Just back, one aggravation

[Regina]

We just had a wonderful stay at WDW. We did three nights at VWL (outstanding), followed by three nights at OKW, (beautiful, as always.)

My DH and I went to MGM on Sunday. I decided to return to OKW for a quick rest before MVMCP that night. While waiting for the bus, a family approached me and the wife asked if they could get to Downtown Disney from OKW. I said that they'd need to take another bus from there.

When the OKW bus arrived, I got on and the husband asked the bus driver about the ferry from OKW to Downtown. He told them that he didn't know the schedule, but that it was running. They piled into the bus.

In addition to this family, there was just myself and a lovely couple that we met previously on the bus. The three of us were steaming mad that this family was, in all likelihood, using our services to avoid paying for parking at the parks.:mad: :mad: :mad:

I'd love to see them make the ferry available to only OKW guests to stop this type of abuse.

[MaryAnnDVC]

Note: This post is in response to a post by nydizfan, which apparently has now been deleted. Wasn't sure if I should now delete MY post, but have chosen to leave it as is.

nydizfan, it seems to me that what dvcreg encountered was just more symbolic of the bigger problem in WDW and DVC in particular of people trying to get around the system at the expense of people who don't.

I find it a little frustrating that since 9/11, it seems that anyone with a negative opinion about anyone or anything is accused of not having their priorities straight, or they get the "with everything going on in the world" line. Everyone is well aware of what is going on in the world, and yes, I've gotten a different perspective about lots of things in life, but that hasn't turned my mind off to everything else. We just got back from our first DVC trip 3 days ago, and as disappointed as we were with some of the changes and cutbacks, we understand that Disney had to make them.

However, sneaky Disney guests taking advantage of the system...as they have in the past, and continue to do as we all try "to get back to normal"...just might elicit negative feelings in someone...as it has in the past and therefore, does now...even as we try "to get back to normal".

[KNWVIKING]

The parasites of this world will always be parasites,regardless of world events.And they are self perpetuating breed as they are teaching their children that it's ok to cheat. My DW and I attended MVMCP on the 29th. We arrived 30 minutes early,were allowed to enter but with wrist bands to identify us from guests that were still in the park and supposed to be leaving as the park closed at 6:00 pm, MVMCP started at 7:00. We were very irratated,( to put it mildly for the sake of the board censor's) to hear parents tell there kids to "pull their sleeves down" and "quick,go into the bathroom stalls" as they saw CM's. After 7:00 they stopped issue'ing wrist bands on the premise that only party ticket holders would be in the park- boy were they wrong. We all get angry and frustrated at this abuse, but until we're all willing to get in people's faces and point them out to CM's or security and make a scene if neccasary then it will continue. But, and I'm guilty of this, we tend to vent on the boards rather then make that kind of stand.

[dianeschlicht]

The reason we get upset at these infractions is because it comes out of our "dues" pocket when someone abuses the system, it hurts the legitimate guests.

[pentex]

It's particulary annoying because the ferry doesn't hold too many people; I think it's 12. I know a couple of times we've had to wait for the next ferry because one was full, and I'd be annoyed if the one that left was holding non-DVC guests hitching a ride.

[Regina]

I guess that I missed the excitement.;) ;)

It stinks that people do this, it doubly stinks that we pay for that transportation out of our dues.

Viking, I couldn't agree more. I certainly didn't want to start anything with this family, much as you weren't willing to point out the MVMCP abuse that you witnessed.

At least we can vent here.:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[WebmasterDoc]

I have seen the OKW boat drivers ask guests if they are staying at OKW (at the DD dock). If there were OKW guests waiting in line, the driver would allow the guests ahead of the others. If there was room, the non-guests were allowed.

Once we reached OKW, the non-guests tried to stay on the boat and ride back to DD, but the driver made them get off and wait in line for another boat.

I have overheard people on the bus from OKW to parks, bragging about just parking at OKW, going to the parks and then taking a swim before returning home at the end of the day. I'm sure this happens at other resorts also- I know it happens a lot at S&D.
There is a culture, often among retirement age FL residents, who share these little "tips" to better enjoy WDW.

[lodgelady]

Taking a joy ride on that boat from DD to OKW with my husband was how we first became interested in buying DVC! We would not have seen how charming it was otherwise...
so not all visitors are parasites-
although I agree that it is clear that some people are just out to scam the "system" :rolleyes:

[dianeschlicht]

Could non-OKW people parking at OKW and taking the bus be the reason it is hard to park at some of the units close to Conk Flats?

[Figaro30]

Once when we took the boat to DD the CM asked to see our I.D. I thought this was because they wanted to make sure that only OKW people were using it because there is that 12 people limit on the boats.

[GCM13]

Just looking at this from a different point of view. It may be possible that that family or other people taking the OKW boat were unaware that it is only for OKW guests. I, for one, did not know that until I started reading these boards.

[SimplyMagical]

When my DW and I took the tour at VWL, we too took the boat to the Magic Kingdom and back. It was a great way to experience what a stay in the VWL would be like. We were not scamming to avoid parking fees, we have an AP. We later became members and are now awaiting our first trip home in Feb.

[Regina]

It was clear to us that this family was doing this strictly because they had their car parked at Downtown Disney.

The boat that makes the circuit to the WL from the MK is paid for by Disney and it's fairly large. The boat that goes to Downtown from OKW is small, and it's paid for by our dues.

Disney has cracked down on parking abuse. If you bring a car, you're issued a parking permit and they are checking the dates to see if it's current. If you're there for a meal, you get a short term parking pass. And, let's not forget, you have to show a photo ID to enter via a private vehicle.

It was disheartening to see that people are still finding ways to get around this, and that we're paying for it.

I hope that they asked to see their resort ID.

[WebmasterDoc]

In addition to Regina's comments. The buses, monorails and boats to/from the parks and resorts are part of the Disney Transportation system. Anyone with a valid park pass or staying onsite is eligible to use the Disney transport system.

The OKW/DD boat is part of the OKW recreation dept (not WDW Transport) and is for resort guests only. Being Disney, other guests are rarely turned away, but the OKW drivers are usually good about trying to allow OKW guests to use the boat- before letting other riders to do so.

The PO/DL boat was a little different, as it was paid for by the DD merchant's association (it is now discontinued- even though PO is still operating).

[gmboy95]

I think it is an issue of common courtesie....if a person tries to sneek into an event that others have paid money to be at, that is disrespectful.

Now I will not say that i have not bent the rules a time or two at WDW....However i can honestly say it was not at the expense of any other guest. I think it is all of our responsibilties to be rspectful to one another.

[lodgelady]

When we took the boat from DD to OKW there was no sign saying that it was only for members of OKW! How would anyone but members of OKW know this???? We took a round trip on that boat thinking we were entitled to use all Disney transportation because we had valid passes. I would not have gone if I knew I wasn't supposed to use the OKW boat. There are some who choose to be dishonest, but REALLY the issue is far from clear....

[Figaro30]

Lodgelady...I have to agree. Nowhere is it posted that the boat is strictly for OKW members. They need to make this more clear. This would clarify the issue for a lot of people.

[DaveH]

We spent the first and last night of our stay last week at OKW. We had a rented car and because I changed my ressies less than a week before we left I did not have a ressie to show the guard. I ened up showing him my driver's lincense and my DVC card at both the OKW and VWL. The VWL had my parking pass waiting for me. They must either had been joyriding to check out the resort. We are all guilty of this or may have been trying to get by the parking fees. I don't know. We enjoyed our first stay home a great deal. We really liked the OKW and we were not sure about it. We will have no problem staying there again.

[fl]

dvcreg:
Just got back from OKW and for the first time ever (perhaps due to the recent tragedies) when arriving at the OKW security booth I was for my intentions to enter OKW, my last name was checked in some form of list (reservations list) and asked for photo ID. This system will help steer away the casual freeloaner who used to say "I have a reservation" or "We're going to have lunch at" people who are known to leave the car on the premises and then take the buses elsewhere. It is not perfect, but it is a step in the right direction. If only the bus or boat driver could ask for a valid Id at every stop including those at the Downtown Disney and the Parks, things will be a little tougher for the freeloaners but perhaps somehow inconvinient for all of us.

[fl]

KNWVIKING
I agree with you. That is why my family and I stopped patronizing Disney for the Very Merry Xmas Special Event. In my opinion, to compound the problem is the reduced amount of time that Disney allow themselves to remove guests from the MK. I was lucky enough to go to MGM for December the 5th, for Walt Disney Bday Celebrations, let me tell you that the park was promptly closed to the public at 4pm and you could see that they meant it. All rides shutdown, all concession stands closed, and security people by the dozen moving people toward the exits. You could see CMs checking restrooms, alleys, restaurants, etc. MGM has planned a media party by 6pm and they wanted to have the park free of paying guest. My opinion is that they can do the same at MK for the DVMC event.

[WebmasterDoc]

Nowhere is it posted that the boat is strictly for OKW members.

Nor does it need to be . As long as no OKW guests are forced to wait while others ride, there is really no problem. The boats run every 20 minutes and are often empty- so a few non-guests doesn't really hurt anything. (Yes, I know that some park at DD and use OKW to ride to parks and that's another issue.)

As I mentioned earlier, OKW Cm's do check to make sure their guests are riding ahead of others. I don't know if they are consistent in doing this, but it is done.

[one_cat]

There is a line and I think it's pretty clear to everyone where it is. If a person has a valid park pass - takes a bus to OKW to eat at Olivias then takes the boat to Downtown Disney I don't think there is any problem. It's the people who are taking advantage of the lax oversight by Disney who cause problems. Obviously a lot of people park at Downtown Disney then take the bus to the parks to not pay the parking fees at the parks. They may even eat breakfast or Dinner at Downtown Disney and think that makes it ok. The one year we stayed off-site we payed for parking all week. We just figured that's the rules so we abide by them. It's a shame that so many people in our society challenge themselves to break rules to save a few bucks. There's not much difference between not paying for parking or getting into MVMCP for free and actually stealing merchandise from a dept store.

[PamOKW]

I think OKW got its reputation as a free parking lot when they were selling DVC. Of course, they couldn't restrict people when they wanted to them to come and take the DVC tour. Now, they can and should be a little stricter about who is coming into the resort and why. Even more than a regular WDW hotel, the condo atmosphere lends itself to mischief or worse by people to looking to cause trouble. Even beyond cracking down on freeloaders they need to know who is coming in and out.

[sueg]

I always wonder what message is being sent to children who are part of planned trickery. Do the parents simply say: "We will park here?" or are the kids primed w/ lies so that if anybody asks, they know the right answer to give. Do they parents brag that they are beating the overpriced parking system and any lying is a necessary part of that? We always emphasize the importance of DSs telling the truth, no matter what. As part of this DH & I have become very conscious of little white lies that adults use all the time. We try to monitor ourselves and as DSs get older, they are very aware of monitoring us too.LOL;)

[DancingBear]

As I understand this scenario, this family apparently parked at Downtown Disney and used the combination DD/OKW ferry and OKW/MGM bus service to avoid paying the $6 to park at MGM.

My first comment is that seems like a lot of trouble to save that amount of money.

But also, why do we assume that these people were knowingly engaging in unethical behavior (and teaching this to their kids). If there are no signs posted regarding the use of the OKW ferry being restricted, and no signs or ID checking on the busses, then how would they know that their plan for saving the $6 is "cheating?"

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, but there are plenty of money-saving tips exchanged on the DIS boards every day that don't necessarily have ethical overtones (is it ethical to fill up your cooler from the resort ice machine?) Was any other guest inconvenienced by this "park at DD to avoid the parking fee" strategy?

Was it unethical to park at the GF and ride the monorail over to MK for the day before they posted the policies and put up the guardhouse?

On the other hand, the folks that were described at MVMCP obviously were cheating, and teaching their children to cheat.

As with the parking situation at the resorts, WDW will respond to this situation when it inconveniences the other patrons and enough people complain about it--until then, it is just not cost-effective to enforce every rule to the max. If you are peeved about something, please let WDW know. In particular, let them know about the MVMCP cheats, because I'd like this problem fixed before I return next December!!