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View Full Version : POTC attraction to add Tia Dalma


lewis_family
02-21-2007, 10:21 PM
The character Tia Dalma will be added to the Pirates of the Caribbean attraction in both Florida and Ca. WDI stood in front of the attraction earlier today and gave few a select peak into the plans. IN Disneyland she will be in the area of the swamp and fireflies. In WDW she will be placed at the very very beginning of the cave section. In WDW they said she would not interfere with anything they may want to add further in the cave. I do not know what that means. The time table of all of this was not mentioned.

StacyPop
02-22-2007, 11:12 AM
So Cool
She Is My Favorite!

athenna
02-22-2007, 12:15 PM
Hmmm, not a bad idea, I could live with it!
Have we heard anything official, though???
pirate:

raidermatt
02-22-2007, 01:32 PM
Haven't even seen anything else even unofficial.

lewis, in what context were the plans shared?

Ariel Mae
02-22-2007, 02:29 PM
The WORST idea. Screw with the original, the classic for, what, a movie that will last maybe 10 years in our hearts? I'm sorry, but if Disney continues to do this, refurbish based on media and generations, instead of keeping to the original thoughts ideas of Sir Walt, they will lose a family.

Dznefreek
02-22-2007, 03:57 PM
The character Tia Dalma will be added to the Pirates of the Caribbean attraction in both Florida and Ca. WDI stood in front of the attraction earlier today and gave few a select peak into the plans. IN Disneyland she will be in the area of the swamp and fireflies. In WDW she will be placed at the very very beginning of the cave section. In WDW they said she would not interfere with anything they may want to add further in the cave. I do not know what that means. The time table of all of this was not mentioned.Funny; there was no mention of it on the local news and they report on everything Disney. . . . . .I am skeptical.

Mickmse2002
02-23-2007, 12:18 PM
The WORST idea. Screw with the original, the classic for, what, a movie that will last maybe 10 years in our hearts? I'm sorry, but if Disney continues to do this, refurbish based on media and generations, instead of keeping to the original thoughts ideas of Sir Walt, they will lose a family.
The attraction as it stands today isn't the same as in the "classic" sense anyway.......it has already been abandoned due to political correctness.

raidermatt
02-23-2007, 01:32 PM
The attraction as it stands today isn't the same as in the "classic" sense anyway.......it has already been abandoned due to political correctness.

True, that was a mistake. But those changes were differnt in nature than the recent changes, or this potential future one. I can understand still seeing a PotC attraction without the movie tie-ins as essentially the same attraction in spirit. Adding characters and completely changing plot/story lines is a different matter.

I can understand what Ariel Mae is getting at, and how those PC changes wouldn't have "ruined" the attraction while the current movie tie-in changes could.

Mickmse2002
02-23-2007, 01:42 PM
True, that was a mistake. But those changes were differnt in nature than the recent changes, or this potential future one. I can understand still seeing a PotC attraction without the movie tie-ins as essentially the same attraction in spirit. Adding characters and completely changing plot/story lines is a different matter.

I can understand what Ariel Mae is getting at, and how those PC changes wouldn't have "ruined" the attraction while the current movie tie-in changes could.


OK, I'll bite......

How is adding a Tia Dalma animatronic figure "ruining" the spirit of the attraction whereas the PC changes did not?

raidermatt
02-23-2007, 05:11 PM
For the purposes of this discussion I'm not saying it necessarily does, but when you take the new figures and dialogue as a whole, it does add/change significant elements of the plot.

The PC changes watered down the "evilness" (and therefore reality) a bit, and they were unfortunate, but the basic plot/story/idea didn't change.

Taking Tia Dalma by herself, it would depend on how it was done. It seems to me she would work better in DL's version, since the area around her house was more or less based on the beginning of the ride at DL. Just inserting her before the cave in the MK version seems forced.

Mickmse2002
02-23-2007, 07:24 PM
Taking Tia Dalma by herself, it would depend on how it was done. It seems to me she would work better in DL's version, since the area around her house was more or less based on the beginning of the ride at DL. Just inserting her before the cave in the MK version seems forced.
You're probably correct here, I can't imagine how they can make that work.....but then again, I'm not an imagineer.

TDC Nala
02-23-2007, 08:13 PM
er um okay...as long as her teeth don't show.

YoHo
02-23-2007, 09:17 PM
You're probably correct here, I can't imagine how they can make that work.....but then again, I'm not an imagineer.

Well, Since almost all of the Imagineers have been let go, we can presume that WDC won't know how to make it work either.

EUROPACL
02-23-2007, 09:25 PM
The character Tia Dalma will be added to the Pirates of the Caribbean attraction in both Florida and Ca.


Now I've seen both movies but i'm confused on which character this is....

http://pirate-photo.webpark.pl/will4.JPG
...is this her?

UConnJack
02-23-2007, 09:29 PM
Now I've seen both movies but i'm confused on which character this is....

...is this her?

The voodoo "witch" that lies in the hut in the swamp who helps Cpt Jack and brings back Barbossa.

deekaypee
02-23-2007, 11:17 PM
What is the confirmation of this? lewis_family, where did you get your information?

exDS vet
02-24-2007, 03:57 AM
The WORST idea. Screw with the original, the classic for, what, a movie that will last maybe 10 years in our hearts? I'm sorry, but if Disney continues to do this, refurbish based on media and generations, instead of keeping to the original thoughts ideas of Sir Walt, they will lose a family.

Where were you last year? I totally agree with you. But when I was going off on last year's "enhancements", I got very little support. I think people are starting to become a little more skeptical where these changes are concerned.

This time last year, people were getting all excited about the YOAMD, saying it would be as great at the 50th celebration. They were wrong. Almost everyone was on the POTC enhancement bandwagon. Had Disney left it at just those enhancements, I think only us true purists would have the issues.

But if this latest addition is true, it means we will continue to see additions until the the entire attraction is changed, including the theme song. I hope that if this latest rumor proves to be true, more people will speak out against it.

athenna
02-24-2007, 10:32 AM
Now I've seen both movies but i'm confused on which character this is....

http://pirate-photo.webpark.pl/will4.JPG
...is this her?


Very funny

YoHo
02-24-2007, 02:48 PM
Where were you last year? I totally agree with you. But when I was going off on last year's "enhancements", I got very little support. I think people are starting to become a little more skeptical where these changes are concerned.

This time last year, people were getting all excited about the YOAMD, saying it would be as great at the 50th celebration. They were wrong. Almost everyone was on the POTC enhancement bandwagon. Had Disney left it at just those enhancements, I think only us true purists would have the issues.

But if this latest addition is true, it means we will continue to see additions until the the entire attraction is changed, including the theme song. I hope that if this latest rumor proves to be true, more people will speak out against it.

2 Things, I was with you for the most part and you know it, though I'm really luke warm to the changes overall. If they had just put Jack and barbossa in and not changed any Dialog, it would have been awesome. I mean, an addition here or there is good Plusing as it were, but the dialog changes and Davy Jones are offensivly bad. Which makes the whole thing even out. Also, I like the additional soundtrack in the wicked wench scene.


As for the music changing, When there isn't a band playing, the music at the French MArket is now Pirates soundtrack all the time. Way to ruin New Orleans Square Idiots.

exDS vet
02-24-2007, 03:36 PM
2 Things, I was with you for the most part and you know it, though I'm really luke warm to the changes overall.

As for the music changing, When there isn't a band playing, the music at the French MArket is now Pirates soundtrack all the time. Way to ruin New Orleans Square Idiots.

Very true and I almost said "me and YoHo" in my earlier post. You and I are about the most outspoken and passionate on these issues, especially when it comes to Disneyland. I'm glad there are a few others, and it will be nice to watch as the tide turns back in our favor.

Mickmse2002
02-25-2007, 01:00 PM
Well, Since almost all of the Imagineers have been let go, we can presume that WDC won't know how to make it work either.


LOL You should thank me when I set one up for you this well.

Ariel Mae
02-26-2007, 08:13 AM
The attraction as it stands today isn't the same as in the "classic" sense anyway.......it has already been abandoned due to political correctness.

True, but that wasn't a complete redo.



How is adding a Tia Dalma animatronic figure "ruining" the spirit of the attraction whereas the PC changes did not?

Because the original spirit is NOT Johnny Depp, NOT Orlando Bloom, NOT Billy Nighy, and certainly not the actress who plays Tia Dalma.

Mickmse2002
02-26-2007, 08:27 AM
True, but that wasn't a complete redo.

There hasn't been a "complete re-do" as you are implying. Adding a few characters from the movies and changing the soundtrack hasn't resulted in a complete re-do of the attraction.


Because the original spirit is NOT Johnny Depp, NOT Orlando Bloom, NOT Billy Nighy, and certainly not the actress who plays Tia Dalma.


What IS the original spirit, as you see it?

kjkcool
02-26-2007, 06:15 PM
Very funny
No it's not!!
Poor William,my William!lol!
I actually thought Will and Liz were going in,not Tia.


(I personally hated that they added Jack adoring audio.EVERY FIVE SECONDS THE ANIMATRONIC PIRATES GO ON ABOUT JACK AS IF THEY ARE THE FAN GIRLS!!!!!!!!I love the movies,but wished it would have remained the same.)

athenna
02-26-2007, 06:17 PM
Yeah, I heard the Will & Lizzie rumor, too....As much as I love Will ( see my siggie) I dunno..Maybe they should just leave it as is now, no Tia, either..


ETA:I noticed in your siggie you are going to Pirate Adventure in May? Cool...Maybe we'll meet up!






pirate:

EUROPACL
02-26-2007, 06:56 PM
Very funny

What? Anybody can confuse

Will Turner...

http://www.nerf-herders-anonymous.net/images/KeiraKnightley_PiratesBlackPearl_ElizabethSwann.jp g

and

Tia...

http://z.about.com/d/movies/1/0/2/w/M/harrispirates1.jpg

athenna
02-26-2007, 07:30 PM
yeah, hysterical

kjkcool
02-26-2007, 07:35 PM
What? Anybody can confuse

Will Turner...

http://www.nerf-herders-anonymous.net/images/KeiraKnightley_PiratesBlackPearl_ElizabethSwann.jp g

and

Tia...

http://z.about.com/d/movies/1/0/2/w/M/harrispirates1.jpg
That one,I appreciate!:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :rotfl: :rotfl: :thumbsup2

kjkcool
02-26-2007, 07:37 PM
2 Things, I was with you for the most part and you know it, though I'm really luke warm to the changes overall. If they had just put Jack and barbossa in and not changed any Dialog, it would have been awesome. I mean, an addition here or there is good Plusing as it were, but the dialog changes and Davy Jones are offensivly bad. Which makes the whole thing even out. Also, I like the additional soundtrack in the wicked wench scene.


As for the music changing, When there isn't a band playing, the music at the French MArket is now Pirates soundtrack all the time. Way to ruin New Orleans Square Idiots.
AMEN!!!!

MJMcBride
02-26-2007, 08:58 PM
The WORST idea. Screw with the original, the classic for, what, a movie that will last maybe 10 years in our hearts? I'm sorry, but if Disney continues to do this, refurbish based on media and generations, instead of keeping to the original thoughts ideas of Sir Walt, they will lose a family.

but the new Jack Sparrow is great. I really enjoyed the updated POTC

raidermatt
02-26-2007, 09:27 PM
Well, since we're going down this road again...

This is in reference to the MK version, as I haven't yet seen the DL version.

The quality of the individual elements is good, specifically the animatronics and the mist screen, with the possible exception of the last Jack... just doesn't sound right.

But taken as a whole, it has to leave you scratching your head as to what exactly is going on. The pirates are now apparently looking for some kind of treasure Jack has found/stolen. This makes no sense when you consider the movie storylines.

There's apparently still some sort of curse involved, but whatever it is/was, it's apparently been washed away by the end as Jack sits blissfully with the treasure, no worse for the wear.

The attraction has been changed from a mysterious and somewhat ghostly adventure to a simple game of hide and seek.

It's obvious the changes were driven by "synergistic opportunities", as opposed to any desire to really enhance or improve the story or attraction.

Ariel Mae
02-27-2007, 08:06 AM
It's obvious the changes were driven by "synergistic opportunities", as opposed to any desire to really enhance or improve the story or attraction.

The changes were inspired by a movie, which will be forgotten five years from now. ("Lord of the Rings", anyone? The trilogy ended, long ago, and the popularity has since decreased...significantly. "Pirates" is most likely going to be the same fate. Media drives attention only so far. )

The original, or classic, as Walt would probably put it, deserves to stay. Like with "Journey Into Your Imagination", popularity of the ride will, most likely, decrease over time, and the Imagineers will see that, and see their fault. They did with "Journey", henceforth Figment being added back. You just don't have "Journey" without Figment.

The goal is to appeal to all ages. You can't appeal to the older generations without the classics, but you CAN appeal to the younger generations without adding new things. The classics are new enough to them.

Ariel Mae
02-27-2007, 08:07 AM
Where were you last year? I totally agree with you. But when I was going off on last year's "enhancements", I got very little support. I think people are starting to become a little more skeptical where these changes are concerned.

This time last year, people were getting all excited about the YOAMD, saying it would be as great at the 50th celebration. They were wrong. Almost everyone was on the POTC enhancement bandwagon. Had Disney left it at just those enhancements, I think only us true purists would have the issues.

But if this latest addition is true, it means we will continue to see additions until the the entire attraction is changed, including the theme song. I hope that if this latest rumor proves to be true, more people will speak out against it.

I was here last year, exDS, but not posting. :lmao: Glad to see someone agree with me. Thanks.

Ariel Mae
02-27-2007, 08:08 AM
but the new Jack Sparrow is great. I really enjoyed the updated POTC
But he's only part of a media sensation that will be temporary, if even for five to six years.

Mickmse2002
02-27-2007, 08:12 AM
The changes were inspired by a movie, which will be forgotten five years from now. ("Lord of the Rings", anyone? The trilogy ended, long ago, and the popularity has since decreased...significantly. "Pirates" is most likely going to be the same fate. Media drives attention only so far. )


So applying this logic you would agree that Dumbo, Peter Pan's Flight and Snow White's Adventure shouldn't have been built and oddly enough, stood the test of time, because of a movie tie-in?

raidermatt
02-27-2007, 12:04 PM
So applying this logic you would agree that Dumbo, Peter Pan's Flight and Snow White's Adventure shouldn't have been built and oddly enough, stood the test of time, because of a movie tie-in?

They are a re-telling of the movie or a scene from the movie in 3D form. The stories are solid to begin with.

You want to do that with Pirates, ok, take a shot at it either with the current attraction or with a new one. Obviously the movie has a story that appeals to people.

But that's not what they did. They just plunked in a few animatronics, even well done animatronics, and didn't try to really tell any kind of compelling story. They didn't add anything in that regard to the original, they didn't pull a section or moment from the movie and tell it in a 3d form, and they didn't bother to come up with any kind of new, compelling story.

They simply put Johnny Depp's likeness in so they could have Johnny Depp's likeness in. Same with the Davy Jones mist screen.

Mickmse2002
02-27-2007, 12:10 PM
They are a re-telling of the movie or a scene from the movie in 3D form. The stories are solid to begin with.

You want to do that with Pirates, ok, take a shot at it either with the current attraction or with a new one. Obviously the movie has a story that appeals to people.

But that's not what they did. They just plunked in a few animatronics, even well done animatronics, and didn't try to really tell any kind of compelling story. They didn't add anything in that regard to the original, they didn't pull a section or moment from the movie and tell it in a 3d form, and they didn't bother to come up with any kind of new, compelling story.

They simply put Johnny Depp's likeness in so they could have Johnny Depp's likeness in. Same with the Davy Jones mist screen.

You are correct. I wasn't addressing the quality of the changes to the attraction. Some parts I think are pretty cool, others not so much. If you look closely at the post I was responding to I was dealing more with the hypocrisy of slamming the changes based upon a "movie tie-in" wherein many "old Walt" attractions exist solely because of movie tie-ins. Synergy can be a good thing.

raidermatt
02-27-2007, 12:38 PM
You are correct. I wasn't addressing the quality of the changes to the attraction. Some parts I think are pretty cool, others not so much. If you look closely at the post I was responding to I was dealing more with the hypocrisy of slamming the changes based upon a "movie tie-in" wherein many "old Walt" attractions exist solely because of movie tie-ins. Synergy can be a good thing.

I caught what you were specifically addressing, but still wanted to make the point about the intent and execution of the changes. I think that if they did a better job, you'd have less people complaining about messing up the "classics".

But on synergy, it can be a good thing if it doesn't drive the creative process. Its a fine line at times, and you have to consider intent, which is always difficult. But Walt saw attractions as another way to tell his stories, and also tell others. Today's Disney often lets synergy drive what they do, and it shows in the quality, or lack thereof.

YoHo
02-27-2007, 01:51 PM
As I think I mentioned before, Davy Jones aside (that's just incredibly fricking stupid on all levels)
I have no problems with the animatronics changes. The treasure room at the end is kinda dumb, because of the implied curse in the storyline, but I'll live with that.

The dialog however is just completely retarded. If they had left all the dialog the same and just put Jack and Barbossa in, it would have been much cooler.

kjkcool
02-27-2007, 05:37 PM
As I think I mentioned before, Davy Jones aside (that's just incredibly fricking stupid on all levels)
I have no problems with the animatronics changes. The treasure room at the end is kinda dumb, because of the implied curse in the storyline, but I'll live with that.

The dialog however is just completely retarded. If they had left all the dialog the same and just put Jack and Barbossa in, it would have been much cooler.
Every five seconds in the dialoge ,Jack Sparrow is mentioned.For blind and not deaf guests,I'm sure it's welcomed.For everyone else......IT'S ANNOYING AS HECK!!!!!I bet the Imagineers were dared to see how many times they could get his name in the ride!
"Oh,where's Jack Sparrow?!" *In the friggin barrel you idiot,right over there!*
"Jack Sparrow will be looking to get his hands on the treasure for sure!" *No way!Pirates hate treasure,don't they?He wants to steal those bolts of cloth and get to looking spiffy!*:rotfl:
It drove me crazy and I thought many more of those things above the first time I rode the new version.Many were worse....lol!
I wish they could have left the audio the same,not an annoying mess!Let the guest see the touches of Jack Sparrow,not shout his existance from every rooftop of burning homes!Part of the magic of Disney is discovering things like this for yourself.:goodvibes

KidGoofy
02-27-2007, 06:21 PM
I dont think it will be that bad...what i am mad about is them losing the parrot at the entrance. I know it was almost a year since they have done this but I miss it.

athenna
02-28-2007, 08:49 AM
Yeah, I didn't see the point of them getting rid of the parrot, either.:confused3

YoHo
02-28-2007, 12:43 PM
Disneyland still has the parrot. Of course, WDW's Pirates was not nearly as good before the parrot was removed. Almost not even worth talking about.

Ariel Mae
03-04-2007, 08:10 PM
So applying this logic you would agree that Dumbo, Peter Pan's Flight and Snow White's Adventure shouldn't have been built and oddly enough, stood the test of time, because of a movie tie-in?

No, b/c those were ORIGINALS, CLASSICS, something Walt had a say of some sort in, something Walt would have most likely approved of. They're not redoing (the rides) the movies, they're retelling. Keeping exactly to the plot of the classics, not straying, at all.


They are a re-telling of the movie or a scene from the movie in 3D form. The stories are solid to begin with.

You want to do that with Pirates, ok, take a shot at it either with the current attraction or with a new one. Obviously the movie has a story that appeals to people.

But that's not what they did. They just plunked in a few animatronics, even well done animatronics, and didn't try to really tell any kind of compelling story. They didn't add anything in that regard to the original, they didn't pull a section or moment from the movie and tell it in a 3d form, and they didn't bother to come up with any kind of new, compelling story.

They simply put Johnny Depp's likeness in so they could have Johnny Depp's likeness in. Same with the Davy Jones mist screen.

Well said.

MJMcBride
03-04-2007, 08:49 PM
The changes were inspired by a movie, which will be forgotten five years from now. ("Lord of the Rings", anyone? The trilogy ended, long ago, and the popularity has since decreased...significantly. "Pirates" is most likely going to be the same fate. Media drives attention only so far. )


huh? LOTR is still hugely popular. They keep re-releasing the movies in different packaging and it sells. TNT plays the movies for whole weekends. And the studio would give Peter Jackson a blank check to do The Hobbit. How is not popular? I understand its not in a theatre but so what? Pirates will always be a popular movie as well. I'm not sure what you're definition is.

EUROPACL
03-04-2007, 09:50 PM
. And the studio would give Peter Jackson a blank check to do The Hobbit. How is not popular? I understand its not in a theatre but so what? Pirates will always be a popular movie as well. I'm not sure what you're definition is.

New Line and Jackson are currently fighting over money and opening the books for Two Towers and ROTK as Jackson thinks that he is owed more money. So New Line has refused to let Jackson do the Hobbit. The twist is that New Line loses the rights soon...I forget who gets them then, but I'm sure he will end up doing it.

Mickmse2002
03-05-2007, 09:37 AM
No, b/c those were ORIGINALS, CLASSICS, something Walt had a say of some sort in, something Walt would have most likely approved of. They're not redoing (the rides) the movies, they're retelling. Keeping exactly to the plot of the classics, not straying, at all.


Then you must have been devastated when the PC changes to the ride were implemented because those dramatically changed the plot.

I was mainly addressing your assertion that a movie tie-in was bad. On that point you are flat-out wrong. We can debate whether the quality of the changes are where we'd all like them to be but the movies were tied to the attraction and the attraction is now tied to the movies. I am willing to bet that the ridership on the attraction is up since the most recent changes. Ancedotally I believe it is just from my own experience with the lines.

raidermatt
03-05-2007, 12:32 PM
The twist is that New Line loses the rights soon...I forget who gets them then, but I'm sure he will end up doing it.

As I understand it, MGM has the distribution rights, New Line the production rights.

You are correct that New Line loses their share of the rights soon, I believe at the end of this year or sometime next year. Again, just my understanding, but I believe they then revert back to that Saul guy, and he could do what he wants with them.

I am willing to bet that the ridership on the attraction is up since the most recent changes. Ancedotally I believe it is just from my own experience with the lines.

I don't doubt that at all. When we were there last July/August, the line sometimes stretched out past the stroller parking, and that's with the outer queue being used. I had never seen that before, though I'm sure it did happen when the ride was newer.

But that is because the changes are new and the films are hot right now. When all is said and done, and we are 5 or 10 years down the road, all that will matter is how good the actual attraction is.

YoHo
03-05-2007, 01:54 PM
The lines at Disneyland were huge for the first few months and still are on really busy days, but by and large, they've returned to pre-Depp levels. Both sides are regularly open and the queues full.

Also:
Then you must have been devastated when the PC changes to the ride were implemented because those dramatically changed the plot.

Uh, NO. They didn't "Dramatically change the plot." They were kinda stupid and they went for more of a comedic feel, but the plot isn't really changed.


I never understood what the thinking was there anyway. We've just gone through a scene where they're auctioning off women with a busty, ****ty redhead who can't wait to be bedded by the pirates, but showing the pirates chasing after women is a nono.

KPeveler
03-05-2007, 03:46 PM
I havent seen the new ride (cant wait to go again!!)

But the one thing Walt loved above all else was progress. thats why i dont think he would be upset to see CoP change as it has had. the thing was always about progress in the first place.

walt understands that things must change to keep up with the time. people want to see things they know when they go to the park. people in the 50s knew swiss family robinson, but no one today does. however, they have watched tarzan.

i personally think that as long as you keep the spirit of the rides, then updating them is fine.

raidermatt
03-05-2007, 06:45 PM
i personally think that as long as you keep the spirit of the rides, then updating them is fine.

I have no problem with that statement.

It's the reasons for the updates, and the subesquent execution that causes issues sometimes.

Ariel Mae
03-05-2007, 07:11 PM
huh? LOTR is still hugely popular. They keep re-releasing the movies in different packaging and it sells. TNT plays the movies for whole weekends. And the studio would give Peter Jackson a blank check to do The Hobbit. How is not popular? I understand its not in a theatre but so what? Pirates will always be a popular movie as well. I'm not sure what you're definition is.


You rarely hear about it, anymore. It's not as main stream as it once was. "Popular". Media sensationalized. Always appearing, in some form, whether in magazines, word of mouth, billboards, commercials...you just don't see that for "Lord of the Rings" anymore. You never really saw it with "Pirates" either.

The movies haven't been on TNT in quite a few months. The movies may be being re-released, but the hysteria behind it just doesn't exist as it once was. It's more, "Lord of the Rings? Yeah, seen it." rather than, "Lord of the Rings? *Fansqueak*"

Mickmse2002
03-05-2007, 07:55 PM
I never understood what the thinking was there anyway. We've just gone through a scene where they're auctioning off women with a busty, ****ty redhead who can't wait to be bedded by the pirates, but showing the pirates chasing after women is a nono.

I thought I was the only one who didn't understand this.

Keyser
03-05-2007, 09:27 PM
You rarely hear about it, anymore. It's not as main stream as it once was. "Popular". Media sensationalized. Always appearing, in some form, whether in magazines, word of mouth, billboards, commercials...you just don't see that for "Lord of the Rings" anymore.

This is getting tangential, and basically agrees with what you're saying, but is a slightly different take.

I think there's one big difference between LoTR vs. the Pirates changes being made. With LoTR, the movies do not make the franchise - the books were around (and popular) long before, and will endure far past, the movies. The movies helped make the story more popular, but the underlying story is already there and established. If there were a LoTR attraction already existing, changing the attraction around to reflect the movie would not negate the underlying story of the books. There's a more solid "ground truth" already there.*

With Pirates, though, the attraction is what the movie was based on (barely)! By changing the attraction, you could end up switching things around - making the movie the basis for the attraction. The attraction has been proven to have a popular and long-lasting story - the movie franchise has proved no such thing. And, by making the attraction just an extension of the movie, you thereby weaken the attraction - when the movie fades over time, the attraction might, also.

Not that it can't be "updated". I haven't seen the changes to PoC, but if it were just changing the likenesses of some pirates to match those in the movies, I don't see that as a big deal. And, if they replaced the animatronics with more lifelike ones, that's fine, too (though I expect there would be an uproar among some...). But, when the fundamental story of the attraction itself starts changing, as it seems some of the recent changes have done, that could be a problem.

exDS vet
03-05-2007, 11:53 PM
So applying this logic you would agree that Dumbo, Peter Pan's Flight and Snow White's Adventure shouldn't have been built and oddly enough, stood the test of time, because of a movie tie-in?

While it's true that Walt's Fantasyland attractions were named after and in some cases retold the stories of his films (slightly), they WERE NOT movie tie-ins. What! you say? Please hear me out on this.

Attractions like Snow White's Adventures, Peter Pan's Flight, Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, Alice In Wonderland, etc. celebrated the films that built Disney. But you can't confuse those rides and their themes with the "enhancements" that were intentionally made to promote a current Disney film. There is a difference between celebrating classic Disney films and promoting new ones.

In the 1950's there were no movie tie-ins to Peter Pan, Alice, Snow White, Dumbo, etc. What was there to tie into? Home video was decades away. Television was new, and these movies only lived on film. They were occasionally re-released in theaters, but those releases were few and far between.

My point is quite simple. You cannot compare what Disney did to POTC to Walt's originaly intentions with his attractions. The argument makes no sense, and is just a way to defend the company's exploitation of their latest "fad" franchise.

I am glad this thread exists because people are starting to see that these changes to classic Disney attractions are not a good idea. I have always said that if the pirates movies were so great, then Disney should, and could be able to justify imagineering a brand new attraction based on the films. Changing the POTC rides just shows that the company does not believe that the films can stand on their own, justifying a new attraction. Or that imagineering can no longer create quality "dark" rides.

Walt Disney's original films are what built Disneyland. Those original attractions from over 50 years ago are still there because of one simple thing. All of those films are enduring classics. Nothing comes close to them. The Pirates movies may be blockbusters, but there is nothing enduring about them. As one poster pointed out, they are forgettable, and will be forgotten after this franchise ends.

The Haunted Mansion was Disney's last great "dark" ride. Nothing has come close to it. From Adventure Thru Inner Space, to Pinocchio, to Superstar Limo and even Buzz Lightyear. The mistakes have ranged from corporate being too cheap to spend the money for a quality ride, to imagineering screwing it up. Now the "S" word is being used to ruin perfectly good attractions. Disney has taken synergy too far. They need to create an original hit, an enduring hit, and then build an attraction that is worthy of such a hit.