DVC Response About Ebay Commercial Sellers

[Miz Diz]

WOW! I am a nonmember. I just paid for a resale contract that has not yet closed. Points expire in June. I have a trip planned in Dec and Feb and probably won't get to use my points because we have not closed and when we do, we'll have to get in the system.
So I have been considering renting my points via EBAY, otherwise they will not be used and if I can't use them, why not try to get a little back for my $10,000 since I will be paying out of pocket for my 2 upcoming trips?

You all are assuming that anyone who tries to rent on Ebay is a commercial renter.
If DVC is closing all ebay auctions - this is hardly fair for someone like me. I guess some people don't have anything better to do and feel they have to police the world.

I wonder if legally DVC can say you can rent the points and then pick and choose who can rent and who can not. If anyone feels the need to respond to this last comment, please only do so if you are an attorney who specializes in contract law. Thanks!

[minnie61650]

WOW! I am a nonmember. I just paid for a resale contract that has not yet closed. Points expire in June. I have a trip planned in Dec and Feb and probably won't get to use my points because we have not closed and when we do, we'll have to get in the system.
So I have been considering renting my points via EBAY, otherwise they will not be used and if I can't use them, why not try to get a little back for my $10,000 since I will be paying out of pocket for my 2 upcoming trips?

You all are assuming that anyone who tries to rent on Ebay is a commercial renter.
If DVC is closing all ebay auctions - this is hardly fair for someone like me. I guess some people don't have anything better to do and feel they have to police the world.

I wonder if legally DVC can say you can rent the points and then pick and choose who can rent and who can not. If anyone feels the need to respond to this last comment, please only do so if you are an attorney who specializes in contract law. Thanks!

Sorry,
I do not want you stressing over this.
I think you misunderstood what this thread is really about.
This thread was about commercial renters.
Not about the occasional renter.

Have fun at Disney! :wizard:

[kimberh]

I have read this in one night. Just Subscribing to see how it all ends up. Jay, I am glad that you are back.

[gjw007]

Welcome back Jay. Enlightening thread.

[Muushka]

Welcome back Jay. We missed you :sunny: .

I think you have achieved:

:stir: Master:stir: status!

Yours was probably THE most exciting thread we have had here in a very long time!

[Groucho]

Sorry,
I do not want you stressing over this.
I think you misunderstood what this thread is really about.
This thread was about commercial renters.
Not about the occasional renter.
Actually, I think it's more about the people who reserve a desirable time with no plans on using it themselves then go and rent that reservation.

I, for one, couldn't care less if someone wants to rent or eBay DVC points, no matter how many. But tying up desirable times solely for profit, at the expense of DVC members who want those times, is what bothers me.

[drakethib]

Actually, I think it's more about the people who reserve a desirable time with no plans on using it themselves then go and rent that reservation.

I, for one, couldn't care less if someone wants to rent or eBay DVC points, no matter how many. But tying up desirable times solely for profit, at the expense of DVC members who want those times, is what bothers me.


I agree 100% with this.

[TheRustyScupper]

1) I am sorry.
2) I just don't see the point.
3) A sold-out resort is a sold-out resort.
4) The room dates will be used by SOMEONE.
5) Who cares who owns the points and who occupies the room?
6) All of you have the same chance at reserving at the 11-mth window.
7) Some people jump on the ressie faster than others.

NOTE: I say get-over-it. If you want holidays either book them at 11-mth or buy somewhere you have a guaranteed week time period. DVC was meant to be flexible, not folks complain it is just that.

[drakethib]

1) I am sorry.
2) I just don't see the point.
3) A sold-out resort is a sold-out resort.
4) The room dates will be used by SOMEONE.
5) Who cares who owns the points and who occupies the room?
6) All of you have the same chance at reserving at the 11-mth window.
7) Some people jump on the ressie faster than others.

NOTE: I say get-over-it. If you want holidays either book them at 11-mth or buy somewhere you have a guaranteed week time period. DVC was meant to be flexible, not folks complain it is just that.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I think it is BS that someone books out a high demand week for the sole purpose of renting it to someone else.

Yes I agree that everyone has the 11 month window but I don't think it is right when people do this and I feel they are screwing over other DVCers when they do so. YMMV.

At the same note, I don't see a problem with anyone renting thier own points that they won't use, but for a high demand season, I just dont think it is right.

[Jay Foster]

Thank you all for the welcomes!

As to Disney's response, I have been assured that while it is going slower than they would like, they are taking action against the commercial renters (again, I emphasize commercial). I think Ms. Wechsler and others are going to have some problems with their businesses in the future. I was advised that they have and will cancel reservations for those who buy from commercial renters so to the renters out there: buyer beware. So, I think the post from Twinkle is probably correct: they have already canceled reservations for those operating this as a business. I do think it is important to voice your opinion to Disney about the commercial renters so sending them an email cannot hurt. This thread was very eye-opening for me as to how bad the problem really is and how people who are using DVC as a business respond on threads like this.

[Caskbill]

1) NOTE: I say get-over-it. If you want holidays either book them at 11-mth or buy somewhere you have a guaranteed week time period. DVC was meant to be flexible, not folks complain it is just that. The point is simple: DVC is meant to be flexible for owners to use their own points to plan their own vacations. We purchased in 1993, and in our 13 year old POS it stated even back then that commercial renting was not allowed.

It's too bad DVC waited until now to actually start enforcing that rule.

[jennybobenny]

Response deleted because I'm not "an attorney who specializes in contract law."

[Y-ASK]

Response deleted because I'm not "an attorney who specializes in contract law."
Who cares who "Miz Diz" request a response from, this is a forum for everyone. Feel free to voice your opinion as you wish :).

Miz Diz, as long as you don't use registered trademarks without noteing that fact you should be fine in renting your points on E-Bay. Avoiding copying pictures from Disney websites, etc.

Y-ASK

Hi Jay!

[Groucho]

NOTE: I say get-over-it. If you want holidays either book them at 11-mth or buy somewhere you have a guaranteed week time period. DVC was meant to be flexible, not folks complain it is just that.
The problem is not too many people wanting the holidays, the problem is that there aren't as many holidays available as there should be because commercial renters like the Welschers would use their thousands of points to book up many rooms on desirable dates, probably on the day they became available.

Those are rooms that DVC members should have the ability to use. Instead, they're gone. That meant fewer rooms available at peak times for people who should have a shot at them. Essentially "scalping" the reservations.

[Jay Foster]

Miz Diz, as long as you don't use registered trademarks without noteing that fact you should be fine in renting your points on E-Bay. Avoiding copying pictures from Disney websites, etc.

Y-ASK

Hi Jay!


Hey,

I have never seen a thread go like this one, some really interesting work done by the people on this thread. I do think based on my conversations, etc. with Disney that you are correct that it is not a problem to rent your points. It is a problem when you are a business and use dvc as such. The Wechslers and Paul and Lind Borgia are prime examples. I am watching with interest to see what ultimately happens. I do think the Borsteins/Wechslers have already set up again under different user names.

[rantnnravin]

The problem is not too many people wanting the holidays, the problem is that there aren't as many holidays available as there should be because commercial renters like the Welschers would use their thousands of points to book up many rooms on desirable dates, probably on the day they became available.

Those are rooms that DVC members should have the ability to use. Instead, they're gone. That meant fewer rooms available at peak times for people who should have a shot at them. Essentially "scalping" the reservations.

what if DVC instituted a policy during peak seasons where once booked under a certain name, the name cannot be changed?
The person on the original reservation is the one who stays there.
Thus eliminating booking "on speculation"

[drakethib]

what if DVC instituted a policy during peak seasons where once booked under a certain name, the name cannot be changed?
The person on the original reservation is the one who stays there.
Thus eliminating booking "on speculation"

I like it.

Must show proof of ID.

[Y-ASK]

I do think based on my conversations, etc. with Disney that you are correct that it is not a problem to rent your points. It is a problem when you are a business and use dvc as such. The Wechslers and Paul and Lind Borgia are prime examples. I am watching with interest to see what ultimately happens. I do think the Borsteins/Wechslers have already set up again under different user names.
Probably so and I think we are beginning to see a transition of sorts of the commerical renter. I don't think I've ever seen this many re-sales at the timeshare store as there are for sale right now. I don't know if DVC's crack down is the cause but it sure looks that way.

Y-ASK

[Miz Diz]

Who cares who "Miz Diz" request a response from, this is a forum for everyone. Feel free to voice your opinion as you wish :).

Miz Diz, as long as you don't use registered trademarks without noteing that fact you should be fine in renting your points on E-Bay. Avoiding copying pictures from Disney websites, etc.

Y-ASK

Hi Jay!

That's right - feel free to voice your response. My point being on the lawyer comment - Lots of people try to answer questions that they don't know anything about or they think they know what they are talking about and they don't. (Actually I have talked to attorneys before and have known the law better than them - LOL) My remark about - can Disney pick and choose who can rent and who can not was not a smart aleck remark - I seriously wonder what the law is on that. I know "only a lawyer reply" comment sounds smart aleck, but if any comments are made on that I would personally like it from an expert. Sorry if I offended anyone.

I realize most of the complaints here are about commercial renters, but the OP said that DVC took ALL ebay auctions off. So if some of those auctions were not commercial renters, that would mean their listing was taken off, as well. Does this mean DVC is ok with non commercial renters renting to friends or on this board, just not on EBAY?

[Sammie]

That's right - feel free to voice your response. My point being on the lawyer comment - Lots of people try to answer questions that they don't know anything about or they think they know what they are talking about and they don't

Well gee, if we stop that, there goes the DIS. :rotfl:

[Doctor P]

That's right - feel free to voice your response. My point being on the lawyer comment - Lots of people try to answer questions that they don't know anything about or they think they know what they are talking about and they don't. (Actually I have talked to attorneys before and have known the law better than them - LOL) My remark about - can Disney pick and choose who can rent and who can not was not a smart aleck remark - I seriously wonder what the law is on that. I know "only a lawyer reply" comment sounds smart aleck, but if any comments are made on that I would personally like it from an expert. Sorry if I offended anyone.

I realize most of the complaints here are about commercial renters, but the OP said that DVC took ALL ebay auctions off. So if some of those auctions were not commercial renters, that would mean their listing was taken off, as well. Does this mean DVC is ok with non commercial renters renting to friends or on this board, just not on EBAY?

You are making the assumption that the Ebay listings were removed due to this policy. First of all, I don't think ALL Ebay listings were removed (some were still up there after this was reported, though there were many fewer listings). It is my understanding that many of those that were removed were issues of protecting Disney's intellectual property (copyrights and trademarks).

[Groucho]

what if DVC instituted a policy during peak seasons where once booked under a certain name, the name cannot be changed?
The person on the original reservation is the one who stays there.
Thus eliminating booking "on speculation"
I think I actually suggested that somewhere earlier in this thread (or one of the similar "commercial renting" threads - it's been a couple months!). The downside is that it might be trickier for someone setting up an extended family vacation.

I think the best would be, you're allowed to change a reservation once per year. (Calendar year, use year, whatever.) That would give room for people who are booking for big family gathering but not everyone's signed on for sure, or if somebody backs out at the last minute and another goes in their place, but would keep the commercial renters from tying up big blocks of rooms.

Granted - for folks like the Wechslers, they could still do maybe 3-4 (with the different names they used, plus the "Wechsler Children Trust :sad2: ) but it would still make a big difference and take away a lot of the profit potential.

It doesn't look like the OC Comptroller site shows when you sell something... it'd be really interesting to see if some of our favorite people have truly been unloading their contracts.

[JCW]

It doesn't look like the OC Comptroller site shows when you sell something... it'd be really interesting to see if some of our favorite people have truly been unloading their contracts.

I haven't been in the OC Comptroller site in a while (not since this thread originally started) but if I remember correctly, it will show the documents of the sale (maybe only sometimes?). A friend of mine sold their DVC and there was a doc showing the date of the sale and the parties that contracted the sale.

I will have to do some detective work to confirm this, unless someone else can confirm? :thumbsup2

[JCW]

Ok, I just went back to the comptroller's site and found the sale document for our friends DVC contract. The document is titled 'Warranty Deed' and it lists the names of the parties, date of sale, property sold and the amount it was sold for (along with a lot of other legal stuff).

Now I don't know if all sales are listed or not (what if Disney excersised ROFR), but I would think everything needs to be recorded somewhere/somehow.

I am no expert in this stuff. I am only telling you what I found for one person's sale.

Any others out there that know someone who sold their DVC? Maybe you could check the site to see if a Warranty Deed is filed there as well? Just a thought.

[LisaS]

I realize most of the complaints here are about commercial renters, but the OP said that DVC took ALL ebay auctions off. So if some of those auctions were not commercial renters, that would mean their listing was taken off, as well. Does this mean DVC is ok with non commercial renters renting to friends or on this board, just not on EBAY?As I recall, the ebay listings of the family identified in this thread disappeared entirely but some other ebayers kept their listings going but edited them to remove copyrighted content (images lifted from Disney's own websites). Those that stayed have continued to use ebay to rent DVC reservations. Just do an ebay search for some of the other ebay usernames listed in previous post on this thread, or search by DVC resort name.

[littlestar]

If you think about it, Disney can probably get a pretty good idea about a possible point renting business by looking at a person's account records.

[Miz Diz]

You are making the assumption that the Ebay listings were removed due to this policy. First of all, I don't think ALL Ebay listings were removed (some were still up there after this was reported, though there were many fewer listings). It is my understanding that many of those that were removed were issues of protecting Disney's intellectual property (copyrights and trademarks).

I made that assumption because that is what the OP said, didn't he?

Anyway, I guess all this debate doesn't really involve me so much since I have a small contract and if I can not use the points before they expire, I will either rent to a friend or give to a family member.

At this point, I have closed, but not even in the system yet. By the time I can make a reservation, there probaby won't be any available.