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LPZ_Stitch!
12-30-2006, 05:09 PM
We're considering DVC, but were wondering where we can find what the point costs are to stay at non-DVC resorts as well as the other non-DisneyWorld resorts that are part of the program (through Interval International).

So far I've only been able to find point costs only for DVC resorts.

We just returned from our trip and we stayed at the AKL ... we'd love to stay there again....

What, for example, are the DVC point costs for staying at the AKL?

Thanks in advance!

JRDisneyClan
12-30-2006, 05:27 PM
First, they just announced in October that there will be a DVC resort at AKL. It will start with conversion of existing rooms, but there will be new construction to follow. You'll see it in threads as VAKL or AKLV.

I don't have any links to non-DVC resort points required online (hopefully, someone else can provide), but typically, those amounts are very high & not a very economical use of DVC points. They are broken down into seasons, days of the week & room types as well.

To exchange into the World Passport Collection through II, it's 160, 144 & 124 pts. for a 1BR in Red, White or Blue weeks and 270, 252 & 207 for a 2BR (High, Mid or Low Season). Again, a lot of DVC points for most exchanges, especially if you already own another TS.

Hope that helps before other people start to post.

Caskbill
12-30-2006, 05:57 PM
You'll see it in threads as VAKL or AKLV.

DVC's official designation is Animal Kingdom Villas, and thus on the DIS boards we are using the designation AKV.

TDC Nala
12-30-2006, 06:12 PM
I would not use DVC points to stay at other WDW resorts. The point allotment is way too high. A week in value season would be 249 points in a pool view (not even a savannah view) whereas a week in Adventure Season at the BCV would be 104 points for a studio and 200 for a one-bedroom.

If you're going to buy points with the expectation of using them mostly at non-DVC resorts at WDW, you'd probably be better off just paying cash for your stays.

If it's AKL you are interested in, buy there when they open the DVC resort there.

tubtruck
12-30-2006, 08:08 PM
The points required at the other Disney resorts is a joke, the high point rates especially on weekends must cost Disney revenue. I have rented out points then paid cash for a hotel ressie rather than throw them away at disney hotel rates. I would have thought this will especially hit Disneys mod resorts as quite a lot of people who rent points would likely end up in these resorts if they are unable to rent and stay in a delux DVC resort.

dianeschlicht
12-30-2006, 09:47 PM
A reservation at a non-DVC resort at WDW is still treated like a trade would be at any timeshare. It is an "out of network" trade, so the cost must be negotiated between the resort and DVC either annually or every other year. The point requirements for the non-DVC Disney resorts changes often, and always goes up as hotel costs go up. Besides not being a good value point cost wise, with a regular Disney resort, you will only be getting a hotel room. With a DVC resort, you will get a vill complete with kitchen, Jacuzzi, laundry facilities inside the villa, and a king bed in the master as well as a seperate living room.

As for II trades, that is dependant on what's available at your requested trade location and the season you are trading. If you assume high season for everything, you will be pleasantly surprised when it costs you less than a week's worth of points. For example: We traded a week (OKW) for a week in Hawaii (1 bedroom). It was 160 points, which is what the 1 bedroom would have cost me in a DVC high season.

Dean
12-31-2006, 07:51 AM
As for II trades, that is dependant on what's available at your requested trade location and the season you are trading. If you assume high season for everything, you will be pleasantly surprised when it costs you less than a week's worth of points. For example: We traded a week (OKW) for a week in Hawaii (1 bedroom). It was 160 points, which is what the 1 bedroom would have cost me in a DVC high season.LOL, or unpleasantly surprised when you find out the person in the next unit traded in with a timeshare that cost them $500 total for the purchase with yearly fees of $450 per year and they actually traded in with a bonus (freebie) week they got when they deposited their week with II. And you gave up 160 to 270 pts. Seriously, the 1 BR trades are currently the best value and the studio the worst. Not only is the points structure for the 1 BR the most favorable, it also gives you the chance to get a 2 BR for 1 BR points in some cases with an ongoing search.

CarolMN
12-31-2006, 08:51 AM
We're considering DVC, but were wondering where we can find what the point costs are to stay at non-DVC resorts as well as the other non-DisneyWorld resorts that are part of the program (through Interval International).

So far I've only been able to find point costs only for DVC resorts.

We just returned from our trip and we stayed at the AKL ... we'd love to stay there again....

What, for example, are the DVC point costs for staying at the AKL?

Thanks in advance!

You will find point charts for 2007 in these threads:

DCL Cruises
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1089437

Conceirge/Adventurer/World Passport Collections
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1089453

Disney Collection, including Adventures by Disney
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1089462

rlmas
12-31-2006, 10:21 AM
"A reservation at a non-DVC resort at WDW is still treated like a trade would be at any timeshare. It is an "out of network" trade, so the cost must be negotiated between the resort and DVC either annually or every other year. The point requirements for the non-DVC Disney resorts changes often, and always goes up as hotel costs go up. Besides not being a good value point cost wise, with a regular Disney resort, you will only be getting a hotel room. With a DVC resort, you will get a vill complete with kitchen, Jacuzzi, laundry facilities inside the villa, and a king bed in the master as well as a seperate living room. "

In your comments above, you mentioned rising cost of WDW hotel rooms. It would seem we should get some credit for the fact that our DVC accomodations being given up in exchange also increase in value each year. Am I missing something as to why the points to trade outside to Disney go up?

Dean
12-31-2006, 10:44 AM
In your comments above, you mentioned rising cost of WDW hotel rooms. It would seem we should get some credit for the fact that our DVC accomodations being given up in exchange also increase in value each year. Am I missing something as to why the points to trade outside to Disney go up?You'd think and that the trades would stay the same number of points or become even less. However everything has been getting more expensive other than the current DL specials and a SUBSET of II exchanges.

tubtruck
12-31-2006, 11:25 AM
You'd think and that the trades would stay the same number of points or become even less. However everything has been getting more expensive other than the current DL specials and a SUBSET of II exchanges.

Yes tihs is right and they definently should go down over the years at the mod resorts given that for cash they are around half the price of the DVC resorts so with inflation they will only go up by half as much each year in money terms so in theory they should go down in point terms. Should DVC be pushed to negotiate better terms with Disney hotels for point usage?

TDC Nala
12-31-2006, 11:53 AM
A reservation at a non-DVC resort at WDW is still treated like a trade would be at any timeshare. It is an "out of network" trade, so the cost must be negotiated between the resort and DVC either annually or every other year. The point requirements for the non-DVC Disney resorts changes often, and always goes up as hotel costs go up. Besides not being a good value point cost wise, with a regular Disney resort, you will only be getting a hotel room. With a DVC resort, you will get a vill complete with kitchen, Jacuzzi, laundry facilities inside the villa, and a king bed in the master as well as a seperate living room.



True, if you book 1 bedroom or above. If you book studios, you'll get a kitchenette (small fridge and microwave) and free laundry facilities in public laundry rooms. Regular hotel bathroom, no Jacuzzi tub. I know somebody will say they don't understand why anybody would book a studio when they could get a one-bedroom, but lots of people must, because I have trouble getting them at the last minute.

WebmasterDoc
12-31-2006, 11:54 AM
Yes tihs is right and they definently should go down over the years at the mod resorts given that for cash they are around half the price of the DVC resorts so with inflation they will only go up by half as much each year in money terms so in theory they should go down in point terms. Should DVC be pushed to negotiate better terms with Disney hotels for point usage?


I think Disney uses the maintenance fee "value" of a DVC point when computing the relative value for the non-DVC options. On this site we like to use a "retail" rental rate of $10-$12 per point when arguing the relative value of the non-DVC options, but the reality is that we only paid $4+ for those points for the particular year - even though they have more "value" to us when we add in our purchase price, opportunity cost and relative emotional cost.

Even though the cash rates for DVC resorts have risen similarly to other WDW resorts and even though our annual fees have increased a similar % - the net effect is that the "cost" of a stay in a DVC villa using points (mulitply the annual fee per point by the number of points required) will have risen less (in $$) than the rack rate for moderate and deluxe WDW resorts (including DVC resort rack rates). When you also include the additional expense of daily housekeeping, the points required for the non-DVC options is accentuated even more.

Another "cost" included in these transactions are the expenses involved by the need to use CRO (you don't think they provide that "service" for free ???) as the reservation agency for these points and any DVC rooms that still go empty even though the points were used by the member. Those two factors add additional expense to the equation used in the "negotiations". I don't think there is any "real" negotiation - more likely just applying an accounting
formula to create the point chart.


I don't expect that we'll see any significant reduction in the point charts for the non-DVC options over time.

Stay tuned!

mowog
12-31-2006, 04:02 PM
IMHO, if using points at a non DVC resort is very important, then maybe you shouldn't be buying DVC. I think many here with a "average" or "modest" amount of points will agree that using points at a non DVC resort, or even a cruise, is not the most effective use of our points. When talking to a prospective buyer, I suggest they not even consider the off site options when making their DVC decision.

Dean
12-31-2006, 04:45 PM
Should DVC be pushed to negotiate better terms with Disney hotels for point usage?IMO, yes but I don't think the members as a whole have the stomach for it. It would take DVC having a backbone and playing hardball with the other components of Disney. And it would take the members being willing to give up some choices. It'd go something like this. CR says 40 pts for a night and DVC says no, we'll give 30. CR says no and DVC walks away. Unless the other entities knew DVC were willing to do this they would have little incentive to give them much of a deal other than as it is now, a token gesture. When I've posted this in the past there has been all type of whining that X option couldn't be left out no matter what the cost.

I think it's also helpful to realize how they do this. They reserve a DVC room usually at a lower demand time and give it to CRO who takes a cut. Not all rooms are then rented out, I know several years ago it was about 75% of them were. Given the points structure and pricing, that means that a deluxe should be somewhere around 150-200% of the points of a studio and a moderate should be about the same or less. DVD says it's a zero sum situation where they only strive to make the dollars taken in for the points exchanged to be equal to those paid out. Frankly, I'm not totally sure I believe this but have been told that several times. Regardless, the ones making money are the destination resorts and CRO at the expense of the members. Unfortunately Doc is right that they are only giving us credit for maybe just over the maint fees at best.

rlmas
01-01-2007, 02:21 AM
"I think Disney uses the maintenance fee "value" of a DVC point when computing the relative value for the non-DVC options. On this site we like to use a "retail" rental rate of $10-$12 per point when arguing the relative value of the non-DVC options, but the reality is that we only paid $4+ for those points for the particular year - even though they have more "value" to us when we add in our purchase price, opportunity cost and relative emotional cost."

I agree with what was said above, except they "should" give us the value per point based on what they get in return. In other words, if the points we give up to go elsewhere allow them to rent DVC acomodations for cash, that cash less costs for admin and average vacany, etc. should be used to pay for the non-DVC stay. I don't think this should be a profit center. Give us the cash less costs....we own the place.

Dean
01-01-2007, 08:20 AM
I agree with what was said above, except they "should" give us the value per point based on what they get in return. In other words, if the points we give up to go elsewhere allow them to rent DVC acomodations for cash, that cash less costs for admin and average vacany, etc. should be used to pay for the non-DVC stay. I don't think this should be a profit center. Give us the cash less costs....we own the place.That's what they say they do.

alldiz
01-01-2007, 08:57 AM
You will find point charts for 2007 in these threads:

DCL Cruises
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1089437

Conceirge/Adventurer/World Passport Collections
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1089453

Disney Collection, including Adventures by Disney
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1089462


Thanks.....
As a not yet official member....i'm trying to
absorb the wealth of knowledge on these boards...
Everyone is so helpful..
thanks
kerri

WebmasterDoc
01-01-2007, 09:32 AM
I agree with what was said above, except they "should" give us the value per point based on what they get in return. In other words, if the points we give up to go elsewhere allow them to rent DVC acomodations for cash, that cash less costs for admin and average vacany, etc. should be used to pay for the non-DVC stay. I don't think this should be a profit center. Give us the cash less costs....we own the place.

We have no way of knowing the number of points used for the non-DVC options and that information, to my knowledge, has never been published. Those points are converted into DVC reservations for use by CRO. Any of those rooms that go unrented or that must be discounted will affect the accounting formula used for the point charts. Any of these vacant rooms mean that no revenue comes in to "pay" for the non-DVC options.

This includes any empty rooms at HH and VB as well as SSR, OKW, VWL, BCV and BWV.

As Dean noted, DVC does tell us they make no profit from the exchange programs and I suspect there may have even been years when there may have been a debit situation regarding the "costs" of the non-DVC options.

(For the Disney non-DVC programs - no money actually changes hands - it's all done on an accounting basis between the other resorts, DCL and DVC. FOr the non-Disney options - like Concierge Collection - there is a more tangible payment system.)

rlmas
01-02-2007, 04:43 PM
"We have no way of knowing the number of points used for the non-DVC options and that information, to my knowledge, has never been published. Those points are converted into DVC reservations for use by CRO. Any of those rooms that go unrented or that must be discounted will affect the accounting formula used for the point charts. Any of these vacant rooms mean that no revenue comes in to "pay" for the non-DVC options.

This includes any empty rooms at HH and VB as well as SSR, OKW, VWL, BCV and BWV.

As Dean noted, DVC does tell us they make no profit from the exchange programs and I suspect there may have even been years when there may have been a debit situation regarding the "costs" of the non-DVC options."

I agree and do not wish to be untrusting, but if DVC overpays for the Disney trade options at our expense, what you say could be true. DVC is not profiting on the trades, but Disney's other divisions could be by getting above market rates from DVC. I looked back at old materials going back 10 years or so and the number of points for the Disney options has gone up much faster than inflation or the cash cost of the rooms.

An example is the CR at 22 points Sun - Thur Reg Season in 1997;22 in 2000; 39 in 2005 and 48 this year. I calulate this as around an 8% annual rate of inflation. One would assume that to keep profits the same at the other Disney divisions we would not have to pay more than a regular cash paying customer at most and might even hope that the increase in the cash value of our accomodations would offset this a little bit. Based on the above, it looks like the cash value of our accomodations has decreased, but we know that is not true. Many outside or non-Disney trades havve seemd to stay more level, indicating that the above comments seem to apply here. I hope this makes sense. I am just trying to figure all this out.

Dean
01-02-2007, 09:51 PM
I agree and do not wish to be untrusting, but if DVC overpays for the Disney trade options at our expense, what you say could be true. DVC is not profiting on the trades, but Disney's other divisions could be by getting above market rates from DVC. I looked back at old materials going back 10 years or so and the number of points for the Disney options has gone up much faster than inflation or the cash cost of the rooms.

An example is the CR at 22 points Sun - Thur Reg Season in 1997;22 in 2000; 39 in 2005 and 48 this year. I calulate this as around an 8% annual rate of inflation. One would assume that to keep profits the same at the other Disney divisions we would not have to pay more than a regular cash paying customer at most and might even hope that the increase in the cash value of our accomodations would offset this a little bit. Based on the above, it looks like the cash value of our accomodations has decreased, but we know that is not true. Many outside or non-Disney trades havve seemd to stay more level, indicating that the above comments seem to apply here. I hope this makes sense. I am just trying to figure all this out.I don't think the other DC resorts are getting above market rates but rather not discounting as much as they might should given their overall structure. Remember there are also a lot more DVC rooms to rent out than there were once and for OKW and SSR (and HH/VB) it's likely a higher percentage are going unused than when there were a lot less rooms to convert to cash.

rlmas
01-02-2007, 11:41 PM
Thanks for the insights. I guess the moral of the story is what has been said her many times before....buy where you want to stay and if your primary objective is to trade (Disney Collection of otherwise), maybe do not buy.