New-Updated Rumors

[nuts]

Well, as many of you know, I have a contact within Disney who has been somewhat reliable with her info. Interesting stuff coming in...however, I would put these definately under the rumor list (not confirmed, not nothing but talk).

Over a year ago I posted a conversation she and I had about DVC learning from its mistakes with HH and VB (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=701603&referrerid=&highlight=). Basically they learned that they need more than the resort itself to attract buyers. The discussions at that time were about looking at building DVC around a DTD venue at other locations (Colorado, Hawaii, etc). You all saw the announcement from Disney that indeed this is the direction they are looking to go. It's moved from the discussion phase to the "let's make it happen" mode. Again, this would be a partnership between DVC, Resorts, and Entertainment. ESPN would more than likely join forces (along with a bunch of 3rd party companies like the one that owns Rainforest).

Next DVC will be Grand Californian. Also look for potential future growth at the land location Disney purchased a few years ago near Disneyland. Possible 3rd gate.

CRV - She is still vague on this one. Seems this may be the first true Resorts/DVC partnership. AKL is a mini-version of this. I think they are feeling out where the demand lies and how to make this partnership work. No definate timeframe. I even heard (from another source) that the build won't begin for a couple years (if at all).

Well, your mileage may vary, but that is my latest update.

[TomD]

Looking forward to seeing how all this plays out.

thanks for taking the time to post what you heard :)

[tomandrobin]

Thank you for the update!!

Looking forward to DVC expanding its resort offerings! It will be interesting to see how they can intergrate the cost per point that we are paying now for an on-site DVC resort, compared to a DVC resort at a DTD type location.

[Mickmse2002]

Be interesting to see what is next for DVC. Something in California at DL seems to make sense to me.

[Wishing for GCV!]

Next DVC will be Grand Californian. Also look for potential future growth at the land location Disney purchased a few years ago near Disneyland. Possible 3rd gate.Yes! I am so happy she said that... it made my day a little brighter. A big thank you to her and you for the updates! :teeth:

[squidmo]

Did she have any idea of the timeline for the GC DVC? I know it's still at the rumor stage, but is the feeling 1 year or several years...

[Wishing for GCV!]

Did she have any idea of the timeline for the GC DVC? I know it's still at the rumor stage, but is the feeling 1 year or several years...
Let's hope its the former and not the latter! :)

[JodyTG]

As long as they pick popular vacation destination spots it just might work. That stupid rumor about building a themepark/hotel/DVC in Frisco, TX is starting to come up again. I don't live in Frisco, but I'm only 10 minutes away and let me tell you that there's NOT MUCH TO DO THERE!!! You can go to the mall...you can go to IKEA...you can catch minor league baseball and hocky games in season...you can drive to Dallas about 20-30 minutes away (depends on traffic)...that's it.

If these are going to build in places like Frisco, I don't see it doing very well.

popcorn::

[CarolA]

As long as they pick popular vacation destination spots it just might work. That stupid rumor about building a themepark/hotel/DVC in Frisco, TX is starting to come up again. I don't live in Frisco, but I'm only 10 minutes away and let me tell you that there's NOT MUCH TO DO THERE!!! You can go to the mall...you can go to IKEA...you can catch minor league baseball and hocky games in season...you can drive to Dallas about 20-30 minutes away (depends on traffic)...that's it.

If these are going to build in places like Frisco, I don't see it doing very well.

popcorn::


To me this would be the "Disney arrogance" If we build it they will come... Uh not always. HH and VB proved that.

[dwelty]

The discussions at that time were about looking at building DVC around a DTD venue at other locations (Colorado, Hawaii, etc). You all saw the announcement from Disney that indeed this is the direction they are looking to go.


This is interesting because the city of Anaheim is building something like this across the street from Disneyland. It's called Anaheim Garden Walk. It will be a Downtown Disney type venue with Timeshares, and couple of Hotels build on the upper floors. You can google Anaheim Garden walk and see all the details.

[Sammie]

I can't imagine anyone thinking there is nothing at HHI, to attract visitors. Do you mean at the actual resort or the island?

The island is the number one repeat vacation destination for families in the nation. Over 60% are repeat visitors. Must be something there to attract people back year after year.

[Kevin&Randall]

CRV - She is still vague on this one. Seems this may be the first true Resorts/DVC partnership. AKL is a mini-version of this. I think they are feeling out where the demand lies and how to make this partnership work. No definate timeframe. I even heard (from another source) that the build won't begin for a couple years (if at all).

Could you expand on this any? How is this different from BoardWalk (Villas/Inn); Beach Club and Wilderness Lodge?

Just curious.

Randall
:rainbow:

[Sammie]

Could you expand on this any? How is this different from BoardWalk (Villas/Inn); Beach Club and Wilderness Lodge?

Just curious.

Randall
:rainbow:


The difference is that AKL, BC and WL were already there and DVC came in and added on a seperate DVC wing. AKL, is the first existing resort to allow DVC to take over a portion of the exisiting facility.

If rumors are correct DVC and Resort operations will jointly design, build and operate the new addition at the Contemporary. But who knows it could all change over night.

[Dumbo]

CRV - She is still vague on this one. Seems this may be the first true Resorts/DVC partnership.

The Boardwalk was the first true Resorts/DVC partnership. Disney built the Boardwalk Inn and Boardwalk Villas at the same time. That was over 10 years ago. They share the same front desk and check-in desk.

Dumbo

[Dean]

To me this would be the "Disney arrogance" If we build it they will come... Uh not always. HH and VB proved that.To a degree. To me they proved that Disney wasn't equipped or willing to sell timeshares they way you have to in most cases. They were simply not active or aggressive enough to do so adequately. They simply weren't willing to do what it take to compete.

I can't imagine anyone thinking there is nothing at HHI, to attract visitors. Do you mean at the actual resort or the island?

The island is the number one repeat vacation destination for families in the nation. Over 60% are repeat visitors. Must be something there to attract people back year after year.True but you're competing with companies that are far better at selling than Disney is including Spinnaker and Marriott, for cheaper prices and yearly fees, better exchange options and in many cases in locations on the island more desirable to those repeat guests. Plus DVC's sales expectations were too optimistic.

[Sammie]

To a degree. To me they proved that Disney wasn't equipped or willing to sell timeshares they way you have to in most cases. They were simply not active or aggressive enough to do so adequately. They simply weren't willing to do what it take to compete.

True but you're competing with companies that are far better at selling than Disney is including Spinnaker and Marriott, for cheaper prices and yearly fees, better exchange options and in many cases in locations on the island more desirable to those repeat guests. Plus DVC's sales expectations were too optimistic.

Dean wouldn't that also be the case in Hawaii, the Caribbean, and Colorado.

[mbw12]

To me they proved that Disney wasn't equipped or willing to sell timeshares they way you have to in most cases. They were simply not active or aggressive enough to do so adequately. They simply weren't willing to do what it take to compete.
you're competing with companies that are far better at selling than Disney is including Spinnaker and Marriott, for cheaper prices and yearly fees, better exchange options

You make a good point, Dean,......for the life of me I couldn't figure out why Disney had a hard time selling HH. It makes sense the way you put it. I guess the question is....did Disney learn from this and will pursue other resort areas and market differently.....OR will they just stay with on site Disney properties????

[diznyfanatic]

Haven't been to HH but we fell in love with VB and have always wondered why sales there were sluggish as has been repeatedly reported here. The whole resort is just lovely and the CM's there are wonderful.

The only thing I could conclude was that the MF's and the potential for a scary special assessment due to hurricane damage must have been a factor.

[ACDSNY]

I look forward to DVC spreading out to other areas, it's alway fun to see new places and still have a little Disney magic. We loved VB too.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed the next DVC is at the GC at DL.

[snyderla]

If AKV and BWV are mini versions of what Contemporary might be, I can't wait to see it!

[Dean]

Dean wouldn't that also be the case in Hawaii, the Caribbean, and Colorado.Absolutely yes, timeshares do not sell themselves even in these areas. DVC is the only exception I can think of that truly sells itself and it does so because of the parks, not just the timeshare system itself. But you make it a lot easier if you pick a location that comes close to selling itself. Simply being in HI isn't good enough. You've got to offer a premier location for the resort itself such as Kaanapali beach and set yourself apart or you've got to generate the location like Marriott did with Ko Olina. DVC did neither with VB or HH. For VB they put it in a residential area, didn't advertise it nearly enough, didn't get a way to drag in people who were already visiting the area by offering incentives and didn't find a way to get timeshare owners into the property such as developer deposits. I know these are many of the things that members like about the tours but the fact is that volume and higher pressure sell timeshares.

[Dean]

You make a good point, Dean,......for the life of me I couldn't figure out why Disney had a hard time selling HH. It makes sense the way you put it. I guess the question is....did Disney learn from this and will pursue other resort areas and market differently.....OR will they just stay with on site Disney properties????I don't think they've learned how to sell resorts that don't sell themselves. So far it appears they've learned to simply avoid the circumstance. I'll be surprised, but pleased, if we see resorts in those other areas. But given that DVC canned an announced resort in CA which they later sold to Marriott, abandoned a pending contract previously for CO and ceased discussions for a NY city location, I am not optimistic that we'll see non park related DVC resorts again. I'd love to be wrong.

[Anal Annie]

I can't imagine anyone thinking there is nothing at HHI, to attract visitors. Do you mean at the actual resort or the island?

The island is the number one repeat vacation destination for families in the nation. Over 60% are repeat visitors. Must be something there to attract people back year after year.

My thoughts are if HHI isn't a success then why is it so hard to get at 7 months? Hummm. Perhaps because it's not quite warm enough to be a true year round destination like FL....so it has a very high demand for 4-5 months or so a year then it's probably flat. I haven't been there but it sounds like the climate is the only holdback on that one.

:idea: I think something in the southwest (maybe AZ) would be a good draw. Maybe a dude ranch type of thing or something. Yeah, OK, I know it's hot there in the summer which is the flip side of HHI in the winter - but it's not the same humid crap a lot of us are used to...and I would think a close proximity to the Grand Canyon would help attract new visitors year round...I know we'd go...

[Anal Annie]

Absolutely yes, timeshares do not sell themselves even in these areas. DVC is the only exception I can think of that truly sells itself and it does so because of the parks, not just the timeshare system itself. But you make it a lot easier if you pick a location that comes close to selling itself. Simply being in HI isn't good enough. You've got to offer a premier location for the resort itself such as Kaanapali beach and set yourself apart or you've got to generate the location like Marriott did with Ko Olina. DVC did neither with VB or HH. For VB they put it in a residential area, didn't advertise it nearly enough, didn't get a way to drag in people who were already visiting the area by offering incentives and didn't find a way to get timeshare owners into the property such as developer deposits. I know these are many of the things that members like about the tours but the fact is that volume and higher pressure sell timeshares.

We hope to try VB in a couple of years...I would actually be really interested in it if they offered VB with a transportation option for the land portion of their "Land & Sea" combos rather than just the WDW resorts - I'd just as soon have 3 relaxing days at the beach as I would the parks...

[asianway]

OK, whether it be a DVC or Contemporary Resort building, site prep & construction will begin as soon as the building is razed. Every day those rooms are out of service, it is costing WDC money, they are not going to leave an asset idle for several years. When they closed the North wing doors, they knew the ultimate plan and all systems were go.

[disneymom8589]

:tinker: You can tell by my signature logo below what I'm wishing for!!

[CarolA]

I can't imagine anyone thinking there is nothing at HHI, to attract visitors. Do you mean at the actual resort or the island?

The island is the number one repeat vacation destination for families in the nation. Over 60% are repeat visitors. Must be something there to attract people back year after year.

HHI is very nice.

However, If you look at the sales history for both HH and VB Disney had a harder time selling those resorts out then they do the resorts on property. As I recall VB was even "downsized" due to a lack of response.

I think Dean said it well, Disney was not equipped to do "stand alone" resorts without the draw of the parks, I think they just assumed that DVC sells well in Orlando we can just do the same model everywhere. Maybe, maybe not. HH for example has some agressive competetion from Marriott and unlike Orlando Disney does not have the "location" card (No MK or Epcot to be NEAR LOL)

[CarolA]

OK, whether it be a DVC or Contemporary Resort building, site prep & construction will begin as soon as the building is razed. Every day those rooms are out of service, it is costing WDC money, they are not going to leave an asset idle for several years. When they closed the North wing doors, they knew the ultimate plan and all systems were go.

They aren't? (Seen those Tree houses lately? See the "Legendary Years" at Pop? Remember the closing of PORFQ?

[CinderellaPug]

They aren't? (Seen those Tree houses lately? See the "Legendary Years" at Pop? Remember the closing of PORFQ?

Good point. I guess it shows that Disney takes a lot into consideration when making decisions.

Doesn't it seem that the supposed demand for CRV would make it different than these examples?

I would think the location and appeal of CRV would motivate Disney to have something built sooner rather than later, but then again you never know.

Hey, maybe the next DVC is at River Country!!! ;)

[littlestar]

I wonder if DVC will do some kind of partnership with a big player like Marriott for more offsite locations. I mean wouldn't that make more sense then developing from scratch? Who knows what the future holds.

[Anal Annie]

HHI is very nice.

However, If you look at the sales history for both HH and VB Disney had a harder time selling those resorts out then they do the resorts on property. As I recall VB was even "downsized" due to a lack of response.


I talked to our guide about purchasing at VB 'cuz it cost so much less but he said that even tho he owns there & he loves the place he didn't recommend to purch. there 'cuz the MF are killers... They have to develop someplace where they can find the right balance for that aspect too...

[mbw12]

I talked to our guide about purchasing at VB 'cuz it cost so much less but he said that even tho he owns there & he loves the place he didn't recommend to purch. there 'cuz the MF are killers... They have to develop someplace where they can find the right balance for that aspect too...

what is MF???

[Anal Annie]

what is MF???

Maintenance Fees (annual dues)

[Dean]

My thoughts are if HHI isn't a success then why is it so hard to get at 7 months? Hummm. Perhaps because it's not quite warm enough to be a true year round destination like FL....so it has a very high demand for 4-5 months or so a year then it's probably flat. I haven't been there but it sounds like the climate is the only holdback on that one.HH is really only prime for about 2.5 months of the year, early-mid June to mid-late August. The other 9.5 months has varying degrees of demand with about 3-4 months where it's hard to give the units away due to climate. Actually HH has gotten somewhat easier to get into the last few years even as the overall DVC membership has grown.

[Boston5602]

Could it also be that what ever they are doing to the North Wing at the Contemporary , they want to go slow and take it easy, keeping the rooms OUT of inventory? The lower amount of rooms could be the excuse they use to RAISE the prices on the rooms they have left.

The last few years , although not last year becasue we bought DVC , when booking a room at a mod resort ( POR ) we had gotten an upsell to the contemp in the wings. We took it one time,If I remember right we paid $10.00 more a night.

[txbradybunch]

Keeping in mind that I am living in Texas and may be slightly biased and hopeful :mickeyjum that the rumors are true that there could actually one day be a mouse house at my back door - I must also say that I wasn't born here and plan to relocate to Florida as soon as I am able to.

But - in terms of building another Disney theme park North Texas would be a fabulous choice. North Texas has a very long season of warm weather for outdoor park activities. (The snowbirds and spring breakers come down here in droves just as they do to Florida - there is a reason they do!) North Texas has no more risk of natural disaster than Florida or California. North Texas has a huge supply of cheap labor. North Texas has two major airports serving the area and major interstate highway infrastructure. The Dallas Area Rapid Transit is expanding more and more from the downtown area to the outlying areas. While I think Frisco is a bit unrealistic - McKinney and points north along the I-75 corridor make great sense in terms of available quantities of land. The DFW area does have many other tourist attractions including Six Flags and many water parks with ticket prices not far off from Disney admission that do very well. In terms of another posters comment about there not being mush else to do in the area, I don't think it is ever Disney's goal to build a site for their guests to go spend their money in other tourist attractions! They want you to come, shop, eat, and sleep right there!

It would make great sense to have a middle US theme park, as Disney already has a location on each coast. (Look at the Six flags locations - Illinois, Missouri, Texas just off the top of my head) Disney is being smart to consider a middle america location far enough south for favorable weather. I saw another thread that suggested that Houston or San Antonio would be better - which I personally found to be ridiculous. Houston is already so overcrowded and congested it could not handle a major influx of additional traffic such as this. :scared1: In addition, the Houston transportation infrastructure is awful. The airport at San Antonio is not much better than Houston. Although there is a huge supply of cheap labor in San Antonio, most of them would have difficulty communicating with the guests in english. Also, San Antonio in my opinion would create some particular challenges in maintenance of he grounds and facilities. San Antonio is either bone dry or flooded. While North Texas has had their own water issues in past year or two, at least part of the year the grass is green here! :flower3:

IF Disney is considering another US park at all (which I've heard rumors both ways) North Texas would be a very sensible choice.

[asianway]

Let me mow these down in order.

The Treehouse Villas are a different beast altogether. The resort they were part of no longer exists, but even so, those assets are still being utilzed to house international program students. The configuration of those units presents other issues as well. Operationally, they cost more to service. A housekeeper can clean more rooms down a corridor in a normal hotel than in a two story freestanding structure as the Villas.

Legendary Years at Pop was tabled due to decreased demand post-911, same with FQ. Occupancy levels have not warranted greenlighting the rest of the project at this time. This is a different situation from shuttering existing rooms during a upswing in the lodging industry.

And the thought that they would demolish 1/4 of the resort in order to increase rates would make no business or logical sense whatsoever. Obviously occupancy at the Contemporary varies greatly due to Conventions. At times, they are 100%, all of which would represent lost revenue by taking rooms out of service. Rates would have to be increased 33% across the board AND have people pay it(keep in mind, the hotel has long struggled with achriving the rates of the Poly and GF).

The only other time an existing building has been demolished was Horizons, and that was only done once they were ready to proceed with Mission: Space. They had a plan then, they have a plan now.

[WebmasterDoc]

...
The only other time an existing building has been demolished was Horizons, and that was only done once they were ready to proceed with Mission: Space. They had a plan then, they have a plan now.

What about the Fairway Villas, Townhouse Villas, Bungalows and Grand Vista Suites at Disney Village/DI? What about the original Chef Mickey's at DD? What about Residential Street and the Backlot Theater at MGM/Studios? What about 20,000 Leagues at MK?

There is always a plan.

[vonpluto]

What about the Fairway Villas, Townhouse Villas, Bungalows and Grand Vista Suites at Disney Village/DI? What about the original Chef Mickey's at DD? What about Residential Street and the Backlot Theater at MGM/Studios? What about 20,000 Leagues at MK?

There is always a plan.

And lest we forget:
The Fireworks Factory on PI,
The Chalet Building in the Village (now WOD/McD's), Harrington Bay (now Once upon A Toy) ,
and this whatcha-ma-callit:
http://www.wdwinfo.com/photopost/data/500/1466411-86-20-copy.jpg

replaced by a kalaidescopey-thingy, replaced by a, uh,
well, ya know what they say about the best laid plans of menz and meeces.:)

[dis-happy]

I'm confused...I thought you posted last fall that CRV was definitely DOA according to your very reliable source. Is that person now changing what she's saying? Just wondering...that would be another hopeful sign. Long live the CRV.

[JimC]

I'm confused...I thought you posted last fall that CRV was definitely DOA according to your very reliable source. Is that person now changing what she's saying? Just wondering...


I suspect that Disney management altered course. They have done this in the past. And they have been known to put a project on the shelf -- DOA as you put it -- to later resurrect that project under different circumstances. For example some of California Adventure was the resurrection, with some modificaiton, of the Disney America project slated for Virginia.

[asianway]

Very good examples, thanks for the pic of the old slide at the Village, great memories there. I should have interjected, a building of that scale.

[doubletrouble_vb]

I sometimes wonder if HH's lesser draw is due to an insufficient number of studios and one bedrooms on the property. Sure families go there but I think you'd get a bit more in the way of adult travelers than on Disney property. Every time I've wanted to trade there in the off season I haven't been able to get in because what I really want is a studio and my lead time isn't all that long.

[Dumbo]

I'm confused...I thought you posted last fall that CRV was definitely DOA according to your very reliable source.
Don't feel bad. Two and a half years ago this very reliable source said that DVC was going to build a resort in Keystone Colorado. :rotfl:

Dumbo

[bababear_50]

I emailed disney about River Country --years ago my DH and I took our kids there and we had the best Disney Day of all of our Disney visits. My year of a million dreams wish is to be able to walk around River Country and just reminiss
about that trip. The location is perfect. Disney emailed back that the park had to frequently close due to high attendance and this disappointed many people expecting to get in. Their solution was to develop Typhoon Lagoon and Blizzard Beach. The email said that the property may become a part of a future or exisiting resort. To me this would be a wonderful idea.:hug: :hug:

[Dean]

I sometimes wonder if HH's lesser draw is due to an insufficient number of studios and one bedrooms on the property. Sure families go there but I think you'd get a bit more in the way of adult travelers than on Disney property. Every time I've wanted to trade there in the off season I haven't been able to get in because what I really want is a studio and my lead time isn't all that long.I doubt it. I think it's simply the seasonality plus the fact that a large part of DVC members bought in largely for WDW trips even if they own at HH. One could easily stay on HH for about 4-5 months or the year cheaper than you could own the same things and in many cases, cheaper than you could rent a comparable condo in the off season.

[the who #3]

i don't think they were as popular because everyone does not play golf or lay on the beach. :confused3 i know they are both very beautiful (never been there and never had the desire) but to go there all the time people must either be childless or never let the children know that they could be a wdw instead. maybe there is a little bit of the child in most of us adults too.::MinnieMo :yay:

[CarolA]

I have one other thought about CR.

CR was built as Disney's "convention" hotel. The truth is that at this point the facilities anre not adequate for most conventions. Could Disney look at the "expansion/rennovation/whatever" of the North Wing as a chance to bring that business BACK to the CR?

[Starr W.]

i don't think they were as popular because everyone does not play golf or lay on the beach. :confused3 i know they are both very beautiful (never been there and never had the desire) but to go there all the time people must either be childless or never let the children know that they could be a wdw instead. maybe there is a little bit of the child in most of us adults too.::MinnieMo :yay:


My kids love going to the beach, be it ocean or lake. Tell them they are going to Glen Arbor, MI and they are digging out all the beach stuff(blankets, chairs, buckets and bags for collecting rocks). They are 5 & 10 and are very excited about going to VB next year. Showed them the picture of the resort and they can't believe how close to the beach it is!

We'll probably do one beach trip per year and one or two WDW per year.

[tom401]

The discussions at that time were about looking at building DVC around a DTD venue at other locations (Colorado, Hawaii, etc). You all saw the announcement from Disney that indeed this is the direction they are looking to go. It's moved from the discussion phase to the "let's make it happen" mode. Again, this would be a partnership between DVC, Resorts, and Entertainment. ESPN would more than likely join forces (along with a bunch of 3rd party companies like the one that owns Rainforest).


I am sorry - but the venues away from WDW or DL are not attractive to me. I would prefer they invest their capital dollars at WDW - they have plenty of space their. We could come up with plenty of ideas on where they could spend it. What is the difference if you get on a place and fly to TX vs flying to FL?

[WendyinNC]

One of the main reasons I like going to WDW is the quick, easy, and inexpensive flight to Orlando. Flying to Orlando and taking Magical Express is so much easier than driving to HH with 4 kids and I live in NC. If they build outside of WDW, I hope there is good trasportation. I hate driving anywhere outside my little bubble.

[kgar2121]

wendy, when and where in the world can you find that kind of airfare to orlando? i have looked all over the place before our trips, both last aug and last month, but everything was more expensive than i would have thought it would have been

[WendyinNC]

Well, inexpensive to me may not be inexpensive to everyone. You have to understand how much I really hate driving with 4 kids in the car. I won't even consider driving to Raleigh to get cheaper fares. I usually expect to pay around $200 - $250 per person. The fares are higher right now. I haven't checked, but I would guess you can't fly to HH for that. My vacation time is too limited to worry about wasting time traveling.