TSS issue taken offline.

[JimFitz]

Deleted.............taking this item offline with TSS.

[drakethib]

Wow !!!


This is the first time I ever heard of anyone saying anything bad about the TTS.

I would contact Tom directly as if what you are saying is true, I am sure he would not tolerate it.

[Ms.Mouse]

What does the agreement say??? I'm not very knowledgable about buying/selling timeshare (which is why we decided to go through DVC) BUT, I would think that if you are selling property/timeshare that before this guy could have sold it, you must have made some sort of formal written agreement that you were selling it in the first place??? I would think people can't just take your property and sell it to someone else without a signature belonging to you allowing them to sell. What does the "fine print" say of whatever contract you had with them??? If there is no contract, I'd think you could leave it OR pull it off the market as you wished... AND if you didn't sign the papers saying you were sellling it, I'd think you can lift it off the market as you will.




Sorry you ended up having problems. Let us know how this ends for you...Hope all goes well.

[DiznEeyore]

Wow!! What a pain!! We've dealt with them several times and had no problems ... I'm really surprised they're doing this!

I can't imagine why they'd feel they could pursue something since a) you'd already pulled your listing via voicemail (that should predate anything they called you with afterward) and b) you hadn't signed anything as far as agreeing to that specific sale.

I could see if you'd already agreed to the sale, filled out the initial paperwork, and were just waiting for closing... But to be all up in arms and contacting lawyers in a case of crossed wires?? Not cool.

Please let us know how things turn out!

[JimMIA]

I was on the other end of that same scenario the first time I tried to buy resale.

A contract was listed by a broker in good faith.

I offered the listing price, and that should have been a deal because the seller had a contract with the realtor to complete the sale if someone offered to pay the listing price.

But my seller was unscrupulous and tried to reneg on their agreement.

The broker had listed the property in good faith, and I had made an offer in good faith, so the broker tried to enforce the contract -- as they should have, because they have legal and ethical responsibilities to both parties under Florida law as a transaction broker.

Unfortunately, my seller lived in Argentina and we could not enforce the contracts.

Sounds like you were not so lucky.

Good luck with your lawsuit.

[checkwriter]

In the normal course of most real estate transactions, the seller is basically soliciting an offer to buy. When the buyer makes that offer, it is the seller's to accept or reject. In that scenario, even if your listing was presented to a potential buyer, you have the power to reject the offer to buy. This way the seller retains the ability to change his/her mind up to the point the offer is accepted. This goes to some of the basic precepts of contract law.

You should take a close look at your agreement with the TSS. If it follows this model, then it seems that the TSS if off base in trying to force you into accepting the offer.

[LisaS]

I've only been on the other side of this and as a buyer and I must admit it never even occurred to me that the sellers might have a change of heart after listing the contract. I assumed they were as anxious to sell as I was to buy! So I'm just curious what options are open to the seller.

When someone lists their timeshare with TTS, isn't there some initial paperwork that the seller fills out and signs prior to the contract being listed for sale? At a minimum I would expect that things like the size of the contract and the asking price/point are all spelled out in writing. I would also expect there is something in the contract about whether or not the seller has the right to reject an offer or change his/her mind about selling the contract. There are a few people here who have listed contracts with TTS recently. Anyone care to enlighten the rest of us as to what is in the contract that the seller signs when listing a DVC contract with TTS?

[Beca]

Hmm...I have sold a couple of contracts via TTS. If I remember correctly, their contract states that you have the right to list with others and also to sell your contract yourself. However, I think you were supposed to notify them IN WRITING of your intent not to sell. I seem to remember reading (and, I do not have those contracts handy), that the rule was, if they found a buyer for you BEFORE they received word in writing of your intent to pull the listing, that you are still responsible for paying the broker fees for the sale of that contract.

I understand your frustration, but I feel you are trying to "strong arm" TTS by posting this on this site...that's not cool, either. Check your contract...there is VERY specific language governing this in your contract. If you followed it, you have nothing to worry about. If you did not....then you need to pay the broker fees. If there is no method mentioned about how you would notify TTS that the contract was no longer available, then a phone call would be fine.

Either way....if you really want to get this resolved, I would contact Tom Yeary personally (he is a frequent poster on this site). He is a very nice person. I just think you might draw many more bees with honey, instead of vinegar.

I wish you luck in resolving this,

Beca

[Dean]

I'd read your contract. Tom states the contracts are non exclusive. They can't force you to sell but depending on the terms, they might be due their commission in this situation. Still, if you notified them you didn't want to sell, I'd think they would accept that, esp. with the non exclusivity. Did you receive the paperwork. It does sound fishy that they would all of a sudden have a buyer and it'd have to be at your asking price since there were no negotiations. It also sounds strange they would be sending the paperwork without at least contacting you with an offer.

As presented, it sounds like Jason is trying to scare you to continue and I'm doubtful they really have a buyer. If they do, I'd look over the paperwork before you proceed, both the contract they are offering and the contract you signed to list with them.

[JimMIA]

Deleted because I appear to have been wrong.

[browniemtb]

Makes no sense!!!
As the owner of the property, and as others have said, you have the right to accept or reject the offer. Also they can't sell your interest with out a valid signature. Where is TTS going with this.....it will cost them more in legal fees than they probably would have made on the sale. Even if you have to notify them in writting the DVC is still yours..........defend yourself..
Brownie

Good Luck

[JimMIA]

Surely we all realize that we're only getting one part of one side of the story here. :rolleyes:

[DVCconvert]

we're only getting one part of one side of the story here

Exactly what I was thinking

[smjj]

You know, I am not going to comment one way or another on 'strong arm tatic' or the such. However, I think this is what the forums are all about. They are not just 'happy post places'. These forums are full of questions, concerns and gripes on MANY subjects that members have. Others comment and critisize or aggree. Thats the whole purpose of the forums itn't it? I mean, I read this post, I can now choose to believe the OP or not. Either way I am now a little more prone to read fine print or be more aware if we were to ever sell our Timeshare. We also purchased thru The Timeshare Store and it went very smoothly. The folks were very pleasant. Who is to say but I sure don't want this site to be sensored more than it needs to be just because some don't like the comments or post of others...smjj

[DisDaydreamer]

I would move up the ladder and talk to superiors. This doesn't make sense to bite the hand that feeds you. I agree this seems to be strong arming or at least a bluff, but I don't have all the facts. I understand your frustration and lack of recourse short of spending money with an attorney, but I am pretty uncomfortable with this thread. Anyway, I say go back to TTS and talk to the higher-ups in a sensible, future customer sort of way. Good Luck!

[sajetto]

You know, I am not going to comment one way or another on 'strong arm tatic' or the such. However, I think this is what the forums are all about. They are not just 'happy post places'. These forums are full of questions, concerns and gripes on MANY subjects that members have. Others comment and critisize or aggree. Thats the whole purpose of the forums itn't it? I mean, I read this post, I can now choose to believe the OP or not. Either way I am now a little more prone to read fine print or be more aware if we were to ever sell our Timeshare. We also purchased thru The Timeshare Store and it went very smoothly. The folks were very pleasant. Who is to say but I sure don't want this site to be sensored more than it needs to be just because some don't like the comments or post of others...smjj



You took the words right out of my mouth.

[browniemtb]

Surely we all realize that we're only getting one part of one side of the story here. :rolleyes:

Very good point................

[JimMIA]

Actually, now that I go back and look more carefully at Jim's OP, I think I was wrong. I believe it might be the ORIGINAL thread. Yesterday, the mods said they removed it pending review, and I can only assume they reviewed it and decided to let it continue.

I've edited my previous post to reflect my mistake.

[Disneyrsh]

Surely we all realize that we're only getting one part of one side of the story here. :rolleyes:

Oh yeah, my thought too. My second thought was that it's sure nice of the TSS to let him post on what is effectively "their" website.

Talk about spitting into the wind!

We had a very good experience with TSS, they were excellent.

[JimFitz]

::yes:: Especially when the mods removed the original thread, and then later locked a subsequent thread (not started by this OP) regarding their decision and stated their reasons for closing the original.

It gets to be a "What part of 'No' don't you understand?" exercise.

It's pretty hard to attribute good motives when a poster knows the target of their attack can't respond in a forum like this -- and has also been told several times, both publically and privately, that their actions are inappropriate.

JimMIA, get your facts straight. I opened this thread to state my frustration. I belong to many discussion boards with Sponsors, and they are able to respond to customer comments (good or bad) in the public forum. I in no way posted this knowing that TSS could not respond, and quite frankly I was shocked that the thread was immediately locked and that TSS would not be able to respond. I talked to the mod via PM and he told me he was investigating.....I was mad, but left it alone. Then, Rinkwide opened a thread asking if we (posters) we not allowed to bash sponsors. I posted my comment there that I was not happy. I did not repost the original thread and just posted that I was not happy.....but no specifics because I knew the Mod was working behind the scenes.

So what do you mean by "what part of no don't you understand"?????


To all other posters..... TSS is not mandating that I sell my timeshare. However the calls from them have been "where do you stand with signing the papers?" and I would repeatedly tell them I am not selling. They went the route of making me feel like I was obligated to sell and that I had to. When they finally realized that I was not going to sell (repeated emails from me) They then tell me they want their listing fee of $1800 dollars.

When I listed with them I repeatedly asked if we can we pull out and anytime and their salesman told me "yes, no problems". I wanted to keep my reservations opened and they said "sure, you dont have to sell if you don't want to". There was never any mention that I would be responsible for the listing fees if I decided not to. Their salesman said "let me fax you the paperwork so we can list it on our site". "We need you to sign this so we can list your property". I recieved the paperwork and signed and faxed back....did not see anything about being required to pay the listing fee if they found a seller, and from my conversation with the salesman I thought this was a signature formality in order to list.

I dont have my original paperwork. It was two pages that needed my name, address and telephone # in order to list the property and I just faxed back and that was it. It did not seem to list any legal information. I may have the paper work at my other office, but I would need to check.

I just find it funny that after I call and leave a vmail to delist my property, I get a call a day and a half later saying they found a buyer offering full price. This seems fishy, but may just be crossed wires.

In the end I looked at this like a real estate transaction where I would have the right not to sell to anyone I did not want to, and would not be liable for any fees.

[JimFitz]

Actually, now that I go back and look more carefully at Jim's OP, I think I was wrong. I believe it might be the ORIGINAL thread. Yesterday, the mods said they removed it pending review, and I can only assume they reviewed it and decided to let it continue.

I've edited my previous post to reflect my mistake.


Correct......I am not posting here because I know TSS can't. I am actually surprised that they are not allowed to since some many other message boards allow sponsors to respond to customer complaint.

[JimMIA]

JimMIA, get your facts straight. I opened this thread to state my frustration. I belong to many discussion boards with Sponsors, and they are able to respond to customer comments (good or bad) in the public forum. I in no way posted this knowing that TSS could not respond, and quite frankly I was shocked that the thread was immediately locked and that TSS would not be able to respond. I talked to the mod via PM and he told me he was investigating.....I was mad, but left it alone. Then, Rinkwide opened a thread asking if we (posters) we not allowed to bash sponsors. I posted my comment there that I was not happy. I did not repost the original thread and just posted that I was not happy.....but no specifics because I knew the Mod was working behind the scenes.

So what do you mean by "what part of no don't you understand"?????You and I were typing at the same time Jim. I realized that this was the original thread, which the mods have apparently decided to allow to continue, and I posted a retraction above.

I'm also well aware that you did not start the second thread, and said so in my earlier post.

[JimFitz]

Oh yeah, my thought too. My second thought was that it's sure nice of the TSS to let him post on what is effectively "their" website.

Talk about spitting into the wind!

We had a very good experience with TSS, they were excellent.

Yes, you are getting one side, I agree with that.

But spitting in the wind because they are allowing me to post on their site? I thought this was owned by Disboards and TSS is just a sponsor.

My purchase with them was excellent. My sale was a different story.

[JimMIA]

My advice to you would be to calm down and work out something agreeable with TTS.

I know you say you don't have the listing contract and don't remember what you signed, but that's not a very compelling legal argument. Also, an after-hours voice mail message would be impossible to produce as evidence.

Every listing contract I've ever seen contained a clause like Dean and Beca referenced, requiring the seller to pay the full commission if they decline an offer at the listing price. Whether that language is in what you signed, I don't know. But if it is, your position is pretty weak.

Also, just FYI, in Florida the normal method of handling a claim for $1,800 would be small claims court. No lawyers are required. There would be a few hundred dollars in fees and costs involved, but those could be recouped in the judgement. If someone was successful in getting a judgement and then unable to collect, they could place a lien on any property they could locate. I don't think a realtor would have any difficulty finding some property to file a lien against.

[JimFitz]

My advice to you would be to calm down and work out something agreeable with TTS.

I know you say you don't have the listing contract and don't remember what you signed, but that's not a very compelling legal argument. Also, an after-hours voice mail message would be impossible to produce as evidence.

Every listing contract I've ever seen contained a clause like Dean and Beca referenced, requiring the seller to pay the full commission if they decline an offer at the listing price. Whether that language is in what you signed, I don't know. But if it is, your position is pretty weak.

Also, just FYI, in Florida the normal method of handling a claim for $1,800 would be small claims court. No lawyers are required. There would be a few hundred dollars in fees and costs involved, but those could be recouped in the judgement. If someone was successful in getting a judgement and then unable to collect, they could place a lien on any property they could locate. I don't think a realtor would have any difficulty finding some property to file a lien against.

Luckily the majority of my phone coversations were done at my place of business and all conversations are recorded and held for over 6 months. I can just have our telephony guys pull the tape.

[Disneyrsh]

it's all gotten so, so ugly. :sad2:

[JimFitz]

You bought a timeshare for thousands of dollars and LOST THE PAPER WORK? Paperwork that "seemed" to not have any legal information on it. Seemed?

A verbal agreement is worth the paper it's printed on.

A timeshare purchase is absolutely like a real estate transaction, you sign things, you're contracturally obligated. There are many instances where you WILL be forced to sell in a RE transaction, even if you don't want to, or risk thousands in penalties.

The minute you wrote that you didn't have the original paperwork, it was very, very obvious to me that you just don't understand the contract you've entered into. :rolleyes1

Having dealt with several real estate transactions, including a timeshare at TSS, I loathe sellers like you. Uninformed and careless, it's a disaster for buyers and RE agents.

Wait....read my posts. I was not buying, I was selling. I have all of the original paperwork from my purchase, and the purchase was fine. The paper they sent to me was a form for my name and address and authorizing them to list my item for sale on their website. It was faxed to me and told me to fax it back ASAP so they can list the property. I did not accept any offers from anyone. I did not get any offers and did not sign a contract to sell my property.

Are you getting it?

[Disneyrsh]

it's all gotten so, so ugly. :sad2:

[JimFitz]

You bought a timeshare for thousands of dollars and LOST THE PAPER WORK? Paperwork that "seemed" to not have any legal information on it. Seemed?

A verbal agreement is worth the paper it's printed on.

A timeshare purchase is absolutely like a real estate transaction, you sign things, you're contracturally obligated. There are many instances where you WILL be forced to sell in a RE transaction, even if you don't want to, or risk thousands in penalties.

The minute you wrote that you didn't have the original paperwork, it was very, very obvious to me that you just don't understand the contract you've entered into. :rolleyes1

Having dealt with several real estate transactions, including a timeshare at TSS, I loathe sellers like you. Uninformed and careless, it's a disaster for buyers and RE agents.


Also, I have done many of RE transactions in the past and this is the first one I ever had a problem with. I am forced to pay for a service that was not completed? They listed my property, but I decided not to sell. Why should I have to pay a fee????

[Disneyrsh]

Also, I have done many of RE transactions in the past and this is the first one I ever had a problem with. I am forced to pay for a service that was not completed? They listed my property, but I decided not to sell. Why should I have to pay a fee????

I think the best course of action for you would be to consult a real estate attorney.

Stuff like this makes me too mad to post effectively. pirate:

[JimFitz]

I know you're the seller, hence the " I loathe sellers like you" comment.

You DID sign a contract for them to sell your property when you signed the listing agreement.

You may not understand this because you LOST it, but that's what a listing agreement is.

When they brought you a buyer in good faith you rejected it. Now TSS has specific rights to come after you.

I absolutely "get it".

Then why did their salesman fail to inform me that I would be required to pay a fee if I did not choose to sell. This was brought up during the conversations numerous times and all I got was :sure, no problem....your not required to sell". Never a mention of their fee.

As far as loosing the paperwork, I think its in my other office. However, this paperwork did not seem like a formal contract at all....looked more like a customer information sheet than anyhting else. I have seen many contracts in my days and have bought a sold a large amount of commercial real estate. Have I sold timeshares, no. However, I was not under the impression that you are responsible for a comission when you decide not to sell.

Do you do standard RE transactions?

[Chuck S]

Also, I have done many of RE transactions in the past and this is the first one I ever had a problem with. I am forced to pay for a service that was not completed? They listed my property, but I decided not to sell. Why should I have to pay a fee????

Actually, I think here is where most folks take exception...because real estate laws vary state to state. And they may also vary depending on whether it is a timeshare, regular home, or commercial property.

Most of us have dealt with buying/selling a home. In many (perhaps most) states, once a RE agent has an agreement to list your home, they have provided a service to you by listing it, and are entitiled to reasonable expenses for doing so. If they present you with an offer at your asking price, they have fullfilled their obligation to you as the seller. You always have the "right" to withdraw your property from sale, but in most home instances RE agents that have contact with a buyer are entitiled to their commission whether you proceed with the sale or not.

Apparently, Florida law or your listing agreement/contract with TSS does not specify that, which really seems odd to most of us. I think now we can understand why some timeshare resellers ask for an upfront fee to list a property.

[JimMIA]

Apparently, Florida law or your listing agreement/contract with TSS does not specify that, which really seems odd to most of us. I think now we can understand why some timeshare resellers ask for an upfront fee to list a property.It's not a question of Florida law. I've listed and sold a number of properties here and every contract I've ever seen in Florida has contained a provision whereby the realtor earns their full commission if they get an offer at the listing price and the seller declines it.

I don't know of any requirement for such a clause in Florida law, but it's clearly standard business practice here (and everywhere else I've ever had any real estate dealings).

[jade1]

What a pain-great discussion for anyone on the fence to sell-be sure you know the details.

Just sell it-with the new rules you can buy it back in a few months for less anyway (saturation :rolleyes: ) or buy VCR-you know you want it. ;)

[JimMIA]

Luckily the majority of my phone coversations were done at my place of business and all conversations are recorded and held for over 6 months. I can just have our telephony guys pull the tape.
That would be an interesting legal question if you had to produce that evidence in Florida.

I'm assuming that CT is a single-party consent state, and that recording outgoing calls is legal there. Florida is an all-party consent state, and that is illegal here unless one of the parties to the call is a law enforcement official conducting a criminal investigation.

But...the recording would have been in CT, where it's apparently legal. I'd think the judge would allow it in, but you never know.

Of course, you'd have to produce both the recording and the techies in court. My guess is that would be pretty costly.

[JimFitz]

That would be an interesting legal question if you had to produce that evidence in Florida.

I'm assuming that CT is a single-party consent state, and that recording outgoing calls is legal there. Florida is an all-party consent state, and that is illegal here unless one of the parties to the call is a law enforcement official conducting a criminal investigation.

But...the recording would have been in CT, where it's apparently legal. I'd think the judge would allow it in, but you never know.

Of course, you'd have to produce both the recording and the techies in court. My guess is that would be pretty costly.


Jim, I don't know FLA RE law, but if you decide to sell your house in FLA, and list with an agent.......if you decide not to sell but they produced a buyer, your required to pay the commission?

[DiznEeyore]

Then why did their salesman fail to inform me that I would be required to pay a fee if I did not choose to sell. This was brought up during the conversations numerous times and all I got was :sure, no problem....your not required to sell". Never a mention of their fee.


Okay, so I just went and pulled out my TSS listing agreement. Under "General Conditions", item #2 reads as follows (bold emphasis mine for clarity's sake):


"2. It is the owner's responsibility to contact The Timeshare Store, Inc. in writing if the property is no longer for sale. This will stop further efforts by us to secure a Buyer. If we submit a contract to you at full price, we have earned our commisson. If the property has been sold or taken off the market without written notice to us, we are due our full commission. Your signature on this document signifies agreement."


So, even though you notified them by phone, you apparently are not within the stipulations of the agreement you signed, and accordingly, do owe them the commission.

FWIW, we had a small contract listed with them once and decided after they brought us a buyer not to sell and immediately sent them a check for the commission (Dave Ramsey calls that "stupid tax").

HTH!! :)

[JimMIA]

Jim, I don't know FLA RE law, but if you decide to sell your house in FLA, and list with an agent.......if you decide not to sell but they produced a buyer, your required to pay the commission?
I've sold a number of properties here, and every property I've ever listed has had that provision in the listing contract. I don't think it's something that's in Florida Statutes; I think it's just standard business practice.

I've also sold properties in other states and seen the same language.

[DiznEeyore]

I've sold a number of properties here, and every property I've ever listed has had that provision in the listing contract. I don't think it's something that's in Florida Statutes; I think it's just standard business practice.


It is in the listing agreement. See my post above yours. ;)

[JimMIA]

"2. It is the owner's responsibility to contact The Timeshare Store, Inc. in writing if the property is no longer for sale. This will stop further efforts by us to secure a Buyer. If we submit a contract to you at full price, we have earned our commisson. If the property has been sold or taken off the market without written notice to us, we are due our full commission. Your signature on this document signifies agreement."This is the kind of language I'm talking about, although I have to tell you this is more straightforward and clear than most I've seen.

[bobbiwoz]

It doesn't seem like "strong arm" tactics to me.
Bobbi

[LisaS]

Then why did their salesman fail to inform me that I would be required to pay a fee if I did not choose to sell. This was brought up during the conversations numerous times and all I got was :sure, no problem....your not required to sell". Never a mention of their fee.If you had pulled the listing prior to them finding a buyer, then I expect you wouldn't owe them anything. If they found a buyer willing to pay your asking price, you could probably still back out of the deal but would owe TTS their commission for fulfilling their end of the contract. So you may not be required to sell, but you probably owe them a commission.

As far as loosing the paperwork, I think its in my other office. However, this paperwork did not seem like a formal contract at all....looked more like a customer information sheet than anyhting else. I have seen many contracts in my days and have bought a sold a large amount of commercial real estate. Have I sold timeshares, no. However, I was not under the impression that you are responsible for a comission when you decide not to sell.I think you should track down that paperwork to see exactly what you agreed to when you signed it.

[rinkwide]

No matter which side of the argument you're on, this discussion is an important one for all DVC members that might eventually be faced with selling a contract.

I think we all owe the DIS webmaster a tip of the cap for reinstating this thread. I expect it was a hard decision and I'm glad the right choice was made. :thumbsup2

[jarestel]

No matter which side of the argument you're on, this discussion is an important one for all DVC members that might eventually be faced with selling a contract.

This is probably the most significant post in the whole thread. Though I don't understand why anyone feels obligated to take sides in a dispute between JimFitz and TTS, nevertheless the issue is certainly one that DVC members should be aware of. I second rinkwide's tip of the cap to the DIS mods.

[prez65]

Never sign anything...even if it does not look like a formal contract..until you read and understand everything that is written. I do not care what the salesperson said...even if you have it on tape...what matters is whats in writting and that you signed after the phone conversation....

I get contracts signed all the time..part of my job.....I can not tell you how many people sign them without reading them....it baffles my mind!

[lillasmom]

No matter which side of the argument you're on, this discussion is an important one for all DVC members that might eventually be faced with selling a contract.

I think we all owe the DIS webmaster a tip of the cap for reinstating this thread. I expect it was a hard decision and I'm glad the right choice was made. :thumbsup2

Agreed! :thumbsup2 Ain't it great to be an American.... :woohoo:

[Doug7856]

This discussion really isn't fair to all parties involved. We are not the jury. We don't have access to all papers/contracts that were signed. One party is not even permitted to respond. I'm sorry there is disappointment with this issue on the part of the seller, but I don't think the posts attacking TTS are evenhanded since they are one-sided and in light of these limitations, I don’t think this is a fair forum. Just my opinion, please don’t be offended.

[ilovepooh]

I don't think it's "strong arming" to ask you to pay their commission. TTS worked hard to *sell* your timeshare, that's what you wanted them to do.


They have an EXCELLENT reputation and I feel that they are justified in asking you to pay for their time spent on your contract. I agree with another poster-it's like paying "stupid tax." JMHO.

[Sammie]

If the contract states you owe the commission and you are trying to get out of paying, then your bad.

If they are trying to pressure you into selling after you have let them know you are not interested any longer regardless of the commission owed, their bad.

[Sammie]

This discussion really isn't fair to all parties involved. We are not the jury. We don't have access to all papers/contracts that were signed. One party is not even permitted to respond. I'm sorry there is disappointment with this issue on the part of the seller, but I don't think the posts attacking TTS are evenhanded since they are one-sided and in light of these limitations, I don’t think this is a fair forum. Just my opinion, please don’t be offended.

Not taking sides with Jim or the TSS, as you stated all facts are not known. But as to not posting here, why is this different from anything posted here against Disney or DVC, or any other restuarant or limo service, etc. We only get one side of those stories.

[Deb & Bill]

I'm still wondering why they didn't return Jim's phone call where he left the message that he had decided not to sell prior to being notified of the sale, which appeared to be a few days later.

[WebmasterDoc]

... One party is not even permitted to respond. ...

Just to clarify, anyone may respond on this thread- including posters representing TTS. There is no prohibition regarding comment.

The OP has made it clear in this thread (hopefully in writing too) that he only wants response made thru his attorney -"I have contacted my attorney and notified him of the issue. I kindly request that you pursue this matter via my attorney ..."

IMO, there is no benefit of any response by TTS at this point and , as several have already pointed out, this may not be the best forum for any public airing anyway- especially if attorneys are already involved. I'm not too sure an internet discussion board is an effective place to try to resolve customer service complaints.

Hopefully, this is just a misunderstanding and an equitable solution to this matter can be worked out between the parties themselves - although it does point out the importance of understanding the rights and responsibilities of each party in any document signed.

[sajetto]

I disagree with you Doug. As all of you can see, when I posted only part of the information was disclosed. Now that this thread has been able to continue, others who have sold before have been able to provide excerpts from the contract. More and more information has come up and it is actually going in the favor of TTS. It would be in their best interest not to respond anyway because the issue is being solved without them. In this case they are able to let the OP make his own bed. Something tells me Jim may be scrambling to find that contract that he signed and will soon see that he has to pony up some cash ;)


I did want to add that if I were in Jim's position I would request to see the offer of full asking price in writing with all the signed parties on there before handing over that cash though.

[Disneyrsh]

it's all gotten so, so ugly. :sad2:

[LisaS]

In the end I looked at this like a real estate transaction where I would have the right not to sell to anyone I did not want to, and would not be liable for any fees.If TTS did operate this way, it would be a problem not just for them but for potential buyers as well. Let's say a seller lists a contract for $84/point and gets a buyer within 24-48 hours. The seller thinks, "hmm, I must be selling too low" so he rejects the offer to purchase at the listed price and relists the contract for $86/point (no penalty to the seller in doing so, so why not?) Let's say the buyer is not too happy about this but really wants the contract and agrees to pay the extra $2/point. So the seller thinks maybe they can squeeze the buyer a bit more and says "Sorry but I'm relisting for $88/point." I wouldn't want to be a buyer in a situation where there was no penalty to the seller to keep relisting the contract to see what the market will bear. (Good to be a seller under those rules but I'm not sure how many buyers will want to "play".)

Requiring a listing fee from the seller if a buyer is found who is willing the pay the asking price provides some protection to the buyer that the seller is serious about selling the contract.

[JimFitz]

I'm still wondering why they didn't return Jim's phone call where he left the message that he had decided not to sell prior to being notified of the sale, which appeared to be a few days later.


I am wondering the same.

[JimFitz]

FYI..............I am going to take this offline with TSS

[rinkwide]

...I did want to add that if I were in Jim's position I would request to see the offer of full asking price in writing with all the signed parties on there before handing over that cash...Wouldn't it be great if we could have a few words with this convenient mystery buyer. Love to hear that side of the story (provided he/she exists).

[JimMIA]

Let's say a seller lists a contract for $84/point and gets a buyer within 24-48 hours. The seller thinks, "hmm, I must be selling too low" so he rejects the offer to purchase at the listed price and relists the contract for $86/point In my first attempt at purchasing resale, this is precisely what the seller wanted to do. The advice I received from TTS was, "You can do this if you want, but I SURE WOULDN'T!" And I didn't. We canceled our offer and bought another contract...20 points larger and $1 less p/p than our original offer, so in reality that turkey paid most of our closing costs! :banana:

That buyer subsequently tried to re-list with TTS, but TTS declined the listing because of the buyer's unscrupulous conduct in the first deal.

[ETA: Jim's situation apparently was not similar to this, but mine was exactly on target with the example you gave.]

[bcvillastwo]

At some point the OP wrote the following.

Also, I have done many of RE transactions in the past and this is the first one I ever had a problem with. I am forced to pay for a service that was not completed? They listed my property, but I decided not to sell. Why should I have to pay a fee????

I've read through about 1/2 of the thread posts to date when I saw this comment from the OP. About 3 years ago I listed a property in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. The agent listed the property, showed the property, had interested parties, and was in the process of preparing an offer when someone in my family decided they wanted to live in the house and pay me rent. I immediately called the listing agent, explained that I had changed my mind about selling, explained the reason why, thanked them for their efforts and offered to pay any reasonable expense for their efforts on my behalf. They didn't kick up a fuss, told me that this kind of thing happens from time to time, and declined my offer to cover their reasonable expenses.

I know I don't know all of the facts and I certainly don't know both sides of this story but there appears to be something wrong somewhere in this story. I know nothing of the real estate laws in Florida and accordingly I will not comment on something I know nothing about.

With the said, I agree with many of those who have noted that buyers are under no obligation to accept an offer.

This is an interesting thread. I've enjoyed reading everyone's comments.

[browniemtb]

This was a very informative thread. I've learned more after reading all the posts and realize theres more to this story. I hope Jim finds his contract to settle this issue. If it states, like some have said, about the commission owed it then is a done deal.
Brownie

[JimMIA]

Wouldn't it be great if we could have a few words with this convenient mystery buyer. Love to hear that side of the story (provided he/she exists).From my reading of Jim's posts, I don't find any doubt in Jim's mind that there was a buyer. Apparently he received several phone calls from TTS asking for the return of the accepted offer, and he told them he wasn't accepting it because he'd decided not to sell...which is his right.

In fairness, I don't know why anyone other than Jim would question the legitimacy of a buyer if he doesn't...other than to lend a little drama to the discussion.

I read Jim's posts to say the issue is whether the offer came in before or after his phone mail message notifying them he'd changed his mind.

Granted a phone mail message might not meet the written notification requirement in the listing contract, but the timing of that would be critical to the resolution of the dispute. If the offer came in later and someone in the office just failed to pick up the phone mails, that's a very different situation than TTS having an offer in hand before he tried (albeit incorrectly) to cancel his listing.

[JimMIA]

FYI..............I am going to take this offline with TSSGood luck and I hope it works out for both parties. As rinkwide and others have said, this thread has certainly been beneficial, and I'm glad the mods let it go.

[Beca]

Just another note. I have listed three contracts for sale with TTS, and actually sold two thru them. Each time, I have received the same listing agreement as someone else posted....it states that I must notify TTS IN WRITING if I am removing the listing, or I will have to pay the listing fees (10%) when a buyer is found.

One time, I sold the listed contract thru another venue. I IMMEDIATELY called TTS, told them that the contract was no longer available, and asked them EXACTLY what I needed to write in my letter telling them it was no longer available. They told me, and I faxed it in immediately. It was removed, and I was never charged a penny from TTS. They never hassled me for anything...they were very nice!!

I do believe that TTS has an actual buyer, and I do believe that the OP was not in compliance with the listing contract HE signed. I also think that TTS is not "strong-arming" him to sell, they just want their 10% as promised.

People need to read their contracts.

:wave:

Beca

Beca

[Dean]

Jim, I don't know FLA RE law, but if you decide to sell your house in FLA, and list with an agent.......if you decide not to sell but they produced a buyer, your required to pay the commission?Generally yes technically. Jim, you didn't say, did they produce a full price offer from a real person? Have you seen the paperwork for that offer? A reputable company in this situation would stop at the point you called them and act accordingly. IMO, anything after that might or might not be technically legal but would certainly be unethical. It would be nice to get both sides and to hear the final outcome of this issue.

[keishashadow]

know nothing of fl. real estate/time share regulations or the contract that the OP signed...

do know what regs are in PA...

sales listing contracts are generally on a multi-list (few are high-end exclusive initial listings)for a stated period of time. Even then, Seller usually has the option to cancel after a few months...as stated in the contract. Agency/agent agrees to specific duties (advertising, presenting offers, etc.) & indicates who they represent seller or buyer agency.

Only once have I seen a seller "renege" on a deal going to closing. They were elderly & decided at the last minute that they couldn't bear to leave their home. A performance clause was invoked & the buyer settled for a monetary award...& the agency/agent did receive commisison...everyone was satisfied.

As for selling property in PA, unless the offer is full price, absolutely no contingencies (home inspection, cash in lieu of financing, no present home to sell, etc.) don't think you can force a commission to be paid. I have seen a seller brought to task for violating fair housing laws though.

Suggest that anyone cancelling a listing use registered mail, return receipt.

[Disneyrsh]

It would be nice to get both sides and to hear the final outcome of this issue.

I agree! Whoa, was that a pig that just went whizzing by my head? :teeth:

[John VN]

Just another note. I have listed three contracts for sale with TTS, and actually sold two thru them. Each time, I have received the same listing agreement as someone else posted....it states that I must notify TTS IN WRITING if I am removing the listing, or I will have to pay the listing fees (10%) when a buyer is found.

One time, I sold the listed contract thru another venue. I IMMEDIATELY called TTS, told them that the contract was no longer available, and asked them EXACTLY what I needed to write in my letter telling them it was no longer available. They told me, and I faxed it in immediately. It was removed, and I was never charged a penny from TTS. They never hassled me for anything...they were very nice!!

I do believe that TTS has an actual buyer, and I do believe that the OP was not in compliance with the listing contract HE signed. I also think that TTS is not "strong-arming" him to sell, they just want their 10% as promised.

People need to read their contracts.

:wave:

Beca

Beca

Got a headache reading all the replies.

I have a listing currently with TTS and I read the contract and put in bold type above the very important information I feel is pertinent to this thread. A phone call to TTS without a signed letter does not forgive the seller of the responsibility regarding the payment of the 10% fee.

[DVCconvert]

Deleted.............taking this item offline with TSS.

Just as well in my mind. While the underlying concern may deserve public comment...the speicfic 'gripe' ddin't....as you and others have said publically, that the other 50% of the 'issue' couldnot comment on the underlying concern.

[Dean]

Just as well in my mind. While the underlying concern may deserve public comment...the speicfic 'gripe' ddin't....as you and others have said publically, that the other 50% of the 'issue' couldnot comment on the underlying concern.Nothing is keeping TSS from posting their information other than their own choices. Unfortunately the concern can't be portrayed without much of the specifics.

[drakethib]

Jim, I don't know FLA RE law, but if you decide to sell your house in FLA, and list with an agent.......if you decide not to sell but they produced a buyer, your required to pay the commission?


I don't know about Florida, but I am pretty sure that is the case here in Texas.

I think it is a qualified buyer who has put down earnest money and signed a purchase agreement.

Maybe a Texas lawyer can enlighten me.