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crisi
08-02-2006, 01:47 PM
This arrived via email to most DVC members today:


Policies protect personal use and enjoyment
In a continuing effort to maximize Members' personal enjoyment of their Membership, Disney Vacation Club would like to remind Members about several related policies outlined in the Public Offering Statement and other Member documents.

As a reminder, published policies limit the use of accommodations and recreational facilities solely to the personal use and enjoyment of Owners, their lessees, Guests, exchangers and invitees and for recreational uses by corporations and other entities owning Ownership Interests in a Unit.

To maximize the availability of reservations for these permitted purposes, Disney Vacation Club closely monitors reservations and may cancel reserved accommodations if a pattern of rental activity for profit is discovered.

Additionally, current policies limit Vacation Point-transfer transactions to one transfer per Member or Membership, either as transferee or transferor, during a given Use Year.

"We want to ensure that Members have the greatest opportunity to enjoy the magic of Membership," said Leigh Anne Nieman, Director of Business Standards and Regulatory Affairs for Disney Vacation Club. "With that in mind, we're committed to maximizing the availability of Ownership Interests and accommodations for Members' personal enjoyment, and we're committed to enforcing the policies that help us deliver on that commitment."

It has always been the policy of Disney Vacation Club that Membership is designed specifically to provide long-term personal enjoyment, and Members shouldn't purchase their Membership as an appreciable short-term investment.


I'm a member and don't rent my points. I've also never rented points to stay. I know some budget boarders do rent points and I may have even recommended such a step in the past (it was a good way to get a deluxe room for a little more than a Value room rate if you were willing to take a small amount of risk). I would caution anyone currently thinking of renting points to know that DVC is reserving the right to cancel the reservation if they believe the member is engaging in a pattern of rental activity. If you've paid upfront for your points, you could be sitting in the BCV lobby with no room and Disney isn't going to do a darn thing for you except tell you to see if you can't get your money back from the member you rented from.

HayGan
08-02-2006, 01:53 PM
Well, one could argue that the statement "To maximize the availability of reservations for these permitted purposes, Disney Vacation Club closely monitors reservations and may cancel reserved accommodations if a pattern of rental activity for profit is discovered" is simply in regards to someone charging excessive fees for the accomodations or never using their points for themselves (over a significaicant period of time - like several years.

I don't know how they can enforce something like that if they state in the contracts that points can be rented out to non-members.

crisi
08-02-2006, 02:03 PM
Well, one could argue that the statement "To maximize the availability of reservations for these permitted purposes, Disney Vacation Club closely monitors reservations and may cancel reserved accommodations if a pattern of rental activity for profit is discovered" is simply in regards to someone charging excessive fees for the accomodations or never using their points for themselves (over a significaicant period of time - like several years.

I don't know how they can enforce something like that if they state in the contracts that points can be rented out to non-members.

They also state in their contracts that its not to be used for commercial purposes - and define commercial (in the SSR documents) as including "rental activity for profit." It isn't that hard to tell who the commercial renters are. They are the ones with a few thousand points, making a lot of reservations that are not in their names. The DVC board has a lot of threads about recent changes, and JimMIA points out that its easy to datamine using software looking for patterns that would indicate rental activity.

If you rent from someone who is trying to get rid of points they can't use this year, you'll be fine. As a renter, how are you going to know?

But everyone needs to make the decision for themselves. If you still feel its worth the risk to rent points, go for it. I wouldn't recommend it given this statement by DVC.

CarolA
08-02-2006, 02:15 PM
They also state in their contracts that its not to be used for commercial purposes - and define commercial (in the SSR documents) as including "rental activity for profit." It isn't that hard to tell who the commercial renters are. They are the ones with a few thousand points, making a lot of reservations that are not in their names. The DVC board has a lot of threads about recent changes, and JimMIA points out that its easy to datamine using software looking for patterns that would indicate rental activity.

If you rent from someone who is trying to get rid of points they can't use this year, you'll be fine. As a renter, how are you going to know?

But everyone needs to make the decision for themselves. If you still feel its worth the risk to rent points, go for it. I wouldn't recommend it given this statement by DVC.

One way to know is to look at the renters posts. I posted some points for rent last year. Every time I got a bite I went and did a search on the posters posting history. It was pretty easy to tell who the "professionals" were. They were posting to buy EVERYONE's points and then had several weeks etc. for rent. I just sent them a nice PM indicating that I perferred to rent to folks who were going to use the points for a "once in a lifetime" experience LOL!

(I actually wound up renting to my brother so nothing happend there)

If I had to do it again even before this change I would make the same decision. I figure if you actually did rent from me you would be fine. In the past five years I have had about two reservations with last names other then mine on them and in both of those I was actually also at the resort... not a real pattern there!

wdwstar
08-02-2006, 03:02 PM
I am going out on the limb here, i dont believe in our contracts that it states you can rent out points. I also believe it states that no money can be exchange for the points. I will pull out my contract and confirm these statements.

DMRick
08-02-2006, 03:11 PM
As a reminder, published policies limit the use of accommodations and recreational facilities solely to the personal use and enjoyment of Owners, their lessees, Guests, exchangers and invitees and for recreational uses by corporations and other entities owning Ownership Interests in a Unit.
I'm just curious, what does lessee mean? Isn't that someone you have rented to?

crisi
08-02-2006, 03:35 PM
I'm just curious, what does lessee mean? Isn't that someone you have rented to?

It does....Disney is apparently making a distiction between casual rental (I can't use my points this year and I'll rent them out) and someone running DVC rentals as a business. As Carol indicated, there are several people doing so - some on this board. Others renting through other boards and eBay.

If you rent through a casual renter, you should be fine, but you may have to do some research to figure it out. And it could be a bluff on Disney's part as well - part of me doubts they are going to start cancelling reservations. However, it adds a layer of risk to a process that was never risk free to start with.

CarolA
08-02-2006, 04:18 PM
I actually don't know if they will cancel reservations, but they may see if there is some way to take legal action against the renter or perhaps put him/her through the mill when he/she tries to reserve.

DianeV
08-02-2006, 07:35 PM
There is at least one lady on ebay who is doing this as a business. She overcharges alot compared to what most on here rent for ($10-$11/pt) - It sounds to me that is who DVC should be looking for

There have been a few on here I have questioned too..just because it was a "hot" time they take advantage and charge like double what most charge

Alice28
08-02-2006, 08:02 PM
Wow. I really don't know a lot about DVC, except that I was hoping to be able to rent some points from a kind DISer in 2008. I hope that it is still possible to do so then! I would love to stay at the WLV or the BCV for a few nights as a splurge!

tor
08-02-2006, 11:13 PM
Seems a little strange I am a member and they have my email but did not send it to me or a few other members I know I wonder if they are targeting specific members?

How does not allowing a member to sell their points maximize the availability?? If it is not rented presumably the owner would use it still blocking the space.

As far as targeting those charging exorbitant rates or excessive fees lets look at a day Thursday, Aug 24 at Beach Club in a studio it would be 13 points at $10 per point it is $130 at $20 per point it is $260 wich a good number of people here would cry robbery but it is a lot cheaper than the $340.85 that you would be charged by Disney if you go through the CRO. So then next time you book and ask if the renter will take less than $10 a point I say go call Disney and stay at the All Star and pay $125.43

barkley
08-03-2006, 12:46 AM
i'm not surprised, in fact i'm surprised that we have'nt gotten something that reminds us that we can only rent dvc properties and not the other resorts in the 'collection'. there are plenty of people who rent to stay at akl and disney land and thats a clear violation of our contracts.

i keep waiting for 's' to hit the fan when someone rents out points, the renter trashes the unit, and disney comes after the dvc member who owns the points.

barkley
08-03-2006, 12:49 AM
Seems a little strange I am a member and they have my email but did not send it to me or a few other members I know I wonder if they are targeting specific members?

How does not allowing a member to sell their points maximize the availability?? If it is not rented presumably the owner would use it still blocking the space.

As far as targeting those charging exorbitant rates or excessive fees lets look at a day Thursday, Aug 24 at Beach Club in a studio it would be 13 points at $10 per point it is $130 at $20 per point it is $260 wich a good number of people here would cry robbery but it is a lot cheaper than the $340.85 that you would be charged by Disney if you go through the CRO. So then next time you book and ask if the renter will take less than $10 a point I say go call Disney and stay at the All Star and pay $125.43

i think the theory is that it might prevent those all too frequent posts on the rental board for the peak weeks of demand. i detest the posts that say 'christmas week at boardwalk', 'easter week at vwl'-you know that it's the professional renters that snap these weeks up with no intention of going, but just grabbing them and renting them out (usualy) to another member who called and found the place booked solid.

JimMIA
08-03-2006, 07:33 AM
I don't expect the impact of this re-stated policy (there's nothing new here) to fall on the non-members renting reservations. IF DVC enforces it, the easy, painless, and fair way to enforce is to identify the problem commercial renters (and I'd bet a lot of them are NOT problematic) and just impede their activity.

If a commercial renter reserves Christmas week at VWL, when they go to change the names in October because they've rented it, MS just says, "Um...no. We've identified you as a commercial renter and we're not making that change for you. As a matter of fact, we're canceling that ressie."

Or, they identify the problem up front and just don't accept the ressie in the first place.

DVC doesn't want to hurt innocent non-members renting points -- they'd make Mickey look like The Grinch on crack!

CarolA
08-03-2006, 07:49 AM
Seems a little strange I am a member and they have my email but did not send it to me or a few other members I know I wonder if they are targeting specific members?

How does not allowing a member to sell their points maximize the availability?? If it is not rented presumably the owner would use it still blocking the space.

As far as targeting those charging exorbitant rates or excessive fees lets look at a day Thursday, Aug 24 at Beach Club in a studio it would be 13 points at $10 per point it is $130 at $20 per point it is $260 wich a good number of people here would cry robbery but it is a lot cheaper than the $340.85 that you would be charged by Disney if you go through the CRO. So then next time you book and ask if the renter will take less than $10 a point I say go call Disney and stay at the All Star and pay $125.43

Did you receive this month's Vacation Magic? This was not a "different" email it's in the normal mailing. (If you don't receive it go over to DVCmember.com sign in and check your profile for a valid email address)

As I read the LONG threads on the DVC board they believe it will open up rooms around the holidays. One of the "problems" with the DVC computer system appears to have been that if I "rent" SSR points from you and have them transferred to my BCV account they suddenly look like BCV. Then in January I call and book rooms for Christmas which I would not be able to get just with my personal BCV points. So the theory is that if those "professionals" can't use this loophole there will be more rooms at 7 months. We will see.

To me the exorbitant is where the poster comes on the rent/trade board and posts "My Great Aunt Mildred is dying and can only afford to pay $5 a point for the once in a lifetime trip" The poster then turns around and rents on Ebay for $20...Basically I would never rent to a sob story just becasue of the "rip offs" Sad isn't it?

tor
08-03-2006, 09:23 PM
I have to admit I get annoyed by people blocking the prime time as well, but I think only member services has the power to stop that because even if they blocked all listing of reservations here people would still book it knowing they will find someone that wants christmas or easter week. Perhaps as members we could work towards a rule change so you can not change the name on a prime time reservation without canceling similiar to the way they do not allow the swapping of points used on a reservation.