Guests behaving badly

[bigdisneydaddy]

Is it just me or does anyone else notice a decline in social graces ?

During our Christmas trip I noticed several people being very rude to CM's for no reason at all. If you want to be miserable then why not stay home ?

One man in the Meadows was trying to fill his mug (an old one from another resort) with free coffee, the polite CM at the register had apparently let it slide the day before but told the man that the only free refills were for the FW mugs. He replied that the fact that she was going to charge him $1.25 today instead of allowing him to steal coffee was "not very Disney"
I was thinking in my head that stealing isnt very Disney either.

The new procedure for line jumping is the same as before, send one advance operative to the front of the line and then have everyone alse in your party wait a while, then have the rest of your party rudely push their way to the front. If met by an angry look just explain "my family is up there"

Fires are not allowed in the campsite grills only if you follow rules. If you dont follow rules go ahead and do it anyways, nobody will actually make you put it out. Go ahead and steal 2 rolls of paper towels from the comfort station to get it started, I am sure that why Disney has extras in those cupboards.

Its okay to let kids under 16 drive the golf carts, never mind that you signed that paper saying you wouldnt, after all that rule couldnt possibly apply to you exceptional child.

Have as many guest as you want at your campsite, have them park their cars all over the place since parking is at such a premium anyways. The front desk will go ahead and let your guests drive their own cars in so as not to inconvenience them by parking in the Outpost lot and using the WDW busses.




Scott

[ftwildernessguy]

I agree, Scott. When confronted, the standard reply seems to be "everyone else is doing it, so it must be okay." I thought that answer was left behind in high school.

[rbork]

Don't remind me! I am trying so hard to raise our disney son's to behave in a polite and respectful way. I kill's me to see all the abuses of quidelines/rules these days. Unfortuneately, it's not just Disney.

[Tickla]

I don't understand some people:sad2: It is horrible the way people can be-they do all this stuff,the kids see it, think it's funny, then they turn around and act the same way-then people wonder why the kids these days are so rude and out of control? I really am scared of what our country will be like when today's kids are running it:scared1:

[twinklebug]

It's not just in Disney - it's gotten worse everywhere. What can be done to bring back the social graces that should be the norm? :confused3

What I don't understand is how the Japanese have managed to instill in their people a sense of respect that is just lacking in America. I showed my kids Japanese ice sculpture pictures that have been passed around the web this year and my 9yo's comment was "there are no fences to keep people from touching them" My reply was "Uh huh, must be a nice place to live"

[Tricializ]

I had noticed that it was pretty prevalent but less so at FW. The thing that bothers me the most about Disney is the over-indulged children you see there. I realize that all the kids who get to go to Disney are indulged in some way (heck mine are. LOL) But, you see the families who apparently never say no to their kids. They are rude, "me first" types who think that rules are just for everyone else. It's sad to see but I guess that's how it is now.
sigh

[Jennasmomma]

One of our last days on vacation was the worst! We had 2 ECVs. My mom and I were able to get off of them so my sister, dad, bil..would free wheel them up the ramp. The bus driver lowered the ramp and my sister started up the ramp. As she was doing so a group of like 4 adults and a bunch of kids under the age of 5 were suppose to wait to board the bus. The kids ran up the bus steps and darted for the back of the bus. My sister almost ran into a few of the kids with the ECV.

My mom and sister made comments to the adults. They just looked at her blankly and said how were we suppose to know? one person actually said to another in their party. Is she actually yelling at us?

Uh duh! What morons.

[DisCamper]

We are just back from my first New Years in FW. It seem to me that the people camping on this trip where all rude. I tried to talk to some of my fellow camper a lot of them acted like they didn’t have the time.:confused3

[Donna]

With the exception of the parade-taping day crowd on 12-2 (which was horrendous) , i have to say i thought guests this past trip were exceptionally well-mannered. I thought maybe it was the holiday spirit or something. i witnessed guests holding the door for other guests, letting parties stay together, men giving up seats on the bus to women and/or children. honestly, i was shocked because you hardly ever see that at disney but everywhere i went, i seem to run into this and it made me feel good and i wanted to be sure i did the same for others. I offered to take group pictures so families could be in the same picture, let kids stand in front of me at the parades, stuff like that. I thought if you spread it, surely it will catch on.
I have to say, at other theme/amusement parks, it is so much worse. The worst that you witness at disney is the best you will see somewhere else. At parks like Cedar Point or a Six Flags, it's like a prison let out or something! :eek:

[bigdisneydaddy]

With the exception of the parade-taping day crowd on 12-2 (which was horrendous) , i have to say i thought guests this past trip were exceptionally well-mannered. I thought maybe it was the holiday spirit or something. i witnessed guests holding the door for other guests, letting parties stay together, men giving up seats on the bus to women and/or children. honestly, i was shocked because you hardly ever see that at disney but everywhere i went, i seem to run into this and it made me feel good and i wanted to be sure i did the same for others. I offered to take group pictures so families could be in the same picture, let kids stand in front of me at the parades, stuff like that. I thought if you spread it, surely it will catch on.
I have to say, at other theme/amusement parks, it is so much worse. The worst that you witness at disney is the best you will see somewhere else. At parks like Cedar Point or a Six Flags, it's like a prison let out or something! :eek:

I agree on Cedar point, we didnt even go this year.

[Tricializ]

"men giving up seats on the bus to women and/or children"

Oh the bus issue. Don't even get me started. Here are my pet peeves regarding riding a crowded bus in no particular order:

Families who insist on a seat for their 2 year old when the bus is packed. Can't they put the child on their lap so someone else can sit down?

Men and/or older children who SHOULD get up for pregnant/older/mom w/little ones etc. people. I looked at my son once when he had offered his seat (without me saying anything and he was only about 14 at the time) and said that if I ever had to say something to him, he was in trouble. LOL He looked at me and said, "mom you NEVER will. I know better". I was at Disney at 7mo pregnant with a 2 year old balancing a stroller and noone ever offered me a seat. It's not that I would have even taken it, but geesh.

People who won't move back to open seats and clog up the aisle forever.

People who don't hold on when the bus is moving and fall into you. Duh.

I think that's it...Oh yeah. One more. People who don't say "thanks" to the bus driver for the ride.

Tricia

[ftwildernessguy]

I agree on Cedar point, we didnt even go this year.

We live near Dorney Park - owned by the same parent company - and we won't go there any more for the same reason. Not really sure what demographic this company is aiming at, but it can't be very good for business.

[DisCamper]

We saw many of people in golf cart cut off the horses in the hay New Years eve. That could get alot of people hurt.

[bigdisneydaddy]

"men giving up seats on the bus to women and/or children"

Oh the bus issue. Don't even get me started. Here are my pet peeves regarding riding a crowded bus in no particular order:

Families who insist on a seat for their 2 year old when the bus is packed. Can't they put the child on their lap so someone else can sit down?

Men and/or older children who SHOULD get up for pregnant/older/mom w/little ones etc. people. I looked at my son once when he had offered his seat (without me saying anything and he was only about 14 at the time) and said that if I ever had to say something to him, he was in trouble. LOL He looked at me and said, "mom you NEVER will. I know better". I was at Disney at 7mo pregnant with a 2 year old balancing a stroller and noone ever offered me a seat. It's not that I would have even taken it, but geesh.

People who won't move back to open seats and clog up the aisle forever.

People who don't hold on when the bus is moving and fall into you. Duh.

I think that's it...Oh yeah. One more. People who don't say "thanks" to the bus driver for the ride.

Tricia


I have given up my seat many times on a WDW bus for those reasons. I simply will not sit while older folks and Women with small children stand. Sometimes others will look at you like "why did you give up your seat"
My Mother taught me better than that, my 2 teenage sons have done it also.
We always make it a point to say Thanks to CM's whatever the situation, they all appreciate it.

You catch more flies with Honey than you do with Vinegar.

I am a firm believer in Karma catching up with people :thumbsup2

[Tricializ]

I am a firm believer in Karma catching up with people :thumbsup2

One can only hope. ;)

[ZacinIndy]

Oh don't even get me started on the dippity do-duhs that plop down in the middle of the row! I always give them a scary look that only a tall hulking giant can give, and I fell better as I climb over them. Do I look like I can squirm past people without bonking them with my size 15 shoes? Tsk tsk tsk.

[Whosemom]

Cedar Point? We must go at different times of the year. We've never had a problem there. They seem to have a better hold on the line jumping than Disney.

My pet rude peeve is people who smoke in line, and since thet aren't allowed, hold te ciggy down at their side - eye level to my kids. Doi. Then I can get ugly.

[becky1960]

Let me start this off by saying we were at FW 12/18 thru 12/28 and as always we enjoyed FW. We expirenced great CM"s and met may nice guests.
Now, let me tell you a different story, I had to bring my son in a wheelchair because of an past and impending surgery. It was quite an expirence, people seem to not care about the handicapped as much as they should. I found it quite difficult to hold onto a wheelchair while standing on a bus. My son could walk onto a bus, but could not do heavy walking because of his open wound.

We went to Magic Kingdom on Christmas day for dinner, and as we entered the train station we were stopped by the large crowd, the parade was going on. We decided to wait untill it was over but when it ended it started to rain and the crowd tried to exit as the other crowd tried to enter and we were jammed up. People started to panic and started pushing against each other. I couldnt move either way with a Wheelcair. A lady had her baby next to me in a stroller and people actually started stepping on the baby. The lady yelled " You people are stepping on my baby" . I looked down and I saw another person step on the baby. Never again on Christmas Day for me. A FW Castmember on 12/27 told us that AK an MK were both closed early due to attendance.

I have worked in Law Enforcement for many years and have taken courses on Crowd control and Riot control, this crowd was almost to that point. A railroad engineer from Disney came down and helped control the crowd as they were'nt going to move. I must say I have noticed a decline in politeness in people, we can only hope it changes.

[ftwildernessguy]

One shocking thing we noticed last visit was that this rudeness is becoming international, affecting groups not previously thought of as rude. I have always commented to my wife how visitors from the UK have in general been extremely polite and patient. Not this visit. Many UK visitors are now acting like americans- pushing, shoving, line jumping. So sad.:sad2:

[Tricializ]

We went to Magic Kingdom on Christmas day for dinner, and as we entered the train station we were stopped by the large crowd, the parade was going on. We decided to wait untill it was over but when it ended it started to rain and the crowd tried to exit as the other crowd tried to enter and we were jammed up. People started to panic and started pushing against each other. I couldnt move either way with a Wheelcair. A lady had her baby next to me in a stroller and people actually started stepping on the baby. The lady yelled " You people are stepping on my baby" . I looked down and I saw another person step on the baby. Never again on Christmas Day for me. A FW Castmember on 12/27 told us that AK an MK were both closed early due to attendance.


I have been involved in one of those post parade traffic jams when my little ones were 1 and 3. It was truly frightening and if it hadn't been for my overly protective older kids who were 17 and 13 at the time)the baby would have been trampled. People push and shove when there is nowhere to go. I don't know what the big hurry is anyway. The other rude things I've encountered is the rude line jumpers at the end of the night boarding the launches back to the resorts.

[Donna]

When these pushy people do this, they don't realize they're missing one of the truly magical times in the parks, for example-magic kingdom - at closing time. Even if you just sit down and relax and people watch for 30 minutes or so, you get to see the castle change colors and experience "the kiss goodnight" closing of the park and walk down an empty main street and usually have an empty bus or monorail. It's something not to be missed!

[lovethecastle]

I've never heard of the 'kiss goodnight'. What is that?

[proudmomof4]

My family was at FW 12/17-12/23 and for the most part did not have any problems with rudeness except:

Guests who feel they don't have to wait in line for the bus, when the back doors open for the debarking guests they just "jump" the line and get on the bus through the back door. This one time the bus driver had to load a wheelchair and he politely asked the people who were boarding at the back door to please get out, well this group had a little girl of about 7 years old and the parents kept telling her to stay on the bus while the bus driver was saying please get off the bus. What kind of example does this give that little girl about obeying rules or adults? Oh and when the driver had finished loading the wheelchair the people still boarded through the back door.

The other instance was at the campfire, there was a boy of about 10 or 11 who was lighting sticks on fire and waving them around and then flicking sparks and ashes all around, a CM came up and told him to stop. Well, no sooner did the CM walk away when the boy started doing it again, another boy said "you're gonna get in trouble, she said to stop" and the firestarter said "my dad works here so I can do whatever I want" and he continued to flick sparks and ashes from the campfire towards all the other people. I was sitting there trying to roast a marshmallow and I said to him "excuse me but if I wanted to have ashes all over my marshmallows I would put them in the fire by myself" so he then said to the other boy "this is lame, let's find something else to do". I have to give the other boy credit because he said "no thanks, I'll go back to my parents now".

Okay, that's a little more than my 2 cents, but there you go.

[Donna]

I've never heard of the 'kiss goodnight'. What is that?

That is the closing comments over the loudspeaker at MK. The times i've heard it, characters come on and say goodnight (mickey/minnie) and i believe walt says a little thing. It's been a long time since i've stayed that late. It is literally closing down the park. So many people leave after parades that they don't even realize they missed it.

[bigdisneydaddy]

That is the closing comments over the loudspeaker at MK. The times i've heard it, characters come on and say goodnight (mickey/minnie) and i believe walt says a little thing. It's been a long time since i've stayed that late. It is literally closing down the park. So many people leave after parades that they don't even realize they missed it.


After a day at MK all I can hear is the shower and my pillow calling me. :rotfl:

[Swimnoid]

My family was at FW 12/17-12/23 and for the most part did not have any problems with rudeness except:

Guests who feel they don't have to wait in line for the bus, when the back doors open for the debarking guests they just "jump" the line and get on the bus through the back door. This one time the bus driver had to load a wheelchair and he politely asked the people who were boarding at the back door to please get out, well this group had a little girl of about 7 years old and the parents kept telling her to stay on the bus while the bus driver was saying please get off the bus. What kind of example does this give that little girl about obeying rules or adults? Oh and when the driver had finished loading the wheelchair the people still boarded through the back door.


Okay, that's a little more than my 2 cents, but there you go.

I was there 12/15-12/24 and I saw this everyday! Usually I'll just see it one time or so per trip.

[bigdisneydaddy]

I heard more than a few folks complaining abut having to wait while the driver loaded or unloaded a wheelchair/scooter guest.

[bigdisneydaddy]

I agree, Scott. When confronted, the standard reply seems to be "everyone else is doing it, so it must be okay." I thought that answer was left behind in high school.



I forgot to reply to you on this one.

My Mom used to counter that with "if everyone jumped off a bridge would you also?"

[Tricializ]

I heard more than a few folks complaining abut having to wait while the driver loaded or unloaded a wheelchair/scooter guest.

I have found myself getting annoyed after a long day in the parks when the bus driver has to load up a scooter. It takes what seems like forever. Of course I say nothing and realize it is just me being tired and thank God I am not in a position that I have to use one. Not excusing people who complain of such things at all. Just saying that sometimes the lack of buses in a timely manner causes some of these bad behaviors.

[bigdisneydaddy]

I have found myself getting annoyed after a long day in the parks when the bus driver has to load up a scooter. It takes what seems like forever. Of course I say nothing and realize it is just me being tired and thank God I am not in a position that I have to use one. Not excusing people who complain of such things at all. Just saying that sometimes the lack of buses in a timely manner causes some of these bad behaviors.

I agree completely but folks should keep those thoughts to themselves.

[Tricializ]

I agree completely but folks should keep those thoughts to themselves.

Oh my. Completely agree. It's the impatient part in me that is my downfall. But, truly, some of these annoyed people (and how annoyed can you be? You are at Disney, for goodness sakes..not work!) should take a walk in one of these people's shoes for just one day. As annoyed as I can internally get when I get stressed, I do have a handicapped husband who, if he went to Disney for any time, would need a scooter or wheelchair (he won't use one so he only goes to Disney rarely and for just a couple of hours at a time). I can bet with certain certainty that every single person using a scooter or wheelchair would GLADLY give up their boarding status to feel good enough to stand all day and wait in line. I was just voicing my concern for some of the ridiculously long and slow lines where bus after bus keeps pulling up at one depot and leaving the lines grow at another.

[bigdisneydaddy]

I really dont mind the busses but there are times when its just hard to move enough people on them no matter how many they have. I know its been discussed before but there has got to be a better way to move people. Walt was famous for coming up with ideas and then have the technology catch up to him, too bad something like that cant happen in the transportation.

Scott

[lovethecastle]

Donna, Thank you for the explaination of the kiss goodnight. That sounds really neat. I am never up that late anymore. Even when we are on vacation my kids get up very early.

When we went to Disney in Dec 03 my dh took our ds to see the parade & after went into the park instead of leaving with the crowd. He said there were no lines on any of the rides because of the mass exodus.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

One of our last days on vacation was the worst! We had 2 ECVs. My mom and I were able to get off of them so my sister, dad, bil..would free wheel them up the ramp. The bus driver lowered the ramp and my sister started up the ramp. As she was doing so a group of like 4 adults and a bunch of kids under the age of 5 were suppose to wait to board the bus. The kids ran up the bus steps and darted for the back of the bus. My sister almost ran into a few of the kids with the ECV.

My mom and sister made comments to the adults. They just looked at her blankly and said how were we suppose to know? one person actually said to another in their party. Is she actually yelling at us?

Uh duh! What morons.


I saw my first rude ECV person. We got to a bus at TTC to board for MGM. This lady in an ECV zips up to the back door. Well the bus had already been loading and was now loading standing room only. She made a stink with the driver that wheelchairs are priority.

I don't exactly know what the heck she was expecting. Sure--they take priority when you are already there...but it isn't a fast pass and you cannot remove people from a bus that is nearly fully loaded. :confused3

Her attitude kept on going and I inserted my pregnant 2 cents and she got really pi$$y.

Next bus after a long wait shows up and by this time there are 4 wheelchairs waiting. Now if it were me...I would have made sure to position myself so that I was first. she was too busy complaining by the benches...that she ended up placing herself 3rd in line.

Bus shows up--he goes to board the wheelchairs and she keeps her mouth shut. Then she lets a little girl go ahead of her. I'm thinking--WOW...she's redeeming herself. NOPE. The bus only boards 2 wheelchairs and not 2 seconds after she gave up her spot not once, but twice...she started complaining how this was the 2nd bus that would NOT let her on. :confused3 :confused3

FTR..all she had was a busted ankle. I can empathize with a temporary circumstance..I used a wheelchair in Hawaii when I went. But I have seen worse manners and entitlement from someone in my life. She should have looked on the bright side--she would be out of that thing soon.

[Donna]

Donna, Thank you for the explaination of the kiss goodnight. That sounds really neat. I am never up that late anymore. Even when we are on vacation my kids get up very early.

When we went to Disney in Dec 03 my dh took our ds to see the parade & after went into the park instead of leaving with the crowd. He said there were no lines on any of the rides because of the mass exodus.

You're welcome! Hey I can't stay up that late anymore either (unless i take a break during the day) so we usually do this every once in awhile. Since our family trip is usually in the summer, we take a nice long mid day break so we're all usually up later when the sun is down and the parks are cooler. That's about the only time it's doable for us!

[tallyfamily]

We had a blast at the Fort first week of December. However some of the golf cart drivers were downright scary! One guy in particular had a cart full of kids and he was zooming from the road behind the 2000 loop down into the ditches, then back up onto the road, then back into the ditch, over and over while the kids were screaming and bouncing around. I thought a child was going to come bouncing right out, or they were going to tip over or they were going to come up out of the ditch right into the path of a bus!:eek:

We also noticed a lack of "happy" CMs, particularly on the monorails!:confused3

[doubletrouble_vb]

It's not just in Disney - it's gotten worse everywhere. What can be done to bring back the social graces that should be the norm? :confused3


Flogging?

[VAN]

I do have a bit of a pet peeve regarding buses and those in ECV/Wheelchairs ... A year or so ago when we were there, we had to wait a very long time for a bus to arrive. A minute before the bus shows up, a group of 10 arrive with an extremely old person in a wheelchair. If the individual was not strapped in, he would have fallen out. Well, the bus driver holds up the line to board the wheelchair and the entire group of young adults with him troop onto the bus prior to the wheelchair boarding, filling up the back (they didn't wait for him or even sit near him).

[Our observation was that this group got Grandpa out of the nursing home so they could enjoy front-of-the-line access for their WDW vacation!! They appeared to have no concern what-so-ever about Grandpa!!]

THEN they began boarding those of us who had been waiting over a 1/2 hour. Needless to say, a good portion of the line had to wait for the next bus (another 20 minutes).

There was a time when not all the buses could take wheelchairs, so when one arrived, they needed to use it; however, all of the buses have them now and so, in my opinion, I don't see why the wheelchair and their party can't wait in line with the rest of the people. It seems to be one of those cases where they not only want "equal" treatment, but "special" treatment.

Flame all you want, this is just my opinion!!!

[Sinclare]

Most of such things don't usually bother me, though I have experienced the longer wait times (somtimes over 30-45 minutes) due to each bus comming in having to load several ecv's but I understand the position of most people using them and it just can't be helped. Many times I feel for the bus drivers even though I'm annoyed at the wait times (which seem to have gotten much longer lately).

One thing I did have a problem with though was last year in the 2000 loop. Someone brought one of those mini-motorcycles with them for their kids. This wasn't one of those toy battery power things, this was a mini-motorcycle made like a crotch rocket. They were tearing around the loop very fast with no regards to younger kids walking around or riding bikes. My parents who were worried about my younger niece whom they had almost hit once turned them in. They still kept doing it after the CM's had visited but a couple days later they were gone so I don't know if that was a result of it or not. CM's did a lot of extra drive arounds for a couple days while they were there so I suspect they may have gotten kicked out.

Still, that the kids were doing it doesn't suprise me but that the parents were letting them do it amazes me.

[ftwildernessguy]

We saw the same thing a couple of years ago. Not only was the guy driving it recklessly, but it was loud and a 2 stroke engine, so it smelled and put out a lot of exhaust fumes. A quick call to the front desk after I found out which site he was at and the offender was evicted. It seems a lot of others had complained but no one knew what site he was from. Last October someone had a 50cc scooter (licensed and street legal) which he used the same as a bicycle - parking it in the bike racks, riding on sidewalks, etc. I never did find his site. I have a Yamaha Vino, but it stays home when we go to FW. If I can leave my ride home while at Disney, everybody else can too.

[waltfan1957]

I do have a bit of a pet peeve regarding buses and those in ECV/Wheelchairs ... A year or so ago when we were there, we had to wait a very long time for a bus to arrive. A minute before the bus shows up, a group of 10 arrive with an extremely old person in a wheelchair. If the individual was not strapped in, he would have fallen out. Well, the bus driver holds up the line to board the wheelchair and the entire group of young adults with him troop onto the bus prior to the wheelchair boarding, filling up the back (they didn't wait for him or even sit near him).

[Our observation was that this group got Grandpa out of the nursing home so they could enjoy front-of-the-line access for their WDW vacation!! They appeared to have no concern what-so-ever about Grandpa!!]

THEN they began boarding those of us who had been waiting over a 1/2 hour. Needless to say, a good portion of the line had to wait for the next bus (another 20 minutes).

There was a time when not all the buses could take wheelchairs, so when one arrived, they needed to use it; however, all of the buses have them now and so, in my opinion, I don't see why the wheelchair and their party can't wait in line with the rest of the people. It seems to be one of those cases where they not only want "equal" treatment, but "special" treatment.

Flame all you want, this is just my opinion!!!

its been posted so many times why the wc/ecv's have to be loaded first its a safety issue.

[waltfan1957]

[QUOTE=Sinclare;16481983]Most of such things don't usually bother me, though I have experienced the longer wait times (somtimes over 30-45 minutes) due to each bus comming in having to load several ecv's but I understand the position of most people using them and it just can't be helped. Many times I feel for the bus drivers even though I'm annoyed at the wait times (which seem to have gotten much longer lately).

no bus can take more than 2 ecv's, fact

[susancl]

I do have a bit of a pet peeve regarding buses and those in ECV/Wheelchairs ... A year or so ago when we were there, we had to wait a very long time for a bus to arrive. A minute before the bus shows up, a group of 10 arrive with an extremely old person in a wheelchair. If the individual was not strapped in, he would have fallen out. Well, the bus driver holds up the line to board the wheelchair and the entire group of young adults with him troop onto the bus prior to the wheelchair boarding, filling up the back (they didn't wait for him or even sit near him).

[Our observation was that this group got Grandpa out of the nursing home so they could enjoy front-of-the-line access for their WDW vacation!! They appeared to have no concern what-so-ever about Grandpa!!]

THEN they began boarding those of us who had been waiting over a 1/2 hour. Needless to say, a good portion of the line had to wait for the next bus (another 20 minutes).

There was a time when not all the buses could take wheelchairs, so when one arrived, they needed to use it; however, all of the buses have them now and so, in my opinion, I don't see why the wheelchair and their party can't wait in line with the rest of the people. It seems to be one of those cases where they not only want "equal" treatment, but "special" treatment.

Flame all you want, this is just my opinion!!!

I think you can experience rude people anywhere and in any situation. There are a few reasons for wheelchairs to wait separately. The door is in the back, so logistically that's where they need to wait. Also, they need to be loaded when the bus is empty. Once people board, it takes 3 times as long to load them. I think Disney is pretty good at keeping the flow moving and has possibly studied the best way to load the ECVs and WCs.

[bigdisneydaddy]

Does the lack of enforcement of the rules diminish the perceived value of the resort ?
I am talking about:

*fires in BBQ grilles (not the safe kind in the chimneas)
*vehicles other than golf carts being used (Mules, mini bikes etc)
*guests of guests allowed to drive in to sites rather than park at the outpost and use FW transportation
*kids being allowed to drive carts (by their parents) and driving recklessly.
*pets outside of pet areas
*cutting through others campsites (not a rule, just accepted etiquette)

The last couple of times at FW I have noticed that Cast members and WDW security rarely if ever actually MAKE someone follow the rules. They will point out the rule to the guest but usually dont force the issue if the guest doesnt comply. I believe to a degree that this has emboldened some folks to think that they can do whatever they want since WDW will not actually enforce the rule(s)

Is this even worthy of debate or is it just a symbol of current society ?

SInce campers tend to be more friendly than the general public I would like to know what others think.

Thanks
Scott

[proudmomof4]

Does the lack of enforcement of the rules diminish the perceived value of the resort ?
I am talking about:

*fires in BBQ grilles (not the safe kind in the chimneas)
*vehicles other than golf carts being used (Mules, mini bikes etc)
*guests of guests allowed to drive in to sites rather than park at the outpost and use FW transportation
*kids being allowed to drive carts (by their parents) and driving recklessly.
*pets outside of pet areas
*cutting through others campsites (not a rule, just accepted etiquette)

The last couple of times at FW I have noticed that Cast members and WDW security rarely if ever actually MAKE someone follow the rules. They will point out the rule to the guest but usually dont force the issue if the guest doesnt comply. I believe to a degree that this has emboldened some folks to think that they can do whatever they want since WDW will not actually enforce the rule(s)

Is this even worthy of debate or is it just a symbol of current society ?

SInce campers tend to be more friendly than the general public I would like to know what others think.

Thanks
Scott

Unfortunately, I think this is a symbol of current society. I just don't feel that peope (in general, not all people) are raising their children to have respect for others. It seems that kids are raised to feel that it is all about "me", I don't think the parents are doing it intentially (maybe some are) but rather its what happens when kids have learned to be self-reliant from a very young age and the cycle just continues and gets worse with each succeeding generation.

For example: I went to Busch Gardens recently with a friend and her children, her children had asked if some of their friends (whom I didn't know) from school could come too, well, the mother of these children just dropped the kids off at the front gate and left. As we made our way around the park I was sitting with my friend and my kids (one doesn't like roller coasters and the other is still too small to ride) at each roller coaster while her kids and their friends would go on, these kids would always come back in record time, finally I said let's go over to Rhino Rally but the other kids wanted to go to yet another coaster, so I said it would take too much time and they said "oh no it won't, we cut the lines", well I gave these kids such a look and then proceeded to tell them how rude and inconsiderate they were, they just rolled their eyes and walked off to the next roller coaster.
As we were leaving the park, one of the boys actually sat in a wheelchair parked outside an attraction and one of his sisters started pushing him in it, I told my friend "your kids' friends are taking someone's wheelchair", my friend had to chase them down and make them put it back. This wasn't a park owned wheelchair either, it was someone's personal wheelchair that they had flown to Florida with. These kids just didn't care who they inconvenienced or hurt by their actions, when I asked about their mother my friend told me "oh, she doesn't like to come here so she just drops them off and lets them go free until they call her to pick them up."

Sorry to run on for so long, I just wanted to give a few examples.

[UrsulasShadow]

... A minute before the bus shows up, a group of 10 arrive with an extremely old person in a wheelchair. If the individual was not strapped in, he would have fallen out.

[Our observation was that this group got Grandpa out of the nursing home so they could enjoy front-of-the-line access for their WDW vacation!! They appeared to have no concern what-so-ever about Grandpa!!]



I'm not going to comment on the rest of this post, but this part just struck me as funny. I've heard a lot of different things about what people might be willing to do to cut a few minutes from their waiting time, but pulling Gramps out of a nursing home and dragging him around WDW to get to the front of a bus line...now, that's just funny!:dance3:

[Sinclare]

[QUOTE=Sinclare;16481983]Most of such things don't usually bother me, though I have experienced the longer wait times (somtimes over 30-45 minutes) due to each bus comming in having to load several ecv's but I understand the position of most people using them and it just can't be helped. Many times I feel for the bus drivers even though I'm annoyed at the wait times (which seem to have gotten much longer lately).

no bus can take more than 2 ecv's, fact

true, hence the word several. but there are times when there are so many that every bus comming and going has to load/unload them. When you only have a couple busses running in a loop and delay each one 10-20 minutes at each stop, it adds up.

[FloridaTeacher]

Everywhere you go, there will be people who are rude. :confused3 You can do nothing about them. You can't control other people, but you can control your reaction to them. I REFUSE to allow them to ruin my vacation!!:thumbsup2

[Tricializ]

It's how people WALK in the parks. First of all, could some people BE any slower? Not talking young kids or older people. Basic young adults, older kids etc. walking at a pace that if it were any slower they would be going backwards. And, these same people spread out across the sidewalk so you stand no chance of getting by.

Or...people who stop with their whole party in the middle of a walkway to adjust something, take some pictures, talk or whatever....always in the middle of peak movement times (like after a parade).

Or (and this is my final one I think), people who cut right in front of you (or more specifically my stroller). I am walking a straight path and people will just step directly in front of the moving stroller. I have resorted to ramming them. :confused3 Anyway, it's not ruining my vacation by any stretch, but currently driving me nuts!

[Gillian]

It's how people WALK in the parks. First of all, could some people BE any slower? Not talking young kids or older people. Basic young adults, older kids etc. walking at a pace that if it were any slower they would be going backwards. And, these same people spread out across the sidewalk so you stand no chance of getting by.I think most of this is people being caught up in the experience, or not being aware of people around them. It doesn't strike me as rude in the way many of the other behaviors do.

[Gillian]

It makes me sad to hear of the problems you experienced at FW. You expect that campers will be a nicer group of people in general.

The only problems we encountered in April were with reckless golf cart driving. We rarely took the bus.