The Future Of Disney

[tigger1960]

THE DISNEY CORPORATION HAS BEEN MILKING THE CASH COW (RESORT GUEST AND DAILY VISITORS) FOR 30 YEARS THAT MAYBE THE COWS ARE STARTING TO DRY UP. IF DISNEY WANTS PEOPLE TO START COMING BACK TO IT'S MAGICAL PLACE THEN MAYBE THEY SHOULD TAKE THE PEOPLE THAT PUT THEM ON THE FINANCIAL MAP TO BEGIN WITH IN THEIR THOUGHTS WHEN IT COMES TO OPENING OR CLOSING CERTAIN AREAS OF THE WORLD. WALT HIMSELF WANTED HIS WORLD TO BE A MAGICAL PLACE FOR FAMILIES TO COME AND FORGET ABOUT THE OUTSIDE WORLD FOR AWHILE. BY ALL THE CUTBACKS AND THE CLOSING OF SEVERAL ATTRACTIONS AND RESORTS, THE MAGIC IS SOMEHOW STARTING TO DISAPPEAR. :(

[STOFFER]

I am NO FAN of Eisner, and I agree that WDW has suffered some as a result of some of his decisions.
I do think that Disney management may stop taking us for granted as a result of the present slowdown in park visitors. I think the cutbacks were the wrong way to go, and if enough people cancel their reservations they will rethink their position.
I am holding off going to WDW until some things change . I refuse to spend money where I am treated like a chump.
I think that things could get much better very quickly. The return of some e-ride nights is a good sign. Some new attractions, including Mission Space, sound exciting. I'm also glad they closed that awful Imagination ride. I hope they replace it with something good. Epcot needs it badly.
My family has made the trip from Missouri to WDW about once a year for the last eighteen years. We probably won't go in 2002. Maybe by 2003, Eisner & company will have figured out that you don't show your appreciation to guests by cutting perks & rides.

[SAKPEG99OKW]

You guys make me laugh. First of all how much do you want to get for your 44.00 a day. Is the castle enough, maybe the castle and Space Mountain. When will enough be enough? They might have canceled EE so what. So you get into the park at 9:00 instead of 8:00. You guys remind me of the people who mope around WDW with Disney rage. Never happy at anything.

Second, do you really think Walt could have done any better? Disney has grown beyond his wildest dreams, I'm sure. This is one of the top 5 companies in the world. They have to worry about making money, or else there is no company. What company strives to break even or worse loose money? The cut backs don't bother me a bit. If you read the trip report board they don't seem to be bothering any body else either.

My family for one will be back in the world Dec 2002, and loving every minute of it. So yes, you can stay home and mope, while we will be riding Space Mountain for the 3rd time in the same day.

Just remember for all your negativity their will always be 10 more with positive thoughts.


:pinkbounc :pinkbounc :pinkbounc :pinkbounc

[Planogirl]

I dislike the cuts that were being made PRIOR to September 11. Those are the ones that I keep remembering. I realize that Disney is in a tough situation right now like a lot of corporations (and me!) but I believe that many of these cuts were about to happen anyway.

I don't agree that there are 10 positive people around to replace each negative person because the gate totals would have gone up a lot rather than down or flattening out as the case may be. I think that we all have to decide what is financially prudent for ourselves and for our families, and there are certainly other vacation venues we can choose if we wish to that might be more worthwhile for some of us. We can enjoy nature, history, gambling, cruising or whatever we like!

I will continue to go, when I can, because I enjoy the place too much to stop. But the magic of Disney has lost a lot of its sparkle for me. And that is JMHO and not meant to make anyone laugh.

[STOFFER]

SAKPE, I'm not trying to pick a fuss here, and I hope you DO have a GREAT!!! Disney vacation, but I have a question: You claim an hour or so won't have an effect on your vacation. Would two hours a day? Or three? How about four? At what point would you decide that you are no longer getting a good value for your vacation dollars? Would you pay $44 a day for a glimpse of the castle? Or one ride on Space Mountain? If so, more power to you. I prefer to hold Disney to a higher standard than you do.
I think we both love WDW. We just don't agree about how Mikey Eisner is running the company. Could Walt have done better? He already has. After all, they don't call it Eisner World.

[fklhou]

Great post STOFFER. I love Disney also but also feel that Disney has not handled this cutbacks as well as they should have. For example, the elimination of EE was very poorely handled in my opinion. I also agree that for now, EE may not be as important when the crowds are down. However, Disney decided to present the new character caravan and a subsitute for EE when this is just plain silly.

I hope that Disney does listen and make some of the changes that have been suggested such as bringing back EE when the crowds justify it. We are DVD members and have reservations during spring break week. I hope that this mess is cleared by then.

Please understand that each person has to make their own decision as to whether the package is acceptable to them. My wife is trying to get me to go on Walt's birthday weekend because it is also my birthday and I am currently resisting this.

[nats]

Eisner has to give us more bang for the buck than they are giving us. The only way to get the point accross is not to go, even though we agree that Disneyworld is the best vacation place in the world.

[Eeyore2U]

Bang for the buck? Who gives us bang for the buck? I live near Canobie Lake Park (less then a mile), a nice LITTLE amusement park in NH, and haven't been in at least 7 years. We went to Busch Garden in Williamsburg in 1996 and won't go back. Went to IOA last Feb and thought it was not worth the money we spent. Went through it in about 3 hours and were starving since none of the food places were open. IMO, for the money I spend, WDW is a value. Since we travel at off times, the hours, lack of ee and no enighhts don't affect us. But if you want to tell me paying the prices at these other parks is more cost effective I would question your math.

[Carl]

When the cuts make the lines excessive all day long at all parks. I can work around lines be going to different rides or different parks. When these attempts don't work anymore, I will stop going to WDW. I am a crowd-o-phobic. I do not enjoy rides that require me to wait a long time to get onto. That's just me. Maybe others have a higher tolerance for long waits.

[Planogirl]

I know of people who just adore roller coasters and travel all around the country to ride the different ones. They have no interest in the Disney parks. I also know people who have been to WDW and have no interest in going back. They travel to Europe or the Caribbean when they can. A good friend is an avid scuba diver and she travels around to do that.

It's all a matter of taste after all. Odd taste IMO but they certainly have that right and I don't question their choices, at least not to their faces. :D

[wdw4us2]

__________________________________________________ _________________________

I can tell you when I'll stop going, when the cuts make the lines excessive all day long

__________________________________________________ _________________________

Guess what? They already have! Talk to anyone who has been there recently. DH and I were there this past weekend (as we have for the past three years) and the lines at MK and MGM were totally unmanageable. Fast Pass return times were for a minimum of 3 hours after you got your pass. FP return lines were long and not kept moving as they usually are. IMHO, EE was going to be eliminated anyway and Disney just used 9/11 as an excuse for further cuts to their resort guests, AP holders, DVC members, etc. You'd be surprised how many people said they felt duped after getting to WDW and finding out there was no EE. All of those I talked to said they would not stay onsite until EE was restored.

[raidermatt]

With the exception of this holiday week, and Jersey week, the reports have consistently been that the weekends are crowded and weekdays are extremely slow.

Mr. Disney did a beautiful job of creating so many parks, movies, characters, etc. that I and my family hold very dear to our hearts. However, the simple fact is that if Walt were in charge today, he would have had to adapt to the changing times or Disney would have been swallowed up long ago. The value of the Disney name is really unmeasurable. Since stock price is very measurable, Disney is always a prime target for takeover. Simply remaining profitable is not enough to keep this from happening. Disney must run its business like any other corporation, yet keep its core values. This is not easy to do. Without the cutbacks, profits would fall further, and the stock price would fall. The further it falls, the cheaper a buy Disney and its parts become.

The alternative is having the entire corporation swallowed up by an AOL/Time Warner, or have the pieces chopped up and sold to the likes of Six Flags, Busch, AOL/TW, etc.

Even in these tough times, Disney is offering more for the dollar than any other competitor. They are committed to continuing this. EE is gone? If you are put off enough by this to cancel a trip, one would have to seriously question your motives for going in the first place. DL used to be closed on Mondays, and there was no other Disney park to go to. What if Mr. Eisner did that today? He would be further villified and accused of taking away the Magic. Yet Mr. Disney himself used to close his park on Mondays.

Just as family operated sports franchises cannot compete with the corporate giants, the old Disney way of running the company cannot compete with the other entertainment giants. Disney has done a lot more than anyone else has to build its Magic. FOUR parks in one resort in Florida! Two in SoCal! Tokyo, China, Paris, etc. There has been tremendous growth and the Magic now reaches more than ever. But attendance begins to drop with the economy, then plummets with the economy, and some say they don't feel the Magic anymore because EE is gone??? How would you feel if AOL/TW bought the Magic and plastered a big picture of Porky Pig on Cinderella's castle? Mr. Disney didn't have to worry about that. Mr. Eisner does.

I'm not saying I agree with everything Mr. Eisner does, or even that there might not be a better person for the job out there somewhere. But the parks have been hit extremely hard over the last few months, and there was no way to predict it. Some may have forecasted the economy would weaken to this point, but NOBODY thought it would happen in the blink of an eye on 9/11. Disney has not closed any parks, as most other companies would have. They are all still open 7 days a week, every week. They are handling this in a much more customer friendly way than anybody else would have, and they are doing a good job of balancing this with their need to cut costs.

If you don't feel the Magic because you can't get into the park early, you never really felt it in the first place.

[Eeyore2U]

raidermatt,

Very well said.

Thanks

[Planogirl]

I don't think that most of us said that we didn't feel the magic any more. At least I didn't. I simply feel that the magic has been a bit tarnished. I don't believe for a second that this is only due to 9-11. I recall that this discussion was ongoing LONG before 9-11. Disney was already making cuts, the question is how many would have been made without 9-11.

I think it's rather unfair to decide that those who don't agree with a certain perception have no sense of what constitutes Disney magic. I've been going long enough to remember how things once were and yes, I do remember when the parks closed earlier and there was no early entry. I also remember quite well when prices were reasonable too but I don't expect to go back to those days.

Oh, I definitely don't want to see Porky Pig on the side of the castle. Now, Sylvester the Cat would be another matter however. ;)

[JeffJewell]

If you are put off enough by this to cancel a trip, one would have to seriously question your motives for going in the first place. ...at this time of year, the parks have always had shorter hours, but Surprise Mornings offset that and made this time of year a good one in which to visit. With EE cut, making a trip now is relativly less attractive than it once was. Questioning whether one should spend thousands of dollars now, when you know your options will be limited by these cuts, or waiting until you can get the value you've come to expect in a Disney vacation for those dollars, seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable motive for the possible cancellation of a trip.you never really felt it in the first place Golly, but that's a judgey and dismissive thing to say.

Jeff

[All Aboard]

you never really felt it in the first place.I don't think you know the folks around these parts too well. Stick around, soon you'll realize just how much we know of and are consumed by the Magic.

[LarryM]

Just a thought about EE. Disney has said that guests wanted the character caravan. Thats well and good but I guess we did'nt wnat it seven days a week like EE, becauses there is no character caravan on saturday. So don't try to tell me the guests wanted it just own up to the fact that you are cutting back to save money not because we asked for it.

[Lucky4me]

Raidermatt,
If it were JUST ee being cancelled, JUST one show eliminated in the parks, JUST one park with shortened hours, cancelled parades and fireworks, JUST one restaurant closing, JUST one resort closing or JUST a little of the magic being tarnished, I'd be okay with it. Unfortunately, all of these things combined make for very bad business. Disney is not taking care of its customers the way they have in the past. This will not be profitable for them in the future.....its very logical. Why can't they see this?

If they keep cutting with a hatchet instead of a surgical knife, you will be in the minority very soon......

I love Disney very much, I've felt the magic many times. Unfortunately they are not just competing with other theme parks but with themsleves and their past history. Until I see some of that "old" Disney back, along with some positive changes and less cutbacks, I will be vacationing elsewhere.

[Another Voice]

When was the last time a major corporation cut its way back into creativity? It seems that the cost containment cuts have been going on for more than three years now – yet the stock price never moved. Ever. What else needs to go before this magic point is reached?

And if things need to be cut, why are the company’s customers the only ones to see the effects. What fraction of a percent do the cost savings from eliminating early entry contribute to the purchase price of Fox Family? Are the reduction in labor hours saved by shuttering the ‘Carousel of Progress’ enough to offset the $30 million dollars the company is spending on ‘Sorority Boys’: next quarter’s contribution to Disney’s long line of money-losing gross-out comedy flicks? Have you seen the stunning new ABC headquarters building the now graces the Burbank Lot – you should because Beastly Kingdom paid for it.

The cuts themselves are not the issue. The questions are about the company’s priorities and the value it chooses to give to its guests. Parks scattered all over the world are nice, but I can only visit one at a time. I base my judgment of value one what I’m able to see and do, not one the investment potential Disney stock holders may receive. Why is there less to do in the Magic Kingdom today than there was ten years ago – despite more than doubling the ticket price? The point of my vacation is not to fund the development of Hong Kong Disneyland or to prop up executive bonuses – the point of my vacation is to give an enjoyable experience to my family.

Lack of investment, alienating a core customer base, failure to develop new product – those are going to affect the stock price more than any cost cutting could.

[wdw4us2]

I don't believe you are looking at the big picture. First of all, I do know what the "magic" is and have been going to WDW many times each year since 1972. Those of us who have consistently followed the "goings on" of the Walt Disney Co. and its theme parks particularly have seen many alarming things as of late and BEFORE 9/11. The Company has been bleeding the Theme Parks of $$ for many years to prop up sagging parts of the Company like the Anaheim Angels, The Mighty Ducks, ABC, etc. The reason it is so disturbing to me now is that the Company is using 9/11 as an excuse to make up for their bad financial decisions which took place before then. I and my family will continue to go to WDW, it is just sad to see what it is becoming. It also concerns me because not only are we WDW fans, we are AP holders, DVC Members, and Disney stockholders.

[All Aboard]

All right AV, statistical check time:Why is there less to do in the Magic Kingdom today than there was ten years ago – despite more than doubling the ticket price? While I agree with the sentiment of your post, I think your numbers are a little off.

In November of 1991, a one day pass to MK was $33, today it's $48. That's an average annual growth rate of 3.75%, not much over inflation during the same period.

[seashoreCM]

It will be a sad day if Disney World is split up, Coronado Springs to Marriott, Dsney-MGM studios really go to MGM, Magic Kingdom to Six Flags, or whatever.

Part of the magic is that is all operated in a uniform high quality manner.

There were plans for adding two more theme parks, extending the monorail, etc. With those plans postponed and a few things cut back here and there, there is still a tremendous amount of things to do at Disney World.

And, with attendance down, renting POFQ to the Army as an extension of Shades of Green is a profitable move.

More Disney tips:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

9/65 Disneyland
3/75 (World Inn* off I4 near DD)
4/85 (Kon-Tiki* on 192)
'80s Disneyland once or twice
7/94 POR
9/97 ASMu
11/98 ASMu
12/98 (Knights Inn on 192)
9/99 ASMo
12/00 ASSp
9/01 ASSp
11/01 ASSp
*no longer exists

Extending the monorail is not to add to the magic. One bus with one driver typically carries at most 60 people and the labor cost goes higher stuck in Downtown Disney traffic.

[raidermatt]

If you don't feel the Magic because you can't get into the park early, you never really felt it in the first place.

While I stand-by this statement, I apologize for the abruptness of it. I really only meant that if the elimination of EE causes someone to not go to Disney, they must have been waffleing anyway.

Some have pointed out that this was just the straw that broke..., and I can understand that. However, EE is/was a perk for resort guests to help them deal with the crowds. Since the crowds are down, that offsets the smaller amount of park time. I will say that when crowds return to pre-recession levels, I would expect to see EE return. Personally, I don't use it and probably never will, but it appears the useage of it justifies it when crowds are large.

As for previous cuts, true, they began before 9/11. But to say that because a cut was made in March 9/11 had no impact if ludicrous. Airports were shutdown, and airline travel is still down. Tourism in general is down. Yes, it was dropping before 9/11. But the curve went from a gradual decline to a freefall in one day. You just can't say that this does not have an impact on a business.

Some are saying the cuts have gone on for years and its bad business, yet attendance continued to rise until the recession hit. Perhaps good and bad business have different defintions to some of us? Yes, there can come a point where the cuts do hurt attendance, but there is no evidence to support that happening prior to the recession.

The purchase of ABC was not a bad decsion, but the programming direction was. The Fox Family deal was just completed, and hasn't played itself out yet. If ABC does return to its family-oriented comedy roots, as they say they will, ABC Family fits in quite nicely. ESPN is doing quite well. The sports franchises have turned sour, and Disney is looking to get out. They just aren't going to give them away however, and will sell when the price is right. If baseball contracts as they plan to, Disney will be bought out.

[roymccoy]

Can't you understand that some people are pissed off?? You keep acting like we can't have a bad thought about Disney. Get the pixie dust out of your eyes! Disney's cutting TOO MUCH right now and people are going to take notice of it. You can cheerlead all you want but it ain't gonna change the fact that there are many people who are not going to blindly put up with this. I have been a Disney supporter for all of my life until now. I was RAISED at Disneyland. My parents took us once a month BEFORE annual passes! My dad was there opening day at Disneyland. I met Walt once when I was a kid. My entire family are Disneyland AP holders. I am in the DisneyClub. I take my family to WDW (from SoCal) every two years. Our walls are COVERED with Disney stuff. We spend thousands of dollars every year on Disney vacations and stuff. Hey, if I'M disgusted with the direction the company is taking right now, I think I'm entitled to my opinion, as are the others on this board.

Roy

[Eeyore2U]

Originally posted by roymccoy
Can't you understand that some people are pissed off?? You keep acting like we can't have a bad thought about Disney. Get the pixie dust out of your eyes! Disney's cutting TOO MUCH right now and people are going to take notice of it. You can cheerlead all you want but it ain't gonna change the fact that there are many people who are not going to blindly put up with this.

Roy,

Can you accept that that some will not accept your word as gospel. Some of us who have been there recently are intelligent enough to make our own decisions, and WILL.

[roymccoy]

I don't have any problem with different views than my own. I don't have ANY problem with people thinking Disney is great right now and they are pushing all of the right buttons. I just don't happen to agree. My problem is with people who jump down the throats of anyone who has a bad word for Disney. I try to point out the good things I see at Disney, and I see a lot of good. I just don't like the road that this company is taking right now. It is the same road that got them in a jam back in the 70's and we're about to go down it again. All I'm asking is to please let me, and others, have our opinions about certain aspects of Disney. They may not always agree with your opinions but that's what makes the world go round. No one is right or wrong, we're just different.

Roy

[raidermatt]

Roy, admittedly my first statement was too strong, and I apologized for it. However, if somebody is going to post that Disney is going to heck and a hand basket, and I disagree, I will say so. We are both expressing opinions and there's really nothing wrong with that.

In your case, you have said you will not be going back to either Disney site (FL or CA) until there is a rebound. You have told others not to go, and why, and in very strong language. That's fine. But if you are going to attack with such fervency, you can expect an equally passionate response.

I'm not saying I agree with every decision Disney makes, because I don't. But when I go to the theme parks, I don't feel the same disgust that you do. Perhaps its because I focus on what IS there, not what I think COULD be there. As a Disney guest and fan, I can think of lots of things I'd love to see Disney do. But looking back, the same would have been true 30 years ago, had I been old enough to realize it. When I look objectively at what Disney has added at both the FL and CA locations in the last 4 years, I see a lot to be positive about. If you hate DCA and AK, then that would explain why you are so unhappy. I happen to like both parks, and look forward to the continuing improvements being made, and that I expect to continue. Should those improvements/enhancements not happen, my opinion will probably change. But even then, as long as DL, MK, Epcot, and MGM remain the well run and magical parks I beleive them to be, I will not be cancelling my trips.

You saying that Disney is cutting too much is your opinion. The large negative impact it will have on attendance is also your opinion. While I'm not saying you are absolutely wrong, I will say that I think the moves Disney has made are very reasonable, given the current economic environment. I have no problem with somebody saying that the cuts have made the value of their stay decrease to a point where they will not go. That's an individual decision, and there is no right or wrong. All I can say is that I still value everything that Disney offers enough to continue visiting. And I will keep saying it in response to posts that say otherwise. Not to jump at anyone, but to offer another side to the story. Isn't that at least part of why these boards are here?

[roymccoy]

Let's move on.

Roy