Disney plans themed hotels for major U.S. cities

[crazy4wdw]

Disney plans themed hotels for major U.S. cities

Scott Powers | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted February 7, 2007, 8:03 PM EST

Walt Disney Parks and Resorts is considering putting Disney-themed hotels and nightlife districts into downtown areas of major cities that don't currently have Disney properties.

Disney is not yet making any commitments to "urban Disney hotels" or stand-alone Disney entertainment districts, Disney Parks and Resorts Chairman Jay Rasulo told investors tonight. But he outlined them as "some of the ideas our business team and Imagineers [Disney's term for designers and engineers] are thinking about," as ways to expand Disney's tourism business into new locales.

In addressing investors, Rasulo said Disney is thinking about developing major "flagship" hotels -- such as the Disney Grand Floridian at Walt Disney World -- or themed hotels that could be built in large cities that already are tourist draws.

He did not cite examples.

He also said the Downtown Disney concept has been so successful at both Disney World and Disneyland in California that the idea could be transplanted into major urban areas

[MJMcBride]

Makes some sense, but is this a DVC thing?

[YoHo]

I don't believe it is, I think it's scaled down. Though, if it takes off, expect DVC to follow.

I find it interesting that they think DTD would work elsewhere. It didn't work for Disneyquest, Do they not realize that most major cities already have shopping districts?

[MJMcBride]

true. But I imagine it would do better than the failed Disney Quest deal

[raidermatt]

true. But I imagine it would do better than the failed Disney Quest deal

I hope so.

The DTD thing could work I guess, but they would face a lot of serious competition from established retail districts in major cities. I almost think they'd be better off in more suburban areas, where a district like that would be more unique. But is turning the Disney name into a strip mall franchise a great idea? I know it works in the current resorts, and Universal has their CityWalk adjacent to their parks, but this won't have a park to anchor it.

I think the hotel idea is pretty risky. Are tourists going to want that "Disney themed experience" in the middle of Manhattan, San Francisco or D.C.?

I know they want to find different ways to grow their business because they don't feel they can sustain sufficient growth with the current resorts, but to me, stuff like this can be a lot more risky. It's related to what they know, but its also very different.

[rodkenrich]

It would a great way for Disney to show the Hotel Industry that they as a whole know how to build and maintain great resorts.

[larklynn]

when i saw it on money watch it seemed like they were going to do more then just a dd type of thing it will be interesting to see what happens. One of my coworkers saw it and thought the same thing the impression the news here gave was that it would have smaller parks like a sea world or sixflags type thing

[keishashadow]

Received this yesterday in investor newsletter...aka blue sky concepts.;) Still, very interesting IMO


Disney Parks eyes stand-alone hotels
Wednesday February 7, 10:23 pm ET

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The Walt Disney Co. (NYSE:DIS (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=dis) - News (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/h?s=dis)) is considering "blue sky concepts" of creating smaller theme parks and stand-alone hotels, retail, dining and entertainment centers, Jay Rasulo, chairman of Disney's Parks and Resorts told analysts at a conference on Wednesday

Building stand-alone hotels in urban areas where families already travel would give Disney the chance to reach out to parents who feel their children are still too young to appreciate a trip to a Disney theme park, Rasulo said.
Along those lines, Disney could locate versions of its Downtown Disneyland, a high-end retail, dining and entertainment district, in urban areas far from its parks, he said. The company also was exploring alternatives to full-size theme parks, including "a smaller, deeply immersive park" that would offer consumers a more interactive experience at higher prices.


These ideas are "blue sky concepts" that will not be executed unless the new businesses could achieve a high return on invested capital, Rasulo said.
Disney also was looking into expanding its water park offerings beyond Typhoon Lagoon and Blizzard Beach and possibly adding ships to its two-vessel cruise lines, Rasulo said.
Rasulo had little to add about the lackluster performance by Hong Kong Disneyland, which opened in September of 2007, and failed to meet first-year attendance target of 5.6 million.
"Hong Kong Disneyland developed a little more slowly than we expected in 1999 when the deal was put together" but the company was confident of its growth trajectory, he said. "We identified some challenges to be addressed in the near future in sales and marketing and seasonality," he added

[laceemouse]

I wondered if some of the "Disney is buying land in my state" rumors could be connected to this? I would think a DTD type thing would be tough to sell in some cities, but if it was something more unique or themed that could fly. Like here in north Dallas, maybe they are looking to buy land to build a resort/dude ranch type thing with a Texas theme? Still, would folks take their kids out of school to do this stuff? Would most of them be more adult oriented? I think part of the problem with Disney Quest in Chicago was when kids are in school and the tourist season is over no one would be at an arcade during the school day KWIM?? And locals would only be interested when it is something new and novel. After that you would have to get a LOT of travelers to come.

[laceemouse]

Also, outside of a few major tourist destinations in the US, don't most resorts rely heavily on business and convention travel? Even here in Texas, San Antonio is probably the largest tourist draw in the state, and that place practically closes down during the school year, even though temps are mild year 'round. You can always see the Alamo, but Six Flags and Sea World close down for the season down there. I was surprised to learn that when we first moved here!

[Chuck S]

Sounds like the MGM Las Vegas theme park mess all over again.

Since this isn't DVC specific, I am moving it to the Rumors & News board.

[Lewisc]

The Disney deluxe hotels, including the GF, are only rated 3* by the better rating books. The hotels are way overpriced for what they are. Location in WDW is the only thing that justifies the price premium. I can stay at WL because it's part of my WDW vacation or I can go to a National Park and stay in the "real thing". I'm not sure why I'd stay in a Disney run WL in a major city.

I'm not sure if Disney could compete but something like the Great Wolf Lodge concept would probably work a lot better than thinking they can clone the GF and compete with hotels like the Four Seasons.

DQ didn't work and the Disney Store didn't work. Restaurant chains like Planet Hollywood, Wolfgang Puck and Bongo's need Disney if they want a restaurant on WDW property, accessible to WDW guests by Disney buses. Those chains don't need Disney to put restaurants in other locations.

[Plutofan]

I was not sure where this should be posted. Sorry. I thought that this was interesting:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17045506/

[disney-super-mom]

Hmmmmmm, more shopping (and expensive shopping at that)? No thanks!

Smaller, deeply interactive and immersive theme parks at higher prices? Theme parks I like. Higher prices? What, the prices aren't high enough? Who's the target market here?:confused3

[nuts]

This is consistent with the rumor I mentioned last year. As it relates to DVC, this would be how they move beyond the traditional parks. Concept is to build a mini-downtown with DVC and Resorts partnering on accomodations.

[JodyTG]

I feel that the reason DTD "works" is because it's on resort property and used by tourists. I know that the locals go to Pleasure Island on the weekends, but how many of them regularly shop at DTD Marketplace?

Plus, there will always be people that would never go to a "Disney" place near their town because it doesn't belong. I love Disney but even I don't think that I'd shop at a DTD-type place near my home. There's too many other shopping places to choose from. Although, I'm sure that I would hit World of Disney once a month or so.

[korbbec]

I love the next headline after that story- "Disney's earnings more than double":rotfl2:

I also like the idea of a new water park, but something different- more along the lines of River Country. Like a Huck Finn/Tom Sawyer type environment.:cool1:

[Mickmse2002]

Interesting idea. I think if they tied-in conceptually with DVC then it could work. If DVC members had the opportunity to use their points at these hotels (at a reasonable level) then it could get traction.

[BroganMc]

Smaller, deeply interactive and immersive theme parks at higher prices? Theme parks I like. Higher prices? What, the prices aren't high enough? Who's the target market here?:confused3

Doesn't this describe the DTD/SSR area?

Smaller, deeply interactive, immersive theme parks = Disney Quest
Shopping and entertainment area = Marketplace
Dining area partnered with 3rd parties = West Side, La Nouba
Disneyfied hotels = Saratoga Springs, Old Key West, POR/POFG
3rd party hotels = Hotel Plaza Road

FWIW, DisneyQuest is already in Chicago. Maybe they think to put it in more cities around the country. Virtual monorail and virtual Space Mountain. Somehow I doubt it would be viable in a broad deployment. Rather it would dilute the theme park branding of Disney.

I also think DisneyWorld probably has enough theme parks for now. It takes 6 full days to see much of anything as is, and that's commando park touring. 8 if you include the water parks. 9 if you throw in DTD. Most people's vacations are only 7 days long.

[Chuck S]

This is not DVC specific, and is moving to the Rumors & News board.

[Chuck S]

I feel that the reason DTD "works" is because it's on resort property and used by tourists. I know that the locals go to Pleasure Island on the weekends, but how many of them regularly shop at DTD Marketplace?

Plus, there will always be people that would never go to a "Disney" place near their town because it doesn't belong. I love Disney but even I don't think that I'd shop at a DTD-type place near my home. There's too many other shopping places to choose from. Although, I'm sure that I would hit World of Disney once a month or so.

:thumbsup2 Really, they should have kept up the original selection and quality of the Disney store chain. I don't see stand alone centers and small parks making it.

[DancingBear]

FWIW, DisneyQuest is already in Chicago. FWIW, DQ failed in Chicago--it closed in 2003.

[scauzilloc]

Here is the link from the Orlando Sentinel

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/orl-bk-disneyhotels020707,0,5603094.story?track=mostemail edlink

[daannzzz]

Are these hotels that are themed like those at WDW. Dixie Landings, Caribbean Beach, Wilderness Lodge and Grand Floridian etc. Or are these hotels themed to Disney such as partnering with Comfort Inn or Hilton with a somewhat standard look on the outside and bunch of Disney references inside?

[dmk1021]

I can say one place I feel this would definitely work:

Niagara Falls.

I live in Buffalo (just 20 minutes from Niagara Falls), and Niagara Falls USA is woefully underdeveloped, yet still receives millions of visitors each year. For fun (and to spend all their money), they all go over to Niagara Falls, Canada, which has "Clifton Hill," with themed attractions, rides, and shopping - basically a cheesy (although getting better) version of WDW or DL. These "attractions" in Canada do extremely well.

If Disney purchased land in Niagara Falls, USA and developed it, they would have a built-in audience of millions who are looking to spend money in Niagara Falls, year-round (despite our winter weather). I think this would be an absolute win-win situation here.

Just a thought.

[raidermatt]

FWIW, DQ failed in Chicago--it closed in 2003.

Yes, the WDW site is the only one open, and rumors abound that its not long for the world. Certainly most agree it hasn't been getting much in the way of TLC.


Taken separately, the resort hotel idea seems the least likely to work. A "Disney-type" hotel in the middle of Manhattan just seems out of place, and they'd have to compete with all of the other quality hotels already there.

DVC could work as well as any other company's timeshare I suppose, provided Disney competes in substance with the established companies out there, like Hilton, Marriott and Starwood/Westin. Certainly the existing DVCs do not compare well as standalone units. They have a monopolistic location that makes up for that. Disney will have to significantly upgrade what it offers if its going to sit side-by-side with those other companies in places like Hawaii and the Caribbean.

The thing with the DTD's is that the existing DTDs are essentially dressed up strip malls, especially the DLR location. They are littered with brands that are pretty common in other areas of the country. So Disney would be coming in and essentially being just another mall developer. I suppose if they are smart about it, it could make money, but is being a mall landlord really the best use of Disney's resources?

If the idea is to combine all of this, then they are essentially building minature WDW's and DLRs without the parks. They'd be banking on the parks not really being the thing that draws people to WDW and DLR. I think that logic is flawed to the core, but certainly I've been wrong before.

The idea of them building small standalone parks, as some have suggested, is truly scary. The thought of a DCA anchoring some kind of urban or suburban resort should cause any Disney fan/stockholder to shudder.

In short, I think that with better execution, they have a far better opportunity to grow their business through the existing resorts than they do going out into the "real" world.

[MJMcBride]

FWIW, DQ failed in Chicago--it closed in 2003.

the whole project failed miserably. I'm kind of surprised they are revisiting it

[disaddiction828]

Chicago wasnt the only ne. Philly was suppose to get it as well but when the nw mayor stepped in and the site was all prepped and the huge ditch was dugged the DQ project was cancelled for some reason so it was never built so since then it has just been a ditch fenced off

[EUROPACL]

Chicago wasnt the only ne. Philly was suppose to get it as well but when the nw mayor stepped in and the site was all prepped and the huge ditch was dugged the DQ project was cancelled for some reason so it was never built so since then it has just been a ditch fenced off

Wait are you sure you're not talking about DCA?

[disaddiction828]

I am postive that it was Disney Quest. Believe me when I was very excited to here and see it on the nes that it was comming to center city. THen very pissed that it got cancelled.

[exDS vet]

I think a DTD in any place that does not have a Disney theme park would fail miserably. One exception and it is probably something that would never happen would be for Disney to build a resort in Las Vegas with a casino and a DTD type thing. This could work, but Disney would never get into the casino business. Would they?

Of all of Disney's attractions, etc. The one concept that I think would work outside of Anaheim or Orlando would be a Blizzard Beach-style water park. They could easily duplicate this format and put them in several metro areas. I'm actually surprised that they haven't tried this yet.

[Mickmse2002]

I think trying to replicate DTD in a regional setting would fail miserably. Heck, I wouldn't miss the one at WDW if they closed it down. I think what would have an opportunity for success is expanding the Disney themed hotel/dvc concept combined with the tourist offerings of different areas. There is certainly the conceptual foundations for this i.e. the idea of a Disney ski resort out west, the failed run at building a theme park in Virginia. If Disney Resorts/DVC focused on providing superior accomodations paired with Disney run "adventures", tours, activities, etc. then there is a reasonable chance for success.

[Jason71]

I think a DTD in any place that does not have a Disney theme park would fail miserably. One exception and it is probably something that would never happen would be for Disney to build a resort in Las Vegas with a casino and a DTD type thing. This could work, but Disney would never get into the casino business. Would they?

IIRC, Disney is one of the big spenders AGAINST gambling whenever anyone tries to legalize it in Florida. So I don't see them looking toward Vegas.

Re: the topic as a whole, the problem I see is that most cities with any sort of tourist base already have a DTD/CityWalk-like area, with some kitschy little shops and a Polly Esther's and a Howl-at-the-Moon (or similar places, you get the idea). DTD works in Orlando because so many people are on-site anyway it gives them a built-in audience. Not sure how well a stand-alone DTD would do if it had to compete with Channelside in Tampa or Beachwalk (?) in Fort Lauderdale or any of the other "adult" nightspot districts around the country.

Unless, of course, they planned to clone (or expand on the idea of) the Adventurer's Club...

[Peter Pirate 2]

The only reason Disney is against gambling in Florida is because it is seen as competition. Disney has no moral or ethical issues at work, purely money. If Disney believes a Casino complex in Las Vegas would be profitable they'd do it. Problem is they'd be going up against people who've already done "it" better.

This DTD/Resort hotel idea smacks of guys who think they've got vision, kind of like Paulie boy, but really it's just indigestion.

Hey Voice, I though you said Eisner was the shopping mall King. It look like Bob "I love the Mall of the America" Iger will be the new crown wearer. Mickey must be thrilled.
pirate:

[EUROPACL]

I am postive that it was Disney Quest. Believe me when I was very excited to here and see it on the nes that it was comming to center city. THen very pissed that it got cancelled.

...No I really think I'm correct....DCA is a big empty hole in the ground with a fence around it.

[pamlet]

when i saw it on money watch it seemed like they were going to do more then just a dd type of thing it will be interesting to see what happens. One of my coworkers saw it and thought the same thing the impression the news here gave was that it would have smaller parks like a sea world or sixflags type thing

Laugh ... are you in San Antonio? That's the impression I got from our local news this morning!

[pamlet]

the whole project failed miserably. I'm kind of surprised they are revisiting it

I truly believe the reason the project failed was because they placed it downtown ... I think they thought the tourist traffic would bring folks in. Parking was non existant (or VERY pricey) ... it was a pain in the neck to get to..

If they had put it out in the suburbs I bet they could have made it on local traffic alone... It was fun... indoors ... had they placed it further out with a huge parking lot - it would have made it...

[erikthewise]

These ideas are "blue sky concepts" that will not be executed unless the new businesses could achieve a high return on invested capital, Rasulo said.


Translation: It's an idea we're considering. Nobody said it's a GOOD idea.

[Paull117]

I could see this working in Wisconsin Dells or around the Mall of America in this neck of the woods.

Chicago it was a great idea just the wrong place if they would of put it in the shomburg(forgive on the spelling). At the time instead, the area was just starting to boom, it would have been a success.

I kind of like the idea, on a small scale. If it was the size of DTD that would be too much. I could see them joining or attaching to some shopping areas instead of building there own.

Paul

[*Robin*]

We've got indoor water parks with hotels attached popping up all over here in the midwest. I just got an invitation from King's Island's Great Wolf Lodge (http://www.greatwolf.com) in Ohio for the grand opening. I know there are at least 2 more of the same type of parks within a days driving distance.

I was wondering if Disney was going to answer with an idea of their own. Could this be that idea?

[Kitty-chan]

Are these hotels that are themed like those at WDW. Dixie Landings, Caribbean Beach, Wilderness Lodge and Grand Floridian etc. Or are these hotels themed to Disney such as partnering with Comfort Inn or Hilton with a somewhat standard look on the outside and bunch of Disney references inside?

The latter idea here occurred to me too. Something like the HI/Nick collaboration right outside WDW.

I wonder though whether they'd need to staff the place themselves. Customer service is a big part of the Disney parks/resort brand and it might be a bad idea to risk that reputation on somebody else's staff. (And of course it's kinda ironic that I'm saying this, given that Disney's starting to outsource some jobs that involve public interaction!)

[BriarRosie]

I could see this working in Wisconsin Dells or around the Mall of America in this neck of the woods.

Chicago it was a great idea just the wrong place if they would of put it in the shomburg(forgive on the spelling). At the time instead, the area was just starting to boom, it would have been a success.

I kind of like the idea, on a small scale. If it was the size of DTD that would be too much. I could see them joining or attaching to some shopping areas instead of building there own.

Paul

Psst, it's "Schaumburg", but I think you got the phonetic spelling correct! :thumbsup2

I agree that it probably would have done better there, somewhere near
the Woodfield mall. I have been to DisneyQuest Chicago only two times,
and I did drive down. Parking for the day was $16 in a nearby public parking
garage. I probably could have taken the El, but I didn't really want to.

I can't imagine this new proposal for the entertainment district would really
work well downtown, since DQ failed right in the heart of the action.

[raidermatt]

Translation: It's an idea we're considering. Nobody said it's a GOOD idea.

But what's unusual is that Disney does not normally talk about such "blue sky" concepts in conference calls with analysts. Heck, they usually don't want things leaked until construction is about to begin.

The concept art in the annual report seemed a strange move also.

[DancingBear]

Of all of Disney's attractions, etc. The one concept that I think would work outside of Anaheim or Orlando would be a Blizzard Beach-style water park. They could easily duplicate this format and put them in several metro areas. I'm actually surprised that they haven't tried this yet.This was mentioned by Rasulo--actually he mentioned the possibility of indoor or outdoor water parks.

[doubletrouble_vb]

I could see them doing this in someplace like Pigeon Forge. Sure there is already a venue sort of like this there and Gatlinburg is one giant version of it but I could actually see it working in the Pigeon Forge/Sevierville area.

I can see it working in the northern section of the Jersey Shore especially if they renovated the Asbury Park area to do it or put it up in the vicinity of Seaside Heights. Also the south shore of Long Island (the residents wouldnt be likely to let it happen though). Hilton Head could still work.

And yes I can see Las Vegas, Atlantic City, Tunica under a different name. The big catch is that there are very limited destinations in the United States that are year round destinations...Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Florida, California and Las Vegas...(Atlantic City doesn't really count even though it has a high visitation rate). If they are looking to have a good crop of tourists coming in year round I think they'll have a problem.

[whatsupmrdisney]

This must be what all the BUZZ is about. Location is about 20 north of Panama City Beach. First Airport built in 20 years and the only one built to the post 911 standards. All the land is surrounds the New Airport, you could have a monorail take you there from the Airport straight to the park. 86 square miles controlled buy Northern Trust Co. See for yourself.


ntrs.com

baypa.net search the name Northern Trust

[whatsupmrdisney]

I forgot the ??? at the end of my last post.

[minijeanie]

For me:

I pay Disney prices in their resorts because of:

A. Parks only

Consequently: I would never spend the same $$ for a hotel in a different part of the country where all I got was the Disney name.

First off,,room sizes are small, small,small
secondly,,,amenities are nill


and I would never pay $175 for an outside entrance.(other than wdw of course)

Disney would have to offer much more than just their name or a room to make me even consider staying with them...

[gabbysmom04]

I am not sure about the DTD ideas. But I would stay in a disney hotel in NYC if they had CMS working there like they do in WDW. I have to take my son to NYU all the time for DRs and surgeries. I pay close to $400 a night to be close to the hospital. That is for a so so room. Anything less will get you a room at a hotel where you are sharing your bathroom. I saw bring it on disney!!!!!!!

[serendipity]

hey if they want to buy six flags here in NJ and turn it into a small magic kingdom I am ALLLLLL for it!

[MJMcBride]

hey if they want to buy six flags here in NJ and turn it into a small magic kingdom I am ALLLLLL for it!

there ya go

[raidermatt]

Sorry, you get a small DCA.

Enjoy!

[honeymom]

I've always thought they should package Whispering Canyon.

[TXTurtle]

I live near Frisco, TX, so I've been hearing rumors for years. My first response was completely negative - don't ruin my Disney by squishing it in this dusty, boring area! Of course, that might tell you more about my feelings for north east TX than anything else:rolleyes:. But I gotta say, the more I think about it and see the few plans they've shared, the more I'd really like it. Done right, of course. Not a whole theme park, just a shopping area, theater, mini disney quest, and (please, oh please) maybe perhaps a dark ride or two. Know I'm dreaming on that last one but I'd pinch pennies for the equivilent of an AP just to ride any of Fantasyland's little rides.

And is it sad to admit I'd be happy with a small DCA just to have it here?

[rantnnravin]

Not a whole theme park, just a shopping area, theater, mini disney quest, and (please, oh please) maybe perhaps a dark ride or two.

this is just the response they're looking for
the public is the only one laying out any money.

[YoHo]

And is it sad to admit I'd be happy with a small DCA just to have it here?

You've clearly never had the "joy" of going to DCA. I wouldn't wish that place on my worst enemy.

Although, I do think Bob Iger and Eisner should be strapped into Heimlich's Chew Chew Train and be forced to ride it for the rest of eternity.

[TXTurtle]

And you clearly haven't lived in the DFW area ... we go to the airport and watch planes land for fun. Or IKEA. That's a day's worth of entertainment right there. After meeting the fun druggies downtown. Sure, there's Six Flags ... but after having been stuck in the skytower-y thing's metal, overloaded elevator for four hours ... no thanks. Dude, the parking lot tram would be exciting here.

[Another Voice]

Dude, the parking lot tram would be exciting here.
And dude, most people in Southern California wish we had our old Disneyland parking lot tram instead of California Adventure too.

If anyone wants DCA, just show up with a couple of pick-ups and we'll all help you pack it up (seriously, half the attractions are traveling carnival anyway). Sure, we'd be left with a giant empty lot. But that lot would have the one thing California Adventure lacks.

Potential.

[YoHo]

Watching Planes land and Ikea are both far far superior to DCA. At least at IKEA, you get good food at a great price.