and do not feel any menu changes have reduced our enjoyment of dining at WDW.

Certainly if anyone feels different they must make the choice of whether to accept the changes or dine elsewhere.

[jodifla]

For the same reason some will not admit that the DDP has "not" had an impact.

It would not bother me in the least if the DDP was responsible for menu changes. However in my personal experiences I don't feel that to be the case, nor I have been given any evidence to support the theory. I have read opinions about the fact that the DDP is to blame.

So while yes done of this is a serious issue, just differences of opinion.

Irregardless of whether changes have occurred or not due to the DDP, we like the DDP, hope they keep it and do not feel any menu changes have reduced our enjoyment of dining at WDW.

Certainly if anyone feels different they must make the choice of whether to accept the changes or dine elsewhere.


You've been given evidence, but you choose to ignore it, time and again.

[bicker]

Personal opinions aren't evidence.

[Sammie]

Personal opinions aren't evidence.

Thank you Bicker. I am not going to argue over this, and it certainly is not some personal crusade I have. If I am going to expend that much time and energy getting upset over something, it certainly won't be something as mundane as Disney dining.

But as Bicker said, everyone has presented opinions. As I stated certainly some feel the DDP has had a negative affect on Disney dining, for me personally I have not seen that affect and while I can respect that other's opinions are different from mine, I don't agree with the "opinion" that DDP has ruined Disney dining.

We will agree to disagree and I for one will continue to enjoy my dining experiences at Disney. :thumbsup2