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View Full Version : Do you feel some threads try to make you inadequate??


Lorikr65
07-07-2006, 02:11 PM
I know it's not intentional and I don't mean to pick on anyone. I also know we ask these questions to see how we line up with the rest of our peers. But, I feel like some people here have hundreds of thousands in savings and college funds and 401K, etc. I have some but I choose to be a SAHM so not nearly as much as others seem to have. I know some people come on and say how they are in debt and I've seen people be comforting to them and others chew them out for what they got themselves into. This is for the people reading these threads and feeling a bit inadequate because they haven't saved as much as others - we all don't have tons of money saved for retirement so don't feel bad!!!!

formernyer
07-07-2006, 02:18 PM
I don't think anybody is trying to make you feel inadequate. If not saving as much money as other people bothers you, then get a job.

Some people work by choice and make a ton of money.

Some people work by necessity and make a decent living.

Some people work hard and manage their money responsibly, but don't make enough money to ever get rich.

Some people choose to not work and, therefore, have less savings than those who work.

Some people hold a steady job, but live above their means and never get ahead.

Some people are lazy, don't work, and live off of the system.

Life is all about choices. Make the choices that are right for you and don't worry about what other people are doing.

(Admittedly, I can't help but remain angered by the irresponsible people who spend above their means, live off credit cards, default on payments, and cost the responsible people like me more money in the long run, but that's an entirely different topic).

imsayin
07-07-2006, 02:27 PM
This is for the people reading these threads and feeling a bit inadequate because they haven't saved as much as others - we all don't have tons of money saved for retirement so don't feel bad!!!!

And the first response is one that can make some feel inadequate :confused3

You can never put a price on being a SAHM. To me, that is worth more than tons of money in the bank. I've been a SAHM for years, and I do struggle with not earning/saving what I could, but I prefer to be home with my kids, and it works for us, so I do.

EnnEss
07-07-2006, 02:29 PM
Wow......


Lorik, I wouldn't be too worried about it. Some people probably are 'looking down' or whatever at others, but its just to be ignored. Everyone has different financial situations for so many different reasons its impossible to judge them on it without reading a 1000 page summary of their life to that point and even then.....

Those that have debt probably struggle with it daily and are on these boards to either plan a vacation that they've worked hard to accomadate or are simply enjoying the magic of disney from home (basically to enoy themselves). Just ignore those negative posts :goodvibes and have fun!

FayeW
07-07-2006, 02:32 PM
Yeah, some posters tend to get a little preachy, but those types are on all the boards, not just this one. The Dining Plan sub-board has a lot of "holier than thou" types on it, as does the resort board. It is great to aspire to be debt free, with fully funded retirement and college funds, but the reality is that this board is not proportionate to the population, and there are many more of us who make a good living, pay our bills, and provide well for our families. Having some debt is not something to be ashamed of. For us, it is all about balance. We have some debt, some savings, good equity in our home. We watch our pennies, and that usually means we can afford some of the big things in life. Certainly, we could make more financially sound decisions than we do, but we've made some excellent decisions along the way, and we live a comfortable life, (payments and all).

Todd&Copper
07-07-2006, 02:33 PM
Lorikr,

I stopped reading a lot of threads on this board b/c I was reading them as people bragging about what they have and how smart they are. I am an attorney, but I do not work in private practice, so I am not rolling in money. My husband was recently laid off. I wish we had more money to invest right now, but we don't. Thank God for my 401(k) and the fact that we have no kids (yet). Now, I kind of skip over most threads where people are asking about financial advice. It's better for my blood pressure.

nbodyhome
07-07-2006, 02:38 PM
Wow, the first response was a bit harsh.

Not everyone has enough money to even get by, even if they work really hard.

I don't have as much savings at this point as many of the people here - but I certainly don't feel inadequate. I don't think anyone can make you feel inadequate but yourself. I do think that posting here and reading the threads is great in that it can help everyone with spending/saving habits.

I do get frustrated - not so much with anonymous posters, but with family members who make money, say they have none to save, and then they waste it without thought. I hope we never have to support any of them due to their bad habits. But it took me many years, and a lot of trial and error, to get to the point I'm at now as well.

Anyway - each person is different, and if you do the best you can, then that is the most important thing. Not everyone will have a million dollars in the bank for retirement and a large house. I also prefer Clark Howard to Dave Ramsay, because I think that his approach is more sound for the average person (and he doesnt' come across judgementally most of the time).

ClarabelleCowFan
07-07-2006, 02:40 PM
Actually I take it the other way. I have to admire someone who has been disciplined enough to build their savings up the way they have and still be able to find money for vacations to Disney.

We all make choices and no one can make you feel bad about those choices unless you let them. A friend of mine used to say "you can't be a doormat unless you lay down in front of someone and let them walk all over you".

I have made bad choices in life but I have learned from them and don't make them again. I have a career that I love that allows me to pay the bills, take the kids to Disney twice a year AND stay home with them the vast majority of the time. I could have gotten a more traditional job that didn't require me to travel or that offered a retirement plan but I would not be happy in a job like that.

We don't try to keep up with the Joneses - we just do what is best for our family.

midwestdee
07-07-2006, 02:42 PM
I think there is a lot of middle ground between irresponsible welfare cheats and millionaires - a view apparently not shared by formernyer. It is true that a website devoted to WDW will probably have a disportionate share of high income people - not everyone is - I don't care what anyone says there is a limited # of jobs that pay $150 thousand or more a year. Among baby boomers - many inherited between a nice nest egg to invest with and a good size pile of money from their parents that probably wouldn't spring for central airconditioning in their own houses while they were alive. I do know what you meant in your post - you can get the feeling that you are the only person on the website without a BMW in the driveway, unlimited resources, etc..... So relax, you have plenty of company. I'm a pretty lucky person - so that while it would be nice to be filthy rich - I really can't say I am lacking for anything. I have 2 healthy kids and a husband I'm still speaking to after nearly 30 years - so I can't complain! Thanks for an interesting post and the responses it prompted - there sure are a lot of ways to measure wealth!

mamalle
07-07-2006, 02:46 PM
I 2nd ya Midwestdee.
I tend to skip over some threads lately too. I also tend to wonder if its all really true in real life also. I wouldnt be boasting to people all over the internet. :confused3

FayeW
07-07-2006, 02:49 PM
I have 2 healthy kids and a husband I'm still speaking to after nearly 30 years - so I can't complain!

OK, this line made me giggle! I'm still speaking to mine after 16+ yrs, and home renovations.

utahkennedys
07-07-2006, 02:49 PM
Whew, I'm glad there are some "regular" people on this board! I spend a lot of time on the DVC boards where I read of many people owning 1,000+ DVC points (equal to over $85,000!) and I start to feel like somewhere we took a wrong turn! I have a J.D., a great part time job, and DH has his MBA with a fabulous job, and there is no way, no how we could afford to pay $85k for a vacation plan! Even at our income, between paying off student loans and our large mortgage payment, we drive old cars that are paid for, etc. we still don't have tons leftover after 401k contributions. So, you aren't alone! And, all the money in the world doesn't matter if at the end of it all you aren't satisfied with the kind of life you led. Being a SAHM is very, very honorable.

Rozzie
07-07-2006, 02:51 PM
I have lurked here for years, and really value the advice I have gleamed from these boards. Go to creditboards.com and the game is fixing credit and getting a lot credit. The DIS Budget boards theme is saving and learning to do without. (the last two I could fine tune).
I do have some debt, and like to knock it out this year. I am not drowning in debt, and live a very comfortable lifestyle. Yet, spending time on the financial threads helps me remind myself of my debt free goal. Kinda like what my tennis coach used to tell me "if you want to get better, play with better players than yourself."

Don't ever feel bad for being a SAHM. I admire the sacrifices you make. :thumbsup2

tinaluis
07-07-2006, 02:53 PM
OP I hear ya! Our family has decided that DH will be a SAHD so we're not always able to save as much as we'd like to. (Of course, we'd have more money to save if he worked, but that defeats the idea of him staying home with our DDs). When I see estimates about how much $$$ we'll need in retirement thrown around here, I'm speechless. However, when I look at what DH and I would like our actual retirement to be, I think we're doing OK. We hardly "live large" now and don't expect to when we're retired either. We're on target to only have to eat cat food 2x a month, instead of every day ;). Seriously, though, we do the best we can with what we have, enjoy our time together, and try not to live off of our credit cards. To some, that may mean living foolishly, but it suits us just fine!

Also, the "ignore" button is a great feature on these boards. It's saved me from getting aggravated many times.

nbodyhome
07-07-2006, 02:55 PM
Whew, I'm glad there are some "regular" people on this board! I spend a lot of time on the DVC boards where I read of many people owning 1,000+ DVC points (equal to over $85,000!) and I start to feel like somewhere we took a wrong turn!

Wow, I didn't realize it cost that much for that many points? I often have read about people taking their "free" vacations, but that definitely isn't free!

I think the most important thing is to really instill money management in younger people. I didn't learn this, and learning young is the most important thing. I've a family friend who has a 21 year old son, with a $300K house, a good job, and drives an old car instead of something new to save money (he is very frugal). He bought his fiancee's diamond ring on Ebay, and he did spend a couple of thousand - but some co-workers of his changed the ring in the envelope (which he'd sent to work) with a crackerjack type ring as a joke. He is known as being really thrifty, and I wish I'd learned that young.

tarheelmjfan
07-07-2006, 02:57 PM
Over time I've learned which threads to skip. Although, I didn't think this would be one of them. Some people just feel the need to express their opinion no matter how harsh, & offer it whether it's solicited or not. :sad2: Thankfully, this isn't nearly as prevalent on this board as it was a few months ago. :thumbsup2 I was about ready to abandon the Budget Board at that time. :guilty:

Personally, I enjoy the threads offering constrructive advice on saving, investing, etc. on a personal finance level. I skip the threads about specific money matters on a personal or national level. Frankly, I couldn't care less how much money anyone else has, or how they choose to spend it. IMHO, those who feel the need to constantly criticize strangers who don't make decisions they think they should just really need to get a life. Noone wants to hear it!!!

shirleyb
07-07-2006, 03:10 PM
Stick around the internet long enough and you'll find all kinds of opinions and you can't let them get you down.

I've always been a working mom, and frankly always been jealous of the SAHMs, so I certainly wouldn't look down on you. I applaud any that are able to do that.

pearlieq
07-07-2006, 03:16 PM
I get your point, to an extent, but I hope you realize the answer lies in you, not the people in this community.

As the old saying goes, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.

No one is perfect, no one has it all. I wish I were richer, thinner, and wiser, and sometimes when I read about a person who has more than me, I feel a twinge of jealousy. But 99.9% of people here aren't out to make anyone feel bad or inadequate. They're just interested in discussing and learning.

No one should have to apologize for having money. Sometimes I feel there are people on these boards that would want that and I find it frustrating.

Here's a metaphor:

I have a weight problem. Sometimes on the WISH boards, people will post of their success when they meet a weight goal, or talk about how much they have lost. Sometimes I get a little jealous of these posters and wish I were in their shoes.

Would it be productive of me to decide they were posting about their success to make me feel bad? Would it help me at all to decide that their achievements were unrealistic? Would it be better if I found a community where a bunch of us overweight people got together and told each other that losing weight is impossible and that it's just fine to be big?

What if instead I recognized that my feeling a little inadequate in front of other people's successes meant that there were things in my life I wished I would improve? And then what if I decided to listen to people who have lost weight successfully and tried the methods they used? Wouldn't that be a better use of my time and energy?

That's how I see it, anyway...

Jalva22
07-07-2006, 03:21 PM
More power to all of you SAHM's! In the long run, that will be worth far more than any financial guru's advice you'll ever see on this board.

imsayin
07-07-2006, 03:26 PM
I have a weight problem. Sometimes on the WISH boards, people will post of their success when they meet a weight goal, or talk about how much they have lost. Sometimes I get a little jealous of these posters and wish I were in their shoes.

Would it be productive of me to decide they were posting about their success to make me feel bad? Would it help me at all to decide that their achievements were unrealistic? Would it be better if I found a community where a bunch of us overweight people got together and told each other that losing weight is impossible and that it's just fine to be big?

I totally agree with this analogy (and sometimes that little jealousy can motivate you). The problem sometimes is in the delivery of the information. Are the people meeting their weight goals sharing their success or are they talking down to those that haven't. If I lose weight and post how easy it was, why can't everyone just control their urges, etc., it doesn't come across the same as just saying "hey I met my goal, yeah!". Same applies to financial info. That said, this is a public board, and you will get all opinions on all topics. Like you said, "no one can make you feel inferior without your consent" (BTW, love that quote, sounds a bit Dr. Phil-ish, lol).

barbeml
07-07-2006, 03:27 PM
DH and I are doing just fine, but I get really inspired by the folks who are doing amazingly well AND the folks who are working hard to do better.

If you are making good choices that are right for you, there is no reason to feel inadequate.

Most of the stories here are not about people who had the easy life handed to them, but about folks who make smart choices and and live with personal responsibility and discipline. We can all learn and/or gain reinforcement from these posts, whether we consider them "bragging" or not. I know I feel passionate about living below your means because I know what the rewards are...and I wish everyone could toss the debt monkey off their backs.

The problem in America today seems to be that everyone watches TV and believes the Madison Avenue message that you should buy buy buy because "You're worth it!" and if you don't max out your credit cards on a lifestyle you can't afford, you're worthless. Trying to make you feel inadequate is what advertising is all about.

Miss Jasmine
07-07-2006, 03:56 PM
I tend to skip the preachy threads. I can usually tell from the title or OP which ones those will be.

I do think some people like to boast around here, but it's to help all the little people, right. ;)

Stein
07-07-2006, 04:04 PM
We gave up $35,000 a year to have my wife stay at home with our daughter. Basically, we took a 40% cut in pay and assumed greater expenses at the same time. Over 18 years, that is a boatload of money, but it is worth every penny. We are now living with less and trying to make the most out of what we have.

We recently decided to improve our situation, debt wise, but everybody is different. Good advice and constructive feedback are out there, as well as preaching and talking down. Skip the bad and listen to the good.

tarheelmjfan
07-07-2006, 04:35 PM
No one should have to apologize for having money.



I think everyone on here would agree with that. Noone should feel the need to share their personal finances with others either.

I have a very close relative that likes to remind everyone how much they have in savings, life insurance, etc., & let everyone within earshot know how much they're leaving their children. We also know every item they've bought for anyone else, & anything they've done for them. They also like to talk about the numerous places they plan to visit. It's kind of sad, because they're also the one who sends people running when they enter a room. Noone wants to hear them rehash their skewed perception of their self worth. Most of the attention they get is from being talked about behind their back. :( There's no point in trying to kindly tell them what the problem may be, because they enjoy hearing about others personal finances & think everyone does. The thing they don't realize is that only those very few who do this type of thing want to hear it. The vast majority of people think they're a joke.

I also have relatives & friends with much more money than the above relative, but they never feel the need to share such info. They are a joy for everyone to associate with, & think those few obnoxious people need to get a clue.

I suppose there may be a miniscule number people who find them annoying, because they're jealous. On the most part, that's not true. The accusation of jealousy is more of a way for the offenders to justify why people aren't interested in what they have to say. I suppose it makes them feel better to think that. For me personally, I could say I'm jealous of 2 types of people, but I would be saying it tongue in cheek. I really don't like those people who have front row, center court seats at the Tarheels games. That should be me!!! :teeth: Also, those who eat like pigs & don't gain weight. It's just not fair, I tell ya! :p

kfeuer
07-07-2006, 04:49 PM
Do I feel inadequate around here? Not really. We also gave up alot of income when I started working part-time when my children came along. It's a choice we made and I'll never regret spending this time with my boys while I had the chance.

What this board HAS done is made me take a hard look at our long-term financial picture. I've gotten much more serious about our long-range plans. In fact, DH and I are now planning to buy the insurance agency I work for when the owners retire in 5 years or so (they don't want money up front, just a certain percentage of earnings over a few years). They had offered it to me before and I'd always turned them down, but I've realized it's a golden opportunity to secure our future. Barring something unforeseen, we'll be able to increase our income AND save alot of money for retirement.

Anyway, just wanted to say that I use the information here as inspiration. In fact, it was a thread on this board about how small business owners often make quite good money that got me thinking about the whole purchase deal!

Lorikr65
07-07-2006, 04:54 PM
I think some people may have missed my point. I don't feel inadequate - I worked full-time for 16 years, I stay at home now but do part-time transcription for a relative who is a doctor, so I do make a paycheck. I don't need college funds for my children because luckily my father planned for that for all of his grandchildren.

Like 1 post said, I sometimes question whether people elaborate a bit to make others feel inadequate. I have a friend who has a $3 million trust fund and the last thing she would talk about is money and the last thing from her mind is making others feel below her. I just thought I would let those people who may have different choices know that not everyone has hundreds of thousands in savings and 401K and college funds. I most definately don't feel inadequate to anyone. I choose to stay at home and yes, I could get a job if I wanted but I don't want to now. I feel being home when my kids get out of school is more important. Don't know what the statistics are, but a good percentage of drug behavior, sex, etc happens after school when parents aren't home. I'd prefer to take any steps possible to make that not happen to my family.

Let me just say that I went to the market and forgot I posted this. I nearly fell off my seat when I saw all the views on this thread!!

CarolA
07-07-2006, 04:54 PM
I didn't read all of this, but personally I am pretty sure that at least some of the posters on this board aren't telling ONLY the truth. I think some folks are telling us what they WANT the truth to be. I always get a little curious when folks post in a "holier then thou" tone that they NEVER had debt, they MAX out all their 401K, they PAID CASH for thier house and so on..... Probably SOME of them are telling the truth, but at least a few of them aren't....... (Read between the lines sometimes, read other posts they make on other parts of the DIS and it doesn't all add up....) So I wouldn't let how folks "say" they are living here get to you.....remeber you don't know them and you don't know if they are telling the truth. It kind of comes back to the old buyer beware "If it sounds too good to be true..."

(Keep in mind this is the board where someone thought that they needed to send me a PM telling me I was ruining my kids future because I spend a lot on my hair.... Since I don't have kids I found that pretty funny!!!)

MrsPete
07-07-2006, 04:55 PM
I don't think anybody is trying to make you feel inadequate. If not saving as much money as other people bothers you, then get a job.

Some people work by choice and make a ton of money.

Some people work by necessity and make a decent living.

Some people work hard and manage their money responsibly, but don't make enough money to ever get rich.

Some people choose to not work and, therefore, have less savings than those who work.

Some people hold a steady job, but live above their means and never get ahead.

Some people are lazy, don't work, and live off of the system.

Life is all about choices. Make the choices that are right for you and don't worry about what other people are doing.

(Admittedly, I can't help but remain angered by the irresponsible people who spend above their means, live off credit cards, default on payments, and cost the responsible people like me more money in the long run, but that's an entirely different topic).I have to agree. We each make our choices, and we live with the rewards (or consequences) for those choices. If YOU are satisfied with your decisions, don't worry about what other people think. If YOU are not happy, make changes.

Julia M
07-07-2006, 05:04 PM
Like 1 post said, I sometimes question whether people elaborate a bit to make others feel inadequate. I have a friend who has a $3 million trust fund and the last thing she would talk about is money and the last thing from her mind is making others feel below her. I just thought I would let those people who may have different choices know that not everyone has hundreds of thousands in savings and 401K and college funds. I most definately don't feel inadequate to anyone. I choose to stay at home and yes, I could get a job if I wanted but I don't want to now. I feel being home when my kids get out of school is more important. Don't know what the statistics are, but a good percentage of drug behavior, sex, etc happens after school when parents aren't home. I'd prefer to take any steps possible to make that not happen to my family.

Well, I take it for granted that every post may or may not be totally accurate. I also assume that some people may be "elaborating" or even bragging. Truthfully, I don't really care. I take what information benefits me and tune out the rest. I think that has to be assumed in an environment like this.


Noone should feel the need to share their personal finances with others either.

Well, I would agree with this also. However, just as a FYI, I would share much more on this "anonymous" discussion board than I would ever, ever share in person. In that way, I do find it a valuable resource.

julia

scrappinmom
07-07-2006, 05:09 PM
I usually lurk on this board...I've gotten some good ideas....read some pretty arrogant posts as well. I think we all make choices & in the end we all have to be happy with those choices. WITHIN that though I also realize that stuff happens, bad stuff, and sometimes that puts people a lot further behind than they want to be. BUT we all have the power to make it better. Sure I won't be writing a check for my dd's college tuition anytime soon. But that's ok with me, it's not my goal. It might be someone elses. I too quit my job to be a sahm. I'm a psychologist and left my private practice after 8 years. It was my choice, lots of people told me I was wrong, heck my parents STILL tell me I was wrong. But it's a choice my dh & I made together & we're happy with it. Staying home with your kiddos is not the easiest choice to make, but neither is being a work outside the home mom. You have to do what's right for you......& didn't Eleanor Roosevelt say that " No one can make you feel inferior without your permission"

:)

Bo'sMom
07-07-2006, 05:14 PM
Personally, I don't even see why questions like the ones the first poster made reference too (401K savings, etc.) are even asked. Whose business is it really? I think the ones who ask sound more like braggarts than anything else.

LoriZH
07-07-2006, 05:18 PM
I don't think anybody is trying to make you feel inadequate. If not saving as much money as other people bothers you, then get a job.

Some people work by choice and make a ton of money.

Some people work by necessity and make a decent living.

Some people work hard and manage their money responsibly, but don't make enough money to ever get rich.

Some people choose to not work and, therefore, have less savings than those who work.

Some people hold a steady job, but live above their means and never get ahead.

Some people are lazy, don't work, and live off of the system.

Life is all about choices. Make the choices that are right for you and don't worry about what other people are doing.

(Admittedly, I can't help but remain angered by the irresponsible people who spend above their means, live off credit cards, default on payments, and cost the responsible people like me more money in the long run, but that's an entirely different topic).

WOW! Who the heck are you?? This is the BUDGET board, if you got it, give advice, if you don't, get advice. No need to come on here all high and mighty, because people like you aggravate me a lot more than someone feeling inadequate due to someone like you and fresh remarks. I am going to leave it alone for now because I don't want to say things I know for a fact I will feel horrible about later, hopefully like you.

To the OP, you really shouldn't feel inadequate, you've got the BEST job around! I wish I did what you did! My youngests are 9 now, so I've missed the best years of their lives (with the exception of 1 year as a SAHM) and found it so MUCH harder than getting up and going to work everyday. I would rather be home when my kids get home or not be stressed leaving the office to take a sick child home from school or to a dr's appointment. You're doing the right thing, the poster above here that I quoted (didn't bother to even check out their name they aggravated me so much) didn't get your post, they just pounced very irresponsibly, shame on them.

Bo'sMom
07-07-2006, 05:19 PM
WOW! Who the heck are you?? This is the BUDGET board, if you got it, give advice, if you don't, get advice. No need to come on here all high and mighty, because people like you aggravate me a lot more than someone feeling inadequate due to someone like you and fresh remarks. I am going to leave it alone for now because I don't want to say things I know for a fact I will feel horrible about later, hopefully like you.

To the OP, you really shouldn't feel inadequate, you've got the BEST job around! I wish I did what you did! My youngests are 9 now, so I've missed the best years of their lives (with the exception of 1 year as a SAHM) and found it so MUCH harder than getting up and going to work everyday. I would rather be home when my kids get home or not be stressed leaving the office to take a sick child home from school or to a dr's appointment. You're doing the right thing, the poster above here that I quoted (didn't bother to even check out their name they aggravated me so much) didn't get your post, they just pounced very irresponsibly, shame on them.

Very well said. :)

staceyfe
07-07-2006, 05:22 PM
OP: I can see where you're coming from.

I wanted to comment that while my financial situation isn't nearly as good as some others here, it ain't half bad, but I would never, ever brag about where I'm at financially. Doesn't matter that it's anonymous. That's not who I am as a person. I don't get my self-worth through bragging about my life. To be honest, I sometimes (well, often) feel guilty about our situation, both financially, health, a great marriage, a wonderful son. I feel like it's best to be humble about everything given to you in life. You never know when things could turn for the worse. To know that there are others who suffer in one way or another, be it finances or health or whatever, well, I feel blessed in my life.

That said, I do appreciate the frugal lifestyles I see posted about here on the Budget Board. It encourages me to stay away from the "I wants" and spend money on things that really matter to me and my family.

MyGoofy26
07-07-2006, 05:33 PM
IMHO, those who feel the need to constantly criticize strangers who don't make decisions they think they should just really need to get a life. Noone wants to hear it!!!

ITA - I think this is what sets apart the truly informative posts and the ones the OP is referring to. There are a lot of people here with great tips from first hand experience that other can learn from. But when the threads take a turn and start to get that "us vs them" feel to it, with too much generalization (if you aren't doing this, then you're lazy, irresponsible, etc) that takes what someone might already be sensitive about and really starts to dig at you to the point you get caught up in the moment and don't think, "OK, these people really don't know me, the answers aren't THAT easy for everyone, and we all have different situations." Using the OP as an example (hope ya don't mind!) she's clearly a little sensitive about not saving as much as she'd like to. . the answer? Work. OK, so she goes out to get a job and leaves her kids with a babysitter. Will that make her feel better? About the finances maybe, but now there's something else she'll feel terrible about. A lot of these threads tend to get very one-sided and don't take much beyond the cash into consideration, and suddenly you start analyzing yourself based on money rather than the big picture. At least while you're caught up in that thread.

mking624
07-07-2006, 05:56 PM
OP, I completely understand. I think that's why for the most part I have stayed away from the Budget Board.

If not saving as much money as other people bothers you, then get a job.

formernyer, it's comments like these that show that you really don't know a lot about the struggles of others. Not to be mean, but let me share some reality with you. We don't save as much as others because we're not able. I work full time and then some, my husband works full time, goes to school full time (about $4000 a year), and is a youth pastor. We are currently in the process to adopt a baby from Guatemala which is going to cost us about $30,000....something we don't have the luxury of paying over time like a house or a car...we have to pay that ALL within less than a year. This is on top of rent and bills. We do Disney because it's really the only luxury we allow ourselves to have...but a lot of that has been paid for by things like making cards on the side and selling them, doing online surveys, winning contests at work (only 5 employees with contests running anywhere from $50-$200 a month...so chances of winning are really high)...not to mention that this is our final trip for some time because all of our money will be going towards adoption and raising a child (I will be leaving my full time job once our child comes home). Our jobs are retail so it's not like we're rolling in the dough. I give A LOT of credit to SAHMs...but unfortunately our society tends to look down on women who give up a career to stay at home with their children. But you know what? Even if she did "get a job" like you instructed...the cost of daycare and gas are so high that everything she'd make at a typical job would go to pay for those instead of going into savings.
I'm not trying to come off as being mean, but your comment really did come off as ignorant. Sometimes there's a lot more to life than you even realize.

BethR
07-07-2006, 06:17 PM
Please let me remind everyone of something from our Guidelines for Posting:

We do not believe in censorship, and open discussions about various issues is encouraged. We ask that everyone conduct himself or herself with respect when speaking to other people. It is okay to disagree, as long as the discussion remains respectful of the feelings of others.

I am wondering if everyone IS conducting him/herself with respect to the feelings of others?

If you are not, please do so.

Naisy68
07-07-2006, 06:19 PM
Hello from a fellow SAHM. This may come off as a bit sarcastic, but I truly don't mean it to be. It's just my story and how I know we can work as hard as we want but due to unforeseen circumstances, we can't break even EVER!
We too live off of one income right now but I did work full-time from the age of 19 and I am now 37. Oh, I might add that I didn't have much of a choice as my first husband decided to end his life prematurely in 1990 which came as a total surprise. My son was 14 months old. I lost my house and my car because his death was not accidental. My whole world just kind of crashed for awhile. However, I continued to work hard and live paycheck to paycheck. In 1993, I realized I was going nowhere fast so I went to college and became a teacher working as much as I could in the meantime and paying for daycare etc. along the way. It was just my son and I for 6 long years. In 1996, I found a good man who treated both me and my son very well. We married in 1999. We paid for our entire wedding on our own by the way. Things are still really tough at times. There are some months that are too long if you know what I mean. My husband is a VERY hard working man who works 51 weeks of the year. 6 days a week. We have been to Disney 3 times so far with another trip planned this year. A lot of people criticize us for doing this but we happen to love Disney and we save for two years each time we go. I try to plan the most cost-efficient trip that I can. These trips keep me going. On the off years we plan a a different less costly kind of trip like to a national park.
Within the last year, I quit teaching and I have stayed home with our daughter. She will start school this fall and I will probably go back to work this year as well at least part-time. The funny thing is, living on one income, we actually have more money. We are saving on daycare and gas and my clothing budget has gone down to minimum since I'm not teaching. I also don't have any of the extra expenses we had when I taught. If you are a teacher, you know which ones I mean unless you live in a very good district that pays for all of your classroom materials. I taught in SD and that is not the case here. Do I miss teaching? yes! But I wouldn't trade this year with my daughter for nothing in the world!
Anyway, I guess what I am saying is, I did work full-time for a long time and anyone who doesn't think that being a SAHM isn't working is obviously doing things way differently than I am. We are working, quite hard but the pay is just not always in the form we would like it to be in. For those moms out there that have done this for a long time. I have a lot of respect for you and I am pretty sure that your kids will really appreciate you someday if they don't already. There is NOTHING that beats time spent with your kids and family. You cannot ever get these years back.
Yes, we live beyond our means when we choose to go to Disney. That money probably could be going somewhere that will benefit us more in the future. My DH and I simply feel that the memories we create my going to Disney now when our daughter is still young, is priceless. I didn't mention my son because he is now 17, on the high honor roll at school, works part-time and is very active in the performance arts. He is also a really good kid with pretty awesome values. So I guess I didn't do too bad raising him so far. (I hope we are as lucky with my daughter who will be 5 this month.) However, my son has informed us this year that he is too old to hang with us at Disney again. As much as this breaks my heart, it makes me very thankful that we were able to take him the last three times when it was still cool for him to vacation with his family. If someone offered for me to trade all those memories in exchange for all the money we would have saved by not going those three years. I would have told them in no uncertain terms to leave and not let the door hit them on the way out.
Well, I think you get the idea of what I am trying to say. Some people do work (really hard) but still can't seem to break even. They live paycheck to paycheck and have to scrounge a bit here and there and have garage sales and things like that so they can go to Disney. There is nothing wrong with us. We are good people who deserve as much respect as anyone else.
Do I read these boards and wonder if I will ever be able to afford a 10 night stay or to stay deluxe at Disney, heck yeah!! However, I really feel that if I had to choose between deluxe and a couple extra nights, I would take the extra nights and stay at good old POFQ! Someday, when the kids are on their own, my DH and I will then stay for a night or two at the Polynesian. Hey, a girl can dream right??
I hope that I did not offend anyone here. I didn't mean to. I just wanted to share our story. I don't want anyone ever saying that we don't earn or deserve our trips to Disney. We do!! I think there are a lot of us out there on the DIS. Hard working, blue collar, middle class families unite!! Ok, time for me to do some good old laundry :laundy: and think about supper for my fantastic family.
Have a Disney Day, Renee

Desnik
07-07-2006, 06:34 PM
OP, I completely understand where you are coming from! I am also a SAHM for the past 8 years.

I just wanted to say that last Sept. my family and I were in a horrific car accident and we all almost lost our lives. NO amount of savings in the bank or 401K can replace a life! I live life, enjoy it and fill our lives with what makes our family happy. My DH father died from a brain tumor at the age of 47. Always saving for a retirement he never had. I'm not saying not to save and that it's abad idea or anything. Just don't put too much importance on it. Our lives are too short.

Rozzie
07-07-2006, 06:34 PM
Great post Naisy68! :thumbsup2 I think this board can do a lot less judging and a lot more helping. I admire you and your decision very much.

Wishing you a great trip. :goodvibes

Brooknwdw
07-07-2006, 06:42 PM
I really like the budget board. As a "young" early 30's family with young kids, I have really learned alot just from lurking, reading, & rarely posting on money related threads.

I have found (from reading money related threads) that there is a huge range of income levels, etc on the Dis.

I do feel some threads get super personal but I suppose that is because it is a chat board..your idenity is protected.

I will also say that I would never discuss my specific finances in detail with anyone, and I don't ask personal questions about money, either. That includes on a chat board..I don't do that. Wouldn't if I were dirt poor or super rich.

You know that creepy uncomfortable feeling you get when people tell you how much they make, ask you how much you or your husband makes, or even how much a big ticket item costs?? I hate that.
(My FIL is famous for it.."so how much did you fork over for that so & so...".)

To answer the original question, yes, I think a very few posters intend to make others feel inadequate. But the majority of threads I have read in full have been loaded with good info.

DisneyGirl4188
07-07-2006, 07:02 PM
Naisy68, Excellent post!

I have almost posted to this thread several times and have stopped myself. I do think that there are many people here that do look down on average people with debt.

Some people give their opinions and then when someone gets upset with that information/advice/whatever, they are told that the truth hurts.

Not everyone can get a second job nor can they help where they live. If someone lives in an area where the pay stinks, they are told to look at moving elsewhere. Well, if they are already having money issues, that's not the best advice. They are told to get another, better paying job or a second job. This isn't always possible.

People are routinely chastised for having credit card debt. Of course, everyone wants to be debt free, but that isn't a reality for some. People come looking for advice and they get it, good and bad. Usually though, the discussion moves from giving advice to "well, I make a six figure income, have no debt at all, this much savings, blah, blah, blah". How is that helpful?

I think SAHMs have an tough job and they should be proud of what they do.

kinntj
07-07-2006, 07:30 PM
Like 1 post said, I sometimes question whether people elaborate a bit to make others feel inadequate.



Don't know what the statistics are, but a good percentage of drug behavior, sex, etc happens after school when parents aren't home. I'd prefer to take any steps possible to make that not happen to my family.


Let me just say that I went to the market and forgot I posted this. I nearly fell off my seat when I saw all the views on this thread!!

I'm not so sure of this, but maybe it's the way things are discussed. You have to take everything on the internet with a grain of salt.

I agree with this and this is why I'm a SAHM. Even when I start to work in a few years, I plan to work part time when the children are in classes. I plan on being there when they come home from school.

Amazing what attention this kind of thread makes and it's been discussed before.

jmpellet
07-07-2006, 07:51 PM
I know this board is anonymous but you know the old saying "those that have money rarely talk about it." It's the one who talk that are likely over-inflating their worth and like to hear themselves talk...

LSUDis
07-07-2006, 08:14 PM
Thank you, Moderator, for taking a reasonable approach to this thread instead of locking it.

I work on this philosophy: Think of all of the rich people who are dead...wouldn't they give EVERYTHING they ever earned to have just ONE of your days? or would you sell one of your legs for a million dollars? Then, you ARE rich; you are worth a million dollars. Envy/worry just wastes the time that we have. We never know what is going on in other people's lives--just go read the short poem "Richard Cory" by E.A. Robinson.

Besides, most people work during their retirement anyway because they have more to give, they get bored, they just want to. My parents have both retired with good retirements, continual health coverage, kids grown, no morgage and, guess what? They are BOTH back working--my mother--fulltime!

Think of Sam Walton and his old, beat-up truck. It's like that old saying, "If you have to tell someone that you are in charge, then, guess what, you're not."

SAHM (by the way, I thought that this was someone who worked at the Haunted Mansion :crazy: ) your kids are young only once--this is time that you NEVER get back. In my opinion, if you can stay home and want to, find a way to do it (and I'm NOT a SAHM; I went back to work when my DD was 4 weeks old, so I know all about missing things).

These boards are all about helping--not condemning, judging, or bragging. You can give advice w/o sharing your net worth, etc.

Okay, I'm done...anybody have any chocolate?

Shanan
07-07-2006, 08:15 PM
I do read the budget board almost daily - not so much the WDW boards. I have learned interesting things and it has helped make me more goal oriented then I used to be. Do I balance my checkbook out every month to the penny? No, although I got lots of advice that I should do that. Am I now trying to contribute more to 401K & IRA account? Yes. Are there some months that it is very "tight" for us? Yes. Everybody has different circumstances. DH works where he does not receive any benefits at all but he loves his job. I work in large corporation so that we can have insurance and other benefits while I sign up for 401K. My car is paid for & DH has a truck payment. If DH worked where he received benefits, especially health insurance that we could get, would I quit my job? YES! However, we do not have kids. Why? Because I cannot have kids & DH does not want to adopt at this late day. Would I give up some of my financial breathing room to have kids? Yes. As I said before, everybody has different circumstances in their life. I think it is great that you are a SAHM. Continue to read the boards as help for goals & budgeting. When someone posts something that you might think is judgmental or negative, the poster might have something going on in his/her life that you just don't know about.

StephMK
07-07-2006, 08:56 PM
I choose not to think someone would intentionally make anyone else feel inadequate on here but there are definitely threads where it's harder to read. Sometimes I read & *gulp* when I compare ourselves to others but that's my issue & some guilt about being home. We are definitely behind in savings but every time I think I should bite the bullet & start making more $, I can't find a job that makes me want to change our lives yet. We were not great money managers in the past and now have made some lifestyle choices that put us behind our age group in some ways. Other than wishing we had been better w/our spending, I wouldn't change the family choices we've made so I guess that's our tradeoff. I'm ultimately fine w/it but yeah, I do feel that twinge when I read some of the financial threads.

Gillian
07-07-2006, 09:22 PM
It's nice to know there are some "regular" people here on the budget board! Ones who owe some money, don't have huge retirement plans, and who might not be able to fund an Ivy League education for all (or any) of their children!

I believe most of us are working to improve our financial situations, or we wouldn't be reading the Budget Board. But not everyone is perfect, and I think that it's important to balance your life/work/savings accounts. :)

formernyer
07-07-2006, 11:54 PM
I don't think anybody is trying to make you feel inadequate. If not saving as much money as other people bothers you, then get a job.

Some people work by choice and make a ton of money.

Some people work by necessity and make a decent living.

Some people work hard and manage their money responsibly, but don't make enough money to ever get rich.

Some people choose to not work and, therefore, have less savings than those who work.

Some people hold a steady job, but live above their means and never get ahead.

Some people are lazy, don't work, and live off of the system.

Life is all about choices. Make the choices that are right for you and don't worry about what other people are doing.

(Admittedly, I can't help but remain angered by the irresponsible people who spend above their means, live off credit cards, default on payments, and cost the responsible people like me more money in the long run, but that's an entirely different topic).

To those of you who felt the need to attack my post and considered it offensive, ignorant, etc., I'll follow it up with some further comments.

My main point is that life is about choices. Nobody comes to these boards to brag about being rich, but some people most certainly have more money than others. Some people will argue that for whatever reason they can't make a lot of money (normally the reason is that they couldn't afford college or something). Well it doesn't take a college education in order to be successful...all it takes is ambition. To some people, success is measured by financial worth. If this is your way of thinking, then find a way to make it work for you. Other people measure success by personal happiness, being with their family more often, etc. If that's your goal, then make it work. Only you have the ability to CHOOSE your outcome in life and there's no sense in feeling bad, inadequate, or jealous because other people have more than you. There's always going to be somebody out there who is in a better position, but what's the sense in dwelling on that?

Here's my personal story, for those of you who seem to think that I was looking down on SAHMs:

I graduated college at 22 and accepted a great job which I held for 11 years. I lived on Long Island all of my life, but the weather was too cold, the cost of living was too high, and I wanted to raise my kids in a different environment. I transferred to TN (working the same job), which is a fairly low-income state and I was making six figures...by TN standards, that is a LOT of money. My dream from the time I was a child was to be a SAHM, but my (now-ex) husband was making a LOT less money than I did, so it made sense for him to be the one to stay home with the kids. We could have had more money if we kept the kids in daycare and he continued to work, but we believed it would be better for the kids to attend a part-time preschool program and have a full-time parent at home.

When my kids were 6 and 7 I made a HUGE decision and quit my job in order to stay home with the kids full-time (my ex returned to work and made less than 1/2 the amount I was making at my job). For me, the increased time with my children was more important than the money I could have been earning if I stayed with my job.

I sold on eBay as a hobby for many years, but once I got divorced 2.5 years ago I needed to make "real" money to pay the bills. I didn't want to return to work and I chose to take nothing more than minimal child support payments from my ex. The answer for me was to turn my eBay hobby into a real job. Anyone can do this...it's not rocket science, doesn't require a college degree, and can be done from home. I work only part-time hours and I clear much a higher hourly rate than what I was making when I worked my real job; however, the overall dollar amount that I make in a year is lower than what I used to make. For me, this was the most perfect and logical choice and I don't feel "inadequate" for choosing family over money. If, on the other hand, playing "keep up with the Joneses" was important to me, I would return to the workplace, increase my eBay hours, or find another means to increase my salary.

I don't look down on people who choose to work full-time and put their kids in daycare. I don't look down on SAHMs who sacrifice earnings for time with their families. I don't look down on people who work low-income jobs, but live responsibly and are happy with their lifestyles. I don't envy people who make more money than I do. I'm only concerned with what works for me and for my family. What's right for me isn't right for everybody else.

I'm sorry if many of you think my original post seemed harsh, but it wasn't meant to make people feel bad (other than the deadbeats who I commented about at the very end). My only point was that the OP (and anybody else out there who agrees with the OP) shouldn't feel bad just because other people have more money than they do. If being a SAHM and working part-time is the best option for your family, then by all means that is what you should be doing; however, if you feel inadequate for not making enough money, then perhaps it isn't necessarily the choice that you really want.

Once again, my point is that everybody makes different choices in life and it's silly to compare yourself to other people and feel inadequate. One man may choose to put $30,000 into savings, another may spend $30,000 to adopt a child, and a third man might blow the entire $30,000 on vacations, electronics, and booze. Everyone has different priorities. If you are happy with your choices, then don't feel inadequate just because somebody else made different choices. If you are unhappy with your choices, then take steps to change them.

Goobergal99
07-07-2006, 11:58 PM
To those of you who felt the need to attack my post and considered it offensive, ignorant, etc., I'll follow it up with some further comments.

My main point is that life is about choices. Nobody comes to these boards to brag about being rich, but some people most certainly have more money than others. Some people will argue that for whatever reason they can't make a lot of money (normally the reason is that they couldn't afford college or something). Well it doesn't take a college education in order to be successful...all it takes is ambition. To some people, success is measured by financial worth. If this is your way of thinking, then find a way to make it work for you. Other people measure success by personal happiness, being with their family more often, etc. If that's your goal, then make it work. Only you have the ability to CHOOSE your outcome in life and there's no sense in feeling bad, inadequate, or jealous because other people have more than you. There's always going to be somebody out there who is in a better position, but what's the sense in dwelling on that?

Here's my personal story, for those of you who seem to think that I was looking down on SAHMs:

I graduated college at 22 and accepted a great job which I held for 11 years. I lived on Long Island all of my life, but the weather was too cold, the cost of living was too high, and I wanted to raise my kids in a different environment. I transferred to TN (working the same job), which is a fairly low-income state and I was making six figures...by TN standards, that is a LOT of money. My dream from the time I was a child was to be a SAHM, but my (now-ex) husband was making a LOT less money than I did, so it made sense for him to be the one to stay home with the kids. We could have had more money if we kept the kids in daycare and he continued to work, but we believed it would be better for the kids to attend a part-time preschool program and have a full-time parent at home.

When my kids were 6 and 7 I made a HUGE decision and quit my job in order to stay home with the kids full-time (my ex returned to work and made less than 1/2 the amount I was making at my job). For me, the increased time with my children was more important than the money I could have been earning if I stayed with my job.

I sold on eBay as a hobby for many years, but once I got divorced 2.5 years ago I needed to make "real" money to pay the bills. I didn't want to return to work and I chose to take nothing more than minimal child support payments from my ex. The answer for me was to turn my eBay hobby into a real job. Anyone can do this...it's not rocket science, doesn't require a college degree, and can be done from home. I work only part-time hours and I clear much a higher hourly rate than what I was making when I worked my real job; however, the overall dollar amount that I make in a year is lower than what I used to make. For me, this was the most perfect and logical choice and I don't feel "inadequate" for choosing family over money. If, on the other hand, playing "keep up with the Joneses" was important to me, I would return to the workplace, increase my eBay hours, or find another means to increase my salary.

I don't look down on people who choose to work full-time and put their kids in daycare. I don't look down on SAHMs who sacrifice earnings for time with their families. I don't look down on people who work low-income jobs, but live responsibly and are happy with their lifestyles. I don't envy people who make more money than I do. I'm only concerned with what works for me and for my family. What's right for me isn't right for everybody else.

I'm sorry if many of you think my original post seemed harsh, but it wasn't meant to make people feel bad (other than the deadbeats who I commented about at the very end). My only point was that the OP (and anybody else out there who agrees with the OP) shouldn't feel bad just because other people have more money than they do. If being a SAHM and working part-time is the best option for your family, then by all means that is what you should be doing; however, if you feels inadequate for not making enough money, then perhaps it isn't necessarily the choice that you really want.

Once again, my point is that everybody makes different choices in life and it's silly to compare yourself to other people and feel inadequate. One man may choose to put $30,000 into savings, another may spend $30,000 to adopt a child, and a third man might blow the entire $30,000 on vacations, electronics, and booze. Everyone has different priorities. If you are happy with your choices, then don't feel inadequate just because somebody else made different choices. If you are unhappy with your choices, then take steps to change them.


I didn't think you had anything to apologize for.... Personally I don't care how ppl choose to spend there money nor how much they have. I also don't mond sharing how much I have and if ppl are offended by that then I only assume they have their own insecurities ;)

tarheelmjfan
07-08-2006, 04:07 AM
Personally I don't care how ppl choose to spend there money nor how much they have. I also don't mond sharing how much I have and if ppl are offended by that then I only assume they have their own insecurities ;)


I'm beginning to think I don't understand the human psyche at all. I truly don't care about anyone else's financial situation in the least. Let me phrase that..... I don't care to know how much money anyone has. It does break my heart to see people down on their luck & kids going without the things that most kids take for granted. So I care emotionally for those less fortunate, but I don't care in a nosy way. I always felt that those who feel the need to share such personal info. were the ones with the insecurities. It's like they're overcompensating for something. It could be that they were poor when they were growing up, or they were unpopular in school & felt inadequate, or the people closest to them don't truly care about them, etc. They need something to make them feel better about themselves. I've never seen sharing personal info. with others, esp. strangers, as being a sign that one is secure with themselves. In fact, I've seen it as the exact opposite. It's as if this is their way of trying to fit in. Perhaps, I feel that way, because all the people I know personally who like to share everything with the world are all overcompensating for reasons that I am aware of.

PrincessKitty1
07-08-2006, 06:40 AM
Lorikr,

I stopped reading a lot of threads on this board b/c I was reading them as people bragging about what they have and how smart they are. I am an attorney, but I do not work in private practice, so I am not rolling in money. My husband was recently laid off. I wish we had more money to invest right now, but we don't. Thank God for my 401(k) and the fact that we have no kids (yet). Now, I kind of skip over most threads where people are asking about financial advice. It's better for my blood pressure.

Ditto. I don't read the threads anymore. I think dot.com yuppies, physicians, etc. should be embarrassed to come to budget boards to brag about their savings, and the condescension seems quite intentional to me. :sunny:

danjoealexis3006
07-08-2006, 07:13 AM
I look at it this way...
1. My husband has work (many don't here in MI)
2. We can make our bills by not living outside our means allowing us to save and enjoy a trip to Disney.
3. We have food and a warm place to live.
4. Things could be much worse!

We are very fortunate because I know there are many around us who aren't so lucky. I consider myself lucky to stay home with my kids because many moms HAVE to work and its tough for them. Sure, we all want bigger savings accounts and longer trips to Disney. This is what makes us human. I to am a SAHM and I know we would be much futher ahead if I worked but you cann't put a price on the time spent with your children. Just do the best you can for YOUR family and in the end your children will thank you for the sacrifice you made with all those kisses, hugs, and knowing your there for them. Enjoy your family and all your memories at Disney with them. :thumbsup2

summerrluvv
07-08-2006, 07:40 AM
Ditto. I don't read the threads anymore. I think dot.com yuppies, physicians, etc. should be embarrassed to come to budget boards to brag about their savings, and the condescension seems quite intentional to me. :sunny:

::yes:: ITA. I skip those threads now ;) It reminds me of grade school recess when the kids used to brag that their toys were better :lmao:

Lorikr65
07-08-2006, 07:45 AM
My only point was that the OP (and anybody else out there who agrees with the OP) shouldn't feel bad just because other people have more money than they do.

My point is missed again!! I'm not saying anyone feels inadequate, I'm saying some people try to make others feel that way. I DO NOT FEEL INADEQUATE OR QUESTION MY CHOICES. How does anyone know how much money my family makes/inherited/owes/spends, etc. I don't put a survey up and asked "so, how much have you inherited/made/owe/spend so far?" You don't know that I didn't decide to stay at home because I won the lottery. I could have $1 million invested somewhere (I don't :rotfl: )! My point is that unfortunately some people, whether they are lying or telling the truth, like to come to these boards and brag about what they have (whether it's real or imaged) and in the process I'm sure there are people who read it and say "am I the only one who will be working in my retirement". I opened this thread so the people working in their retirement will know they are not alone. Will I be working in my retirement? I'm not sure. As we all saw in the 90's, investments aren't as secure as we'd like to think - everyone saw their investments go down. So some people who didn't think they would be working in their retirement are.

As we saw from a few posts, things can happen to you through no fault of your own (death, accidents). Be careful who you look down on because someday you may become them.

mking624
07-08-2006, 08:18 AM
I think some people need to tread very carefully here by not assuming someone is insecure or unhappy with choices because of how they feel or could feel about something. Because honestly, the same thing could be said about those who are sharing financial information...that they are insecure and need to prove themselves. Now I don't know any of you personally so I can't say where everyone is coming from...that's why it's better not to assume. I really think that's crossing into unnecessary territory.

pearlieq
07-08-2006, 08:19 AM
Ditto. I don't read the threads anymore. I think dot.com yuppies, physicians, etc. should be embarrassed to come to budget boards to brag about their savings, and the condescension seems quite intentional to me. :sunny:

This bothers me. Why so hostile? Why the need for name-calling? (I seriously don't think you mean "dot.com yuppies in any kind of affectionate sense...). Why are these people of any less value than anyone else? Why make it "us vs. them"

I don't think it's fair to label talking about financial issues as "bragging". Some people are comfortable talking about money, and some people aren't. I don't think saying, "I have X in savings" is bragging. That's sharing information and it's not different than saying "I have green eyes". Saying "I have X in savings and that makes me better than you" would be bragging, but I haven't seen that. If you're not comfortable discussing finances, move on to another thread. But no need to take potshots at people who are.

I'm constantly amazed how much vitrol is spewed at people who are doing well financially. Ever since the great "holier that thou" debacle I've felt less and less welcome here. I find I'm visiting less and participating less, because it's just not enjoyable anymore and I don't feel like getting attacked. It's really a shame, because this used to be such a nice place to be...

BethR
07-08-2006, 08:34 AM
Ever since the great "holier that thou" debacle I've felt less and less welcome here. I find I'm visiting less and participating less, because it's just not enjoyable anymore and I don't feel like getting attacked. It's really a shame, because this used to be such a nice place to be...

Now this make ME sad, since I have felt that ever since the "holier than thou debacle," people have been more thoughtful about how they word comments, questions, and information so as not to make anyone feel unwelcome here.

Truly, I don't know that I read posts on this board where people purposely post to make others feel small or themselves feel big. I think that some threads are posted to

1. Provide information.
2. Gain information.

I don't think that anyone posts in order to look down their noses at anyone.

I will say that in the past whenever people have posted about financial problems, some people would post things less than kindly about how the OP could, can, should, make things better in their lives. In these same threads, But in recent months, I think that people have really been thoughtful about thinking of others feelings before posting.

We do try very hard to keep things friendly here and I am sorry that some of you feel that it is not that way on the Budget Board.

Sounds like these continue to be areas we need to work on.

BethR
07-08-2006, 08:44 AM
I'm not saying anyone feels inadequate, I'm saying some people try to make others feel that way.

Lori I have to respectfully disagree with you. Believe me, I would NEVER consider myself in amoung the "Haves" on this board, but truthfully, I do not feel that anyone posts to this board purposely to make others feel inadequate. I am sorry that you feel this way. :(

tinker&belle
07-08-2006, 08:44 AM
Ditto. I don't read the threads anymore. I think dot.com yuppies, physicians, etc. should be embarrassed to come to budget boards to brag about their savings, and the condescension seems quite intentional to me. :sunny:

This doesn't really seem fair. Why would someone who has a good job/financial security not be interested in budgeting? Usually, they are budgeters and that is how they got that way. For the record, my husband and I are starting out and are not in above said group, but I like to hear ideas from those who are financially secure. I grew up in a household with a single mother. I had to use my part time job money in high school to cover necessities, sometimes even groceries and to sometimes pay for my own health insurance if mom couldn't swing it at the time. I never had a solid financial role model to look to, so I enjoy listening to others success so that I may someday be as such.

Va-bear
07-08-2006, 09:06 AM
I think Formernyer makes a good point about choices.....it is a choice you made.

I think the big point is to REALY REALLY beleive in what you do and then other cant "make" you feel anything....

Dont you think people try to make full-time working moms feel bad? They do, trust me.....but it is the fully right thing for me (I actually believe staying at home sends a poor message to our kids; especially our daughters....which I say to point out we all have strong beliefs and thats FINE!)

So beleive in what you do and you'll be fine!! And as for others TRYING to make someone feel inadequate - you can't pay attention to that - mean spirits are eveywhere.

Lorikr65
07-08-2006, 09:08 AM
Why are these people of any less value than anyone else? Why make it "us vs. them"

That is precisely the problem - why is there an "us" and a "them", and where does the line exist. Could there also be an education line and a kindness line?? I personally think that people who are kind to others and show emphathy, etc are making a larger contribution in society than those that pull in a larger paycheck.

I've always worked in the medical field. I don't like to pigeon hole people, but I've seen a large percentage of doctors who have a "better than you" attitude. I've also seen a few who were kind and compassionate. Unfortunately the kind and compassionate get stepped on by the "better than you".

I do not have any financial issues and I am secure where I am in life. I try to be kind to others and share when I can. I guess I posted because when people gauge their value in life by how much they make/have than it knocks down or belittles all the other traits we have as human beings. I'm not saying anyone on this board is like this, but I worked for a doctor who grew up poor. Now he owns his practice and feels since he makes a good living he is entitled to anything he wants, whether he has to walk over someone else to get it, and he looks down on the exact people that he grew up with. It's just a shame. You'd think he would have compassion for those people since he was once there.

I'm sorry I stirred the pot a bit :stir: , but I'm sure it felt good for some people to get things off their chest, and maybe some of these posts (I can think of 2 in particular) got others to think twice.

DawnM
07-08-2006, 09:48 AM
I have been both.....a working mom and a SAHM (for 18 months now). There were always people on both sides to try to make others feel bad. Or we take it bad because we are vulnerable at that point (I think that has happened to me. As soon as I feel I need to "justify" my decision I know I have crossed the line within myself of starting to feel vulnerable!)

I am not sure I agree about the sending a bad message BUT I am a female and my Mom was a SAHM. My parents BOTH still firmly instilled in me that it was expected for me to finish college and have a career of some sort. My dad was very firm about making sure that I understood that I needed to have a way to support myself and/or my family because "you just never know what life holds." We knew women who had such a difficult time when their husbands died, got seriously ill or couldn't work anymore due to an accident or whatever.

Dawn

I think Formernyer makes a good point about choices.....it is a choice you made.

I think the big point is to REALY REALLY beleive in what you do and then other cant "make" you feel anything....

Dont you think people try to make full-time working moms feel bad? They do, trust me.....but it is the fully right thing for me (I actually believe staying at home sends a poor message to our kids; especially our daughters....which I say to point out we all have strong beliefs and thats FINE!)

So beleive in what you do and you'll be fine!! And as for others TRYING to make someone feel inadequate - you can't pay attention to that - mean spirits are eveywhere.

disneynutt1225
07-08-2006, 09:50 AM
(Admittedly, I can't help but remain angered by the irresponsible people who spend above their means, live off credit cards, default on payments, and cost the responsible people like me more money in the long run, but that's an entirely different topic).

Well, I certainly hope you're never in a situation where you HAVE to live above your means, default on payments, and "cost responsble people" more money in the long run. Sometimes it's hard to make ends meet when you're rent is too high, you've lost your job and in order to eat you have to charge it on a credit card. Then, you can't afford to pay the credit card in full so you GASP carry a balance.

Lori, I know exactly what you mean. I have stopped reading a majority of the threads when they get a little too preachy for my own comfort.

DawnM
07-08-2006, 09:54 AM
I am married to an accountant.....need I say more????

My Texan friend says accountants' wallets are "tighter than a bulls' *ss durin' fly season!"

I thought that was pretty well said!

I am staying at home now. We could not really have done that when we lived in CA.

We are living (literally) on half of what we used to make. DH and I have always made similar salaries. He is the one who pushed me to stay at home.

We have had to make huge sacrifices for me to stay home. We are ok with that. We live on a budget now! No Starbucks and not much eating out anymore. No retail shopping and no new toys (ie: electronic gagets).

Some people may look at us as inadequate. I look at it as smart living!

Dawn

perdidobay
07-08-2006, 10:12 AM
I learn something from most every post I read on the Budget board... nothing makes me feel inadequate...... I know some people have more than me... I know some people have less than me..... that's life... it's all relative.

Soak up the Sun

My friend the communist
Holds meetings in his RV
I can't afford his gas
So I'm stuck here watching tv
I don't have digital
I don't have diddly squat

It's not having what you want
It's wanting what you've got

I'm gonna soak up the sun
I'm gonna tell everyone
To lighten up (I'm gonna tell 'em that)
I've got no one to blame
For every time I feel lame
I'm looking up
I'm gonna soak up the sun
I'm gonna soak up the sun

I've got a crummy job
It don't pay near enough
To buy the things it takes
To win me some of your love
Every time I turn around
I'm looking up, you're looking down
Maybe something's wrong with you
That makes you act the way you do
Maybe I am crazy to


I'm gonna soak up the sun
I'm gonna tell everyone
To lighten up (I'm gonna tell 'em that)
I've got no one to blame
For every time I feel lame
I'm looking up

I'm gonna soak up the sun
While it's still free
I'm gonna soak up the sun
Before it goes out on me

Don't have no master suite
But I'm still the king of me
You have a fancy ride, but baby
I'm the one who has the key
Every time I turn around
I'm looking up, you're looking down
Maybe something's wrong with you
That makes you act the way you do
Maybe I am crazy too

I'm gonna soak up the sun
I'm gonna tell everyone
To lighten up (I'm gonna tell 'em that)
I've got no one to blame
For every time I feel lame
I'm looking up

I'm gonna soak up the sun
I'm gonna tell everyone
To lighten up (I'm gonna tell 'em that)
I've got no one to blame
For every time I feel lame
I'm looking up

I'm gonna soak up the sun
Got my 45 on
So I can rock on

BethR
07-08-2006, 10:42 AM
I'm gonna soak up the sun
I'm gonna tell everyone
To lighten up (I'm gonna tell 'em that)
I've got no one to blame
For every time I feel lame
I'm looking up

:sunny: Sounds like a good philosophy for all of us! :sunny:

Va-bear
07-08-2006, 11:02 AM
I am not sure I agree about the sending a bad message BUT I am a female and my Mom was a SAHM. My parents BOTH still firmly instilled in me that it was expected for me to finish college and have a career of some sort. My dad was very firm about making sure that I understood that I needed to have a way to support myself and/or my family because "you just never know what life holds." We knew women who had such a difficult time when their husbands died, got seriously ill or couldn't work anymore due to an accident or whatever.
Dawn
I think what your parents instilled in you follows a bit of my thinking. Women need to be able to support themselves FULLY. Besides the situations you mentioned there's the caes like my neighbor - wonderful churchgoing family, 3 sweet kids, "great" dad (really, he seemed SO attentive and sweet) - then he just left one day. No one expects it. Besides we all are PEOPLE and shouldn't HAVE to rely on others (that we do is loving and great...but we need to all be take care of ourselves.) My thoughts and thanks for yours! :)

tarheelmjfan
07-08-2006, 11:04 AM
Now this make ME sad, since I have felt that ever since the "holier than thou debacle," people have been more thoughtful about how they word comments, questions, and information so as not to make anyone feel unwelcome here.



ITA that the tone on this board has changed tremendously in the last few months. Those that I used to completely ignore have been much more polite & helpful, & I've noticed & appreciated it. Of course, there's a very few that IMHO still need some work. ;)

I choose to ignore the threads asking for personal info, because I'm not into sharing that type of info with anyone but my DH. Definitely, not with strangers. I'm also not the least bit interested in reading threads on the finances of the population as a whole. There's nothing I can do about how others spend their money, so why waste time discussing it with those who also have no control over it. :confused3 At least, those threads are now clearly identified, & this type of info is rarely interjected into other threads now. That works for me. :teeth:

I do want to add that there is one member on here who I think may be a doctor. I have no way of knowing for certain, but that's what I've surmised by reading between the lines. This particular person is one of the most helpful, & by all appearances, humble members of this board. The BB wouldn't be the same w/o him, so I'm not ready to run off all drs. quite yet. ;)

DawnM
07-08-2006, 11:17 AM
Oh, I hope we aren't running off doctors! My dad is a doctor and is one of the most humble and gentle men you will ever meet. BTW: He did so much charity work (mostly going overseas) that we never were rich by any means. To him, service to others was creating far more weath than money ever could. He has been richly blessed, even if not financially.

Dawn

ITA that the tone on this board has changed tremendously in the last few months. Those that I used to completely ignore have been much more polite & helpful, & I've noticed & appreciated it. Of course, there's a very few that IMHO still need some work. ;)

I choose to ignore the threads asking for personal info, because I'm not into sharing that type of info with anyone but my DH. Definitely, not with strangers. I'm also not the least bit interested in reading threads on the finances of the population as a whole. There's nothing I can do about how others spend their money, so why waste time discussing it with those who also have no control over it. :confused3 At least, those threads are now clearly identified, & this type of info is rarely interjected into other threads now. That works for me. :teeth:

I do want to add that there is one member on here who I think may be a doctor. I have no way of knowing for certain, but that's what I've surmised by reading between the lines. This particular person is one of the most helpful, & by all appearances, humble members of this board. The BB wouldn't be the same w/o him, so I'm not ready to run off all drs. quite yet. ;)

Gillian
07-08-2006, 11:23 AM
Dont you think people try to make full-time working moms feel bad? They do, trust me.....but it is the fully right thing for me (I actually believe staying at home sends a poor message to our kids; especially our daughters....which I say to point out we all have strong beliefs and thats FINE!)

So believe in what you do and you'll be fine!! And as for others TRYING to make someone feel inadequate - you can't pay attention to that - mean spirits are eveywhere.It's sad but true that people look down on both working moms AND stay at home moms! Of course they are different people, but there is always someone ready to criticize our choices.

It's hard to be confident sometimes, especially when you've made a difficult choice. Let's all try to support each other, in whatever we choose.

Gillian
07-08-2006, 11:26 AM
I've had to see a lot of doctors lately, and they're just like everyone else. Some good, some bad, some you want to kick, and some you want to hug. :)

BethR
07-08-2006, 11:41 AM
I do want to add that there is one member on here who I think may be a doctor. I have no way of knowing for certain, but that's what I've surmised by reading between the lines. This particular person is one of the most helpful, & by all appearances, humble members of this board. The BB wouldn't be the same w/o him, so I'm not ready to run off all drs. quite yet. ;)

He is. He does not hide it. And I totally agree! ;)

Lorikr65
07-08-2006, 12:37 PM
Let me clarify that I am definately not bashing doctors. Like someone else said, they are like everyone else, some good, some bad, etc. My personal experience has been in the medical field so that's why I used that as an example. Believe me, I have worked for doctors that I love and would choose as my own doctor if I hadn't worked with them. The orthodontist my daughter goes to has done tons for the community. His staff would say he's a perfectionist and may get a bit impatient at times, but that is what makes him good at what he does.

I recently worked for an Oncologist and he was great! In his early 30's. I told him to never lose his sense of humor or be like other docs (he knew who in the office I meant!). I told him he was a pleasure to work with, could be a bit anal! He agreed but then said that in his line of work he has to be - which is totally true.

I only brought up the doctor thing because of the story I was trying to tell. You find those kind of people in every profession, probably even SAHMs!!

dvcgirl
07-08-2006, 01:08 PM
This bothers me. Why so hostile? Why the need for name-calling? (I seriously don't think you mean "dot.com yuppies in any kind of affectionate sense...). Why are these people of any less value than anyone else? Why make it "us vs. them"

I don't think it's fair to label talking about financial issues as "bragging". Some people are comfortable talking about money, and some people aren't. I don't think saying, "I have X in savings" is bragging. That's sharing information and it's not different than saying "I have green eyes". Saying "I have X in savings and that makes me better than you" would be bragging, but I haven't seen that. If you're not comfortable discussing finances, move on to another thread. But no need to take potshots at people who are.

I'm constantly amazed how much vitrol is spewed at people who are doing well financially. Ever since the great "holier that thou" debacle I've felt less and less welcome here. I find I'm visiting less and participating less, because it's just not enjoyable anymore and I don't feel like getting attacked. It's really a shame, because this used to be such a nice place to be...

I agree, the post you referred wasn't fair. Implying that physicians and anyone who makes a decent income and is a saver shouldn't talk about their financial lives. Some of us are personal finance junkies around here. We read about it a whole lot, discuss different investment options, different savings strategies....ways to trim our budgets. Where's the harm in that? It always amazes me that people can talk about the most intimate areas of their lives openly with friends, family....even on the internet. But Money is the last taboo topic.

I was raised in a family where finances was an open book.....there were no secrets. My parents openly discussed finances with all of us. And we operate like that to this day. I have no idea why the OP would feel inadequate with respect to her own situation because she stays home with the kids and has consequently saved less than she'd like for retirement. Or maybe she's saved as much as she can but it isn't what others have. So what? Why on earth would it bother you if there are some around here who are on track with respect to retirement savings? We all make conscious choices which affect our lives. As long as you are happy, why the big fuss?

NCRedding
07-08-2006, 01:27 PM
The OP has said repeatedly that she doesn't feel inadequate. Her question was (to paraphrase): Do you feel there are some posters here who post things to make others feel inadequate?

IMHO, yes, there are posters here who post in an attempt to make others feel inadequate. I do feel it has gotten some better since the "holier than thou" comments.

btass
07-08-2006, 01:30 PM
Only you can make yourself feel inadequate.

Lorikr65
07-08-2006, 01:38 PM
I have no idea why the OP would feel inadequate with respect to her own situation because she stays home with the kids and has consequently saved less than she'd like for retirement. Or maybe she's saved as much as she can but it isn't what others have. So what? Why on earth would it bother you if there are some around here who are on track with respect to retirement savings? We all make conscious choices which affect our lives. As long as you are happy, why the big fuss?

Please re-read my posts - once again, I DO NOT FEEL INADEQUATE!! That's not the point. I may have just what I need for retirement, being a SAHM has nothing to do with it. I worked for a while, left my job to be at home with my children for a few years and when they both were in school full time (this year), I went back to work part time. I recently quit my job to be with them during the summer and may or may not return to work in September. Fortunately for me my husband has a job where he can work as much overtime as he wants and it was easy for him to make up for my salary.

Giving financial advice is one thing, and it's great, but bragging and, in the process, making others feel below you is another. It's like the person that has to make others feel bad in order to make themselves feel better. Believe me, this is not everyone and probably only a small percentage but I see it in the posts of people who are looking for financial advice and they get beaten up!

I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Just because someone is on welfare doesn't mean they are just living off the system. Perhaps they were happily married with 3 kids, are pregnant for a 4th time, husband up and leaves paying no child support. Maybe welfare is needed and is a bridge to the next phase in their life (which is what I believe it was intended to be when put in place).

Fortuantely most got my point.

gina2000
07-08-2006, 02:04 PM
I'm pretty immune to "holier art thou" posts. For the most part, people have different opportunities, different blessings and different priorities. And people have different life experiences which mold how they choose to live their lives. No one way is right. And no one way will produce universal happiness or guarantee an easy life and/or retirement.

When people speak of their priorities and how they've achieved them, I often stop and wonder if I would give up X in order to be in their position. Most times the answer is absolutely not. Probably all the time because I can't think of one instance where I've regretted the things I've done.

I choose wisely according to what I have, what I want and where I want to be in the future. Those choices may fall short of future goal attainment but I also may be hit by a car tomorrow. It's a balance between living and existing.

emh1129
07-08-2006, 02:15 PM
More power to all of you SAHM's! In the long run, that will be worth far more than any financial guru's advice you'll ever see on this board.

:thumbsup2

dvcgirl
07-08-2006, 02:23 PM
Please re-read my posts - once again, I DO NOT FEEL INADEQUATE!! That's not the point. I may have just what I need for retirement, being a SAHM has nothing to do with it. I worked for a while, left my job to be at home with my children for a few years and when they both were in school full time (this year), I went back to work part time. I recently quit my job to be with them during the summer and may or may not return to work in September. Fortunately for me my husband has a job where he can work as much overtime as he wants and it was easy for him to make up for my salary.

Giving financial advice is one thing, and it's great, but bragging and, in the process, making others feel below you is another. It's like the person that has to make others feel bad in order to make themselves feel better. Believe me, this is not everyone and probably only a small percentage but I see it in the posts of people who are looking for financial advice and they get beaten up!

I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Just because someone is on welfare doesn't mean they are just living off the system. Perhaps they were happily married with 3 kids, are pregnant for a 4th time, husband up and leaves paying no child support. Maybe welfare is needed and is a bridge to the next phase in their life (which is what I believe it was intended to be when put in place).

Fortuantely most got my point.

Okay, I hear ya. I guess I just don't see how sharing that ones financial ducks are in a row when others are not is designed to make "the others" feel badly. There are an awful lot of discussions on here that refer to state of our financial situation as a collective nation. Lots of us read about the appalling national savings rate, the incredibly low 401K balances and we discuss those things. And yes, some of us discuss that we'd be terrified if we were in that boat. And sure, some of us even discuss that we're right on track, or even a little ahead of the game with respect to savings. There are going to be some people who read those threads and think that's bragging, but it's simply a discussion. There are 70,000+ members on this board, someone is always going to be offended by something.

And for those who read the threads where the national state of savings is discussed and take that personally, well, I don't know what to tell you. I wonder how these people read the newpapers or watch the news. Do they live in a bubble or stick their fingers in their ears so they can't hear the news? I think many of them do....because they just don't want to deal with it. And I think what happens is that some people here read those things and say..."uh oh...we're in that boat", and they take it personally, for whatever reason.

branv
07-08-2006, 02:34 PM
Why does this same kind of post pop up every few months? I have to tell you, I rarely see anyone "rubbing anyones noses" in their wealth/savings. Half the time, when they share their means, it was because the post ASKED for people to share. They don't start a post saying "haha, look what a financial genius I am!"

I have spent alot of time over the years on boards, and am amazed at how oversensitive some people are. For instance, I was once on a wedding board when I was planning my wedding. I was talking about the plans I was making, and shared that a relative had suggested to me using fake flowers. I then said in the post that I would never use fake flowers because I don't like them. Suddenly, I'm getting responses about how I'm looking down on people who like fake flowers. Now I'm a snob against all those poor souls who can't afford real flowers for their wedding. Excuse me? I never said anything like "anyone who uses fake flowers is tacky" all I said was that I,Me, myself do not like fake flowers. I think it's the height of insecurity and self absorption when someone assumes that anothers choices, personal opinions or tastes are somehow in existence just to make them look or feel bad. I've seen on here over and over again that someone can't state their opinion simply without it somehow being an intentional slam on someone else.

If someone says, "I would never take a vacation unless I had the money in advance." That does not mean someone else is slime for doing so. It means that's their personal choice and opinion. But woo-hoo, watch a bunch of people get their knickers in a twist anyway.

It was already said on here and I'll say it again...no one can make someone feel inferior without your permission. I wish more people would take responsibility for their own feelings instead of assuming people are out there just to make them feel bad. And half the time I think when they DO get defensive it's because they know their doing something that isn't in their own best interests..if their convictions were so strong on the matter, why would they care what some stranger thinks about it?

In my case, my DH works, and I go to school full time. I don't have children, and yet I'm not working! *gasp* oh the horror! What a slacker I am, that I don't work and go to school at the same time. I know there are some on here who would think I should work as well, but it's a personal decision that works for me and my DH. I don't care what anyone else thinks about it. But if I come on here talking about how I can't pay a bill, and I really want to know how to afford to go to WDW, then I SHOULD expect someone to offer a suggestion that they think I should get a job...and not spend money I don't have. This is a bulletin board, not a private support group, if people don't want to hear any suggestion that might come their way, they shouldn't ask for opinions. If someone feels insecure reading about how others make more money or save more, then don't read posts titled, "how much savings do you have". The only way anyone can survive the society of a bulletin board is to take responsibility for their own feelings, be ready for anything (Esp. when you ask an opinion), and if you have to, move on to the next topic.

Lorikr65
07-08-2006, 02:49 PM
And for those who read the threads where the national state of savings is discussed and take that personally, well, I don't know what to tell you. I wonder how these people read the newpapers or watch the news. Do they live in a bubble or stick their fingers in their ears so they can't hear the news? I think many of them do....because they just don't want to deal with it. And I think what happens is that some people here read those things and say..."uh oh...we're in that boat", and they take it personally, for whatever reason.

Like I've said, sometimes we have to give them the benefit of the doubt. Do people plan to have auto accidents? Do they plan for their spouses to commit suicide and, therefore, wipe out any life insurance? Sometimes we are put in circumstances we can't control and have to make do with what we have. These people don't need to be kicked when they are already down.

dvcgirl
07-08-2006, 03:04 PM
That is precisely the problem - why is there an "us" and a "them", and where does the line exist. Could there also be an education line and a kindness line?? I personally think that people who are kind to others and show emphathy, etc are making a larger contribution in society than those that pull in a larger paycheck.


And what on earth does this mean.....

"I personally think that people who are kind to others and who empathy, etc. are making a larger contribution in society than those that pull in a larger paycheck".

I know more than a few people on this board who pull in healthy six figure incomes with even larger portfolios who take lots and lots of time to answer the most basic of financial questions here. They certainly don't have to do this....they are trying to help. I mean questions like..."What's an IRA".

There are also a lot of questions regarding paying down CC debt, and sticking to a budget. Many of us around here have no CC debt and succesfully stick to a budget. And so we share our experiences in how we do that. Sometimes, examples are given to help to better illustrate how this is possible. And sometimes many of us openly admit that yes, we do make a nice income, and so it *is* easier for us to live beneath our means. Clearly, someone making 20K is going to have it a lot tougher than someone making 125K. I think it's only fair to bring up those points because otherwise the person making 20K goes away thinking...."what the heck am I doing wrong?". And the reality is, they're doing nothing wrong, they just need to figure out a way to make more money or cut expenses.

And so that statement is ridiculous....it's like you're implying that those who make a lot of money have nothing to offer society. I think Warren Buffet and Bill Gates might take issue with that.....

DawnM
07-08-2006, 03:18 PM
Very smart young man.

Oh, and my wedding ring only cost $1,700. I wouldn't trade it for anything!

My MIL was very upset at my husband for not spending more and went on and on about how DH's sister's ring was SO much better, etc....

I commented to her at that time that I was much more concerned about my MARRIAGE than the size of the ring! I got a scoff from her.

Well, here we are 12 years later with a strong marriage, while DH's sister is getting divorced. (please don't misinterpret this as a post against all divorces, etc....it is mearly to say that I don't think that material things=the amount of love or commitment a person has.)

Dawn


Wow, I didn't realize it cost that much for that many points? I often have read about people taking their "free" vacations, but that definitely isn't free!

I think the most important thing is to really instill money management in younger people. I didn't learn this, and learning young is the most important thing. I've a family friend who has a 21 year old son, with a $300K house, a good job, and drives an old car instead of something new to save money (he is very frugal). He bought his fiancee's diamond ring on Ebay, and he did spend a couple of thousand - but some co-workers of his changed the ring in the envelope (which he'd sent to work) with a crackerjack type ring as a joke. He is known as being really thrifty, and I wish I'd learned that young.

dvcgirl
07-08-2006, 03:20 PM
Like I've said, sometimes we have to give them the benefit of the doubt. Do people plan to have auto accidents? Do they plan for their spouses to commit suicide and, therefore, wipe out any life insurance? Sometimes we are put in circumstances we can't control and have to make do with what we have. These people don't need to be kicked when they are already down.

I understand your point. However, many of the conversations around here are of a *general* nature. The state of the nation's savings...retirement crisis....yada yada. Should we not have these conversations because there are people in serious CC debt who got that debt because of an auto accident? I mean, that's life, and sure life can kick you in the teeth.

I guess I just don't see what you are referring to here....that people are being kicked when they are down. Sure, sometimes people come in here and post that they are trying to pay down massive CC debt. And usually (almost always) they have a trip to WDW in the works or they just got back from one. In some of the responses someone (and admittedly I have said this too) will suggest that perhaps they cancel the trip, or think long and hard about another trip until that debt is gone. And there are a *whole* lot of people around here who take issue with that...."how *dare* you tell them that they shouldn't take that trip....they're making priceless memories forever and ever!!!" Find me a CFP who wouldn't give that person the exact same advice.

I've never seen anyone *tell* anyone not to take that trip, but I have seen it offered as a suggestion, and in my opinion it's a valid suggestion. Giving people the benefit of the doubt is great, however, in my experience, there are *very* few people who end up in massive CC debt due to just one catastrophic event. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but in most cases it's a combination of events. My BIL is an attorney and my Mom works for an attorney and they handle bankruptcies....both say that while major events happen, it's usually not the sole cause of the debt.

For example, a job loss leads to overusing CCs because there is no income, but then the person simply maintains the same lifestyle instead of cutting back. If you ask that person how they got in such CC debt they will say..."I lost my job and I ended up having to put all of my expenses on my CCs." They won't tell you that they didn't cut cable or the cell phone, or the trips to the mall. Same thing with medical debt that ends up on a card. It may start the snowball down the hill, but invariably there are a whole lot of other expenses that end up on those cards. Ask that person how they ended up in all of that debt and they'll tell you "We had medical expenses that weren't covered and they ended up on the card." They won't tell you that there was also a vacation and a new wardrobe on that same card.

I don't know...I think people can be too sensitive when it comes to this stuff.

DawnM
07-08-2006, 03:27 PM
I think some people really don't understand that cable, cell, etc...ARE luxuries. Many of us grew up without any of these extra things. I sometimes take it for granted that these are "necessities" and they just plain aren't!

I am NOT speaking in particular to anyone on this board!!!! I am just making a general comment. (and reminding myself in the process.)

I have a dear friend right now whose idiot husband left her and her 4 children. She never finished college and doesn't have any "career" to fall back on. She is struggling big time.

But she got cable, high speed internet, cell service, a car she couldn't afford, etc.....because she just isn't thinking and hasn't really been taught that these are not necessities. When I tried to comment without being "preachy" she justified each and every service/purchase, etc....so I just let it go.

Dawn

summerrluvv
07-08-2006, 03:41 PM
Very smart young man.

Oh, and my wedding ring only cost $1,700. I wouldn't trade it for anything!

My MIL was very upset at my husband for not spending more and went on and on about how DH's sister's ring was SO much better, etc....



Dawn

Only $1,700? Pfft, who needs real diamonds, get a Diamonique..a ring is just a ring. What the ring symbolizes is what is important, not the rock itself ;) :teeth:

scraptoons
07-08-2006, 03:59 PM
LOL about the diamonds.

My engagement ring is a very nice CZ and gold. It was CHEAP. Lots of women drool over it. I just simply say thanks. It's just a ring for crying out loud.

My DH surprised me one anniversary with a REAL diamond ring. He managed to get a 1 carat ring for $500. I still wear the CZ on my other hand.

I get so tickled when I have women with HUMONGOUS diamond rings gasping over my little sparkly ones. (its the way they're cut that reflect the light BIG time).


Money isn't everything.

We SAHM can easily fall into the trap of feeling that way.

We have to press on to the prize and remember why we are SAHM's.

The kids will be grown and gone before you know it. Then you have all the time in the world to work and make money.

I don't like to waste my time reading brag posts, or chewings out of people who have debt or overlimit fees, etc.

I say that because some people posting don't know each other's situations well enough. Sometimes it takes evaluating a whole lifetime of ecosystem, experiences, self esteem issues, family makeup, etc...to figure out the best advice to give them.

I'm sure that they may have some good intentions by giving some sound advice, but its not as black and white for some as it is for others.

Kramer
07-08-2006, 04:05 PM
My 2 cents...

I don't think anyone here posts with the intent to hurt anyone else's feelings, but I do think there are people that use this forum to brag about their financial situation.

There are a few people that will drop in on a budget thread and post one or two nuggets of guidance and then spend the other 80% of the post listing their net worth and bragging under the guise of providing helpful information.

And this gets repeated in every budget or credit card thread so that you get stuck reading the same financial succes story over and over.

P.S.

I do not include disneysteve (since someone mentioned physicians) in the above group... I think he really goes out of his way to give advice without being condescending.

DVC Sadie
07-08-2006, 04:20 PM
I'm pretty immune to "holier art thou" posts. For the most part, people have different opportunities, different blessings and different priorities. And people have different life experiences which mold how they choose to live their lives. No one way is right. And no one way will produce universal happiness or guarantee an easy life and/or retirement.

When people speak of their priorities and how they've achieved them, I often stop and wonder if I would give up X in order to be in their position. Most times the answer is absolutely not. Probably all the time because I can't think of one instance where I've regretted the things I've done.

I choose wisely according to what I have, what I want and where I want to be in the future. Those choices may fall short of future goal attainment but I also may be hit by a car tomorrow. It's a balance between living and existing.

Thank You for putting into words what I have a problem explaining. (hope that made sense).

Why do some people need to know that others have had immense hardships to try to feel good about the decisions they have made?

I cannot tell you how many times I have had others PM me to tell me how sorry they were that our only son had died but ..... and then it goes on, and on. So if a person has achieved financial freedom by not going on vacations for years or by doing without then it is fine IF some other calamity has befalled them. :confused3

All I wish/hope for anyone is to be content in their lives with what they have and if they want more then strive/work for it (whatever it is) because only you (general you) can change it.

mickeyluv'r
07-08-2006, 04:37 PM
Actually I take it the other way. I have to admire someone who has been disciplined enough to build their savings up the way they have and still be able to find money for vacations to Disney.

We all make choices and no one can make you feel bad about those choices unless you let them. A friend of mine used to say "you can't be a doormat unless you lay down in front of someone and let them walk all over you".

I have made bad choices in life but I have learned from them and don't make them again.

I mostly agree with this post. I think many posters have great advice. I think posting is asking for a myriad of opinions - some good, some bad, and if you post a question, it's wise to be prepared for both. I also think there is a time and a place for a little constructive criticism.

I also hthink ahuge flaw is that we can't distinguish tone on a blog. That causes lots of confusion, misinterpretation, and mistakenly hurt feelings.

There are a number of Americans who are woefully irresponsible, and at some point, it IS helpful to have someone point out where you could be making better choices.
I had a good friend in college who made a series of REALLY bad choices. It was painful to see him crash. He needed to hear that he was making mistakes. Others don't, they need a boost to keep them on the right path.

I also think there are people who are hyper-sensative sometimes on certain issues, and we don't really know someone's background when we post, just th elittle info they give us. A perfectly innocent person might give a wrong impression becuse they are not strong in verbal skills. But I think most people are trying to help, even if they aren't saying it in the best way.

Truth Teller
07-08-2006, 04:44 PM
Yes, I do feel like people here like to talk about how much they make, how much they have, etc. dvcgirl is one. I am so sick of hearing about how great she is doing when it hasn't been asked for.

Yes, she can be put on the ignore list, but why should she have to be? Does anyone really need to bring up in EVERY thread their portfolio? Then, say that they have nothing to be ashamed of and it's "just discussion".

We have a man in our town who is beyond wealthy. He owns pretty much the whole town, but you would never know it to look at him (or hear him speak). He doesn't brag or boast. He doesn't find a way to bring his income into every conversation.

You can't tell me that a person can't give advice without telling their whole financial history (over and over again).

I do think that the mods do a great job here. I also think that people need to reexamine what they post, why, and how often.

kjs1976
07-08-2006, 05:22 PM
Yes, I do feel like people here like to talk about how much they make, how much they have, etc.
You can't tell me that a person can't give advice without telling their whole financial history (over and over again).
I do think that the mods do a great job here. I also think that people need to reexamine what they post, why, and how often.

I agree! I agree!!!

Plus there are always a few snipes who have to chime in when you think you're just asking a basic question and they blow what you've said/asked out of portion. I had someone do that this winter when I commented on how I never knew how far it was to walk from Country Fare all the way to the main bldg. in AS-Music and how it would be hard to walk that each day on a vaction after spending all day at the parks. Someone blasted me for thinking it was too far and how lazy was I...hey I run 5Ks and am in the best shape of my life but I still thought it was far! And then someone said who in their right mind spends all day at a park???? Om, don't a lot of people, I mean we might take a 2 hr, break in the afternoon, go back, and eat dinner...but I digress.

nbodyhome
07-08-2006, 05:27 PM
Very smart young man.

Oh, and my wedding ring only cost $1,700. I wouldn't trade it for anything!


Dawn

Only 1700? :) Mine is moissonite, just $300! My husband wasn't comfortable buying an American diamond due to the way they treat workers at diamond mines and such, so I looked online and found moissonite. It looks the same to me, and cost a lot less.

I'd rather spend more on memory-making events (like trips) than stuff. I am very proud to tell everyone about my $300 ring!

I don't know if I mentioned this, but it was really funny - when we got married in 2004, I bought roses for the wedding. My mom, a few days before the wedding, asked if I was sure I should spend the money on roses (I believe this was prompted by my sister, who had things to say previously about our photographer - of course, my sister spent like $1000 on her flowers!). I was like "is $30 too much for flowers? That pretty much shut her up. :) For $30 or $40, we had enough roses for the bouquet, and flowers for the tables (we only had about 50 people total). Sams Club is great! We got our cake and cupcakes there too.

dvcgirl
07-08-2006, 05:33 PM
Yes, I do feel like people here like to talk about how much they make, how much they have, etc. dvcgirl is one. I am so sick of hearing about how great she is doing when it hasn't been asked for.

Yes, she can be put on the ignore list, but why should she have to be? Does anyone really need to bring up in EVERY thread their portfolio? Then, say that they have nothing to be ashamed of and it's "just discussion".

We have a man in our town who is beyond wealthy. He owns pretty much the whole town, but you would never know it to look at him (or hear him speak). He doesn't brag or boast. He doesn't find a way to bring his income into every conversation.

You can't tell me that a person can't give advice without telling their whole financial history (over and over again).

I do think that the mods do a great job here. I also think that people need to reexamine what they post, why, and how often.

So brave of you to post under your real name. Why not just PM me if you'd like to attack me. It would be so much more....what's the word I'm searching for.....oh, mature.

For the record, I have never posted what we make. Would you like to know though? I'd be more than happy to share that with you if you're sincerely interested. I have shared that we are in the top 5% of earners according to the US Census....and I surely wasn't the first to say that, or the only one to say that since then. I'm quite sure there are a whole lot of people here who make less than us based on that Census number, but also more than a few who make a lot more. And frankly, I could care less. To me it's just a number, and one I'd gladly share. I have nothing to hide, nor anything to be ashamed of. I don't brag about what we have, but I do speak of our personal quest to live beneath our means....something that seems to be a lost art in this country. I post about what we *don't* have, the things we decided not to purchase, even though in many cases we can afford those things. Others post similar thoughts...i find it really refreshing, especially in our world today.

Really, when it all comes down to it...I don't think the advice handed out does much good anyway. I don't know why any of us even bother.....misery loves company and many here would rather just commiserate with each other that they're the *normal* ones, the ones with consumer debt, still taking trips to WDW and buying things they can't afford. After all, it is the American way.

DVC Sadie
07-08-2006, 05:38 PM
Yes, I do feel like people here like to talk about how much they make, how much they have, etc. dvcgirl is one. I am so sick of hearing about how great she is doing when it hasn't been asked for.

Yes, she can be put on the ignore list, but why should she have to be? Does anyone really need to bring up in EVERY thread their portfolio? Then, say that they have nothing to be ashamed of and it's "just discussion".

We have a man in our town who is beyond wealthy. He owns pretty much the whole town, but you would never know it to look at him (or hear him speak). He doesn't brag or boast. He doesn't find a way to bring his income into every conversation.

You can't tell me that a person can't give advice without telling their whole financial history (over and over again).


I do think that the mods do a great job here. I also think that people need to reexamine what they post, why, and how often.

If the "MAN" you know is extremely beyond wealthy and you wouldn't know it, then how could you possibly KNOW?

Why do you pick out one poster and try to degrade/debase everything they have to say, without allowing others to get a gleem of their expertise just because they don't say it the way you would/could?

Someone else also tried to do the same thing in regards to a certain other person/doctor and others would not allow any personal attacks but the person you mentioned should be fair game? I don't think so!

From here on out I will just agree with anybody who asked any type of financial question and say, hey, "You are doing great" ! How silly is that?

tinker&belle
07-08-2006, 05:46 PM
LOL about the diamonds.

My engagement ring is a very nice CZ and gold. It was CHEAP. Lots of women drool over it. I just simply say thanks. It's just a ring for crying out loud.

My DH surprised me one anniversary with a REAL diamond ring. He managed to get a 1 carat ring for $500. I still wear the CZ on my other hand.

I get so tickled when I have women with HUMONGOUS diamond rings gasping over my little sparkly ones. (its the way they're cut that reflect the light BIG time).


Money isn't everything.

We SAHM can easily fall into the trap of feeling that way.

We have to press on to the prize and remember why we are SAHM's.

The kids will be grown and gone before you know it. Then you have all the time in the world to work and make money.

I don't like to waste my time reading brag posts, or chewings out of people who have debt or overlimit fees, etc.

I say that because some people posting don't know each other's situations well enough. Sometimes it takes evaluating a whole lifetime of ecosystem, experiences, self esteem issues, family makeup, etc...to figure out the best advice to give them.

I'm sure that they may have some good intentions by giving some sound advice, but its not as black and white for some as it is for others.


Scraptoons-
Where are you at in Texas? I know another lady from Texas who does the same thing. (And her CZ diamonds are drool-worthy! If they were real I'm sure the ring would be in the upper five digit raise.)

Lorikr65
07-08-2006, 05:47 PM
And what on earth does this mean.....

"I personally think that people who are kind to others and who empathy, etc. are making a larger contribution in society than those that pull in a larger paycheck".

And so that statement is ridiculous....it's like you're implying that those who make a lot of money have nothing to offer society. I think Warren Buffet and Bill Gates might take issue with that.....

Did I not say my daughter's orthodontist contributes a lot to the community?? I'm saying your value as a human being and your contribution to society doesn't lie solely on how much you make as some would like to think. I really feel like I'm wasting my time arguing this particular issue with you, I'm sure most people know where I am coming from.

I am reading a book "where the heart is" by Billie Letts. It's really an eye opener on how happy one can be and have a sense of belonging and have absolutely no money but be surrounded by people who care about you and love you.

I normally just read threads and don't even look to see who is posting or responding. Well, after reading some of these now I know who these people are talking about when they say there are a few that they just need to use the ignore feature with! :rotfl:

But this is also the reason why I don't know who you are referring to when you mention the gentleman who helps everyone (the doctor). Whoever you are, I truly hope I didn't offend you because it surely was not my intention.

I have to agree with the people who say you can give advice and not brag - it has been done so it can be done!! It's funny because you see threads like this and the same people post the same story each time!!

Truth Teller
07-08-2006, 05:49 PM
So brave of you to post under your real name. Why not just PM me if you'd like to attack me. It would be so much more....what's the word I'm searching for.....oh, mature.



First of all, this is my real name. I choose not to post, but instead try to learn from the boards here. There is sucha thing as a lurker you know.

If the "MAN" you know is extremely beyond wealthy and you wouldn't know it, then how could you possibly KNOW?

Why do you pick out one poster and try to degrade/debase everything they have to say, without allowing others to get a gleem of their expertise just because they don't say it the way you would/could?


The "MAN" is a well known business man. I happen to work at a place that handles his financial records, so I have seen them. However, most people in this town have no idea of his wealth. He drives an older model car, doesn't dress in designer clothes, and NEVER brings up his wealth.

I picked out one poster because that person CONSTANTLY brings up their finances, each thread they post to. Yes, it is great to offer advice, but like I said before, do we really need to hear how great they are doing all the time? It's one thing if the question is asked, it's entirely another to brag about it.

Also, I think it's great to live below ones means, that it not the issue here. The issue is that someone people like to boast/brag. How does that help anyone?

summerrluvv
07-08-2006, 05:50 PM
Only 1700? :) Mine is moissonite, just $300! My husband wasn't comfortable buying an American diamond due to the way they treat workers at diamond mines and such, so I looked online and found moissonite. It looks the same to me, and cost a lot less.

I'd rather spend more on memory-making events (like trips) than stuff. I am very proud to tell everyone about my $300 ring!

I don't know if I mentioned this, but it was really funny - when we got married in 2004, I bought roses for the wedding. My mom, a few days before the wedding, asked if I was sure I should spend the money on roses (I believe this was prompted by my sister, who had things to say previously about our photographer - of course, my sister spent like $1000 on her flowers!). I was like "is $30 too much for flowers? That pretty much shut her up. :) For $30 or $40, we had enough roses for the bouquet, and flowers for the tables (we only had about 50 people total). Sams Club is great! We got our cake and cupcakes there too.

That's awesome!! I've seen a lot of moissonite rings lately and they are really really pretty. HSN had some nice ones on last night.

You know..QVC has some REALLY nice wedding sets done in diamonique. When I got married, I just had a traditional wedding band, but I saw a really pretty ring on QVC and my husband ordered it for me. It was white gold with a large stone in the center and 2 on either side. It was beautiful and I got soooo many compliments on it! No one knew it wasn't made of real diamonds ;)

I also have some diamonique princess cut earrings and I get a ton of compliments on those as well. I had real diamond earrings that I got for xmas a few years ago, and guess what..I lost one!

perdidobay
07-08-2006, 05:51 PM
I also think that people need to reexamine what they post, why, and how often.




got a mirror?

Truth Teller
07-08-2006, 05:52 PM
I have to agree with the people who say you can give advice and not brag - it has been done so it can be done!! It's funny because you see threads like this and the same people post the same story each time!!

Exactly. I do have a feeling this is going to go the way of the "holier than thou" thread and be closed.

I am sorry for that, but when the same people say the same things you would think once it would click with to stop.

tinker&belle
07-08-2006, 05:52 PM
Yes, I do feel like people here like to talk about how much they make, how much they have, etc. dvcgirl is one. I am so sick of hearing about how great she is doing when it hasn't been asked for.

Yes, she can be put on the ignore list, but why should she have to be? Does anyone really need to bring up in EVERY thread their portfolio? Then, say that they have nothing to be ashamed of and it's "just discussion".

We have a man in our town who is beyond wealthy. He owns pretty much the whole town, but you would never know it to look at him (or hear him speak). He doesn't brag or boast. He doesn't find a way to bring his income into every conversation.

You can't tell me that a person can't give advice without telling their whole financial history (over and over again).


I do think that the mods do a great job here. I also think that people need to reexamine what they post, why, and how often.


Wow...you went to the trouble to make a new account to blast one individual. The OP only was talking about the tone of people IN GENERAL...wow. :sad2:

summerrluvv
07-08-2006, 05:52 PM
got a mirror?

Since the thread has turned into personal attacks, lets just countdown the minutes until it is locked.

popcorn::

mjbaby
07-08-2006, 05:53 PM
I've always kind of felt that people who take offense to others' life choices or think that they're "made to feel inferior by what Mr./Mrs. X" does or has to say are overly invested in their own navel gazing (defined by the American Heritage Dictionary as "excessive introspection, self-absorption").

Do what you do, live your life and, to the extent that your choices don't impact others, don't worry so much about external validation. Outside approval doesn't feel as good as being secure internally, anyway.

Truth Teller
07-08-2006, 05:55 PM
got a mirror?


Yes and I like what I see.

I am only pointing out the person because everyone else is tip toeing around it.

tinker&belle
07-08-2006, 05:56 PM
Yes and I like what I see.

I am only pointing out the person because everyone else is tip toeing around it.

I don't think the OP said she felt it about one individual (unless you are the OP?) but it is hard to discuss with you since you are using an alias.

Truth Teller
07-08-2006, 05:58 PM
I don't think the OP said she felt it about one individual (unless you are the OP?) but it is hard to discuss with you since you are using an alias.


I know this isn't about one person, I said she was ONE of them. There are others, but she is here and can defend herself (the others aren't).

imsayin
07-08-2006, 05:59 PM
I think some people really don't understand that cable, cell, etc...ARE luxuries. Many of us grew up without any of these extra things. I sometimes take it for granted that these are "necessities" and they just plain aren't!

We could make an endless list of these items. We had 1 TV (black & white for a while) growing up, 1 vacation per year - camping, no dinners out, no extra-curricular sports, and on and on...... All these things we spend money on now are not "necessities", but they are things that many people include in their expenses (me included). I understand it completely, but pick & choose where I spend so I don't over do it.

Lorikr65
07-08-2006, 05:59 PM
I've never had one of my threads closed :sad2:

DVCgirl - I'm sorry you have no tolerance for people who aren't like you. I don't have credit card debt, I pay my bills on time, what else I have is noone's business. I dont' know how I rate on the US census because I never really cared or thought to find out - it doesn't matter to me. I don't have to compare myself to others because I love where I am right now, it fits like a glove. We watch guys that my husband works with compete for who will have the largest house - they're probably up to $750,000 - waste of time.

Truth Teller - I hear where you are coming from - you can only take so much!! Sorry I got you annoyed and "picked on"!! You were just speaking you mind which others are also doing.

tinker&belle
07-08-2006, 06:02 PM
For the record, I wasn't 'picking' on the person using this name, I was just shocked to see that someone made up a name to attack another diser...I'm backing away now... :grouphug: (I think we need it)

DawnM
07-08-2006, 06:03 PM
Ah, good! I know very few people who have a ring that cost less than mine did! You wouldn't believe how many needed to comment on that alone! Oh, and then there was my "cheap" wedding (according to DH's family). We spent less than $4,000 on the wedding and we had over 250 people come. We served a full buffet lunch, no alcohol.

I could go on and on.....but we are the ONLY remaining married couple of DH's six siblings (one hasn't married yet)! They are all divorced. Too much focus on money and appearances.

Good for you!,

Dawn

Only 1700? :) Mine is moissonite, just $300! My husband wasn't comfortable buying an American diamond due to the way they treat workers at diamond mines and such, so I looked online and found moissonite. It looks the same to me, and cost a lot less.

I'd rather spend more on memory-making events (like trips) than stuff. I am very proud to tell everyone about my $300 ring!

I don't know if I mentioned this, but it was really funny - when we got married in 2004, I bought roses for the wedding. My mom, a few days before the wedding, asked if I was sure I should spend the money on roses (I believe this was prompted by my sister, who had things to say previously about our photographer - of course, my sister spent like $1000 on her flowers!). I was like "is $30 too much for flowers? That pretty much shut her up. :) For $30 or $40, we had enough roses for the bouquet, and flowers for the tables (we only had about 50 people total). Sams Club is great! We got our cake and cupcakes there too.

Truth Teller
07-08-2006, 06:04 PM
I've never had one of my threads closed :sad2:



Truth Teller - I hear where you are coming from - you can only take so much!! Sorry I got you annoyed and "picked on"!! You were just speaking you mind which others are also doing.

I am sorry that your thread is probably going to be closed. It always happens when this topic is brought up.


You didn't get me annoyed at all and I can handle anyone here. I don't measure myself against them.

Oh, and I am NOT the OP.

Lorikr65
07-08-2006, 06:06 PM
I am sorry that your thread is probably going to be closed. It always happens when this topic is brought up.


You didn't get me annoyed at all and I can handle anyone here. I don't measure myself against them.

Oh, and I am NOT the OP.

If you were, that would mean I was talking to myself!!

Truth Teller
07-08-2006, 06:08 PM
If you were, that would mean I was talking to myself!!
:rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

I justed wanted to let everyone else know you aren't me (they seem to think that way, ya know). :thumbsup2

DawnM
07-08-2006, 06:11 PM
You know, this may sound like I am a complete idiot....but I honestly didn't KNOW about such things when we were getting married. That was 12 years ago. I had never owned much jewelry in my life and had never shopped for it before....it was all given to me. If I had known I might have gone for it.....although we did have the money at the time. We were both working full time, no kids, etc...

Dawn

Only $1,700? Pfft, who needs real diamonds, get a Diamonique..a ring is just a ring. What the ring symbolizes is what is important, not the rock itself ;) :teeth:

DawnM
07-08-2006, 06:12 PM
Ok, I want to know.....where can I find this census rating of how much people make?

Dawn

Never mind, I found it:

How much income does it take to be in the top 20%, in the top 5%?
If your household income before taxes in 2002 was $84,016 or higher, you were in the top 20% of the nation's households.
If your household income in 2002 was $150,002 or higher, you were in the top 5%.

Below is a table showing the income limits for each quintile (fifth) of the nation's households in 2002.

Quintile Yearly Income Range in 2001
Lowest $0 - $13,478
Second $13,478 - $25,847
Third $25,847 - $44,451
Fourth $44,451 - $79,562
Highest $79,562 and higher
Top 5% $162,351 and higher
Top 1% $383,407 and higher
Top .5% $581,019 and higher
Top 400 ind. $87 million and higher

gina2000
07-08-2006, 06:18 PM
I just wanted to add that I was not even thinking of anyone on this thread when I posted. I was thinking about people I know, decisions they've made and lifestyles they maintain and their perceptions of me based on those same topics.

I think I've learned and thought about a ton of things that people have discussed on this board and have never looked at any of them with disdain.

Allison
07-08-2006, 06:22 PM
Why does this same kind of post pop up every few months? I have to tell you, I rarely see anyone "rubbing anyones noses" in their wealth/savings. Half the time, when they share their means, it was because the post ASKED for people to share. They don't start a post saying "haha, look what a financial genius I am!"

I have spent alot of time over the years on boards, and am amazed at how oversensitive some people are. For instance, I was once on a wedding board when I was planning my wedding. I was talking about the plans I was making, and shared that a relative had suggested to me using fake flowers. I then said in the post that I would never use fake flowers because I don't like them. Suddenly, I'm getting responses about how I'm looking down on people who like fake flowers. Now I'm a snob against all those poor souls who can't afford real flowers for their wedding. Excuse me? I never said anything like "anyone who uses fake flowers is tacky" all I said was that I,Me, myself do not like fake flowers. I think it's the height of insecurity and self absorption when someone assumes that anothers choices, personal opinions or tastes are somehow in existence just to make them look or feel bad. I've seen on here over and over again that someone can't state their opinion simply without it somehow being an intentional slam on someone else.

If someone says, "I would never take a vacation unless I had the money in advance." That does not mean someone else is slime for doing so. It means that's their personal choice and opinion. But woo-hoo, watch a bunch of people get their knickers in a twist anyway.

It was already said on here and I'll say it again...no one can make someone feel inferior without your permission. I wish more people would take responsibility for their own feelings instead of assuming people are out there just to make them feel bad. And half the time I think when they DO get defensive it's because they know their doing something that isn't in their own best interests..if their convictions were so strong on the matter, why would they care what some stranger thinks about it?

In my case, my DH works, and I go to school full time. I don't have children, and yet I'm not working! *gasp* oh the horror! What a slacker I am, that I don't work and go to school at the same time. I know there are some on here who would think I should work as well, but it's a personal decision that works for me and my DH. I don't care what anyone else thinks about it. But if I come on here talking about how I can't pay a bill, and I really want to know how to afford to go to WDW, then I SHOULD expect someone to offer a suggestion that they think I should get a job...and not spend money I don't have. This is a bulletin board, not a private support group, if people don't want to hear any suggestion that might come their way, they shouldn't ask for opinions. If someone feels insecure reading about how others make more money or save more, then don't read posts titled, "how much savings do you have". The only way anyone can survive the society of a bulletin board is to take responsibility for their own feelings, be ready for anything (Esp. when you ask an opinion), and if you have to, move on to the next topic.

Very well said. :sunny:

nbodyhome
07-08-2006, 06:38 PM
Ah, good! I know very few people who have a ring that cost less than mine did! You wouldn't believe how many needed to comment on that alone! Oh, and then there was my "cheap" wedding (according to DH's family). We spent less than $4,000 on the wedding and we had over 250 people come. We served a full buffet lunch, no alcohol.


I don't know many people who have a less expensive ring than mine, either. :)

I am really surprised that anyone would comment on your ring! I wouldn't care as far as mine - I am proud to say how cheap it was. It looks like a diamond, is just about as hard as a diamond, etc. I am actually more sensitive to people saying that I spent too much on something, not too little.

That is great on your wedding! Including the photography, ours may have been closer to $3000. But it was a great wedding, on a farm (they do weddings and other events there) and also included us staying one night in the apartment loft of their barn (set up for couples). I bought my wedding dress on Ebay for like $75. I'd thought about doing the wedding ourselves, but this ended up being easier.

As far as the whole thread - I would guess that most people here are middle to upper middle class, that is now where I'd fit in. But a couple of years ago, I was only earning about $10,000 a year and having to live on that. Then again, my expenses were much lower too (I had a roommate who was thrifty, which helped). There wasn't much to save, though.

DVC Sadie
07-08-2006, 06:40 PM
Ok, I want to know.....where can I find this census rating of how much people make?

Dawn

Never mind, I found it:

How much income does it take to be in the top 20%, in the top 5%?
If your household income before taxes in 2002 was $84,016 or higher, you were in the top 20% of the nation's households.
If your household income in 2002 was $150,002 or higher, you were in the top 5%.

Below is a table showing the income limits for each quintile (fifth) of the nation's households in 2002.

Quintile Yearly Income Range in 2001
Lowest $0 - $13,478
Second $13,478 - $25,847
Third $25,847 - $44,451
Fourth $44,451 - $79,562
Highest $79,562 and higher
Top 5% $162,351 and higher
Top 1% $383,407 and higher
Top .5% $581,019 and higher
Top 400 ind. $87 million and higher

Dang, Now should I feel inadequate because we are not in the top .5% of income? :rotfl2:
Some of these posts are down right ridiculous, especially since it is a forum with a lot of different views, economical backgrounds and educational opportunities.

Marie17
07-08-2006, 06:42 PM
Where's the link for the earnings report?

I would like to know where we stand - I'm curious.

DVC Sadie
07-08-2006, 06:44 PM
For the record, I wasn't 'picking' on the person using this name, I was just shocked to see that someone made up a name to attack another diser...I'm backing away now... :grouphug: (I think we need it)


Me too! I all of a sudden started to get scared about being thrown off the Disboards or worse, being in Dis purgatory.

tarheelmjfan
07-08-2006, 07:24 PM
There's no need for calling names. Anyone who's been on this board for any length of time knows who can be obnoxious at times. Everyone that is, but them. Either they don't see if or don't care. Regardless, calling people out probably isn't the best way of expressing your feelings.

After reading that census, I have one last thought on this subject. Anyone who makes over a 1/2 million dollars a year, should have a lot of money in savings & retirement. Credit card debt shouldn't be a problem either. There's nothing the least bit impressive about them being able to do this. The person who makes $30,000 a year & is able to accomplish these things is the one to be impressed by. :teeth:

MyGoofy26
07-08-2006, 07:48 PM
Only 1700? :) Mine is moissonite, just $300! My husband wasn't comfortable buying an American diamond due to the way they treat workers at diamond mines and such, so I looked online and found moissonite. It looks the same to me, and cost a lot less.

I had a geography clas years ago and my professor did all his research in Africa so we spent the bulk of the semester on that continent. If I took nothing else away from that class, I have a WHOLE new opinion of diamonds . . . and it isn't a good one. For one, if I ever go diamond shopping it'll be for "clean" diamonds. The horror stories about rebels and the atrocities that happen to the people in these countries over the diamond mines. . . I couldn't live with myself for contributing to that! And then take the actual value of a diamond. . . artificially inflated. VERY inflated. According to this professor, the De Beers corporation (actually not affiliated with the stores) owns the large percentage of diamond mines and therefore control how many diamonds make it into the market. If they'd just release what they have in vaults, we're not even talking about what's still left to be mined, the value of a diamond would be about the same as cubic zirconia.

So good for you and your hubby!! So few people know or care about the story connected to those rocks.

branv
07-08-2006, 08:18 PM
Yes and I like what I see.

I am only pointing out the person because everyone else is tip toeing around it.

How about you do everyone a favor and not try to speak for anyone but yourself. I know I certainly wouldn't want to be lumped in with you as green is just not my color.

And while you're looking in the mirror, why don't you turn around and check out that yellow stripe.

Amii
07-08-2006, 08:20 PM
I have just spent the last 6 years digging myself out of debt because my son was very sick and we had huge medical bills. When I finally thought we were in the clear financially my mother became ill and I am trying to pay her bills and my bills. Back in the hole I go.

I don't know if some of the threads are made to make people feel inadequate. Do they make me feel inadequate? Never! My son beat the odds and is still alive. My mother is still alive even though she has been in an ICU unit for months. I have a great husband and supportive friends. My family always has enough to eat, gas, electric, etc.

This thread has been nasty at times and I don't understand why. Instead of looking at what I don't have I try to look at what I do have. I know far too many people who spend their whole life basing their happiness and worth on how much money they make or don't make. There is a lot more to life than money.

*puts on flame resistant suit*

BethR
07-08-2006, 08:22 PM
WOW! Spend a few hours having dinner with the in-laws, going to church, and watching some real QUALITY programming (The Ultimate Coyote - if you don't know, you don't want to. :blush: ), and I get on to find THIS!!! Things have really gone down hill since this afternoon, haven't they?

Does anyone think that there is ANY chance of this thread getting back to being a reasonable discussion? Does anyone want to try?

tarheelmjfan
07-08-2006, 08:40 PM
WOW! Spend a few hours having dinner with the in-laws, going to church, and watching some real QUALITY programming (The Ultimate Coyote - if you don't know, you don't want to. :blush: ), and I get on to find THIS!!! Things have really gone down hill since this afternoon, haven't they?



Now, I just have to know. What is The Ultimate Coyote? I'm assuming you're not referring to your MIL as a vicious animal who eats people alive. :rotfl:

disneynutt1225
07-08-2006, 08:42 PM
I'm assuming you're not referring to your MIL as a vicious animal who eats people alive. :rotfl:

:lmao: Sprite almost through the nose..... :rotfl:

Yes, do tell about this Ultimate Coyote...

BethR
07-08-2006, 08:44 PM
Now, I just have to know. What is The Ultimate Coyote? I'm assuming you're not referring to your MIL as a vicious animal who eats people alive. :rotfl:

:rotfl: Well, DMIL can have a very sharp tongue, but hasn't yet eaten anyone alive. :teeth:

The Ultimate Coyote is a reality contest thing - like the model thing or the Apprentice - but it is essentially a search for new girls for the Coyote Ugly Bars. And the one who is the winner is "The Ultimate Coyote."

See, I told you you didn't want to know! :dance3:

summerrluvv
07-08-2006, 08:46 PM
:rotfl: Well, DMIL can have a very sharp tongue, but hasn't yet eaten anyone alive. :teeth:

The Ultimate Coyote is a reality contest thing - like the model thing or the Apprentice - but it is essentially a search for new girls for the Coyote Ugly Bars. And the one who is the winner is "The Ultimate Coyote."

See, I told you you didn't want to know! :dance3:

What channel is that on? I love reality shows LOL

Amii
07-08-2006, 08:46 PM
I think the Ultimate Coyote is a reality type show where women compete for a job at a Coyote Ugly bar. I've never seen it, but some friends were talking about it once.

I guess I need to type faster. Sorry about that!

BethR
07-08-2006, 08:47 PM
What channel is that on? I love reality shows LOL

CMT? Country Music TV! Enjoy! :p

summerrluvv
07-08-2006, 08:55 PM
CMT? Country Music TV! Enjoy! :p

Cool, I'll have to check it out ;)

MyGoofy26
07-08-2006, 09:08 PM
:rotfl: Well, DMIL can have a very sharp tongue, but hasn't yet eaten anyone alive. :teeth:

The Ultimate Coyote is a reality contest thing - like the model thing or the Apprentice - but it is essentially a search for new girls for the Coyote Ugly Bars. And the one who is the winner is "The Ultimate Coyote."

See, I told you you didn't want to know! :dance3:


Soooo. . . the girls that aren't the "ultimate" coyote. . . do they feel inadequate?

Bad joke I know. . . someone slap me, the lack of sleep this week is finally getting to me.

BethR
07-08-2006, 09:16 PM
Soooo. . . the girls that aren't the "ultimate" coyote. . . do they feel inadequate?



VERY Good, Carrie! : :rotfl2:

Now, do you all think that it is safe for me to go to bed, or should I just put this thread to bed?

tarheelmjfan
07-08-2006, 09:30 PM
Now, do you all think that it is safe for me to go to bed, or should I just put this thread to bed?


I don't know. There's a Coyote Ugly in Ybor City, not far enough away from here. Since you seem to be an expert in the field, we may need to call on you to keep the predators at bay, when the ladies do their thing. :rotfl2:

pearlieq
07-08-2006, 10:25 PM
Does anyone think that there is ANY chance of this thread getting back to being a reasonable discussion? Does anyone want to try?

Why are Truth Teller's posts being tolerated? Is this not a clear violation of DIS posting guidelines WRT personal attacks?

By the way, this person couldn't have provided a clearer illustration about what I was talking about earlier. This is just not a very nice place to be anymore.

tarheelmjfan
07-08-2006, 10:30 PM
Personally, I'm having a pretty good time around here at the moment, & think we should just let it go already. :teeth:

dvcgirl
07-08-2006, 11:02 PM
Why are Truth Teller's posts being tolerated? Is this not a clear violation of DIS posting guidelines WRT personal attacks?


No worries...I only wish that the person would reveal who they really are. Clearly this isn't a lurker. All of the giggling after the fact reminds me of high school games. Big fun for some I suppose. I think a lot of these comments boil down to two words.....sour grapes. I really still have no idea what the big deal is with respect to who makes what....to me it's more about what you do with what you do make. I'm always interested in discussing that, and will continue to join in on any discussions on that topic. :).

miss missy
07-08-2006, 11:59 PM
I am not a SAHM, but my hearts aches everyday about that. I commend you for doing it!! You have my respect.

I know what you mean- I understood your point. I have see harshness as well on topics of money issues. From what I have seen, it is a lot of the same members so after a while, you just get to know the personality and skip over the response. It becomes second nature after a while :goodvibes !!!!!!!

Free4Life11
07-09-2006, 12:15 AM
And this gets repeated in every budget or credit card thread so that you get stuck reading the same financial succes story over and over.

Yes! There is one particular story I know so well I think I could write a book. I've seen the same story posted on so many threads on here and even on the community board. :crazy:

I like this board, lots of good tips and whatnot. But there seems to be a lot of unsolicited advice. I think a good rule of thumb is, if someone doesn't ask for advice, don't give it.

Do I think some posters make people feel inadequate? Sure. I don't think most do it intentionally, although I think some could use a little tact. There is a thread right now that really rubs me the wrong way, because of the very first line. I'm not going to mention it, but I will just say that yes, I can see why it would come off as condescening/bragging to some and why it could be viewed as trying to make others feel inadequate.

BethR
07-09-2006, 06:14 AM
Since it doesn't look as if this thread can go anywhere but down, it is being closed.