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View Full Version : Please, Barbara, tell us how you TRULY feel!


bicker
12-18-2006, 11:49 AM
http://travel.news.yahoo.com/b/b_correa/20061212/b_correa/b_correa17369

goofy4tink
12-18-2006, 12:00 PM
Well, I have to agree with most of her points. I had a gentleman flying next to me, he was in the middle seat, his young son had the window seat and I had the aisle seat. It was a JetBlue flight, so my tv function pad was on the armrest between us. It was mighty hard to get my fingers to the touch pad with his arm on it!! There was a lot of 'oh, excuse me', 'oh, sorry.'...that kind of stuff with me trying to change my channels. So..he has two arm rests now and I have one, the one with no controls. Ah, I don't think so. Sorry but that's the price you pay for ending up in the middle. I know...that's the seat I usually end up in!

jctwizzer
12-18-2006, 12:26 PM
sounds reasonable to me...she forgot the ones who recline into your lap....I usually blow gently into their hair....which works once in awhile :cool1:

antmaril
12-18-2006, 01:35 PM
sounds reasonable to me...she forgot the ones who recline into your lap....I usually blow gently into their hair....which works once in awhile :cool1:


This is the thing that really gets me - reclining into my lap. Oh boy, that gets my goat. Absolutely no concern or regard for the person behind you. If you are ever sitting behind me, you'll be glad, because I NEVER recline the seat. Of course, if the seat behind me is vacant, that's another story.

Just because you can, doesn't me you should :sad2:

Tasmen
12-18-2006, 03:00 PM
The last time I flew made me never want to fly coach again if I can avoid it mainly because of some of the points brought up in that article. It saddens me that we've turned into a society where people take little thought or care about how their mememe actions may effect the person sitting next to you on a plane.

AllyBri
12-18-2006, 03:53 PM
Don't get me started. But it's the quickest way to get from here to there.
So you just have to put up with the nonsense.

NotUrsula
12-18-2006, 04:12 PM
For years now, I've adhered to the unwritten rule that he who gets the middle seat gets BOTH armrests as a consolation prize. Since you have nowhere to lean, it's either that or sit with your arms crossed for the entire flight.

However (and it is a big however), in cases where there is a set of personal entertainment controls in the armrest, the person sitting in the seat that the controls work for gets the controls, which in practice means the person sitting in the aisle seat on the starboard side gets the armrest to his/her right. I still think it is kind of that person to let the hapless middle seat occupant use the back 3 inches of that armrest to prop an elbow when needed. (Of course, if you are sitting with your own child, you can lean into the child's space, so a center-seated person with a child sitting in the window spot should lean thataway.)

Also, just FYI, even if you are in Florida in the summertime, put a shirt with sleeves in your carryon to wear on the plane. I really don't feel comfortable sitting skin-to-skin with a total stranger, though elbow to wrist is more or less OK. (For men who feel they MUST sit with their legs splayed, your legs count, too -- pack some long pants if you are seated next to anyone who isn't family!) Last time I flew back from Florida in the summertime alone with DS, a man who had obviously come direct from the parks sat next to us in the aisle seat, with his family in other rows (this was on SWA, he boarded late): The guy was wearing a MESH wife-beater T and a pr. of spandex athletic shorts -- both white. He was a large man, and I spent the entire flight trying desperately not to touch him or his apparent underclothing. (We won't even discuss the abundant body hair.)

goofy4tink
12-18-2006, 05:10 PM
Yep, I always try to fly in long sleeves/jeans....for that very reason!!!! I'm usually more than happy to share the armrest, but since the gentleman sitting next to me was in fact sitting next to his own child, I figured he could have leaned that way a bit, but that didn't happen. I will say that his son was very well behaved though. As was his daughter in the seat behind them, with his wife. That was some consolation.

CarolA
12-18-2006, 05:42 PM
I love it. Especially the overhead part. I (a woman) figure if I can't get it up there it goes UNDER the plane. No questions.

(And if your 22" carryon is STUFFED to the gills, all the pockets are stuffed and you expanded everything you could CHECK IT.... chances are it's not going to fit and it's RUDE to hold up boarding while you unpack in the aisle!)

disneyldwjr
12-18-2006, 05:47 PM
sounds reasonable to me...she forgot the ones who recline into your lap....I usually blow gently into their hair....which works once in awhile :cool1:
I generally fly SWA and perhaps their seats are different, but, I have yet to be bothered by anyone reclining their seats. I cannot even see the top of their heads.
As to blowing your germs/breath on someone, how rude!!!!! I also recline my seat cause there is nothing worse than napping with your head constantly falling foward and snapping your neck. Of course, I do ask the pax behind me if it would bother them. Happily, all have said "sure, no problem".

OhMari
12-18-2006, 08:50 PM
I have a flight for 2:30 p.m. I will not be drinking anything from 9:00 a.m. till I get to Orlando. Otherwise, I would be one of those obnoxious people that get up every half hour to go to the bathroom. I was told their is nothing wrong with me-had it check out. Just a person that goes to the bathroom a lot when I drink any liquids.

Lizziejane
12-18-2006, 09:31 PM
I'm probably going to get flamed here, but my pet peeve is the large person sitting beside me who takes up half of my seat. Invariably, they get there before me, and lift the armrest completely so that they have more room (in other words, they can spill freely into my seat).

I do sympathize with them - these seats are not built for anyone weighing more than 150 lbs. That being said, I didn't pay half price for my seat, so why do I only end up with half a seat? I end up having to scrunch into half of the already ridiculously small space and end up with all kinds of kinks in my neck and shoulders.

I'm sorry, but some people really do need two seats. I don't know if they should be made to pay for the second seat or not - I'm not getting into that arguement - I just know that I shouldn't be expected to provide the extra space for them when I've paid for my space fair and square.

flying_babyb
12-19-2006, 12:32 AM
what gets my goat is the people who see that Im 4 foot 10 and still expect me to magically stuff my carry- in in the compartment (thats 5 foot 5")

ducklite
12-19-2006, 04:50 AM
what gets my goat is the people who see that Im 4 foot 10 and still expect me to magically stuff my carry- in in the compartment (thats 5 foot 5")

I think it's pretty presumptuous to expect others to help you with your personal belongings that you could have checked.

And if you are 4'10", your arms should have no problem reaching the 5'5" overhead to lift a bag in--that's no different than me getting things down off a six foot shelf. While it's not the most convenient, it's certainly doable without risk of injury--provided the item isn't huge and overly heavy. If your bag is too heavy for you to lift into the overhead, then it shouldn't be up there to begin with.

Anne

simzac
12-19-2006, 04:55 AM
I thought it was a well written article, and I agree with everything written.

ducklite
12-19-2006, 04:56 AM
I'm probably going to get flamed here, but my pet peeve is the large person sitting beside me who takes up half of my seat. Invariably, they get there before me, and lift the armrest completely so that they have more room (in other words, they can spill freely into my seat).

I do sympathize with them - these seats are not built for anyone weighing more than 150 lbs. That being said, I didn't pay half price for my seat, so why do I only end up with half a seat? I end up having to scrunch into half of the already ridiculously small space and end up with all kinds of kinks in my neck and shoulders.

I'm sorry, but some people really do need two seats. I don't know if they should be made to pay for the second seat or not - I'm not getting into that arguement - I just know that I shouldn't be expected to provide the extra space for them when I've paid for my space fair and square.

No flame from me. I think that obese people should have to pay for a second seat unless they can get a letter from a doctor stating that the obesity is due to a endocrine disorder (or something along those lines) not controllable by medication. In other words, if with proper diet and excercise the person would not be obese, then they need to buy two seats. If it's truly a MEDICAL disorder, then they would be accomodated. The idea of giving someone a free seat (that the rest of us are footing the bill for) because they CHOOSE to not take care of their bodies is beyond irritating to me. I think Bicker will agree.

That said, my 175 pound 6' husband can fit into a seat with no problem. His knees don't go to his chin, and he doesn't spill over into the next seat. I laugh when I read that 6' tall men have had thier knees bruised because the seats were too close. Right. :rolleyes:

Anne

flying_babyb
12-19-2006, 05:24 AM
Hate to agree but I agree. My whole family is larger. I have a 4x freind who needs two seats and dosent complain about buying two.

UConnJack
12-19-2006, 09:05 AM
This is the thing that really gets me - reclining into my lap. Oh boy, that gets my goat. Absolutely no concern or regard for the person behind you. If you are ever sitting behind me, you'll be glad, because I NEVER recline the seat. Of course, if the seat behind me is vacant, that's another story.

Just because you can, doesn't me you should :sad2:

If you want to sit at a 90 degree angle and rigid as a board in an unreclined seat, then that is your prerogative. "Reclining into my lap" is a huge exaggeration; seats only recline 6-10 inches, hardly into your lap. If this bothers you, then recline your seat and solve the problem. Most people recline their seats, I think it is expected.

bicker
12-19-2006, 09:56 AM
Actually, the typical recline is about 4-6 inches. Regardless, reclining a seat is an appropriate use of the space you're given. Extending your arm (or any other part of your body) over into some stranger's seat to either side is not appropriate.

Lewisc
12-19-2006, 10:10 AM
My opinion is passengers are entitled to recline their seats. We're just using our seats as designed.

Some frequent flyers assert that when some legacy airlines reconfigured their aircraft, reducing pitch by adding extra rows of seats, they didn't restrict the recline to reflect the reduced pitch.

NotUrsula
12-19-2006, 10:44 AM
Some frequent flyers assert that when some legacy airlines reconfigured their aircraft, reducing pitch by adding extra rows of seats, they didn't restrict the recline to reflect the reduced pitch.

True. A 10-in. recline is a significant intrusion when the seat pitch is only 31 inches, but not so bad when it is 35. Older seats also have thicker back cushions, which also take up more space. The larger the plane, the more generous the recline usually is, because larger planes are most commonly used for long hauls.

I find that the age of the fittings makes a big difference in this regard. My personal pet annoyance is the passenger I think of as a seat-breaker -- the one who deliberately slams his/her body weight against the seat back while holding the latch. There are a lot of these people. The mechanism is only a ratchet; hit it hard enough and it will slip past the last notch. After years of this treatment, the seat won't stay fully upright at all, and it will recline much further than it was meant to. There are a LOT of seats like this on aircraft that haven't been refitted in a while.

As for rearranging things in the overhead: I don't have an issue if they are just shifting it an inch or two, or turning a case wheels-in. If there is a coat there, they should ask you to take it back for a moment so that they can put the case in without crushing it. Moving someone's case to another bin entirely is rude beyond belief.

Oh, and for short women: choose the aisle seat. You can toe your shoes off for a minute and stand on the seat cushion to put your carryon in the overhead. That's how most short people manage, just like we do in the grocery store.

seashoreCM
12-19-2006, 10:57 AM
People, you gotta stand up for your rights about someone in your seat.

When bringing up the situation with the complaint resolution officer, you do not have to and in fact should not make reference to the larger person other than to say "somebody" is occupying your seat and the airline should find you another seat before departure.

What, pray, should happen if the larger person bought a ticket that cost thee times as much?

And about the TV controls, you need to do a lot of channel surfing to make it dawn on him he should not obstruct your controls. Just say you don't like commercials. And after so many times I don'[t think it is necessary to say excuse me eacn and every time.

Many taller people can actually make do better with existing seats by getting their rear back a bit more.

Also, just FYI, ..., put a shirt with sleeves in your carryon to wear on the plane. I really don't feel comfortable sitting skin-to-skin with a total stranger, though elbow to wrist is more or less OK. ... -- pack some long pants if you are seated next to anyone who isn't family!) The guy was wearing a MESH wife-beater T and a pr. of spandex athletic shorts --
I'm afraid I'm a big offender in this me-me-me attitude. How bad? Enough to get thrown out of the restaurant we have our [Boston] DIS meets at. The only way I can tell you were not talking about me is that I am not that large.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

Tasmen
12-19-2006, 12:03 PM
I'm probably going to get flamed here, but my pet peeve is the large person sitting beside me who takes up half of my seat. Invariably, they get there before me, and lift the armrest completely so that they have more room (in other words, they can spill freely into my seat).

Wow. I've never had anyone actually lift the armrest so that they could have extra room. That's horrible. I did, however, on my last flight to Vegas sit in what I dubbed the 'overflow' aisle. The man on the aisle seat was overflowing into the middle seat which caused the guy in the middle seat to overflow into my seat (window). I was pressed against the window with one shoulder kinked forward the entire flight. I was extremely happy that the flight was only 2 1/2 hours.

Bill From PA
12-19-2006, 12:41 PM
I've had large travelling companions 'spill' into my seat and solved it by returning the armrest to its functional position. Only once did a guy protest that his seat wasn't big enough for him to which I replied, "I need all of mine, too."

I'm reminded of a quip by some comic back in the day when deregulation kicked in and airfares dropped to more affordable levels. He said that there are a lot of people flying now who really ought to be riding on Greyhound.

Bill From PA

Tasmen
12-19-2006, 12:47 PM
He said that there are a lot of people flying now who really ought to be riding on Greyhound.

Good quote.

NotUrsula
12-19-2006, 01:36 PM
About the skimpy clothing -- coach seats on a plane put passengers in REALLY close quarters. I don't want to be 3 inches from exposed armpit hair on any man that I don't know in the Biblical sense, and I don't want the hair on your thigh touching my leg for two hours either -- that's a part of you I don't want to feel unless we're dating. (And for the record, mesh undershirts and excessive back hair are NOT an attractive combination, trust me.)

In a restaurant you are not going to be that close to me if you don't know me, and if you did get that close I would be able to move away a bit and put space between us. I don't have that option on a plane. It's not that I'm prudish, but feeling (and smelling) that much of a stranger's skin is just too personal when I have no choice.

tedhowe
12-19-2006, 02:13 PM
I'm probably going to get flamed here, but my pet peeve is the large person sitting beside me who takes up half of my seat. Invariably, they get there before me, and lift the armrest completely so that they have more room (in other words, they can spill freely into my seat).

I do sympathize with them - these seats are not built for anyone weighing more than 150 lbs. That being said, I didn't pay half price for my seat, so why do I only end up with half a seat? I end up having to scrunch into half of the already ridiculously small space and end up with all kinds of kinks in my neck and shoulders.

I'm sorry, but some people really do need two seats. I don't know if they should be made to pay for the second seat or not - I'm not getting into that arguement - I just know that I shouldn't be expected to provide the extra space for them when I've paid for my space fair and square.

No flames from me either... I am a Pooh sized flyer. My wife is large as well.
I gained weight throughout my 20's. Managed to stabilize my weight around the time I turned 30, and now that I'm 37, I'm finally starting to go back in the right direction.

When we fly for vacations, we don't fly coach class with one seat each. Before we had kids, we would purchase 3 coach seats for the 2 of us - leaving the middle seat open. Much more comfortable, and a reasonable premium. Now that we have two small daughters, we buy the 4 seats (we've always purchased seats for the girls - even when we flew when they were infants) - 2 and 2. In those situations, I do raise the armrest for a bit more comfort - I figure I paid for both seats, so why not.

When I fly for business (usually very rare - but about 6 round trips in the last 18 months) I don't have the option, so i do two things to try to be considerate of my row-mates.

1) I do everything possible to get an aisle or window. I can manage to take up room in the aisle and still get out of the way of the flight attendants or people moving up and down the cabin - or I can wedge myself into the wall of the cabin pretty well.

2), I NEVER take up more than my share of a seat - I make sure I have the armrest DOWN in it's lowered position and that I'm completely on my side.

I'm a pretty big guy, but my size is configured so that I am more thick rather than wide (I'm plenty wide enough, but not nearly as wide as some I've seen). So this may be easier for me to do than some others.

I also NEVER recline my seat more than just a crack. Because of how much my Pooh belly sticks out, I am very sensitive to the intrusion of space it can be.

I don't begrude people using the space they are allotted - whether that is reclining or not - I just try to use as little space as I can so that I'm not bothering others.

Ted

RachelEllen
12-19-2006, 02:16 PM
I agree with most of the points, but I'm afraid I'm a frequant bathroom break offender. Some of us nervous fliers can't really help it. :blush:

(Not every half though, by any means, but at least every 2 - 3 hrs)

MycatlovesEeyore
12-19-2006, 02:51 PM
No flames from me either... I am a Pooh sized flyer. My wife is large as well.
I gained weight throughout my 20's. Managed to stabilize my weight around the time I turned 30, and now that I'm 37, I'm finally starting to go back in the right direction.

When we fly for vacations, we don't fly coach class with one seat each. Before we had kids, we would purchase 3 coach seats for the 2 of us - leaving the middle seat open. Much more comfortable, and a reasonable premium. Now that we have two small daughters, we buy the 4 seats (we've always purchased seats for the girls - even when we flew when they were infants) - 2 and 2. In those situations, I do raise the armrest for a bit more comfort - I figure I paid for both seats, so why not.

When I fly for business (usually very rare - but about 6 round trips in the last 18 months) I don't have the option, so i do two things to try to be considerate of my row-mates.

1) I do everything possible to get an aisle or window. I can manage to take up room in the aisle and still get out of the way of the flight attendants or people moving up and down the cabin - or I can wedge myself into the wall of the cabin pretty well.

2), I NEVER take up more than my share of a seat - I make sure I have the armrest DOWN in it's lowered position and that I'm completely on my side.

I'm a pretty big guy, but my size is configured so that I am more thick rather than wide (I'm plenty wide enough, but not nearly as wide as some I've seen). So this may be easier for me to do than some others.

I also NEVER recline my seat more than just a crack. Because of how much my Pooh belly sticks out, I am very sensitive to the intrusion of space it can be.

I don't begrude people using the space they are allotted - whether that is reclining or not - I just try to use as little space as I can so that I'm not bothering others.

Ted

AMEN! I am right there with you. A little consideration and cognizance of your own body can go along way toward getting through a flight. I too am pooh-sized as is my wife. We always employ the techniques mentioned by tedhowe and never have noticed any issue.

One thing I have encountered that really disturbs me concerns long distance flights. My in-laws live on the left-coast and we live in NC. We always take the red-eye back so the trip does not seem so long. However there is always someone who insists on leaving the reading light on the entire night. They spend three quarters of the flight with their head bobing upand down asleep but refguse to turn off the light. Then they smirk if my daughter wakes due the light and cries or whimpers. Disrupts everyones sleep.

ducklite
12-19-2006, 02:59 PM
However there is always someone who insists on leaving the reading light on the entire night. They spend three quarters of the flight with their head bobing upand down asleep but refguse to turn off the light. Then they smirk if my daughter wakes due the light and cries or whimpers. Disrupts everyones sleep.

I used to work nights and so taking a redeye was a no-brainer. I used to read through the entire flight. I once had a UAL FA snap at me and tell me to turn off the light and go to sleep like everyone else. That really pissed me off. Sorry if my light bothered someone, but I was minding my own business reading a book during "my daytime." I wasn't going to turn the light off so I could sit in the dark twiddling my thumbs. Had I decided to take a nap, I would have turned it off though.

Anne

MycatlovesEeyore
12-19-2006, 03:06 PM
I used to work nights and so taking a redeye was a no-brainer. I used to read through the entire flight. I once had a UAL FA snap at me and tell me to turn off the light and go to sleep like everyone else. That really pissed me off. Sorry if my light bothered someone, but I was minding my own business reading a book during "my daytime." I wasn't going to turn the light off so I could sit in the dark twiddling my thumbs. Had I decided to take a nap, I would have turned it off though.

Anne

That is fine, but don't glare and smirk when the light either wakes my daughter or keeps her from going to sleep in the first place. That is the point I was trying to make.

Lewisc
12-19-2006, 03:08 PM
I read that a discount carrier in China calculated that each flush takes a half gallon of jet fuel. They ask passengers to use the bathroom before boarding and to restrict their intake of liquids on board.

I wasn't sure if the newspaper was making this up but it seesm to be true
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/12/go_before_you_g_1.php





I agree with most of the points, but I'm afraid I'm a frequant bathroom break offender. Some of us nervous fliers can't really help it. :blush:

(Not every half though, by any means, but at least every 2 - 3 hrs)

NotUrsula
12-19-2006, 03:10 PM
I just carry a small booklight. Less glare than the overhead light, and it nevers bothers anyone, no matter what time it is. I've got one on my laptop, too.

ducklite
12-19-2006, 04:27 PM
That is fine, but don't glare and smirk when the light either wakes my daughter or keeps her from going to sleep in the first place. That is the point I was trying to make.

I could care less if someone's kid is sleeping or not, as long as they aren't kicking my seat, trying to talk to me while I'm reading, screaming in my ear, etc. Otherwise it's not my business.

I wouldn't glare or smirk unless a kid was being an absolute brat and the parents were doing nothing to stop the behaviour--and I'm not talking about a crying child during takeoff or landing because their ears hurt, I'm talking about a three year old allowed to kick my seatback for 20 minutes straight, run up and down the aisles, lean over thier seat and try to make a basket by dropping thier green army men in my drink, etc.

Anne

antmaril
12-19-2006, 04:40 PM
If you want to sit at a 90 degree angle and rigid as a board in an unreclined seat, then that is your prerogative. "Reclining into my lap" is a huge exaggeration; seats only recline 6-10 inches, hardly into your lap. If this bothers you, then recline your seat and solve the problem. Most people recline their seats, I think it is expected.

Because I hate it so much, I just can't do it to the person behind me. I just can't.

CarolA
12-19-2006, 05:21 PM
what gets my goat is the people who see that Im 4 foot 10 and still expect me to magically stuff my carry- in in the compartment (thats 5 foot 5")


No if YOU cannot get it iun the overhead we expect you to CHECK IT!!!! (And I am not very tall and I can get my stuff in there as can one of my coworkers who is 4'3" Short is not an excuse!

nyfinfan
12-19-2006, 06:28 PM
I'm probably going to get flamed here, but my pet peeve is the large person sitting beside me who takes up half of my seat. Invariably, they get there before me, and lift the armrest completely so that they have more room (in other words, they can spill freely into my seat).

I do sympathize with them - these seats are not built for anyone weighing more than 150 lbs. That being said, I didn't pay half price for my seat, so why do I only end up with half a seat? I end up having to scrunch into half of the already ridiculously small space and end up with all kinds of kinks in my neck and shoulders.

I'm sorry, but some people really do need two seats. I don't know if they should be made to pay for the second seat or not - I'm not getting into that arguement - I just know that I shouldn't be expected to provide the extra space for them when I've paid for my space fair and square.


No Flames here either. From watching "Airline", aren't you allowed to put the armrest down if you want to. And if anyone encroaches the space over the armrest, they need to purchase another seat?

MycatlovesEeyore
12-20-2006, 11:32 AM
I could care less if someone's kid is sleeping or not, as long as they aren't kicking my seat, trying to talk to me while I'm reading, screaming in my ear, etc. Otherwise it's not my business.

I wouldn't glare or smirk unless a kid was being an absolute brat and the parents were doing nothing to stop the behaviour--and I'm not talking about a crying child during takeoff or landing because their ears hurt, I'm talking about a three year old allowed to kick my seatback for 20 minutes straight, run up and down the aisles, lean over thier seat and try to make a basket by dropping thier green army men in my drink, etc.

Anne

:sad2: :sad2: :sad2:

You keeping the light on disturbing them or them doing something disturbing you. Not sure I see the difference?

:sad2: :sad2: :sad2:

disneyldwjr
12-20-2006, 11:47 AM
:sad2: :sad2: :sad2:

You keeping the light on disturbing them or them doing something disturbing you. Not sure I see the difference?

:sad2: :sad2: :sad2:

I think the light being on when the person is reading is to be expected. The fact that it disturbs your children is an unfortunate situation, but, the pax with the light on does have a perfect right to have it on, just as they have the right to recline their seat, keep their try table up or down, go to the restroom, etc.
What I find hard to understand is why it is ok to keep the light on and disturb your kids is ok when it is being used but not ok when the person dozes off.
Does it disturb them less when it is being used?
As to Duckie's comments, well, I can sort of see her point. There is a large difference between someone keeping their light on and a child running amuk.
Keeping the light on is not misbehaving. Annoying other pax with a disruptive child is definitely disturbing and definitely in the category of misbehaving and not having consideration for others ( I suppose you could say the same about the light).
I find it difficult to expect someone to cater to anyone and alter their activities because someone cannot adapt to a given situation. This statement is made with the understanding that the behavior is within the bounds of being considerate. If a light disturbed me when I was sleeping, I just either wore a eye mask or covered my eyes with the blanket. I would never dream of asking someone to shut theirs off regardless of what state the other pax was in. They paid for that seat and that light is part of the seat area, ie: their space.

ducklite
12-20-2006, 11:54 AM
:sad2: :sad2: :sad2:

You keeping the light on disturbing them or them doing something disturbing you. Not sure I see the difference?

:sad2: :sad2: :sad2:

If I was on a daytime flight trying to sleep it would be just as rude to demand all lights off and shades down. I wouldn't do that. Instead I'd bring an eye mask if I had a problem with the light.

The light is provided so people can read during flight. Not everyone sleeps on the same schedule. There is nothing impolite about quietly reading with the light provided. Watching porn is rude. Reading a best seller is not. If I was trying to insist every light around me was on, then of course that would be patently rude.

If the parents know the light bothers the child and keeps them from sleeping, then they could bring along an eye mask or a lightweight blanket to cover their eyes with. Or take daytime flights.

Allowing children to act like miscreants is extremely rude, particularly in situations where people are confined and can't get away from them.

Anne

MycatlovesEeyore
12-20-2006, 12:59 PM
Ducklite, all I am saying is that the majority of people whom I have personally witnessed in the circumstance of taking an over-night flight and keeping the light on the duration of the flight have little regard for the disturbance they impose on the other travellers. These same people, again in my experience, are the ones who show the most displeasure when a child wakes up and cries due in large part to the light being on. It seems to me to be a very egocentric, me-me-me attitude, and that is why it bothers me.

ducklite
12-20-2006, 01:15 PM
Ducklite, all I am saying is that the majority of people whom I have personally witnessed in the circumstance of taking an over-night flight and keeping the light on the duration of the flight have little regard for the disturbance they impose on the other travellers. These same people, again in my experience, are the ones who show the most displeasure when a child wakes up and cries due in large part to the light being on. It seems to me to be a very egocentric, me-me-me attitude, and that is why it bothers me.

How do you think this predicament should be resolved? Do you really expect the person in their "day time" to turn off the light and sit in the dark to accomodate you in a place of public accomodation because you choose to travel at night when you know your children aren't sound sleepers?

On the flip side do you think that daytime travel should be with shades down and no lights on to accomodate those trying to sleep? Because you can't have it both ways.

Wouldn't it perhaps be more appropriate to travel during the daytime with your children so someone's airline supplied reading light wouldn't have the potential to bother them?

I'm not bothered by a child's cries as long as the parent is doing whatever it takes to soothe them back to sleep or quiet. It's the parent who ignores thier crying or rambunctious child who I find appalling.

Anne

MycatlovesEeyore
12-20-2006, 01:35 PM
How do you think this predicament should be resolved? Do you really expect the person in their "day time" to turn off the light and sit in the dark to accomodate you in a place of public accomodation because you choose to travel at night when you know your children aren't sound sleepers?

On the flip side do you think that daytime travel should be with shades down and no lights on to accomodate those trying to sleep? Because you can't have it both ways.



That is not what I am saying at all. If you in your personal decisions/actions intrude upon another person's "personal space", why should you be exempt from them imposing on yours? The last time I flew, the airline also supplied blankets and pillows. Does your light trump the pillow and the action it was designed for? Does the pillow trump your light and the action it was designed for? If you cannot have consideration for others, do not expect any in return. Everyone is confined in this space for a predetermined amount of time. A little two-way consideration is all it takes to make the voyage a little more bearable and that is all I ask.

antmaril
12-20-2006, 01:39 PM
A little two-way consideration is all it takes to make the voyage a little more bearable and that is all I ask.


This is why I can't recline the seat.

ducklite
12-20-2006, 01:45 PM
That is not what I am saying at all. If you in your personal decisions/actions intrude upon another person's "personal space", why should you be exempt from them imposing on yours? The last time I flew, the airline also supplied blankets and pillows. Does your light trump the pillow and the action it was designed for? Does the pillow trump your light and the action it was designed for? If you cannot have consideration for others, do not expect any in return. Everyone is confined in this space for a predetermined amount of time. A little two-way consideration is all it takes to make the voyage a little more bearable and that is all I ask.

I'm not asking anyone to not use the pillow and blanket. I'm not sure what your point is. Most travelers who need to have darkness to sleep bring a sleepmask, or don't book redeyes. Pillows are not just for sleeping. Many use them for lumbar support. Blankets are not just for sleeping. People use them because planes can be chilly. Many carriers don't even have pillows and blankets anymore. Does that mean no one is allowed to sleep? Of course not. Does it mean that travelers should expect complete darkness from other travelers? Of course not.

I'm not sure what type of consideration you expect from someone who is traveling during their daytime and wants to read to pass the time. What would you like that person to do?

Anne

disneyldwjr
12-20-2006, 01:56 PM
Ducklite, all I am saying is that the majority of people whom I have personally witnessed in the circumstance of taking an over-night flight and keeping the light on the duration of the flight have little regard for the disturbance they impose on the other travellers. These same people, again in my experience, are the ones who show the most displeasure when a child wakes up and cries due in large part to the light being on. It seems to me to be a very egocentric, me-me-me attitude, and that is why it bothers me.
How is it a very egocentric, me-me-me attitude to read with the light on during a red eye flight while you child tries to sleep?
I think what bothers me is the parent's "you must stop the world because my child is bothered by this" attitude that is so very very prevalent today.
Fact, the airlines' supply lights for illumination during flights. Fact, it is the space that you "own" for the duration of the flight. Fact, if it bothers someone that is unfortunate, truly, however, I see absolutely no reason to change my activities to accomodate someone who is bothered. I certainly would not expect someone to do it for me. Fact, the world does not revolve around you, me, your child, or anyone else. We all have to live in it and deal with issues that are bothersome.

MycatlovesEeyore
12-20-2006, 02:08 PM
I'm not asking anyone to not use the pillow and blanket. I'm not sure what your point is. Most travelers who need to have darkness to sleep bring a sleepmask, or don't book redeyes.

This statement is absurd. I suppose that is why all of the lights are turned off by the pilot during the red-eye flight? I suppose that is why no entertainment is offered such as an in-flight movie?

I'm not sure what type of consideration you expect from someone who is traveling during their daytime and wants to read to pass the time. What would you like that person to do?

I am asking that person to take off the tunnel-vision glasses and think about how their action is going to impact the others around them. This is not just the night-owl on the red-eye, but everyone. If you want to keep the light on, just be considerate and turn it off when you are finished reading. If the light cause a child to wake and they are confused, disoriented, and crying do not be upset because the child cries. If your child is upset, try your damnedest to calm and quiet them down. Do not just view the world in terms of what affects you or your wants. That is the consideration I am asking for.

MycatlovesEeyore
12-20-2006, 02:13 PM
Fact, if it bothers someone that is unfortunate, truly, however, I see absolutely no reason to change my activities to accomodate someone who is bothered.

The very definition of a me-me-me attitude.

ducklite
12-20-2006, 02:19 PM
This statement is absurd. I suppose that is why all of the lights are turned off by the pilot during the red-eye flight? I suppose that is why no entertainment is offered such as an in-flight movie?

They don't show a movie because *most* people would be sleeping---but sleeping is NOT a requirement, neither is sitting in darkness. If they were demanding that ALL people sleep, they wouldn't provide reading lights overhead for those who choose to use them.

I am asking that person to take off the tunnel-vision glasses and think about how their action is going to impact the others around them. This is not just the night-owl on the red-eye, but everyone. If you want to keep the light on, just be considerate and turn it off when you are finished reading.

Uh, I said earlier that if I chose to nap I would turn the light off.

If the light cause a child to wake and they are confused, disoriented, and crying do not be upset because the child cries.

Uh, I also said that I could understand a child crying and it doesn't upset me as long as the parent is actively comforting them.

If your child is upset, try your damnedest to calm and quiet them down.

That's all I'm asking for.

Do not just view the world in terms of what affects you or your wants. That is the consideration I am asking for.

I'm an extremely considerate person. I try to live my life to have the least impact on those around me when I'm in a place of public accomodation. But in the same breath, I won't be bullied by those who think the world revolves around them--and thier kids--when I'm minding my own business, using something that was provided for my comfort to have the least disturbance of those around me. The provide reading lights so they CAN turn the rest of the cabin lighting down. Seems to me that sleepers are already being accomodated in that respect.

Anne

bavaria
12-20-2006, 02:33 PM
Actually, the typical recline is about 4-6 inches. Regardless, reclining a seat is an appropriate use of the space you're given.

I usually bite my tongue and avoid the 'recline or not' arguments but not today.

For those of you who are so tense about not reclining your seat, I suspect that you are the leisure, once a year type traveller, who flies a few hours or less to get to WDW or some other destination.

While I don't recline on a CRJ or Dash 8 (and many of those seats DON'T recline) I will certainly recline my seat in 1st, Business, or Economy Plus seating.

I seriously doubt that those of you who protest would sit up straight on a 14 hour flight and not recline at all. If you had a 'lie flat' seat in business class, would you sit upright while all those around you slept flat? I doubt it.

My schedule means that I often don't much sleep other than on an airplane, and expecting me to sit totally upright in a seat designed to recline is unreasonable, especially when I am usually seating in a seat with ample leg room. (I mention this because a few months ago on a 6+ hour flight I was in first and had a passenger behind me griping the entire trip that my seat was reclined a few inches. Sorry, that argument doesn't work in 1st class.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but I find it interesting that the frequent flyers agree with the original statements made, while those who disagree are most likely the infrequent leisure traveller.

MycatlovesEeyore
12-20-2006, 02:36 PM
I try to live my life to have the least impact on those around me when I'm in a place of public accomodation. But in the same breath, I won't be bullied by those who think the world revolves around them--and thier kids--when I'm minding my own business.

Anne


I guess we are in agreement on that. I do not expect the world to revolve around me or my children. But I will not stand idly by and let it run me over either.

lost*in*cyberspace
12-20-2006, 02:39 PM
This statement is absurd. I suppose that is why all of the lights are turned off by the pilot during the red-eye flight? I suppose that is why no entertainment is offered such as an in-flight movie?

No, it is not. What is absurd is for you to expect that another PAX who does not want to sleep should have to turn off their overhead light because it is inconveniencing you or your family. If you can afford a plane ticket, you certainly should be able to afford a cheap pair of eyeshades.

NancyIL
12-20-2006, 02:41 PM
I agree with Barbara's list. And - I disagree with those who say one shouldn't recline their seats. Seats don't recline more than a few inches unless they are broken, and the person occupying the seat has every right to recline, if he/she so wishes.

bavaria
12-20-2006, 02:43 PM
I suppose that is why all of the lights are turned off by the pilot during the red-eye flight? I suppose that is why no entertainment is offered such as an in-flight movie?

On the red eye flights and long haul flights I fly, the cabin lights may be dimmed for part of the flight, but the individual lights are still functional.

And yes, there are often in-flight movies on red-eye flights.

Also, many airlines offer individual in-flight entertainment on their flights - would you expect your fellow passenger not to watch their personal video screen?

ducklite
12-20-2006, 02:46 PM
I guess we are in agreement on that. I do not expect the world to revolve around me or my children. But I will not stand idly by and let it run me over either.

Who is running you over? Because someone wants to read using an airline supplied overhead? That passenger has every right to do so, and frankly if it's so bothersome to you or your children, you should not take red-eyes. You can't expect people to not have their light on to read or work because you find it bothersome. It sounds to me like you ARE asking the world to revolve around you and your children because you CHOOSE to take flights at night KNOWING that your children can't sleep with the light on and then get upset beacuse someone doesn't operate under your timetable. Wow. Just wow. :sad2: :rolleyes:

Anne

disneyldwjr
12-20-2006, 02:51 PM
The very definition of a me-me-me attitude.
No, actually it is not. In keeping on topic here, I feel it downright absurd to have to sit in the dark, wide awake because your little one cannot sleep with a light on. And, if I happen to nod off with the light on, I am sorry, but, it certainly was not on purpose, it does happen that you sometimes drift of to sleeply land. As others have mentioned, you could invest in a sleep mask for her and your problem would be solved. I would NEVER expect someone to put out their light to accomodate me, why should I? I would never even ask.
When on public transportation you are going to run into something you don't like. You simply roll with the punches and get on with life.

spiceycat
12-20-2006, 02:56 PM
my big problem with air travel - are the people who are sick - who think it is their right to spread their germs around.

they sneeze and cough with no effort to cover their mouth or nose....

I have gotten sick the last time I flew - because of one these jerks sat down besides me. (and the airline had you can't travel with liquid soap at the time)

now if you are sick and flying because you have too - then please be kind to your fellow passengers and cover up.

I am not saying don't fly.

Lewisc
12-20-2006, 02:56 PM
Is it considered rude to turn off another passengers overhead light if it is obvious the passenger has been sleeping for more than a few minutes? I'm assuming the passenger is snoring, the book has fallen to the floor or other clear signs.

I've done the reverse and turned on the reading light for a passenger that couldn't easily reach the switch. In that case I ask but, when the need is obvious, I may be turning it on at almost the same time the passenger is saying yes or thank you.




Who is running you over? Because someone wants to read using an airline supplied overhead? That passenger has every right to do so, and frankly if it's so bothersome to you or your children, you should not take red-eyes. You can't expect people to not have their light on to read or work because you find it bothersome. It sounds to me like you ARE asking the world to revolve around you and your children because you CHOOSE to take flights at night KNOWING that your children can't sleep with the light on and then get upset beacuse someone doesn't operate under your timetable. Wow. Just wow. :sad2: :rolleyes:

Anne

ducklite
12-20-2006, 03:02 PM
Is it considered rude to turn off another passengers overhead light if it is obvious the passenger has been sleeping for more than a few minutes? I'm assuming the passenger is snoring, the book has fallen to the floor or other clear signs.

In that case I don't think it is rude. If they wake up and complain I'd just tell them "Sorry, I was simply trying to be helpful, I thought you were sleeping and didn't want your light to disturb you." If they were just sitting for a minute with their eyes closed then it would be very rude. I sometimes close my eyes for a minute or two while on a plane just to get some moisture into the old eyeballs. Of course I'm not snoring, and my head isn't lolling about, and I'm not drolling out of the corner of my mouth. :teeth: ;)

I've done the reverse and turned on the reading light for a passenger that couldn't easily reach the switch. In that case I ask but, when the need is obvious, I may be turning it on at almost the same time the passenger is saying yes or thank you.

I would do the same for someone who is unable to easily reach it--maybe they had a magazine in one hand and thier arm in a sling for example.

Anne

MycatlovesEeyore
12-20-2006, 03:18 PM
Who is running you over? Because someone wants to read using an airline supplied overhead? That passenger has every right to do so, and frankly if it's so bothersome to you or your children, you should not take red-eyes. You can't expect people to not have their light on to read or work because you find it bothersome. It sounds to me like you ARE asking the world to revolve around you and your children because you CHOOSE to take flights at night KNOWING that your children can't sleep with the light on and then get upset beacuse someone doesn't operate under your timetable. Wow. Just wow. :sad2: :rolleyes:

Anne

It is not the fact people fly with the lights on. It is the reaction they have if during the flight, my daughter wakes and creates a disturbance. I understand that you do not fall into this group, but these people are out there. Let me make something clear, my oldest (4 yrs) has made approximately eight cross-country trips and my youngest (18 mnths) has been on four of those. This did not happen on the vast majority of the flights. But on two flights where one of my girls did happen to wake, we received a very nasty look from the person with the light on. For the most part my girls can sleep through just about anything. But a deep sleep is almost impossible on a 737 or an MD80. If someone chooses to leave the light on for the duration of the red-eye, that is their option and right. However, a person should not be upset or make a very obvious show of displeasure when their action contributes to a situation they do not happen to like.

seashoreCM
12-20-2006, 03:46 PM
If you ask me, it is the frequent fliers who tend to be the most rude and inconsiderate. Maybe they feel that because of the total number of dollars their employers spent with that airline they should have more privileges. If you ask me, if any extra privileges should be given out, the privileges should go first to those who spent the most money on the ticket for that specific flight.

I think I will lay down the rules once and for all. Each passenger has the right to use the following:
1. The recline to the extent intended by the airline,
2. The reading light
3. The TV controls or other entertainment controls provided.
4. All of the remaining space above his seat and extending to an imaginary vertical surface passing through an imaginary line running down the center of the armrest on each side.

When the airline crew does not uphold these rules, the airline is contributing to rudeness.

If you beg to differ, how about bribing someone to exchange seats or otherwise give you what you want?

Why oh why the dirty looks? This is so counterproductive, the other person may decide to verify when the dirty look goes away before moving on to correct the problem.
Oh, and for short women: choose the aisle seat. You can toe your shoes off for a minute and stand on the seat cushion to put your carryon in the overhead. That's how most short people manage, just like we do in the grocery store.
I hope you don't mean standing on a lower shelf. The whole shelf assembly could come tumbling down on you, tin cans and all.

ducklite
12-20-2006, 03:56 PM
If you ask me, it is the frequent fliers who tend to be the most rude and inconsiderate. Maybe they feel that because of the total number of dollars their employers spent with that airline they should have more privileges.

I'm a frequent flyer who seldom travels for business these days. I pay for my own tickets. Right now I'm planning next years sojourns. All R/T:

MCO to ALB

MCO to PHL

MCO to Portland, OR (I don't know the airport code) via PHL, with possibly an open jaw to SEA

MCO to ORD via PHL

MCO to EWR

That takes me through June.

I try to be very considerate of my fellow travelers, and I expect the same in return.

Anne

NancyIL
12-20-2006, 04:16 PM
If you ask me, it is the frequent fliers who tend to be the most rude and inconsiderate. Maybe they feel that because of the total number of dollars their employers spent with that airline they should have more privileges. If you ask me, if any extra privileges should be given out, the privileges should go first to those who spent the most money on the ticket for that specific flight.



It's the business travelers/frequent-fliers who generally pay the most for their plane tickets for that specific flight! Leisure travelers usually book way ahead or when there's a sale. Business travelers often book at the last minute, and generally don't stay over a Saturday night.

Lewisc
12-20-2006, 04:27 PM
It's the business travelers/frequent-fliers who generally pay the most for their plane tickets for that specific flight! Leisure travelers usually book way ahead or when there's a sale. Business travelers often book at the last minute, and generally don't stay over a Saturday night.

That's a great general rule but flights to Orlando also have business travelers/frequent-fliers who are on vacation. Those fliers may be flying on a FF ticket or may have booked their vacation reservations early enough to get a deeply discounted fare.

bavaria
12-20-2006, 05:28 PM
If you ask me, it is the frequent fliers who tend to be the most rude and inconsiderate.

I take it that was directed towards me, and I can assure you that I have learned how to be courteous on an aircraft.

I would counter with the comment that infrequent fliers are often unaware of how their behaviour impacts others. I can board and stow my bag in seconds, retrieve my blanket and pilllow, and nod off. I pass through security quickly and effiently, not delaying my fellow travellers. I don't block the aisle and bring more than my fair share of carry on luggage.

I follow all of your 'rules' for airline courtesy.

I even advised my seatmate this week that I was getting over the flu as there were many free seats; he thanked me and moved across the aisle, after making sure that I was feeling ok. And yes, I took as much medication as safely possible to ensure that I did not cough excessively.

ExPirateShopGirl
12-20-2006, 06:59 PM
ok... I fly weekly. Sometimes twice weekly. Always for free. I am always courteous to my fellow passengers no matter how much or little they paid. On the days I work and don't fly, I'm in an airport. I see some of the most inappropriate behavior (not to mention traveling clothes) on a routine basis. It's almost an effort not to shake my head as I pass through the terminal enroute to my daily Starbucks fix. It's even more fascinating than people-watching at MK. I digress.

My pet peeve is pets. Leave sparky and fluffy at home, people. Your pet doesn't want to travel, and no one wants to make intimate contact with your pet in the gate area because you think it's cruel the airline/airport requires you to keep your dog crated while you wait to board. Neither does anyone want to sit near you or your pet onboard. Find a nice kennel or friend to house pochie while you vacation. Using a pet as an accessory is so 2004... (end of rant)


:sunny:

seashoreCM
12-20-2006, 07:52 PM
>>> ... who tend to be ...

I take it that was directed towards me.
Not correct. Except that what inspired me to make the comment was ... here it comes:
I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but I find it interesting that the frequent flyers agree with the original statements made, while those who disagree are most likely the infrequent leisure traveller.
ok My pet peeve is pets. Leave sparky and fluffy at home, people. Your pet doesn't want to travel, and no one wants to make intimate contact with your pet in the gate area because you think it's cruel the airline/airport requires you to keep your dog crated while you wait to board.
Poll question: Does your employer consider kenneling Fluffy an acceptable re-imbursable travel expense?

Lizziejane
12-20-2006, 09:35 PM
>>> ... who tend to be ...

Poll question: Does your employer consider kenneling Fluffy an acceptable re-imbursable travel expense?

No, I can honestly say my employer wouldn't re-imburse that expense. If I took the job knowing travel was involved, what to do with Fluffy is my problem, not theirs.

Having said that, I do find it strange that pets are now allowed onboard in a cage. I have two kids allergic to dogs. Sure hope they don't end up with Fluffy by their feet next month...I'm assuming someone would tell us before take-off that there's a fur-ball beside us.

And sorry, can't resist - one more pet peeve - the traveller who takes up more than their fair share of the overhead bins. I know I have checked and re-checked this several times since the last security hoop-la. Air Canada states one carry on, plus one purse. So how come some guy gets on before me with two guitar cases and a backpack, and then proceeds to take up all available room over my seat and about 2 rows behind us? When I mentioned it to the flight attendant, I was politely instructed to place my bag under the seat in front of me. Not a reasonable solution, seeing as how I now have no leg room at all. I was basically told, too bad, so sad, no more room available. I've always preferred to board last - why sit in a tin can longer than necessary? - but now I have this irresistable urge to trample over everyone in my attempt to "get there first" and secure my alloted overhead storage before someone encroaches on my space!

seashoreCM
12-20-2006, 10:51 PM
one more pet peeve - the traveller who takes up more than their fair share of the overhead bins. ... states one carry on, plus one purse. So how come some guy gets on before me with two guitar cases and a backpack, and then proceeds to take up all available room over my seat and about 2 rows behind us? When I mentioned it to the flight attendant, I was politely instructed to place my bag under the seat in front of me. Not a reasonable solution, seeing as how I now have no leg room at all. I was basically told, too bad, so sad, no more room available. I've always preferred to board last - why sit in a tin can longer than necessary? - but now I have this irresistable urge to trample over everyone in my attempt to "get there first" and secure my alloted overhead storage before someone encroaches on my space!
Repeat: When the airline crew does not uphold the rules, the airline is contributing to rudeness.

Is it time for a mutiny, several others re-arranging the bins to better share the space and telling the offender to check some of his stuff?

Heard on a radio talk show someone talking about rudeness at shopping malls and the idea of a code of conduct. Many other places including airplanes could use something like that with sanctions taken against offenders (loss of frequent flyer miles or even blacklisting in the case of airlines).

Mysteria
12-21-2006, 03:24 AM
:lmao: :lmao: Some of you kill me. If only you had real problems! Oh and before you say you do then think about those and compare them to what you are talking about here. :)

ducklite
12-21-2006, 03:44 AM
No, I can honestly say my employer wouldn't re-imburse that expense. If I took the job knowing travel was involved, what to do with Fluffy is my problem, not theirs.

I have a friend whose employer (major corporation) paid her pet sitter expenses when she had to travel. I always found that odd. I'm with you, if I took a job knowing travel was involved, my pet sitter costs are my problem.

Having said that, I do find it strange that pets are now allowed onboard in a cage. I have two kids allergic to dogs. Sure hope they don't end up with Fluffy by their feet next month...I'm assuming someone would tell us before take-off that there's a fur-ball beside us.

Pets have always been allowed onboard. Only cats and dogs (Delta will also take ferrets) and they must have health certificate with proof of rabies vax issued by vet no more than ten days prior to commencement of travel, must fit in carrier that fits under seat and be able to turn around, no more than two pets per cabin section, $50-100 each way extra charge, and must have advance reservation. There are also age restrictions and some other techincal things. The carrier won't generally make an announcement. You need to let them know about the allergies so they can reseat you further away if there are going to be pets onboard.

And sorry, can't resist - one more pet peeve - the traveller who takes up more than their fair share of the overhead bins. I know I have checked and re-checked this several times since the last security hoop-la. Air Canada states one carry on, plus one purse. So how come some guy gets on before me with two guitar cases and a backpack, and then proceeds to take up all available room over my seat and about 2 rows behind us? When I mentioned it to the flight attendant, I was politely instructed to place my bag under the seat in front of me. Not a reasonable solution, seeing as how I now have no leg room at all. I was basically told, too bad, so sad, no more room available. I've always preferred to board last - why sit in a tin can longer than necessary? - but now I have this irresistable urge to trample over everyone in my attempt to "get there first" and secure my alloted overhead storage before someone encroaches on my space!

On the other hand, I had a NASTY TSA agent give me a hard time because I had three carry-on items as I went through security. One was my rather small purse, which I had taken out of my roll-on (a 19" model that fits "wheels in" in every overhead) to get my wallet. He made me put the purse back in the roll-on before I showed him my ID so I could just walk three feet from him and take it back out to put my wallet away. That was a person who A. lacked common sense, and B. shouldn't have been dealing with the public.

Just an FYI, the guy with the two guitars might have also bought two seats, for which he would have had the right to bring on both guitars and another bag. I have several musician friends who do this when they fly.

Anne

ducklite
12-21-2006, 03:49 AM
Is it time for a mutiny, several others re-arranging the bins to better share the space and telling the offender to check some of his stuff?


Read above post. Musicians often buy two seats to allow them double carry-on's so they don't have to check irreplaceable guitars. It's a lot less expensive to buy a second seat and show up for your gig in Milwaukee with your instruments, than check the instruments and have the airline lose or damage them, and miss a gig.

If you go b*tching to the carrier, you better have your facts straight. The carriers would much rather have the musician carry on the guitars (or trumpets, violins, cellos, etc.) than check them due to the extra care they have to give in handling them.

Anne

delilah
12-21-2006, 06:29 AM
>>>

Poll question: Does your employer consider kenneling Fluffy an acceptable re-imbursable travel expense?

Having traveled to CME meetings since I started my medical practice in 1991, the answer to this is "No". Nor is any additional expense relating to child care, even though after care at home at my son's school is $42/wk, and babysitting in the hotel room is $15/hr to attend a dinner associated with a conference. This is why I bring my husband along. Actually, my hospital is very particular in this respect. They will downgrade the room rate to the lowest cost theoretically available for the conference, even if it wasn't available at the time I made my reservation. One of my coworlers had a major meltdown over the fact the hospital wouldn't reimburse her and her husband (both doctors) who submitted the costs associated with a second room so the grandmother could babysit the kid during the conference, which both attended. If she had asked me, I could have told her that they wouldn't have paid for an extra room if they wouldn't even pay for a room with two beds in it to accomodate my husband and son.

bavaria
12-21-2006, 06:58 AM
>>> ... who tend to be ...


Not correct. Except that what inspired me to make the comment was ... here it comes:


Poll question: Does your employer consider kenneling Fluffy an acceptable re-imbursable travel expense?

If you go back and read this thread, CarolA, Ducklite, Expirateshopgirl, and a few other frequent flyers agreed with most of what was said in the article. That doesn't make us rude, just more experienced. I simply commented that the frequent flyers seem to agree, and made no judgement on their behaviour or the behaviour of the leisure traveller.

I'm pointing out that your comment about frequent flyers was insulting to some of the very regular posters here who try to be helpful, and was a very broad generalization.

Re your kennel question - I agree that the employer shouldn't pay kennel costs just as they don't pay childcare costs for employees who are required to travel, but some people do negotiate such benefits. One of my predecessors also travelled weekly with a dog (which I think is unfair to the dog and fellow passengers)

I did not generalize or make the assumption that leisure travellers are polite and frequent flyers are rude, or vice versa.

bavaria
12-21-2006, 07:06 AM
Repeat: When the airline crew does not uphold the rules, the airline is contributing to rudeness.

Is it time for a mutiny, several others re-arranging the bins to better share the space and telling the offender to check some of his stuff?



FAs DO often tell people to check their carryons; they do however try and minimize confrontation before a flight takes off, so they won't always get involved in every dispute. If it's an obviously violation, then yes, I have seen them take action. On full flights they often make repeated announcements and stop people as they board with too many/too large carryons.

I have a colleague to 'reports' to the FA when a passenger loads their items in a bin above row 2 and sits back in row 20, leaving the passengers who board later with no space.

seashoreCM
12-21-2006, 07:31 AM
Musicians often buy two seats to allow them double carry-on's \But wouldn't the instruments be strapped into the second seat?

And the musician described might need 3 seats because of 3 items that, although they may have fit the definition of carry-on, probably did not fit the definition of personal item.

ducklite
12-21-2006, 07:35 AM
\But wouldn't the instruments be strapped into the second seat?

Not neccesarily.

Anne

disneyldwjr
12-21-2006, 09:03 AM
\But wouldn't the instruments be strapped into the second seat?

And the musician described might need 3 seats because of 3 items that, although they may have fit the definition of carry-on, probably did not fit the definition of personal item.

Musical instruments are as much a personal item as a laptop or camera.

disneyldwjr
12-21-2006, 09:08 AM
"Having said that, I do find it strange that pets are now allowed onboard in a cage. I have two kids allergic to dogs. Sure hope they don't end up with Fluffy by their feet next month...I'm assuming someone would tell us before take-off that there's a fur-ball beside us."

They have always been allowed on board, and they are not in a cage, they are in a carrier specifically designed for air travel.
They do not announce pets on board,but, I am sure you would notice the animals in the boarding area.
I am very allergic to perfume, but, no one announces that either. LOL
One way to assure you won't be seated anywhere near someone's beloved pet (not fur ball) is to fly SWA, they don't fly animals, except for the human species.

ducklite
12-21-2006, 09:29 AM
One way to assure you won't be seated anywhere near someone's beloved pet (not fur ball) is to fly SWA, they don't fly animals, except for the human species.

Except services dogs who have every right to be there.

Anne

disneyldwjr
12-21-2006, 02:51 PM
Except services dogs who have every right to be there.

Anne

Right you are, and I TOTALLY agree that they have a perfect right to be there. And.....they dont have to be in a carrier.

ExPirateShopGirl
12-21-2006, 06:58 PM
Service dogs (along with their handicapped owners) have every right to be onboard. They are highly trained animals who behave better than some adults ;) and are as necessary as medication and ambulatory devices. Service animals are never required to be in carriers in the cabin of any aircraft or inside any public building. I'm talking about bulgy-eyed hamster-like dogs that, while the size of a small handbag, would probably prefer not to be treated as such.

And no... my employer (whose travel reimbursement policies are incredibly generous) doesn't provide reimbursement for pet care, nor would i expect them to.

seashoreCM
12-21-2006, 09:41 PM
Musical instruments are as much a personal item as a laptop or camera.
Don't eveyone just bring your guitars on board on Delta to put them in the overhead bins. Delta's baggage dimension limits don't pass most encased guitars as "carry-ons" let alone as "personal items".

But many kinds of instruments can be strapped into separately purchased seats.

Selling guaranteed overhead bin space could be a big cash cow for airlines. And the rules could be changed to allow guitars, violins, etc. in purchased bin space.

bavaria
12-21-2006, 10:27 PM
Selling guaranteed overhead bin space could be a big cash cow for airlines. And the rules could be changed to allow guitars, violins, etc. in purchased bin space.
I doubt that any responsible musician would risk damage to their instrument by placing it anywhere where an item can be placed on top and thereby damage the instrument.

I have seen many guitars come on board and if no seat was purchased they go in the closet.

Lizziejane
12-21-2006, 10:28 PM
Don't eveyone just bring your guitars on board on Delta to put them in the overhead bins. Delta's baggage dimension limits don't pass most encased guitars as "carry-ons" let alone as "personal items".



I don't believe guitar cases would pass any airlines limits for carry on. If someone purchases an extra seat to carry this sort of thing on board, fair enough. I would just kindly like to request that you please be sure to put the guitars on your extra seat, and not use up my overhead space instead!

bavaria
12-21-2006, 10:44 PM
Delta policy (http://www.delta.com/traveling_checkin/baggage/special_baggage/fragile_bulky/musical_instruments/index.jsp)

US Airways policy (http://www.usairways.com/awa/content/traveltools/baggage/specialitems.aspx#music)

AA has musical instruments under a special policy Specialty Items
There are exceptions, special rules, and/or packing instructions that apply to some specialty items. Examples of these include duffel bags used by military personnel and certain musical instruments. To determine if your item has special excess charges (or is free in place of a 62 in/157 cm bag within the free baggage allowance), please contact an American Airlines representative at 1-800-433-7300.

I don't really understand what the debate is about pets and musical instruments; each airline has a clearly outlined policy on their website and if anyone has questions, that is where they should look for information.

Just as with other carryon items, YMMV. Sometimes passengers board with bags larger than the posted exceptions; musical instruments are no different. If the cabin crew cannot accomodate the bag or instrument, it gets checked.

Seems pretty clear to me.

bicker
12-22-2006, 05:00 AM
each airline has a clearly outlined policy on their website and if anyone has questions, that is where they should look for information.There are always some people who feel that written policies are for other people to comply with. :rolleyes:

goofy4tink
12-22-2006, 07:04 AM
Regarding the pets onboard issue....I had to have my ds's cat on board with me last year. I was bringing the cat to him after he moved to Florida...ds not the cat had moved!!! Delta knew the cat was there, I paid extra for the cat to be there. I chose seats that had no one near me so that no one would be bothered by the cat if it had issues flying. However, when I checked the seating the day I flew, they had put people all around me. When I got to Logan, I asked the gate attendent if I could change my seat because I had the cat with me. She was a bit put out but when I explained that I didn't want to be near anyone who may be bothered by animal dander or cat crying, she understood and put me in the waaaaay back with no one around me. Yes, I realize that the animal dander does travel through the air vents but I'm sure it was better to not have anyone around me directly.

I have yet to see that those overhead lights are bright enough to bother anyone. For those who choose to travel on the red-eyes, they have to realize that there may be some who are on the same flight that will want to read, hence the light will be on. That's common sense. To expect others to keep their lights off in order for children to sleep is a bit over the top. In fact, I would think that if a child woke up, disoriented, the light being on would actually help calm them, rather than waking up to darkness. Most kids can fall asleep with some light on. Reclining seats??? Well, I have to say I have never reclined mine. I hate the thought of having my head back in someone's lap...so to speak. But then again, I'm not on to many coast to coast flights anymore. And my back is better off is I just have a few pillows scrunched in there for support.
Good manners go a long way in air travel. It's stressful enough without having to deal with those who need the perfect scenario. Airtravel is not perfect. We all need to make allowences for our fellow travelers.