Why are we treated so poorly????

[OKW Gram]

Here we go again - Disney just doesn't seem to get it as far as how they treat a group of people (DVC members) so heavily invested in the Disney product.

I'm going to VB for 1 night in January - then off on the 3 night cruise (me and 3 friends - 2 rooms), then off for 6 nights at in a 2 BR at OKW. I also have a studio for DS, DIL, and DGD and DGS booked for 3 nights at OKW.

I went to the Disney Store yesterday to purchase 4 day park hopper passes for the grandchildren to give them as Christmas presents. They told me I had to purchase my tickets at OKW in order to get my DVC discount. So I called OKW this a.m. only to find out that we DO NOT get ANY discount on 4 day hopper passes - only on LOS passes! Seeing as this is a family board, I will not put into print how angry I am at this. In other words, we no longer get ANY discount on our passes, unless of course, we purchase LOS passes which are substantially more expensive. We like to spend a week at the resort, but not feel obligated to go to the parks EVERY day - relaxation should be part of the vacation itinerary.

I have a call into my DVC rep, but I can't imagine there's is anything she can do to remedy this disgusting situation. Frankly I'm angry enough to contemplate selling my DVC ownership (of which I have the original and 2 add ons). I just cannot believe the arrogance of Disney. They did tell me at the Disney Store that if I purchased a Disney membership (which used to be free!) I would get a 5% discount on my 4 day hopper passes - big deal! My son and his family are already in a quandry about going as they are not real keen on flying since 9/11. This could be just enough to resolve their dilemna. I wonder how many other people that are on the fence about traveling to Disney now might have their minds made up for them by Disney's total lack of fairness when it comes to DVC.

I've said it before in relation to the lack of incentives given DVC members for the cruise (when they are discounting so deeply for cash ressies),
and now I say it again - WE ARE THE UGLY STEPSISTERS in the Disney Kingdom!!!

This is simply the straw breaking the camel's back for me. When I purchases in 97 I felt very special just to be a part of this "magic". Right now I'm feeling very used.

Up until now I have always gotten a discount on my part tickets - be it through Magic Kingdom Club at work (no longer available - converted to another money making scheme by Disney), or with my DVC membership card (which was always taken at the Disney store in the past). The real irony here is that yesterday I did purchase a Software package for my granddaughter at the story and was able to use my DVC card for that purchase. It just cannot be used for purchasing park tickets -
UNBELIEVABLE.

Is anyone else on this board feeling betrayed and used by the "Disney Kingdom". I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one feeling this way. If DVC people read these boards (as some say they do) when oh when do they hear us???????

Thanks for listening.
:( :( :confused: :mad:

[Richyams]

Other than 8 years of free passes, there has never been any decent discount on park passes.

Many people have reported getting the discount on passes at the DS, we are actually not supposed to get that discount, and many report your experience also.

I also think this is awful. I really think it would be in their best business interest to give us a decnt discount on passes. It seriously effected the time and money we spent in the park this last trip, really for the first time.

We bring lots of guests and the US, IOA, SW and other passes are so much cheaper that we have begun to take advantage of these also.

When the passes were free, we spent MUCH, MUCH more and NEVER left Disney property, those "golden handcuffs" were actually a plus to their bottom line for many guests.

[GAIL HAYDEN]

There has never been and probably never will be a DVC discount on passes to the parks, except for the Length of Stay (or whatever they are calling it this week).
Some people have received the DVC discount on the passes at the Disney store at the same rate as the MKC or DC, which is approx. 5%.
Not sure why you are angry as this has been spelled out a number of times here. Sorry you misunderstood and really sorry that you were put through the "wringer" on this one.

[JonHM]

clearly they *should* give us better discounts on passes - my personal preference would be for a DVC annual pass comparable in price to the FL residents' pass, but they don't, and this, as far as I understand, is not anything new.

As Rich said, you were never *supposed to* get the park pass discount at DS with your DVC card - I really don't want to sound harsh, but you should feel really fortunate that you had managed to get that discount all those times before when they weren't supposed to be giving it to you.

After much reflection, we bit the bullet and spent the $29 for Disney Club membership, figuring we would more than make up the dues with the saving on park passes.

OKW Gram - one suggestion - it is my understanding that 4 day park hoppers are priced very badly - for only a little bit more, you can get 5 day hoppers, and as you know, those extra days NEVER expire.

[Figaro30]

All I have to say is just because technically they aren't "supposed" to give you these perks...doesn't mean that they shouldn't.

I for one also think that they don't do enough for the "regulars" like us!! We are the true supporters of Disney and should be looked upon accordingly! :(

[OKW Gram]

I realize that our documents do not include the "right" of discounts on our park passes. But I disagree that we should just be happy that we have the accommodations we have. At present Disney is closing down hotels and cutting back on personnel due to circumstances with the economy and "the new world" we live in. Meanwhile Disney offers "specials" for cash ressies that in some instances include LOS passes. But what does Disney offer DVC members to try to persuade them to travel back to WDW? Nothing that I can see. And we certainly have much more invested in Disney than a once in 10 years trip that many will do (based on these lucrative prices). We will most likely be traveling there on a yearly basis (if not several times a year). So why do some have the attitude that we should be happy with whatever "crumbs" they throw our way and not make any waves?

Richyams: I never got the free passes. I think that was a wonderful deal for those that did get it. Some of my discounts on my park hopper passes were due to my Magic Kingdom card. This is no longer a viable alternative as Disney has now turned this into a money making scheme. And for the dues we pay yearly one would think this "new club" would be included. After all, aren't we already part of the "Disney Club"?!

thedscoop: I never joined for extra discounts either. It's pretty obvious that if that were one of the criteria for joining, there would be many less members. But, can you explain the thought process whereby I can use my DVC membership for discounting anything I want to buy in the Disney Store EXCEPT park passes? Why bother to give us that discount for everything but?

Gail Hayden: I am angry because I feel as though I have always been such a strong supporter of the Disney "magic" and my reward is that I must ultimately pay more for my pass than a casual visitor to the Kingdom. And I am angry because I feel it is such arrogance on their part.

Figaro30: You said it - true supporters. But, let's face it, Disney already knows the DVC members will be coming, so where is their incentive to do something extra to get us there?

JonHM: I thought that all passes basically reflected the approx cost of $48.00/day. I will check into a 5 day. I do realize that they don't expire. It's just that this year is a little tighter than others and plus we usually don't do more than 4 days a visit. Maybe we should do 0 days and go to SeaWorld and Universal Studios - I
know discounts are available for those places and you don't have to join a club to get them!

[Towncrier]

You might also check mousesavers.com (often referred to on the Budget Board). They have a link to a reputible ticket agent in Florida which has hopper passes at rates similar to the former Magic Kingdom Club rates.

[PKS44]

Also not trying to sound cruel, but the use of words like should and the sense of entitlement expressed in the original post really rub me the wrong way. As others have said the discounts were never part of the deal with DVC...this is a real estate transaction...do you get mad that your local supermarket doesn't give you a discount even though you bought a house in the neighborhood? Maybe your local stores do give regular customers a discount, but that is their choice to try to entice you to come, not a condition of the home purchase.

The Disney Store discount on merchandise has never included passes but some CMs were not savvy enough to realize this or to know the difference between DVC and DC (formerly MKC) or looked the other way. That is a reason to be happy about the discounts you got, not angry that they are not offered.

All discounts are offered for one reason and one reason only- to get more of your money. They are not a reward for loyalty or a way to try to get your loyalty. You have prepaid for your accomodations for the next 40 years. What you do with the rest of your money when you are on vacation is the issue. If you find that you get more value at other theme parks, Disney will have to figure out a way to try to get you back. That is the free market at work.

I guess the main point is that it is silly to get angry over this. If they do offer a discount, it is to get more of your money. And many of those in favor of discounts argue that Disney WOULD get more money if they would discount. So those who are angry are ultimately angry over the fact that Disney is getting less of your money than they could.:confused:

If there had been any fraud or force used to get you to buy DVC then anger is appropriate. There was not. You get what was promised.

Paul

[slc224]

I agree with OKW Gram. I have purchased 600 points over the last 7 years investing $40,000+ in the DVC. Along with the $1,800+ in dues I pay annually that reflects $120,000 investment (assuming no dues increase). I think we are intitled to some "special" treatment. However, it appears that being a $29/year Disney Club member and an American Express cardmember is a more lucrative deal in terms of perks.

As with Richyams, we received free passes up to 2000 and spent our entire trips at DW. However, we now treat our OKW home as more of a "base of operations" exploring other areas around DW.

Don't get me wrong....My family and I love Disney and always will. Just treat us DVCers as we should be treated.

[kamgen]

While I would LOVE to get other discounts on passes, I KNEW when I joined DVC that we didn't.
I think the discount on LOS passes is good, and while we recently bought PAP, we got LOS passes for our guests and thought they were a good deal.
We like to relax too, but love the open option of going to a park to see the evening shows, or head over to DQ. That is what LOS passes allow you to do.
YOu can also drop a day, sometimes two, from the LOS passes.
We were there from Sunday to Saturday and dropped the last day. So we had 6 day passes.

While I too have invested a great deal, we have purchased our 400 points in less than a 16 month time frame, I take any added discounts as a bonus.
I would rather get discounts on AP & PAP then on hoppers.

JMHO.

I think we should focus on getting discounts on other things, like more Cirque discounts, dining discounts, and maybe a higher discount on merchandise. JMHO.

Kamy

[danicaw]

I am sorry your are so upset.
But I bought DVC for the years of vacations to come.
I enjoy any perks that come my way but I don't think I am entitled to anything beyond the wonderful vacation homes.

Again, I am sorry you are so upset.

[one_cat]

Why are we treated so poorly? We aren't treated any differently than any other park guest. Do you think the people who rent a suite at GF think they are entitled to discount park passes, even if they do it for 3 weeks every year? When we bought DVC we were told nothing about park pass discounts and we bought anyway. If DVC put together a park pass discount it would be subsidized by our dues and I am not interested in doing that.

We have the best accomodations at Disney for such a cheap price. I am totally excited to be a DVC member even if I do have to pay my own way into the parks.

[KNWVIKING]

Would I like a discount: Absolutely. Am I angry that I don't: Absolutely not.

How to obtain a discount: Let WDW see 60,000 members stop going into the parks & eating at resorts. If we don't hit them where it hurts- in the pocket- then they have no reason to offer us a discount. Why did the old timers get the free passes,because OKW sales were slow. How are DVC sales now at on-property locations: can't build them fast enough.

I personally would like to get the annual pass at FL res prices, that I think is fair because DVC members who are also FL res basically have an advantage over non residents.

[Peggy Sue]

We purchased a real estate transaction with DVC. Some years, we won't be visiting Disney, but using our DVC points elsewhere. Park passes were never part of our investment research.

We're quite happy with our investment and we take advantage of any discount DVC may offer us during our vaction. (dining, shopping etc) But, we view these are a great bonus, not a requirement.

Actually, Disney does offer DVC a generous 10% discount on LOS passes (or what ever they are called) We personally don't find a LOS to be a good value for us due to our park touring habits, but many have reported here that they have purchased them, and like them...and a 10% discount is a great price brake.

Last year Disney offered annual pass holders a 10% discount on annual pass vouchers as an incentive to purchase them as christmas gifts. We purchased 4..planning for future years. It was a great discount that Disney didn't offer again this year. No problem..we take discounts when we can get them!

The Disney Club is a good deal for us too. Offers us the 5% discount on the hoppers, which we purchase for our guests, and a great 20% discount on car rentals with National..also free membership to the emerald aisle at national. They have some good dining discounts too.

Would we love a good park pass discount from Disney? Yes..do we feel we "deserve" one because we are DVC members? No

[niks81]

I agree with PKS--it's silly to get so upset. This is not meant to offend you, but the point of DVC is to prepay accommodations. In the end, all of us will be saving several thousand dollars...is that not reward enough??

If getting the discounts on park passes is such a priority then you should join the Disney Club, because there are discounts on lots of other stuff too. It is only 29 dollars (2.42 a month) and you get that 5% off park tickets. Or you can try www.floridaorlandotickets.com since prices are slightly lower. My personal opinion is that it would be nice if we got discounts on the passes, but it's not imperative.

Just because we "own" part of Disney until 2042 does not mean that we should get every perk there is out there. Disney is a marketing genius, and they know that giving every perk and discount to DVC is stupid. So they spread it out...DVC, Disney Club, American Express, Annual Passholder, etc. When I bought DVC (a mere 2 months ago at the age of 20 :) ) I bought for one reason: To have 40 years of vacations and memories--I did not join for the perks. How can anyone possibly complain with what they are getting here? Do the math...the perk is that you are being spared several thousand dollars over the course of 40 years. If you plunked down 13,000 or more for the simple reason that you'd get "perks" for being a member than you should sell your interest. I'm sure there is another family out there that would love to buy in for the right reasons. Again, this is just my opinion and not meant to offend anyone, but I feel strongly that being saved several thousand dollars is perk enough.

[Sorcerer]

Yes, DVC Members are entitled to a 10% discount on most merchandise at TDS, including art and collectibles except WDCC. Disney Club Members do NOT get a discount on art and collectibles at all, just the rest of the merchandise at TDS.

I'm confused about the Downtown Disney discount - I thought Disney Club was accepted there but not DVC? I don't remember, though. I'm a TDS CM so I don't use my Disney Club or DVC card for discounts in WDW, so I'm not as familiar with them.

[one_cat]

DVC does not give you a discount at Downtown Disney. We always use our Annual Pass discount there.

[PKS44]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
can you explain the thought process whereby I can use my DVC membership for discounting anything I want to buy in the Disney Store EXCEPT park passes? Why bother to give us that discount for everything but?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes-

The discount is there to entice you to spend more money in the Disney Store than you would without the discount. They figure you can buy stuffed animals and pajamas and figurines and games and toys at a lot of places but if you are getting a "discount" you are more likely to buy them from them. The park passes you are going to buy without getting a discount. You are going to WDW for 40 years, you will be there (even if you don't go they have your money spent on the accomodations)..they don't see a need to entice you to buy the park tickets. Obviously LOS tickets must not sell as well or they would not be discounted. Supply and demand and "the invisible hand," it is all very straight forward.

Paul

[antnee]

that with most discount programs (DVC,MKC,DC,etc.) that there isnt much of a discount on tickets. I mean a hotel mya close during a recession or staff laid off or room rates reduced to lure visitors but how come a better discount is not offered. Maybe a 20% discount would lure more travellers at this time????

[Ed T]

I think some people need to go clean their house or go do something constructed rather than taking time to complain about something that was never there to begin with. You really need to be honest with yourself about why you bought into DVC. Was it to become entitled? To give you something more than some regular paying guest? That you could have a country club atmosphere and be rude to the help? Everyone should be happy with what they bought and very happy if given something extra. I knew what I was buying into, read all the fine print and if I had a question when I bought I spoke with the quality assurance person to get verification. I think it's time to stop crying like selfish individuals.

Ed
DVC 1994

[WDWguru]

Okay everybody, let's take a breath here. I'm a newbie to DVC, but not to travel and I think that's what's at the root of this.

Airlines reward frequent flyers with all kinds of bonuses, upgrades, free companion certificates, etc. Hotel chains, car rental agencies and many other travel-related companies do the same. Therefore, I think the expectation of perks has some basis in reality.

Granted, we all knew when we bought in that it was or wasn't part of the deal. However, if Disney were to start any type of frequent visitor reward program, AP holders and DVC owners would be a natural place to start. It certainly couldn't hurt them. Many times over our dozens of visits DH and I (who are both frequent travellers for work and pleasure) have mused as to why Disney does or does not institute more perks for frequent visitors.

Bottom line is, they don't really NEED to. Perhaps with the current economy they'll consider it. I'm perfectly happy without it (as evidenced by the 400 points we purchased this week!) but it sure would be a nice goodwill gesture to those of us who plan to keep coming for 40 more years.

Just my 2 cents...

[robinb]

I think it's time to stop crying like selfish individuals.

My, my, my.

I think that the OP has a point. We DVC members bought into the magic for the next 40 years and IMO a discount on park passes is not an unreasonable request. We are frequent visitors and in the travel business frequent visitors often get discounts. Look at airlines and hotels, for instance. I have enough miles on AA to fly to Europe and enough Hilton points to stay there for 6 nights free.

IMO, Disney is really shooting themselves in the foot here by not offering better park pass discounts. I have an AP (bought with my $29 DC card) and I don't think I have even walked into a park without buying something. Maybe it's just a popcorn and a coke, but that's $5.50 from my pocket into the big 3-fingered glove. It's to Disney's advantage to get guests into the parks so they will spend money once they're there. If we go someplace else our money is spent someplace else.

[dianeschlicht]

Just putting in my "amen" to the statement that we bought a real estate timeshare, not entertainment at WDW. On the other hand, if you stop visiting WDW on your trips, you will be cutting off your nose to spite your face. Fewer people taking part in the WDW activities means less available. Be part of the solution, not add to the problem.

[Jimbo]

Gram OKW, the original poster, said:This is simply the straw breaking the camel's back for me. When I purchases in 97 I felt very special just to be a part of this "magic". Right now I'm feeling very used.But there wasn't a DVC discount on passes when you purchased in 1997. I know, because that's when we purchased too. In fact there has never been a discount on anything other than length-of-stay/UMP passes. So I truly don't understand how, five years later, this can be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Did anyone ever hint that this discount even existed?

More likely, the straw is actually the fact that the Magic Kingdom Club card has been replaced by the Disney Club card. But that's a totally different can of worms, and impacts everyone, not just DVC members.

[nuthut]

There has never been a DVC discount for passes. Why would you expect one now? I say if you are so upset about something that never was then sell your membership and go somewhere else to vacation. Why complain about nothing? Take action and sell!!!

[mikek]

Most times when this comes up, people compare DVC owners to frequent fliers. In Disney's mind we are far from that.

Frequent fliers, fly alot but might use any one of many airlines. In other words they have competition and the frequent flier programs are a hook to keep you with them. We all vacation alot but for the most part its already at disney since thats the best value for your points. So in there mind they have no compettition for our $$$.

Annual pass holders are more like frequent fliers. THey can jump ship and buy IOA or BG passes at anytime. So there is competition and siney affords AP holders discounts to keep 'em hooked.

As others have posted, the only way to make them realize there is competition is to make it be known we are going to Universal or wherever INSTEAD OF WDW. Unfortunately I think I'm like most, and am basically married to them and they know it. We usually go for more than 8 or 9 days in a 365 day period so its a no- brainer for us to buy AP's as that would be the cheapest. Since we've joined we havent stepped foot in another orlando park because of it. It's hard for me to muster the bucks to go to someplace else when the disney parks are already paid for with the AP.

I'd love for them to 'do the right thing' and spot me a discount, but i dont expect it to happen ever.

I suppose they discount the LOS to get people who only plan on a few days a year to 'upgrade' from hoppers and spend more.

[Johnnie Fedora]

Many companies offer incentives to entice customers, and I think Disney should do the same. I believe Disney views DVC members as a "captive audience". I'm an owner at DVC, but a customer of WDW. Disney should keep that in mind as they offer deep discounts on hotels to entice non-DVC vacationers, they should also try to capture more of my vacation dollars by enticing me to visit their parks. Nothing wrong with hoping for a discount, but it is better to write WDW and let them know you're unhappy. I'm sure they will add your letter to their "captive audience" file.

Personally, I plan on requesting and receiving my park discount by NOT visiting the parks this year. I will vacation at VWL or BCV, but not at the WDW parks. Every other year or so, I will be getting a 100% discount on my annual pass...........After all, as it always gets pointed out to people who like the idea of a better DVC pass discount, I only purchased a real estate interest, not a guarantee for a discounted park pass.;) ;) ;)

Hope your able to make the best of your situation.:)

[kamgen]

It is real simple...DVC does not NEED to offer us discounts, we go ANYWAY. :)

By joining DVC, we all told Disney we would keep coming back....and no discounts were involved in that. SO, why should they offer them when they know we'll show up without them??
JMHO.

Kamy :)

[OKW Gram]

Ed T: Just to let you know, I have already cleaned my house! Frankly I don't know what that has to do with my comments about the pricing of park passes. And I also want you to know that I don't treat CM's rudely at all. Quite to the contrary - I treat them with respect. And wherever called for I tip them well. I do not hold them responsible for decisions made by the "corporate Disney".

I also resent being classified as selfish as some others have implied. As none of these people know me at all, other than a few postings here on this board, I find these aqcusations uncalled for. Quite to the contrary, I am a very generous and caring person. I am also a very generous and caring person who is entitled to her opinion. When people on this board talk about various subjects that always seem to get someone's collar up (i.e. pool hopping, elimination of early entry, etc) I just read the posts and go on. I may not agree with their point of view, but it is just that - someone's point of view. And they are entitled to it. I don't understand why some people get upset of the EE going away, but that's
because I've never used it and probably never will. But for those that do use it I guess it is a very important perk. Up until this year I have been able to get a discount on my park passes - for whatever reason. And now that's gone away for me.

I am simply stating my point of view on the subject of discounts on park passes. From the replys it appears that we basically have two schools of thought. One group feels we do not deserve them and the other group feels we should have them in some manner or form. I obviously belong in the second group. That does not make me a selfish person. Others have given examples of various types of perks available to frequent travelers.

And just to clarify something to all - I love my DVC ownership. I love going to WDW and experiencing the magic that happens there. But that has nothing to do with my opinion that we "should" be getting better deals on park passes. As others have stated, it probably won't happen unless Disney really gets crunched in this economy and uses it as a drawing card.

I will not post again on this subject as I feel that some people are misconstruing my point. I have certainly learned one thing - don't suggest that Disney might not be "playing fair". I think park passes should be discounted for ALL of the DVC owners as a goodwill gesture on the part of Disney. I must say it baffles me why someone would NOT think that to be a good idea.

Amen from me.

[raidermatt]

There is no "should" or "entitlement" when it comes to discounts on park passes, or discounts at TDS. Just as there is no "should" when it comes to where we spend our vacation dollars.

If us DVC'ers are going to Disney parks without the discounts, there won't be any discounts. Its just that simple.

my reward is that I must ultimately pay more for my pass than a casual visitor to the Kingdom.

Simply not true. We are free to pursue the same discounts as anyone else. We can join the Club, join the military, whatever. Or we can use our 10% LOS discount.

OKW, clearly you purchased DVC with false expectations. While I understand you would be happiest if Disney met those expectations, its just not going to happen right now. If you feel that Disney needs to discount in order for you to get enough value for you $$$, then perhaps you should spend your money somewhere that you feel offers you a better value. If enough DVC'ers do the same, Disney will get the message. Personally, I get better value for a full price Disney ticket than I get from a discounted ticket anywhere else I've been, but that's just me.

[KNWVIKING]

Johnnie Fedora: I agree. Our AP expired 12-9-01 after 3 trips. When we go in May, we won't be going to the parks. Over the course of several trips we've compiled a list of things we say we're going to do "next" time,but never do them. Well,this May we're going to hit them all. I doubt very seriously if Disney will get a single $ from us unless we head over for some tonga toast.

[PamOKW]

I don't think anyone here would be opposed to getting a discount. More power to folks who want to continue to pursue this with DVC. I've fought the battle too long and now just figure it into the cost of my trip. APs work best and I keep up my DC membership to get that discount

There is a lot of "fine print" involved with DVC and lots of folks don't seem to take the time to read it. Also, sometimes a CM makes a mistakes and gives us a discount DVC doesn't really qualify for.

We are not entitled to a discount at the Disney store on ticket media or gift certificates. We are not entitlted to a discount from the Disney catalog or on-line. We don't get a discount at the World of Disney.

We get a discount on the LOS when staying on points and we can purchase that special 5 year pass (anyone done that?). None of these have ever worked for me. I would actually be happy to receive either the same DC discount and/or a reduced price to purchase the DC membership.

The only thing I didn't understand in this original post was the sudden outrage. If you've been getting the passes on your DVC card then this has been an error....consider yourself lucky. Also, the MKC was never free for many of us. Only if your employer offered the card was it free. Even Disney stockholders only got a discount on membership, not a free card. Nothing has changed from 1997 in terms of the ticket discounts to suddenly create a reason to want out of DVC. I understand wanting/hoping for DVC to come through but I gave up on this pipe dream when AK opened and we had no discount (even though MKC and AP holders were given ways to add on to their tickets). Maybe DVC will add something if they need an incentive for the new ventures....

[DeeP]

One thing that always confuses me when this topic comes up over and over again is this: DVC members go to WDW usually several times a year for a lot more than a few days at a time, so why would you even bother with hoppers when you can get so much more for your money with an Annual Pass? Since we have become DVC members, we spend 30-40 days per year at WDW our APs are really a bargain when you break down the cost per day for access into 4 theme parks. Also you get a discount when renewing your AP and if you have a DC you can get a further discount. DVC is giving us our discounts by the great discounts we get on our wonderful accomendations and will continue to get for the next 40 years, DVC is about accomendations not passes. Annual Passes give you a great discount on park passes and renewals because APs are about park passes not accomendations. They are 2 seperate animals and both are fulfilling whatever we were promised/sold when we signed on the dotted line or bought the AP at the ticket window. I have also thought and stated this before, for a DVC member to say they will now only use DVC to stay in and will spend their money at other Orlando attractions, is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. You will still be spending money to get into other Orlando attractions (other than the beach and also many of the other Orlando attractions are not as nice as WDW) and whatever little if any $ you save it will be eaten up in the cost of renting a car to get to these other attractions, gas, tolls, parking etc. To each his own, but it makes no sense to me.

[KNWVIKING]

... We plan our trips to get 3 trips on our AP's- basically weeks 1 + 2,weeks 25 + 26 and weeks 51 + 52 of a full 52 week year, and this is the cheapest vacations we can do. However, with our next 52 week cycle beginning in May, we will not be able to get a week 51-52 trip in. So rather then renew our AP's in May and only get two trips, we are going to do all those other things that we don't do when we have the AP's. Sure we're going to spend money on all the things you listed but I still think it's money better spent then only getting two AP trips in, plus we get to do & see new things. I also suspect WDW will offer a water park special in May 2002 like they did in 2001: For the price of a one day pass to TL or BB you got a 14 pass to all 3 water parks. So maybe WDW will get a few more of my $$$'s.

[Simba1]

I guess another question to those of you that feel an entitlement should ask yourselves is "why did you become a DVC member to begin with?" It wasn't for the discounts on the passes, was it?

[Towncrier]

AP's and how they work (or don't work) for us:

We generally make one trip a year to WDW for 12 nights. We have been trying to adjust our scheduled trip so that we can get two years use out of a single AP. Regardless of whether or not we can do this, the break even point for an AP is around 8 days so we will continue to use this type of pass on our WDW trips.

As far as "freebies" go, I realize that one way or another we have to pay for anything that DVC gives us whether it be cheaper passes or other such discounts. The only way that this might not be the case would be if DVC can negotiate a better pass price for us with Disney based entirely on our numbers (60,000 and growing). I remember once hearing something about "no such thing as a free lunch" or something to that effect.

But I really do miss the days of the free passes. And if you don't ask, the answer is always no. There's no harm in asking, is there?

[PamOKW]

Towncrier -- Was there any mention about passes at the Annual Meeting?

[jcodespoti]

About this topic. If you read you contract you will see what we as owners have rights to. It looks like some of us did not. As a business owner I must look at the bottom line in my business what makes me the most money now as well as any potential profits. We who own at dvc purchased the "right to use" the accomadations. Thats all, it does not say in the documents that I signed that Joe is entitiled to free passes, discounted passes (except what is currently offered). You must read what you sign and expect to get only what is in writing.


To me the most expensive part of Disney is the room (except for the Allstars resort) the parks are actually cheap IMHO.

BUT SINCE DISNEY READS THESE POSTS: GIVE US FREE PASSES!!! :)


Joe in CT

[Dean]

I've read through this thread and I'm a little confussed. True the MKC is no more and in it's place is a DC which costs $39 ($29 for many) and gives similar discounts. While many have gotten discounts on passes at the Disney Store over the years using DVC, it was by mistake of the personel at the store and never intended as a benefit. I would agree that I believe DVC should offer some type of discount for many reasons, but I won't hold my breath. I'm still trying to figure out why one should be so upset over something that truly never was.

[TnRobin]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

A reminder to not make this personal. We all are entitled to our opinions on this matter.

[Limmer]

The only thing I have to add is "money making scheme" makes it sound like they are doing something underhanded and wrong. Disney is a business and their whole operation is to make money. They are not in business to make people happy or bring about world peace. They are here to make money. Period.

[PKS44]

There are two schools of thought, true. One school is that Disney should only offer a discount if it is in their best interest economically, the other is that of the original poster-- that Disney should offer a discount as a reward to DVC members which will somehow save DVC members money but somehow ultimately make Disney more money. The latter is magical and irrational thought. It is alchemy, an economic perpetual motion machine. The whole DVC discount for loyalty, if it exists, is in the price you pay to stay in the resort. You get a luxury resort at a moderate price- they get guaranteed occupancy for 40 years.
If you think the second school of thought is correct why stop with park passes? Why not complain about the price of groceries on site? DVC members stay for long stays and buy groceries so why should they have to pay so much for groceries? Where is our grocery discount for our loyalty? They force us off site to buy groceries, etc etc. And food in the parks is so expensive, and so are those souvenir photos. Why can't we have discounts on all that, since we all go so much? It is a silly argument. There is and always will be only one reason they will offer a discount- it moves MORE of your money from your pocket to Disney's than they get without offering the discount.

Paul

[Synonymous]

"This is no longer a viable alternative as Disney has now turned this into a money making scheme."

DISNEY??? A MONEY-making scheme???

Who'd a thunk it.

I, for one, am glad Disney comes up with these money-making schemes. I own Disney stock, as well as DVC. (I really don't understand why I don't get free dinners at V&A, as a reward for my loyalty in buying part of the company.)

Putting on my stockholder hat, I'd be pretty upset with management if they started handing out discounts (otherwise known as enticements) to the very people who least need enticing. Discounts should be offered to get people into the parks who otherwise wouldn't be there. That's business.

It seems like it should be self-apparent, but WDW isn't a charity.

[Johnnie Fedora]

Many of you have implied that our dues pay for all the discounts and perks we get in the DVC program. Do you mean to tell me that DVC is reimbursing the Disney store for that 10% discount we get or WL $6.00/day for the "free" valet parking??? :rolleyes:

If our dues actually pay for these perks, then maybe DVC should do away with all of them and lower the annual dues?????? That would leave us more money for our full price park passes.:eek:

Johnnie

[PamOKW]

Johnnie -- There have been explanations about how DVC paid towards the free passes. Maybe they also have to pay something towards the LOS discount as well...I'm not sure how it works. Unless Disney decided to offer DVC a discount, a la FL resident discounts, I guess DVC probably would have to pay the difference to Disney. I believe we are already contributing toward the costs of the valets in our dues so that's why we don't have the $6 charge, at least for now. Most of the other discounts are incentives to drum up business and I don't believe DVC has any costs. This includes the Disney Store discount as well as the various golf and restaurant discounts.

[Kristi1357]

Normally, I would NEVER get involved in a thread like this. But...I have to reply to the post regarding a Disney Store CM who was not "savy" and did not know that they should not be discounting passes for DVC members. I consider myself to be a very "savy" CM, having worked there part time for almost 9 years now. I (as well as my fellow CMs) have given the MKC discount on passes to DVC members for years! From day one, the management of my store always taught CMs to give the discount to all DVC members. I only recently found out that technically we were not supposed to - simply from reading this board! I brought it up to my management team and we found out we were wrong all these years and that many stores had the same problem.

I also think guests need to understand that the parks set the regular and discounted pass prices, as well as who is entitled to which price scale. The Stores in no way mandate disounts. The Stores also get no income from the sale of park passes - it's more of a courtesy-type situation for another division of the same company. The lack of discount on passes for DVC members is not something the Stores do not want to do - it is dictated to us by WDW management. Believe me - if we could give you the discount, we certainly would!

Frankly, if your local Disney Store gave you a discount on passes in the past, you are VERY lucky. It was a major mistake by many stores' teams. And, unfortunately for you guys, due in large part to these boards, alot of Disney Stores are now aware of this problem.

I know no one was attacking me personally as a CM, but I could not resist trying to further clarify a really sticky situation.

[Werner Weiss]

PamOKW wrote:
There have been explanations about how DVC paid towards the free passes. Maybe they also have to pay something towards the LOS discount as well...I'm not sure how it works. Unless Disney decided to offer DVC a discount, a la FL resident discounts, I guess DVC probably would have to pay the difference to Disney.

There is no line item in the DVC operating statement that shows a subsidy for DVC members buying LOS passes. If there were, lots of other DVC members would be outraged. So it's safe to say this discount is offered because it's good business for Disney to encourage us to buy passes that keep us (and our wallets) visiting Disney's parks every day of our stays.

I've posted this before, but it seems appropriate to post this again in light of some of the issues raised in this thread.

Actually, perks are not necessarily funded out of dues. The services and benefits that we receive as DVC members are funded in three different ways:
DVC Dues. All DVC resort operating expenses are funded by our dues. Landscaping, shampoo, housekeeping, replacing broken dishes, bus transportaion, cable TV service, electricity, Member Services' "800" telephone expenses, Member Services staff, security, reserve funds... the list goes on and on. If members were to get high-end shampoo, conditioner, hand cream, body lotion, after-bath splash and other "free" sundries in our rooms (instead of basic bar soap and shampoo), they wouldn't be free at all -- we'd be paying for them through out dues. If I want fancy toiletries, I'd rather buy my own.
DVC / DVD Sales & Marketing. Those "free" passes that early OKW buyers received weren't paid by DVC dues. Disney Vacation Development negotiated a purchase agreement with theme park operations to provide the Limited Park Admission program to those DVC members through 1999 as a sales incentive. More recently, DVC members were sent free DVC license plates as an attention grabber to get referrals; that was a marketing expense, not an operating expense.
"Mutual Benefit." Perks such as 20% off at most Swan & Dolphin restaurants and various other discount programs aren't paid for by dues. Instead, the business entity offerering the discount sees DVC members as a large potential market. By offering a discount the business entity can increase sales, and the DVC members are happy to get better values.
Any park pass discounts would need to be justified as mutually beneficial. If DVC management could convince theme park management that they would ultimately make more money by offering better discounts to DVC members, we would get such discounts. If theme park management just thinks that DVC members would buy the same number of passes but pay less for them, we won't get better discounts. (I don't think anyone has suggested that theme park pass discounts should be funded through DVC dues.)

[Towncrier]

PamOKW - The question of passes was raised at the OKW meeting by a member of the audience. True to form, DVC management danced around the issue and essentially didn't answer the question. When I asked my question about pool hopping after the meeting, I got the same type of non-answer.

[WebmasterDoc]

There is no line item in the DVC operating statement that shows a subsidy for DVC members buying LOS passes.

That's correct Werner. The passes, as you pointed out, were paid for by DVD as a sales incentive. I was told that each day one of those passes was used cost DVD about $35. No dues were used to pay for that, but at this time, unless the Theme Parks want to offer such a program to members themselves, DVC would have to include any such costs n the dues....and that's NOT likely to happen.

[PamOKW]

Member Services' "800" telephone expenses,

Werner, it was my understanding, as you indicate, that we pay for our "free" #800 number calls. This topic came up when non-members mentioned calling the 800# numerous times to make arrangements, requests, even just to find out availability and some members were dismayed to hear we were paying for these calls. At that time, some people here thought that we do not pay for those calls. I was unable to find any actual statement that we cover these costs but that has always been my understanding. Do you have it "in print" anywhere to share with other members?

[dvcmomdeh]

I have to chime in...

Although I don't think I have anything new to add. You have all done a great job in expressing your feelings.

We too are happy members of the Disney Vacation Club and have been from the beginning. Yes, we started with 7 years of free passes what a great business idea. DVC now has all of us to pass the word along about how great it is, of course they won't offer anything like that again.

I have read on these boards that the powers that be do watch the boards. So I am writing to say that I too wish that we could get the Florida Resident Discount on Annual Passes. We spend at least 5-6 weeks a year there and always at Disney.

I agree with one of the messages below that if we quit spending our money (at downtown, the parks or in restaurants) they might look at who was staying and how much they made and find that we are serious about wanting a little in return for the $ we have put in. It's normally not just my family of four. We usually try to bring another couple along with kids the same age as ours. Since they are not spending money on accomodations they end up spending double what we do in food and souveniers. That's saying alot when I budget $1000 and usually spend more.

Same thing with the cruise. We booked on points and brought 5 cash paying people with us. No one was treated any differently but for 400 points I gained a week on a cruise but lost a week a WDW (we were scheduled for two weeks at WDW or the holidays).

We are not unhappy, we will continue to go back. I am in a dilemma this week do I renew my AP or not......

[nickglover]

I knew before I entered this thread there would be many many people supporting Disney, as we seem to be the best Disney cheerleaders around, and it is very difficult to get a majority of people in DVC to be upset with Disney. Having said that, I do think Disney should treat us even better than they do, as we are the most loyal supporters of Disney , in words and in our wallets. I think "special deals" like 10% off a round of putting, or something like that, is almost a joke. Sure, I appreciate any discount I can get, but now and then Disney should "reward" us loyal supporters with some discounts you can sink your teeth into, like two for one entrees at Artists Point, and the like.

[Synonymous]

"now and then Disney should "reward" us loyal supporters with some discounts you can sink your teeth into, like two for one entrees at Artists Point, and the like."

Why? What is your business case for them doing this? Us wanting it isn't enough justification.

[mikek]

Pam- I agree with you and werner- We pay for the 800 number through our dues.

Where else would it come from- DVD? THey already have our money so nope. From CRO? Nope they have their own staff etc.

So the only people left to pay is US.

Anyone who needs comfirmation should WRITE AN EMAIL to MS to get confirmation.

Another great reason to use e-mail when you have non time sensitive needs. It saves us all money! Sure they probably only paylike 4 cents a minute, but add up all the people over the course of the year waiting on hold 40 minutes to inquire which day their trash and towel will be.

[sgtpet]

Let us face facts. The DVC has us where they want us. They know we will be going for the next 40 years or sell our ownership to somebody else who will go for the next 40 years. DVC has sold extremely well in the last 2 years or so. They do not need any siginifcant incentives to lure people into purchasing.

I think we are lucky for what we have available and if you don't like it, then get out, nobody is forcing you to be jerked around.

Disney is a business before anything else. There is no pixie dust in the world, but it sure is a great place to visit.

[PKS44]

Reading sgtpet's post and these posts about how DVC should "reward" us and how they "should" give us perks regardless of the business implications reminds me of the DVC jingle:

"If you believe in magic, you belong!"

It's a slogan. It is not reality. If you believe Disney can magically make your visits cheaper and not make less money, you belong somewhere, but I don't think it's in DVC.

[Muushka]

I am at the point where I am done complaining about what Disney gives or does not give DVC members (although I do have some thoughts to share). When this year's annual pass expires (now), we refuse to pay $369 or whatever it will be to purchase another. They have gone beyond the reasonable price for this pass (in my opinion). We will buy the USF/IOA annual pass for $99. And please do not tell me that the parks do not compare. We have been to them all, and happen to enjoy IOA very much. The coasters are much better (in my opinion). That being said, on a 7-day vacation, maybe 1 or 2 days will be spent in WDW (using park hoppers).

In the future, I will not make PS for WDW dining, and will pay cash. I do not want Disney to be able to track my spending habits at their parks. I will do very little eating there anyway. I will spend money at USF/IOA. They have reasonable park prices, and treat their annual pass holders well.

I have been told by other DVC'ers that comments such as this are useless, and Disney does not care. Some day, Disney will wake up and realize that they do, in fact, need to start paying attention to DVC members. In the meantime, I will shop elsewhere. It is called choice.
:D

[CaptainMidnight]

[QUOTE]If you believe Disney can magically make your visits cheaper and not make less money, you belong somewhere, but I don't think it's in DVC.[QUOTE]

Got a good chuckle out of this one, nicely done.

Should we get better discounts, absolutely! Is it poor business not to do so, yes. Does this mean we we are treated unfaily..... that probably goes a little too far.....

But, of course we should get a better discount..... Those who don't think so are welcome to pay full price instead when it is offerred. Your probably also a person who didn't believe in the tax cut, so has sent thier refund money back to the government. I admire that kind of conviction.....

[KNWVIKING]

...where can you get US/IOA passes for $99.00.The web site lists them at $164.95. While I don't agree with your park comparison I do like your comment about spending cash while in WDW to basically hide your identity from them. If WDW saw the DVC resorts packed but didn't see their room keys and credit cards being swipped for every purchase,then maybe they'd start trying to woo us back into the parks.

[Johnnie Fedora]

When this year's annual pass expires (now), we refuse to pay $369 or whatever it will be to purchase another. They have gone beyond the reasonable price for this pass (in my opinion). We will buy the USF/IOA annual pass for $99.

First time using the quote, I hope it works.


Muushka,

Two words.....NAIL & HEAD. As I have said in my earlier post I will be giving our family a 100% discount on our WDW annual passes, as we will not be purchasing them this year. I would love to give Disney more of my business, but not at those prices (at least not every year). I would also encourage other people to do the same, and let Disney know your doing it.

Thanks for the USF tip, with a $99 annual pass price, I will have enough money to buy a big bunch of USF/IOA balloons to tie on my standing balcony at BCV. I didn't realize that the admission prices were that different. :eek:

I like the mouse as much as many of you, (in fact, just got the kids ready for bed in their Woody and Jessie PJ's and read Snow White)...BUT... nothing wrong with exploring other options while using your "real estate interest" as a home base.

Explore more options...Johnnie

[A1A1]

excellent posts! Boy am I flaming mad now. I too will look into IOA and stop using key card/charge card. It's about time to go out and explore the other things Florida has to offer. Has anyone been to Cypress Gardens lately? DD and I went there last May and had a blast! It only took about forty minutes to get there, and we even considered going two days in a row.

It will be on our itinerary each trip now, and that means one less day in the WDW parks.......

[stlrod]

I ususally post on too many subjects and just say whatever I feel. When I saw the original post, I veered away deciding to take a look in a few days. Wow, was it interesting to come back. Just about everything I thought of as I read through the posts had been said by somebody (from discounts for all are needed to I own at HH or VB and don't want to pay for the discounts and many other thoughts.) What I also found interesting was how this thread is a perfect example of the love-hate realtionship between Disney fans and the mouse that was described in a Washington Post last week. If anyone wants to read the article, here's the link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57712-2001Dec4.html
In the past few months, I have been highly critical of Disney management for mismanaging its marketing efforts in light of an economic turndown. However, after reading the article, I've decided tobe more tempered in my comments. The author compares anti-Disneyites with ultra right-wing religious zealouts who have potested everything from the images on the cover of The Little Mermaid to Gay Days at WDW. While I don't mind being accused of being anti-Disney, I'm certainly not going to place myself in the same category as right-wing conservatists. Just so I don't offend though, the article also points out that there are left-wingers who criticize Disney as well (women's groups concerned over the increasing breast sizes of Disney heroines.) Maybe I'll just try to stay in the middle.
For anyone interested, there is a website devoted to hating all things Disney. Here' s the link:http://www.sodh.org

[raidermatt]

Muushka, Johnnie, A1A1 - If you get better value by going to Universal, by all means do so. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If there are enough members who feel the same as you, Disney will respond. If not, and their attendance, DVC purchases, etc continue to grow (recession/terrorism aside), they will not respond.

You are free to do as you wish. But many of us clearly place a higher value on what Disney offers and therefore are going to make a different decision. Neither of us are wrong. The only flaw in your arguements comes when you say Disney "should" provide discounts, or it's bad business not to. You may want them to, and certainly I would be happy if the did as well, but if they are going to make less money by doing it, they are doing the right thing by NOT discounting more than they already do.

After all, if you claim to know that automatically provding discounts is the "right" thing to do, you must also know what the right amount is. If they gave 5%, many would say that's not enough. What about 10, 20 or 90%? If 10% is good business, is 50% great business?

[Johnnie Fedora]

After all, if you claim to know that automatically provding discounts is the "right" thing to do, you must also know what the right amount is. If they gave 5%, many would say that's not enough. What about 10, 20 or 90%? If 10% is good business, is 50% great business?

I would humbley suggest the FL AP rate.

[dmadman43]

Disney will wake up and realize that they do, in fact, need to start paying attention to DVC members

Or else......what? What will happen? DVC members stop going? That makes no sense, they have your money. They will just rent the rooms out to paying customers (and offer them discounts to encourage them to come back! :smooth: ). That's a sweet deal for them! Or we sell our contracts? Sure, that'll show 'em. Someone will buy it or Disney will buy it back from us and sell it to someone else....and round and round it goes. In the end, they still get the money. And, as a shareholder, thank you very much. :smooth: Quick show of hands from anyone willing to opt out of DVC over the lack of a park pass discount? anyone?...anyone? bueller?

As others have pointed out..they got us. We're theirs. They have little motivation to offer us more than a nice, clean, well maintained, premier property at which to stay. Offering us discounts makes little business sense. It's the occasional visitors from whom they get the benefit of offering a discount. By doing so they hope to convert them into more regular visitors.

[Eeyore2U]

In the long run, I think the price we paid is our discount. I know over the next 40 years we will save a lot of $$$$$ on room expenses. We have been to restaurants that give discounts and can never remember to use them. i think the saying is "Buyer beware!" If they give us what they stated they were giving us. Anything else is gravy.

[sgtpet]

DVC will be concerned about its membership in 2042 when these current deals end. Until then they already have our money and our commitment. Not using the room card is a good idea.

[Synonymous]

Muushka- Good for you! If enough people do the same, then there will be a good business reason for Disney to give us discounts.

I wouldn't count on enough people doing it, though. I know I won't be.

[TnRobin]

I have a question. This is not meant to prove any point or to take either side. Just curious.

Do Marriott Timeshare Members get discounts on Marriott hotel accomadations?????

[A1A1]

I always (usually always) appreciate reading all the different points of view on a topic. I guess my thoughts are that I spend much more time, and therefore, money, at WDW since joining DVC. I believe that Disney makes a good amount of money on DVC or they wouldn't keep adding resorts to the program. They get a big chunk of money (and interest from those who finance) up front. Disney is able to invest that money to make lots and lots more. Anyway, they are a business, that's what they are supposed to do - no complaint there. I would like to see a small discounted rate on park passes for DVC members, who sometimes spend as much time/money in the parks as a Florida resident would.

It would be nice. Do I think they would ever do it - a big "no". Unfortunately, I also believe many people will start to venture out past WDW to the other tourist attractions in Florida without incentive to keep all their money at WDW. If we are in this thing for 40+ years, it's bound to get old at some point. I hope that we current owners would be given a consideration for giving Disney our capital upfront so that they could invest and grow.

There are many wonderful benefits to being a DVC owner, none of which have to do with park passes for most of us. I would jump up and down for a 5% consideration on the park passes. Just something to say "we know you are here with us for the long haul, and we appreciate your loyalty and your business".

The cost of the park passes, and I have purchased an annual pass for the past three years, has gotten cost prohibitive for my family. So we are going to start doing other things in Florida until, if ever, the park admissions become more reasonable, especially in light of reduced park hours, but not reduced park prices.

I would appreciate the opinions of anyone else who will comment on my post. Thank you.

I haven't spent a lot of time doing math on the costs, etc, so if anyone has, please post.

[sgtpet]

Why do you think they created DVC in the first place? They know you will be back 40 plus times and spending money more than likely in their resort areas and parks. If you want to hurt Disney then go to non-Disney places while in Orlando.

The thing is most people buy into DVC becacse they love WDW so they will want to go to the Disney things.


Give Disney credit, DVC was a tremendous move on their part.

They owe us nothing except our points and living by the rules set out in our contracts with them.

[PKS44]

These threads always generate a lot of posts. I have given this a lot of thought (more than I should, probably) and this is how I see it (and of course by extension this is how it is):

There are no discounts for loyalty. Forget it. They do not exist in any business. S0-called loyalty discounts are there to get more business. The Florida resident discount like all discounts is not there because people live in Florida, it is there because WDW is in Florida and there are so many choices for Florida residents, all year long. Disney feels compelled to entice them to WDW. Those people are a 365 days a year market with the freedom to choose that DVC members just have not exercised. Most FL residents don't live on site. DVC members are at the doorstep. Disney has not felt compelled to discount much for DVC members because we have, up to now, come to WDW parks without the enticement. Presumably that is why we bought DVC, to be near the parks.

The question of discounts gets complicated. The only reason Disney will discount is if the bottom line is increased by doing so. Examples people have offered is that they will spend more on food and drink and thus Disney winds up ahead in the end. Or that more people will come more days. Example- you may be willing to buy a four day hopper to use over a 6 days' stay, or you might pay for a 6 day LOS pass. Disney discounts the LOS for DVC members just enough to entice you to spend just a bit more for the LOS to get the added flexibility and entice you to stay on site more, which of course is more money for them both ways. Also, people may be willing to spend $200 on admissions and $400 on food (TOTAL $600), or they may be willing to spend $100 on admission and $600 on food(total $700). Depending on the perceived value, the totals could be higher, lower, or the same by manipulating admission prices. The problem with all of these calculations is determining profit margins. Food and drink are marked up considerably, but admission margins could be as high as 100% once you have a set number of people in the park to pay the expense of running it, every additional ticket sold is pure profit.

Up until recently it was no problem getting people into the parks. This may be changing or may just be in a temporary lull. As a stockholder, I hope Disney has given this at least as much thought as I have. I look at Tokyo Disney parks where they are supposedly making a lot of money. They have a three tiered admission system- Unlimited rides, etc, limited use of the rides, and no rides but you can walk around and shop and eat, etc...They use colored wristbands. I don't doubt there is a market for such a system here. What it would cost to implement such a system and whether such an approach is needed to boost park profits or would boost overall profits?- hey I'm a doctor not an amusement park management expert, what do I know? I am just asking...I see that Disney is starting to look at wristbands to limit the height measurements on kids, maybe this is the beginning of an experiment in wristband use in the parks for other purposes...

Paul

[Johnnie Fedora]

I believe that most us us purchased because we like Disney as a vacation location and like the timeshare unit itself. I also believe that most DVCers did exhaustive money calculations before buying to make sure that their purchase made good fiscal sense. Overall, I believe most DVCers are very mindful vacation cost, and this thread is just a further extension (concerning park pass prices) of that mindset. We want to get the most for our vacation dollars, and at WDW that can include park admission prices.

Yes, they "owe" us nothing except what we purchased, that doesn't mean that we can't hope for some additional perks or style of pass that is more useful for the typical DVCer. I've posted this idea before.

For DVCers that would like a more cost effective pass, what about a new DVC Hopper Pass that lets you stay in the parks by the hour, instead of the whole day. It could work similar to a typical phonecard, you "clock in and clock out" of the parks. This would fit the typical DVCers vacations style much better, and it would encourage people to use the parks frequently just in shorter time periods. Hours would not expire.

Disney wouldn't even have to "discount" it, the idea of which seems to offend some people. It would just be prorated to fit hour by hour usage, and it could also contain the typical flex features like the current hopper. In fact, I would pay more for such a flexible pass.

With this option, DVC members would only be given the perk of a different manner of usage, not a cost break.

Johnnie

[A1A1]

Johnnie,
Very interesting idea about the length of time pass. I would be interested in this type of pass, because there have been many times that I have wanted to go to a park to do one or two things, but didn't because I didn't want to use a whole day's pass to get in there. In addition, those that want to eat at Epcot, for example, but not stay longer than it would take to eat, have also had to use a park admission day to eat there. Chances are pretty good that once you'd get in the park, you'd stay longer than anticipated, and therefore, *spend more money*, which we all have stated is the major motivator for Disney.

[Synonymous]

Johnnie- That's a great idea- from the customer's point of view. It would save us money. Which is exactly what makes it a terrible idea from Disney's point of view- it would save us money. Disney is interested in ways to make us spend MORE money, not in giving us ways to spend less.

Unless a large number of people take up Muushka's idea, nothing is going to happen. We might as well get upset because they don't have Eisner come shine our shoes before we leave for the park every morning. It's futile.

Of course I'd love to pay less, too. But what's the point in being upset about it? It's just economic reality.

[raidermatt]

A1A1- IMHO, you are taking a very sound approach to your decision making process. We all have to evaluate what gives us the best value, and when something becomes cost prohibitive we have to bail out. There's nothing wrong with wanting a discount. I'd love one too. I'm not as skeptical as some, in that I think it very well could happen at some point. I'm just realistic (again, IMHO) about the chances, and the reasons that would make Disney do it.

Johnnie- I think your idea has merit. In fact, I'm sure Disney has considered it in the past. I believe their main reasons for not doing it are:

1- Lost revenue. I'm sure they believe that they would lose more money from customers who would switch from full-day passes, than they would gain from added customers. In order to keep this from happening, they would probably have to charge an hourly rate that would be higher than most customers would be willing to pay.

2- Very difficult to manage. It would be the customer's responsibility to "clock out" when leaving, and I can only guess at the percentage that would forget. Conservatively, I'd say 5%, and 20% wouldn't shock me. Dealing with these customers would be a nightmare. If Disney takes a hard-line, they have a lot of angry customers. If they are lenient, and credit back hours, that's more lost revenue, requiring a further increase in the price.

Just thought of a third reason: Anger over queue lines. We all know long wait times are frustrating, but how much more frustrating would they be if we were paying by the hour? Oh, and here's a fourth. Let's say you have 1 hour left, and you go into the park at Noon. Who is going to ensure you are kicked out at 1:00? Yikes!

[nickglover]

synonymous - I don't usually think in "business cases", but I suppose the main reasons for Disney giving us some decent discounts would be to maintain good relations with some of their best customers, to reward loyalty, and to keep us from selling out.

[Synonymous]

Nick- I would agree with you if I thought there was any real danger of large numbers of people selling out. Of course, the fact that they are SELLING out means others are buying in, so, again, no real reason for offering incentives.

[Muushka]

For the people who wanted to know about the $99 AP at USF/IOA,here is the deal. Until Jan 31, you can purchase an AP at AAA rate (sorry, I really should have stipulated that in my post). It must be activated by some time late Feb 2002 (the 23rd is the concencus). You may then (with active AP) purchase AP (renewal)vouchers for $99 for future use. The renewal passes must be purchased by Jan 31 2002. We are going down in a month, so this is my plan. They also have a buy 2 days, get a 3rd day free deal going on now.
Here is the link with info on both
http://64.225.125.24/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=132162 (http://)

From what I understand, USF/IOA has more deals on admission prices. I try to keep up with that board also.

.Raidermatt, I don't believe Disney should offer us discounts. It is simply the fact that they do not, so I will therefore not purchase their product. It is a choice that I have made. Disney will some day realize that they have distanced themselves from some DVC members, who have more disposable income than the average bear.

Dadman43- or else I will not spend as much money in their parks that I would have had they made the entrance fees more reasonable. No threats, just action on my part. Like I said, I am no longer angry, I am just changing my "Disney spending habits". In the meantime, I will enjoy our DVC room, they will not have to rent it out.

thedscoop: Huh?? Why are you getting so upset? All I am saying is that I will shop elsewhere. What is wrong with that? Just because I purchased a DVC timeshare, does that mean that I must enter their parks and spend money there? And by the way, I think Disney should lower park admissions for everyone, not just us.

There are some excellent ideas on this post on what Disney could do to entice people such as myself back into the parks. I really hope they read these things.

[Dean]

I get the FL discounts so this doesn't affect my costs at all and think it is unreasonable that Disney not extend those discounts to DVC members. Of course they do not have to but they should. I too think it is a business mistake not to give further enticements to members as I see the overall satisfaction level of members slipping or so it seems to me.

Marriott gives members an across the board 25% discount for rentals plus negotiated discounts at local bussiness at many of their resorts.

[DeeP]

Just because I purchased a DVC timeshare, does that mean that I must enter their parks and spend money there?

But why would you want to stay at a DVC resort and then have to drive 1/2 hour each way, each day to get to Universal/IOA? If you feel this way, would it not make more sense to sell your DVC membership, make a profit and buy a timeshare that is much cheaper and much closer to Universal/IOA?? I know, I personally drive enough at home during my normal life, when I am on vacation the last thing I want to do is drive an hour each day in traffic to go to Universal/IOA or anywhere else! But then, I bought DVC because I want to be at WDW and I personally find our APs give us a great value for our money compared to other theme parks. We do like IOA but it just can't even begin to compare to Disney, in our opinion. IOA to us, is like our local Six Flags Great Adventure park, great coasters, ok shows, adequate rides, less than adequate employees working there, overall a nice place to go for one or two days a year, but to spend a whole vacation there---I don't think so, and to invest our money into buying a timeshare there as we did with DVC---never in a million years!!!!!! But like the saying goes..."that's why they make chocolate and vanilla", whatever works for you is what you should do.

[Muushka]

We didn't even go into WDW parks every day last week while we were there and we had APs! No, we would visit 1 or 2 times a visit to USF/IOA. While at Disney, we enjoy walking around, visiting the resorts, riding the boats etc. We really enjoy relaxing on our vacations, not running around in the parks. That is why it is so aggravating with the rise in AP prices and renewal policy. The way we use them, it is simply not worth it.

[raidermatt]

Disney has never been a big discounter. Sure, there's the occasional deal, such as the military deal right now, and the early DVC discounts. But they have NEVER used discounts on any kind of large scale to built loyalty. Yet they have the most loyal following of any large entertainment company in the world.

Do we really think that 20 years ago, frequent visitors didn't wish they could get more discounts? Of course they did. And there were always some who decided to go to a less expensive product. Yet Disney continued to gain the loyalty of far more people than it lost.

Now, DVC continues to sell like hotcakes, even in tough economic times. Until the recession hit, record crowds were attending Disney parks. Apparently, for every customer angry over the price, several more decided to start paying it.

Given all of this, how in the world can we say Disney "should" increase their discounting to increase loyalty? Lowering prices, even for frequent customers, does not create loyalty. If it did, Disney would never have been able to build the loyal following it has.

Disney does not build loyaty through discounts. They build it by offering a product that keeps people coming back, even if it costs more. That has always been their strategy, and it has worked. Why in the world would they want to change it? If the strategy begins to fail, rest assured they will start making changes. But again, loyalty built through price discounts lasts as long as the discounts do.

[DeeP]

But if you are only using the Universal/IOA pass to visit 1-2 time per trip that equals out to more than what you would pay to go into a WDW park (of which you would have a choice of 4) with an AP! If you are there for 7 days per visit with an AP and just wanted to walk around Epcot or go for dinner, not run around the parks, you could do it. If you are paying $99.00 per year for a IOA pass (which is a special right now, let's remember) and go to IOA 2 times that comes out to $49.50 (per day for 2??--I am not sure of how many parks this includes 1 or 2) but if you had an AP and only used it once a day for 7 days at your choice of 4 parks; to walk around, eat a meal, go for a show, take a boat ride, etc., it only comes out to $52.71 per day but you have a choice of at least 2 more parks for an additional amount of only $3.21 per day and all these parks are within your fingertips! We do not do park commando either, we have been there and will be there too often to do this, but when you want to go to a park to see a parade, eat a snack, or just go to enjoy the atmosphere for an hour or so, I still say for a difference of $3.21 per day for a 7 day daily visit vs a 2 day visit at IOA with no driving, gas prices. parking fees. tolls, etc., is a pretty good deal. We go to WDW for trips of 8-10 days per trip approx 4 times per year, so many times we will only go to a park for an hour or so to have lunch, see a show or whatever and to us it is well worth having the ability to go wherever we want to go. We enjoy seeing the resorts etc but it so nice to just hop over to a park to see Illuminations, eat a meal whatever you want to do! This was figured out using the IOA AP for 2 days(the # of days you stated you do to IOA) and the WDW AP for 7 days(the # of days you stay at WDW), if you took more trips to FL per year and continued to stay at WDW for 7 days and used the AP for 7 days and continued to visit IOA for 2 days per trip; the value of the WDW AP would be even more.
I am by no means trying to tell you what to do, it is your vacation, and it's your DVC membership that is already pre-paid., and I respect your choices. But the figures do come out pretty good for WDW when you really break it down for what you can get on site, where you are at in a DVC resort, for a weeks worth of park use vs driving to IOA for 2 days of park use per trip.

[DebbieB]

Disney has never been a big discounter.

So true. CRO doesn't even have an 800# to make reservations, you have to pay for a toll call to make a reservation. You can pay to join Disney Club to get an 800# to use. Alot of parks offer senior citizen rates, Disney doesn't. I think they figure most people will come anyway.

[Muushka]

:) Hi DeeP.

Thanks for the thought you put into your post. Not sure if I said this, but we typically visit 3 times per 365 days. With an USF/IOA AP (even at the $169 regular price) we will visit probably 6 times in that time frame (2 per visit). We have gone there 3 times in the past year even when we had a WDW AP (and no USF AP). With the USF AP, we will save the $7 parking and receive (from what I understand) 20% discount on food and souviners. That comes out to $28 and change per visit (at the higher $169 rate) and the additional savings on parking and food etc. We go there anyway (love them coasters), so for us it is a no brainer.

As far as going into WDW parks, we do not have children. It is just the 2 of us. The parks are great, but there is plenty of other things to do. Like I said, we will still go in, but we will purchase the 7 day hopper plus and take it easy. It will come out to about $48 per day (if I remember correctly) and we will have the added bonus of the water parks for a few days.

Honestly, I never complained about Disney before they became so greedy. When they changed their AP policy (on renewals) and upped the price to $369, well straw + camel's back.