New finger scans at Disney

[mitros]

Apparentley, Disney is going to begin using a new finger scanning method sometime in September. The ACLU claims that Disney is using the scans to collect information on guests, and Disney says that it is not true, and all of the information regarding a persons finger scan will be purged from their system after 30 days. Hey, if it works better then the current scanning system, and gets you through the gates faster, I'll go for it. Disney also says that a guest can refuse the finger scan, and use a photo ID instead......OK, why did they not just allow that form of ID all along for admission?

Go to www.local6.com and click on the "news" button to see the story

[ChrisFL]

Apparentley, Disney is going to begin using a new finger scanning method sometime in September. The ACLU claims that Disney is using the scans to collect information on guests, and Disney says that it is not true, and all of the information regarding a persons finger scan will be purged from their system after 30 days. Hey, if it works better then the current scanning system, and gets you through the gates faster, I'll go for it. Disney also says that a guest can refuse the finger scan, and use a photo ID instead......OK, why did they not just allow that form of ID all along for admission?

Go to www.local6.com and click on the "news" button to see the story

I saw finger scans at Universal a few weeks back and after seeing the other method they used with 2 fingers, this seemed to be a lot faster.

[manning]

ACLU!!!!

Heard they approached Goofy for the sole purpose of a Goofy law suit, upon which he stated "aren't the majority of your law suits Goofy?" :rolleyes1


edited for spelling.

[mitros]

ACLU!!!!

Heard they approached Goofy for the soul purpose of a Goofy law suit, upon which he stated "aren't the majority of your law suits Goofy?" :rolleyes1



I do believe you are correct!

[Dopey's twin Dippy]

we just got back from 8 days in disney. we had the new finger scan. i thought it was a pain and a waste of time. mine did notwork right at all. my husbands was a problem a few times. i think the old way was easier. but whatever , you do what you have to do to get in.

[ChrisFL]

we just got back from 8 days in disney. we had the new finger scan. i thought it was a pain and a waste of time. mine did notwork right at all. my husbands was a problem a few times. i think the old way was easier. but whatever , you do what you have to do to get in.

the old way with the 2 fingers?

[miss missy]

Last week I used the new finger scanner too. Its one finger. The old ones seemed to be dying and didn't work well. The lines to get in seemed worse, old or new.

[erikthewise]

There was an AP story in this morning's paper that said Disney was "scanning fingerprint information", a misleading phrase that seems to say that Disney is recording partial or complete fingerprints, which apparently is not the case.

It also said Disney has for years "recorded onto tickets the geometry and shape of visitors' fingers", which I believe is wrong in that the information was not recorded on the ticket. I could be wrong but I think all the ticket has is an access code and all further info is in the database.

I don't mind ACLU as nobody else seems to be paying any attention to privacy and individual rights these days. If they are right 1 time out of 10 or 20 it's worth having them around. But I think this time it's not nearly as big a concern as they are making it.

[T&E]

Hi there :wave2:
I would think that those of you with children may actualy want people to be fingerprinted ... I would hope that those fingerprints would be entered into a data bank to check for child molesters and others who commit crimes against children.
Just a thought ... there are some twisted people in the world and for some reason or another they never have a lack of children to choose from.
SOrry for the dose of reality, or to depress anyone but this is the world we live in.
Cheers :joker:

[Harley-Mouse]

Have ticket from last year with days on it how does this work ? Will we have a hard time that last year thay read 2 fingers now thay will read one? Just a ? the pass has our names on the so no bige.

[Geoff_M]

People need to get a grip in this one...

For starters, it's unclear how many measurements Disney is taking on the finger and even if the raw information is enough to uniquely ID the finger's owner. Remember that Disney doesn't need a 100% accurate scheme to make it enough of a deterrent to prevent ticket sharing/reselling.

Let me give you an idea of what the Disney rep is talking about in the story. Disney is taking some measurements of the distances between points on one of your fingers. They are then dropping the measurements into a "formula". A number drops out of the formula that that is what's stored with your ticket record.

Let me use a simpler example. Let's say Disney wanted you to punch in your your Social Security # as the turnstile before entry. Storing people's SS#'s is risky from an information standpoint. So instead here's what you do: You come up with a formula that adds the even numbers digits up, then adds the odd numbered digits up and multiplies the result by seven, adds the two resulting numbers and then you pluck off the tens and units digits and save these numbers. So say my SS# is 876-54-3210. I punch that in the first time a use my ticket and Disney's computer does this with the number:

Odd digits: (8+6+4+2+0)*7=140
Even digits: 7+5+3+1=16
Add the two results: 140+16=156
Store the tens and units digits: "56"

Disney would then store "56" with my ticket record. Then the next time I use the ticket and punch in my SS#, it runs the numbers again, gets 56, compares it to my stored number and says "Yep, it looks like he's legit". Such a system would be 99% accurate at ID'ing me. However, there's no risk of someone stealing my SS# from hacking Disney's database. My SS# also can't be reverse engineered if you know my formula result is "56"... Someone with a SS# of 012-34-5678, or 816-34-5270, or lot of others would also have a result of "56". I think it's safe to say that a system that's 99% accruate would be more than sufficient that preventing the kind of ticket abuse that WDW seeks to prevent.

Instead of using SS#, Disney is using input to their formula that can't easily be faked... a fingerprint.

This idea is a watered down version of a very common concept in the computer world. It's called password "hashing".

[doubletrouble_vb]

How does purging the system after 30 days help keep down ticket reselling? I suppose it prevents the sale of tickets on the street but it appears the practice of sharing tickets amongst family and friends is still a safe bet.

[Geoff_M]

What's purged in 30 days, if I read it correctly, is the raw measurements from your finger that is used as input for the formula.... not the formula result itself. However, the reporter's summary (note there's no quote) may not be a totally accurate statement about what Disney is doing. I don't know why Disney would need to keep the raw finger measurements for a flat 30 days once the measurements are run through the formula. What the Disney rep may have said is something along the lines of "30 days after a ticket expires we delete the fingerprint generated numerical value from our system."

[seashoreCM]

Disney also says that a guest can refuse the finger scan, and use a photo ID instead......OK, why did they not just allow that form of ID all along for admission?ry
Disney did use photo ID's at one time. I still have one of the tickets, from the 1990's, with my picture on it. Back then it was a crude black and white picture. I suspect that putting the pictures on tickets and/or storing picture information in computers would be too time consuming, too expensive, and take up too much computer disk space.

I would hope that those fingerprints would be entered into a data bank to check for child molesters and others who commit crimes against children.:

I could see a system some time in the not to distant future where, if a child is reported lost, the park goes into a sort of lockdown mode where all children exiting must have tickets presented and must do finger scans. Hair color would also be recorded so an abductor who hastily dyed the child's hair would not be able to smuggle the child out that easily. There would need to be some way to re-encode the ticket if a child visited the MK barbershop.

Have ticket from last year with days on it how does this work ? Will we have a hard time that last year thay read 2 fingers now thay will read one? .
If it is your first time through a one finger turnstile the system will record a one finger hash code and store that separately. If your next visit is through a two finger turnstile the older two finger hash code will be verified against. If the system always computed a hash code between 1 and 100 (0 to 255 is more computer-like) the ticket security would probably be considered good enough. Too many different hash codes and inaccuracies in the way people put their fingers in would alert the CM's to more mismatches and slow down the lines at the turnstiles excessively. (How many seconds does it take you to use a ruler and measure your own finger to the nearest sixteenth of an inch as opposed to the nearest quarter of an inch?)

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

[paulh]

weve just got back a week ago used finger scaners and swaped tickets round to check,we never had a problem getting in i was always first in and there was always a green light on turnstile and display only showed valid ticket and type ie hopper ect
Paulh

[NeverEnufWDW]

The ACLU .... making America safer for terrorists and violent criminals one pompous, ridiculous, anti-American lawsuit at a time. They can burn in hell.

[Ariel Mae]

Those fingerscans never worked correctly.

[CinderellasSister]

At first, I thought Disney WAS doing a fingerprint scan with these new machines. Then I read more and found out I was wrong, they're just doing some kind of math equation with part of the fingerprint or something like that. Personally, I would prefer them to check everyone's fingerprints. I have 2 small children, and want them protected at any cost. If they check the fingerprints, then they might catch a pedofile who is violating parole by being in Disney. Those stupid ACLU people would be the same ones complaining that Disney didn't protect their children if something happened to them. If people have nothing to hide, then who cares??? :confused3

[mitros]

The ACLU .... making America safer for terrorists and violent criminals one pompous, ridiculous, anti-American lawsuit at a time. They can burn in hell.
You said it! :worried:


Anyway, we were at the Epcot entrance by the Yacht and Beach Club, {we call it the "rear" entrance} and the old two finger scanners were still there. The CMs said the new scanners would be there on the 17th, Were going there again next week, and we'll check them out.....

[Dsnyfam]

The current method of biometrics worked great for us! They apparently did away with the old "photo" id's after people decided to "share" passes with family members and friends. The new person would simply cut open the sleeve to the pass, and slip in a new photo--then seal the ends. Since they were just laminated, it was not hard to do. I think the best way is either retinal scans (eyes) or a voice recognition device. These are nearly impossible to duplicate. The fingerprint can be easily fooled (according to the powers that be in our government). People can "lift" a fingerprint easily, and simply "wear" it over the top of their own! Freaky! So--anyone can use another person's pass and just get in without any problems. :confused3

[rwodonnell]

The fingerprint can be easily fooled (according to the powers that be in our government). People can "lift" a fingerprint easily, and simply "wear" it over the top of their own! Freaky! So--anyone can use another person's pass and just get in without any problems. :confused3
We are still talking about admission to a theme park, right? ;)

I'd be very afraid of anyone who went to that much effort to swindle a day at the park from "the man".

[plgrn]

weve just got back a week ago used finger scaners and swaped tickets round to check,we never had a problem getting in i was always first in and there was always a green light on turnstile and display only showed valid ticket and type ie hopper ect
Paulh


Same here, and never had a problem. Even if the light turned red and denied you access, the frustrated CM's would just send you on through. The system seems like more trouble than it's worth! It can't be cheap to BUY all the equipment, now REPLACE all the equipment, and MAN the equipment since it doesn't work well. Why not just let "them" steal a day's admission from "the man." Look like it would be cheaper in the long run. :confused3

[kidsister]

Hey Mitros, I was there and heard the same deal at IG for a timetable for getting the new scans! And I'll be back again on the 29th so I 'll check them out too. I was told that IG already has the software installed in the turnstiles, now they are just waiting for the new scanner.

I used both the old two finger and the new one finger scanner this last trip.
The one finger worked like a charm and the two finger was, is and always has been for me, a PITA! LOL!

You know , if a person wants to sneak or talk their way into DIsney, I'm sure they can. The scans came about due to massive reselling of multiday tickets and besides Disney' losing money on those resales, they also were being held to task IF the ticket wasn't what the reseller promised. The employees are jsut doing the best they can....but this last trip one time I had my AP scanned and then my friends ticket didnt' work and so we both went over to the outside guest services.....and a half hour later when I tried to get back IN , the turnstile rejected me for 'this pass was already used only 30 minutes ago'. (By the way, I rarely lose my temper, but my friends had paid over $80 for a ticket to go into MK at 7pm and I was really harassed that after a half hour at guest services that then when THEY got through, I was stopped resulting in even more delays.)

[Dsnyfam]

We are still talking about admission to a theme park, right? ;)

I'd be very afraid of anyone who went to that much effort to swindle a day at the park from "the man".
Like Kidsister wrote--anyone who really wants to sneak into Disney can find a way! You would be surprised at the lengths some people will go to to save the cost of entrance. I've heard of them actually "hiding" in the park overnight, to have an extra free-day. :confused3 Think of all the mosquitoes, etc. :rotfl2: I too am always shocked at what people will do to get past "the man" (as you put it!).

[flortlebap]

Aren't the new ones meant to be more reliable?

[shadonjenon]

The ACLU .... making America safer for terrorists and violent criminals one pompous, ridiculous, anti-American lawsuit at a time. They can burn in hell.

Nice! :sad2:
The very thing that gives you the ability to make such a statement "American Civil Liberty"

[mitros]

Nice! :sad2:
The very thing that gives you the ability to make such a statement "American Civil Liberty"
Not hardly.......



Anyway, we were there yesterday, and the new single finger scans were by far easier to use and a lot quicker.

[LOLA2]

My mom gave me three partially used tickets from last summer when we all went, my brother broke his leg in parkinglot when his wheelchair ran into a cart at a grocery store parking lot. My mom, dad and brother only got to use 2 of their 5 days since he broke his leg. They now cannot (will not) go to Disney any time soon because it is to hard to transfer him out of wheelchair.
My mom gave my family the tickets so they would not go to waste. But if I am correct reading all this now that means I can't use her tickets they are basically trash now right? There was no signature required but they did get finger scanned. :confused3 I would like to know answer to this so I can plan ahead of time and save up more moola. Thanks to anyone who knows.

[m_kasch]

If you have some older tickets, you can still use them (old as in before the finger scan). My brother in law used one day of his dad's ticket from a few years ago last year. FIL had purchased an annual pass, so at least this way the old ticket didn't go to waste. But you can't do that anymore, with the finger scan.

I am so happy to hear that they are going to one finger scans. There always seemed to be a person in front of me who couldn't get the two finger scan to work, so we would wait for what seemed like forever (anxious to get into the park!!). This should be an improvement!!

[manning]

My mom gave me three partially used tickets from last summer when we all went, my brother broke his leg in parkinglot when his wheelchair ran into a cart at a grocery store parking lot. My mom, dad and brother only got to use 2 of their 5 days since he broke his leg. They now cannot (will not) go to Disney any time soon because it is to hard to transfer him out of wheelchair.
My mom gave my family the tickets so they would not go to waste. But if I am correct reading all this now that means I can't use her tickets they are basically trash now right? There was no signature required but they did get finger scanned. :confused3 I would like to know answer to this so I can plan ahead of time and save up more moola. Thanks to anyone who knows.

If those are "Magic Your Way" tickets and she did not buy the no expiration option They have expired. The new tickets expire 14 days after the first use unless that option is bought.

[LOLA2]

If those are "Magic Your Way" tickets and she did not buy the no expiration option They have expired. The new tickets expire 14 days after the first use unless that option is bought.


No they are not magic your way.

[ctbasketlady]

As long as there is no name on the ticket and they are still valid (not expired) you should have no problem.

[MermaidsMom]

To me it seems like a big germ machine. Yuck. :crazy:

[mitros]

Well, we finally got to use the new single finger scanners.......FAR easier to use then the old 2 finger method. Used it about a half dozen times, it was a lot faster, and it did not turn me down as the two finger one did. I give it a yes vote. :)

[Disneybag]

To me it seems like a big germ machine. Yuck. :crazy:

At least it's only one fingertip in lieu of two whole fingers...

[mitros]

To me it seems like a big germ machine. Yuck. :crazy:


We carry little containers of hand sanitizer, and use it constantly at WDW. After touching hand rails, getting on and off rides by the handholds, after usung restroom facilities, and the finger scans as well.