Monorail detour through Wilderness Lodge

[jcf]

I suppose I have a better chance of winning the lottery.
But, it would make my recent purchase of VWL perfect

[Chuck S]

I suppose I have a better chance of winning the lottery.


I'd say that's about right. :rotfl:

There are monorail right of ways and easements throughout WDW, very little chance of seeing any of them built.

[tubtruck]

A Disney employee said to me that more monorail is unlikely but a light railway sytem through the park has been talked about and may turn up in the future as Disney realise that the bus system is not ideal and certainly not very imaginative. Suppose we will have to wait and see if the rumour gets any stronger.

[starbox]

I think it would ruin the theme to have the monorail at VWL. The boat is perfect.

[OKW Lover]

Speaking of monorails, every time somebody asks why Disney doesn't extend the monorail to other hotels the question of cost comes up. You often see references to a cost of $1 million per mile to extend the tracks. Well, that may be a very optomistic (low) estimate. In Las Vegas they are looking at spending over $100 million per mile to extend their monorail system.

[Maistre Gracey]

While I know this will never ever happen, it would be a logical extension. It would certainly cost a wad of money, but perhaps not be prohibitively expensive. The mono comes very close to WL now, so it would require a small detour plus the buliding of a mono station.

Some of the cost would be offset through increased revenues at WL/VWL. Reservations for accommodations and restuarant bookings would increase, and they could also significantly raise the hotel room rates. :thumbsup2

MG

[carolina_yankee]

I question the $100 million figure for LV (though that may well be right). There are a lot of forces there who seem opposed to the monorail, so that could be an inflated figure to ensure it's doom.

Also - Vegas politics/dollars are very different from Reed Creek Improvement District politics/dollars! Still - I'm sure it's extremely expensive, but I doubt prohibitively so for all time.

While I agree with starbox about the monorail clashing with the WL theming, it's not exactly a Polynesian or Victorian accessory, either!!

The problem with the monorail is that it's fairly inflexible, and not nearly as safe as a light rail would be. It would be much cheaper to build and re-route a light rail system as needs change than it would be to extend the monorail track. As for safety - if you're stuck on the track, you're stuck on the track. I know they can find you, get you down, or tow you to a platform, but a larger system would mean far more safety systems - that might be what makes it prohibitively expensive.

Dirk

[Granny]

Monorail detour through Wilderness Lodge

Personally, I'd rather see a steam locomotive and train...much more in keeping with the WL/VWL theming!

And just as likely to happen as the monorail. ;)

[diznyfanatic]

Personally, I'd rather see a steam locomotive and train...much more in keeping with the WL/VWL theming!

And just as likely to happen as the monorail. ;)

What a really cool idea Granny! Walt would definitely be smiling! :)

[Demosthenes]

I think it would ruin the theme to have the monorail at VWL. The boat is perfect.

I hear that a lot, but do you think the monorail ruins the theming of the Polynesian or Grand Floridian? It hardly seems to fit in either of those themes, but does it ruin it for you?

I don't mean to sound harsh, I'm really curious if you feel that way about the monorail in the existing hotels.

[starbox]

I hear that a lot, but do you think the monorail ruins the theming of the Polynesian or Grand Floridian? It hardly seems to fit in either of those themes, but does it ruin it for you?

I don't mean to sound harsh, I'm really curious if you feel that way about the monorail in the existing hotels.

Well, I don't really like anything about the GF - monorail included - so that's probably not a good question for me to answer.

I do love the poly and to me the monorail actually fits really well with the whole retro-50's/60's campy, kitschy vibe of the whole place.

To me, the WL and camp wilderness is just perfectly themed from the entry gates on. It feels just like a National Park - and an elegant national park resort - not a theme park-y, campy version of a lodge. I'm with Granny about the steam locomotive idea. :thumbsup2

[Wishing for GCV!]

For WDW, they are looking at about $110 million per mile. The main cost is fabricating and transporting these huge concrete beems which must be assembled on site. They are not easy to do and the labor is pretty expensive.

[Maistre Gracey]

For WDW, they are looking at about $110 million per mile. The main cost is fabricating and transporting these huge concrete beems which must be assembled on site. They are not easy to do and the labor is pretty expensive.
Just curious, but where did you get this info? How did you get a cost estimate for WDW?

Also, wouldn't they pour the concrete on site?

MG

[bigsmooth]

Mainly for entertainment purposes, since I would hope this would be an apples to oranges comparison, we here in Seattle went through a messy process of several votes to build a city monorail system (replacing the current downtown monorail that only goes from the Space Needle to downtown). It went through several iterations, but the most recent was a 10 mile, 12 station line for 1.7 Billion. That works out to $170m per mile.

Why apples vs. oranges? One, hopefully less politics involved in WDW. Other is dealing with a flatter and less developed geographic location. But still, not cheap by any means. Wonder what the original costs was in WDW for the monorail per mile?

[jco_direwolf]

Also, wouldn't they pour the concrete on site?

I believe for the existing monorail they had the beam sections fab'ed off site and trucked in. I don't remeber where I heard that, but I think it was the modern marvels episode.

$1m per mile sounds like a lot. But interstate costs about that these days. And we won't talk about the per mile cost of the big dig up in Boston.

But most of the costs of the Big Dig (that don't have to do with graf) are that you are building something though 300 year old infrastructure. Same thing with LVs monorail, they have to build around and though exisitng buildings.

Disney does have some problems with their land (it's in Fl so it's a swamp) and they are very concerned with how things look, even durning construction.

With that all said, leased buses from Mears are cheap and gives the extra flexablity. When a park closes, they stack up a ton of busses and as soon as a bus fills and leave they pull another one up. I've even seen them "Double Load" for resorts like PopC (two busses pulled up next to each other in the bay and load both of them at the same time.)

johno

[twinklebug]

Personally, I'd rather see a steam locomotive and train...much more in keeping with the WL/VWL theming!

And just as likely to happen as the monorail. ;)

What a really cool idea Granny! Walt would definitely be smiling! :)

I agree!
Don't forget Fort Wilderness had a train running through it Waaaaaay back.

Problem with this idea is, I love Wilderness lodge just the way it is. No train needed and definately no monorail.

[jakenjess]

I just saw this on I think Modern Marvels on our return trip from Disney on JetBlue. The original cost of building the monorail was $1 million per mile, so I wouldn't think today $100 million sounds out of line. I don't see it happening.

[JimC]

Personally, I'd rather see a steam locomotive and train...much more in keeping with the WL/VWL theming!

And just as likely to happen as the monorail. ;)

They had one at FW and its life was fairly short if I remember correctly. I believe noise and maintenance issues doomed it. But I agree it is the perfect theme. Possibly a steam locomotive in look, but something more hi-tech under the sheet metal.

[DVCconvert]

I believe noise and maintenance issues doomed it.

From what I recall, the biggest factor was the sizing. The compartively smaller engines could not hold enough water to effectively operate the line. On more than one occassion, the trains came to a stop mid-line or short of stations.

[sharkbait]

i agree with everyone who says it would odd there. but i have a question: even if they did decide to detour it there, would they put it like right outside like at the poly b/c that would totaly ruin the nice entrance. i think it would also wreck the whole ambiance of the lodge. but on the other hand, though, they could use another means of transportation other than buses (boats are a little slow) i guess they'll have to coem up with something totally new, which could quite possibly draw alot more people. but going back to the cost issue of the monorail, this is WDW we;re talking about, they definitley have the money, if not that will get it back when they have alot more people going to stay there b/c of the monorail. and its true, the detour wouldn't be that huge, isn't right near the contemporary's tracks?

[Wishing for GCV!]

Just curious, but where did you get this info? How did you get a cost estimate for WDW?

Also, wouldn't they pour the concrete on site?

MG
It's been known for a while now that it is going to cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 million per mile to add on to the existing loops.

They do not pour on site - which is another big cost factor. They must be trucked in piece by piece which drives the price up even more. Not to mention the cranes and labor required to actually assemble these on site. Hope I answered your question. :)

[dianeschlicht]

I think it would ruin the theme to have the monorail at VWL. The boat is perfect.

I agree! The contemporary at least fits the monorail. I personally doubt there will ever be any additional monorails built at Disney. Just too cost prohibitive.

[dizfanz]

Why in God's name wold you want another mode of transportation to go to WL. The less people that come through there the better, IMHO. I enjoy the serenity, that is the biggest draw for me. When you are there, relax and enjoy the water taxis.

[eliza61]

Why in God's name wold you want another mode of transportation to go to WL. The less people that come through there the better, IMHO. I enjoy the serenity, that is the biggest draw for me. When you are there, relax and enjoy the water taxis.
Boy, I was thinking the same thing! Maybe because I absolutely love the resort just the way it is.

[tfc3rid]

One other thing that will impact the cost of construction of such an intricate transportation system is that in Florida, if you dig about 10 feet underground to hope to pur concrete, you get water... Lots and lots and lots of water. Dewatering is not cheap!

[jco_direwolf]

One other thing that will impact the cost of construction of such an intricate transportation system is that in Florida, if you dig about 10 feet underground to hope to pur concrete, you get water... Lots and lots and lots of water. Dewatering is not cheap!

Which is why the Utilidors, aka tunnels, under MK are at what was ground level, they then covered them with dirt. The whole MK is on the second story.

When I was in school at Florida I always wondered why the tunnels didn't "float up" nor did you ever hear about them flooding. Because building even basements in Florida is a huge hassle. When I heard the whole thing was a second story, I was like AH that all makes sense now.

johno

[boBQuincy]

Looking at a Google map of the area, it appears it would be easier to reroute the Epcot monorail to include a stop at WL than it would be for the MK monorail. For aesthetics the station would have to be somewhere other than the front entrance and lobby, maybe back by the pool or the Villas.

I doubt any of this would ever happen (too many $$$) but I would like to have some option other than buses, they are so low tech, bumpy, smelly, etc.

[JimC]

From what I recall, the biggest factor was the sizing. The compartively smaller engines could not hold enough water to effectively operate the line. On more than one occassion, the trains came to a stop mid-line or short of stations.

Thanks. I had forgotten that.

[Maistre Gracey]

It's been known for a while now that it is going to cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 million per mile to add on to the existing loops.
Yes, I've seen the $100 million figure thrown around here on DISBoards, but that is just a guess.
When you said "$110 million", it sounded more exact, as though you had some sort of top secret info! :teeth:

MG

[Maistre Gracey]

Personally, I'd rather see a steam locomotive and train...much more in keeping with the WL/VWL theming!
This would be a great idea!
It would take a bit of creativity to blend the theme with other stops it may make. If it's just WL and FW, a themed depot at MK would be a breeze. :thumbsup2

Too bad the MK depot couldn't be in Frontierland...

MG

[Granny]

They had one at FW and its life was fairly short if I remember correctly. I believe noise and maintenance issues doomed it. But I agree it is the perfect theme. Possibly a steam locomotive in look, but something more hi-tech under the sheet metal.

That would still be cool. WDW is one big illusion anyway, right? ;)

Why in God's name wold you want another mode of transportation to go to WL. The less people that come through there the better, IMHO. I enjoy the serenity, that is the biggest draw for me. When you are there, relax and enjoy the water taxis.
Hey, we're just having a little fun here. We enjoy the boat ride too. Just doing a little "hot stove league" thinking about some fun things that we know will never happen.

MG....the depot in Frontierland would pretty much complete the picture, wouldn't it? Think they could put another one by the falls in Canada in EPCOT? :)

[jimmytammy]

I'm gonna join the picket line...Leave WL alone, we say take that Monorail home!:hippie: :thumbsup2

Who else wants to join me?:thumbsup2