Is anyone else upset about this?

[wdwfreak]

I have been, and continue to be, a DIEHARD WDW fan. I love going to the parks, and it always gives me a special feeling to be in "the World". Naturally, as much as we go to WDW, we bought into DVC. We love DVC! We've only stayed at VWL, but our experience was Wonderful!!

However, all these cutbacks are starting to make us regret our decision. Some of the most special things about staying at a WDW resort have been taken away, under the (false) pretense of Security, etc. Gone are E-nights and Early Entry. I mean, I realize Disney doesn't have to offer these, but they are perks we've gotten used to, and to lie and say that security is the main reason for these two cutbacks (unfairly) plays on our fears. Disney is strictly trying to save a few bucks. Whenever, we've done EE or E-night, if nothing else, security (i.e. IDing who was getting into the parks) was only heightened because they checked passes and IDs to make sure you were a resort guest and had paid for the right to attend these functions.

To get rid of EE and E-Nights, with shortened parks hours, creates HUGE crowds, no matter what time of year it is. If the magic kingdom is only open for 9 hours a days, it is going to be congested no matter what, because this makes for less time for so many people to experiece the attractions.

As much as we love Disney, we have gone so far as to discuss selling our DVC interest, just because it doesn't seem like such a great deal anymore.

Does anyone else feel like this, or are we being unreasonable?

[BillM]

I guess it all depends on what your interests are. We have never done a E night or an EE and don't intend to. Park hours are always shortened in the winter months. Give credit to Disney for biting the bullet to make it thru this trying time. They need to run DW at a profit like any other company.

I don't have any problem at all with them doing what they have to do. We just closed on 50 more HH points yesteday.

You own at a beautiful resort in VWL. Rejoice and enjoy the future WDW vacation years at the most desirable spot in the world.

[Caskbill]

When we first purchased DVC, they didn't have EE or E-nights at all, so those 'perks' were never a factor in our decision to purchase. In 8-years we've only done E-nights once, and never do EE (We like to sleep later), so it doesn't bother me at all if they eliminate them. On the other hand, for those that used them, I can understand somewhat your feelings.

I don't believe that Disney is cutting back because of security. It's because of money. Like it or not, business is down. We just got back form 2-months there and the crowds were low (weekdays), but still up for the weekends. I think many plans were changed after the Sept 11 tragedy, and mostly it was the Florida locals going to the parks. You could actually detect on the weekdays the crowds picking up after 4:00 pm when locals started showing up. If you think about it, all these people are probably using annual passes and so are generating little revenue to the parks. It's tough to justify keeping employees on overtime when ticket sales are down. The fact that Disney has even offered Florida a special 465 day annual pass special might indicate their need to increase revenue.

With 50,000 employees at WDW, I'm sure it's all about money. Those people who purchase single day or park hopper tickets are certainly losing with shorter park hours. In my opinion, when the crowds pick up, there's a good chance Disney will bring these 'perks' back. In fact, our last day at the parks (MGM, Oct 17th), was getting back to full crowds. I had heard that day that they were getting up to 14,000 - 15,000 guests a day (at MGM), which is getting back to their 'normal' counts for that time of year.

Yes, I agree, it's about saving money. But it's also probably a sound financial decision. And I'd rather have fewer perks now with a strong WDW in years to come, than have the extra hours now, only to get a run-down, poorly maintained park in the years to come.

All IMHO.

[chris1gill]

Umm... I think this is rather short sighted... Did you hear that they were also closing down an entire resort and that they've delayed the opening of a 5000 room resort? They are doing this quite frankly, because if they don't they'll lose a *lot* of money... I don't particularly think they enjoy this... Wasn't Pop Century like a 500 million dollar resort, or some other ridiculous amount of money? They are cutting every available area right now because they have to, not because they want to... The only place you won't see cutbacks are at the DVC resorts, because we pay for them...

[Eeyore2U]

Jay,

I vehemently want to state that we do NOT regret buying in to DVC. We have never used an EE or an E night and have always gone in off season with shorter hours.

My question to you is when was your last trip? We were there the first week of October. There were no crowds. We were glad we had a rental car since we had too much time on our hands. I just read a post on the parks board staing that person had all walk ons to the E rides. I do understand that weekends are more crowded with local.

Take a trip home and decide for yourself. I can't wait to go in February and I will not let whiners and doomsayers destroy my good time.

[wdeversole]

Originally posted by Eeyore2U
Jay,

I vehemently want to state that we do regret buying in to DVC.

Is this a typo ?

[Chuck S]

We never used e-nights and only went to EE morning once, so for us it really has no impact. I realize these were popular programs, and I'll bet they return when tourism improves. What can you do to help insure these programs will return, go to WDW and encourage as many people as you can to go to WDW.

[wdwoldtimer]

Eeyore, I think you meant to say you vehemently do NOT regret buying in to the DVC! LOL

We've been in the DVC since they started and have only used EE once and E-Tick Nite once. We've never been happier being in the DVC. I'd venture to say that with a little flexibility, patience and a willingness to plan-as-you-go, one could see everything they want to in the World, without EE and ETN....even during busy season.

Now if you want to talk about valuable perks that they should bring back.....how about the free park admission? THAT was a perk we hated to lose.

[maryisme]

We are fairly new members (2000) and have only used DVC once since we've purchased. We did take advantage of EE and thoroughly enjoyed having the park to ourselves. Yet, I do not regret purchasing at all. I understand that Disney has to do what it must to continuing making a profit. I also believe that in the future we will be seeing these perks reinstated. Yes, I will miss EE but it won't take the magic of being in WDW away.

[caverill]

We have used both EE and E-Ticket nights.

While I will miss these "perks", I am still very pleased with our purchase into DVC. I view DVC as pre-paid lodging. The perks, which can be given and taken away at any time, weren't the main reason we purchased DVC. We purchased to ensure we had 41 years of wonderful Florida vacations.

I believe Disney made these changes to help control expenses, which I would expect any normal business to do. I believe that these perks will return when the crowds return. These perks are one of the "selling" points for people staying on-site. Right now Disney doesn't need them, since travel is way down.

[timC]

We just added on at VWL, we're that confident in Disney and DVC... In fact I just got off the phone with DVC, after doubling my original add-on.

Regarding EE, we usually tried to avoid the EE parks. They seemed to draw larger crowds, overall, and we're not morning people. I wonder what this is now going to due to the weekly crowd patterns in the parks. Time for a new game plan?

[Eeyore2U]

If the mind could only figure out what my fingers do!!!

Thanks all!!! Typo fixed.

[LisaR]

If the worse thing going on in anyones life right now is the cancellation of E night and long lines at Disney, then you have an awful lot to be thankful for.

Lisa

[Pluto4President]

Disney is still Disney to me. DVC is still one of my better choices in life. Regrets? Not here!

19 Days 19 Hrs 49 Mins 1 Secs

[JonHM]

Caskbill : *Excellent* post! Well said.

Several things: First, we don't *know* that these cutbacks are permanent, and I would bet money that they are not. But we all, as DVC members, have to look at the BIG PICTURE here. The 'right now' is not nearly as important as the NEXT 40 YEARS... Disney World has to do what they have to do to get through this recession, that does not bother me in the slightest. I love e-ride night, although when we went there were an AWFUL LOT of obnoxious teens there, which took away from our enjoyment a little bit. As for EE, as someone else said, we make sure to avoid that park that day, as it remains packed for the entire day.

wdwfreak: What *really* bothers me is not these temporary cutbacks, but DVC members who have cancelled planned trips not out of fear or apprehension, which I would understand, but out of being p.o.'ed about the 'cutbacks' - if enough people did this, it would cause an extremely vicious cycle. Disney World is cutting back perks because of financial difficulties. If we all start cancelling and postponing our trips, it *adds* to the financial difficulties, which *may*, in fact, lead either to additional perks being discontinued, or to the taken away perks staying gone for longer than they would have.

Disney does not WANT to be making these cutbacks - they are not lining their pockets, as some seem to imply, they are trying to get through this crisis and *Survive* - Big companies can go under in times like this. Midway has already closed up shop, and many of the major airlines, mainstays in our society for decades, would have been in *serious* trouble without a bailout from the government.

We CARE about Disney World being around, and existing at the same level of quality as it always has, for *at least* another 40 years, that's why we bought into DVC. Looking at the big picture, what is going on this month is really irrelevant, compared to next year, five years from now, ten years from now.

Our family is going to continue to support Disney World and take *all* of our planned vacations (Yes Yes, we must all sacrifice for the greater good, no matter how unpleasant... ;) ), and maybe some additional ones, if we can work it out with our work schedules.

I appreciate the thread and it's a good thing to bring up for discussion, but I feel very strongly about this. Hope I didn't rant to much for you... :D

Take Care :bounce:

[Figaro30]

Well it looks like i'm the only one that has to agree with you. We bought in last November and honestly if it was this November we probably wouldn't have. I'm am feeling a little regret for purchasing at this point. Although, I have no idea what the real deal is down there because we haven't been since February 2000. Our first trip in DVC is in 3 weeks.

Right now, I'm a little pessimistic about the fact that we bought in. Maybe my mind will change after we have our first visit. So I'm not going to totally rule out the fact that we made a great decision. I'll let you know in 4 1/2 weeks after we return.

Hopefully my decision was a positive one. :D

[Cassjoejack]

When we bought, we got FREE passes to the parks for the length of our stay.

Now, THAT'S the only thing I regret not having anymore!!!! :)

[Aurora2000]

I have to say I am not really upset about losing EE or E nights. Though I would have liked to still have the option for EE. I havent used EE with my children yet as they are young and truthfully I like a more relaxed vacation these days ( am I getting old?)

I am an optimist though EE will be back!

R

[jctwizzer]

Since we haven't been to WDW since most of the changes were implemented, we have no basis for saying whether the changes are unreasonable. I'm certainly not going to get upset over what some others are reporting.......I'm inclined to think most of the changes so far will have no impact on our enjoyment of WDW. We may have to change a few things, but selling DVC is not an option at this point.....if you really want to hurt them, we'll buy your points for $50 each!! Seriously, wait till you actually see how much you are affected before going off the deep end. Life's too short to get disturbed by what others say.:smooth:

[gary in florida]

We've been to DW since the changes. This past weekend in fact. Went Sunday & Monday nite. Went to the MNSSHP on Sunday, it had a decent crowd. The bus was full on the way back to the resort, it was about 11 PM. On Monday, we went to Epcot. The main change there was the closing of Future World early. No big deal. When we left EPCOT, at about 8 PM, the bus was packed, standing room only, and people left at the bus stop waiting for the next bus. Now for the optimistic part. We purchase a DVC on Monday, our first DVC. :bounce:
We are not planning to be around for the full 40 years, we are senior citizens. But, we go 3-4 times a year and feel that it's still a good deal. In the many years we've gone, since 1973, we have never done an early opening, nor an EE.
We completely understand about the cutbacks. It's better than closing the park completely.

[niks81]

Being a new DVC member I can't speak for those who have been around for ten years. I think the opinions differ based on the reasons that you had for joining. For example, if you joined ultimately because you knew you would be getting those free passes for 40 years then granted, you should be disappointed. However, something tells me that's not majority. I joined because I think the best part of Disney is the resorts. But that's me. I think everyone is entitled to be disappointed if they joined because of the perks that are being taken away. But I also think that everyone should realize one thing: DVC is a great deal-you save so much money regardless if you had free passes or early entry, etc. But I agree that we as members do have the right to object if Disney takes away more than they should.

Truthfully, I just love being in DVC....great money saver and great memories too.

[raidermatt]

We're happy. We don't use EE, and actually try to avoid those parks on EE days because they end up being more crowded...

We were thinking of giving E Nights a shot next time, but no biggie. We'll just save the money (or spend it in another Disney establishment...;)

As for the reasons they gave, remember, they need to put as positive a spin on things as they can. They don't want to make investors and potential guests think they are desparate. Saying its for security reasons makes it sound like a proactive move to make the parks safer, instead of a reactive move to troubling economic times.

The security piece may only be 5% of the reason, but we can't blame then for spinning it that way. I haven't seen a company yet that doesn't "spin" its negative announcements, like firing a CEO, or announcing layoffs.

[trishy]

Very true, Raidermatt. Also take into consideration the government sponsored multi-billion dollar bail-out for businesses who have lost income due to the terrorists attacks. By Disney stating their losses are due to security measures resulting from the terrorist attacks, they are eligible for part of that money. (making investors happy :smooth: )

[dianeschlicht]

WDW is still there and still open. We are happy!!

[Pluto4President]

Originally posted by dianeschlicht
WDW is still there and still open. We are happy!!


ditto!

[Eeyore2U]

Originally posted by dianeschlicht
WDW is still there and still open. We are happy!!

This works for me as well!!! :D

[Snowgod]

EE and Eride nights were great perks but we never used them. As long as WDW is still there, we will sleep late and enjoy ourselves.:smooth:

[Goofy Fan]

You have to put yourself into their shoes before asking these questions. If you are a Disney stock holder right now, what are you asking Disney to do? Are you comfortable watching the stock price continue to plummet to keep your ability to enter a park 1 1/2 hours ahead of schedule or stay late? Granted, these aren't the only factors in a recovery process, but are important, especially when attendance has dropped off dramatically. Revenue - Expenses = Profit. No business, not even WDW, will lose money in order to maintain perks. And I'll bet that these decisions are not ones that they enjoy doing. We cannot forget about the events on 9/11 either. They have had a tremendous impact. I would be more concerned with getting people to keep or make their reservations at WDW as oppossed to cancelling or not making them. I also would be mad at terrorism, not WDW. Changing your opinion on whether you've made the right decision to buy into or stay in DVC based on the ability to enter a park early or stay later is not a sound decision IMHO.

[wdwoldtimer]

niks81....I don't think any of us who mentioned losing the free passes perk were really complaining legitimately. It was very clear when we joined that this perk would expire at the end of 1999. Still....can't help but whine a little!! That was the perk to end all perks :(

But, even if it wasn't offered, we would have joined for all the reasons you mentioned.

[sgtdisney]

Originally posted by Goofy Fan
You have to put yourself into their shoes before asking these questions. If you are a Disney stock holder right now, what are you asking Disney to do?

I am a Disney Stock holder and have been for close to 20 years. Disney's problems with the theme parks started before the events on 9/11. The current management at Disney has been pulling funds and profits from the theme park operations for years to finance risky ventures such as the purchase of Go.com, ABC and more recently Fox Family which cost 5 times the original cost of Epcot. These are the things that worry me.

Do hours need to be cut? Maybe. Although from the sounds of it the crowd levels would support longer hours on the weekends. Should EE have been cut back? Maybe. But they have loads and loads of promotional material touting Early Entry as a top perk of staying on Disney Property. Of course they had the right to cut it out. However what is the public's perception of this? Disney's long term viability has a lot to do with it's image as being a premier entertainment company. Let's hope that most people feel as you do and the cuts are not important to them.

[Patricia]

Nope, not upset. Just happy that WDW is sucking it up and working hard to keep open. My husband works on WallSt. There are thousands upon thousands of layoffs currently going on. Cutbacks are all around us.

[niks81]

wdwoldtimer.....I am new and was not aware that the members knew about the free passes expiring in 1999. No one had informed me of that and I took it as another perk being taken.

Personally, as long as my resort is still standing, and in proper working order, I am pleased as punch.

[mnlovesdisney]

We were just at WDW last week and I was pretty disappointed about several things. I definitely missed EE days but even worse than this was rides that were broken. In seven previous trips to WDW I have never had problems with rides that were broken down, on this trip it happened three times (maybe cutting back to the point they can't properly maintain their rides). Also they have reduced hours to the point that even in October the parks were packed (we were in the parks on a Sunday, Monday, and Wednesday). We waited an hour to get on Test Tracks and an hour to get on Rock and Roll Rollercoaster. Other rides we went on were anywhere from 10 to 30 minute waits. After being there last week they will NEVER convince me these cut backs are because of poor attendance at the parks. I personallly do not regret purchasing DVC, however I think it will be quite awhile before I again bother to go in to the parks. We will either exchange points for other destinations, go to HH, do a cruise, or go to OKW to stay but not do WDW. Until they get their act back together at the parks I can find better ways to spend my hard earned money.

OKW was still GREAT as always. Staff was very polite and helpful. We had a grand villa this trip and really enjoyed our OKW stay, just should have probably avoided the parks.

[Eeyore2U]

I wish we could get a good read on the crowds. I have read many posts stating that rides were walkons or minimal waits for the same time period. When we were there it was not crowded until the weekend. Based on the info on the resorts board, hotel occupancy is very low which lead to the closing of POFQ. Something like than a hundred reservations between there an POR the last week, before they decision to close was made.

Was FL on a school break last week? I thought I heard that somewhere.

[chris1gill]

Basically, the weekdays are all walk on & the weekends are still packed..... That's been my traditional experiences as well as what I'm reading from returning guests... This is not unusual...

As for Test Track being broken LOL... I have yet to see a time when it was ever open from the time it officially opened!! The thing is ALWAYS BROKEN... and R&R breaks occasionally too... neither of those is an unusual occurance....

[TrudyZ]

I must add to the minority and say that I am also concerned about the loss of EE and E nights.

We are new members, and have taken two trips this year--7 days in April/May and 11 in October. We used the EE privilege for MK every day it was available, and used E nights on our April/May trip. (on our last trip we left the afternoon of October 20th--never even heard a whisper about EE being discontinued).

Let me say that I have no intention of selling. With a 3 year old we have many trips to WDW in our future and will certainly get our use out of DVC. And, I certainly understand about business decisions.

But, beyond my own selfishness of mourning the loss of these perks and the cuts in hours (I hope none of you take that too seriously), I am concerned of the overall affect of staying on site--which directly correlates to DVC.

It has always been the "perks" and "intangibles" of staying on site that has commanded the extra $$$ from guest for that privilege. But with the loss of EE, E nights, etc., what is left? On site transportation and that Disney "magic"? For many who are looking at economics much more closely these days, those diminishing perks may not be enough to snag their lodging dollars. (and imagine being a first time guest and being asked to pay $$$ more for "magic"???!!) It will be interesting to see what Disney has up it's sleeve to keep the folks paying the extra $$$ to stay on site.

My point is, if the draw to stay on-site at WDW is diminished, the draw to purchase DVC may be too. (I wonder if the sales reps at Westgate and Vistiana did the "happy dance" when WDW accounced these cuts? )

I also believe that we as DVC members should keep a watchful eye on the state of the parks. Whether we like it or not, we are tied to the health of them. There may be those of us who can make a DVC visit and never go to the parks; but I have believe those folks are few and far between.

And, well, of course there is that economy that surely can't be helping the DVC cause either. We purchased in April. If we were faced with that decision now; the state of the ecomomy combined with the cuts and uncertainty at WDW would be enough to have us hold off and see what happens before investing in DVC.

Well, time to get off my soapbox now. And, if I seem a little "doom and gloom", I spent too many years as an engineering consultant where it was my job to devise and engineer loss expectancies and maximum forseable loss scenarios--basically, figure out what was the worse thing that could happen and then engineer something so it wouldn't. Soemtimes, just can't get out of that frame of mind..... TIme to go think Happy Thoughts!:D

Trudy

[baileybrad]

The attractions are not walk-ons during the week. Anyone with little ones visiting Fanstasyland can attest to that. We were there 10/20 - 10/29 and my response is based on firsthand experiences.

I would prefer 1 park go dark completely 1 day a week as to the stuff that is going on down there now.

The worst part about it is the spinning that Disney does to try to justify any decision that they make.

I know that my opinion is a minority one but that's life. I will just have to live with being on the dark side when it comes to the Disney corporation.

Stockholder, DVC member, AP holder, blessed with a great attitude and a personality to match, a non-whiner, one who always ensures that my little ones have a great time at Disney no matter what policies are implemented, one who just flat-out refuses to support the notion that just having the gates at Disney open is more than enough.

[wdwfreak]

Originally posted by LisaR
If the worse thing going on in anyones life right now is the cancellation of E night and long lines at Disney, then you have an awful lot to be thankful for.

Lisa


No one ever said that this was the worst thing going on in their life, it is just a disappointment. Please don't mis-construe what I said.

[wdwfreak]

Originally posted by baileybrad
The attractions are not walk-ons during the week. Anyone with little ones visiting Fanstasyland can attest to that. We were there 10/20 - 10/29 and my response is based on firsthand experiences.

I would prefer 1 park go dark completely 1 day a week as to the stuff that is going on down there now.

The worst part about it is the spinning that Disney does to try to justify any decision that they make.

I know that my opinion is a minority one but that's life. I will just have to live with being on the dark side when it comes to the Disney corporation.

Stockholder, DVC member, AP holder, blessed with a great attitude and a personality to match, a non-whiner, one who always ensures that my little ones have a great time at Disney no matter what policies are implemented, one who just flat-out refuses to support the notion that just having the gates at Disney open is more than enough.

Absolutely. Disney hase used these perks to get people through their gates for years. Many people, whether you want to admit it or not, base their decision on these existing perks. And, yes, Disney has the right to pull them at any time. However, my original point, which has been completely re-designed in the course of all the replies, is that Disney has justified their decision to stop the perks on the basis of security and I don't understand that. If anyone can tell me how security factors into all of this, please tell me.

Just being open is not a great selling point for me, nor should it be for anyone else. Disney is capable of far more than that, and we all know this.

If you are a stockholder, than you know that the theme parks account for approximately 30% of the Disney Company's revenue, and pulling oerks, shortening park hours, and potentially diminishing the enjoyment of it's guests, first-timers or not, is a bad business decision. I still stand firmly on this point.

[TrudyZ]

Fantasyland and Toontown were not walk ons 10/10-10/20 either. (and we were at MK 5 mornings and a couple of evenings during that timeframe).

In fact, because they delayed the opening of Toontown until 10:00 (even though on the Surprise Morning handouts given at the gate said 9:00 a.m.--how's that for consistancy???); it was even busier than it was on our April/May trip. In April/May, Toontown opened at 9:00 a.m., and since many people hadn't made there way back to that part of the park yet, it was fairly peaceful for 45 minutes or so. But on this trip, we found that because it opened at 10:00; there was a very long line just to enter Toontown; and it was busy from the start.

Trudy

[Eeyore2U]

Originally posted by wdwfreak

If you are a stockholder, than you know that the theme parks account for approximately 30% of the Disney Company's revenue, and pulling oerks, shortening park hours, and potentially diminishing the enjoyment of it's guests, first-timers or not, is a bad business decision. I still stand firmly on this point.

So if it's 30% of revenue, then it can also be a loss leader. Could it be that this division of a large conglomerate faces staggering losses to it's bottom line? Could it be that other divisions are not facing the same? Isn't it prudent if those with shortfall take care of their own house? I'm sure in Disney Theme Parks Business Continuity Plan they did not anticipate the ramifications of 9/11. Do they spin the reasons. Yes, but what corporation doesn't. Comments on these boards reflect that the hours although cut back for November aren't as bad as anticipated. My feeling is Disney will do what's right. They just need to formulate a business plan. That takes time. Right now they are making short term decisions to short term obstacles.

My last question is, is it better to run a business shorter hours at higher capacity or longer hours with minimal capacity? When you answer, thinkif the money were coming out of your pocket.

Sorry, one more question. Do we let our expectations cloud reality?

[prplcrzy]

I can't beleive all of the whining that is going on. I just came back (8:30 last night) from a week at the Boardwalk. Fro those of you whining about the the loss of e nights and EE days pay attention---

There are virtually no lines or waiting for anything.

If you are complaining about having to wait 10 minutes for a ride, have you ever been to Disney before???

I got a fast pass for the safari ride at AK and went to a show and came back to find that the fast pass line was as long as the regular line to get on the ride, 30 seconds. I didn't have to wait for anything. The rides said anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes but it was more like 10 to 30 seconds.

There is not enough people there to justify keeping the parks open for EE or e ride nights. These were not perks, although they were spun by the marketing geniuses as such, these were ways to deal with the large amounts of people in the parks. These people are no longer there. Why else would they close a 1500 room resort and entire floors of hotels that they cannot occupy. Why else would they delay a 5700 room resort from opening? Why else would they delay another DVC resort from being built? They are trying to stop the bleeding folks. Pure, plain and simple.

They are also trying to keep as many jobs for the employees by moving them around and having them do other things. They know it will get busy again, they just don't know when.

After spending this week (lowest attendance I've ever seen there in all of my visits) I think they are doing the right thing even though some people do not like it.

Let's face a few facts, people are not travelling. My return flight was cancelled from Orlando and I was just stuck on another plane by Delta with no prior notification. They just didn't care and told me that was the best they could do under the circumstances and they reserve the right to change the schedule at their discretion. There are circumstances. Everyone needs to realize this and until people travel the way they used to, the circumstances will continue and may even get worse before it gets better. They ar edoing what they can and blaming Disney for the Sept. 11th thing is just plain wrong. They are dealing with it like everyone else. Help them out, go on vacation.

[chris1gill]

OH THANK GOD!!! A voice of reason in all of this!!

Welcome back Prplcrzy!!! Glad you enjoyed your visit & glad there were few if any waits... How was your DVC experience? Next question, how long did you have to wait for your return flight?

[prplcrzy]

My wife HATES to fly, and will not do stops, which is the flight we were given by Delta. After spending two hours on the phone making anyone that was on the other end miserable because of the cancellation and non notification of the cancellation which happed five days prior to my call (I always call the day before to confirm everything) the only non stop I could get was at 7:00 AM. So we had to switch our flight to Tampa and drive an hour to get a non stop flight that I didn't have to get up at 3:30 AM to catch.

chris1gill - we had a great time!!! We couldn't do everything we wanted (maintenance, reductions, etc) But we adapted and there are so many things to do, we just found something else. There is not much that is reduced and the CM's are still positive and upbeat, probably because they know that Disney is trying to save their jobs instead of just being a large corporation that will take it out on them because things are not going their way. All in all they get an A+ for their attempts to keep things as normal as possible while attempting to stop the bleeding.

This time I had father/daughter time with my daughter at Cirque du Soliel and horseback riding. We are looking for different thigs to do during each visit and found two new things that really were fun and that we would do again.

Cirque du Soliel, while pricy, was visually spectacular and worth every penny. Horse back riding made you forget that you had to be somewhere, relaxing and fun for us first-timers. For you experienced equestrians, probably a little boring, for others a cool thing to do with your kids or to just get away for a little while.

Go on vacation, help them out, there is no lines and no waiting, at least everywhere we went last week.

My DVC experience was good with the CM's, facilities needed a little more attention, we had issues in our room that needed resolution, and hopefully were fixed prior to the next member who stayed there. We got the Boardwalk view that we like ( this makes two out of three times, this last time probably because the resort wasn't as busy or we were just lucky) Romm 3011 to be exact. A little close to the end of the Boardwalk, but since Atlantic Dance was closed and Jellyrolls was not that busy this week we were not disturbed by the noise like we were in the past.

Great vacation and look forward to 40 + more years of great vacations!!!

[chris1gill]

Wow prplcrzy, what an airline story!! Coincidentally, we flew in & out of Boston on Delta to Orlando over Labor Day weekend & there was no end to the problems we experienced with Delta... They also cancelled our flight home as well & we called the Boardwalk front desk as soon as we found out & got a room that night at the BW!! Thank god for DVC, otherwise we would not have been happy!!

We're flying down at the end of the month on Southwest out of Hartford, but I'm still expecting issues to arise... We'll have to be flexible & forgiving!!!

Glad you were able to have a nice vacation, we also like to try to find "other" things to do while we're down there other than the parks... There's a lot of stuff the average person never gets to do!!!

[baileybrad]

prplcrzy,
How much time did you and your wife spend in Fantasyland....there were lines at everything there except for small world which rarely has lines anymore. The lines were much more than 10 minutes in this land. This is the area in the MK that has always benefited the most from EE. It is about little children getting to do an attraction without waiting 30 to 40 minutes in line during a time when no "one is traveling".... I suppose that someone should please let those doing the waiting in these lines that really nobody is traveling and there really isn't a line.

JC had lines at different times of 30 to 50 minutes. Splash Mtn was down one day and as we all know that resulted in huge waits later in the day. Buzz had waits of 20 to 30 minutes on 4 different days and they were not utilizing FP. Some rides did not have more than 10 minute waits at various times. That is always the case in the fall. First thing on Sunday was really good as it always has been in Fantaslyland. The small coaster had waits in the afternoon on 2 different days of 45 minutes. The raceway had waits of over an hour on most days that we were in the MK.

You can call this whining all you want. I will continue to report the acutal goings-on during OUR visit just like you did yours.

We had great success, also, in the AK. That park does not offer EE and is always good to visit during the slower seasons and that was no different. I think that Disney should rethink the decision to cancel EE for the MK because of "security reasons". And my firsthand experience with our 10/20 - 10/29 visit is the reason why.

Glad you did not have to wait in any lines. Waiting in lines is usually part of the Disney experience. Again you must have not spent much time in the MK Fantasyland area. For those that did, I would expect that there was some serious line waiting. Again I am nothing but a whiner so what do I know?

I find it interesting that our air experience was absolutley wonderful. No problems. Delta was right on top of everything. My spouse and our 2 little ones had great flights with the flight attendents fawning over our 2 little boys. Does that mean that everybody who flies is having few problems and that the ones who do are "whiners"? Of course, not. And it would be wrong for me to say so.

And finally I don't recall anyone on these boards blaming the Disney corporation for the September 11th tragedy, that is a real easy way for one to lose any creditablility in a civil discussion and I would suggest that you might want to rethink that position.

[JonHM]

Now, I have no affilation or connections with Disney, so I have no idea if what I am speculating is true. But I will posit a guess in response to your earlier comment:

However, my original point, which has been completely re-designed in the course of all the replies, is that Disney has justified their decision to stop the perks on the basis of security and I don't understand that. If anyone can tell me how security factors into all of this, please tell me.
OK, you say that the cutbacks have nothing to do with security. Let's look at the situation. After September 11th, Disney starts bleeding cash from the lack of people travelling, and, at the same time they are hurting from the aftereffects, they have to *SPEND* money on new security measures. So they have to take a rapidly shrinking revenue pool, and milk it for enough money to make the parks safe for everyone. Let's say the total cost for all of the security changes (which probably include a LOT more than any guests are aware of when they're inside the parks - monitoring equipment, undercover security that you would not notice, additional employees, additional equipment, who knows?), let's say that the total cost for that is X dollars. Where are they going to get those X dollars to pay for them, when the revenue base they had made all of their plans and budgets from is suddenly much smaller than expected?

Well, they may have had a worst case scenario in place to deal with rapidly shrinking revenue at the parks due to general lack of interest or increasing competition, but they probably did not envision a scenario in which they would not *only* have to have enough money to remain open and fully operational, which they had probably planned for, but *also* have to spend God knows how much on increased security measures.

So isn't it at least *possible* that the actual reason they needed to make the temporary cutbacks were to save enough money to pay for the security measures?

Again, I have no idea if this is actually true or not, but it makes sense to me. Even though the cause would be indirect, it *may* still be what is responsible for the cutbacks.

[TrudyZ]

Sorry, I couldn't let Baileybrad whine alone on this:

Whining???!

How come if some of us use the "Disney" D word it is whining; but
using the "Delta" D word isn't???

It appears that both Disney and Delta have adjusted their schedules and changed the game plan at the last minute without notification. The cutbacks and changes at Delta, are also "to stop the bleeding, pure and simple".

Some of us have chosen to express our concerns with the cutbacks and methods of implementation on this board; or perhaps with written correspondence to WDW. If that is whining; than so be it.

However, I don't think anyone in this thread expressing their opinions has used this tactic:

"After spending two hours on the phone making anyone that was on the other end miserable because of the cancellation and non notification of the cancellation which happened five days prior to my call..."

What if someone would have posted that they did the same thing to the CMs at WDW? From the tone of this thread, they probably would have been crucified (and probably rightly so)!

Two hours making anyone who was on the other end miserable??? Geez, I hope that gave you a real ego boost. (Sorry, that was probably uncalled for, but I was having a moment of compassion for those poor minimum wage workers barely holding on to jobs who had to listen to that rant.)

Nope, I sure wouldn't use the word "whining" to label that...

Don't you think that the multitude of changes that have been made at WDW without notification have inconvenienced and irritated some of us too? Perhaps the loss of E nights and EE are as near and dear to us as the loss of your return non-stop flight. Just like you planned on a non-stop flight; some of us planned on EE mornings, E nights, certain posted hours, etc.

Please try and use the same understanding we all seem to muster for WDW for Delta. And, let's just get back to all of us being able to state our opinions about certain issues without being labeled.

Trudy

[prplcrzy]

Trudy,

I paid almost $800 for plane tickets that I had planned my vacation around and timed my vacation plans to. Also I haave issues with the types of flights that I need to take due to the inability of my wife's willingness to do a stop during a flight. Since my flight was cancelled and there was absolutely no attempt to contact me to reschedule or at the very least notify me of a change in my plans, I think I have the right to be a little upset about it and let someone know that they cost me time and money to rectify the situation due to their lack of consideration for their passengers situations. My making someone miserable on the other end of the phone was not an ego boost at all, simply extreme frustration at the complete lack of consideration for peoples travel plans and a too bad take it or leave it attitude from the airline that I have patronized for years. Hotel accomodations, car rentals and monetary considerations areaffected when schedules change, and the lack of notification and the changing of the type of flight I purchased for specific reasons prompt frustration more than the actual changing of the time of the flight itself. When someone says to me that they can't do any thing for me and that they will give me a refund one day prior to leaving on my vacation with absolutely no chance of finding flights that timed into our schedules, I think that would kinda qualify as the right to vent at someone who basically could have cared less that I flew or not. They wonder why people don't want to fly.

Bailybrad,

I spent no time waiting for anything including splash mountain, all week. I do not see where people were waiting for anything. Every park I visited was pretty empty, all week. I was in shows at MGM that didn't even fill the seats for millionaire, Drew Carey, the Muppets or Indiana Jones.

As you stated waiting in line is part of the Disney experiance sometimes and if it happens, it happens. I just see people complaining that they have to wait in line. That goes with the territory. I'm sorry for those that had to wait, but from the reports that people hve posted even the wait times are shorter tht at other times of the year when it is very crowded. If people had to wait more that 30 minutes for a ride consistantly for every ride in the park every day then I think that something would have been done to adjust the park times and accomodate the crowds. I didn't see the necessity for that on our visit and Disney probably doesn't see it in the cash box at the end of the day either I bet.

As for blaming Disney for Sept 11th, I am refering to the tone at which people are expressing how upset they are at Disney, (hence the title of the post) not that they actually blame Disney for the event that changed the world. Disney clearly had signs posted, had information available for anyone that needed it, and probably would have notified us as soon as humanly possible, if any of the planned events had changed like reservations for specific events.

Delta clearly was at the opposite end of the spectrum, not caring if you knew about your flights and not caring if you even flew. They had the full use of my money for 11 months and knew full well that finding other forms of transportation at the 11th hour was next to impossible and their attitude is what prompted my vehement anger and expression of such anger at those to whom I spoke.

Companies spin things and Disney is no different. Using security as an excuse may have a certain amount of truth to it, but clearly this is not their primary motivation to make the adjustments they have. Disney has always adjusted park hours to compensate for either excessive traffic or light traffic and these adjustments will produce some lines at some points, none that our party of 10 noticed anywhere at any time whether we were together or split between parks on any given day. Maybe we were lucky everywhere we went, but I just didn't see enough people to justify keeping the parks open extra, and did see reason to adjust park times downward and hotel accomodations for some people. To close off 1500 + rooms and delay almost 6000 rooms from coming on line in the near future, thats a lot of people that just are not going on vacation any more. The weekends will be busy with locals, but during the week we saw light attendance everywhere.

Extra security cost extra money. They had many more security people roaming the parks as well as checking ID's at resorts and searching bags the the entrances. If you spend money somewhere you have to cut from somewhere else, especially when you do not have the anticipated revenue stream to pay all of the bills.

Everyone, go on vacation, help them out. Be more understanding to the complexities of running a huge corporation that tries to do right by their guests, not take advantage of people. From my experience this week I really feel they are doing their best to accomodate everyone and are not making everyone completely happy. This is bound to happen, the more people you try to make happy, sometimes makes more people unhappy. I noticed that they are trying, and that counts for a lot in my book.

[chris1gill]

In regards to DELTA prplcrzy shouldn't feel too bad making those people miserable!! We flew the same route as prplcrzy on September 5th... In the morning our son was in the hospital & we wanted to change our flight from the 5th to the 6th to allow him a day to recuperate... DELTA wouldn't do it unless we paid the 200.00 change fee... That was at 9am... We warned them we'd go with him sick & all, they didn't care... We showed up at the airport 7 hours later to find our flight was cancelled... No advance notice, no reason why, just cancelled... Course we'd already checked out of our hotel... Since our son was sick we had to pay for an extra day at that hotel even though we were scheduled to leave at 4:00 to get our flight... We could have stayed in the hotel we already paid for if someone had told us!! But NO... they didn't & they didn't care one bit... Not one single bit!! We booked the BW for the night & went back to Disney.... We called DELTA from the BW & they rescheduled us for the next day at noon.... We arrived for our flight & GUESS WHAT! They never booked us for that flight... What a MESS... we eventually did get home, but no thanks to DELTA... I'm certain by far they are the worst airline I've ever flown... This was one week before the incidents of the 11th... so just because 9-11 happened, don't fool yourself, DELTA was going downhill LONG BEFORE that day....

Just had to vent about Delta, so prplcrzy - I'll cut you a lot of slack in regards to DELTA... They are just plain nasty....

[mareka]

I am disappointed in the loss of the perks - We used them all the time, but we will make do. Lines can be avoided by getting up in the morning and going to park for opening.

If sleeping in is what you want to do then don't complain about lines. We were there Presidents week and while lines were longer than we would have liked they were managable.

This Feb will be our 1st trip as DVC members. My family actually wants to take it a little slower this time. I'm the one who will miss the EE mornings the most and I'm 50 yrs old.

There is so much to do there, If lines are long on the main ride, try one of the lesser attractions. I think you'll find some of them have beenn overlooked.
Stop and smell the roses - Find the Hidden Mickeys - Look for the talking water fountains - Take a behind the scenes tour.

Ill miss those perks but they or something else will be back. Even though I'm 50 I plan on using my 40 yrs of DVC.

We bought in at VWL but we're staying at Boradwalk this trip (2BR). Bringing family. Haven't gotten there yet and we are already thinking of buying more points.

TO EVERYONE - Relax and enjoy - It's a vacation!!!! - Your trip will be what you make it. So make it FUN!!!

Enjoy ºOº - Keep the Magic Alive.
:bounce:

[loribell]

I had already posted something along these lines in a similar thread and have been reading this thread daily. Finally I'm giving up and reposting.

Could it be at all possible that there were not enough people attending the EE to justify it being open. Don't you think that they would want that extra revenue of people in the parks buying things if there were enough people there to pay the salaries of the staff that it takes to run the open areas. I mean they are a big company that only cares about there bottom line, definitely not their customers (see sarcasm here please).

This company does care about it's customers and its employees. They are doing what they can to keep both happy. It's funny how quickly people forgot that Disney (the terrilble, heartless company that only cares about money) provided rooms for FREE to people that ended up stranded after the attack because of the airline shutdowns. This was a perfect opportunity for them to cash in, they could have made some extra money on rooms that were originally going to be empty, but they didn't. They took care of their guests and that is something I for one will not forget.

There were other businesses that took advantage of it. Gas prices going up by several dollars, there was a Holiday Inn in NYC that started charging over $200/night for a room. That was a local franchise and Holiday Inn asked them to return the franchise and drop their name. The starbucks at ground zero charged somewhere around $130 for water for the rescue effort. They shouldn't have charged anything for that water.

My husband was on his way to Orlando Sept 11 for a conference and had to land at a little bity airport in Macon, GA. TWA put him up in a room for one night and the Ramada they stayed in paid for the next night and he was on government orders. They didn't have to pay for anything because the government would have covered it. Then when his plane got halted again on Thursday afternoon he was finally able to get a rental car and drove home that night. Got here at 7:00am. This rental car was 1 of 2 that Hertz had available finally. It was a Taurus that normally rents for $19.99 a day. They supposedly dropped the one way and mileage charges for him but charged $150 per day and the government rate was much higher.

This folks is taking advantage of people and is what should be addressed. Not the fact that Disney had to drop EE and E-nights because they don't have enough business to justify them continuing them right now.

I'm not saying anybody doesn't have the right to voice their opinions, just want you to remember the things they did do after the attack and think about whether there is a legitimate reason for what they are doing. Remember they do like the money, if there were any to be made I'm sure they would be doing it. But I don't expect them to take a loss to make a few people happy.

When attendance picks up enough to have the EE reinstated I'm sure they will do it. But I will not be mad at them for not having it or E-Nights when the attendance does not warrant it.

By the way is there anyone here that visited during the attacks that went to DW before they ended EE or E-Nights? If so were there very many people there for the EE/E-Night? If not then why are we complaining?

One other thing to those of you that are so upset. If they had EE/E-Night available to you but there were not enough people in the parks to give you more then a 10-15 minute wait would you still get up early and do the EE or stay late and pay for an E-Night?

Sorry for the length. I've always been told I was very wordy!

[prplcrzy]

Very well said loribell!!!

[prplcrzy]

chris1gill, I totally can have a complete understanding for what you went through. I have never had trouble with Delta before and it is only recently that they have been terrible to deal with. I do beleive that this started before 9/11, and that the airlines took advantage of a situation that was a tragedy for a lot of people. They were having problems long before 9/11, and just used it as an excuse to do what they want and lay people off. They now just have something to blame it on.

I will look for other airlines to give my business to, anyone have any suggestions???

[baileybrad]

Prplcrzy,
You didn't mention Fantasyland lines, nor the specific attractions that I mentioned. And, of course, the obvious was that you and I were there at different times All I can do is speak to my own personal experience about the way Disney denied that there was any plan to suspend EE when they in were planning to do so and how the erratic operation of FP which is advertised in all Disney literature was operating in a spastic fashion.

Loribell,
I didn't follow the exact meaning of some of your post, primarily the part going to EE and having 15 minute lines and how would that affect taking advantage of it. EE is a perk that was in effect and now has been suspended, whether someone uses it or not had always been a choice. I am not sure that Disney ever saw it as a huge money maker shop-wise, not qualified to speak to that, but to me, it was available as a resort guest, that to me was most likely built-in to the costs of the resort stay whether you used it or not. I am glad that it is okay to voice an opinion if one thinks that Disney does something in an unprofessional manner (sarcasm slipping in). I praise Disney ever chance I get to family, friends, and associates. But some of the goings-on this trip didn't warrant much praise.

Mareka,
Hope you have a great trip. We did get up very early to enter AK, MK, and MGM. No need to do so for Epcot. We always get up early. And if you are taking small ones, you will wait in lines, sometimes very long ones, in Fantasyland. Something one rarely does when entering the park during EE during this time of the year. We did have a great trip, always do. We are DVC members also.... isn't it great!

chris1gill,
Sorry to hear about your child's illness and the associated problems with your flights or lack of there of. Obviously, you had a real flight problem. Not wanting to do a layover is a personal preference that folks have to decide on for themselves. We have never had any problems with Delta, they have always bent over backward for us when we were over-booked or needed to change, etc. I just sounded like the folks who say "we never use EE and we just don't understand the fuss". Of course, we have never had the misfortune of having an ill little one and getting a flight cancelled with short notice. I am sure that my opinion would lessen quite a bit if I had dealt with what you had. I would suppose some of the folks that followed up on trips to Disney after being assured that EE was not going away only to find out that it was already in the works felt shortchanged somewhat, also. Not nearly as bad as having a sick child but the left hand, right hand analogy sure fits here.

[loribell]

baileybrad- I reread that and it isn't real clear. What I meant was if on any given week you had been going to the parks for a couple of days already and they were not busy, you weren't waiting for long at all for the rides (say 10-15 minutes) would you go to the effort of getting everyone around in time to get to EE on the next day. Would it be worth it if you weren't going to have to wait long for the rides later in the day anyway.

It is very hard for me to get my family around and to the parks for an early opening. Have actually only been able to accomplish this once.

I know how bad fantasy land is. We always go straight there for the rope drop. We go in July and are always able to do most of the rides in an hour. It is difficult to do anything after that though, just to many people. That's how we do it. Wish we could ride more back there but my older kids probably wouldn't like that to much.

[baileybrad]

Thanks for the clarification, Loribell. We are big on EE because our little ones are 4 and 18 months. We do EE at MK and MGM usually twice during a 7 or 8 day stay. But leave the park at around 11 am on those days for naps.

If I was sure that I could do all the Fantasyland attractions with 10 to 15 minute waits after around 10 am then we might cut back to 1 EE per trip or at least the wife and the 18 month old would. My 4 year old and I would probably still try and hit MK every EE morning if Mom would agree:)

I know there will be a day that we won't be spending as time there as the family ages. Also, everything will change when the kids are in school.

My issue with the EE was how Disney went about implementing it. As I have said before we still have great trips at the World.

[sumessefui]

While the loss of perks is a real disappointment to many, I do not see any correlation between loss of park perks and buying DVC. It was made very clear to me before I purchased, that I should not do so based on perks that could go away. Unless it is in the contract it is not guaranteed to be there. Also I am sure that when things improve most of the cuts will be back.