Does anyone know

[duckfan78]

if DVC is going to or thinking of letting members purchase less than 25pts at a time? I just thought it would be a good idea if we could buy less.

It would be nice to maybe buy 10-15pts for my fiancee for the holidays or birthdays. It would just be nice to not have to have a minimum to purchase.

If anyone knows..fill me in..thanks! :thumbsup2

[NJOYURLIFE]

I cannot speak for DVC at all, but honestly I can see them eliminating the 25 point contracts and making the add on amount higher rather than ever allowing less than 25 points.

[Chuck S]

Considering that people that buy resales, even the 25 point contracts are entitled to DVC discounts and benefits, I agree with NJOYURLIFE, I'd expect the minimum to increase. Can you imagine someone buying a 5 or 10 point contract resale, being full DVC members, and member accounting having to do that paperwork?

[mbhoxsie]

Considering that people that buy resales, even the 25 point contracts are entitled to DVC discounts and benefits, I agree with NJOYURLIFE, I'd expect the minimum to increase. Can you imagine someone buying a 5 or 10 point contract resale, being full DVC members, and member accounting having to do that paperwork?

Exactly... With all of the overhead needed to process the paperwork, process dues, financing, etc, I don't see them going below 25 pts..

[MinnieGirl33]

My thoughts exactly.

Too much overhead for not enough return on small contracts.

[Caskbill]

Considering that people that buy resales, even the 25 point contracts are entitled to DVC discounts and benefits, I agree with NJOYURLIFE, I'd expect the minimum to increase. Can you imagine someone buying a 5 or 10 point contract resale, being full DVC members, and member accounting having to do that paperwork?

The dues on a 5 point contract wouldn't even cover the costs of printing and sending out the Vacation Magic publication 4 times a year.

And if DVC continued to pay closing costs on add-on's, how many years of dues would it take on 5-points to just recoup the closing costs? Using today's closing costs, and annual dues, I calculate it at 13.6 years.

IMO, DVC should make it so that anyone with less than 150 points does not receive the DVC perks, Vacation Magic, etc. People could still purchase smaller contracts, and when they reached 150 points or more, they become eligible.

[jdg345]

The dues on a 5 point contract wouldn't even cover the costs of printing and sending out the Vacation Magic publication 4 times a year.

And if DVC continued to pay closing costs on add-on's, how many years of dues would it take on 5-points to just recoup the closing costs? Using today's closing costs, and annual dues, I calculate it at 13.6 years.

IMO, DVC should make it so that anyone with less than 150 points does not receive the DVC perks, Vacation Magic, etc. People could still purchase smaller contracts, and when they reached 150 points or more, they become eligible.

Exactly, and they wouldn't wait 13.6 years ... so we'd all get to chip in helping them to recoup ... :(

[spiceycat]

hey be happy they lower it to 25 - the first couple of years it was 50 points....

you need 60 points for a studio at BWV, BCV or VWL for 5 nights.

BWV standard view you need 50 points (really 45 - but for thankgiving 49).

Okw you need 40 points for 5 nights.

SSR you need 55 points for 5 nights

so I would go with at least 40 points.

[duckfan78]

The dues on a 5 point contract wouldn't even cover the costs of printing and sending out the Vacation Magic publication 4 times a year.

And if DVC continued to pay closing costs on add-on's, how many years of dues would it take on 5-points to just recoup the closing costs? Using today's closing costs, and annual dues, I calculate it at 13.6 years.

IMO, DVC should make it so that anyone with less than 150 points does not receive the DVC perks, Vacation Magic, etc. People could still purchase smaller contracts, and when they reached 150 points or more, they become eligible.

Why anyone who has only 150 would get less perks is beyond me. not everony can afford more than that. Lets remember, DVC isn't supposed to be some elite club of rich people. its for disney lovers everywhere.

And for over a $100/pt, I am sure if you are already a member, the overhead won't be that costly. i have points and they already send me vacation magic, and other paperwork etc.

[missymouse]

For what it's worth a couple weeks ago I asked MS why the magic number was 150 points. He said basically that they have determined that 150 points was the magic number for buying in through Disney due to costs to maintain the account, ease of booking, etc. This is also the approx. number of points needed for at least yearly trips to WDW which in all honesty is the goal of Disney to assure you will take your yearly vacation there. He also said basically in a very polite and politically correct way that is is one way to assure that only those who can afford the initial investment and maintainence fees become new members. I asked about resales of less than 150 and he said they are the right way to go for some people but that they really like all members get to that 150 point. I told him that we had determined that 100 points was the ideal number for our family and he said that seemed like a correct assessment when I explained our rationale. I think that they had to set the bar somewhere and when they crunched all the numbers it was easier to have say 1000 accounts at a with 150 points rather than 6000 accounts with 25 points or 3000 with 50 points. As I recall he also said 25 was the minimum add on because of administrative costs associated with that and that is was a nice number that most people are comfortable with increments of 25.

As I recall this is the general jist of his explanation, so I don't guarantee 100% accuracy.

[tink_n_pooh]

I think the OP was referring to adding on less than 25 points at a time. I can understand why DVC can't do individual contracts for less than 150 points but I do feel that those of us who are already members (with 150+ point contracts) should be able to add on in smaller increments than 25 points.

We are already members and we would not receive any additional benefits, no additional vacation magics to print or send and no additional members to take advantage of other member perks, we would just have more points to use each year = more time at WDW.

If the closing costs are that significant DVC could simply not include the closing costs in add on's of less than 25 points. The member could be responsible for these costs on smaller contracts.

As far as resales, I don't understand why DVC allows resales of less than 150 points to those persons who are not already members. Not everything can be controlled I am sure but I am honestly surprised that DVC lets these contracts go through since it wouldn't have been allowed if it were an initial contract purchased directly through DVC.

Just my 2 cents. :wave2:

[Chuck S]

I think the OP was referring to adding on less than 25 points at a time. I can understand why DVC can't do individual contracts for less than 150 points but I do feel that those of us who are already members (with 150+ point contracts) should be able to add on in smaller increments than 25 points.

We are already members and we would not receive any additional benefits, no additional vacation magics to print or send and no additional members to take advantage of other member perks, we would just have more points to use each year = more time at WDW.

If the closing costs are that significant DVC could simply not include the closing costs in add on's of less than 25 points. The member could be responsible for these costs on smaller contracts.

As far as resales, I don't understand why DVC allows resales of less than 150 points to those persons who are not already members. Not everything can be controlled I am sure but I am honestly surprised that DVC lets these contracts go through since it wouldn't have been allowed if it were an initial contract purchased directly through DVC.

Just my 2 cents. :wave2:

Because each add-on IS , legally, a seperate contract, and is filed and recorded seperately, with the county clerk, or recorder, or whatever they call it in Orange County.

[LisaS]

I think the OP was referring to adding on less than 25 points at a time. I can understand why DVC can't do individual contracts for less than 150 points but I do feel that those of us who are already members (with 150+ point contracts) should be able to add on in smaller increments than 25 points.

We are already members and we would not receive any additional benefits, no additional vacation magics to print or send and no additional members to take advantage of other member perks, we would just have more points to use each year = more time at WDW.If Disney allowed this, they could end up with DVC members who own fewer than 25 points if owners added on just a few points and then sold their main contracts. With perks like the current annual pass discount, the value of the perks the owner could take advantage of would greatly exceed the owner's annual dues. Imagine owning only 10 points -- you would pay about $45/year in dues and can purchase annual passes at a discount for your whole family! You could rent distressed points for $7.50 each and have them transferred in to your account to get enough points to make a reservation, or just rent out your 10 points every year and stay at a non-DVC resort with an AP rate.

If the closing costs are that significant DVC could simply not include the closing costs in add on's of less than 25 points. The member could be responsible for these costs on smaller contracts.If someone wanted to buy DVC points a little at a time, but had to pay $250 in closing costs each time, it wouldn't be very cost effective for the owner. Purchasing 10 points at BWV @$95/point plus an additional $25/point in closing costs brings the cost to $120 per point. It would end up being an expensive way to buy more points.

As far as resales, I don't understand why DVC allows resales of less than 150 points to those persons who are not already members. Not everything can be controlled I am sure but I am honestly surprised that DVC lets these contracts go through since it wouldn't have been allowed if it were an initial contract purchased directly through DVC.

Just my 2 cents. :wave2:Lately they have been aggressively ROFR'ing small contracts (50 points or less). But if they prevented non-members from buying resale contracts with fewer than 150 points, it would end up hurting current owners who need to sell off an add-on of less than 150 points and could only sell it to another member.

I think Caskbill's idea makes a lot of sense -- let people buy the smaller contracts to get their foot in the door, but have a tiered benefit scheme where someone needs to own 150 points to be full-fledged member and receive all of the membership perks.

[Pootle]

Why anyone who has only 150 would get less perks is beyond me. not everony can afford more than that. Lets remember, DVC isn't supposed to be some elite club of rich people. its for disney lovers everywhere. .......

Using that argument, Disney would let people into the parks who could only afford to pay $5 admission ...... Disney lovers, but can't afford the full price ;) Sorry, but it's a business with most things done with an eye on profit.

[7onbuzz]

I agree with Caskbill & LisaS. If DVC allows smaller & smaller contracts, their costs go up and profit goes down. Then quality goes down. The DW and I have never worried about the above average cost of Disney because of the overall quality. Not only is DVC a sound investment if you take annual (or more frequent) trips to WDW, but it is a way to insure the quality that we've all come to expect from Disney.
Someone made the comment that DVC is not an elite club for rich people. You're absolutely right, but neither is it a welfare program.

[castleri]

IMO, DVC should make it so that anyone with less than 150 points does not receive the DVC perks, Vacation Magic, etc. People could still purchase smaller contracts, and when they reached 150 points or more, they become eligible.


Was very glad to see this post as I had been thinking along the lines of exactly the same thing but thought maybe I was just being a grinch and should not be thinking this way.. Ultimately the cost of administering the small stand alone contracts is passed along to everyone not just those who have those contracts and all the perks that go along with them.

[duckfan78]

Using that argument, Disney would let people into the parks who could only afford to pay $5 admission ...... Disney lovers, but can't afford the full price ;) Sorry, but it's a business with most things done with an eye on profit.

im sorry, but 150pts=close to $15,000. A family of 4 to visit disney with just park tickets is not going to cost you more than $750 for 4-5 days.

[Chuck S]

im sorry, but 150pts=close to $15,000. A family of 4 to visit disney with just park tickets is not going to cost you more than $750 for 4-5 days.

A family of 4 for $750 for 4 nights, including tickets, maybe in a highly discounted room at a value resort. Value resorts are averaging nearly $100 per night with taxes. In fact, I paid a little over $100 with tax at POP last month for one night, room only, as no AP discount was available. Add park hoppers for 4, and you're over that $750 amount. DVC resorts are not VALUE resorts. DVC makes sense if you stay in moderate or deluxe onsite resorts, normally. And the savings must be considered long term, over the course of the contract. For instance, take your buy in price of $101 per point/47 years remaining at SSR, add $4 per point dues and you're looking currently at a yearly cost of $6.15, at that rate, a dream season studio is $73.80 per night during the week and $159.90 on weekends, or $688.80 for a full seven night vacation. Whereas cash price for that same studio can be over $2100. And deluxe accomodations at a regular Disney resort even higher. Even at a Disney value resort, it is over $700.

[mrs.explorer1977]

We've just bought a resale for 50 points at HH and have immediately added on an additional 50 points, through Disney, at SSR. We'll probably continue to add on through Disney as our family grows and our needs change.

Why we shouldn't be entitled to all the same perks as someone who bought a 150 point contract directly from Disney at the beginning is beyond me. We're still DVC members, and just because we couldn't do the initial outlay for 150 points doesn't mean we're less "worthy" of the perks.

I think that way of thinking is somewhat "elitist". Yes, we didn't do it the traditional way, but we ARE still members. And as such, I think we shouldn't be subjected to a "tiered benefit program".

[duckfan78]

We've just bought a resale for 50 points at HH and have immediately added on an additional 50 points, through Disney, at SSR. We'll probably continue to add on through Disney as our family grows and our needs change.

Why we shouldn't be entitled to all the same perks as someone who bought a 150 point contract directly from Disney at the beginning is beyond me. We're still DVC members, and just because we couldn't do the initial outlay for 150 points doesn't mean we're less "worthy" of the perks.

I think that way of thinking is somewhat "elitist". Yes, we didn't do it the traditional way, but we ARE still members. And as such, I think we shouldn't be subjected to a "tiered benefit program".

you are totally correct! i agree with you. i did it the traditional way of 160pts originally. but if you own a part of DVC you are still a member. It should not be some elitist group.

[duckfan78]

A family of 4 for $750 for 4 nights, including tickets, maybe in a highly discounted room at a value resort. Value resorts are averaging nearly $100 per night with taxes. In fact, I paid a little over $100 with tax at POP last month for one night, room only, as no AP discount was available. Add park hoppers for 4, and you're over that $750 amount. DVC resorts are not VALUE resorts. DVC makes sense if you stay in moderate or deluxe onsite resorts, normally. And the savings must be considered long term, over the course of the contract. For instance, take your buy in price of $101 per point/47 years remaining at SSR, add $4 per point dues and you're looking currently at a yearly cost of $6.15, at that rate, a dream season studio is $73.80 per night during the week and $159.90 on weekends, or $688.80 for a full seven night vacation. Whereas cash price for that same studio can be over $2100. And deluxe accomodations at a regular Disney resort even higher. Even at a Disney value resort, it is over $700.

i am talking about just park tickets. you mentioned that if people can't afford to get in, they dont charge $5/person if you dont have enough money to affor it. So i am saying what it takes to just get into disney world, it doesnt mean you have to stay at a resort there.

[Stitch 03]

All the talk on costs related to small contracts got me thinking of my situation, which may not be unique, and a way for DVC to save some money. Currently, I own three contracts. I bought two contracts (42 & 40 points at OKW) at the same time a few years ago through resale. These contracts have the same use year.

About a year ago I bought another contract through resale (60 points at OKW). This contract has a different use year then the other contracts. As a result I have two membership numbers and get dual perks (i.e. vacation magic, vacation planner etc.).

Disney should setup a system whereby you can swap contracts for a minimal admin fee. This would mean I would swap my 60 point contract at OKW for another 60 point contract at OKW, but with the same use year as my other contracts. That way they can link them all under one membership and save on some of the duplicated perks. It would also make my life alot easier.

BTW, I would have loved to have bought my second allotment of points through Disney. I didn't because Disney is not licensed to sell in my province, so the resale route was easier.

[Chuck S]

i am talking about just park tickets. you mentioned that if people can't afford to get in, they dont charge $5/person if you dont have enough money to affor it. So i am saying what it takes to just get into disney world, it doesnt mean you have to stay at a resort there.

Actually, I never said anything about not being able to afford to get in, you have me confused with another poster. I replied to your post about a family of 4 for 4 or 5 days costing $750. I did re-read your post, and see you didn't include any accomodations...so the point of your post about DVC is....? Since the purpose of DVC IS accomodations and not tickets or other perks, are you trying to compare DVC to offsite accomodations? If so, it is apples to oranges. DVC is designed for people who like onsite accomodations, the "perks" can be withdrawn at anytime, and all that is required is for DVC to provide the accomodations, which with 5 or 10 point contracts would be pretty pointless.

[spiceycat]

Disney should setup a system whereby you can swap contracts for a minimal admin fee. This would mean I would swap my 60 point contract at OKW for another 60 point contract at OKW, but with the same use year as my other contracts. That way they can link them all under one membership and save on some of the duplicated perks. It would also make my life alot easier.

BTW, I would have loved to have bought my second allotment of points through Disney. I didn't because Disney is not licensed to sell in my province, so the resale route was easier.

Disney has the attitude that you brought resale not from DVC -so you are stuck with what you have. if you don't like it - then resell it and get a contract that is better for you. However since you can't buy where you are - have you ever talked to your guide....

you have one.

call DVC and ask to speak to your guide. tell him/her that you would rather buy from them but CAN'T....

the guides have been know to talk to the marketing and get into states that the marketing so no point in.... (believe me when DVC first came out - Ala was one of those states)

[Stitch 03]

Disney has the attitude that you brought resale not from DVC -so you are stuck with what you have. if you don't like it - then resell it and get a contract that is better for you. However since you can't buy where you are - have you ever talked to your guide....

you have one.

call DVC and ask to speak to your guide. tell him/her that you would rather buy from them but CAN'T....

the guides have been know to talk to the marketing and get into states that the marketing so no point in.... (believe me when DVC first came out - Ala was one of those states)

Actually I did try that just before buying my second allotment. I was essentially told I was out of luck. He did say that I could buy more points on a subsequent visit, but I wanted the contract prior to my next visit.

Any future purchases will be from Disney as I will probably buy at a new resort (see signature). Though I guess new resort means a third membership.

For all the dual membership is a pain, I deal with it fine. It just costs DVC more, and in turn the membership, then it should.

BTW, I have also tried seeing if there is a way they can link all my contracts, but no luck. Maybe I will have a little chat with my guide when I am there in October.

[LoveMyDisneyCats]

hey duckfan,
I agree with you. We've been members since 98, but it's always been our goal to add on. I can't you how many times these last two years, I've thought how cool it'd be to ADD-ON as a birthday or Christmas for my DH. Unfortunately, though we are huge Disney fans, we are not rich. So to add on 5 or 10 or 15 points would be a perfect size.
And to all of you who are slamming the idea, I don't see why the purchaser, as long as they are already members of at least the min 150 pts, can't just pay whatever closing costs it'd be to add-on ANY amount. And if it's $250 each time, that's their choice.
I agree that no one should be allowed to JOIN with less than 150 points, but I don't think that was the question.

[Chuck S]

hey duckfan,
I agree with you. We've been members since 98, but it's always been our goal to add on. I can't you how many times these last two years, I've thought how cool it'd be to ADD-ON as a birthday or Christmas for my DH. Unfortunately, though we are huge Disney fans, we are not rich. So to add on 5 or 10 or 15 points would be a perfect size.
And to all of you who are slamming the idea, I don't see why the purchaser, as long as they are already members of at least the min 150 pts, can't just pay whatever closing costs it'd be to add-on ANY amount. And if it's $250 each time, that's their choice.
I agree that no one should be allowed to JOIN with less than 150 points, but I don't think that was the question.

It isn't just the closing costs on the intitial purchase, if someone had a 10 or 15 point contract that went to resale, and Disney picked it up through ROFR, Disney would have to pay closing costs on that contract, plus pay a premium for the small contract, as they have to have an offer on it to exercise ROFR. What makes you think some non-member wouldn't try to pick-up that tiny contract for $120 per point or more, just to get the AP discounts, etc.

Since the add on contracts are legally recorded seperately, the only way to prevent that from happening is for DVC to pick-up each and every small add-on as it comes up for resale...costing them a fortune.

[Caskbill]

<snip>...Why we shouldn't be entitled to all the same perks as someone who bought a 150 point contract directly from Disney at the beginning is beyond me. We're still DVC members, and just because we couldn't do the initial outlay for 150 points doesn't mean we're less "worthy" of the perks.

I think that way of thinking is somewhat "elitist". Yes, we didn't do it the traditional way, but we ARE still members. And as such, I think we shouldn't be subjected to a "tiered benefit program".

There's nothing elitist about it at all. Tiered benefit programs exist all over the place. Just look at Airlines, Car Rentals, Hotels, Banks, Stores, Other Timeshares, Credit Cards.

Is it elitist that someone with a Platinum or Gold credit card gets benefits not extended to regular card holders? What about other timeshares that give their members who hold gold level weeks different benefits than the other members? If a bank gives free checking to one group of customers and not another, is that being elitist?

Disney has already determined that 150 points is the minimum that covers all resort fees and associated costs to manage the member's account. Someone with just a 25 point membership barely pays $100/year in dues. There's no way that covers resort costs AND administrative fees, mailings such as the Vacation Magic, Accounting fees, and so on. In fact the $100 probably doesn't cover the cost to Disney just to maintain that membership. So that member may be paying absolutely nothing toward resort maintenance and operating costs. In reality, other members are subsidizing the member who only owns 25 points. Yet you consider it elitist if the 25 point member doesn't get ALL perks.

A 150 point minimum makes sense. It doesn't have to all be with the initial purchase. Someone can start off with 50 points, then add another 50. When they add the 3rd 50, and reach 150 points total, their membership becomes a full benefit one.

That would encourage members to purchase so they can own DVC and use it for their stays. There's no sense in continuing to let someone buy a 25 point contract with the sole intent of getting perks, then only pay $100 in dues, and receive a $400 discount on AP's for a family of 4. And on top of that, let the other members subsidize their low point contract?

[duckfan78]

this is one reason i dont like the boards. I make a post question about something. Just asking a question and everyone gets all emotional and puts there 2 sense in about it instead of just answering. I didn't ask for opinions to begin with.

[Chuck S]

this is one reason i dont like the boards. I make a post question about something. Just asking a question and everyone gets all emotional and puts there 2 sense in about it instead of just answering. I didn't ask for opinions to begin with.

Actually, you did ask for opinions. You asked if anyone knew why contracts were limited to aminimum of 25 points. Reasons given were operating costs to DVC to maintain the membership records, and future ROFR costs to DVC.

You may not like the answers, but you did ask.

[tink_n_pooh]

Actually, you did ask for opinions. You asked if anyone knew why contracts were limited to aminimum of 25 points. Reasons given were operating costs to DVC to maintain the membership records, and future ROFR costs to DVC.

You may not like the answers, but you did ask.

Well, no actually duckfan78 asked for an answer as to why DVC has a min. number of points to purchase, not for a discussion as to whether we think that is the right thing to do or not. Of course, this is the DIS and we do all have opinions. DISer's knowledge of all things Disney as well as our opinions is what makes the DIS so great. Sometimes we just have to put on our flame proof suits :rolleyes1

[duckfan78]

if DVC is going to or thinking of letting members purchase less than 25pts at a time? I just thought it would be a good idea if we could buy less.

It would be nice to maybe buy 10-15pts for my fiancee for the holidays or birthdays. It would just be nice to not have to have a minimum to purchase.

If anyone knows..fill me in..thanks! :thumbsup2

Chuck, read the above original post. asking for options?

[Chuck S]

Chuck, read the above original post. asking for options?

Actually, you asked if anyone knows if Disney will sell or is thinking of selling smaller contracts. You received answers with reasons why they do not.

[crisi]

duckfan78, you also gave your own opinion, which is asking for the opinions of others. And asked to be filled in, which implies you wanted some additional information. Since no one here works for Disney, anything you get here will be speculation.

If you just want facts and no opinions, call your guide (you may still get some opinions anyway). This is a message board, its really hard to control a conversation here.