Just back from a poor trip

[Richyams]

I thought it was supposed to be low crowds!!!

It was packed. There were 20-30 minute lines on most of the booths for the Food and Wine Festival. I have been to this event every year except one xince it began. I have never seen it mobbed like this. Theu have some nerve imposing limited park hours with crowds like that. All the rides had ling lines too, FP return times were hours away. It was pretty ridiculous.

We figured everyone was at Epcot for the festival, we wnt over to MK thinking it would be less crowded, it wasn't. It was also mobbed. The lines on everything were long, the streets were packed, it was not what I was used to. We always go in the off season, I have never seen such crowds in all my trips.

BWV

I never really remember just how tiny those one bedrooms are. When the pull out is pulled out, there is ZERO room left. I remember someone recently saying that the bedroom at OKW and BWV were roughly the same size, LOL, they are no where near the same size. The three of us felt very cramped. We were in room 2129....when you began the trek from the lobby, your firstexperience was the hallway near the elevator, you looked down that hallway and the end of it was a blurr in the distance....you start that trek and realize that the room numbers are a LONG way away from your room. You begin to hope that they skip some or something, but alas, no. You finally reach the end of that hallway and turn only too see anputher seemingly endless corriidor.....finally, this next one is traversed and you get to another corner, you are thrilled that you are now only three or four units from yours and thanking the management that you are not in 2136.

The hallway and its marathon length made going to the lobby or boardwalk for something quick a daunting taks. Unless I could get a guarantee of a room location, I would never stay there again.

VWL

We are figuring that 430 points is not enough. We are going to add on and wanted to see VWL. The resort is spectacular. Every decoration and nuance is perfect. The sitting areas of the villas area is great. The lodge itself, magnificant. The decor of the rooms is very, very nice. Its kind of neat, if you are a member already, they have a room they let you see and there is someone there to talk to. The only problem, the rooms are those same teeny rooms as BWV.

We are going to add more points at OKW. The dues are lower, its the only place we really want to stay and managing the points will be easier.

[robinb]

It was packed. There were 20-30 minute lines on most of the booths for the Food and Wine Festival.

Bummer :(. Was it just as crowded during the week? I had heard that things were busy on the weekends and empty during the week. We're doing a non-DVC trip starting on Friday.

One more question ... did you go to any of the special dinners at the F&W Festival?

[chris1gill]

Sorry to hear this Rich :( I've also heard the crowds have been particularly bad the past week or so... How long were you there? Whenever you stay at Boardwalk, you should request a room close to the elevator by the way!!!

I'm surprised you liked VWL, it so much different & darker than OKW (your favorite resort) By the way we just changed our vacation from VWL back to OKW... When we saw VWL over Labor Day weekend, we decided it was just way too dark for us... OKW here we come!! Doesn't hurt that the 2 bedroom at OKW is the same number of points as the 1 bedroom at VWL!!!

By the way, how many points will you be adding?

[nydizfan]

so sorry for your CRowds. could have been worse.. All i want to say is . I cant wait to see the crowds in Jan. ,,,, hope all is well. dave

[BraveMom3]

Richyams-- sorry to hear that you were dissapointed in your trip, BUT I have to say that it gave my heart a lift to hear about CROWDS for a change! It really makes me anxious when people post that the crowds are very thin, with the economy situation and everything else going on. It's sort of like the saying, "be careful what you wish for".

Hopefully if this trend continues at WDW, the executives will adjust hours accordingly.

[dianeschlicht]

I too will be anxious to see how crowds are in January. It is NEVER crowded then, but if they continue with these short park hours and no EE or E nights, it could be gruesome then too.

I feel somewhat relieved about your comments about BWV and VWL. We stood firm after we first purchased and waited until they started selling the new buildings before we added on at OKW. WE could have added on at BWV right away, but didn't see much point in it. I was beginning to think we should have added on at BWV to have the benefit of the proximity to our two favorite parks, but I was having trouble deciding to go where the points were much more and the rooms were hotel variety instead of vacation home. You make me realize I did the right thing. I remember the last time we stayed at WL just before purchasing DVC. I loved the atmosphere and location, but hated the LOOOOONG halls there. I think I can ride the bus or drive easier than I can deal with the hotel thing.

[Dizzy4Dizney]

We are down here now and the crowds over the weekend were not "that" bad. The longest line I saw was for the Haunted Mansion and it was a 30 min. wait. But I have to admit, we didn't make it to Fantasy land so I can't speak for there.

Also, I think you were in a studio and not a 1 bedroom. We have a 2 bedroom and the second bedroom is a studio and it's a little cramped, especially if you are use to a "real" one bedroom. But it's no smaller than a hotel room.

[dianeschlicht]

Dizzy4Disney, I didn't buy a timeshare to stay in a "hotel room".

[rbuzzotta]

Sorry to hear your trip wasn't perfect Richyams. Maybe with the increase in revenue at the parks then they will reinstitute the cutbacks (slowly but surely!!!).

It is nice to hear that Americans, and others, are venturing out again. I, for one, am beginning to get back to myself (another, slowly but surely!!). My next planned trip is August 2002, but looking into a quick weekend getaway in December!!!!

OKW is awesome!!!

[POOH&PIGLET]

VWL

We are figuring that 430 points is not enough. We are going to add on and wanted to see VWL. The resort is spectacular. Every decoration and nuance is perfect. The sitting areas of the villas area is great. The lodge itself, magnificant. The decor of the rooms is very, very nice. Its kind of neat, if you are a member already, they have a room they let you see and there is someone there to talk to. The only problem, the rooms are those same teeny rooms as BWV.

Wow, what a glowing review. ;) Knowing what an OKW fanatic you are, I was happily surprised at your comments about my home resort.

Overall, did you enjoy your trip?

[Luv2Dream]

We were just at WDW from 10/17 - 10/22. Granted, I only have a 4 yo DD, but the longest line I encountered was 25 minutes at the Haunted Mansion. We practically walked on Peter Pan's Flight and we did walk on It's a Small World. I was told that the Magic Kingdom was packed that Saturday, but we were in another park. I wouldn't say the crowds were low, low, but they certainly were much lower than I expected. However, I've also never been in October. We had a great trip and highly recommend the Not So Scary Halloween Party. As Rich says, we did encounter lines at the Food and Wine Booths, and Epcot World Showcase seemed to be quite popular at night. I wondered if it was because of the Food and Wine Festival.

[Richyams]

Also, I think you were in a studio and not a 1 bedroom.

I have been a member since '92, I know the difference between a studio and a one bedroom VERY well.

The one bedroom is tiny compared to OKW, very tiny. When you open the fold out couch it almost touches the TV. It takes up the whole living room.

The master is even much smaller. The OKW master is much more spacious and comfortable.

I knew there was a trade off in size. I was just reminded how severe that trade off was.

I was only there for two days, Saturday and Sunday. I guess the weekend was worse than the week. We were most shocked at the length of the lines for the booths at the Food and Wine festival.

[Dennis the WDW Menace]

Rich, sorry to hear that your trip had some problems but I'm glad to see that you were able to go and enjoy the Food and Wine treats. We were not able to go this year and we do miss it. We were there the last week of Sept. and I thought that it had the usual number of people at the parks. The CM's told me that the attendance was down but it did not look like it to me. Sept. does not have as many as the rest of the year, thats one reason we go at that time, but the parks were full. No big wait times but that is the case most of our visits. I think with the crowds now that the officials at WDW should look again at going back to normal and making opening times as they were before 9/11, if not only to show that WDW is returning to normal again. I realize that they got a big hit in $$$ due to initial attendance and reservation cancellations but as you have seen, Rich, the people are back and want to enjoy the parks and the earlier opening times seem like the correct thing to do!
We planned another trip and cruise to show our support to WDW in Jan. and I hope that WDW sees that the loyalty of the American public towards WDW is still there and will continue.

[mkkim]

I am very sorry to hear about the size of the crowds. We are leaving next Tuesday and I hope it not that bad by then. If not we will make the best of it...It's our first trip home to VWL. We are staying in a one bedroom. Hope it's not as cramped as you are saying.:(

[Kelly&John]

We just got back from our stay at BWV. We stayed from October 20 - 26th. The crowds were much more intense on the weekends. During the week, the crowds were very manageable. Rich we were in room 1125. It was quite a walk! I'm sorry you didn't have a better time. We had a great time! The beer and wine tasting seminars were very interesting.

Kelly

[sgtdisney]

So much for the argument that the cutbacks to operating hours were needed due to extremely low attendance. Seems that, at the very least, hours should be a normal schedule on Saturday and Sunday. You are not the first person I have heard that said the park isn't as empty as you would think based on Disney's cutbacks.

[Towncrier]

But then again I heard from the husband of a former CM that the attendance at the Magic Kingdom has been as low as 5000 guests at least once in the last couple of weeks. Who knows.

[PKS44]

We were there 10/18-1022. The crowds were bigger than we expected, with 40+ minute waits for BTM, HM, Buzz, by 11 am on Friday and Saturday. We expected less but we were told that the golf tournament and the F&W festival and the FL residents discounts and the FL school holiday were making up for the previous lack of crowds.

This was our 1st trip home, we stayed in studios (BWV and OKW), since it was just a short trip. We toured the VWL one bedroom model and it seemed big enough to us. We were unhappy with OKW studio for reasons outlined in my brief TR elsewhere on this board. You may be referring to my post about the size difference between OKW studios and BWV studios, which we found negligible. I am glad, though, that you like OKW. That leaves more of VWL and BWV for those of us that prefer them! This is what is so great about DVC, choices for many tastes! Now if they would build my Greek Island Villas resort(another thread I posted here)- everything would be perfect.

Paul

[Figaro30]

Richyams....sorry you had such a yucky time. I was told by a CM last week that it is not SLOW at all right now. So who knows why they do what they do!! It certainly isn't because nobody is there!!! Not with waits THAT LONG!!

Hopefully it was just a fluke and the crowds will be way down in three weeks when I get there!! Fingers Crossed!!!!

[mickey7861]

Sorry the parks were packed for you but I'm glad to hear that more people are staying with their vacation plans. We always go in the summer and/or April school vacation week so we're used to crowds.

We stayed at both OKW and VWL in 1 bedrooms this past summer and there is no comparison in size. OKW units are like apartments. My kids slept on the pull out sofa and there was still plenty of room in the living area. I love the large deck there too.

VWL is my favorite for themeing. The resort is gorgeous but after staying at OKW my DH was disappointed in the size. He's strictly an OKW fan.

[DeeP]

I am much more of a lurker/reader than a poster on this board, but I could not help but respond to the original post of this thread.
I always get a laugh when I read about people complaining about the looooooong walks in the hallways at BWV. I guess a lot of people do not do a lot of walking and must drive everywhere at home. We always request a standard villa as far from the elevators as possible, the closer to the tennis courts the better. We find the the villas over the main enterance to be too busy with all the cars coming and going. For us to get to our unit at the very end of the building it takes tops 4 minutes from the elevator, also there are back enterances that take you very quickly to the end units, but then you must walk up stairs, so I am sure some would then complain about this. I can't understand how someone can't handle a 4 minute walk inside an enclosed air conditioned hallway but can handle walking all day in the heat in the parks!
The 1 BR living room at OKW is much bigger but I can't say I have noticed a big difference in the size of a master bedroom in a 1 BR OKW villa vs a 1 BR BWV villa. The studios at OKW can't even begin to compare to the studios at BWV. The BWV studios are much nicer, have more of an apt feel vs a hotel room feel and have a much nicer kitchenette.
As far as the crowds in the parks, I am glad to hear that attendence at WDW has picked up. We are going over Christmas, staying in a villa at BWV that has the loooooong walk to get to and I will be happy to see crowds--Disney needs the business. We go so often that if something is crowded we just move on to something else or else sit and enjoy just being together in such a wonderful place as WDW.
I hope you were able to enjoy something during your trip. You were with your family having a vacation, that alone is something to be very grateful for nowdays. A lot of people are not able to do this due to the state of things in the US right now and how the events of Sept 11 have directly effected them. In the big picture of things in the world right now, waiting in lines to get on rides or buy food at the Food & Wine festival at WDW, making a 4-5 min loooooong walk to get to a deluxe vacation villa at WDW and not having a lot of room after the sofa bed was opened in the deluxe vacation villa at WDW is really like crying with a loaf of bread under your arm. We live in NJ and many of my co workers have had family members die during the Sept 11 tradegy or have children and family members in the service over in Middle East right now fighting for our country--now they have something to complain about.
I thank God everyday that no one in my family was hurt during the tradegy of 9/11 but we do have a family member that is in the service in the Middle East that we worry about constantly. I am very thankful that my family and I are able to go to WDW in Dec for a vacation and that I can spend time with my family in such a great place. They could put us in a cardboard box on one of the back roads of WDW and I would still feel that I was much luckier than a lot of my fellow Americans are right now.

[profdsny]

I'm a bit confused. Talking about the bed room having a pull out couch. That would make the room small, no doubt. But put a pull-out couch in a bed room at OKW and it too would be much smaller. Maybe that's why the couch is in the living room.







"I wouldn't belong to any club that would have me as a member."
Grouch Marx. So why are there still snobs?

[Deb & Bill]

It's nice that owners can visit the other DVC resorts to see what the others have. As an OKW owner, I really like the convenience of parking outside my unit instead of having to park in the lot and walking to the hotel. I prefer the two larger queen sized beds to one queen sized bed up against a wall and a double sleeper sofa. (When the sleeper sofa is pulled out, there is very little room to walk around, especially if you have the studio plus. OKW has a little more room around the beds and you can still get out on the patio.) But I do wish OKW had the nicer, more spacious kitchenette that BWV has. My OKW closet is a little more accessible and the bathroom is easier to move around in. Having the bathroom sinks outside the tub and toilet room is more convenient when you are getting ready in the morning, but the tub and toilet room at BWV is rather compact.

The laundry room at BWV is a nice sized room, but at OKW (by the main pool) it is rather cramped. I haven't tried out the other laundry rooms. Is the laundry room at the BWV just past the elevators on the first floor the only laundry area for the entire BWV DVC resort?

I'd rather walk outside than in the narrow corridors. If you are the least bit claustrophobic, you can get a little worried if you aren't near the elevators. Also if you meet up with someone else (like a housekeeping cart) going the opposite way, it can be difficult to pass by.

We'll try VWL one of these days.

[Dean]

Originally posted by profdsny
I'm a bit confused. Talking about the bed room having a pull out couch. That would make the room small, no doubt. But put a pull-out couch in a bed room at OKW and it too would be much smaller. Maybe that's why the couch is in the living room.
The second BR at OKW has 2 full queen beds, the second BR at BW has a queen and a pull out love seat (full not queen). It's simply that the room is smaller and feels it, especially with the bed pulled out. Some like the room arrangement, others do not but it appears to be a cost saving move more because they can make the rooms smaller than the furnishings are cheaper. Marriott's Grande Ocean in HH has a similar arrangement and is in the process of changing over to 2 queen beds. They say that it's actually cheaper than replacing the pull out.

[TheWho]

DeeP,

simply, Well Said!!!

[ripleysmom]

mkkim, don't worry the 1BRs are not THAT cramped. Rich owns at OKW and the rooms are very spacious there...or so I am given to understand. We have had a 1BR at BWV (which is the same size as VWL) and they are beautiful and large rooms.

[mkkim]

Thank you Ripleysmom! I am so excited about this first trip and I have such high expectations!!! There are two adults and two small children in our family so I started to get a bit worried. I just loved the VWL atmosphere so much that I really didn't think about OKW and BWV room sizes. I am sure we will have to try them out though! Only 7 more days to go!!! I can hardly sleep!!!

[CaptainMidnight]

I never really remember just how tiny those one bedrooms are. When the pull out is pulled out, there is ZERO room left.

Perhaps a two bedroom would have been more appropriate, I hope you didn't exceed the room limits. ;-)

Each resort has advantages over others, and this forum is a great place to share those positives and negatives so that purchasers and those of us who seem to continually add on can make informed decisions regarding a purchase to last some 40 years.

Sorry to hear your trip wasn't the best.

Personally, I like the location of Boardwalk over OKW, but I'm also very interested in the new Beach Club resort. The rooms will also be the small BWV size there, from the model we visited. But they seem fine to me. I'm looking forward to learning more about the resort from this forum, so that I can consider the pros and cons in my add-on purchasing decision. My hope is that all DVC purchasers find the advantages of thier home resort to be the best for them.

Of course, I also like visiting the different resorts for a different themed experience, and that's one of the reasons I bought into the "club" of resort alternatives. There should always be some reasonable availability at the 7 month window (except maybe christmas and spring break), or the "club" isn't working the way it should.

[jx3smom]

Deep, thanks for saying what I'm thinking. We are leaving in 2 hours and are staying in a sudio at BWV.

Mkkim, you will love the BWV. WE have been there twice before and have had a really wonderful time in both the studio and 1 bedroom. Your vacation is what you make of it. If you go not liking your resort in advance you will find things wrong.

Like I said we are leaving soon and are happy to be going and spending time together. My older DS's are in college so it will only be DH, me and DS#3.

I always use the stairs so my walk is never that long but I wouldn't care if it was. We're in Disney World!

[Joeblack]

For those worried about size an the BWV, worry not. They are more than enough for the intended number of people they are designed. Also, they are beautifully appointed and the themeing and location are amazing.

You will notice that it is usually the same OKW member(s) who never have a good thing to say about BWV. However, BWV have always had a higher resale price, are tougher to get outside the 11 month window (yeah, yeah, I know OKW has more units but it is as sold out as BWV) and, although their points cost the same (officially), the rack rates are always higher for BWV FOR THE SAME KIND OF UNIT. Why? Well...DEMAND and SUPPLY. I guess people must be crazy to want such an undesirable property as BWV when they can go to OKW. Go figure!!! I know this board is for people to share their opinions and experiences, but in some cases, the attack on BWV is so vehement and repetitive that it becomes irritating and makes you wonder what the deal is.

Personally I did not find the walking distance to the rooms at BWV to be a problem. We stayed at both BWV and OKW, and as much as we loved both, OKW is more like any regular timeshare (Marriott, Hilton, Westgate, etc). BWV does a better job at "getting you away" from reality with its exceptional themeing and decoration and is next to almost everything. It is surrounded by wonderful restaurants. It has one of the best pools in WDW and you can walk to SAB, YC/BC, Epcot, MGM.

I will not bash OKW because there is no reason to. It delivers what it promises and it is a wonderful resort in its own right. I loved staying there and will do so again in the future.

[Muushka]

Yup, it is the DVC resort war thread again. And it does get old.

As was said by many, each DVC resort has something special. That is why you bought there.

I don't know why people feel the need to make themselves feel better about their purchase by putting another resort down.

Actually, it is pretty sad. :(

[CaptainMidnight]

....in some cases, the attack on BWV is so vehement and repetitive that it becomes irritating and makes you wonder what the deal is.

Perhaps it is time for those who keep perpetuating the resort bashing (Vero seems to be another favorite target) and other negative themes to permanently lighten up a bit, the repeated negativity on repetitive themes is getting a little old, especially from someone(s) who is such a good source of helpful knowledge and good information on many Disney subjects. As several others have said, enough is enough.

:tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

Given the seriousness of current events, it would be a great time for us to come together as a DVC community, like we are doing as a country.

I personally hope to take my brother and his family (of which, a new daughter was born just this October) to BW or BC to celebrate his safe return from his Airforce service in the war in Europe/Asia within the coming year.

:tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

[PamOKW]

I personally hope to take my brother and his family (of which, a new daughter was born just this October) to BW or BC to celebrate his safe return from his Airforce service in the war in Europe/Asia within the coming year.

And I'm guessing they'll love staying at ANY DVC resort. Good comments CaptainMidnight. (And congratulations on the new baby.)

Some people love vanilla -- some people love chocolate --- I LOVE ICE CREAM....that's how I feel about all my DVC choices. ;)

[AnnK]

Deep and Joe black said it so well that there is not much left to say. It's a shame that some posters feel the need to be so negative about other resorts ALL the time. The negativity feeds on itself, then you get people saying they are so glad they waited and did not buy at BWV, that's great that you bought where you want to stay most, but what was the intent behind the post?

I do want to send some pixie dust to you capt. midnight for the safe return of your brother, and blessings for his new baby girl.

[Jenn]

I agree - we bought into DVC last year and have so far stayed at OKW and BWV. We are staying at WLV in March. We loved both and my guess is we will love WLV too. We loved each resort for different reasons and will stay at them all for different circumstances to fit the type of trip we are planning (i.e. if we want to relax a little more - WLV or OKW, we want the close access to Epcot & MGM - BWV). We like to do something a little different each trip, so we stay at different places, get to experience their restaurants that we normally wouldn't travel to, etc.

[Barb]

For someone that just (& I do mean just) bought 230 points at VWL, this thread was probably a mistake to read. There is always that shred of "did I do the right thing" floating around my head when I make a puchase such as this, and this thread has magnified that. We spent a lot of money for something that it seems now, we may be disappointed with. We wanted to join the DVC, and had no alternative but to join the VWL. That was the only resort open at WDW, which is where we want to be. I will try to keep an open mind when we do our first DVC vacation next May.

[Allan]

Barb, don't worry. :) We bought points at OKW in '98 and just added on at VWL this summer. DVC has been more fun than we could have imagined and we still have many years left to enjoy it. On our second trip as DVC members we took some friends that made a point beforehand of telling us they had no interest at all in purchasing a time share. Needless to say they bought points a few days after returning home and they still love it.

[Eeyore2U]

Barb,

Don't worry yourself about others likes and dislikes. If you saw what you bought I'm sure you are satisfied with it. We have stayed in a studio and a 1bdr at BWV already and will be staying in a 2br in February. We own in both the BWV and VWL. I can't wait to stay at the others DVC resprts and form my own opinions. Some people may have gotten used to their home resort and choose not to see the good in others. But you get that with all the resorts at WDW.

Don't stress.

[Richyams]

had no alternative but to join the VWL.

OKW and BWV are still very available in the resale market. MANY, MANY people here ought through resale.

[Dean]

I'm curious as to the posts about the BW bashing. I though the thread was pretty tame. My personal remarks were meant to be factual not bashing and if that's a problem, I'm sorry. The rooms are smaller and the layout appeals to some and not to others. It was a cost saving measure as the trigger. My response was an explanation to clarify an earlier post made by profdsny.

[Lisa F]

I personally was glad to see Rich bashing BWV. In this time of uncertainty, it's comforting to see that some things never change. If Rich suddenly had something nice to say about BWV, I'm not sure I could take it.

Lisa (happy BWV and VWL owner, who would prefer to not stay at OKW even if they tripled the size of the units and gave me my own private attached garage because she doesn't value those things!)

[Muushka]

Great attitude Lisa F!

I will try to do the same!!! :) :) :) :) :)

(Dean, you are a great poster. You give info without bashing.)

[brittsmum1998]

Well put Lisa.......I think people that have been on this board a while learn to take Rich with a grain of salt... a BITTER large grain of salt ;) I don't think too many people expected Rich to come back from anywhere OTHER than OKW saying he enjoyed his mini vacation....DITTO TO DEAN...your posts are never bashing. They are well informed and NOT biased.

[Regina]

Hey Barb,
Don't give your purchase at VWL a second thought. We bought at OKW early on. There were less than 500 DVC members at the time. We've watched the DVC system grow at an incredible pace.

We just bought an add on at VWL, and we're very excited at having this second "home."

I'm glad that all of the DVC resorts have something different to offer. It would be pretty boring if they were all identical.

Yes, the room sizes vary, but they're all spacious compared to the days when my family of 5 would sleep in a hotel room with a rollaway brought in. Talk about cramped! There's no comparison.

We love it, and have never regretted our decision. I'm sure that you'll be very happy when you hear your first "Welcome Home!"

[PKK/MJK]

Okay, since we are allowed to give our opinions--here goes. I disagree with DeeP. I FAR prefer the studio at OKW to Boardwalk--and YES, I have stayed in both of them. The storage in the BWV studio is not nearly as good--nothing can be put under the bed (like suitcases), half of the closet is inaccessible as it is "hidden" behind the sink, there are only two tiny drawers in the bureau. The bathroom is TINY and if you are standing at the sink outside the toilet area and someone comes out, they slam into you with the door. The sofa is nice, but when opened it really crowds the room--and I don't believe it is queen size, although I could be wrong here. The balcony at BW is positively tiny. That being said, the "kitchenette" area is nice, although I had problem reaching things because I am rather short. Some people would prefer a sofa to two beds--so for a couple--this would be nice. Boardwalks view is tremendous and of course, it has wonderful access to both Epcot and MGM. As for the looooong walks to the rooms--this can definitely be true. The argument that people walk all day at the parks so a long walk at the hotel shouldn't be a problem is a silly comparison. If you are exhausted from a long day at the parks, a looooong walk to the room can be a pain in the neck!!

I do not consider this BWV bashing--it is a lovely DVC facility and what I've said here is fact. Lots of people disagree with me--and that is fine. Fortunately Disney has made accommodations for everyone's tastes. So we can all stay where we are happy!

[dianeschlicht]

Pkk/MJK

Amen! Expressing an opinion is not bashing. So many of us have preferences that differ, and we all have options.

[CaptainMidnight]

Expressing an opinion is not bashing. So many of us have preferences that differ, and we all have options.

Agreed. Expressing opinions is one thing, especially when it helps others make informed decisions. Constantly overly negative, repetative bashing without resonable purpose is another. Some of us are simply (and hopefully politely) asking that the tiresome later be toned down. The request to tone down the negativity is itself repetative so I'll stop my repetative request in this thread with this posting.

May the future of all DVC resorts be very bright and may many people (including those who are overly negative) enjoy the benefits and advantages of any of the wonderful resorts they wish, both on-site and off-site. May the DVC experiences help bring much joy to all DVC families and thier guests. That is the beauty of DVC ownership. I hope to stay at almost all of them through the coming years. My thanks to this DIS board and excellent moderators and contributors for helping me participate in that DVC ownership beyond just my DVC resort stays.

:tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

[KirstenB]

Ya know, each DVC property has its advantages and disadvantages. Big whoop. We own at OKW, and have a 3 year old daughter. Right now, it suits our needs well. Some time ago, when this topic came up, I believe it was AnnK who pointed out how much her teenagers love BWV. When our daughter gets older, we may try to book at BWV as well. A good part of what sold us on DVC was the flexibility. Who knows which resort will suit our needs and wants best over a 40 year span. That's why choices are so great---we don't need to try to gaze into a crystal ball.

Bottom line: book what you like, and quit beating up on other resorts. Just because a resort suits your needs now does not make someone else's choice bad. It is just different.

Pam, good analogy on the ice cream. That really sums up my thoughts on the flexibility of DVC.

[Joeblack]

Dean: Your posts are always informative and very useful.

I don't expect to read all wonderful posts about any restaurant, resort or attration every time. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, in my post I was refering to the same old repetitive "BWV stinks because units are smaller"attitude that I have read almost 2500 times. I mean, if someone does not like it....Fine..don't stay there. All the better for the hundreds of people who want to do so and cannot because it's unavailable.

Lisa: I loved your post :)

Barb: I forgot to mention WLV in my post. Well... WLV is GORGEOUS. I own at BWV and decided to add on at WLV a few months ago jsut becasue of the beauty and themeing of the resort. The atmosphere at WLV is amazing and it suceeds in taking you to a "world of nostalgia" It is conveniently located and has great restaurants and an incredible pool in it. WL is arguably the most beautiful resort in WDW. The first time I saw the lobby, my jaw dropped to the floor.

When WLV is sold out it will be as difficult to get in as the BWV unless you have the 11 month owner's window. On the other hand, more often than not, you will find availability at OKW within the 7 month window. With this, I am not putting OKW down. I will emphasize again that OKW is a beautiful resort and a great value.

You did the right thing. Just wait until you stay in the WLV and you will just regret not having joined before. BWV and WLV VILLAS ARE NOT TINY!!!!. They are about 20% smaller than OKW, but they are waaay bigger than a deluxe hotel room and more than enough for 4 people to stay in total comfort.

[dianeschlicht]

CaptainMidnight,
I hope you don't consider me to be a "basher". I think the options of DVC are very clear cut. For those of us who really don't like the hotel atmosphere, we have the option of OKW. For those who don't mind the hotel setting and value location to the parks over other amenities, there is BWV and VWL. For some the point cost of a stay is the difference in where they book. I can't tell you how many times I have read on this board that people are booking at OKW because it was less points or all that was available. It is not bashing to state a fact about what amenities and pros and cons there are to each resort. No, I do not believe OKW is perfect.... It is farther from the parks etc. For some of us that is a plus not a negetive. That is why we have the options.

[Barb]

Thank you, everyone, for your opinions, good and not so good. I feel very strongly that we've made the right decision for us. As for the size of rooms, it won't matter that one room may be 20% smaller-my husband and I are probably going to be the primary users, without the kids. (the boys are 18, 21 & 22) We do love the themeing of WL, always have. As for the rooms, the resorts, etc. we will keep an open mind and reserve judgement until we've stayed there. (just as we do when we stay at one of the regular WDW resorts) We are very much looking forward to our trip in May! :D :D

[CaptainMidnight]

I hope you don't consider me to be a "basher".
Nope, thanks for sharing your views.

[Goofy Fan]

I guess I'm more of a "lurker" as well on these boards. But I have to tell you, Rich sometimes has me doubled over with laughter with some of his posts. I'm willing to bet that he's never uttered an opinion in anger, or in a "bashing" kind of way. All are opinions, some are "tongue in cheek". I remember his post entitled "Turncoat" before he left on this trip to BWV. Hilarious! Some of us need to re-read that post to get in the right mood for his after trip report. You can check out his previous post below. I don't see the "bashing" here, or in other people's opinions besides Rich's. It's all good fun, so to speak.


http://www.disboards.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105993

[Lesley]

Welcome home Barb! It's about time you joined! If you hang out on the DVC board more you'll get used to Richyams...he's one of the more colorful members. ;)

We did an add-on at VWL ourselves...not having ever stayed there, but having visited WL, looked at photos of the VWL rooms and read many wonderful reports here. I'm sure you'll be quite happy with your choice. I believe it was Lisa R who made a great post about her trip to VWL in April that got me really considering an add on there.

And I'll be happy to tell you all about our stay at VWL after our trip in January!

[Lisa F]

Originally posted by dianeschlicht
For those who don't mind the hotel setting and value location to the parks over other amenities, there is BWV and VWL

First, I just want to say that I am not saying that you're a basher at all... but since you asked, I just wanted to point something out. This may sound nitpicky, but usually it's the small things that people say that end up snowballing into a big fight.

There's a difference between objectively comparing the two resorts and implying that one is worse than the other because of the whatever that difference is. I quoted your one sentence here because it strikes me as that kind of a statement.

The implication is that BWV and VWL's more hotel-like atmosphere is a necessarily bad thing and that the only good thing about those two is their proximity to the parks. As a BWV owner, it's generally thinking like that which can put me a little on the defensive about my home and might turn a post that starts as the positives and negatives of one resort vs another into something that people call resort bashing.

Not only do I not MIND the hotel atmosphere of BWV and VWL, I actually PREFER it. I love hotels because to me, they are part of what makes a vacation special and different from being at home. I love dropping my car off and forgetting about it for a few days while I walk to and from MGM and Epcot from BWV or take the boat from VWL. I love being able to pick it up for a few evenings to go to downtown disney or to a nice dinner at a different resort and have it brought to front of the resort for me with the a/c already running and the car already cooled off rather than getting into a steaming hot car. When it's pouring and I'm coming back in my car, I love being able to drop it off under cover and just stroll back to my room rather than having to make a mad dash through a torrential downpour, even if it is just 20 feet.

I love full room service and take advantage of it at least once a trip. I don't mean pizza and sandwich delivery, I mean the whole 9 yards with the white tablecloth, the table set with real flatware and a gourmet meal served on real dishes. I love that I don't have to cook or clean up afterwards (touch the room service button and they come back and take it all away). When I have room service I feel pampered and relaxed and on vacation. In my opinion, not only am I not giving up amenities to stay at BWV or VWL over OKW, but I am actually gaining some.

Of course hotels have their drawbacks. If I need to do laundry, I need to go to the laundry room. If I want to store leftovers, I have to request (and pay for) a fridge. Generally there's no way to heat them up the next day, though. If I want to have breakfast in the room my only choice is room service and that can get expensive after a while.

To me, BWV and VWL take all of the positives of a wonderful, luxurious hotel vacation and adds the conveniences of home. I can do laundry in my room, I can store leftovers, I can heat them up, and I can even cook breakfast if I desire. When we have kids, we can put them to sleep in the other room while we continue to enjoy our evening, also not a luxury you generally have with a hotel room unless you get connecting doors.

I guess the equivalent to what you said about BWV for talking about OKW would be me saying "OKW is perfect for those who don't mind being nowhere near the parks and having to park their own car in order to have a larger unit." That really makes it sound negative. I know that being away from the hustle and bustle of the parks and being able to park your own car are two things that OKW owners actually value very highly, and if I were to describe OKW in the way I just did before I'd have a ton of people jumping down my throat for bashing OKW.

Anyway, like I said, I don't think you're a basher at all. I think you're a wonderful poster who has a lot to contribute. I just wanted to point out how these kinds of things can get out of hand and cause one group of owners or another to become defensive. I'm sure Rich is getting a good chuckle out of all of this too. :)

Lisa

[sgtpet]

Can't we all just get along? Let's bash VB. Only kidding. I just purchased at VWL and think it is fantastic. I purchased at the offices in the BWV. They are fantastic too. On my trip I visited the OKW area and it is also fantastic. They all are great in their own way. Being proud of where you own is great, but don't let it get personal. Hopefully we are purchased where we want to stay and we should all have the opportunity to stay at all WDW DVC resorts already or over the next 40 years. Everybody has their own choices. Let's respect that.

[PamOKW]

Let's bash VB.

Uh, oh.....Rich has led some pretty strong arguements there as well! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Lisa F]

Why don't we go back to bashing other orlando area timeshares? :)

Lisa

[Dean]

The pull out in the second BR/studio at BW, WL, VB, etc are love seat size = full size, not queen.

Also, that white and black checked chair at WLV is ugly, I dont' care what anyone says. LOL.

[JonHM]

*Excellent* post! You said exactly what I was thinking. I, too, noticed that single sentence in Diane's post and was going to respond until I saw that you had already said everything that I was going to say.

That said, I must add along with everyone else that Diane is NOT a basher, her posts are always informative, valuable and well thought out; it just goes to show you how one little sentence can convey connotations that will evoke defensive responses in others.

The room size difference does not bother me at all, BUT (and this is a very big BUT) we just discovered and joined DVC this year. *IF* we had been used to having all that space in the OKW villas and THEN gone to BWV and VWL, I could see where there would be a tough adjustment. It's hard to accept change once you've gotten used to something.

Dean: I must also agree with others that you definitely were *not* bashing, even in the slightest, either.

[Lesley]

Oh, its was Lisa F's trip report I was referring to I think.....was that you Lisa F? With the awesome trip and glowing reports from VWL?

And I guess now's not the time to bring up my dh's two word description of OKW...:D

[Muushka]

Dittos to what JonHM said, Lisa F. Great post. Well said.

Rich, are you laughing at us????? :(

[Richyams]

Actually, I am. I think that it is a riot that so many are so worked up about BWV bashing.

Compared to OKW, the units are tiny. Compared to the 12 second walk from your car out front, the TREK to your room at BWV is awful.

WHere is the bashing?

Methinks some doth protest too much......

[Muushka]

I choose not to respond!

[stephcm]

I have to say that we checked into the Dolphin on Wednesday night, the 24th, and were at the Boardwalk by 9:00. It was deserted!!!!!
Thursday we went over to MGM at about 10:30, and had no more than a 10 minute wait on ANYTHING including ToT, and RnRCoaster! Several times we commented on the lack of people.
In 3 hours time we did, RnR, ToT, Great Movie Ride, Muppets, Star Tours, Indy, shopping.
The Dolphin seemed empty, as well. We would look out our window every morning and see practically no one at the boat launches or walking the Boardwalk.
On Saturday, Epcot was crowded, but in general, I have never seen WDW as empty as it was this trip.

[raidermatt]

Hey Rich- I usually don't get involved in these little bash/not bashing fests.

I mean, we all know that compared to the action at BW, OKW is BORING.

I'm with you. How a statement like that could be interpreted as bashing, I'll never know....



;)

[Richyams]

Except that "boring" is a judgement or opinion.

The size of the units and the distance traversed to get to them are indisputable facts.

[raidermatt]

Ahhhh, yes. The smaller size and greater distance are indisputable.

But the words tiny and trek are subjective. Just because a room is smaller, it is not necessarily tiny. Just because a walk is longer, even significantly, it is not a trek. (trek could possibly be an objective term, but certainly you used it subjectively).

Its also indisputable that BW has a more "active" atmosphere. To be truly objective, we could count stores, restaurants (and square footage and patronage), pool size, numbers of "bright lights", etc, etc. Those would lead to indisputable differences in numbers of options for activities, and the atomosphere surrounding them. But as I'm sure you agree, even if OKW came up short in these counts, whether its boring or not is up to the individual.

[Lisa F]

Sorry, Rich, I just had to dispute some of your "indisputable facts."

When the pull out is pulled out, there is ZERO room left.


Next time I go I will take out my tape measure and measure the actual square footage, but somehow I suspect that no matter what your perception is, there is actually a non-zero amount of space left in the room when the pull out is pulled out. I think this statement would be more accurately labeled "hyperbole" than "indisputable fact."

The hallway and its marathon length

26 MILES?!? Wow, I am in much better shape than I thought! Able to walk 26 miles back and forth several times a day without getting out of breath, breaking a sweat or tiring. Well, if I have two measurements to take with my tape measure it might make it worth taking! Again, I am disputing your "indisputable fact" and putting it in the catagory of hyperbole.

Unless, of course, you are just trying to say that it's too long for you. In that case, you could just say that it's too long for you. To say that it's too long for everyone is a judgement or opinion that not everyone shares with you. Just like for some people, OKW is boring and for others OKW is relaxing.

Lisa

[Blake]

I feel your pain!!! I don't see how any compassionate person would expect you to take that looooooong walk to and from your room when you have a full day of walking planned. The injustice!!!

So I'm going to let you in on a big secret that only us BWV owners know about. It's listed in the special BWV addendum to the ownership contract.

Just ask at the desk for a "Puler's Chair":

http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/activity/events/sedchair.gif

Two CM's will gladly carry you to and from your room. And if the end of the hall is just a blur, a third CM will come along to give you a complimentary eye exam.

Now you know why our dues are a bit higher. :D

[AnnK]

Raidermatt and Lisa you both make some excellent points.


Blake I am still laughing about "puler's car" Oh the wondeful options of DVC. ( Yes I was wondering why we were paying those higher dues) too funny!

[Blicker]

Hey guys cut Rich a break about his whining about the long walks at BWV. Remember he does have a heart condition where he had to be hospitalized.

[PKS44]

For my fellow BWV owners (and lovers of same):

Shhhh!
As I alluded to in my earlier post. If someone likes OKW better than BWV that makes more of our home available to those of us that want it. And we (BWV lovers) all know that easy availability is really the only "bad" thing about our home. Let the OKW people snipe all they want. Let them even encourage others to stay anywhere but BWV. That will be fine with me. I was not too thrilled that I could only get 2 of my days at my home on short notice. We had to spend the rest of the time at OKW, which does have all that wonderful availability.

Paul

[BillM]

Seems like we've been down this road before. Why don't we hang it up.

[DeeP]

Paul,
I agree 100% with your post! It always amazes me that the inferior BWV is 99% of the time so hard to get reservations at short notice yet the superior OKW is always available at very short notice! Hmmmmmm somebody must be filling those tiny rooms with the long treks to get to them. I must admit, as a BWV owner who goes to WDW 3-4 times a year so therefore I do not always plan my visits 11 mos ahead, it does get annoying to call member services and be told BWV is all booked or else that I can get 2 out of 9 nights at BWV and then be told "But there is plenty of availabilty at OKW". Grrrrrr, if I wanted to stay at OKW, I would have bought at OKW! I am really, really hoping with the opening of BCV it will be easier to get reservations at BWV in a shorter booking window, like OKW is. Many people must obviously like the location, the tiny rooms and the long trek to the BWVs, because they certainly book up fast!

[ripleysmom]

Must be those devious DVC sales reps faking everyone into thinking that they want long trudges to tiny rooms....

[Sammie]

It does interest me that some really believe that Disney is not experiencing a drop in crowd attendance.

Certainly you can't think one Sat and Sunday in Oct give you a true picture of the situation. Attendance has been down for months, even during the summer. Also I see no reasoning behind the belief that Disney can make more money in fewer hours and closing resorts. If the attendance and room bookings would support full hours and full resorts, Disney would provide them.

Weekends in the Fall especially Oct have always been the most crowded days of the week. Disney is doing a huge marketing campaign to attract visitors within driving distance to spend the 3 day weekend.

I have too many friends that work there in hourly and salary positions to not know how serious the situation truely is.

Also I find it interesting that everyone wants the parks to be less crowded, but they don't want Disney to cut any services due to lack of attendance. Exactly how does that work?

[CaptainMidnight]

On the CNN website, there's a story titled, "Some Disney World actors get pink slips" including a layoff of over 180 actors from cost reductions, including reducing the number of shows, like going from 8 Indiana Jones shows to five. Lots of people are loosing thier jobs given the economic hardship September 11th has caused. Given that, I can certainly put up with the temporary unavailability of EE or a few other cost reduction strategies.

It is ceratainly time to pull together.



:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[mkkim]

I saw that announcement on the CNN scroll last night. Can't believe they actually posted it. We leave in three days. I am a little disappointed but I am sure we'll still have fun. I feel sorry for all those in Disney that have been laid off. We know how it feels. Been in that situation for the past three months.

[SueM in MN]

My DH and I were at WDW in mid-July for a 5 day trip and found it to be much less busy than we expected. We walked on most of the rides with less than a 10 minute wait. The only exceptions were the "Mountains" and Test Track, but we used the singles line and walked on quickly. This was not what we expected from our past July experiences. Parts of the parks seemed almost deserted.
Now for the resort part, we had to stay at OKW (our home resort) since our choice for this trip, BW, was booked. Since it was just the 2 of us, we wanted the "apartment in the city" atmosphere more than we wanted the "big house in the country" feeling, but, alas, we had to put up with all that extra space and a view of the golf course. ;)

[prplcrzy]

Hey Rich,

Sorry to hear you had a bad time, but I was wondering if I was vacationing in the same place you were? There was minimal park attendance, no lines and the shows were never full like usual. I saw every thing I wanted and then some. Would you mind going to Disney next year, last full week in September and letting me know what park you will go to in advance. This way I will know where all of the people will be when I am there and can avoid the crowds.

But seriously, I have never stayed at OKW but recently added on there. We had some friends stay in a two bedroom and all I have to say is "OH MY GOD". The rooms are so much bigger there, and I can see why Rich would rather stay there. We are staying there next September and I can't wait to have all of that room. We still like the Boardwalk and will continue to stay there, but we will be alternating it with stays at OKW.

Hey Rich, maybe you can rent one of those larks for the hallways at BWV next time you stay. This will make the marathon more tolerable. Just don't forget to use the horn when speeding down the straightaways, I don't want to get hit!!!!