What to do-another renter situation(long!) UPDATED POST #28 [Archive] - The DIS Discussion Forums

Stitch1404

07-05-2006, 03:54 PM

I rented out points for someone around April 15th. We agreed on half at the time the renter varified the reservation with DVC and half when I got the confirmation letter to them with final payment being no later than May 15th. A contract was sent and signed outlining these details. There was also a point in the contract that if there were any issues with late payment/insufficient funds, etc. the reservation would be immediated cancelled and no money that may have been received up to that point would be refunded. So here's what happened...

The first check was sent right on time. However, the day after I deposited it the woman emailed me saying there had been a banking error and a check that was supposed to be deposited in one of her accounts was deposited in the wrong one. Therefore she was afraid the check would bounce. It did and a couple of days later I got the check back in the mail and was charged a $10 fee from my bank. I talked with her and she explained what happened and was extrememly apologetic. So I figured I wouldn't cancel the reservation but asked that she send final payment for the full amount immediately. It seemed like an error on the part of her bank so I gave her the benefit of the doubt.

A few weeks later I get a check for half the amount plus the $10 fee my bank charged me (which I thought was thoughtful of her). But it is not the check for the full amount as we had discussed. I contact her and it turns out her fiance was paying for half and she was paying for half so only her check came. They mailed them from 2 different addresses all within the New Orleans area so we figure it is just a post hurricane mailing issue and the second check should be coming soon.

I wait 3 weeks for the second check. It hasn't come yet. I contacted her once again last Saturday and she says she'll put a stop on the first check and they'll try again. That was about a week and a half ago and still no second check. I have emailed her to ask if it was sent and gotten no reply. I even offered to use paypal for the final payment just so this could all be over with.

So here it is, July 5th when we agreed on final payment by May 15th and I still only have half the payment. I don't know what to do. It doesn't seem like this woman is being uncooperative, it really just seems she has had a chain of bad luck with her bank and the mail! How long do I give it before I cancel her reservation? Do I keep the deposit? I am really just so tired of waiting for this check but this reservation is for this woman's honeymoon and I don't want to ruin that for her. But at the same time she hasn't upheld the contract. Please advise, any help would be greatly appreciated!

flechette

07-05-2006, 04:05 PM

Stitch1404

07-05-2006, 04:07 PM

When is the reservation for?

If it's for this month then I'd say one more email stating you're canceling w/in 48 hours unless she contacts you - if it's an Aug or later reservation then I'd say email and say cancellation on July 20th unless she contacts you.

Good luck - given this is a honeymoon things could just be overwhelming her a bit right :confused3

Thanks for the quick reply. The reservation is for October. Yes, this is exactly why I haven't cancelled yet, I am sure she is super busy and I want to give her a chance to get back to me.

mikesmom

07-05-2006, 05:05 PM

You are beyond patient. This is not 6 days,this is 6 weeks! This is not a strain of bad luck, this is a no pay situation. Maybe on the part of the fiance instead of her, but the result is you have not been paid. Tell them to send you a money order for the total amount and send it Fedex so you can have a tracking number.

Dean

07-05-2006, 05:43 PM

Obviously your best scenario is to get full payment and they get the reservation. I trust you deposited the half plus $10 and it went through. You need to look at where you'll be with these points if you cancel and what your options are to re-rent it. Once you have analyzed that info, you'll know what you NEED to do. If you can wait until just before the 30 days without penalty, no reason not to. You could always offer it for rent while in the process of waiting. You've done your part so if they lose, they lose. Give them a final deadline of around 7 days or so.

paults

07-05-2006, 06:14 PM

Thanks for the quick reply. The reservation is for October. Yes, this is exactly why I haven't cancelled yet, I am sure she is super busy and I want to give her a chance to get back to me.

her being super busy has nothing to do with this ressie. you waited 6 wks now and nothing. give her 10 days and re - :) rent.

Stitch1404

07-05-2006, 06:53 PM

I think I am a push over. I like the idea of giving her an ultimatim so she knows I'm serious. We leave for Old Key West on the 22nd and this needs to all be over by then so I may tell her I am cancelling on the 15th. That will be 2 months after what we set as the deadline and what the contract states. Even if she's busy planning a wedding she should have found the time to drive the check up here by then!

Also, these are not borrowed points or anything, so if I have to cancel I will probably just bank them. We were renting to pay off a Disney Cruise and we've got enough money to pay it off even if this reservation is cancelling. On a random side note, can I still bank these points if my use year is December? If not then we have a problem.

Cruelladeville

07-05-2006, 07:21 PM

Yes, you can still bank your points. You need to tell your renter that either they send you a check by Fed ex( or PayPal) or the reservation will be cancelled after 7 days, with no refund of any money paid. Don't be nice, now, you've been nice for two months, and it got you nowhere, so it's time to get tough. My guess is that you will quickly get your money, but if you don't, follow through! :drive:

JimMIA

07-05-2006, 07:37 PM

On a random side note, can I still bank these points if my use year is December? If not then we have a problem.
This is most certainly NOT a "random side note!" This is a basic fundamental that you need to clearly understand prior to entering into a rental agreement.
The answer is: a) maybe yes, b) maybe no, or c) maybe some of the points can be banked. You are already past your 100% banking deadline, so the answer depends on how many points you are talking about, what percentage they make up of your overall allotment, and what you've banked to date. My suggestion is that you go look that up real quick so you know where you stand.

wanna-b-Tink

07-05-2006, 07:44 PM

My husband went through a similar situation recently with his business, kind of in reverse. A lady sold him a product ($850.00). He sent the money pay pal. She contacted him and said she was pregnant and couldn't get it shipped, could he wait a month or so until she could physically handle it. He agreed. The months passed...he was patient... He contacted her a few more times and she always had an excuse. She then stopped answering his calls. So, after 6 months, he called the police in her town, told them the situation, and they called her. She called him and said it would be shipped immediately. Had she not, she would have been sued, and from the way the police jumped in to help us, we imagine there may have been more to her that was known "locally".
She had wonderful excuses, but what it boiled down to was that the contract was not being upheld on her end, even though my husband had been MORE than obliging. Much more than I would have.
I guess, what I'm thinking is that you don't know this person from Adam, you don't know if they are really getting married, you really don't know anything. They could be scamming you big time. I'd do the 48 hour pay pal ultimatum, and then if the money wasn't there in that length of time, I'd stick to what the contract said. If she is just having a stressful time, she should realize she is indebted to you and the debt is due. She probably would not string along other creditors like this if her credit rating would be affected.

bugsbenberkles

07-05-2006, 08:13 PM

I have rented 3 times and am working on my fourth. The DVC members I have worked with have always been wonderful and helpful!

This renter has no business renting from DVC members if she cannot take care of this problem immediately. Don't feel bad about giving a deadline; the Paypal with a 48 hour business day deadline is more than adequate. You have been more than patient.

Just wanted to let you know that renters truly appreciate the opportunity to stay in great resorts--sorry you had to run into a bad apple.
:disrocks:

Stitch1404

07-05-2006, 08:27 PM

This is most certainly NOT a "random side note!" This is a basic fundamental that you need to clearly understand prior to entering into a rental agreement.
The answer is: a) maybe yes, b) maybe no, or c) maybe some of the points can be banked. You are already past your 100% banking deadline, so the answer depends on how many points you are talking about, what percentage they make up of your overall allotment, and what you've banked to date. My suggestion is that you go look that up real quick so you know where you stand.

Wow, calm down. I just called it a random side note because this thread was about a renter, not banking points. I don't think I will need to bank them, I think I will find a way to use them! :teeth:

CarolMN

07-05-2006, 08:42 PM

Another thread to bookmark - renting points is not always as easy as one might think from reading these boards!

If I were in that situation, I would have told the woman after she failed to send me the full payment after the "banking error" that it would be better for all concerned if she found someone else to work with. I would have returned the check minus the $10 as a sign of my "good faith" and then either banked or rented to someone else.

At this point, I agree with those who say to give her a final deadline for the money to be "in your hands". If it's not, cancel the reservation, bank the points & after her check clears, return her money minus the $10 (assuming you want to give her the benefit of the doubt re the banking problem, busy over the wedding stuff and New Orleans factor. I probably would return money in this situation since you are not going to actually lose any $$ or points on this transaction).

Sometimes it's so hard not to take on other people's problems, but in my experience, you can get yourself in lots more trouble trying to be helpful and nice than you can by being business like and professional. This is especially true if your are dealing with $$.

Hope it all works out for you -

Deb & Bill

07-05-2006, 08:54 PM

Katrina has been gone for more than 10 months. They have been delivering mail and conducting business in many parts of New Orleans for many months. Give her 48 hours and cancel or sell the reservation. There are lots of members on the waitlist for October and many more wanting in. This should be considered like a Priceline resevation - no cancellation, no refunds.

J and R's mom

07-06-2006, 01:10 AM

So here's what happened...the woman emailed me saying there had been a banking error and a check that was supposed to be deposited in one of her accounts was deposited in the wrong one. Therefore she was afraid the check would bounce. It did...I talked with her and she explained what happened and was extrememly apologetic...A few weeks later I get a check for half the amount plus the $10 fee my bank charged me (which I thought was thoughtful of her). But it is not the check for the full amount as we had discussed. I contact her and it turns out her fiance was paying for half and she was paying for half so only her check came. They mailed them from 2 different addresses all within the New Orleans area so we figure it is just a post hurricane mailing issue and the second check should be coming soon....I wait 3 weeks for the second check. It hasn't come yet. I contacted her once again last Saturday and she says she'll put a stop on the first check and they'll try again. That was about a week and a half ago and still no second check. I have emailed her to ask if it was sent and gotten no reply. I even offered to use paypal for the final payment just so this could all be over with....
While in college I worked as a customer service rep (a fancy name for collections) for a major automotive company. EVERYTHING (minus Katrina--but there was ALWAYS something major to blame) you have mentioned above is what I heard on a daily basis. I recognized the scam the moment I read started reading the parts above, but that's because I worked in this field for a year. As soon as they call/e-mail saying that their paycheck (or whatever funds they're supposedly getting) was put in the wrong account and that your check will most likely bounce, you know the game is about to begin. Then they call with a story about someone else not holding up to their end of the bargin. And then they ignore you all together. And then it's time to take back what's yours.

Give her a deadline and then cancel.

It's amazing how fast we'd get paid once we went out to repo a car.

Good luck.

JimMIA

07-06-2006, 07:01 AM

Wow, calm down. I just called it a random side note because this thread was about a renter, not banking points. I don't think I will need to bank them, I think I will find a way to use them! :teeth:
Actually, you are the one who said: can I still bank these points if my use year is December? If not then we have a problem. I'm just the one pointing out that you should have known the answer to that question before you got involved in a rental arrangement.

I wouldn't waste any more time on this person. You did your part -- she didn't do her's. She's a lot more trouble than she's worth, and that's not going to change in the unlikely event that you get all of the money.

You're entitled to keep her deposit, but I wouldn't. I'd cancel and send her money back.

Good luck.

browniemtb

07-06-2006, 07:57 AM

48 Hours via paypal or cancell the ressie. If you have there email address send them a Paypal invoice with 48 hrs to pay. Everyone now a days has a credit card. If you do use paypal add 3% to cover fees. This is ridiculous, you held up your end and now you are dealing with deadlines for banking. One last shot and then keep the deposit and go on with cancelling. I went through the same thing with no money coming and the renter saying that she is waiting for a check from her sister in law for only half the depoist...not even the full amount. After 6 weeks of not even a deposit I cancelled the reservation.....and notified her as such. 2 days later I get a FedEx with a check for the deposit which I just sent right back unopened. Funny thing, the FedEx package was dated the same day as my email explaining the
cancellation. She ended up getting mad at me........but yet I was more than patient with her. As most have said to me, move on, there are plenty of great renters out there that do not play games.
Brownie

Stitch1404

07-06-2006, 02:17 PM

Alright, the email has been sent. She has until July 15th. Let's see if she sends it now...

Thanks for all the suggestions. I guess I just wanted to hear other people tell me that I was being reasonable and not a witch in threatening to cancel her reservation.

JimMIA

07-06-2006, 04:24 PM

You've been WAY more than reasonable.

She's the one who has neither kept her word nor been reasonable. Now it's her choice. Whatever happens, she chose to have it happen.

Stitch1404

07-06-2006, 05:05 PM

Well, I sent her about 6 emails over the past week asking her if she was going to pay. Then I send this email today telling her she has until the 15th. She didn't respond to any of those emails but when I sent this one I got a reply in less than 2 hours!! She says the check is in fact in the mail. Hope it comes...

CarolMN

07-06-2006, 05:55 PM

Stitch1404

07-06-2006, 06:06 PM

I hope it comes, too - I'm sure we all do!

You do realize that you are now obligated to tell us how this all turns out, right? ;) :teeth: Even those who have not posted are undoubtedly wondering, LOL.

Best wishes -

Haha, of course I will update everyone! Hopefully it will be before the 15th to say that I received payment, but it could go the other way too. I just think it's sad that it had to come to this. I mean why did I have to email this woman threatening to cancel her reservation just to get her to reply to me? I just wish it would have worked out better, but if this was the only way to get a response I guess it was the only thing I could do.

Deb & Bill

07-06-2006, 06:56 PM

When peopke make a reservation from Disney, Disney gives them "X" many days to make a payment. If Disney doesn't get the money on time, they cancel the reservation. Why should you be any different?

zoomsharedisney

07-06-2006, 07:01 PM

You have been very patient thoughout this whole ordeal but this is what you need to do IMO.

You need to write the woman a letter with every detail you can imagine including initial contact, agreements, payment, dates the check was sent, date the check was received, any phone conversations you can remember, anything and everything you can think of - include it. Send the letter via the post office with a signature confirmation and returned receipt. In the letter you give her a time period (3 days) to get the final payment to you from the date that she received the letter. If no payment is received then cancel it.

She has already broken her end of the deal, but so have you. Set your boundary and stick to it. I've been in this boat one time and learned to stick with my rules.

Good luck with all,
Zoomshare

getgill

07-07-2006, 10:33 PM

You have been MORE than patient. What is a contract for if both parties don't follow it?? I would not have been so nice - I would have booted her at strike 2! Please keep us posted on if she pays!

WebmasterDoc

07-07-2006, 10:46 PM

As the member making the reservation (and the rules for the rental), no one can take advantage of you unless you allow it to happen.

If your renter has not lived up to the contract you provided, you have no one to blame but yourself if you don;t follow thru with the consequences spelled out in your contract.

Your renter has nothing to gain and everything to lose if they CHOOSE to violate the terms of your contract.

Please keep us posted with any updates!

kimberh

07-07-2006, 11:57 PM

I do want to hear how this all comes out. I think it's a shame that the Bride is paying for the Honeymoon, isn't this the Groom's responsibility? Where is he in all of this or maybe I am "old Fashioned"

Stitch1404

07-12-2006, 06:14 PM

Alright, well, it's all over...3 days before the deadline.

She sent the check Wednesday of last week. So it's been exactly a week and it never came. She listed me all the things that have gotten lost in the mail lately. She said since the hurricane mail service has been horrible, things are getting lost left and right. I believe her.

So I sent her a Paypal invoice yesterday afternoon and by this morning I had my money. So this was the best possible outcome, I got my money, she kept her reservation, everyone's happy. I'm glad this was the outcome.

I just want to say a couple of things about renting after all this...

1.) Always use a contract. I used a contract with all my rentals. It's easy to print one off of the DIS and when I had this problem I was able to reference the contract and she couldn't argue with me. Also, if I had to cancel the reservation hopefully the contract would have held up if she had complained.

2.) Yes, I will rent again. I won't bore you with the numbers, but we rented to pay for a Disney Mediterranean cruise. In renting and not using points to pay for 2 people we saved $2,000 and 400 points. I rented to 14 people. A little trouble with one renter will not persuade me not to rent again. People do make it out to be easier than it is, but it is totally worth it.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Glad I could report the happy ending!

JimMIA

07-12-2006, 06:36 PM

Congratulations and I'm glad it turned out well for both of you.

Deb & Bill

07-12-2006, 06:37 PM

All those checks she has floating around in the mail. Is she sure she can really afford it???? I hope you really already have your money in hand from Paypal.

Stitch1404

07-12-2006, 06:52 PM

All those checks she has floating around in the mail. Is she sure she can really afford it???? I hope you really already have your money in hand from Paypal.

She has put stops on both of the checks. I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying that because she wrote 2 checks that didn't come she can't afford the rental? I'm not trying to argue, I really just don't understand what you're saying.

Deb & Bill

07-12-2006, 07:05 PM

All I am saying is that I hope you got your money from Paypal already. I find it very unlikely that two checks were "lost in the mail".

kimberh

07-12-2006, 08:40 PM

Dean

07-13-2006, 09:39 AM

MissD

07-13-2006, 12:14 PM

How could she get the money back from Paypal if he has followed through with his end of the transaction? I know they have a resolutution center but one of the parties has to not hold up o their end of the agreement.

Kim

Sometimes it can be a problem with actual proof that a 'seller' upheld their end. Some things are much harder to prove to Paypal's satisfaction than others, and the burden falls to the 'seller' in providing proof.

A 'buyer' can claim non-delivery of what they paid for, and Paypal can (and will) freeze that money while they investigate, which can take weeks.

Even when there is valid proof of delivery, the money will still be held/frozen while the investigation is completed. A credit card chargeback is a possibility for many, many months after a transaction. If the money has been withdrawn from the paypal account, they will still use their rights of recourse to get the money back from the 'seller'.

Stitch1404

07-13-2006, 01:17 PM

Cruelladeville

07-13-2006, 02:02 PM

I'm so glad this worked out for you! :) I think you had the renter from HELL on this. I have rented off and on for 4 years, and I have NEVER had a situation like this! The worst I had was to threaten to cancel a ressie if payment wasn't sent, and then send an email that I was about to follow thru, and paypal had a payment about 30 minutes later! :teeth: Otherwise, my renters have been wonderful, even the ones from overseas(I thought that could have been a problem, but it wasn't) :love:

MissD

07-13-2006, 06:46 PM

Okay, well, she paid me on PayPal using an e-check. That took a couple of days to verify with her bank. Then I transfered the money she paid me into my bank account directly through PayPal. I am looking at my bank statement online right now and the money is there. It has been transferred. So I guess it sounds like a lot could have gone wrong, but everything is fine.

Hope everything stays just as smooth as it is now :thumbsup2

Have a great time on your trips! :banana:

debbiepump

07-13-2006, 07:52 PM

You're being too nice! I've never rented nor transferred any of my points, but I'd love to see a poll of folks who've had no issues renting out their points and/or issues.

Some of the biggest crooks around are the 'nicest' ones. Cut your losses..

CarolA

07-13-2006, 08:33 PM

MissD

07-14-2006, 07:04 AM

And if Paypal gets stiffed they come after the person they GAVE the money too. I won't use them as I find their idea of "customer service" to be horrible. It's not about doing the RIGHT thing with them...

That was my concern for the OP. With Paypal, getting the money to your bank account is one thing. Keeping it is another. There are too many instances when Paypal will come after that money at a later date--Paypal getting stiffed, a chargeback, a bogus claim by the sender-- and that was what I was trying to say. It's happened to me (but not on anything to do with DVC or points-just eBay stuff), and that's why I was expressing my concern. Getting the funds from Paypal into your hand (or bank account) is not always the happy ending we hope for in any situation.

I hope this is not one of the 'unhappy' situations and that the OP's experience will remain a positive one--sending pixie dust on that. :wizard:

kimberh

07-14-2006, 12:07 PM

will Disney show proof that they stayed on property? Does the contract hold up where it says no refunds?

MissD

07-14-2006, 01:18 PM

will Disney show proof that they stayed on property? Does the contract hold up where it says no refunds?

I'm not sure how helpful Disney would be in a Paypal dispute. While a seller's 'no refunds' contract may end up prevailing ( I would hope) in a Paypal investigation, the investigation itself is governed by the Paypal user agreement. During any investigation, both parties would need to provide documentation and proof to Paypal to substantiate their position. That's where the contract would come in, but this contract may have already been modified by the fact that the renter hadn't met the terms in the first place. In this instance, there is a really 'gray' area as to what sort of transaction this is-whether intangible or tangible. Are points tangible? Is the reservation?

While I think (and I'm no expert, so this JMHO) that any renter would have a hard time 'winning' a complaint in this situation, but they still have up till 45 days after sending money to file a complaint. They can claim non-receipt of the ressie info on day 44. While that could be totally false, the reality is that Paypal will freeze the funds involved while investigating, and if the funds are not in the paypal account, they (Paypal) will utilize their rights of recourse through the user's backup funding source. That can mean weeks of having your money tied up.

Paypal is not always one's 'pal'

Again, I am still sending pixie dust that this all works out beautifully :wizard:

Stitch1404

07-14-2006, 02:38 PM

You people have me scared out of my mind now. I thought this was all over.

CRSNDSNY

07-14-2006, 03:31 PM

Okay, well, she paid me on PayPal using an e-check. That took a couple of days to verify with her bank. Then I transfered the money she paid me into my bank account directly through PayPal. I am looking at my bank statement online right now and the money is there. It has been transferred. So I guess it sounds like a lot could have gone wrong, but everything is fine.
That surely is a huge relief. I'd be very weary about the money not showing up until I saw it for sure in my own personal account.

I'm glad you got what you needed...afterall, perhaps this bit of stress is worth the Med cruise you'll be going on! Glad you got your money!

MissD

07-14-2006, 09:04 PM

You people have me scared out of my mind now. I thought this was all over.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I can tell you that I wasn't trying to scare you at all. I hope and pray it all works out exactly as planned. It just that sometimes working with payments through Paypal are not as easy as we'd like to hope.

I just think it's always a good idea to know what might happen in a worst case scenario, so that you can have all your ducks in a row. It's better to be prepared for what probably won't happen instead of being blindsided at some point. As I said, Paypal isn't always as easy as we'd like, and we are own best ally.

Pixie dust again... :wizard:

Sammie

07-14-2006, 09:10 PM

And if Paypal gets stiffed they come after the person they GAVE the money too. I won't use them as I find their idea of "customer service" to be horrible. It's not about doing the RIGHT thing with them...

Totally agree. I was a victim of identity theft and someone opened a PayPal account in my name and address, email address etc and they were horrible about it to me. The victim. They acted like I had done something wrong. I will never have an account with them or do business with them. They are useless if there is a problem.