DVC Response About Ebay Commercial Sellers

[Jay Foster]

I mostly lurk here and I have read with interest the situation involving the commercial renters who buy up a bunch of points to make a profit and routinely do this. I am not against renting but not at the sake of causing problems for people who use DVC as it was intended.

I just emailed Disney one auction that I found was particularly in violation of the rules. I am waiting to see if they intend to investigate the matter. I did advise them that these auctions were all over Ebay (although I am sure they may already know that).

I just thought I would pass it along.

[DISNEYFOS]

I'm interested to see what their response will be.

I wonder if they have a way to determine who made these reservations for auction and whether they will indeed cancel them like they claim in the August email.

"To maximize the availability of reservations for these permitted purposes, Disney Vacation Club closely monitors reservations and may cancel reserved accommodations if a pattern of rental activity for profit is discovered."

I believe a few negative reviews for an ebay seller who sold a reservation that was cancelled out from under the buyer should quash that practice pretty quickly. :teeth: (insert evil laugh here)

[Chuck S]

I doubt you'll get much response other than a standard "thank you for bringing it to our attention, we are looking into it." Any other sort of reply would probably have to be cleared by Disney legal dept. But I do hope they can do something about the situation, whether they do it publically or not.

[littlestar]

There was somebody on E-bay about a month ago that was selling about 14 DVC Interval International exchanges (that's definitely against Interval International's rules to rent exchanges). I noticed it on the DVC's because they were priced too cheap on the bigger units and they were asking for the buyer to pay that $95.00 fee that you have to pay when you trade through Interval into an onsite Disney resort. I saw the auction one day and the next day it looked like E-bay had shut the auction down. So I figure II must have seen it and stopped it. That same seller on E-bay had a bunch of Marriott Hawaii weeks for sale, too. On the Marriotts they were asking the renter to pay a fee to change the name on the reservation - I've heard if you own the actual Marriott week there's no charge to change the name, so probably another clue that the Marriott weeks were Interval exchanges also.

It's really amazing sometimes what you see on E-bay. :eek: I figure if it's priced too good to be true, probably better stay away from it.

[JimMIA]

"To maximize the availability of reservations for these permitted purposes, Disney Vacation Club closely monitors reservations and may cancel reserved accommodations if a pattern of rental activity for profit is discovered."

I believe a few negative reviews for an ebay seller who sold a reservation that was cancelled out from under the buyer should quash that practice pretty quickly. :teeth: (insert evil laugh here)Disney's not going to cancel a ressie out from under anyone. They'll deal with the renters directly if they have to, but they're not going to mess up some family's dream vacation.

[JimMIA]

I doubt you'll get much response other than a standard "thank you for bringing it to our attention, we are looking into it." Any other sort of reply would probably have to be cleared by Disney legal dept. But I do hope they can do something about the situation, whether they do it publically or not. ::yes:: Yep! What he said.

[DebbieB]

Wouldn't it be hard to track down a member on e-bay since you don't list your real name? You could list under several e-bay names.

I agree with Chuck, DVC will not respond with details on what they did about it (if anything).

[rinkwide]

...I just emailed Disney one auction that I found was particularly in violation of the rules...It wasn't the VWL "Sold Out Christmas" reservation, was it?

[tmt martins]

There's people right here on the DIS that admit they bought enough point to rent out to pay for thier small trip they take themselves. They even admit that they book the prime weeks because they know when it gets close it will be sold out and they will get their money.This money pays for thier dues as well as payments if financed because they even stated how many total points they bought.So thats renting for profit as well.

You didn't have to go to E-bay to find this it's right on the Rent/trade board.

DVC is going to find it very hard to make it stick if they don't put out definent rules and not just a generalization.

[DISNEYFOS]

Disney's not going to cancel a ressie out from under anyone. They'll deal with the renters directly if they have to, but they're not going to mess up some family's dream vacation.


I don't know :confused3 First, I think anyone that's planning their family's "dream vacation" off of ebay needs some help. More likely, its a person trying to get a trip to disney cheap and is willing to accept some risks.

I think Disney wouldn't hesitate to cancel a reservation if it violated a policy, family vacation or not...they are a business after all and they need to protect their interests.

I do agree however with other posters that Disney will not respond with specifics as to how they are going to deal with this particular occurance.

[Deb & Bill]

Wouldn't it be hard to track down a member on e-bay since you don't list your real name? You could list under several e-bay names.

I agree with Chuck, DVC will not respond with details on what they did about it (if anything).

All they have to do is look for multiple reservations under different names for 5 nights (Sun-Thur) for the same member number.

[LisaS]

Wouldn't it be hard to track down a member on e-bay since you don't list your real name? You could list under several e-bay names.All Disney needs to do is look at several of a seller's auctions and then search their reservations database to see which member(s) have exactly those dates and resorts booked. I would be surprised if more than one member's name turns up for the same combination of reservations.

I would be surprised if these people are using several ebay names. It's important for ebay sellers to have lots of positive feedback in order for buyers to trust them. Each time they create a new ebay name, the seller would have to start over with zero feedback and that isn't good for business.

[Chuck S]

I'm thinking that with the enforcement of the one transfer per year policy, Disney thinks most of the problems with several of the "for profit" renters will die down next year, after all the currently transferred points are used up. Like I said, I think the response the OP will get from Disney will be generic (not that that is a bad thing), and they will "wait and see" if the transfer limit has had the desired effect before taking further actions.

[Boston5602]

I have the solution.......





When Disney finds any DVC points on Ebay or anywhere else in violation of anything then Disney confiscates those points and sends them over here to all the DVC owners that post here on The Dis we could share in the splitting of these points for our own Disney Trip enjoyment.


What do you think?

It will stop the commercial profiteers and help us out here on the Dis !!

:thumbsup2

[JimMIA]

I don't know :confused3 First, I think anyone that's planning their family's "dream vacation" off of ebay needs some help. More likely, its a person trying to get a trip to disney cheap and is willing to accept some risks....or completely clueless to the risks...and that's the danger zone for Disney. They don't want to hurt someone just because they bought something on eBay.

I think Disney wouldn't hesitate to cancel a reservation if it violated a policy, family vacation or not...they are a business after all and they need to protect their interests.Making Mickey look like The Grinch on Crack does not protect Disney's interests. They are much too sophisticated to do something like that.

Identifying renters is a two-hour, first-year accounting school problem -- not nearly as difficult as the guesses here assume. And once they identify the culprits they choose to go after first, there are a number of steps they can take well short of canceling some family's vacation.

[JimMIA]

When Disney finds any DVC points on Ebay or anywhere else in violation of anything then Disney confiscates those points and sends them over here to all the DVC owners that post here on The Dis we could share in the splitting of these points for our own Disney Trip enjoyment.

What do you think?I LIKE IT! :cool1: :banana: :cool1: :cheer2:

...which probably means it is both unconstitutional and fattening! :rolleyes2

[keys2kingdom]

I have the solution.......





When Disney finds any DVC points on Ebay or anywhere else in violation of anything then Disney confiscates those points and sends them over here to all the DVC owners that post here on The Dis we could share in the splitting of these points for our own Disney Trip enjoyment.


What do you think?

It will stop the commercial profiteers and help us out here on the Dis !!

:thumbsup2



An excellent proposal!!! :cheer2:

[drakethib]

I think Disney wouldn't hesitate to cancel a reservation if it violated a policy, family vacation or not...they are a business after all and they need to protect their interests.
.


Just playing devils advocate here, if Disney were to cancel the ressie, wouldn't it be the responsibility of the renter to make good with the rentee?

[JandD Mom]

Just playing devils advocate here, if Disney were to cancel the ressie, wouldn't it be the responsibility of the renter to make good with the rentee?

Drake,

Honesty and ethics would demand a refund of money. I don't know how you would be able to give the person a room if DVC refuses to allow it. But practically, the remedy should be spelled out in the rental agreement. Yet another good reason to have one!

I am sort of a new DVC owner, but I have a question to add. Doesn't DVC already have the right to cancel reservations made, whether in the name of the owner or the renter, if the member's account is not up to date? Wouldn't DVC just do the same thing to someone it determines is "abusing" the renting of points?

[JimMIA]

Just playing devils advocate here, if Disney were to cancel the ressie, wouldn't it be the responsibility of the renter to make good with the rentee?Absolutely.

But put yourself in the mocassins of that family. You fly all day to get to Disney, you get to the resort, and Disney tells you they have canceled your reservation because you rented from a commercial renter :eek: on eBay.

What was your crime? You didn't know the DVC POS prohibits that? :crazy:

Now...if you were in that predicament, who would you be mad at -- the person you rented from, or the company who told you your vacation had been tossed into the toilet because THEY decided to do so?

That's a public relations nightmare. Geraldo (where IS he, BTW?), Greta, and Nancy Grace would be all over that. Larry King would interview some guy who used to be your ex-wife's cousin for two hours live from WDW! Wolf's lips would quiver and Bill Riley would be apoplectic.

Naw. Ain't gonna happen. :sad2:

[brasey]

[QUOTE=DebbieB]Wouldn't it be hard to track down a member on e-bay since you don't list your real name? You could list under several e-bay names.



If it is a violation of a legal contract I am sure that they can get the records of that individual and the legal department can do as they wish with them. E-Bay will not hold back someones account info in regards to transactions if pressed legally.

[starbox]

Absolutely.

But put yourself in the mocassins of that family. You fly all day to get to Disney, you get to the resort, and Disney tells you they have canceled your reservation because you rented from a commercial renter :eek: on eBay.

What was your crime? You didn't know the DVC POS prohibits that? :crazy:


I disagree. Before the ticket tagging, and even now, people paid big bucks on resale market tickets via. sites like ebay and sometimes those tickets did not work. Disney's policy was, basically, "too bad". I don't think the media would be sympathetic of people who try to play the system. (Remember how much media Disney owns).

Even the guidebooks say that if you don't deal directly with Disney, you just have to take your chances that you're dealing with an honest seller/renter. Even before the new rules went into effect, I would have never rented from a DVC member because I'd have been afraid something like that could happen. The risk of something potentially going wrong with my dream vacation was too great for me to deal with anyone other than Disney directly.

[Fitswimmer]

I disagree. Before the ticket tagging, and even now, people paid big bucks on resale market tickets via. sites like ebay and sometimes those tickets did not work. Disney's policy was, basically, "too bad". I don't think the media would be sympathetic of people who try to play the system. (Remember how much media Disney owns).

I was visiting the folks at Thanksgiving time and the local Orlando station did a story about people who bought resale tickets and were turned away at the gate because the tickets were not valid. I believe Disney did offer them discounted park tickets in the name of good public relations, but the report concluded with a warning about buying only from Disney itself if you wanted to be sure that the tickets you buy will get you into the park.
I could see Disney trying to accomodate the family if possible at a value resort, but the message will get across much faster if word gets out that people's vacations are being ruined over ebay DVC sales. I know all it would take for me is to hear one story about how someone got ripped off purchasing DVC on ebay and it would keep me away.

[drakethib]

Absolutely.

But put yourself in the mocassins of that family. You fly all day to get to Disney, you get to the resort, and Disney tells you they have canceled your reservation because you rented from a commercial renter :eek: on eBay.

What was your crime? You didn't know the DVC POS prohibits that? :crazy:

Now...if you were in that predicament, who would you be mad at -- the person you rented from, or the company who told you your vacation had been tossed into the toilet because THEY decided to do so?

That's a public relations nightmare. Geraldo (where IS he, BTW?), Greta, and Nancy Grace would be all over that. Larry King would interview some guy who used to be your ex-wife's cousin for two hours live from WDW! Wolf's lips would quiver and Bill Riley would be apoplectic.

Naw. Ain't gonna happen. :sad2:


Not disagreeing with you Jim, but I didn't rent from Disney, I rented from the renter. The rentees contract is with the renter. Yeah I would be ticked off if this happen, but I think it could happen. This is why I would never rent points (YMMV). I will have them transferred but never rent. I am a DVC owner but before that I would just foot the bill for the room that I want. Yeah it hurts the pocket book but better safe then sorry IMHO. When I didnt have the money for the room I had to get what I could afford.



Also, let me ask a dumb question, does DVC "allow" points to be rented? I really don't know.

Disney canceled the ressie with the DVC owner.

It could be a PR snafu, but at the end of the day, it would be a PR nightmare for Ebay more then Disney IMHO.


To those who do rent, I strongly recommend paying by credit card so that the charges can be contested if something goes wrong.

Please don't take this the wrong way as I know there are some good people renting their points. You never know what could happen these days.

[Para2176]

Let me throw this idea out and see how it plays.

If say a hypothetical DVCer purchased a 150 pt contract with 40 years left at $80/point, the total cost of that contract would be about $12000.

If we factor in general maintenance costs of about $700 per year for this contract (which of course could go up), the total maintenance costs for the life of the contract would be about $28000. Round it up to $30000 for potential increases.

If the purchaser paid cash for the contract (no financing charges factored), the total cost to the purchaser for the life time of the contract would be about $42000.

If we divide that by the total points over the life of the contract (6000 points), the cost per point over the lifetime of the contract would be $7 per point.

Therefore, based on this calculation, anyone that rents their points over $7 per point is making a profit.

So, my question is:

"Can DVC in anyway enforce a policy against people who commercially rent without affecting everyone?"

I have no intention of renting my points to anyone in the near future (I have vacations planned for the next 7 years). But after that time, or if my situation changes, I would like the ability to rent the points to at least cover maintenance fees for the year.

My understanding is that under the contract you are not restricted from renting your points unless it falls into the category previously mentioned on this board.

But then again, I could be wrong.

[sajetto]

So, my question is:

"Can DVC in anyway enforce a policy against people who commercially rent without affecting everyone?"

.


This is my concern too Para. I just let the commercial renting roll off my back because I know that in an effort to elimate the commerical renters it would affect the rest of us.

My fiance and I bought into DVC because it was the right decision for us at the moment. In the future we may find that we have too few or too many points for our needs or that we simply cannot go one year. In this case we will NEED to rent out our points because banking them would cause an excess. If it came to the point that we could not rent out our left over, unused points we would be forced to sell our DVC because it would no longer be economical. We'd be paying for points and the fees that go along with them they we aren't even using.

[DISNEYFOS]

In the future we may find that we have too few or too many points for our needs or that we simply cannot go one year. In this case we will NEED to rent out our points because banking them would cause an excess.

In this scenario, clearly you wouldn't be considered a "commercial renter" and there is no indication you are renting "for profit". I don't believe this would raise any red flags with anyone.

I don't think Disney is trying to change anything to a black and white policy (renting/no renting) just saying its at their discretion to cancel reservations if they see anyone blantantly abusing the system.

[JimMIA]

I think there are a couple of things we miss in considering enforcement against commercial renters. The first is the methodology used to identify them, and the second is the nature of the enforcement action.

The way they would identify renters is simply by looking at DVC's own records. For example, they tell their auditing software to go look at all 100,000+ DVC accounts and give them a list of all accounts with, say, four or more ressies in the past 12 months. Or, if you wanted to set the bar really high, more than 12 ressies in the last 12 months.

You get a list. Are all of those commercial renters? No. To determine that, you'd have to go to each individual account and evaluate it. But the rental patterns would jump right out at you. A commercial renter's account would not look anything like yours and mine. So the process to identify commercial renters is very simple and inexpensive to do.

As far as enforcement, this is a great question: "Can DVC in anyway enforce a policy against people who commercially rent without affecting everyone?"And the answer to the question is YES. Yes, they can easily enforce against commercial renters without having any impact at all on people who rent points occasionally for whatever purpose. Renting is not against the DVC rules -- commercial renting is against the rules.

How do you enforce against commercial renters without impacting regular DVC owners?

Simple. You call them and tell them you've identified a pattern of commercial renting in their account, which violates the DVC POS, and you are no longer accepting reservations in those accounts. You tell them you'll honor the existing ressies if they want to retain the account until all the ressies are fulfilled, or they can cancel the ressies and sell their account.

Don't like it? Sue us. Please. We have lawyers.

[paults]

why do some people think Disney should be responsible for taking care of someone who rented pts off e-bay or from this boards rent/trade board.



If you rent off these then this is your problem if something goes wrong (not Disneys)

Granted Disney will most likely try to do something to right this but it shouldn't be expected. sorry

I remember before we joined DVC and wanted to go to WDW I used to check E-BAY for the old park hoppers for a deal. Well after thinking about it awhile I said no way. What makes me think that a E-BAY PH with 2 or 3 days left on it is true. If I buy it and get to the park and it doesn't work , whose fault is it. NOT DISNEYS it's my fault and they same goes for renting. You rent and it doesn't work, too bad your problem, NOT DISNEY.

As far as these people booking all these hot times and then renting them out, it just hurts the rest of us because we can't get these times.

come on DISNEY get with it :thumbsup2

[stlrod]

By way of background, I am an ocassional renter and have used eBay to do so. I have 265 points. I view DVC as a prepaid vacation expense and sometime rent my interest to pay for other vacations.

This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but nonetheless here goes. While there are mixed views on whether renting is appropriate, two wrongs do not make a right. In my view, members do not need to be contacting DVC to inform them other members are violating rules. If DVC is truly interested in protecting the interests of the members, they will look into eBay auctions themeselves and address the situation on their own.

It is very easy to track down the members who are "habitually" selling on eBay. How do I know this? I was "caught" by American Airlines once. I sold a frequent flyer ticket on eBay and within hours after making the reservation for the purchaser, I was contacted by American and told that the itinerary had been cancelled and that I was to refund the money to the purchaser. I did so, lost the miles and "paid" a miles penalty. Frankly, it could have been worse (I did not lose all my miles.) Needless to say, I have never sold a frequent flyer ticket since then. By the way, American sold a ticket for the same itinerary to the eBay purchaser at a greatly reduced rate.

As for how I will conduct myself in the future with DVC, I will not be using the boards or eBay to rent points. I might consider renting points to people who have rented from me in the past or true friends and family members. Even then, I would do it on an infrequent basis.

As for commercial sellers, you can complain all you want about, but the bottom line is that until now, DVC has turned a "blind eye" to them. I am sure that this new enforcement policy will reduce the frequency of renting without any of us needing to police the situation.

[rinkwide]

...commercial renting is against the rules...Not really. Commercial renting is against Disney's stated policy. This "policy" is a self-serving twist on a disclaimer in Florida timeshare contracts which protects buyers from misrepresentation.

It would never hold up in court but it doesn't have to. With knowledgeable people on here are repeating Disney's erroneous claim as fact, it has already achieved it's desired intent.

[Para2176]

As far as enforcement, this is a great question: And the answer to the question is YES. Yes, they can easily enforce against commercial renters without having any impact at all on people who rent points occasionally for whatever purpose. Renting is not against the DVC rules -- commercial renting is against the rules.

How do you enforce against commercial renters without impacting regular DVC owners?

Simple. You call them and tell them you've identified a pattern of commercial renting in their account, which violates the DVC POS, and you are no longer accepting reservations in those accounts. You tell them you'll honor the existing ressies if they want to retain the account until all the ressies are fulfilled, or they can cancel the ressies and sell their account.



I think the problem is there is not a current definition of "commercial renter" and only a vague statement to that effect.

My experience with contract law is, unless it is specifically defined beforehand, changes in the contract are not permitted by either party unless mutually agreed upon. An arbitrary set of guidelines adopted and enforced by Disney without agreement of the DVC owner can not be enforced.

The other problem is what criteria do you use to identify the "commercial renter" over anyone else. Just because reservations are made in someone elses name, does not indicate the people are renting. The "renters" who advertise on ebay are blatantly obvious. But how can you differentiate that renter and say a person who holds a large contract and "rents" points to members of a group, formal or informal, without advertising.

I think under the current circumstances things will continue as they are currently practiced.

[debloco]

Making Mickey look like The Grinch on Crack...
:lmao:

Don't like it? Sue us. Please. We have lawyers.

Again... :lmao:

The way they would identify renters is simply by looking at DVC's own records. For example, they tell their auditing software to go look at all 100,000+ DVC accounts and give them a list of all accounts with, say, four or more ressies in the past 12 months. Or, if you wanted to set the bar really high, more than 12 ressies in the last 12 months.

You get a list. Are all of those commercial renters? No. To determine that, you'd have to go to each individual account and evaluate it. But the rental patterns would jump right out at you. A commercial renter's account would not look anything like yours and mine. So the process to identify commercial renters is very simple and inexpensive to do.
Bolding mine, and ITA.

We made 5 reservations our first year of owning DVC, and have made 3 so far this year. But Jim's right; my account would look nothing like a commercial renter's account.

[Jay Foster]

Update.

DVC had the auction REMOVED from ebay.

Further update: I spoke with DVC today and they are not going to tolerate commercial renters any longer. They are cracking down on the ebay auctions on this.

This will NOT affect people who just rent because they can't go on a vacation. In other words, what I call the "casual" renter.

So, if you want to stop the commercial renting, a simple email with the link to the ebay auction works.

[crisi]

I think the problem is there is not a current definition of "commercial renter" and only a vague statement to that effect.

My experience with contract law is, unless it is specifically defined beforehand, changes in the contract are not permitted by either party unless mutually agreed upon. An arbitrary set of guidelines adopted and enforced by Disney without agreement of the DVC owner can not be enforced.

The other problem is what criteria do you use to identify the "commercial renter" over anyone else. Just because reservations are made in someone elses name, does not indicate the people are renting. The "renters" who advertise on ebay are blatantly obvious. But how can you differentiate that renter and say a person who holds a large contract and "rents" points to members of a group, formal or informal, without advertising.

I think under the current circumstances things will continue as they are currently practiced.

May be moot. This can turn easily into "my lawyers are bigger than your lawyers." Besides, as rinkwide said, probably not necessary. Renting has always incurred some risk - Disney has publically gone on record now as saying "and we don't have your back - moreover, we don't approve of the commerical rental market." That makes it less attractive to renters, which will drive the demand down, add the "can't transfer lots of distressed points" and Disney is putting people out of business on a profit margin move without cancelling a single reservation. That and maybe a letter to eBay on some of the aggregious commercial renters that would shut down the "high traffic" eBay location.

Cancelling reservations may be a bluff - but what informed renter is going to risk their vacation finding out?

I don't think this is a legal move - I think this is a "making the rental business unattractive" move.

[WDW LifeLong Fan]

..........Geraldo (where IS he, BTW?), Greta, and Nancy Grace would be all over that. Larry King would interview some guy who used to be your ex-wife's cousin for two hours live from WDW! Wolf's lips would quiver and Bill Riley would be apoplectic.

Naw. Ain't gonna happen. :sad2:


:lmao:

[Jay Foster]

:lmao:

Well, again, what did happen is the auction was removed from Ebay. I just provided DVC the link and they took care of it.

[Jay Foster]

One more update.

I searched ebay for disney vacations and noticed that DVC did not have just that auction that I emailed them removed but ALL COMMERCIAL auctions were removed.

Unless I missed something on ebay, it appears they are really cracking down on the commercial renters.

[DISNEYFOS]

Well, again, what did happen is the auction was removed from Ebay. I just provided DVC the link and they took care of it.



Excellent Thanks for the update. If they removed the auction, no doubt they will notify the renter his reservations are in jepoardy of being cancelled.

[Fitswimmer]

Well, again, what did happen is the auction was removed from Ebay. I just provided DVC the link and they took care of it.

Excellent. I feel badly for the people that patronized that auction because they rented in good faith, but they also assumed a certain amount of risk when they made the purchase. "Let the Buyer Beware"

I can't help but think that Disney's crackdown on commercial renters will be good for us members who buy points to use for ourselves, friends and family.

[Deb & Bill]

One more update.

I searched ebay for disney vacations and noticed that DVC did not have just that auction that I emailed them removed but ALL COMMERCIAL auctions were removed.

Unless I missed something on ebay, it appears they are really cracking down on the commercial renters.

Good work, Jay. :thumbsup2

[Par8hed]

Jay:
Sent you a PM

I also don't like the commercial renting.

[doubletrouble_vb]

Makes you wonder what websites they'll be going after next. Disney is conflicted about rentals. They want the price you can get for points to be low so that your incentive to rent is low. At the same time a low price competes in your favor against Disney. WDW really needs to have the rental floor be at about 50% of Disney's cost and not much lower.

[JimMIA]

One more update.

I searched ebay for disney vacations and noticed that DVC did not have just that auction that I emailed them removed but ALL COMMERCIAL auctions were removed.

Unless I missed something on ebay, it appears they are really cracking down on the commercial renters.
I'm no eBay expert, but I did find two auctions active...both touting BCV.

[dumbo71]

Update.

DVC had the auction REMOVED from ebay.

Further update: I spoke with DVC today and they are not going to tolerate commercial renters any longer. They are cracking down on the ebay auctions on this.

This will NOT affect people who just rent because they can't go on a vacation. In other words, what I call the "casual" renter.

So, if you want to stop the commercial renting, a simple email with the link to the ebay auction works.



Just curious how you know that DVC had them removed? Who did you speak with at DVC?

DVC had better hope that those auctions removed were in fact "commercial renters." Renting IS and has always been allowed. If in fact it isn't allowed then this board should shut down the Rent/Trade board. I don't see that happening.

I'm still not buying that YOUR email got them removed. In fact I don't believe they were removed. As it stands there is still a listing there for Saratoga Springs Resort and I'd bet others as well. Maybe they accepted an offer?

DVC doesn't want to open this can of worms. They would lose big time if it went to court. I will continue to rent points until the time comes that I can use them all myself. I double dare DVC to do anything about it. If they do I'll sell immediately as well as take legal action. They knew full well I would rent a large portion of my points and it was stated that it was clearly allowed.

The transfer change I fully support. Points changing home resort status is simply wrong. Renting is not.

[sajetto]

I don't see where anything has been removed either. The VWL christmas one is still up too.

[rinkwide]

Sorry folks, but there are plenty of DVC rentals on eBay right now. Unless and until there is verified proof of an actual cancellation expect business as usual.

[Jay Foster]

Sorry folks, but there are plenty of DVC rentals on eBay right now. Unless and until there is verified proof of an actual cancellation expect business as usual.


Well, the link for the one I sent them was definitely canceled. Apparently, they did not get them all but I know for sure they got more than one because the search I did the other day showed at least 10 and now none of them are there. Using different search terms it is obvious you will get different auctions since there are probably tons on ebay.

In any event, the manager at DVC said they had contacted ebay about this and would not tolerate it.

How about if we see a commercial renter on ebay we email to DVC asking that they remove it for violation of the rules?

[Jay Foster]

Just curious how you know that DVC had them removed? Who did you speak with at DVC?

DVC had better hope that those auctions removed were in fact "commercial renters." Renting IS and has always been allowed. If in fact it isn't allowed then this board should shut down the Rent/Trade board. I don't see that happening.

I'm still not buying that YOUR email got them removed. In fact I don't believe they were removed. As it stands there is still a listing there for Saratoga Springs Resort and I'd bet others as well. Maybe they accepted an offer?

DVC doesn't want to open this can of worms. They would lose big time if it went to court. I will continue to rent points until the time comes that I can use them all myself. I double dare DVC to do anything about it. If they do I'll sell immediately as well as take legal action. They knew full well I would rent a large portion of my points and it was stated that it was clearly allowed.

The transfer change I fully support. Points changing home resort status is simply wrong. Renting is not.


I certainly have no reason to lie. I'm trying to think of a motive for lying. . .Uhhhh. . .None thought of so far. Moreover, I have the EXACT LINK for the auction and it was REMOVED PER EBAY.

In addition, I also used the same search terms I used the other day and NONE, I repeat NONE of the auctions I saw showed up.

Again, as I said in the previous message, you are certainly going to find different auctions by using different search terms. It is up to the members to provide the links to DVC and let them know we do not appreciate the commercial renting.

[disneygrandma]

I just checked E-Bay, and here's what I found, without even much of a search:

Wilderness Lodge - 3 listings. 1 was by smw, and didn't have any dates assigned to it. 1 was by boardwalkmagic, for an October reservation. Both of these sellers had lots of comments about previous DVC trips that had been sold. The 3rd one was for a "sold out" holiday reservation in December. However, it doesn't appear that this seller has any previous comments about DVC trips.

Old Key West - 3 listings. 1 was by vacation4u, no specific dates. 1 was by smw, no specific dates. 1 was by boardwalkmagic for a sold-out Halloween week.

Beach Club Villas - 2 listings. 1 was by smw, no specific dates. 1 was by disdvcer for a "sold-out" food & wine date, and a statement that there was an additional week available also.

Boardwalk - 6 listings. 1 was by disdvcer for a "sold-out" Halloween week, with comments that 2 other additional weeks were available. 1 by smw, for a standard view, no specific dates. 1 by smw, not standard view, no specific dates. 1 by boardwalkmagic for the 1st week of October. 1 by jidivine for a standard view in December. 1 by jidivine for another standard view with a different December week.

Saratoga Springs - 3 listings. 1 by boardwalkmagic for a "sold-out" New Years week. 1 by smw, no specific dates. 1 was for Labor Day week, but this seller doesn't have any comments about previous DVC trips that were purchased.


If a listing had been removed, it was probably because it was purchased, or the time had expired on it. I don't see any evidence of a crack down by Disney on the E-Bay listings.

[Jay Foster]

I just checked E-Bay, and here's what I found, without even much of a search:



If a listing had been removed, it was probably because it was purchased, or the time had expired on it. I don't see any evidence of a crack down by Disney on the E-Bay listings.


Nope. You are incorrect. I have the link. I even printed a copy of the auction. It did not expire and did not have a buy it now on the auction. And per the ebay link "if the listing was removed by eBay, consider it canceled."

Of course, we could keep arguing about it or you could actually take the time to email disney one of the links you found.

[disneygrandma]

Jay, I didn't mean to offend you with what I said. I wasn't attacking you. I was just stating the listings that I found on E-Bay, and possible reasons why some listings would disappear.

I think that's great that you were able to have a commercial renter removed from E-Bay. As you can see from what I listed though, there are a lot more of them out there. What was the name on the one that was removed?

Again, I'm sorry that you took this wrong.

[mushpurple]

jhlkg

[Johnnie Fedora]

Come on everyone...Grab your pitchforks and torches and lets "Kill the Monster"!!! The rental monster that is. :rolleyes:

This whole commercial rental issue seems to be a band-aid solution to DVC's inability to properly track transfered points the way they claim they will be tracked per the POS. Period. It's a CYA move on DVCs part. I've never rented transfered points so I never expect DVC to ever search my account for commercial activity. What I do with my annual allotment is my business, even if none of the reservations is in my name.

[minnie61650]

FYI

I used the search words Disney rental and I am currently "watching"
10 DVC auctions that are up for bid.

[Deb & Bill]

Disney knows what is on Ebay and they have known about it a long time. Disney is going to do what they are going to do. Why not live and let live? Don't you think they will set up shop somewhere else? There are so many big renters on the Dis Boards who have not paid to list there DVC and that has been going on for years..Not to mention that there are people who have web sites for renting their DVC points (which is actually setting up a business - which is different than someone listing on Ebay).

People who rent (commercial or not) are not hurting you or Disney. ...

This commercial renting business is not much different than the reuse of mugs, five in a room, etc. It might not be hurting me (but then again it might be) but it is against the rules. Whether you like it or not.

[dumbo71]

I certainly have no reason to lie. I'm trying to think of a motive for lying. . .Uhhhh. . .None thought of so far. Moreover, I have the EXACT LINK for the auction and it was REMOVED PER EBAY.

In addition, I also used the same search terms I used the other day and NONE, I repeat NONE of the auctions I saw showed up.

Again, as I said in the previous message, you are certainly going to find different auctions by using different search terms. It is up to the members to provide the links to DVC and let them know we do not appreciate the commercial renting.



Whether you are lying is irrelevant. What is relevant is that you failed to answer my question. Who did you speak with at DVC? Who exactly is in charge of this "crack down on commercial renters"?

As soon as I read your post I checked Ebay. Nothing has been removed that I can see. There are tons of listings there as others have stated. Many listings from the same owner. Why weren't they removed?

I have to say, it is business as usual, just like Rinkwide stated. Short of calling you a liar, I just don't quite believe this post or your follow up posts.

Maybe you could post a copy of the email to DVC or the link to the Ebay auction you claim was removed. Lets hear the response from DVC and what was stated.

Anybody else skeptical about this? Sorry if this offends but I need a little more evidence.

[Deb & Bill]

Whether you are lying is irrelevant. What is relevant is that you failed to answer my question. Who did you speak with at DVC? Who exactly is in charge of this "crack down on commercial renters"?

As soon as I read your post I checked Ebay. Nothing has been removed that I can see. There are tons of listings there as others have stated. Many listings from the same owner. Why weren't they removed?

I have to say, it is business as usual, just like Rinkwide stated. Short of calling you a liar, I just don't quite believe this post or your follow up posts.

Maybe you could post a copy of the email to DVC or the link to the Ebay auction you claim was removed. Lets hear the response from DVC and what was stated.

Anybody else skeptical about this? Sorry if this offends but I need a little more evidence.

Whoa, chill, slow down a bit. You're acting a mite threatened here.

[mushpurple]

I would love to see the more positive sides of people shine!

[tmt martins]

This commercial renting business is not much different than the reuse of mugs, five in a room, etc. It might not be hurting me (but then again it might be) but it is against the rules. Whether you like it or not.


ITA and thats the problem the real only way they could catch them and do something about it is win the Auction see what member sends them the ressie. Then cancel the ressie for commercial renting and try to get their money back or convert those points as they are theirs to cash for CRO.

The bottom line is DVD still owns all your points and they can default them for any policy broken at any given time.You are using E-bay as a way to sell thus advertising and it becomes commerical at that point . Renting to a family or friend is not advertising and will still be OK .

I just don't see DVD really being hurt by this so why would they care. Thats my biggest concern.

As far as the ones dropping off they may have been scared here on the DIS and are just going to relist them later.

[Dean]

This commercial renting business is not much different than the reuse of mugs, five in a room, etc. It might not be hurting me (but then again it might be) but it is against the rules. Whether you like it or not.I would disagree. Some are clearly against the written rules and renting is not. Plus there is a clause in FL statue 721 that says that the developer would be held to the same provisions as the owners.

[disneygrandma]

You know you're right about wanting to see the positive side of things. After we purchased our DVC points at WDW in January, I came home and started reading these posts. I told my husband that everyone seems so angry! I was reading post after post about people not getting what they wanted, and on and on.

But as far as this situation with the commercial renters, I don't think it's right that someone would scoop up weeks during prime time, just so they could advertise them as "sold-out" and profit from it. The sellers that don't have existing reservations will only be able to make the new reservations from what is available. That is not giving them an advantage over the other DVC members. I think there is a difference in how these people rent their points.

And of course the average member who needs to rent some points they can't use, well I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's the large DVC for profit people that I think this thread is referring to.

[sajetto]

After we purchased our DVC points at WDW in January, I came home and started reading these posts. I told my husband that everyone seems so angry! I was reading post after post about people not getting what they wanted, and on and on.

\.


You're right. I've just starting posting on the DVC boards again this week and it hasn't changed. I don't like the DVC boards because people seem to keep their nickers in a twist over here. I think I'll continue to spend the majority of my time on the CB and Wedding Boards as usual, where its not constant negativity, whining, and complaining. I own DVC just like the rest of you, but I have a life beyond it :rolleyes:

Every once in a while its nice to check in on what rumors are circling in the DVC community, but the drama gets exhausting

[JimMIA]

You're right. I've just starting posting on the DVC boards again this week and it hasn't changed. I don't like the DVC boards because people seem to keep their nickers in a twist over here. I think I'll continue to spend the majority of my time on the CB and Wedding Boards as usual, where its not constant negativity, whining, and complaining. I own DVC just like the rest of you, but I have a life beyond it :rolleyes:

Every once in a while its nice to check in on what rumors are circling in the DVC community, but the drama gets exhausting
I think there is often a correlation between number of posts and civility. New posters sometimes aren't quite sure how to act, they've been on other boards which are rough & tumble, etc. It takes a while...some longer than others.

Most (but not all) folks who have been here a while have learned how to disagree without being disagreeable.

[mushpurple]

Maybe DVC is a little oversold?

[zalansky]

You're right. I've just starting posting on the DVC boards again this week and it hasn't changed. I don't like the DVC boards because people seem to keep their nickers in a twist over here. I think I'll continue to spend the majority of my time on the CB and Wedding Boards as usual, where its not constant negativity, whining, and complaining. I own DVC just like the rest of you, but I have a life beyond it :rolleyes:

Every once in a while its nice to check in on what rumors are circling in the DVC community, but the drama gets exhausting

I agree! I come over every now and then to check on rumors and everyone seems so holier than thou at times.

[Simba's Mom]

I think it's the PTB at Disney who've put pressure on DVC to stop the renting. Aren't the renters really in competition with Disney by renting out accomodations on Disney property? And I don't think Disney likes any one else "muscling in" on their turf. They want to be the only ones who can rent accomodations. Maybe they've threatened DVC-"Hey, if you don't stop your DVC members who are competing with us, we'll go over to OKW and dig up the pool we gave you." :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[mushpurple]

Too many people make personal attacks on this web site. This should be about discusssion.

[rinkwide]

...everyone seems so holier than thou...It's not that we're holier, it's just that everyone else are a bunch of unwashed heathens.

[Jay Foster]

Whoa, chill, slow down a bit. You're acting a mite threatened here.


:thumbsup2 I agree. I think the poster Dumbo might want to try a decaffeinated coffee! :rotfl:

[dumbo71]

Whoa, chill, slow down a bit. You're acting a mite threatened here.


Sorry that post seemed a little angry. :confused3

It is just that the OP made some statements that have not been verified. He still refuses to answer the questions asked of him. I'll have to write it off as ruffling some feathers because I've seen nothing to verify his statements.

As someone who rents each year this issue does effect me. Posts like this get the blood boiling a little.

Imagine for a second, I'm sitting in the DVC office with my guide deciding on how many points I want. I spell out my travel arrangements for the year and come up with a number. The guide then says it is better to go on the high side because "you can always rent the excess." I say " You can rent?" He says "yes, in fact I rent and renting is allowed according to DVC and is spelled out in the POS you'll recieve." Doing my part I ask to see this provision in writing. My guide shows me where it is clearly stated. Silly me, I rent my excess to cover dues and the like because after all "it is allowed."

Now fast forward to the recent email update about commercial renting. Then this guy's post about DVC actually enforcing it. Now you see where I might be a little steamed.

I guess I'm just old school, I thought points were the owners to do with as they see fit. If they choose to book all peak weeks for there own use at 11 months, that is there business. I don't see it being any different than booking them and then renting them. They are still booked either way and those times are gone. Now transferring points and trying to take advantage of the loophole.... now that is wrong and throws the whole system out of balance.

I also declare all rental income on my tax returns. Screwing the IRS... not a good idea.

Sorry if this comes accross harsh but enforcement of this is way overboard and a little doubtful.

[brasey]

Quote: Dumbo71
Sorry that post seemed a little angry. :confused3

It is just that the OP made some statements that have not been verified. He still refuses to answer the questions asked of him. I'll have to write it off as ruffling some feathers because I've seen nothing to verify his statements.



All he has to do is supply the link and the issue could be put to rest.

[dumbo71]

:thumbsup2 I agree. I think the poster Dumbo might want to try a decaffeinated coffee! :rotfl:


Decaf, Na! I'll settle for another one of Rinkwide's one liners. :thumbsup2

Back on topic: stil waiting for the link you keep referencing....................................... .................................................. .... :hourglass

[crisi]

It is not for me or you decide whether or not we like it. That is besides the point....it should be live and let live. Disney already knows about all of these people...why not let them do what they are going to do and not try to hurt others. Focus on more positive issues. I would love to see the more positive sides of people shine!

Than live and let live and let Jay report his concerns. None of your business. If Disney chooses to do something they do. If they don't, they don't.

None of my business if people "engage in a pattern of renting for profit." None of my business if other people report those people to member services. Amuse yourselves as you want, guys. I amuse myself by analyzing the resulting patterns of behavior.

[Jay Foster]

Fair enough Dumbo. I wasn't going to answer since you seemed a little upset for some odd reason. I merely provided what I did as I lurk here a lot but generally see no need to post. In this instance the egregious violations of the rules on ebay were just too open for me to ignore so I contacted DVC. I actually spoke with them today about it and specifically spoke with a manager who said they were aware of the problem with ebay and they had already taken action. He even asked if I was signed up for the email (which I am) and received the one reminding commercial renters about the rules.

By the way, given what you posted, I don't think this affects you. It only affects commercial renters. It is not going to affect someone who rents points a few times a year because they can't go or whatever. I think it will affect someone who advertises: I can get you dates for any time period as I have them all booked up now.

Does that answer all your questions?

Or do you want to interrogate further? JUST KIDDING! :goodvibes Have a good day!

[prez65]

Nothing has been removed from ebay I think the OP was just stirring up s&*t..why didnt he post the link?..I am an avid Ebayer.I do a lot of selling (not DVC) and buying..I rented a Vacation before I purchased DVC to see if I would like it...saved over 600.00 on renting from someone off Ebay than booking through Disney.....which by the way holds a percentage of DVC to rent out..so whats good for the Goose....

Anyway I always check DVC rentals and I can tell you that I see the same people over and over....Check feedback and you can see thats all they sell.nothing has been removed..as far as I am concerned it falls along the lines of scalping tickets...except you usually pay more for sold out tickets but with Disney people are selling for less than Disney would for the same ressies. I have nothing against either...If you are quick enough and smart enough to get the Tickets or Dates at Disney before someone else then more power to you.

Also how would Disney define selling for a profit.....what is the limit on price? What is the limit on how many vacations you can sell?

I like the fact that Disney only lets members check ressies now...it keeps the phone lines from being tied up from non-members and also the transfer idea seems fair...but they can not stop you from selling...neither will ebay. If it wasn't for me renting from ebay I would have not purchased DVC...I am sure a lot of people have rented and than purchased...it would be foolish for Disney to stop people from selling.

I think I am rambling.......Anyway this was just the OP stirring up some crap....otherwise the link would have been posted...and the results would not have happened as fast as they did....Ebay does not pull auctions unless they are violating ebay policy or the law....

[JimMIA]

Than live and let live and let Jay report his concerns. None of your business. If Disney chooses to do something they do. If they don't, they don't.

None of my business if people "engage in a pattern of renting for profit." None of my business if other people report those people to member services. Amuse yourselves as you want, guys. I amuse myself by analyzing the resulting patterns of behavior.
That's cold.

But good... ::yes::

[zalansky]

It's not that we're holier, it's just that everyone else are a bunch of unwashed heathens.

ok good one :rotfl:

[JimMIA]

:rotfl2:
Prez -- Calm down...you're hyperventilating, and that's not a good thing. This will all be okay in the morning! :)

[prez65]

I just had another thought about DVC for profit.....How much was the original purchase price for OKW 50.00 a point and now they sell for 80.00 a point...why is that OK to profit on and not renting?

And the Stitch DVC best kept secret pin...selling for more than 30.00......

I needed to add that...I am sure I will get the selling for more than you purchased for is not taken ressies away from DVC members...but you are still making a profit.......and that was the issue.

[prez65]

:rotfl2:
Prez -- Calm down...you're hyperventilating, and that's not a good thing. This will all be okay in the morning! :)

I just added something else prior to seeing this...and now I am laughing so hard I can't breath...... :lmao:

[JimMIA]

I just added something else prior to seeing this...and now I am laughing so hard I can't breath...... :lmao:
That's not any better than hyperventilating... :sad2:

[mushpurple]

I agree with you Prez. I bought DVC after renting from someone on Ebay a few times.

[TCPluto]

I actually spoke with them today about it and specifically spoke with a manager....

Could you post the DVC manager's name you spoke with so I can follow up with them?

Also, could you please post the ebay link you referenced as being cancelled?

I know this has been asked before, but maybe you missed it.

[Deb & Bill]

I noticed on a completely different, non-DVC thread, that somewhat noticed that something on eBay was gone. Other people pointed out it was still there. Maybe cookies were keeping her from seeing it.

Possibly could be the same thing here. Jay didn't see it and thought it was gone.

So, everyone, take a biggggg deeeeep breath. Hold it in......... Let it out slowlyyyyyyyyy.....Ahhhhhhhh.

I appreciate Jay talking to Disney. We all know that Disney allows renting, just not commercial renting.

I don't think commercial renting is a good thing. Now some of you rent out your points. As long as you aren't the big guns, you don't have anything to worry about. If you are one of the 25,000 point holders (by various routes and methods), you may have something to worry about. If you've developed your own website to rent out your points, you may have something to worry about. If your posts sound like a travel agent and you aren't one, you may have something to worry about. [Gee, I sound like Jeff Foxworthy. You might be a commercial redneck, uh, renter.]

So if the eBay listing is still there, maybe nothing has happened yet and Jay was just mistaken on something already showing up. It's possible.

Relax and stay cool. :flower3:

[Sammie]

Could you post the DVC manager's name you spoke with so I can follow up with them?

Also, could you please post the ebay link you referenced as being cancelled?

I know this has been asked before, but maybe you missed it.

If you wish to discuss Commercial Renting with DVC, then you can call and they will discuss it, you don't have to speak with the same person the OP spoke with.

[TCPluto]

If you wish to discuss Commercial Renting with DVC, then you can call and they will discuss it, you don't have to speak with the same person the OP spoke with.


I could talk to my neighbor about it too, but they wouldn't know what the previous conversation was and the facts surrounding the instant case.

I just think it's a little suspect that they refuse to post the ebay thread referenced. Also, while I certainly agree with the premise of stopping the commercial renters, posting chicken little scare tactics on the DIS to have potential renters think DVC is going to cancel their pending reservations is a little much.

With so little information provided ( and the abundance of information contrary to the OP's statements) this seems a little suspect, but that's just my opinion.

Just looking for a little clarafication from the OP.

[Sammie]

I could talk to my neighbor about it too, but they wouldn't know what the previous conversation was and the facts surrounding the instant case.

I just think it's a little suspect that they refuse to post the ebay thread referenced. Also, while I certainly agree with the premise of stopping the commercial renters, posting chicken little scare tactics on the DIS to have potential renters think DVC is going to cancel their pending reservations is a little much.

With so little information provided ( and the abundance of information contrary to the OP's statements) this seems a little suspect, but that's just my opinion.

Just looking for a little clarafication from the OP.

Then your concern is not about getting info about the situation from DVC, but more about proving the OP wrong.

Even if the OP shares the name of the manager he spoke with, DVC is not going to discuss with you the specifics of the conversation with the OP. So what is the point of asking the OP for the manager's name. :confused3

Certainly the OP can share the Ebay listing if he wants and it might be gone and that might not have anything to do with DVC, not sure how one would know.

[Para2176]

I don't think commercial renting is a good thing. Now some of you rent out your points. As long as you aren't the big guns, you don't have anything to worry about. If you are one of the 25,000 point holders (by various routes and methods), you may have something to worry about. If you've developed your own website to rent out your points, you may have something to worry about. If your posts sound like a travel agent and you aren't one, you may have something to worry about. [Gee, I sound like Jeff Foxworthy. You might be a commercial redneck, uh, renter.]


I think you brought to light an interesting fact.

If DVC really wanted to control so called "commercial renting", then why would they allow any single person to purchase a mega-point contract?

This issue could easily be handled by limiting the number of points any one owner could purchase at a resort. A very reasonable number could be agreed upon that would accomodate most individual owners personal needs, while opening up opportunities for other owners. I believe the current 2000 for any one resort and total of 5000 for all resorts may be a little much.

Unfortunately the convenience of selling off a major contract without forethought is why we are probably debating this issue.

[TCPluto]

...more about proving the OP wrong.

DVC is not going to discuss with you the specifics of the conversation with the OP.

Certainly the OP can share the Ebay listing if he wants...

Or having the OP prove his point isn't wrong and that what he said did happen, actually happened.

The DVC manager would certainly speak in general terms if they had a conversation about detering Ebay sales, because they want to stop them (I guess?).

They say they have a link showing the case specific thread, I would think they would want to post it to add credibility to their OP. I'd like to see it, as I can find over 20 DVC rentals on Ebay right now and this clearly is in conflict with the OP.

I'd like for the OP story to be true, but I am a little suspect.

It's not about disproving, it's about substantiating the claim which appears a little reckless.

[Jay Foster]

Hey,

Even Dumbo calmed down after my decaf reference! Calm down before some of you have a heart attack or something! :teeth:

If I get the chance, I'll post the link tomorrow.

I can only tell you what the guy told me and no I don't want to say the guy's name as I didn't ask him if I could post his name on the internet where a bunch of people might go nuts over what he said. But even if I did, I wouldn't think it would be right for a bunch of people to call the guy and drive him nuts over my conversation with him. And given the tone of some of the posts, I think that is exactly what would happen.

Why not pick up the phone, email a link (as I did) and call them yourself? I can't see why one manager would not say the same thing as another.

In the meantime, try decaf! :)

[rinkwide]

...If I get the chance, I'll post the link tomorrow...The item number would suffice as well (I could be wrong but I have this feeling you're going to be extremely busy tomorrow).

[mushpurple]

No matter what manager said...it does not mean that it is reality. How many times have we been given the wrong answer from Disney on one subject or another?

[paults]

this is getting good popcorn:: :drinking1 popcorn:: :drinking1 popcorn:: :drinking1 popcorn:: :drinking1

[TCPluto]

(I could be wrong but I have this feeling you're going to be extremely busy tomorrow).

I'm confident you are correct.

I think the OP is the stuff of urban legend. DVC legend in this case...

[Y-ASK]

I guess I'm just old school, I thought points were the owners to do with as they see fit. If they choose to book all peak weeks for there own use at 11 months, that is there business. I don't see it being any different than booking them and then renting them.
I'd have to disagree with you there. I'm also a renter of over bought points, but I don't think you should be able to "rent" a reservation. I'm all for anyone being able to rent your points as you wish (except commerical renting) but I would prefer to see it setup so that a potential renter would need to contact you 1st and then you make the reservation after everyone has agreed to terms. I also have thoughts on someone who can't go at the last minute and how to handle that but don't feel it necessary to write a novel about the subject. I think TUG has a board setup called "Last Minute Rentals" that works well.

Y-ASK

[Jay Foster]

My goodness! I promise I will NEVER post anything like this again and I may NEVER lurk here ever again! I'm deleting the Dis from my favorites on all my computers immediately. I'm installing a virus on all my computers which will cause the hard drives to explode. I now also request that someone come over and tar and feather me. I have already called the police on myself and they assured me that they will give me 25 years in jail for the post. Can someone come over and kick my dog while we are at it? Any other punishment someone might want to inflict or is all this punishment enough? :rotfl:

Mushpurple,

You may be right. I don't know. I'm only relaying what the manager told me. Did the manager lie? I don't know. Is the manager uninformed? I don't know. In any event, if DVC does stuff about this, for me, I think it is a good idea to stop the commerical renters ONLY, not people who rent a few times a year which would be silly.

Here is the link on the one that was removed or canceled or hacked into by somone or maybe I hacked into ebay myself and did it, right or maybe I created the link and it really installs a virus on your computer? Again, I don't know with 110% certainty that it was removed because of my complaint, I can only relay what I know which I already did: http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Vacation-Boardwalk-Timeshare-Rental_

In the meantime, try decaf as I suggested.

[DVCconvert]

Can someone come over and kick my dog while we are at it?

Perhaps to help raise money for your bail -- you could auction this opportunity off on Ebay?!!

:lmao:

[Lewisc]

Nothing sinister, your link is incomplete. Search Ebay and you'll find people auctioning DVC vacations. One even quotes the "unofficial" policy of allowing an extra guest if the guest brings a sleeping bag and towels. I don't if the auction was pulled or you just didn't properly copy the link. NO BIG DEAL, your post gave us some interesting points to discuss.

No problem with your post.


My goodness! I promise I will NEVER post anything like this again and I may NEVER lurk here ever again! I'm deleting the Dis from my favorites on all my computers immediately. I'm installing a virus on all my computers which will cause the hard drives to explode. I now also request that someone come over and tar and feather me. I have already called the police on myself and they assured me that they will give me 25 years in jail for the post. Can someone come over and kick my dog while we are at it? Any other punishment someone might want to inflict or is all this punishment enough? :rotfl:

Mushpurple,

You may be right. I don't know. I'm only relaying what the manager told me. Did the manager lie? I don't know. Is the manager uninformed? I don't know. In any event, if DVC does stuff about this, for me, I think it is a good idea to stop the commerical renters ONLY, not people who rent a few times a year which would be silly.

Here is the link on the one that was removed or canceled or hacked into by somone or maybe I hacked into ebay myself and did it, right or maybe I created the link and it really installs a virus on your computer? Again, I don't know with 110% certainty that it was removed because of my complaint, I can only relay what I know which I already did: http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Vacation-Boardwalk-Timeshare-Rental_

In the meantime, try decaf as I suggested.

[dianeschlicht]

I checked today with a number of different search criteria, and I only found one studio rental from BCV that was worded strangly. I couldn't find ANY other DVC rentals of any kind.

[rinkwide]

It's unfortunate that you haven't posted the entire URL or the item number.

By the way, I found a few other auctions I'm pretty sure were "cancelled" by Disney:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Vacation-Club-Timeshare-Rental_

http://cgi.ebay.com/Beach-Club-Villas-For-Food-and-Wine_

http://cgi.ebay.com/VWL-Sold-Out-Christmas-Week_

http://cgi.ebay.com/Unlimited-Use-Refillable-Mug_

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cinderella-Private-Massage_

http://cgi.ebay.com/Walt's-Frozen-Gallbladder_

[Santa]

This flaming piniata (sp?)thing is why I don't post my true meanings. They get misconstrudelated and you get discommbobulated. :santa:

My goodness! I promise I will NEVER post anything like this again and I may NEVER lurk here ever again! I'm deleting the Dis from my favorites on all my computers immediately. I'm installing a virus on all my computers which will cause the hard drives to explode. I now also request that someone come over and tar and feather me. I have already called the police on myself and they assured me that they will give me 25 years in jail for the post. Can someone come over and kick my dog while we are at it? Any other punishment someone might want to inflict or is all this punishment enough? :rotfl:

Mushpurple,

You may be right. I don't know. I'm only relaying what the manager told me. Did the manager lie? I don't know. Is the manager uninformed? I don't know. In any event, if DVC does stuff about this, for me, I think it is a good idea to stop the commerical renters ONLY, not people who rent a few times a year which would be silly.

Here is the link on the one that was removed or canceled or hacked into by somone or maybe I hacked into ebay myself and did it, right or maybe I created the link and it really installs a virus on your computer? Again, I don't know with 110% certainty that it was removed because of my complaint, I can only relay what I know which I already did: http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Vacation-Boardwalk-Timeshare-Rental_

In the meantime, try decaf as I suggested.

[Lewisc]

The links aren't posting correctly. Just do an ebay search.

Try terms like:

disney vacation boardwalk timeshare rental
or
disney beach club

The rental are still there.

[rinkwide]

I checked today with a number of different search criteria, and I only found one studio rental from BCV that was worded strangly. I couldn't find ANY other DVC rentals of any kind.Let me give you a hand:

Search eBay Florida Timeshare Rentals (Keyword: Disney) (http://travel.search.ebay.com/disney_Florida_W0QQa33mZQ2d24QQa33yZQ2d24QQa6ZQ2d2 4QQa7ZQ2d24QQa87ZQ2d24QQalistZa7Q2ca26Q2ca33yQ2ca3 3mQ2ca6Q2ca87Q2ca3801QQcatrefZC6QQcoactionZcompare QQcoentrypageZsearchQQcopagenumZ1QQfclZ3QQfgtpZQQf posZ92869QQfromZR2QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ3QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1 QQgcsZ4QQlopgZQQpf_queryZdisneyQQpfidZ4QQpfmodeZ1Q QreqtypeZ2QQsacatZ116087QQsadisZ200QQsaprchiZQQsap rcloZQQsargnZQ2d1QQsaslcZ2QQsbrftogZ1QQsofocusZpf)

There are ten or so on the first page alone.

[TCPluto]

I checked today with a number of different search criteria, and I only found one studio rental from BCV that was worded strangly. I couldn't find ANY other DVC rentals of any kind.

Currently active:

http://cgi.ebay.com/5-NIGHT-DISNEY-OLD-KEY-WEST-VACATION-TIMESHARE_W0QQitemZ220015602476QQihZ012QQcategoryZ 3257QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Old-Key-West-2-bedroom-Villa-Rental-Sept-23-30_W0QQitemZ290020676382QQihZ019QQcategoryZ88433QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Vacation-Boardwalk-Timeshare-Rental-STD-View_W0QQitemZ280016306482QQihZ018QQcategoryZ3257Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Vacation-Boardwalk-Timeshare-Rental_W0QQitemZ280017594377QQihZ018QQcategoryZ325 7QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/DISNEY-BOARDWALK-VILLAS-timeshare-rental-ORLANDO_W0QQitemZ260019732605QQihZ016QQcategoryZ32 57QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/DISNEY-BOARDWALK-timeshare-rental-ORLANDO-5-NT-DEC_W0QQitemZ160018713940QQihZ006QQcategoryZ3255QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Vacation-Wilderness-Lodge-Timeshare_W0QQitemZ280017594216QQihZ018QQcategoryZ 3257QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/DISNEY-WILDERNESS-LODGE-Villas-Timeshare-rental-Orlando_W0QQitemZ260019735549QQihZ016QQcategoryZ32 57QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Christmas-Vacation-in-Disneys-Wilderness-Lodge-Villas_W0QQitemZ190020577515QQihZ009QQcategoryZ116 087QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Vacation-Beach-Club-Timeshare-Rental_W0QQitemZ280017578829QQihZ018QQcategoryZ325 7QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Beach-Club-Timeshare-Vacation-Rental-Studio-Sept_W0QQitemZ130016279522QQihZ003QQcategoryZ3257Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/DISNEYs-SARATOGA-SPRINGS-Timeshare-Rental-Orlando_W0QQitemZ260019748379QQihZ016QQcategoryZ32 57QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Vacation-Saratoga-Springs-Timeshare-Rental_W0QQitemZ280018561344QQihZ018QQcategoryZ325 7QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/September-3-8-Disneys-Saratoga-Springs-5-NIGHTS-DVC_W0QQitemZ160019892601QQihZ006QQcategoryZ116087 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

OK, I'm sure that's probably enough to see that Ebay renting is still quite prolific, even as we speak (or type, as it were).

[TCPluto]

It's unfortunate that you haven't posted the entire URL or the item number.

By the way, I found a few other auctions I'm pretty sure were "cancelled" by Disney:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Vacation-Club-Timeshare-Rental_

http://cgi.ebay.com/Beach-Club-Villas-For-Food-and-Wine_

http://cgi.ebay.com/VWL-Sold-Out-Christmas-Week_

http://cgi.ebay.com/Unlimited-Use-Refillable-Mug_

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cinderella-Private-Massage_

http://cgi.ebay.com/Walt's-Frozen-Gallbladder_

Truly classic in the area of calling one out!

I really wish that massage auction was for real...... Also, the "meshare" link provided by the OP, I wish that was for real too.

[BWVNUT]

It's unfortunate that you haven't posted the entire URL or the item number.

By the way, I found a few other auctions I'm pretty sure were "cancelled" by Disney:


http://cgi.ebay.com/Walt's-Frozen-Gallbladder_

DARN! Thanks a lot OP - now you've ruined it for all of us! I was bidding on that frozen gallbladder!!!! :rotfl2:

[DisDaydreamer]

I mostly lurk here and I have read with interest the situation involving the commercial renters who buy up a bunch of points to make a profit and routinely do this. I am not against renting but not at the sake of causing problems for people who use DVC as it was intended.

I just emailed Disney one auction that I found was particularly in violation of the rules. I am waiting to see if they intend to investigate the matter. I did advise them that these auctions were all over Ebay (although I am sure they may already know that).

I just thought I would pass it along.

Sorry I just cut an pasted most of this from another thread, but it still is pertinent.

As far as defining a pattern, Disney doesn't need or want to do this, because the pattern is not what defines right or wrong, it is simply the red flag that will get their attention. After that they will let their legal team advise them on whether take action. You have to believe they have talked this through a thousand times and in every scenario. There isn't going to be any class actions suits, they know what they are doing. As far as the right or wrong thing to do... well I've been watching a number of threads on this subject and initially I was confused and didn't have a strong opinion either way, but now I do. Disney is doing this because it is hurting their sales and it is hurting the benign DVC owner who is now having difficulty getting ressies in peak times. It is not a severe problem yet, but renting points has certainly taken on a life (and business) of it's own and has the potential of becoming a truly undermining aspect of and to DVC. I want to be able to rent points when I need to. I would even like to rent some points (an amount less than what I personally use) to offset costs. This is reasonable and I think Disney will embrace this type of renting. The (business) of buying and renting solely for that purpose alone is going to end, and I for one think it is the right thing for Disney to do. I believe Disney will get their red flags, evaluate the situation, and take action or maybe give a warning, or accept that particular situation as acceptible activity. This is not going to be a hard nosed action against the typical DVC owner.

[JimMIA]

This thread reminds me of a slow news day on cable news. :rolleyes:

[disneygrandma]

Just out of curiousity, I just now did a search on E-Bay, the same way I did yesterday afternoon. I just typed in the name of the resort, and then selected "travel" for the category, and searched. Here's what I found today:

Wilderness Lodge - 3 (same as yesterday)
Old Key West - 2 (this was 1 less than yesterday)
Beach Club - 2 (same as yesterday)
Boardwalk - 4 (this was 2 less than yesterday)
Saratoga Springs - 3 (same as yesterday)

I'm sure if you searched different ways, you might come up with even more.

This search told me a couple of things. First, Disney has not cracked down on these. I'm sure Disney had prior knowledge of these E-Bay listings before this Weds. Second, there has not been a mass exit made by these sellers on E-Bay because of our postings here. Third, either these listings had expired, or we've created such an interest in this that they have been purchased.

[patsal]

Well, read through all of this one and it is pretty obvious abuse--and lots of incorrect information (perks wher ethe blue card is needed) as well as that the renter can contact MS. Only bothers me becasue people who own at BCV were most likely closed out of a reservation.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Beach-Club-Timeshare-Vacation-Rental-Studio-Sept_W0QQitemZ130016279522QQihZ003QQcategoryZ3257Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Island_Lauri]

I guess I'm just old school, I thought points were the owners to do with as they see fit. If they choose to book all peak weeks for there own use at 11 months, that is there business. I don't see it being any different than booking them and then renting them. They are still booked either way and those times are gone. Now transferring points and trying to take advantage of the loophole.... now that is wrong and throws the whole system out of balance.


I disagree. I think there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between an owner deciding that they want to go at peak time such as Christmas and using their points for their vacation compared to an owner deciding that they can make the most money by booking a peak time and renting it out. If you are renting for commerical purposes, you will consistently book at peak times knowing you will get the most money for your points then as it would be the most expensive time for non owners to get the hotel rooms on their own at Disney.

One of the best features of DVC is being able to book a different time each year. We happen to be going at Christmas time this year. (Booked at home resort at 11 months out - day by day). Owners that use their own points for their own vacation will typically not go to Disney every Christmas - which gives other owners a chance to go to Disney for Christmas once in a while. Whereas Commercial Renters may book Christmas (or another peak time) each year to maximize their profit - making it more difficult for other owners to occassionally use their points during a peak time.


As far as the crackdown on transferring points... I experienced that years ago when I traded reservations with another owner so we could get a Beach Cottage at Vero Beach and they wanted to stay in a Boardwalk Standard Villa. We were told that one transfer was allowed in one direction each year. Therefore, we could not transfer our points to each other. We ended up booking our reservations under each other names instead.

Transferring points is something that only owners can do so I don't understand why Disney is against that. I figured that Disney actually encourage renting over transferring as renters got a taste of DVC and a lot of them eventually bought their own points.

JMHO.

[tmt martins]

Well, read through all of this one and it is pretty obvious abuse--and lots of incorrect information (perks wher ethe blue card is needed) as well as that the renter can contact MS. Only bothers me becasue people who own at BCV were most likely closed out of a reservation.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Beach-Club-Timeshare-Vacation-Rental-Studio-Sept_W0QQitemZ130016279522QQihZ003QQcategoryZ3257Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


ITA but not nearly as bad as the web-sights that are out there just for renters.

What ever happened to todays post from the person that called out some fellow DISers as abusers to the system. It named names and was gone an hour later.Maybe the Rentees have more pull then we all think.

All should all be calling and reporting if it really bothers them rather then come on here and just complain to each other back and forth.

The bottom line is DVD should be held accountable for not holding up it's own rules and finding ways to do that. If I didn't pay my main.fees they would cancel my trip in a heartbeat so why not this .It's against the rules just like non-payment so they can but will they.

[JVC]

Don't you think this web site is really a business and much more of a problem?

http://www.dvcrequest.com

When you have a web site for some then it is a business. With Ebay it is difficult to tell if everyone and anyone is a business, but it is an east target for all of you because it is high profile.

Disney is more concerned with people who put up a web site and make a business. I found this one easily (not that I know if Disney knows about them), but I have seen quite a few others out there.

Even for those who rent all of their points every year. This is not a crime and was condoned by Disney's lack of action. I do not think there as big a problem as you would think by reading this board.



That's a well laid out site with lots of info but I didn't see any pre-booked vacations for rent.

[WDWDave]

Jay

Please continue the good work. We purchased DVC for family vacations and not to compete with commercial renters. The problem is especially troublesome when points are transferred and become points in a resort other than the one purchased.

I rarely post but I am offended by the abuse you have taken in this thread. I'm sure there are plenty of others who feel the same as I do. It's quite likely that the posters who have given you the most grief rent a great deal of points and are more concerned with their personal situation than the overall well being of all DVC'rs.

Please keep sending emails to DVC. I encourage everyone to do the same. If enough of us complain and send emails it may encourage DVC to continue to crack down on commercial renting.

I understand that there are over 100,000 DVC'rs and of these only a few can be in it for profit. It seems obvious to me that the interests of the 100,000 should come before the few.

Once again, thanks and keep going.

[mushpurple]

The people on Ebay do not necessarily have pre-booked weeks either.

[prez65]

This is getting better than the Smoking Issue Thread...... popcorn::

[Deb & Bill]

It's kind of funny, but if you read between the lines, you can pick out the big renters from the casual renters from the non-renters.

And, thanks, Pluto, I'll be sure to send that nice compact list over the DVC. You made it very easy for me. :rotfl: But, Rink, I couldn't get any of your links to work.. :rotfl2:

I'd kind of recommend to eBay renters that they at least use a different name than they use on the DIS.

[Dean]

It's kind of funny, but if you read between the lines, you can pick out the big renters from the casual renters from the non-renters.

And, thanks, Pluto, I'll be sure to send that nice compact list over the DVC. You made it very easy for me. :rotfl: But, Rink, I couldn't get any of your links to work.. :rotfl2:

I'd kind of recommend to eBay renters that they at least use a different name than they use on the DIS.Doubtful on the big renters as they don't post otherwise as a rule.

[prez65]

It's kind of funny, but if you read between the lines, you can pick out the big renters from the casual renters from the non-renters.


I'd kind of recommend to eBay renters that they at least use a different name than they use on the DIS.


I have been trying to read between the lines and all I see is white spaces...Who is who? I can't tell.....lets start a list... :duck:

Darn..I have the same ebay name as my disboard name... :badpc:

[TCPluto]

if you read between the lines, you can pick out the big renters from the casual renters from the non-renters.

Only if your crystal ball is working.

And if you think that DVC is unaware of these and every other Ebay listing, you're not giving them enough credit.

If they truly perceive these rentals as an issue, I'm confident they have them all tracked, on everyone one of the popular timeshare rental websites.

[LisaS]

The people on Ebay do not necessarily have pre-booked weeks either. Yes for one or two out there, but definetly not all of them. I think you make a big assumption and blame those few people on Ebay for availability problems at DVC.

My point was...I do not see that these people are obviously running a business. A person with a web site obviously is and that is clearly a business.If someone has excess points one year because an illness or new baby or whatever has prevented them from going to WDW that year and he/she chooses to rent those points on ebay rather than here on the R/T board, I don't see a problem with that. But if they purposely bought too many points so that they would have points to rent every year, and/or if they were having cheap points transferred to them on the R/T board to resell at a higher price/point, then they are in business, whether they have a separate website or make all their sales through ebay.

For example, the listings that Jay referred to (the seller on those listings is "smw" if you want to look them up) are not pre-booked reservations. But based on how many listings the person has and the amount of Disney vacation related feedback they have, they seem to have a LOT of points at their disposal. I would call that running a business. And while the seller does also have a website, it seems to be just for vacation homes in the Orlando area and they do not list their DVC business on that site.

[TCPluto]

Doubtful on the big renters as they don't post otherwise as a rule.

Exactly. The three biggest commercial renters that would be easily identifiable to most everyone, never post on anything but the rent/trade board, equal posts buying up distressed points and selling choice time periods at a huge premium.

[keys2kingdom]

Don't you think this web site is really a business and much more of a problem?

http://www.dvcrequest.com



This joker even links back to the DIS for his point chart!! Nice!!

I'm also digging the sidebar section to "Sell Points". Lovely.

Sounds like "David" needs a swift kick in the pants.

[jimh13432]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes1 :furious:

[mushpurple]

Maybe some people hold aside a lot of weeks, but not everyone.

[keys2kingdom]

Well, read through all of this one and it is pretty obvious abuse--and lots of incorrect information (perks wher ethe blue card is needed) as well as that the renter can contact MS. Only bothers me becasue people who own at BCV were most likely closed out of a reservation.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Beach-Club-Timeshare-Vacation-Rental-Studio-Sept_W0QQitemZ130016279522QQihZ003QQcategoryZ3257Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I've been watching a few of this person's auctions and I've got to say that they really irk me as a BCV owner. One of the other auctions stated that they had multiple other times Sept-Dec and that 'if you don't see the dates you want, email me and I'll set up an auction'. I could be jumping to conclusions but I'm guessing a lot of 'morphed' points are involved here. This person seems to have an awful lot of BCV auctions.

[keys2kingdom]

I just checked E-Bay, and here's what I found, without even much of a search:

Wilderness Lodge - 3 listings. 1 was by smw, and didn't have any dates assigned to it. 1 was by boardwalkmagic, for an October reservation. Both of these sellers had lots of comments about previous DVC trips that had been sold. The 3rd one was for a "sold out" holiday reservation in December. However, it doesn't appear that this seller has any previous comments about DVC trips.

Old Key West - 3 listings. 1 was by vacation4u, no specific dates. 1 was by smw, no specific dates. 1 was by boardwalkmagic for a sold-out Halloween week.

Beach Club Villas - 2 listings. 1 was by smw, no specific dates. 1 was by disdvcer for a "sold-out" food & wine date, and a statement that there was an additional week available also.

Boardwalk - 6 listings. 1 was by disdvcer for a "sold-out" Halloween week, with comments that 2 other additional weeks were available. 1 by smw, for a standard view, no specific dates. 1 by smw, not standard view, no specific dates. 1 by boardwalkmagic for the 1st week of October. 1 by jidivine for a standard view in December. 1 by jidivine for another standard view with a different December week.

Saratoga Springs - 3 listings. 1 by boardwalkmagic for a "sold-out" New Years week. 1 by smw, no specific dates. 1 was for Labor Day week, but this seller doesn't have any comments about previous DVC trips that were purchased.


If a listing had been removed, it was probably because it was purchased, or the time had expired on it. I don't see any evidence of a crack down by Disney on the E-Bay listings.



Well, smw should be pretty easy for DVC to track down if they are so inclined. They made a mistake on one of their auctions by listing the 'item location' as Lindenhurst NY and if you look at their feedback one of their 'clients' actually mentions them by name!! :scared1:

Quote: "The Weschler's are amazing and helped us so much with trip."

Guess we know what the "w" in smw stands for!

[3DisneyKids]

Maybe this SMW person owns a lot of points? I do not think that that is necessarily a business. It is very easy for us to judge, but I read their ad and they specifically reference not being a business. It is also a fantastic, descriptive and honest well written Ebay post.

I noticed that there are any others who are on their selling a lot. I think a much bigger problem the many people who are just doing it on the disboards and other boards like it. There are many big players on here that I have noticed (even though someone referenced that there were none on here). They are not as a high profile as an Ebay ad, but that does not mean that they are not there.

I think availabilty would be a problem with or without the big players. Disney is getting busier and busier.

I can verify that the eBay person you referred to in this post IS in this for business. I know because I rented from her 2 years ago...before I was "in the know" and before I found the DIS. (Of course, now I am a member myself...LOL!)

In any case, I will say that she treated me well, upheld the arrangement, everything went off without a hitch, etc. I spoke with her many times on the phone before committing, and she repeatedly said "Don't worry...this is my business...I do this for a living." Mind you, this was back in early 2004--2.5 years ago.

And I still frequently go to eBay and search for DVC rentals (before we became members and even after...just to see what people were charging), and every single time I have done this over the past 2+ years she has had something advertised. It's renting for profit, without a doubt.

[rinkwide]

...I think availabilty would be a problem with or without the big players. Disney is getting busier and busier.How dare you insinuate that this anti-renting crack-down is merely a distractive measure undertaken by Disney to take the heat off of itself for overselling DVC via their latest resort. Why that's...that's just...well, uh... That is what you meant, right? ;)

[Pootle]

... I am offended by the abuse you have taken in this thread. I'm sure there are plenty of others who feel the same as I do...

Yep, I share this sentiment. Thanks Jay :)

[mushpurple]

They are more likely to be out spending money and spend more time at the parks. A DVC member who has been there year after year is more likely to take a day or two just to relax. You will spend less that way and that is not a goal of any business.

[Deb & Bill]

When I posted earlier about reading between the lines. Check out some of other posts for the posters on this thread. You see lots of rental activity and point buying activity. No wonder they feel threatened.

[TCPluto]

When I posted earlier about reading between the lines. Check out some of other posts for the posters on this thread. You see lots of rental activity and point buying activity. No wonder they feel threatened.

I understood what you meant, I'm just saying it's a leap in all instances as you suggest.

[minnie61650]

When I posted earlier about reading between the lines. Check out some of other posts for the posters on this thread. You see lots of rental activity and point buying activity. No wonder they feel threatened.

Very interesting indeed. :scratchin

popcorn::

[Chuck S]

Did you buy DVC because you rented from smw and then liked it? Then DVC gained a customer and this was a great way for you to try it out. THis is a benefit that is gained by renting time out.

I was thinking about this and watch this Scenario.

Someone owns a lot of points so and they rent them out. Therefore you all say how that hurts you...

Does it really? What difference wold it be if 50 other people own the same time that that person owns. The same # of people go to Disney, the same amount of dues is collected and the DVC members all go. That wold make most of you happy and you would say that that is fine. The same number of people would not be paying Disney in regular reservations.

Here is the arguement:

If new people go because they rented from someone (commercial or not):

They are more likely to buy DVC from Disney (A DVC goal)

They are less likely to be passholders and buy tickets (and if Disney is luckly they will buy at the gate). DVC members are more likely to be passholders or have some strategy down about ticket use.

They are more likely to buy Souveniers (since those who go often may not feel the need).

A DVC member who is there every year may be more likely to spend time at the resort not spending as much money (since they have gone so often).


They are more likely to be out spending money and spend more time at the parks. A DVC member who has been there year after year is more likely to take a day or two just to relax. You will spend less that way and that is not a goal of any business.

I thnk Disney has oversold Saratoga and has give away many more points in their incentives that can be used right away and that has greatly caused the problems with availability. A year and half 2 years ago availability was not a problem. Saratoga's introduction and subsequent selling has created an availability crunch. They were giving people points that they could use right away for a while since their buildings were not yet built in order to get people to buy it. In addition, most Saratoga owners are willing to stay there, but they would prefer to stay and Boardwalk, Beach Club or Wilderness Lodge.

The big players and the morphing of points was there also. I do not believe there is any balance to point use and that they are arbitrary at best. If you think about the jockeying around that can be done for this use and that....let alone borrowing and banking , by definition it is not balanced.

I know many of you may not agree with me in some or all aspects, but I thought about this last night and I think it makes a lot of sense. This is not like someone illegally renting a house and draining on community resources. Disney collects the same money either way only the get more people who might not have gone and they get more potential customers.

Here's a problem with your whole "They are more likely to buy." scenario. If Disney routinely rented points for $10 to $12, even current owners would find it hard to justify their initial purcjase, and would simply rent weekdays at DVC from Disney and stay off-site or at a regular resort on weekends...no one would see any value to owning. If Disney renting at that price would be perceived as a severe devaluation to owning, why do some owners continue to defend commercial renting?

AS far as your claim to overselling through banking borrowing...again. not necessarily...Disney can restrict that right at anytime. And banking would create more availability in that year, so it would even out looking at the banking/borrowing over a multi-year period.

There are reports of resorts not having availability during the priority window, surely THAT has nothing to do with SSR, as theose owners can not book util 7 months, except through morphed points.

AS far as "what difference" if a large commerciual renters points were spread out to 50 or more members...well, if a commecial renter calls right at the 11 month window and books 40 studios in the same call during a premier week...it sure drops the odds for other members, whereas those other 50 members likely wouldn't be wanting the same week all at once.

[Mike]

When I posted earlier about reading between the lines. Check out some of other posts for the posters on this thread. You see lots of rental activity and point buying activity. No wonder they feel threatened.

As the great Arthur Fonzarelli would say - exactamundo :thumbsup2 I was about to ask one poster in particular what his/her ebay id is.


AS far as "what difference" if a large commerciual renters points were spread out to 50 or more members...well, if a commecial renter calls right at the 11 month window and books 40 studios in the same call during a premier week...it sure drops the odds for other members, whereas those other 50 members likely wouldn't be wanting the same week all at once.

Right on Chuck. I don't know why people can't seem to grasp this concept. From what I have been reading on the boards, I think the two biggest gripes that people have with the big renters are 1) the morphing of points and 2) the hoarding of prime weeks. If both of these things can be corrected/controlled by DVC then I think the uproar would subside.

[TCPluto]

the two biggest gripes that people have with the big renters are 1) the morphing of points and 2) the hoarding of prime weeks. If both of these things can be corrected/controlled by DVC then I think the uproar would subside.

Great observation and right on point.

[mushpurple]

Yes, I have rented on occasson.

[Oreo Cookie]

Here's a problem with your whole "They are more likely to buy." scenario. If Disney routinely rented points for $10 to $12, even current owners would find it hard to justify their initial purcjase, and would simply rent weekdays at DVC from Disney and stay off-site or at a regular resort on weekends...no one would see any value to owning. If Disney renting at that price would be perceived as a severe devaluation to owning, why do some owners continue to defend commercial renting?

AS far as your claim to overselling through banking borrowing...again. not necessarily...Disney can restrict that right at anytime. And banking would create more availability in that year, so it would even out looking at the banking/borrowing over a multi-year period.

There are reports of resorts not having availability during the priority window, surely THAT has nothing to do with SSR, as theose owners can not book util 7 months, except through morphed points.

AS far as "what difference" if a large commerciual renters points were spread out to 50 or more members...well, if a commecial renter calls right at the 11 month window and books 40 studios in the same call during a premier week...it sure drops the odds for other members, whereas those other 50 members likely wouldn't be wanting the same week all at once.

I agree with you. This is the problem with commercial renters, and I'm all for Disney trying to address the commercial renter. I have no problems with the DVCer who rents occasionally.

I don't know if the original OP had the listing pulled from Ebay or not, but there are still listings there for DVC property. I do think he took a beating for posting.

If commerical renting bothers you, then I think you have every right to bring it to Disney's attention and if enough people complain maybe things will change. I don't support the commercial renters, and from posts on this board you can definately get a good handle on who is a commercial renter.

Just my .02!!

[Oreo Cookie]

From what I have been reading on the boards, I think the two biggest gripes that people have with the big renters are 1) the morphing of points and 2) the hoarding of prime weeks. If both of these things can be corrected/controlled by DVC then I think the uproar would subside.

This is so true. I think you are correct, if DVC could correct the morphing of points and the hoarding of prime weeks all the bruhaha would subside.

[Dean]

There are reports of resorts not having availability during the priority window, surely THAT has nothing to do with SSR, as theose owners can not book util 7 months, except through morphed points.

AS far as "what difference" if a large commerciual renters points were spread out to 50 or more members...well, if a commecial renter calls right at the 11 month window and books 40 studios in the same call during a premier week...it sure drops the odds for other members, whereas those other 50 members likely wouldn't be wanting the same week all at once.I disagree on both counts. IMO, the added points from SSR has put pressure on the 7 month window forcing many members at the resorts in question to plan ahead more and reserve during the home resort priority. Obviously there are several factors but SSR is the only one that has changed. If a person calls and wants to reserve 50 units on day 1 of the 11 month window, it takes time to do so. They can really only get ahead of you on the first unit they are working on or the first few if they get several people to call. You can be on the other line getting the next one. No question DVC should track the points correctly but that is on them and no one else. But even morphed points would be as or more deserving than someone who doesn't own at that resort.

[Chuck S]

But even morphed points would be as or more deserving than someone who doesn't own at that resort. Why? Those "morphed" points were not included in the POS or point total for that resort for availability during the priority window.

[mushpurple]

My complaint here is the constant attacking.

[prez65]

http://cgi.ebay.com/DISNEY-VACATION-CLUB-COASTERS-11-SET_W0QQitemZ320016175190QQihZ011QQcategoryZ138QQs sPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This is starting to get crazy....If people keep doing this I may not have any Coasters on my next trip....

This has been reported to Disney...They are looking into this and feel it is an inside job...

They informed me they have been having this problem ever since SSR opened up...

We must report this type of Ebay selling to Disney....This has to be stopped before we have to deal with cup rings on the resort tables...

[Oreo Cookie]

http://cgi.ebay.com/DISNEY-VACATION-CLUB-COASTERS-11-SET_W0QQitemZ320016175190QQihZ011QQcategoryZ138QQs sPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This is starting to get crazy....If people keep doing this I may not have any Coasters on my next trip....

This has been reported to Disney...They are looking into this and feel it is an inside job...

They informed me they have been having this problem ever since SSR opened up...

We must report this type of Ebay selling to Disney....This has to be stopped before we have to deal with cup rings on the resort tables...


:rotfl2: :rotfl2:

[Anjelica]

Quote:
Originally Posted by WDWDave
... I am offended by the abuse you have taken in this thread. I'm sure there are plenty of others who feel the same as I do...



Yep, I share this sentiment. Thanks Jay
__________________

I second that. People who take the time out of their lives to rationally inform folks (i.e. Disney in this case) of something you don't feel is right is appreciated.

To me, this is no different then writing a rationale note/letter to Wal-mart, Target, etc. etc. about something you say as wrong or incorrect is/and should be appreciated by their other patrons as sometimes change comes out of these occurences. (And before someone wants to deflate a balloon they think I have blown up - I don't know if Jay's note to Disney will have any impact or not - I just appreciate him taking the time out to write to Disney about something he feels is not correct).

And note - regardless of where you stand on any issue we as consumers have a right and I feel a responsiblity (otherwise don't complain) to inform businesses of what we feel is wrong/right. I personally don't feel that renting for business is right but if you feel it is perfectly acceptable then right Disney and let them know.

[keys2kingdom]

If you get rid of all of the Ebay ads (which are easier to notice)....there would still be many commercial renters out there and...

The $10 to $12 you said is a problem is still being done everyday on this board by many different people. There are more individuals renting and they would be much more of a problem as a whole than the few big ones when we talk about availability.

My complaint here is the constant attacking. Please note that I have been trying to have a real discussion on here with people looking at the different sides of story. So what do we say...you rented before so you must be threatened.


Looked up all your past posts, very interesting. No wonder you say "Why not live and let live?". Any argument you were trying to make just lost all credibility with me.

[Dean]

Why? Those "morphed" points were not included in the POS or point total for that resort for availability during the priority window.Remember the statement is compared to non owners at the 7 months window. So you're talking an owner at that resort even if the points in question aren't. IMO, giving them a leg up is certainly reasonable compared to someone who doesn't even own there. Still, it'd be better do keep the points linked to the original home resort. On a related note, the FL laws actually do no protect from having the points cross over, they actually specifically allow it in some cases. Any argument related to over selling is only applicable to the time that is actually SOLD at the resort, not how the points are used, at least legally. As I noted previously recently, there is actually one resort that works on points that does not have a home resort priority. So any points bought anywhere compete at day 1 of any reservation window. That system has a resort in FL and is on the DVC exchange list. Interesting you responded only to a minor point in the post but not the two main ones.

[DVCconvert]

Posted by Dean:
...Interesting you responded only to a minor point in the post ...

Curious you should make that observation.
In what way(s) do you find it interesting that ChuckS made the reply he did?

[mushpurple]

See instead of discusssing the topic...

We say lets find a way to attack someone!

[Dean]

Posted by Dean:


Curious you should make that observation.
In what way(s) do you find it interesting that ChuckS made the reply he did?Because I specifically and directly disagreed with him on the two main topics of my post in question.

[DVCconvert]

See instead of discusssing the topic...

We say lets find a way to attack someone! ....but that has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

But Mushpurple--
that what we humans do best!
As the thin veil of civil discourse progresses, alternative opinions are put forth, as they mound up eventially someone's opinion is contradictary to someone elses. Once the 'disscussion' progresses as to the merits/short comings of another's position the warrior human either out of ego (I DO know it all), or embarrasement, or anger -- the ante is increased with progressively less and less dipolmatic word choices untill someone gives up, or someone "wins", or someone's feelings are truely hurt.
This seemingly unrational, decidedly unsophisticated mechanism is the heretofor zenith of human achievement - when it fails (as history has shown for thousands of years) then the blood starts to be spilled.

[Mike]

But Mushpurple--
that what we humans do best!
As the thin veil of civil discourse progresses, alternative opinions are put forth, as they mound up eventially someone's opinion is contradictary to someone elses. Once the 'disscussion' progresses as to the merits/short comings of another's position the warrior human either out of ego (I DO know it all), or embarrasement, or anger -- the ante is increased with progressively less and less dipolmatic word choices untill someone gives up, or someone "wins", or someone's feelings are truely hurt.
This seemingly unrational, decidedly unsophisticated mechanism is the heretofor zenith of human achievement - when it fails (as history has shown for thousands of years) then the blood starts to be spilled.


Wow ... we went from quoting Fonzi to this in less than 20 posts :rotfl:

[prez65]

Wow ... we went from quoting Fonzi to this in less than 20 posts :rotfl:

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[DVCconvert]

Wow ... we went from quoting Fonzi to this in less than 20 posts :rotfl:

Blessed are those who gallantly champion Free Speech! ;) :teeth: :rotfl:

[Chuck S]

I disagree on both counts. IMO, the added points from SSR has put pressure on the 7 month window forcing many members at the resorts in question to plan ahead more and reserve during the home resort priority. Obviously there are several factors but SSR is the only one that has changed. If a person calls and wants to reserve 50 units on day 1 of the 11 month window, it takes time to do so. They can really only get ahead of you on the first unit they are working on or the first few if they get several people to call. You can be on the other line getting the next one. No question DVC should track the points correctly but that is on them and no one else. But even morphed points would be as or more deserving than someone who doesn't own at that resort.

Fine, I'll address the other issues as well.
SSR is not the only factor that has changed. Interest rates on loans, travel costs and the general economy has changed during the last two years, as well. People don't have as much discretionary spending $$ as they did. It costs more to just drive to and from work, to buy groceries, etc. Almost every cost of living has increased because of increased energy costs, but in most cases wages have not increased by te same percentages. It is just as plausible that those factors have increased the desire of some folks to reserve and rent the ressies during the 11 month window.

If a person calls and reserves 50 units on day one of the 11 month window, it does take that many units out of the pool available, just the same as if 50 individuals called to book the same thing. But using your own suggestion that "owners" should be more entitiled than non-owners, then you should also be opposed to that type of commercial renting, as the people who rent those pre-made ressies are NON members, not owners at that resort. In otherwords, an owner is giving non-owners unfair advantage over other owners at that resort.

[Deb & Bill]

... But using your own suggestion that "owners" should be more entitiled than non-owners, then you should also be opposed to that type of commercial renting, as the people who rent those pre-made ressies are NON members, not owners at that resort. In otherwords, an owner is giving non-owners unfair advantage over other owners at that resort.

Here, here, Chuck!!! :thumbsup2

[Pootle]

... But even morphed points would be as or more deserving than someone who doesn't own at that resort...

Dean: Yours are always the views I look for in any interesting/hot thread. The above statement really surprised me though and I don't agree; like it or not, it's what DVC is all about and the way it was sold to everyone - the ability to book elsewhere at 7 months.

Just because there is a new big resort which has changed the booking dynamic (allegedly - but I, like you, believe it to be so) cannot make anyone who plays by the rules less 'deserving' than those who bend/break the rules by 'morphing' points surely? :confused3

[Dean]

Fine, I'll address the other issues as well.
SSR is not the only factor that has changed. Interest rates on loans, travel costs and the general economy has changed during the last two years, as well. People don't have as much discretionary spending $$ as they did. It costs more to just drive to and from work, to buy groceries, etc. Almost every cost of living has increased because of increased energy costs, but in most cases wages have not increased by te same percentages. It is just as plausible that those factors have increased the desire of some folks to reserve and rent the ressies during the 11 month window.

If a person calls and reserves 50 units on day one of the 11 month window, it does take that many units out of the pool available, just the same as if 50 individuals called to book the same thing. But using your own suggestion that "owners" should be more entitiled than non-owners, then you should also be opposed to that type of commercial renting, as the people who rent those pre-made ressies are NON members, not owners at that resort. In otherwords, an owner is giving non-owners unfair advantage over other owners at that resort.LOL. I do feel the only thing pertinent to the DVC 7-11 month window that has changed is SSR. I guess we could argue it but there is just as much info to suggest the overall economy has done well, that may be changing but only in the last couple of months, not long enough to affect this equation. I have always said that the 7 month window is OK, just the way the system works, SSR or otherwise.

I also stand by my point that it takes time to schedule those 50 reservations, time that any other member there could call and reserve. If you can't call that early for some reason, that's the way it goes. BTW, I'm on record a number of times as saying DVC SHOULD track the points but until they do, however any issue is on them as should any complaints be. And I would agree with you that one owner who schedules 50 is the same as 50 who schedule one each.

[Sammie]

Yes, I have rented on occasson, but I am not a commercial renter at all. I do not own enough to be considered one (even if I rented all of my points - which I do not). I am not threatened at all. I just think that you are all think that renting is much more serious than it is.

Believe me if it had not reached serious levels DVC would have never gotten involved. They would have continued as they have in the past, looking the other way. Something has changed recently to warrant their involvement.

[Dean]

Dean: Yours are always the views I look for in any interesting/hot thread. The above statement really surprised me though and I don't agree; like it or not, it's what DVC is all about and the way it was sold to everyone - the ability to book elsewhere at 7 months.

Just because there is a new big resort which has changed the booking dynamic (allegedly - but I, like you, believe it to be so) cannot make anyone who plays by the rules less 'deserving' than those who bend/break the rules by 'morphing' points surely? :confused3I was partly pulling Chuck's chain. But I stand by the statement you quoted that says that even morphed points are as or more deserving than a NON owner at that resort. I am a big proponent of buy where you want to stay and don't count on getting in at the 7 month window and that there is no promise you will be able to do so. However, it's OK to disagree and certainly a position I can understand.

[Dean]

Believe me if it had not reached serious levels DVC would have never gotten involved. They would have continued as they have in the past, looking the other way. Something has changed recently to warrant their involvement.Maybe slower retail sales?

[Sammie]

Maybe slower retail sales?

No evidence of that. But I would guess that booking of DVC resorts with Central Reservations has slowed. Why pay rack rate with Disney, when you get the same unit dirt cheap by renting.

[mushpurple]

Disney is breaking sales records at their parks. They feel comfortable enough to raise ticket prices twice in one year. They are doing very well. Maybe someone new came in and said...I do not like all of this renting and they decided to change some things. With or without the commercial renters, renting will continue at a strong pace.

[waltfan1957]

They informed me they have been having this problem ever since SSR opened up...

wow now we are coaster thieves on top of everthing else


p.s. i know you are only joking

[starbox]

No evidence of that. But I would guess that booking of DVC resorts with Central Reservations has slowed. Why pay rack rate with Disney, when you get the same unit dirt cheap by renting.

Actually, the Orlando Sentinel reported this week that last year the resort occupancy was at 92% - extremely high - and that DME and MYW packages are credited with keeping guests staying on property and taking longer vacations. Disney is making a huge effort, across the board, to get guests staying in resorts on MYW packages - and they are fine-tuning their resort business to maximize profit. Professional renters are taking business away from Disney and taking back that business seems to be part of the overall plan to maximize Disney's occupancy and profit. (Especially since most of the rent-for-profit involves BCV,BWV and WLV - three resorts that also have Deluxe hotel rooms Disney would like to be selling.

I have a feeling that, within a few months, DVC will announce that member perks (like being able to get the DDP) will be offered with close to the same restrictions as the AP discount - you'll be able to get them only if you are or are traveling with a blue card carrying DVC member.

As for whether or not Disney is starting to pursue shutting down the professional rental business, I find it a very interesting coincidence that my WL for a prime holiday rental unit/date just came through.

[waltfan1957]

Remember the statement is compared to non owners at the 7 months window. So you're talking an owner at that resort even if the points in question aren't. IMO, giving them a leg up is certainly reasonable compared to someone who doesn't even own there. Still, it'd be better do keep the points linked to the original home resort. On a related note, the FL laws actually do no protect from having the points cross over, they actually specifically allow it in some cases. Any argument related to over selling is only applicable to the time that is actually SOLD at the resort, not how the points are used, at least legally. As I noted previously recently, there is actually one resort that works on points that does not have a home resort priority. So any points bought anywhere compete at day 1 of any reservation window. That system has a resort in FL and is on the DVC exchange list. Interesting you responded only to a minor point in the post but not the two main ones.

A lot of people see this as the main point and not a minor one

[waltfan1957]

Fine, I'll address the other issues as well.
SSR is not the only factor that has changed. Interest rates on loans, travel costs and the general economy has changed during the last two years, as well. People don't have as much discretionary spending $$ as they did. It costs more to just drive to and from work, to buy groceries, etc. Almost every cost of living has increased because of increased energy costs, but in most cases wages have not increased by te same percentages. It is just as plausible that those factors have increased the desire of some folks to reserve and rent the ressies during the 11 month window.

If a person calls and reserves 50 units on day one of the 11 month window, it does take that many units out of the pool available, just the same as if 50 individuals called to book the same thing. But using your own suggestion that "owners" should be more entitiled than non-owners, then you should also be opposed to that type of commercial renting, as the people who rent those pre-made ressies are NON members, not owners at that resort. In otherwords, an owner is giving non-owners unfair advantage over other owners at that resort.

Very well put :thumbsup2

[waltfan1957]

I have a feeling that, within a few months, DVC will announce that member perks (like being able to get the DDP) will be offered with close to the same restrictions as the AP discount - you'll be able to get them only if you are or are traveling with a blue card carrying DVC member.

I personally think thats just how it should be, but thats only my opinion

[Deb & Bill]

I wonder if Jim Lewis being promoted from General Manager of DVC to Vice President of DVC has anything to do with it. Was there a VP of DVC before?

[keys2kingdom]

See instead of discusssing the topic...

We say lets find a way to attack someone! I have not rented any points in a along time. And yes....I needed cash and had to raise some so I transferred the points....but that has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

I do not need to justify myself. I am not a commercial renter and will never be, but I defend my right to give my opinion.

Michelle,
For the record I wasn't attacking you, just saying that it looks like you have a hidden agenda in your "live and let live" comment. Of course you have a right to give your opinion (as do we all), but when you express that opinion you should expect that people will check out your backstory to see where that opinion is coming from. I now view you as a biased party, that's all I was saying.

[3DisneyKids]

Did you buy DVC because you rented from smw and then liked it? Then DVC gained a customer and this was a great way for you to try it out. THis is a benefit that is gained by renting time out.

Well, I can't say that renting from her made me buy DVC. We stayed 5 of us (littlest one was only 1, so we were "legal") in a studio at OKW. And although I like OKW (NOT resort bashing here, please realize)...it was not a great experience for us in terms of accommodations. We were packed, we were as far from the HH as possible, and at the time we were there, the main pool was closed for refurb. And studios, as you know, are not *that* much different than standard rooms, other than being a bit bigger and have the kitchenette alcove. And with no feature pool, it didn't have the feel of a deluxe resort. So at that time, I was not interested in DVC.

We still had a great trip, though...so great that I wanted to do *something* Disney every day...and thus, I found the DIS and began visiting and reading on a regular basis.

Eventually, I found my way here to the DVC forums and began reading all the threads as well as posting tons of questions (all of which were so kindly and patiently answered, thanks all....). Then we did another trip and rented from someone HERE...this time a 1 BR at SSR. Made all the difference in the world. Great acommodations, great feature pool, (I know, not everyone agrees...) and all the rest.

So, while I had a fine rental experience with smw, I do not credit her with bringing another DVC member in....I credit all of you DIS DVC'ers!

All that being said, I have no problem with those who rent their points. Having been on the other end of the transaction, it was a huge service to me. I am sure that over the next few decades of my contract there will be times when I will need to rent my own points (oh no! NOT go?!!?...lol). However, when a person is renting THAT much...yeah, now that I am a member, I don't like it. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite...but I look at it like this:

Right now I am waitlisted for a particular time and resort...if a commercial renter has booked out a bunch of rooms so that they can make money on them...and in turn I and other dues-paying members-- am being squeezed out, then that is a problem. Might some of these renters fall in love with DVC and buy in? Absolutely. But make no mistake--the commerical renter is not doing this in order to gain more members for DVC--they are only interested in making money off of something that is not intended for investment purposes.

Just my 2 cents....actually, considering how much I wrote...more like my quarter... :goodvibes

[JimMIA]

I have a feeling that, within a few months, DVC will announce that member perks (like being able to get the DDP) will be offered with close to the same restrictions as the AP discount - you'll be able to get them only if you are or are traveling with a blue card carrying DVC member. I think you are right, especially when they realize that now the members who rent are going to have to make numerous extra calls for DME, DDP, changing both DME and DDP, cancelling, etc. The change in their call policy doesn't really reduce renter calls that much, it just changes the voice on the other end of the line.

I was actually very surprised they let DVC renters get the DDP in the first place. Doing so just makes it possible for guests to avoid paying rack rate to Disney and buying park tickets they don't need.

Making such a policy change would be very easy to do with one email. Can you imagine the screams?

[keys2kingdom]

I wonder if Jim Lewis being promoted from General Manager of DVC to Vice President of DVC has anything to do with it. Was there a VP of DVC before?


Jim Lewis was General Manager/Vice President before, now with the recent promotion he is President.

[JimMIA]

I have a feeling that, within a few months, DVC will announce that member perks (like being able to get the DDP) will be offered with close to the same restrictions as the AP discount - you'll be able to get them only if you are or are traveling with a blue card carrying DVC member. Now that I think about it, why would Disney let renters use DME either? No revenue to them to offset the costs associated with DME...

[Deb & Bill]

Jim Lewis was General Manager/Vice President before, now with the recent promotion he is President.

I stand corrected. Thanks, I wasn't sure if he was now VP or P.

I was actually very surprised they let DVC renters get the DDP in the first place. Doing so just makes it possible for guests to avoid paying rack rate to Disney and buying park tickets they don't need.

Making such a policy change would be very easy to do with one email. Can you imagine the screams?...Now that I think about it, why would Disney let renters use DME either? No revenue to them to offset the costs associated with DME...

DVC (meaning us) must be paying for DME for DVC resorts. I agree about the DDP. I thought it was meant to be a member perk, not a DVC on points perk. Yep, the moan, groans and screams will be endless.

Hey, Jay, you want to suggest these to DVC? Or should I? ;)

[CarolMN]

Now that I think about it, why would Disney let renters use DME either? No revenue to them to offset the costs associated with DME...
DVC (meaning us) must be paying for DME for DVC resorts. I agree about the DDP. I thought it was meant to be a member perk, not a DVC on points perk. Yep, the moan, groans and screams will be endless.

I don't think DVC members are paying anything for DME and I doubt ME for the DVC resorts was ever intended to be a DVC member perk - but rather a perk for staying on site at a WDW resort.

No matter how the room is paid for, it is in Disney's best economic interest to keep guests on site. Thus, Disney gets more $$ spent on food, park tickets and souvenirs than if guests have a car and the means to easily go off site.

Best wishes -

[keys2kingdom]

Maybe this SMW person owns a lot of points? I do not think that that is necessarily a business. It is very easy for us to judge, but I read their ad and they specifically reference not being a business. It is also a fantastic, descriptive and honest well written Ebay post.

I noticed that there are any others who are on their selling a lot. I think a much bigger problem the many people who are just doing it on the disboards and other boards like it. There are many big players on here that I have noticed (even though someone referenced that there were none on here). They are not as a high profile as an Ebay ad, but that does not mean that they are not there.

I think availabilty would be a problem with or without the big players. Disney is getting busier and busier.


OK, you need to come clean and quit jerking everyones chain! You know full well that smw is a business because you have touted renting from them under their other name "funsavervacationhomes.com" AKA Arlene Wechsler AKA alwechsler on the DIS boards. Quit acting like you don't have any connection to smw, it's just silly! I'm starting to get a good laugh out of this.

[keys2kingdom]

And this is even better! You seem to be the same person

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=915256

Wow who'd have thunk it??

[JimMIA]

And this is even better! You seem to be the same person

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=915256

Wow who'd have thunk it?? :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

Talk about good catches! :cheer2: :cheer2: :cheer2:

[Deb & Bill]

Man, reading between the lines didn't catch that one. Good catch, Keys :rotfl2: !!

(Is someone slinking away into the sunset?) :lmao:

[JimMIA]

You know full well that smw is a business because you have touted renting from them under their other name "funsavervacationhomes.com" AKA Arlene Wechsler AKA alwechsler on the DIS boards. Quit acting like you don't have any connection to smw, it's just silly! I'm starting to get a good laugh out of this.I have a question for the mods. If keys2kingdom is correct, and someone has used aliases to shill for a comercial business like this...is that permissible under DIS rules.

I'm not thinking about enforcement issues, but just as policy...is that okay behavior?

[tmt martins]

And this is even better! You seem to be the same person

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=915256

Wow who'd have thunk it??


WOW so this is a business person with a few houses, many DVC points or buying up others cheap selling high.

Just the thing DVC is trying to hone in on .

GREAT DIG_UP K2K

Did you see this thread where they stated they have used their own web-sight as well and had good resultshttp://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=12687781#post12687781

[WDW LifeLong Fan]

And this is even better! You seem to be the same person

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=915256

Wow who'd have thunk it??


Nicely done. :worship:

[WebmasterDoc]

I have a question for the mods. If keys2kingdom is correct, and someone has used aliases to shill for a comercial business like this...is that permissible under DIS rules.

I'm not thinking about enforcement issues, but just as policy...is that okay behavior?

If we find on the Rent/Trade Board that someone is exceeding board limits by posting under multiple names- they will lose access to the board. Several have already had that happen. There are a number of posters who use different names when posting on the Rent/Trade Board than they use here on the other DVC Boards - some are even quite hypocritical about their comments regarding renting.

If someone violates ANY of the DIS site guidelines - and promoting commercial sites (unless they are a DIS sponsor) is a violation - they would be treated accordingly. There have been a number of posters who have violated site policy in this fashion and are no longer welcome to post - including some often mentioned here.

[tmt martins]

I have a question for the mods. If keys2kingdom is correct, and someone has used aliases to shill for a comercial business like this...is that permissible under DIS rules.

I'm not thinking about enforcement issues, but just as policy...is that okay behavior?


How about this on E-Bay this would be using a shill bid to provoke interest.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1053593

[keys2kingdom]

Did you see this thread where they stated they have used their own web-sight as well and had good resultshttp://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=12687781#post12687781


Yup, there's 3 or 4 like that. Nothing but the highest praise. For herself!!!!

LMAO

[cslittle999]

I do not think that anyone would have enough points in an 11 month window to book 50 rooms anywhere. If they did...they would not have much more book anything else. Do you think maybe we are making this situation much more extreme by thinking huge #s like that? Hot weeks are more points so, we are talkng about huge #s.
In one of the threads on this topic there is a posting where someone passed on that a commercial renter said he had access to 25000 points by having contracts under multiple names. If you had the money it really wouldn't be that hard to do.

[Y-ASK]

Sweet! What a great catch!

Y-ASK

[keys2kingdom]

If we find on the Rent/Trade Board that someone is exceeding board limits by posting under multiple names- they will lose access to the board. Several have already had that happen. There are a number of posters who use different names when posting on the Rent/Trade Board than they use here on the other DVC Boards - some are even quite hypocritical about their comments regarding renting.



Seeing all of that must make you pretty cynical. I know I sure have learned to take everything with a grain of salt. I'd be tempted to out every single one of those people, good thing I'm not a Mod. I'd be fired immediately.

[tmt martins]

Yup, there's 3 or 4 like that. Nothing but the highest praise. For herself!!!!

LMAO


Then there is the contant begging for family points at $8 or $9 then right back at have points avail at $11 .If thats not profiting from DVC I don't know what is.

Smart but against the rules.Then to come on here a defend and redirect to other things is just plane creepy.

[mushpurple]

Notice that there is no cohesive conversation that goes on here for long without someone attacking someone. I wish you all luck....

[castleri]

And this is even better! You seem to be the same person

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=915256

Wow who'd have thunk it??

After reading the list of posts it seems this person
apparently not only morphs points but names as well --great catch :thumbsup2

[Muushka]

popcorn:: Wow. This thread is MUCH better than any TV crime show!

Great detective work!!

For the record, I have been complaining for YEARS that people should not be allowed to book prime weeks and turn around and rent them.

Last Jan we booked a 1 BR at VWL for 2nd week of Dec. We changed our minds about the week that we were going and had to re-book (with no problem because it was still early). For about 10 seconds I thought about holding on to that reservation and selling it, but honestly I could not sleep at night if I was holding on to a reservation that another DVC member needed.
I do not know how people can do that to fellow members. Needless to say, that reservation went right back where it belonged, available to another member.

[Viki]

popcorn:: Wow. This thread is MUCH better than any TV crime show!



Ain't it the truth!!! :happytv: :happytv: :happytv:

[mushpurple]

Maybe you all think that you made some catch, but you are wrong. Not that you would believe me, but you are wrong. I just do not care and will not bother anymore.

[MissD]

BUying from someone does not make me them.

True, but having the same e-mail address might....

JMHO

[keys2kingdom]

BUying from someone does not make me them.

I wish you all luck....


True, but you and alwechsler seem to be using the same email address for replies. http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=915256
Why would alwechsler say that she has points available and then ask people to email her at mushpurple1@yahoo.com? Hmm Me thinks you slipped up and forgot to sign in to your other screen name before posting the 2nd reply. Smooth, very smooth. :thumbsup2

And thanks, we need all the luck we can get.

[LisaS]

And this is even better! You seem to be the same person

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=915256

Wow who'd have thunk it?? Wow. Good detective work! Couldn't find a Sherlock Holmes smiley so this will have to do: :magnify:

[minnie61650]

And this is even better! You seem to be the same person

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=915256

Wow who'd have thunk it??

WTG :thumbsup2
Great catch.
popcorn::

[keys2kingdom]

OK OP who wants to turn Arlene Wechsler of Lindenhurst NY over to the DVC police? Just kidding!! I've already spent WAY too much time on this thread.

[Dean]

A lot of people see this as the main point and not a minor oneThen complain to DVC to fix it, I wish they would as well. It is a minor point in my post though I realize the morphing is a major issue for many.

[Sammie]

I wonder if Jim Lewis being promoted from General Manager of DVC to Vice President of DVC has anything to do with it. Was there a VP of DVC before?


Yes George Aquel

[Mike]

True, but you and alwechsler seem to be using the same email address for replies. http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=915256
Why would alwechsler say that she has points available and then ask people to email her at mushpurple1@yahoo.com? Hmm Me thinks you slipped up and forgot to sign in to your other screen name before posting the 2nd reply. Smooth, very smooth. :thumbsup2


This is too funny ..... I am speechless ...... I can't even find a good Fonzi quote to add :rotfl:

Someone is being naughty and that someone got BUSTED :banana:

What a maroon :sad2:

This reminds me of a time back in high school when a friend copied a homework assignment from me ..... he copied everything including my name :confused3 The next day the teacher wanted to know why I turned in two assignments and he had not turned in his assigment :rotfl2:

Good work K2K :thumbsup2

OK ... now back to the topic of the thread ......

[DVCconvert]

I was partly pulling Chuck's chain.

Hardly a statement befitting such an intellect...

[TCPluto]

And this is even better! You seem to be the same person

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=915256

Wow who'd have thunk it??

Truly Classic!!!
_______________________________


mushpurple
Mouseketeer


Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 79 Points for Rent $11 per point

Any resort...

I can transfer or make a reservation. Please email me back at mushpurple1@yahoo.com.

__________________________________________________ ___________


alwechsler
Earning My Ears


Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 71 I still have points available for 2005 or 2006 use year.

Please email me at mushpurple1@yahoo.com

[TCPluto]

Maybe you all think that you made some catch, but you are wrong. Not that you would believe me, but you are wrong. I just do not care and will not bother anymore.


mushpurple
Mouseketeer


Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 79 Points for Rent $11 per point

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any resort...

I can transfer or make a reservation. Please email me back at mushpurple1@yahoo.com.





alwechsler
Earning My Ears


Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 71 I still have points available for 2005 or 2006 use year.

Please email me at mushpurple1@yahoo.com

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Maybe you somehow missed this MushP. This Alwechler person is trying to rent your points out, and posting YOUR OWN email for rental responses.

Not only has she (he?) hacked into your email account to retrieve these rental inquiries, but she has hacked into your DVC account! How did this go unnoticed??

The real answer, for all of us, is that you and AW are one in the same.... You self respond to your posts\with another user name to pump up your reputation and hopes of increasing buyer interest. Like someone else said, a classic (and illegal) schill game.

The gig's up, we got it.

[Mike]

The real answer, for all of us, is that you and AW are one in the same.... You self respond to your posts\with another user name to pump up your reputation and hopes of increasing buyer interest. Like someone else said, a classic (and illegal) schill game.

The gig's up, we got it.

Gee .... what do you think the odds are that this same scam is being run on smw's ebay account as well?!?!?!?

[tmt martins]

OK, you need to come clean and quit jerking everyones chain! You know full well that smw is a business because you have touted renting from them under their other name "funsavervacationhomes.com" AKA Arlene Wechsler AKA alwechsler on the DIS boards. Quit acting like you don't have any connection to smw, it's just silly! I'm starting to get a good laugh out of this.


Never mind I'm done my detecting if

[Johnnie Fedora]

No evidence of that. But I would guess that booking of DVC resorts with Central Reservations has slowed. Why pay rack rate with Disney, when you get the same unit dirt cheap by renting.
The real problem common in many rental transactions appears to be the foolish DVCers that are not charging enough for the deluxe accomodations they are renting.

Charging more for DVC rentals would:
1) likely send more timid renters directly to CRO (making Disney happy)

2) eliminate the "scoop-up and re-rent" commercial renter market...if you feed them popcorn:: they will keep coming back. (making DVCers happy)

3) reduce the "point morphing" as the profit is reduced in these transactions(making DVCers happy)

4) eliminate many of those "charity case" rental requests (making DVCers happy and making Disney happy b/c the "CCs" will now stay at a value or moderate)

5) allow members to feel better about their $$ decision to actually purchase DVC b/c so many renters are getting their home for an All-Star price. (making DVCers happy)

[2Princes2Princesses]

I looked at the auctions for smw, and most ended with buy it now. The one still there that didnt had 1 bid, so I dont see any pattern of shill bidding on Ebay. I had to look, I had someone shill bid on me and it really irked me. Fortunately, the woman actually used another account that had the same Ebay Id as her own, except 1 number was different. :rolleyes: So ebay allowed me to cancel. I noticed immediately when I looked at the bid history. New account, too.

Anyway, I give people the benefit of the doubt, mush.....but your "alter ago" aweschler has the same email as you, and ODDLY the same last name as the person on Ebay renting DVC multiple times per year since 2004. The same person you are defending as not a commercial renter.

At the very least, I dont think commercial renters on EBay should be allowed to use Disney's promotional pictures. Gymboree pulls auctions that "borrow" their pics. And I think they should.

Many DVC auctions in the last couple of years. How big is this roof you needed repaired??? :confused3

[2Princes2Princesses]

I thnk Disney has oversold Saratoga and has give away many more points in their incentives that can be used right away and that has greatly caused the problems with availability. A year and half 2 years ago availability was not a problem. Saratoga's introduction and subsequent selling has created an availability crunch. They were giving people points that they could use right away for a while since their buildings were not yet built in order to get people to buy it. In addition, most Saratoga owners are willing to stay there, but they would prefer to stay and Boardwalk, Beach Club or Wilderness Lodge.


BTW, I would like to commend you on the "when in a corner, blame it on SSR!" strategy here.

We actually prefer to stay at SSR. And you seem to be renting ressies there with no problems. :teeth:

Our short trip at BWV is to give it a try. We probably won't bother with trying for BCV or VWL, they book so fast. I would like to try OKW, though. Looks like such a pretty resort.

And unless you own at every resort, which I do admit is possible, I am slightly suspicious the "morphing" is working pretty well for you.

[keys2kingdom]

How big is this roof you needed repaired??? :confused3


Maybe SHE'S the one keeping BC/BCV from getting the shingles they need to repair their roof!! Her project is so huge there are no shingles left in Central Florida! ;)

[keys2kingdom]

This is too funny ..... I am speechless ...... I can't even find a good Fonzi quote to add :rotfl:



How about just a simple "ehhhh" and a double :thumbsup2 !

Classic Arthur Fonzarelli

[diznyfanatic]

I often look at eBay to see what's going on there with the DVC resale market, and I've often come across smw's auctions, but never looked at them since I'm not in the market to rent.

Anyway, since reading this thread, I confess I looked because I was curious to see if any of the weeks that they have up for auction are some of the same weeks that we've been waitlisted for for quite some time since becoming members and closing on our contracts.

Logically, I know that they've paid for their points the same as we have, and they could be using them for their own vacations during peak times anyway, but I can't get past the notion that the large amount of PRIME weeks being scooped up by ONE person to rent commercially could be spread out among SEVERAL people on the waitlist if they weren't renting commercially.

I'm also hopeful that when we have the full advantage of the 11 month window, booking won't be the problem that it has been for our first two scheduled trips as members.

Does anyone know who's the entity referred to at the top of their Me page that begins with "Marketing for XXX, inc"? Am I missing something or is that a blatant reference to their Rental business?

[keys2kingdom]

Logically, I know that they've paid for their points the same as we have,


Or maybe not, maybe they have had distressed points transferred into their account and laundered them for their rental purposes. Until recently I did not understand this process and now that I do it infuriates me! But it also infuriates me that Disney is unable/unwilling to rectify this situation by fixing their transfer tracking system.

[disneygrandma]

There's been a lot of talk about the E-Bay auctions by smw. However, these recent auctions that I looked at are for yet unspecified dates that will be determined by what the renters want, and availability. There are other sellers, such as disdvcer and boardwalkmagic, that are selling actual reservations for "sold-out" weeks. When you read thru the auctions for disdvcer, you will see that there are even more prime dates that have been reserved.

I found it both interesting and amusing the way this board connected smw to another poster on this thread. However, I find it curious that not much has been said about these other 2 commercial renters who have snagged these prime weeks to sell for profit.

On a side note, I received an email of a posting to this thread that was done yesterday, and it named several people that post on this board and are said to rent commercially. This person also stated that DVC has them on a "watch list". Several hours later I received another email of a posting that said "What ever happened to today's post from the person that called out some fellow DISers as abusers to the system. It named names and was gone an hour later. Maybe the Rentees have more pull then we all think." This person was right, that 1st post is no longer listed, as far as I can see. But I know it did exist because I have it in my email.

[TCPluto]

Maybe you all think that you made some catch, but you are wrong.

Mushie (or Aweschler, whomever is reading), you've been power renting as a commercial enterprise with the DVC properties for five years, according to your Ebay feedback.

Your continued denial is disappointing....

[jdyer]

This reminds me of a time back in high school when a friend copied a homework assignment from me ..... he copied everything including my name :confused3 The next day the teacher wanted to know why I turned in two assignments and he had not turned in his assigment

What a genius...sure to go far!

[Dean]

On a side note, I received an email of a posting to this thread that was done yesterday, and it named several people that post on this board and are said to rent commercially. This person also stated that DVC has them on a "watch list". Several hours later I received another email of a posting that said "What ever happened to today's post from the person that called out some fellow DISers as abusers to the system. It named names and was gone an hour later. Maybe the Rentees have more pull then we all think." This person was right, that 1st post is no longer listed, as far as I can see. But I know it did exist because I have it in my email.I believe that type of post would be against DIS rules and suspect it was pulled for that reason.

[minnie61650]

First of all I will admit that I am not a DVC owner, or renter. I am interested in becoming a DVC owner (if and when) a DVC is built on the monorail.

We looked into DVC years ago but I was not that interested.
I did tell DH at that time if one were built with monorail acess then I would buy.
To me the location of the home resort is the most important choice and I wanted mine on the monorail. When the rumor of a DVC at the Contemporary even had a reputable architectural firm post plans on their website I became very interested in learning more about DVC because I always said I would buy into the DVC when one was built with monorail access.
Just a little background info as to why I have been lurking on the DVC boards the last couple of weeks.

I have been watching DVC ebay auctions on and off for a few years now. (Even longer than I have been a DIS member.)

I buy a few small items and some Disney collectibles on ebay but would never make a large purchase on ebay.

It has bothered me that a few of sellers I see listing DVC on ebay seem to have access to a lot of DVC properties and I have often wondered how that affects the availability of units to DVC members.

I am watching these developments with interest since I am truly thinking of buying into DVC (if the DVC at the Contemporary becomes a reality) for my personal pleasure but I am trying to keep my eyes and ears wide open.

I am hoping we will hear an announcement for the CRV in October.
From what I read it will most likely be a year or so after an announcement before they go on sale. I have a lot of research to cover!

[NMW]

Or maybe not, maybe they have had distressed points transferred into their account and laundered them for their rental purposes. Until recently I did not understand this process and now that I do it infuriates me! But it also infuriates me that Disney is unable/unwilling to rectify this situation by fixing their transfer tracking system.


Until I started reading these threads, I didn't understand it either. It didn't make sense to me that points could be transferred and then magicly become points in another resort. Now I understand how it works and I think it's really very wrong. I hope people keep reporting commercial renters to DVC and that they do something about it. Something must have changed if they are concerned about it now and I think that's a good thing! I really hope DVC puts these people out of business.

I also agree with the people who said that getting the meal plan should be like the AP purchase in that you NEED to be a member. People seem to love this meal plan-I hardly ever read a dining review that didin't involve the meal plan. I think that would cut down on a lot of renting, especially during free dining periods.

I'm very happy that non-members can no longer call MS and that members are only allowed one transfer per year. I read how this policy may hurt some members (planning a family reunion for example) but I don't think there is any other way. I really don't understand why DVC can't track tranfers and keep the points with their respective resorts in the first place! That would solve most of the problems. :)

[starbox]

I am watching these developments with interest since I am truly thinking of buying into DVC (if the DVC at the Contemporary becomes a reality) for my personal pleasure but I am trying to keep my eyes and ears wide open.

I am hoping we will hear an announcement for the CRV in October.
From what I read it will most likely be a year or so after an announcement before they go on sale. I have a lot of research to cover!


I expect that an upcoming CRV is part of what is fueling Disney to get control of the rental market. I believe that CRV will be extremely popular/desirable for renters because the CR itself is outdated. I know some people love it as is, but even one of the CMs on our last trip said that the CR "needs" DVC more than DVC needs it because it is the one deluxe resort that CRO can't fill. To put it simply, CRO won't be able to compete with a mass of renters offering prime CRV units at discounts off rack rate because the CR hotel rooms are going to be less desirable than the DVC units. If it were not for the monorail, the CM I spoke with doubted CR would have survived at all.

The monorail is very attractive, as is the proximity to the MK. The preliminary designs for the villas look really nice. With a DVC upgrading and refurbishment - it could easily, easily become one of the most desirable spots on property - for everyone, not just for DVC members.

I think that Disney is looking ahead and trying to takes steps before the announcement of the next DVC to curtail a mass buy-in of renters. They are already stopping the transfers. As I said before, I think they'll stop offering DME and DDP to anyone not traveling with a DVC member in their party. I also think they'll fix the glitch that allows transfer points to get home resort priority. If push comes to shove, they could also enforce occupancy limits on reservations made under non-member names.

Disney has two goals:
1. Get guest to stay 5-10 days on property with a rack-ate MYW package.
or
2. Get guests to purchase DVC ownership.

Disney is currently offering select "upgrades" to DVC accommodations to "try it out" when guests purchase packages (we got a card in the mail with a pin code good for an upgrade to SSR when we paid for our POR vacation). They have had similar programs in the past. They have ways for guests to "try before they buy" that involve making reservations through CRO. TPTB are not going to allow mass renting to continue because it does nothing but cut into their bottom line and work against their two main goals.

[waltfan1957]

One last thing...When I rented a home from this person...it had nothing to do with Ebay...I had no idea that they were on Ebay. I got it from a web site called Florida Disney Homes and they gave me that web site. The people that I dealt with were Dan & Donna Lyne. Now that I look yes, that is the same person...it is a lot cheaper on Disney than I paid for it (which bothers me and makes me wonder if that was the case wqhen I rented).

I never even heard of morphing points until this web site.

Maybe you all think that you made some catch, but you are wrong. Not that you would believe me, but you are wrong. I just do not care and will not bother anymore.

you have been caught accept it

[Oreo Cookie]

I have a feeling that, within a few months, DVC will announce that member perks (like being able to get the DDP) will be offered with close to the same restrictions as the AP discount - you'll be able to get them only if you are or are traveling with a blue card carrying DVC member.



I think this is the way it should have been from the beginning, member perks are for members.

[Oreo Cookie]

And this is even better! You seem to be the same person

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=915256

Wow who'd have thunk it??

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

you are quite the detective :thumbsup2

[skibum]

This post is great entertainment. :surfweb:

[castleri]

Until I started reading these threads, I didn't understand it either.

I also agree with the people who said that getting the meal plan should be like the AP purchase in that you NEED to be a member. People seem to love this meal plan-I hardly ever read a dining review that didin't involve the meal plan. I think that would cut down on a lot of renting, especially during free dining periods.


I really don't understand why DVC can't track tranfers and keep the points with their respective resorts in the first place! That would solve most of the problems. :)

I don't understand what difference it will really make if DVC renters can't get the DDP during free dining, since they have to pay for it, except that the people who get free dining will not have as many people to vie with for ADRs. This year there are DVC people who have reservations at the value resorts to get the free dining but are not staying there- they are staying in their DVC unit on points for that period.

This may be our only trip using the DDP and we are doing it more for the convenience of not having to sort out that bill at the end of the meal or ask the server to do 5 separate ones.(our cost is over $2000). My DH and I are members- the rest of the people are family but only one lives at our address. With the all or nothing rule about DDP we would not be eligible if it worked like the AP. We also have a 2 BR and a Studio reserved so it might look like one of them is a rental since my DH and I are only listed in one of them. However if we stayed at another WDW resort we could all pay for the plan and not have any of us at the same address or better yet get "free" dining. I think trying to keep track of this might be worse than trying to keep track of those morphing points. I totally agree that Disney should be able to fix that glitch in the computer system so those points stay where they belong.

[CarolMN]

I don't understand what difference it will really make if DVC renters can't get the DDP during free dining, since they have to pay for it, except that the people who get free dining will not have as many people to vie with for ADRs. This year there are DVC people who have reservations at the value resorts to get the free dining but are not staying there- they are staying in their DVC unit on points for that period...(snip)... I took NMW's post to mean that if the DP was not available to those staying on rented points, it would cut down on the number of people who were interested in renting points from a DVC member.

Best wishes -

[LisaS]

There's been a lot of talk about the E-Bay auctions by smw. However, these recent auctions that I looked at are for yet unspecified dates that will be determined by what the renters want, and availability. There are other sellers, such as disdvcer and boardwalkmagic, that are selling actual reservations for "sold-out" weeks. When you read thru the auctions for disdvcer, you will see that there are even more prime dates that have been reserved.

I found it both interesting and amusing the way this board connected smw to another poster on this thread. However, I find it curious that not much has been said about these other 2 commercial renters who have snagged these prime weeks to sell for profit.As commercial renters go, SMW doesn't seem to be one of the worst ones out there if her recent auctions are any indication. She doesn't appear to be renting prebooked primetime reservations, for instance. But she has advertised on the R/T board for cheap points, in one instance stating she has a bigger group going than she originally thought and doesn't have enough points. If that "bigger group" were actually ebay customers rather than her own family, then that's dishonest. And she has been shilling for SMW's vacation home rental business on other forums here on the DIS, and for another Disney-related website that that has a big ad for that same business right on the home page. So while she may be the "best of a bad lot" compared to the bigger operators, she has been dishonest with her fellow DIS board members.

I am not against renting and if she was just renting her own points but using ebay to do so, no problem. I draw the line when people make deceptive posts on the R/T board to scoop up cheap points to re-rent, and the shilling for the vacation home business was really unacceptable.

But you're right. We should probably turn our efforts to figuring out the DIS board identities of the big ebay players! Anybody want to play detective?

[Lewisc]

AFAIK DVC doesn't pay Disney for DME or for allowing dining. Disney has set up DME, in part, to discourage guests from making towncar grocery stops and using a rental car to go offsite. Disney has set up dining as a way to encourage guests into staying on site. It gives a lot of food but also gets the guest to commit money.

There really isn't any other reason for Disney offering DME or MYW Dining to DVC guests;members or not. I can't picture Disney trying to differentiate between stays by members, members immediate family or renters. A more likely "solution" would be to just exclude all point stays from those programs. AFAIK MYW Dining was the first package offered to DVC member staying on points.

The issue isn't renters the issue is owners who book prime weesk on speculation. That's not even the problem so much as members who seem to have figured out a way to circumvent the 11 month home resort rule. THAT'S THE REAL COMPLAINT.

[tmt martins]

But you're right. We should probably turn our efforts to figuring out the DIS board identities of the big ebay players! Anybody want to play detective?

Well we know the SMW is a player here on the DIS and they have not even tried to hide who they are and what shills they use.

They own MANY DVC contacts and yet still ask for points on the cheap for family. They also have a web-sight listed and several vacation homes as well up on E-bay.

This is SO commercial it's not even funny. The question is whats DVD and DIS going to do about it.

[salmoneous]

AFAIK DVC doesn't pay Disney for DME or for allowing dining. Anyone know for sure. I've seen a number of posts on perks stating thye didn't think DVC isn't charged for them. But I'm assuming members can see most of what expenses go into dues, and that at least a few of you guys have gone through the numbers. Is there are charge anywhere for DVC, DME, AP discounts, etc?

[diznyfanatic]

Or maybe not, maybe they have had distressed points transferred into their account and laundered them for their rental purposes. Until recently I did not understand this process and now that I do it infuriates me! But it also infuriates me that Disney is unable/unwilling to rectify this situation by fixing their transfer tracking system.

So, when you combine "point morphing" with commercial renting, that is what is causing the majority of booking problems? Do the points being transferred in assume the home resort of the account they are being transferred into, rather than retaining their original home resort?

We closed on our first contract in the beginning of June and pretty much immediately added on and began to attempt to make reservations for our upcoming trips during the last week in October and for New Years Eve and Day and the first week of January.

I realize those are mega peak times and we got a late start due to the timing of when we closed, but out of 10 days we were needing, 5 of those were just days shy of being booked 7 months in advance, and only 2 of those days (right in the middle of course) were able to be booked at either one of our home resorts, for any type of room at all.

Two more of those days haven't come through at all for ANY room at ANY property. We are currently still waitlisted for New Year's Eve and New Year's Day for any resort.

We were able to piece together via waitlist for a 1 BDR all five nights of our October trip at OKW, which we also enjoyed very much, it would have just been really nice to be able to stay at our BWV home during F&W.

Like I said, I'm anxious to see what we will be able to book when we are able to take advantage of the full 11 month window for BWV and VWL.

[cslittle999]

Disney has two goals:
1. Get guest to stay 5-10 days on property with a rack-ate MYW package.
or
2. Get guests to purchase DVC ownership.


Disney is currently offering select "upgrades" to DVC accommodations to "try it out" when guests purchase packages (we got a card in the mail with a pin code good for an upgrade to SSR when we paid for our POR vacation). They have had similar programs in the past. They have ways for guests to "try before they buy" that involve making reservations through CRO. TPTB are not going to allow mass renting to continue because it does nothing but cut into their bottom line and work against their two main goals.
Another goal of Disney's is to keep you on-site. If you have the dining plan you are less likely to go somewhere off-property. It is not a coincidence that attendance is up at WDW but down at Universal.

The upgrades to SSR also allow Disney to rent out the POR room again. It is easier to fill a moderate than a deluxe if they are looking to maximize the number of people staying on-site.

[LisaS]

So, when you combine "point morphing" with commercial renting, that is what is causing the majority of booking problems?It's hard to say how big a factor point morphing is since only Disney knows how widespread the problem is. It is going on and it does contribute to the booking problems, especially when the people doing it are prebooking primetime reservations at the smaller resorts.

It's possible that by allowing only one transfer per use year, Disney can more easily track the home resort of transferred points and reduce the morphing problem. I would prefer to see them fix the problem properly rather than restrict honest DVC members from making the sort of transfers they occasionally need to do.

Do the points being transferred in assume the home resort of the account they are being transferred into, rather than retaining their original home resort?Yes that is the problem. Some posters have stated that there is some sort of notation made in the account of the person receiving the points, but if MS doesn't notice this there is nothing in the system to prevent those points being used at the 11-month window.

[keys2kingdom]

There's been a lot of talk about the E-Bay auctions by smw. However, these recent auctions that I looked at are for yet unspecified dates that will be determined by what the renters want, and availability. There are other sellers, such as disdvcer and boardwalkmagic, that are selling actual reservations for "sold-out" weeks. When you read thru the auctions for disdvcer, you will see that there are even more prime dates that have been reserved.

I found it both interesting and amusing the way this board connected smw to another poster on this thread. However, I find it curious that not much has been said about these other 2 commercial renters who have snagged these prime weeks to sell for profit.

On a side note, I received an email of a posting to this thread that was done yesterday, and it named several people that post on this board and are said to rent commercially. This person also stated that DVC has them on a "watch list". Several hours later I received another email of a posting that said "What ever happened to today's post from the person that called out some fellow DISers as abusers to the system. It named names and was gone an hour later. Maybe the Rentees have more pull then we all think." This person was right, that 1st post is no longer listed, as far as I can see. But I know it did exist because I have it in my email.


Oh believe me I'd LOVE to call out disdvcer!! Her auctions especially irk me as a BCV owner. I've been watching them lately and it's really an outrage. boardwalkmagic is the other one I've been watching so it's funny you should mention those two. I think the reason smw got so much attention was just because she had the nerve to post in this thread. Of course maybe disdvcer and boardwalkmagic have too........hmmm.......

[Deb & Bill]

You know what might be nice is for DVC to accept special requests for member to transfer more than once a year. The member would have to be staying with the large group in at least one of the villas and all villas would have to be for the same dates. If the member did not show up to stay in the villa, the member could be back charged rack rate for the villas that they had reserved. Or after they transferred the points into their account, they did not use them for a single stay (multiple villas), the points would be cancelled. Or if the names got changed to non-member (other than family members), the points would be cancelled.

I bet there would be all sorts of problems, but it might get around the concerns some members have with the one transfer in or out a year when they want to do a one time or infrequent large family event.

[Mike]

The question is whats DVD and DIS going to do about it.

Very good question. I think there is enough evidence in this thread for a moderator to take action against one certain poster ..... or would that be two certain posters :rotfl:

[CarolMN]

You know what might be nice is for DVC to accept special requests for member to transfer more than once a year. The member would have to be staying with the large group in at least one of the villas and all villas would have to be for the same dates. If the member did not show up to stay in the villa, the member could be back charged rack rate for the villas that they had reserved. Or after they transferred the points into their account, they did not use them for a single stay (multiple villas), the points would be cancelled. Or if the names got changed to non-member (other than family members), the points would be cancelled.

I bet there would be all sorts of problems, but it might get around the concerns some members have with the one transfer in or out a year when they want to do a one time or infrequent large family event.Respectfully, I think it would be administrative nightmare to implement the tracking you suggest.

I don't feel all that bad for the members who are trying to do big family reunions with their points via transfers. If they can't get enough points via one transfer, they can still rent reservations from other members for that one time event.

I understand that most would prefer to have control over the points, but I don't think Disney or DVC should get into the business of deciding who is "worthy" of getting an exception or what "purpose" for transferring is OK. That is just a recipe for constant arguments and policy challenges.

If I were the decision maker, I would allow unlimited transfers (either direction) between contracts that had the same home resort and same use year.

Best wishes -

[mikey1]

I live in the UK and very nearly booked through SMW on Ebay. It's only because I noticed this board that I realised I could do it a bit cheaper by advertising for a reservation here. After reading the whole of this thread, I realise that empathic as I am, to some posters I might be unpopular as an "outsider" (non DVC Member) trying to book accommodation for part of our family holiday, but I am left wondering now, is it better for me to go with the offers I've had from sellers with experience (in it for the money) or sellers of little evident experience (honestly have some free points to use up)? :confused3

[diznyfanatic]

It's hard to say how big a factor point morphing is since only Disney knows how widespread the problem is. It is going on and it does contribute to the booking problems, especially when the people doing it are prebooking primetime reservations at the smaller resorts.

It's possible that by allowing only one transfer per use year, Disney can more easily track the home resort of transferred points and reduce the morphing problem. I would prefer to see them fix the problem properly rather than restrict honest DVC members from making the sort of transfers they occasionally need to do.

Yes that is the problem. Some posters have stated that there is some sort of notation made in the account of the person receiving the points, but if MS doesn't notice this there is nothing in the system to prevent those points being used at the 11-month window.

Bolding mine. Thank you for the explanation.

You know, for a company the size of Disney, and for a company that is a major player in state of the art technology, and has access to the best of the best computer programmers in the world at their disposal, I have trouble understanding why their DVC computer systems appear to be so woefully inadequate and behind the times that this issue, among others, would pose such an apparent challenge to remedy.

[waltfan1957]

Until I started reading these threads, I didn't understand it either. It didn't make sense to me that points could be transferred and then magicly become points in another resort. Now I understand how it works and I think it's really very wrong. I hope people keep reporting commercial renters to DVC and that they do something about it. Something must have changed if they are concerned about it now and I think that's a good thing! I really hope DVC puts these people out of business. :)

I hope they do something as well but I am really dissapointed with Disney the fact that they have allowed it to get to this state is quite disturbing they must have been aware for some time now, but it seems only now it is hitting them in the pocket they are interested but have done nothing while DVC members have been unable to get the dates they want, we have been lucky so far and have always got what we wanted

[cslittle999]

Bolding mine. Thank you for the explanation.

You know, for a company the size of Disney, and for a company that is a major player in state of the art technology, and has access to the best of the best computer programmers in the world at their disposal, I have trouble understanding why their DVC computer systems appear to be so woefully inadequate and behind the times that this issue, among others, would pose such an apparent challenge to remedy.
I'm not all that surprised. Where I work (an educational software development company) there are two totally different groups that write software. One for internal use and the other for what we sell. One guess on which group has access to new technology and the best people. There is also this strange idea that it is okay for internal software to be less than the best. We use some truly hideous programs for our internal systems. Bad UI, awkward workflow, ...

[digitaltim]

I'm not all that surprised. Where I work (an educational software development company) there are two totally different groups that write software. One for internal use and the other for what we sell. One guess on which group has access to new technology and the best people. There is also this strange idea that it is okay for internal software to be less than the best. We use some truly hideous programs for our internal systems. Bad UI, awkward workflow, ...

I agree. Since there is no "profit" for internal software development, the bare minimum is invested in company software. It's not right, but I see it happen alot where I work.

[keys2kingdom]

This joker even links back to the DIS for his point chart!! Nice!!

I'm also digging the sidebar section to "Sell Points". Lovely.

Sounds like "David" needs a swift kick in the pants.



Hey all, check this out! This dude must be a DISer too! Check out how he references Caskbill's Site in his "Step 1" instructions. http://www.dvcrequest.com/rental_process.htm

[Chuck S]

I'm going to ask that you all please not speculate on who may own the many rental sites on the web. If you make accusations in the forums, and are wrong, it could lead to nasty PMs and emails to those falsely accused. It could also be considered a personal attack, and violating the DIS guidelines.

[minnie61650]

My goodness! I promise I will NEVER post anything like this again and I may NEVER lurk here ever again! I'm deleting the Dis from my favorites on all my computers immediately. I'm installing a virus on all my computers which will cause the hard drives to explode. I now also request that someone come over and tar and feather me. I have already called the police on myself and they assured me that they will give me 25 years in jail for the post. Can someone come over and kick my dog while we are at it? Any other punishment someone might want to inflict or is all this punishment enough? :rotfl:

Mushpurple,

You may be right. I don't know. I'm only relaying what the manager told me. Did the manager lie? I don't know. Is the manager uninformed? I don't know. In any event, if DVC does stuff about this, for me, I think it is a good idea to stop the commerical renters ONLY, not people who rent a few times a year which would be silly.

Here is the link on the one that was removed or canceled or hacked into by somone or maybe I hacked into ebay myself and did it, right or maybe I created the link and it really installs a virus on your computer? Again, I don't know with 110% certainty that it was removed because of my complaint, I can only relay what I know which I already did: http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Vacation-Boardwalk-Timeshare-Rental_

In the meantime, try decaf as I suggested.

I am sad. :(
I think Jay has left the DIS for good.
He is not accepting emails and I did try to PM him asking him not to leave and letting him know sometimes on threads like these members feelings get hurt.

I will keep hoping sometime soon he will log on and see my PM.

It is sad when nice people leave the DIS because others attack them. :sad2:

[keys2kingdom]

Wow Jay, this is quite the thread, over 10,000 hits in 4 days!

Love him or hate him that Jay knows how to start a thread!