You're not GAY... you're NUTZ!

[wallyb]

Pentagon Lists Homosexuality as Disorder :crazy:
A Pentagon document classifies homosexuality as a mental disorder, decades after mental health experts abandoned that position.
The document outlines retirement or other discharge policies for service members with physical disabilities, and in a section on defects lists homosexuality alongside mental retardation and personality disorders.

Okay, so that explains it ... I am nutz :upsidedow
Thanks uncle Sam.

[Tissa]

So does that mean with special medication and therapy you could become normal like the rest of us straight people :crazy:
I just don't see how being attracted to someone of the same sex means you must have a mental disorder, then again people can be so closed minded that they really believe anyone that doesn't think like them needs to ride the little yellow school bus. :confused3

[Sonno]

Do you actually think it is "normal"?

Personally, I would no sooner celebrate homosexuality than I would alcoholism. I've never heard of "alcoholic pride", or "alcoholic day parades".

It's not something to be celebrated, it's something to be treated. I'm glad people are finally catching on.

[Joyful19]

I suppose there has to be one in every crowd.
People do not ask to be born the way they are and for someone to believe they are not "normal" is insane.
Name one normal person in this world, the only name you could come up with would be your own! We are all God's children and we are the way He intended us to be and Yes, we should celebrate all our differences!

[mimimom]

unfortunately there is always more than one in every crowd. My son came out to us in February. He is still the wonderful young man he was before that time. Yes I had a hard time absorbing it(even though we had suspected he was for a while)We love him with all of our being. He even says to us" I didnt ask to like boys" I am just glad we are the type of parents who are open and accepting so my son doesnt have to hide in shame. Thanks for listening Mimimom

[Sonno]

I suppose there has to be one in every crowd.
People do not ask to be born the way they are and for someone to believe they are not "normal" is insane.
Name one normal person in this world, the only name you could come up with would be your own! We are all God's children and we are the way He intended us to be and Yes, we should celebrate all our differences!

There are a lot more than one. Thankfully.

God also makes people with Autism. Do autistic people "celebrate" their differences? I'm going to guess no. Do doctors and scientists just label them as "Autistic" and let them be to their own? Again, I'm going to guess no. They work on figuring out ways to treat and, maybe someday, cure it.

It's the same thing.

I don't hate gays and I'm not a gay basher. I just call things as I see it. Nothing more.

[coasterj]

well if u look at it that way.... why arent the republicans/conservatives trying to outlaw autism? the answer to that is easy they are distracting us from the war they have totally messed up. gays, like me, are not crazy, politics are
just my thoughts, sorry not meant to offend

[Thizz]

There are a lot more than one. Thankfully.

God also makes people with Autism. Do autistic people "celebrate" their differences? I'm going to guess no. Do doctors and scientists just label them as "Autistic" and let them be to their own? Again, I'm going to guess no. They work on figuring out ways to treat and, maybe someday, cure it.

It's the same thing.

I don't hate gays and I'm not a gay basher. I just call things as I see it. Nothing more.
I respect the fact that you can come to a gay board and say that. I don't, however, respect your position.

Being gay is not to be attributed to a chemical imbalance in one's brain. A person is gay, or labeled so, because their heart, their soul if you wish, tells them that this is way that they are meant to be. I cahllenge any scientist to discover and imbalance and create a medication. Until then, I see gays as i see people of different ethnicities.

[Nisa]

Not sure why someone who feels like you do is perusing the Gay & Lesbian thread?

Anyway....can I get a handicapped tag for my car now?

Go 'Canes!!!! :dancer:

[Sonno]

Not sure why someone who feels like you do is perusing the Gay & Lesbian thread?

Anyway....can I get a handicapped tag for my car now?

Go 'Canes!!!! :dancer:

Yep, you're right. No sense in carrying on a civil discussion with other human beings about a point we disagree on. I guess I'll be going now.

Peace out.

[gppnj]

I love how anti-gay people always say that being gay isn't "normal."

This is the reality: Based on all current and historical information available, it is normal for most people to be straight and some people to be gay.

[mickeyfan1]

Say, if Gayness can be cured, then it only stands to reason that straightness can be also.

Sonno, I can not agree with you, however it is always good to have differing opinions. Yes, yours will be very unpopular here. But you are entitled to it. I believe that if you came to this board looking to rile people up, you will be disappointed. I have never had the opportunity to talk with a group of people more civil and polite than the posters that frequent this thread. Be they gay, straight, bi, or any other way of description, it matters not.


Please, feel free to come here and read and post. This is an open forum and most all are welcome. I say most all because those who come here merely to spout hatred and ignorance will be treated as they are on any other DIS forum.

[bubie2.5]

Anyway....can I get a handicapped tag for my car now?

I was thinking the same thing.

[joestv]

Not sure why someone who feels like you do is perusing the Gay & Lesbian thread?

Anyway....can I get a handicapped tag for my car now?

Go 'Canes!!!! :dancer:


Yes, I was kind of wondering the same thing. It's not like I go on the homophobic board and post. :confused3

[Nisa]

Exactly!! I hope everyone has a great evening!!

[Saxton]

Pentagon Lists Homosexuality as Disorder :crazy:
A Pentagon document classifies homosexuality as a mental disorder, decades after mental health experts abandoned that position.
The document outlines retirement or other discharge policies for service members with physical disabilities, and in a section on defects lists homosexuality alongside mental retardation and personality disorders.

Okay, so that explains it ... I am nutz :upsidedow
Thanks uncle Sam.

I don't want a handicapped tag for my car - I want an early retirement!! I don't work for the military but I do work for another section of the government and I would be more than happy to say that I'm crazy if I get to retire early and travel. :goodvibes

[RickinNYC]

Funny, I always did think "pentagon" sounded like a psych med.

"Honey, why are the hippos grazing in the backyard?"

"You didn't take your pentagon today did you sweetie?"

"Sorry, I thought they were tic tacs and gave them to the dog."

[wallyb]

Rick ... you're nutz!

[wallyb]

Or gay!

[wallyb]

Not sure why someone who feels like you do is perusing the Gay & Lesbian thread?

Anyway....can I get a handicapped tag for my car now?

Go 'Canes!!!! :dancer:

I too thought it seemed a bit inflammatory. :stir: :stir: :stir:
I declined to reply straightaway for fear I would flame out and burst a vein. I need to keep it cool. Don’t want extra meds now that I’m mentally ill I fear an interaction.

[Doctor Pedantic]

Okay, here's a thought. Under the Americans With Disabilities Act, someone who suffers from a physical or mental disability can't just be fired because of that; instead, "reasonable accommodations" have to be made so that the disabled person can perform his or her job functions. So if the military classifies homosexuality as a mental illness, how can it enforce "don't ask, don't tell" without running afoul of the ADA? I actually don't know if the ADA even applies to the government, but if it does, this seems to present a fascinating dilemma.

Or maybe I'm just crazy..... :joker:

[olbear]

Yes, I was kind of wondering the same thing. It's not like I go on the homophobic board and post. :confused3


Hi there. I appreciate the fact that so many have allowed this person to state their feelings on this thread. I too have been welcomed and treated very nicely in this forum, even though I agree to disagree in regards to homosexuality and the like.

That being said, I must say, I do not recall anyone straight being a name caller. If they did, I've missed it, and I read this forum often. The sad fact is I have seen many of the gay community on the forum, dropping the name of homophobic, and biggot amongst others as well. Of which I consider myself neither. I take it as very hurtful and mean.

I just wanted to say, I wish this would stop.

Thanks for the time.
Blessings,
Winnie

[donald...really]

Sorry Olbear, but Sonno called gay and lesbians abnormal and in need of treatment and a cure, and then claims he is here for a civil discussion and plays the victim. He sounds kind of homophobic to me.

[olbear]

Yeah, I do understand your point. However, I hate it when some feel it needed to resort to name calling. It usually just esculates circumstances and then it gets out of control ugly and hurtful. I hate it when that happens,
But yes, I can understand your point.

Blessings,
Winnie

PS: I absolutely love your babies!! too cute!!

[DVC~OKW~96]

Stating that someone is coming across as homophobic, or has made a homophobic statement is not name calling. Calling someone a blasted homophobe is name calling and serves no legitimate purpose.

Nor does stating that someone's inability to be like another person is a handicap serve any legitimate purpose. Being gay or lesbian is not a handicap any more than having red hair, blue eyes, or narrow feet.

I disagree. I do not respect someone coming to any forum to make their disapproval of the posters there known.

I do not respect someone coming here and saying they find homosexuality a mental illness or any other form of abnormality.

I would not respect someone making similar statements about any ethnic group.

People have a right to their own opinion? Ayuh. But I have a right not to be subjected to those opinions when they are directed toward my group in a manner that is painful.

Calling someone, anyone abnormal is painful.

If you do not accept homosexuality as a viable and yes, normal way of life, then don't associate yourself with it. You are not going to be able to change that reality any more than you can change the color of my skin. It just is.

[discernment]

I was invited to engage in discussion by Rick.

1. I agree with the Pentagon and the APA before they were pressured politcally to change their position on homosexuality.
2. Homosexuality is a choice. You can not point to any piece of medical or scientific evidence that proves the theory of homosexuality being inborn. There is no "gay" gene
3. There are recovering homosexuals out there that have turned away from their previous choice.
4. As I stated on a previous thread, the gay rights movement is also helping along the cause of homosexual groups such as NAMBLA to further their agenda. I find homosexuality and pedophilia both to be abnormal, deviant sexual behaviors.
5. I agree with previous people on this thread that no honest discourse can be between the two sides on this issue because in this PC world if you speak out against homosexuality you are immediately labeled a homophobe, bigot, clansman, part of sick groups like godhatesfags.com as I was called in another thread. I will probably getted banned for even posting on this thread even at Rick's request.
6. I believe that the gay agenda has been purposely forwarded by the concept of incrementalism.

As in other societied, i believe that all sexual deviancy, hetero, homosexual and otherwise will eventually lead to the decay of our culture.

[DVC~OKW~96]

And your position does not make you right, it just makes it your position.

You have every right to cling to your opinion. I have every right to disregard it and find it offensive.

I've wasted enough time on this. I learned long ago that any legitimate fear can be educated away. Not every fear is legitimate.

Carry on.

[Thizz]

I was invited to engage in discussion by Rick.

1. I agree with the Pentagon and the APA before they were pressured politcally to change their position on homosexuality.
2. Homosexuality is a choice. You can not point to any piece of medical or scientific evidence that proves the theory of homosexuality being inborn. There is no "gay" gene
3. There are recovering homosexuals out there that have turned away from their previous choice.
4. As I stated on a previous thread, the gay rights movement is also helping along the cause of homosexual groups such as NAMBLA to further their agenda. I find homosexuality and pedophilia both to be abnormal, deviant sexual behaviors.
5. I agree with previous people on this thread that no honest discourse can be between the two sides on this issue because in this PC world if you speak out against homosexuality you are immediately labeled a homophobe, bigot, clansman, part of sick groups like godhatesfags.com as I was called in another thread. I will probably getted banned for even posting on this thread even at Rick's request.
6. I believe that the gay agenda has been purposely forwarded by the concept of incrementalism.

As in other societied, i believe that all sexual deviancy, hetero, homosexual and otherwise will eventually lead to the decay of our culture.

As a straight person who believes in the equality of man, I cannot understand your position. Why is it so wrong to be gay?? If you want to back it up with biblical verses, i wish you good luck, because you won't find any. If it is about this idea of abnormality, thats just ridiculous. The reason we see heterosexuality as the norm, is just a product of our enviroment. Sometime in history, a person decided to opprose the idea of homosexuality, and it stuck. It took one person to create this absurd idea, and now legions of people follow it. The same idea of abnormality fueled institutions like slavery and segregation. Somewhere along the line, somebody let it be know that dark skin was a sign of inferiority, and we all know what followed. Do you oppose blacks as well? I mean, their ancestors had a choice to stay in Africa or migrate north, and they stayed in Africa and developed dark skin.

[LuluLovesDisney]

I was invited to engage in discussion by Rick.

1. I agree with the Pentagon and the APA before they were pressured politcally to change their position on homosexuality.
2. Homosexuality is a choice. You can not point to any piece of medical or scientific evidence that proves the theory of homosexuality being inborn. There is no "gay" gene
3. There are recovering homosexuals out there that have turned away from their previous choice.
4. As I stated on a previous thread, the gay rights movement is also helping along the cause of homosexual groups such as NAMBLA to further their agenda. I find homosexuality and pedophilia both to be abnormal, deviant sexual behaviors.
5. I agree with previous people on this thread that no honest discourse can be between the two sides on this issue because in this PC world if you speak out against homosexuality you are immediately labeled a homophobe, bigot, clansman, part of sick groups like godhatesfags.com as I was called in another thread. I will probably getted banned for even posting on this thread even at Rick's request.
6. I believe that the gay agenda has been purposely forwarded by the concept of incrementalism.

As in other societied, i believe that all sexual deviancy, hetero, homosexual and otherwise will eventually lead to the decay of our culture.


I think I am a fitting person to respond to you because I am very religious, overly traditional, etc. I even agree with part of your last statement that sexual deviancy will lead (let's be honest, it's happening now) to the decay of our culture. However, I do not think that homosexuality is deviant sexual behavior.

Many homosexuals are stereotyped as promiscuous on television, etc. and I think many people believe that. They see the clubbing lifestyle and think most homosexuals are like that, when I don't think they are. I knew a gay couple who was monogamous for 20 years until the death of one of them. They were in love, not deviants.

Sexual deviants are the 22 year old "man" that is fathering a child with my 16 year old student. They are the child abusers, molestors, the parents who allow their children to be exposed to inappropriate things, not just on tv but in real life, and those who use sex to hurt others instead of expressing love.

Sexual deviants who need treatment are those who have been abused and are acting out in response, those girls (this breaks my heart as I see it every day) who are extremely promiscuous because they think that's all they can be good at or because they're seeking love/attention. They've seen their mothers have five kids with five different men and they step into that role, too. I've seen too many tears from teen moms or teens with STD's. They need to be taught they're worth more than that.

They guy who lies to a girl to get her in bed and then calls her names the next week in school- he's a deviant- not the gay student who was drying her tears.

Sexual deviants can be homosexual or heterosexual, but sexual expression isn't deviant just because of the gender of the partners. To me it all comes down to the people involved and whether they're giving themselves to another or taking something away, whether they're expressing love or trying to hurt someone.

This world needs love so badly, how can we possibly put down anyone who's in love? It makes me so happy to see a couple together, really being there for each other, I don't care about their demographics.

[discernment]

Here is another bad analogy. Comparing the gay rights issue to the civil rights movement. It all comes down to choice. One group had a choice the other did not.

Thanks, i forgot to add that to my initial list of why we cant have a debate. Someone will also always say that you dont like African Americans as well.

[DisneyDotty]

Here is another bad analogy. Comparing the gay rights issue to the civil rights movement. It all comes down to choice. One group had a choice the other did not.


Clearly you don't know many homosexuals. I do. They have all struggled with coming out because they knew the ridicule, abuse, anger, hatred and violence they would expose themselves to as a result. And you think they chose this lifestyle.
Questions: Why would anyone choose to be homosexual? Did you choose to be heterosexual?
You are wrong. And I only hope that you do not hurt close friends and family members who are gay or who love someone who is gay with your hurtful and angry attitude. Because you have really hurt me, and I don't even know you! :sad1:

And why am I even getting sucked into a "it's a choice" argument? We're all HUMANS. That's all that really matters.

[Thizz]

Here is another bad analogy. Comparing the gay rights issue to the civil rights movement. It all comes down to choice. One group had a choice the other did not.

Thanks, i forgot to add that to my initial list of why we cant have a debate. Someone will also always say that you dont like African Americans as well.
So, is being straight a choice?

[Sonno]

First let me say this. If I offended anyone, I offer you my most sincere apologies, as that was not my intent.

Second, yes, I am a heterosexual male. And I am not homophobic, what do I really have to fear? I live with my Uncle Joe, and he is a homosexual. I am exposed to it daily. Many of my Uncle's gay friends are good friends of mine as well. And all of them know how I feel about homosexuality. Does that change how I interact with them and how they interact with me? Not in the least. I try to treat everyone with respect and dignity. And they do the same in return.

I've had many conversations with homosexual males about why they are gay; mostly because I was curious about their disposition. I have shared my thoughts and feelings on the matter with them, and yes, most of them respectfully disagree with me. But you know what, that's ok. Everyone has an opinion and it's their God given right to have one. I can respect that.

I can get into why I personally think homosexuality is an illness, and throw out all kinds of things to back up my argument; but I seriously doubt anyone here really wants to hear anything I have to say. I guess it's just easier to label me "another one of them homophobic *******s who'll never understand us", roll your eyes, disregard anything I have to say and flame me on the way out the door.

It's all good really. No biggie.
Take care.

[discernment]

In the natural order of the world, heterosexuality is not a choice. People are naturally born heterosexual in order to procreate.

Dotty, I am sorry but can you point to medical and/or sceintific proof that people are born gay?

I can not answer why people chose to be gay anymore than i can answer why people engage in all sorts of harmful and negative behavior.

[Thizz]

Oh, the reason why I compare them, is because their comparable. Blacks were being denied god given rights. Gays are being denied god given rights. Notice i say 'god given'. I believe in God, and believe in the equality of man. THAT is a choice. Not one liked by the church, but a choice i am proud of.

[Thizz]

In the natural order of the world, heterosexuality is not a choice. People are naturally born heterosexual in order to procreate.

Dotty, I am sorry but can you point to medical and/or sceintific proof that people are born gay?

I can not answer why people chose to be gay anymore than i can answer why people engage in all sorts of harmful and negative behavior.
NO NO NO NO NO!!!!! just because a certain part fits into another part does not mean that a man can only love a woman. Maybe men are meant supposed to procreate with women, and love men. You take a something that could just be coincidence, and make laws about it.

[discernment]

Oh, the reason why I compare them, is because their comparable. Blacks were being denied god given rights. Gays are being denied god given rights. Notice i say 'god given'. I believe in God, and believe in the equality of man. THAT is a choice. Not one liked by the church, but a choice i am proud of.

So you are going to honestly relate your struggle to the civil rights movement?

WHat choice did black people have about their race?

What exactly are you being denied? Marriage? And you think this compares to the struggle that African Americans are still facing in this country? Compares to 400 years of slavery and oppression?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/02/opinion/main1678979.shtml

http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=17265

"As an African-American I really believe that this is probably one the greatest insults you can offer to the African-American struggle," he told Baptist Press. "... It tends to minimize or even cheapen the struggle that African-Americans have experienced in this country by comparing it in this manner."

[Thizz]

So you are going to honestly relate your struggle to the civil rights movement?

WHat choice did black people have about their race?

What exactly are you being denied? Marriage? And you think this compares to the struggle that African Americans are still facing in this country? Compares to 400 years of slavery and oppression?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/02/opinion/main1678979.shtml

http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=17265

"As an African-American I really believe that this is probably one the greatest insults you can offer to the African-American struggle," he told Baptist Press. "... It tends to minimize or even cheapen the struggle that African-Americans have experienced in this country by comparing it in this manner."I'm not saying that it is on the same level, it is comparable. Like comparing Kobe Bryant to Lebron. Lebron is nowhere near his level, but I can draw comparisons. Blacks were denied everything under the sun. Denied based on something about them. Gays are denied marriage. Based on something about them. Nothing criminal, just because they are who they are.

[MrVisible]

discernment, I have cogent, coherent and well-reasoned and supported arguments for each and every one of the points you made. I'll be happy to engage in a debate on this issue. However, I would like to set up the rules of engagement first.

If you want to argue this with me, first of all I want assurance that you are capable of changing your mind on this issue. I really don't want to go through all of the research and rhetoric that this takes just to end up against the brick wall of entrenched dogma. Ask yourself if you are, in fact, able to change your opinion on this. If not, no harm done, and no words will be wasted.

Secondly, I would like you to commit to seeing this argument through to its end. It's been my experience on other message boards that once it seems that the argument is going against them, people who have opinions similar to yours tend to vanish in a puff of tautology and bluster, only to resurface and repost the same tired and debunked arguments again within weeks. Are you willing to stay until we come to some sort of resolution on this?

For my part, I will assure you that I will conduct myself politely, respectfully, and will address your points with well-reasoned arguments supported by facts. I will consider your points carefully, and be willing to change my mind if you are persuasive enough. And I will persist in this conversation until we both agree that one of us has changed our minds, or we both agree that it's a stalemate.

I'm also open to considering any rules that you would like to establish.

You seem like an intelligent person with a solid viewpoint. I think we could have a very enjoyable debate.

But I've put too much effort in the past into these conversations, only to have them come to naught. Let's you and I avoid that, and have ourselves an old-fashioned, public forum, formal debate.

What do you say?

I was invited to engage in discussion by Rick.

1. I agree with the Pentagon and the APA before they were pressured politcally to change their position on homosexuality.
2. Homosexuality is a choice. You can not point to any piece of medical or scientific evidence that proves the theory of homosexuality being inborn. There is no "gay" gene
3. There are recovering homosexuals out there that have turned away from their previous choice.
4. As I stated on a previous thread, the gay rights movement is also helping along the cause of homosexual groups such as NAMBLA to further their agenda. I find homosexuality and pedophilia both to be abnormal, deviant sexual behaviors.
5. I agree with previous people on this thread that no honest discourse can be between the two sides on this issue because in this PC world if you speak out against homosexuality you are immediately labeled a homophobe, bigot, clansman, part of sick groups like godhatesfags.com as I was called in another thread. I will probably getted banned for even posting on this thread even at Rick's request.
6. I believe that the gay agenda has been purposely forwarded by the concept of incrementalism.

As in other societied, i believe that all sexual deviancy, hetero, homosexual and otherwise will eventually lead to the decay of our culture.

[Sonno]

discernment, I have cogent, coherent and well-reasoned and supported arguments for each and every one of the points you made. I'll be happy to engage in a debate on this issue. However, I would like to set up the rules of engagement first.

If you want to argue this with me, first of all I want assurance that you are capable of changing your mind on this issue. I really don't want to go through all of the research and rhetoric that this takes just to end up against the brick wall of entrenched dogma. Ask yourself if you are, in fact, able to change your opinion on this. If not, no harm done, and no words will be wasted.

Secondly, I would like you to commit to seeing this argument through to its end. It's been my experience on other message boards that once it seems that the argument is going against them, people who have opinions similar to yours tend to vanish in a puff of tautology and bluster, only to resurface and repost the same tired and debunked arguments again within weeks. Are you willing to stay until we come to some sort of resolution on this?

For my part, I will assure you that I will conduct myself politely, respectfully, and will address your points with well-reasoned arguments supported by facts. I will consider your points carefully, and be willing to change my mind if you are persuasive enough. And I will persist in this conversation until we both agree that one of us has changed our minds, or we both agree that it's a stalemate.

I'm also open to considering any rules that you would like to establish.

You seem like an intelligent person with a solid viewpoint. I think we could have a very enjoyable debate.

But I've put too much effort in the past into these conversations, only to have them come to naught. Let's you and I avoid that, and have ourselves an old-fashioned, public forum, formal debate.

What do you say?

If he doesn't jump in I'd be more than happy to.

[olbear]

[QUOTE=MrVisible]discernment,
If you want to argue this with me, first of all I want assurance that you are capable of changing your mind on this issue.

************************************************** *****
I am pretty sure that this is not going to happen. For the same reason it would not happen with me.

An opinion can be changed, but not a conviction. I am sure the dicernment feels as I do that we both have convictions in regards to homosexuality. They are not merely opinions.

And YES, there are scriptures that pertain to homosexuality being a sin. If not then I guess God would have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorah. And it is not because I do not know them, but because I do not want to be majorly drawn into a conversation where I will be ganged up on and called a biggot and the like because of my convictions. That is what is so hurtful in these situations. It seems in my experiences, that I try to understand homosexuals, listen and love them no matter what. However, sadly, mostly what I recieve back is name calling and disrespectful comments. So I'd rather not.

And yes, as I have mentioned in previous posts, I have homosexuals friends, close friends. I've listened to them, and they have listened to me. We agree to disagree. When it comes right down to it, yes, we have a choice. And in eternity, we will all know exactly what the right choice was. And no I am NOT saying if you're a homosexual you will go straight to hell. I have 2 homosexual friends who are Southern Baptist, with a pastor that is firmly convicted against homosexuality and preaches it from the pulpit with the scriptures. And they both have strong FAITH based answers in regards to eternity and where they will spend it. So yes, it's possible to be homosexual and have salvation, just as it's possible to be a murderer, rapist, pediphile, etc etc, and still have salvation. But that's a whole 'nother subject.

And I have said enough, perhaps to much. And I really do not want to get bashed, argue and the like. Have a great everyone!

Peace, out!!
Blessings,
Winnie

[wallyb]

I was invited to engage in discussion by Rick. ...
...I was called in another thread. I will probably getted banned for even posting on this thread even at Rick's request.


:flower3: Well gee-whiz, thanks Rick ...
Thanks for the...errrr...aaaah..."gift?"
Now what' ll we get you? :scratchin

[JerJan]

I think I am a fitting person to respond to you because I am very religious, overly traditional, etc. I even agree with part of your last statement that sexual deviancy will lead (let's be honest, it's happening now) to the decay of our culture. However, I do not think that homosexuality is deviant sexual behavior.

NO that's the REPUBLICAN PARTY that is leading the decay of our culture!!! :rotfl2:

[wallyb]

[QUOTE=MrVisible]discernment,
...So yes, it's possible to be homosexual and have salvation, just as it's possible to be a murderer, rapist, pediphile, etc etc, and still have salvation. But that's a whole 'nother subject. Winnie

Am I imagining this...Or are you putting being gay in the same category
With murderers, rapists, and pedophiles?
Now THAT'S hurtfull.

[LOLA2]

"I find homosexuality and pedophilia both to be abnormal, deviant sexual behaviors."

I was just skimming this thread, I am hetro but I was offended by this commment someone made- I can't believe homosexuality and pedophilia is even is same sentence. That is so absurd to me :scared1:

[discernment]

discernment, I have cogent, coherent and well-reasoned and supported arguments for each and every one of the points you made. I'll be happy to engage in a debate on this issue. However, I would like to set up the rules of engagement first.

If you want to argue this with me, first of all I want assurance that you are capable of changing your mind on this issue. I really don't want to go through all of the research and rhetoric that this takes just to end up against the brick wall of entrenched dogma. Ask yourself if you are, in fact, able to change your opinion on this. If not, no harm done, and no words will be wasted.

Secondly, I would like you to commit to seeing this argument through to its end. It's been my experience on other message boards that once it seems that the argument is going against them, people who have opinions similar to yours tend to vanish in a puff of tautology and bluster, only to resurface and repost the same tired and debunked arguments again within weeks. Are you willing to stay until we come to some sort of resolution on this?

For my part, I will assure you that I will conduct myself politely, respectfully, and will address your points with well-reasoned arguments supported by facts. I will consider your points carefully, and be willing to change my mind if you are persuasive enough. And I will persist in this conversation until we both agree that one of us has changed our minds, or we both agree that it's a stalemate.

I'm also open to considering any rules that you would like to establish.

You seem like an intelligent person with a solid viewpoint. I think we could have a very enjoyable debate.

But I've put too much effort in the past into these conversations, only to have them come to naught. Let's you and I avoid that, and have ourselves an old-fashioned, public forum, formal debate.

What do you say?

I thank you for your rational, well spoken reply.

I think the first hurdle that we would have to overcome to engage in the type of discourse you are describing is to come to an understanding about the whole choice vs inborn nature of homosexuality. We would need to agree up front that their is no conclusive medical or scienitific evidence that would support that their is a "gay" gene. Now you may point to several studies that take a leap into the "gay" gene area but have many gaps in them.

Therefore, I would be willing to look at these studies, i have probably seen most of them, but you would have to recognize and acknowledge that homosexuality is not caused by a genetic predisposition.

[Saxton]

The link between our struggle and the civil rights movement has been there long before most of us. Martin Luther King Jr. had gays in his inner circle and gays & lesbians marched to further the rights of African Americans. The Kings knew this and understood that rights are not just for one group. Coretta Scott King voiced her support of gays & lesbians many times, in fact, here are some of her quotes:

"I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice," she said. "But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.'" "I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people"

"Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood"

"Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in Albany, Ga. and St. Augustine, Fla., and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement," she said. "Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions."

"We are all tied together in a single garment of destiny . . . I can never be what I ought to be until you are allowed to be what you ought to be," she said, quoting her husband. "I've always felt that homophobic attitudes and policies were unjust and unworthy of a free society and must be opposed by all Americans who believe in democracy"

[MrVisible]

I thank you for your rational, well spoken reply.

I think the first hurdle that we would have to overcome to engage in the type of discourse you are describing is to come to an understanding about the whole choice vs inborn nature of homosexuality. We would need to agree up front that their is no conclusive medical or scienitific evidence that would support that their is a "gay" gene. Now you may point to several studies that take a leap into the "gay" gene area but have many gaps in them.

Therefore, I would be willing to look at these studies, i have probably seen most of them, but you would have to recognize and acknowledge that homosexuality is not caused by a genetic predisposition.
So, do you agree to the terms of the debate which I laid out?

Presuming the answer is yes, I'll continue.

I'm afraid I have a piece of evidence on this particular subject that you don't have access to, and that I believe adds to this discussion. Here goes:

I didn't choose to be gay.

Either that proves that some people don't choose to be gay, or it proves that I'm a liar. Whether it indicates a genetic predisposition, exposure to different hormone levels in the womb, a combination of experiences in early childhood, or the hand of God, is entirely up in the air, I'll admit. But in my personal experience, I didn't have a choice. Why would I, at the age of twelve, have chosen to have a massive boy-crush on my school friend John Paul? Why did I find myself attracted to the boy next door at the age of twelve, when I didn't even know what sex was, let alone that there was any such thing as gay?

That's what bothers me about this particular line of reasoning. It discounts the testimony of all of the gay and lesbian people out there who will swear that they never chose their orientation.

Are you going to start off this discussion by calling me a liar?

[RickinNYC]

:flower3: Well gee-whiz, thanks Rick ...
Thanks for the...errrr...aaaah..."gift?"
Now what' ll we get you? :scratchin


Yep, I invited him.

We need to be reminded that some of us do live in areas that are more enlightened and open minded, but not all of us.

We need to be reminded that there are some out there that would sooner beat us, tie us to a fence in the middle of nowhere and let us die rather than shake our hand if they could get away with it.

We need to be reminded that there are people out there who will mutate the word of God into words of hate simply because it fits their own version of morality.

We need to be reminded that there are people out there that will fight and scream and vote against our right to marry a consenting adult.

We need to be reminded that there are people who minimize a 15 year committed relationship because it is not a heterosexual one.

I think it's necessary that we all get a slap in the face of reality from time to time in order to remind us that there are hateful, opinionated, homophobic, biased, intentionally hurtful people out there that don't feel the same way as the majority that post on this particular board.

[RickinNYC]

I thank you for your rational, well spoken reply.

I think the first hurdle that we would have to overcome to engage in the type of discourse you are describing is to come to an understanding about the whole choice vs inborn nature of homosexuality. We would need to agree up front that their is no conclusive medical or scienitific evidence that would support that their is a "gay" gene. Now you may point to several studies that take a leap into the "gay" gene area but have many gaps in them.

Therefore, I would be willing to look at these studies, i have probably seen most of them, but you would have to recognize and acknowledge that homosexuality is not caused by a genetic predisposition.

I defy you to find an equally compelling legitimate article that states the opposity.

Oh, and does this mean you chose heterosexuality? Really? Must have been rough for you. I tried choosing it for myself and realized it wasn't for me.

So you chose to be hetersexual, eh?

Sucks for you man.

[MrVisible]

I can get into why I personally think homosexuality is an illness, and throw out all kinds of things to back up my argument; but I seriously doubt anyone here really wants to hear anything I have to say.

Well, I do. Thank you for agreeing to a civilized conversation on this topic. I very much appreciate the open-mindedness you're showing in subjecting your opinion to scrutiny, and the courage it takes to talk about this subject in a public forum.

Everyone has an opinion and it's their God given right to have one.
And if you post your opinions in a public place, especially if those opinions could be construed as being harmful to some people, everyone has a right to criticize them. And you have the obligation to back them up with reason and facts.

I'm looking forward to this.

[Sonno]

NO that's the REPUBLICAN PARTY that is leading the decay of our culture!!! :rotfl2:
:sad2:

Yep, I invited him.

We need to be reminded that some of us do live in areas that are more enlightened and open minded, but not all of us.

We need to be reminded that there are some out there that would sooner beat us, tie us to a fence in the middle of nowhere and let us die rather than shake our hand if they could get away with it.

We need to be reminded that there are people out there who will mutate the word of God into words of hate simply because it fits their own version of morality.

We need to be reminded that there are people out there that will fight and scream and vote against our right to marry a consenting adult.

We need to be reminded that there are people who minimize a 15 year committed relationship because it is not a heterosexual one.

I think it's necessary that we all get a slap in the face of reality from time to time in order to remind us that there are hateful, opinionated, homophobic, biased, intentionally hurtful people out there that don't feel the same way as the majority that post on this particular board.

Alrighty. I know a losing battle when I see one. If that is really truly how you think, then there is no point to civil rational discussion.
This shall be my last post here on this forum.

Take care all.

[MrVisible]

So you are going to honestly relate your struggle to the civil rights movement?
Specifically, to the fight against miscegenation laws that culminated in the 1967 Supreme Court ruling on Loving vs. Virginia. (http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/loving.html). You'll note that while black people and white people didn't have a choice of what color they were, they certainly had a choice of what color people they'd marry. Unless you factor in the idea that some people fall in love with each other without regard to race.

I think this quote from that ruling is particularly telling:The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men.

[MrVisible]

Alrighty. I know a losing battle when I see one. If that is really truly how you think, then there is no point to civil rational discussion.
This shall be my last post here on this forum.

Take care all.
This is frustrating.

Whenever these conversations occur, the anti-gay people always look for any excuse to storm off in a huff. They never debate the points brought up, never back up their opinions, they just take offense at something and leave, believing themselves to be the upholders of civil, rational discussion no matter how uncivilized or irrational their opinions are.

Sonno, if RickinNYC offended you, ignore him. You said you'd debate me, and I've followed the terms of the agreement. And you agreed to stay in the debate until it was resolved. Remember?

I hope to see better from discernment.

[discernment]

So, do you agree to the terms of the debate which I laid out?

Presuming the answer is yes, I'll continue.

I'm afraid I have a piece of evidence on this particular subject that you don't have access to, and that I believe adds to this discussion. Here goes:

I didn't choose to be gay.

Either that proves that some people don't choose to be gay, or it proves that I'm a liar. Whether it indicates a genetic predisposition, exposure to different hormone levels in the womb, a combination of experiences in early childhood, or the hand of God, is entirely up in the air, I'll admit. But in my personal experience, I didn't have a choice. Why would I, at the age of twelve, have chosen to have a massive boy-crush on my school friend John Paul? Why did I find myself attracted to the boy next door at the age of twelve, when I didn't even know what sex was, let alone that there was any such thing as gay?

That's what bothers me about this particular line of reasoning. It discounts the testimony of all of the gay and lesbian people out there who will swear that they never chose their orientation.

Are you going to start off this discussion by calling me a liar?

Would I call you a liar, no.

However, I do find that you are rationalizing and trying to justify your lifestyle choice. We all may have urges from time to time to engage in inappropriate behavior but here is the key, we choose whether to act on those urges or impulses.

Therefore, I believe that indeed your lifestyle is a choice you made long ago. Now, I can not presume to know what environmental element made you have these "attractions" you are describing.

[L107ANGEL]

Would I call you a liar, no.

However, I do find that you are rationalizing and trying to justify your lifestyle choice. We all may have urges from time to time to engage in inappropriate behavior but here is the key, we choose whether to act on those urges or impulses.

Therefore, I believe that indeed your lifestyle is a choice you made long ago. Now, I can not presume to know what environmental element made you have these "attractions" you are describing.
Hey everyone! Its time to do the hokie pokie again. :dance3:
Let me ask you this Discern, even though I am a hetro and support the rights of gay and lesbians, what does that make me?

[discernment]

This is frustrating.

Whenever these conversations occur, the anti-gay people always look for any excuse to storm off in a huff. They never debate the points brought up, never back up their opinions, they just take offense at something and leave, believing themselves to be the upholders of civil, rational discussion no matter how uncivilized or irrational their opinions are.

I hope to see better from discernment.

What is frustrating is to be invited into a conversation and then for that same person to sit there and insult you. First Rick says I wouldnt have the courage to come here and now he blasts me and insults me for showing up.

Who is truly interesting in an honest dialougue and not just name calling.

Dont blame Sonno, place the blame on people such as Rick that invite a discussion but start off with some angry rhetoric.

I am very interested in having this discussion with you but perhaps to avoid the name calling that people like Rick obviously can not refrain from that we discuss this offline. PM me and we can discuss a more suitable less hostile forum for our discussion.

[MrVisible]

Would I call you a liar, no.

However, I do find that you are rationalizing and trying to justify your lifestyle choice. We all may have urges from time to time to engage in inappropriate behavior but here is the key, we choose whether to act on those urges or impulses.

Therefore, I believe that indeed your lifestyle is a choice you made long ago. Now, I can not presume to know what environmental element made you have these "attractions" you are describing.
How am I rationalizing? I'm relating my experiences to you. I'm telling you what happened. You either believe me or you don't. If you don't believe me, you think I'm a liar.

You believe something about me, that "your lifestyle is a choice you made long ago." I'm telling you that that is wrong. I remember my childhood, and no such event took place. There was no choice involved.

Am I lying, or are you wrong?

[discernment]

Hey everyone! Its time to do the hokie pokie again. :dance3:
Let me ask you this Discern, even though I am a hetro and support the rights of gay and lesbians, what does that make me?

a person that supports the rights of homosexuals.

[L107ANGEL]

a person that supports the rights of homosexuals.
Does that make me nuts?

[MrVisible]

I am very interested in having this discussion with you but perhaps to avoid the name calling that people like Rick obviously can not refrain from that we discuss this offline. PM me and we can discuss a more suitable less hostile forum for our discussion.
You've stated your opinion in public. I believe it should be debated in public.

If someone on here offends you, ignore them. They have a right to say what they want, too.

Personally, I believe in setting a good example. Let's just talk.

[discernment]

How am I rationalizing? I'm relating my experiences to you. I'm telling you what happened. You either believe me or you don't. If you don't believe me, you think I'm a liar.

You believe something about me, that "your lifestyle is a choice you made long ago." I'm telling you that that is wrong. I remember my childhood, and no such event took place. There was no choice involved.

Am I lying, or are you wrong?

This is not an either/or choice.

I think you honestly believe in why you think you are gay.

There was a choice involved when you acted upon your homosexual urges. You chose that path. No one made you act upon those urges. You did so on your own free will.

Like I said, sorry but i had to respond, lets take this offline.

[RickinNYC]

What is frustrating is to be invited into a conversation and then for that same person to sit there and insult you. First Rick says I wouldnt have the courage to come here and now he blasts me and insults me for showing up.

Who is truly interesting in an honest dialougue and not just name calling.

Dont blame Sonno, place the blame on people such as Rick that invite a discussion but start off with some angry rhetoric.

I am very interested in having this discussion with you but perhaps to avoid the name calling that people like Rick obviously can not refrain from that we discuss this offline. PM me and we can discuss a more suitable less hostile forum for our discussion.

You can make inflammatory comments but no one else can? Or are you going to start spouting off that nonsense that the group that demands the most tolerance is the least tolerant? Or perhaps you want to bring up your NAMBLA comment once again and do your best to convince others that this particular group is representative of the gay community as a whole?

I did invite you here. I never told you I was going to play nice.

[RickinNYC]

This is not an either/or choice.

I think you honestly believe in why you think you are gay.

There was a choice involved when you acted upon your homosexual urges. You chose that path. No one made you act upon those urges. You did so on your own free will.

Like I said, sorry but i had to respond, lets take this offline.

Don't take it offline. I think everyone would love to know more about how your line of thinking works.

[discernment]

You've stated your opinion in public. I believe it should be debated in public.

If someone on here offends you, ignore them. They have a right to say what they want, too.

Personally, I believe in setting a good example. Let's just talk.

If you are truly interested in an honest dialogue then it should not matter if its public or private. Our discussion will flow much better in another forum without the constant people butting in just to engage in name calling and hurling out insults.

[Nisa]

I don't need to be reminded of the intolerance of our world. I live in NC and see/hear it every day. I come to these boards (specifically the Gay & Lesbian board) in hopes that I don't have to debate my life and to get my Disney fix. I would hope all who visit here would, at least, be tolerant and not to just come to pick a fight. The DIS boards, for me, are a happy place. So...I will avoid these type discussions from now on. It's pretty sad but these type arguments can't be "won". Love to all who continue to fight for us.

Have a great day!

[discernment]

You can make inflammatory comments but no one else can? Or are you going to start spouting off that nonsense that the group that demands the most tolerance is the least tolerant? Or perhaps you want to bring up your NAMBLA comment once again and do your best to convince others that this particular group is representative of the gay community as a whole?

I did invite you here. I never told you I was going to play nice.

At least quote me right.

I said NAMBLA is a homosexual organization. Isnt it? Yes or No?

I never said that NAMBLA is representative of the entire gay community.

And its true, some of the most intolerant people I have ever come across claim to be the most tolerant. Look in that other thread where I was called a homophobe, clansman, bigot, extremist, hate filled, part of a godhatesfags group, etc. These names were all hurled by people that claim to be tolerant.

You can play however you feel. But it shows your motives of having me come here. You wanted me to come here so people could give me "what for".

You are not interested in any civil discourse on this matter. You would prefer the name calling.

[RickinNYC]

At least quote me right.

I said NAMBLA is a homosexual organization. Isnt it? Yes or No?

I never said that NAMBLA is representative of the entire gay community.

And its true, some of the most intolerant people I have ever come across claim to be the most tolerant. Look in that other thread where I was called a homophobe, clansman, bigot, extremist, hate filled, part of a godhatesfags group, etc. These names were all hurled by people that claim to be tolerant.

You can play however you feel. But it shows your motives of having me come here. You wanted me to come here so people could give me "what for".
You are not interested in any civil discourse on this matter. You would prefer the name calling.

I wanted other gay/lesbian people on the DIS realize that not everyone that visits the boards are as open minded and accepting and caring as those that regularly post here. My point has been proven.

ETA, if you can't handle other people getting angry at your comments when you KNOW your comments are inflammatory, then I suggest you keep your comments to your self.

[MrVisible]

This is not an either/or choice.

I think you honestly believe in why you think you are gay.

There was a choice involved when you acted upon your homosexual urges. You chose that path. No one made you act upon those urges. You did so on your own free will.

Like I said, sorry but i had to respond, lets take this offline.
So you concede that I had homosexual urges that were not my choice, then? Let's establish that first.

And I only debate these things in public. You posted your opinions in a public forum. If they're worthy of defense, that is where you should defend them.

[L107ANGEL]

If you are truly interested in an honest dialogue then it should not matter if its public or private. Our discussion will flow much better in another forum without the constant people butting in just to engage in name calling and hurling out insults.
Whats wrong? Not getting the results you want so you are going to take your ball and go home now?

[discernment]

So you concede that I had homosexual urges that were not my choice, then? Let's establish that first.

And I only debate these things in public. You posted your opinions in a public forum. If they're worthy of defense, that is where you should defend them.

I will answer this and then be done with the public discussion. Because if you are truly interested in this discussion then it shouldnt matter where we have it. I am willing to defend my position publicly but to have a straight forward fluid conversation then we must eliminate those that are here just to hurl insults and have no interest in a rational, calm manner. Those that have trouble controlling their anger.

I believe that your homosexual urges were a product of your environment and upbringing. They were not a product of some genetic predisposition.

Again, you chose to act upon those urges. You have always had a choice. You picked the path that you went down.

[discernment]

Whats wrong? Not getting the results you want so you are going to take your ball and go home now?


See exhibit A

I am asking for a rational discussion but people come in here and want to make snide remarks like this.

Have you anything intelligent and rational to add to this?

[L107ANGEL]

I will answer this and then be done with the public discussion. Because if you are truly interested in this discussion then it shouldnt matter where we have it. I am willing to defend my position publicly but to have a straight forward fluid conversation then we must eliminate those that are here just to hurl insults and have no interest in a rational, calm manner. Those that have trouble controlling their anger.

I believe that your homosexual urges were a product of your environment and upbringing. They were not a product of some genetic predisposition.

Again, you chose to act upon those urges. You have always had a choice. You picked the path that you went down.
Its not a choice! :confused3

[L107ANGEL]

See exhibit A

I am asking for a rational discussion but people come in here and want to make snide remarks like this.

Have you anything intelligent and rational to add to this?


Ok, fair enough, you keep saying that this is a choice. I completely disagree. Why would a rational person choose to lead a lifestyle that others view in the same light as being a pedophile? That thought process would be NUTS!
Disclaimer: Those aren't my views, that is our own Discerns words.

[MrVisible]

I will answer this and then be done with the public discussion. Because if you are truly interested in this discussion then it shouldnt matter where we have it. I am willing to defend my position publicly but to have a straight forward fluid conversation then we must eliminate those that are here just to hurl insults and have no interest in a rational, calm manner. Those that have trouble controlling their anger.
I'm disappointed. My terms were that you stuck it out to a resolution. A few hecklers, and you're cutting and running. Not a very good showing for your side, old boy. Here's a tip: they're just words on a screen. Nobody's hurling anything at you, nobody's threatening your life. If you don't want to read somthing somebody posts, check the username on the post first, and skip over it if you will.

You make these claims in public, you defend them in public. Secrecy only benefits you. I have everything to gain by debating in public.

If you leave, I'm calling this one a win for our side. Just so you know.

I believe that your homosexual urges were a product of your environment and upbringing. They were not a product of some genetic predisposition.

Again, you chose to act upon those urges. You have always had a choice. You picked the path that you went down.
Now that we've established that, whether it's genetic or not, most homosexuals didn't choose their orientation, we can move on to the question of the choice to engage in homosexual activity. By which I assume you mean gay sex, and not shopping.

Let me pose you a question. My partner and I have been together for five years. In October, we're having a ceremony where we will be promising ourselves to each other for life, because we want to be there to love and to care for each other no matter what.

Neither of us have the slightest interest in women.

Our choices were:

1) Be together, make each other happy, love each other, and be faithful to each other, and do our best together to make the world a better place.

2) Ignore the fact that we'd both found someone to love, someone who needed us, someone who could be with us for the rest of our lives, and be miserable and celibate.

3) Fake heterosexual relationships by lying to our wives about our desire for them, and build our lives on deceiving people who love us.

Which should we have chosen?

Keep in mind that our relationship makes our families happy as well. Especially my mom; she's always been worried that I'd be alone all my life, and she just loves my partner immensely. She even taught him to knit.

[imsorry]

To Discern (or whatever your name is)

Why would someone choose a life style that is so fraught with difficulty?

I don't think it is a choice at all; it is decided before you are born. I have read that when a woman is pregant, sometimes there is a hormonal imbalance that effects the developing baby. I think life is difficult enough without small minded people handing out judgement on everyone who crosses their path.

No one is asking you to change the way you live your life. Why can't you live and let live?

[MrVisible]

Ok, fair enough, you keep saying that this is a choice. I completely disagree. Why would a rational person choose to lead a lifestyle that others view in the same light as being a pedophile? That thought process would be NUTS!
Disclaimer: Those aren't my views, that is our own Discerns words.
You missed the part where discernment conceded that it's not a choice.
I believe that your homosexual urges were a product of your environment and upbringing. They were not a product of some genetic predisposition.
Seeing as nobody has established whether homosexuality is genetic, environmental, or a combination of the two (and most research is leaning heavily toward the combination theory), I feel that it's a significant concession on his part, and an indication that he's genuinely open-minded about this subject.

Let's see how it plays out.

[discernment]

I'm disappointed. My terms were that you stuck it out to a resolution. A few hecklers, and you're cutting and running. Not a very good showing for your side, old boy. Here's a tip: they're just words on a screen. Nobody's hurling anything at you, nobody's threatening your life. If you don't want to read somthing somebody posts, check the username on the post first, and skip over it if you will.

You make these claims in public, you defend them in public. Secrecy only benefits you. I have everything to gain by debating in public.

If you leave, I'm calling this one a win for our side. Just so you know.


Now that we've established that, whether it's genetic or not, most homosexuals didn't choose their orientation, we can move on to the question of the choice to engage in homosexual activity. By which I assume you mean gay sex, and not shopping.

Let me pose you a question. My partner and I have been together for five years. In October, we're having a ceremony where we will be promising ourselves to each other for life, because we want to be there to love and to care for each other no matter what.

Neither of us have the slightest interest in women.

Our choices were:

1) Be together, make each other happy, love each other, and be faithful to each other, and do our best together to make the world a better place.

2) Ignore the fact that we'd both found someone to love, someone who needed us, someone who could be with us for the rest of our lives, and be miserable and celibate.

3) Fake heterosexual relationships by lying to our wives about our desire for them, and build our lives on deceiving people who love us.

Which should we have chosen?

Keep in mind that our relationship makes our families happy as well. Especially my mom; she's always been worried that I'd be alone all my life, and she just loves my partner immensely. She even taught him to knit.

I didnt realize this was a win/lose type deal. In your initial request you said that you wanted to have a discussion about this. You didnt say that it had to be in public.

If you are truly wanting to hear my viewpoint and not just interested in others supporting your position then my invitation always stands. PM me when you are ready to engage.

I am running from nothing. Claim some sort of hollow victory if you like.

If your purpose was to truly understand my position then you are the one that has lost something when I am reaching out to you asking for a discussion.

[DLBDS]

Straight girl, here. I was scanning the main forum and this thread caught my eye. I saw that it was under the Gay & Lesbian at Disney forum but proceeded anyway. I've only looked at the first couple of pages to this thread so I don't know what most views/responses have been posted. Let me just preface this by saying that I don't have anything against "gay" folks. I believe in gay marriage. And I've always thought a gay guy would make the perfect friend for a straight girl (like myself). ::yes:: Alas, I don't know any gay people.....that I know of. However, I have wondered about a few folks I've met. ;) NOW.....I have 2 opinions on why gays are gay. #1 being that it's a birth defect. Nothing to be done about it. It is what it is. #2....and this one may seem a little, well, out there.....humans are evolving into something that's, well, else. Don't know what. :confused3 But there ya go. Don't know where God fits into all this as I'm not really into the whole religious thing. Just my .02 worth. Hope I haven't offended anyone with my opinions. It certainly wasn't my intent to do so.

[MrVisible]

Here were the terms I proposed:
discernment, I have cogent, coherent and well-reasoned and supported arguments for each and every one of the points you made. I'll be happy to engage in a debate on this issue. However, I would like to set up the rules of engagement first.

If you want to argue this with me, first of all I want assurance that you are capable of changing your mind on this issue. I really don't want to go through all of the research and rhetoric that this takes just to end up against the brick wall of entrenched dogma. Ask yourself if you are, in fact, able to change your opinion on this. If not, no harm done, and no words will be wasted.

Secondly, I would like you to commit to seeing this argument through to its end. It's been my experience on other message boards that once it seems that the argument is going against them, people who have opinions similar to yours tend to vanish in a puff of tautology and bluster, only to resurface and repost the same tired and debunked arguments again within weeks. Are you willing to stay until we come to some sort of resolution on this?

For my part, I will assure you that I will conduct myself politely, respectfully, and will address your points with well-reasoned arguments supported by facts. I will consider your points carefully, and be willing to change my mind if you are persuasive enough. And I will persist in this conversation until we both agree that one of us has changed our minds, or we both agree that it's a stalemate.

I'm also open to considering any rules that you would like to establish.

You seem like an intelligent person with a solid viewpoint. I think we could have a very enjoyable debate.

But I've put too much effort in the past into these conversations, only to have them come to naught. Let's you and I avoid that, and have ourselves an old-fashioned, public forum, formal debate.

See this argument through to its end, which we both agree on. Public forum.

Debates are a win/lose proposition. They're even scored on a college level.

Now, are you ready to grow a thicker skin and address the polite, cogent and rational arguments I've made, or are you going to cut and run? You've been threatening to leave for two pages now.

If you're leaving, leave.

Keep in mind that, by the rules laid out, if you leave, you lose.

[The Mayor]

Straight guy here...reading this and I'm completely dumbfounded by the ignorance shown with regards that being gay is a choice...is it my choice to love woman or was I born to love woman...why do we need to discuss this...does it affect your life when two woman or two men love each other...it doesn't affect mine...let it go...gays/lesbians don't question our so called "normal" lifestyles...why do we ned to question their lifestyle...John Lennon said it best:

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one


Live your life the best you can and let others live their's.

[discernment]

Here were the terms I proposed:


See this argument through to its end, which we both agree on. Public forum.

Debates are a win/lose proposition. They're even scored on a college level.

Now, are you ready to grow a thicker skin and address the polite, cogent and rational arguments I've made, or are you going to cut and run? You've been threatening to leave for two pages now.

If you're leaving, leave.

Keep in mind that, by the rules laid out, if you leave, you lose.

As I said, I looked at this as an exchange of ideas looking to hear one anothers position. I did not and will not look upon this as a debate.

Seems to me that you are more interested in your mind at your concept of "winning" some kind of "debate" more than you are in a rational exchange of ideas. That alone speaks volumes of your motives. Any exchange of ideas is not just merely a win/lose proposition. It is more of a win/win because hopefully you walk away with some sort of insight into another person's position.

Indeed this will be my last post on this thread. PM me if you are really insterested in further discussion. I will await you response or lack thereof.

[RickinNYC]

MrVisible, looks like you won the debate whether he's willing to admit that it was a debate or not. Congrats! :cool1:

[SillyMe]

Let me pose you a question. My partner and I have been together for five years. In October, we're having a ceremony where we will be promising ourselves to each other for life, because we want to be there to love and to care for each other no matter what.

Neither of us have the slightest interest in women.

Our choices were:

1) Be together, make each other happy, love each other, and be faithful to each other, and do our best together to make the world a better place.

2) Ignore the fact that we'd both found someone to love, someone who needed us, someone who could be with us for the rest of our lives, and be miserable and celibate.

3) Fake heterosexual relationships by lying to our wives about our desire for them, and build our lives on deceiving people who love us.

Which should we have chosen?

Keep in mind that our relationship makes our families happy as well. Especially my mom; she's always been worried that I'd be alone all my life, and she just loves my partner immensely. She even taught him to knit.
Great question!

I'm a straight woman and I certainly would not want to be married to a man who is gay and only living a lie. I can't imagine the heartbreak it would cause an entire family. You get married, have children and put on a happy face. Inside you are miserably unhappy. So one day you decide you've had enough of the lies and you fall in love with another man. Now there are children who are being hurt as well.

Why on earth would anyone expect someone who doesn't have control of their sexuality to live a lie just for the sake of not offending others who are ignorant??

[lisajl]

unfortunately there is always more than one in every crowd. My son came out to us in February. He is still the wonderful young man he was before that time. Yes I had a hard time absorbing it(even though we had suspected he was for a while)We love him with all of our being. He even says to us" I didnt ask to like boys" I am just glad we are the type of parents who are open and accepting so my son doesnt have to hide in shame. Thanks for listening Mimimom


This is a very heartwarming post. You still love your son...that is all he wants, I'm sure. My DD has a friend that is gay and his parents are trying to get him into a psychologist to turn him straight. I have not seen this young man in over 2 years. I hope he is doing okay. His brother, a body builder, has repeatedly beat the crap out of him for liking boys.
He can't change who he is anymore than we can. What we can change is the way we think. Why can't people accept that?

[MrVisible]

As I said, I looked at this as an exchange of ideas looking to hear one anothers position. I did not and will not look upon this as a debate.

Seems to me that you are more interested in your mind at your concept of "winning" some kind of "debate" more than you are in a rational exchange of ideas. That alone speaks volumes of your motives. Any exchange of ideas is not just merely a win/lose proposition. It is more of a win/win because hopefully you walk away with some sort of insight into another person's position.

Indeed this will be my last post on this thread. PM me if you are really insterested in further discussion. I will await you response or lack thereof.
I specifically stated this was a debate in the proposition I first posted. I'm sick of people posting incendiary statements about me and people I love and then claiming it's some sort of public service. Stand behind your opinions, back them up with facts, or they're not worthy of being posted in a public forum where people might read them and think you have some sort of rational point.

I'd like to conclude this little demonstration of the absurdity of the anti-gay contingent with an inevitable "I told you so" moment. From my first post:It's been my experience on other message boards that once it seems that the argument is going against them, people who have opinions similar to yours tend to vanish in a puff of tautology and bluster, only to resurface and repost the same tired and debunked arguments again within weeks.
Shine a light on the bad guys, and they scurry for the shadows like roaches.

I hereby declare this debate an unconditional win for the side of Good, Love, Peace, Light, and Rationality.

Celebrate in the manner of your choice.

[RickinNYC]

I hereby declare this debate an unconditional win for the side of Good, Love, Peace, Light, and Rationality.

Celebrate in the manner of your choice.

I second that!

And I plan on celebrating by giving my partner a smooch. Thanks for another opportunity to do so Discernment!

[oelpa]

People like discernment really make me sick, why can't they just leave us alone what are they scared of.... i don't get it.

And all the talk about god .... do you really think that god (if there is one) would only approve of a love between a man and a women? I don't think so the most important thing is to love someone be it a man or a women that is what god would want. All the things all the anti-gay's are refering to, bible, scriptures are written by men and not by god so how do you know what god really wants?

@mrvisible i admire your calm and rational manner of discussioning this things with people like discern... i could never to that they really make me mad.

Well what would interst me is did people like discernment chose to be so intolerant and hateful or is it in their gens) :confused:

thanx fo letting me vent...

[Doctor Pedantic]

I hope Discernment comes back, because I want him to hear my story...

I am the son of a Fundamentalist minister and still consider myself a strong Christian and a person of deep faith. I knew from puberty that I was attracted to men, and as I got older I saw my older brother come out and deal with all of the repercussions -- which included my father, who had just concluded a year-long-affair with a parishioner, telling my brother that he was going to get AIDS, die, and burn in Hell. (As opposed to Dear Old Dad, whose sin was at least, in his words, "normal" and subject to forgiveness by God).

I thought I was lucky: even though all of my sexual fantasies were about men, I liked women, too. I figured that marrying a woman would work out fine, and I could just continue to suppress my desire for men. My thinking was, monogamy is monogamy, and if you get married you're not supposed to have sex with anyone, no matter what gender, so everything would be fine. So I got married as a good, Christian, 27-year-old virgin. The good news is I ended up with three terrific kids. The bad news is, the marriage ended up being a disaster.

So we finally got divorced for reasons that were unrelated to my sexuality (which my ex knew nothing about). I finally started living my life as the person God created me to be, and to my mind, doing anything differently is blasphemy. I have been in a relationship for the last year with a man whom I truly consider my soul mate -- which I never felt about my wife, even in the best of times. We have an honesty, a commitment, and a channel of communication that far surpasses anything I ever experienced in my marriage. The kids love my partner and look to him as a second dad, and as a family we could not be happier. We go to a gay-friendly church where we are all welcomed and loved, and where I can hold my partner's hand during services and bask in God's love.

I say all this for a few reasons. Yes, with some gay people there is an element of "choice." But the choice, where it exists, is just whether or not to live an honest and fulfilling life -- not whether you are gay or straight. My brother could not be with women at all; I could, but that was not something I was designed to do or have any interest in. My "choice" to try to live straight hurt many people, and I have lost friends not because of my sexuality, but because of what they perceived as my deceit. Second, my first sham marriage was more of a threat to marriage as an institution than my current relationship could possibly be. Third, I understand the belief that homosexuality is "wrong" -- I believed it and internalized it for years, which plunged me into self-hatred and depression. I don't think it's homophobic to have a personal moral belief that homosexuality is a sin. But there needs to be some perspective. Jesus didn't say a word about homosexuality, much less gay marriage. He did, however, preach against divorce, and in fact limited the acceptable grounds for divorce to adultery. I don't hear a lot of rhetoric from the Right Wingers about how the Constitution should be amended to prohibit divorce except in the case of adultery. Why not?

At the end of the day, it's about respect. Jesus said the only two commandments were to love God and love others. And for all the talk about Sodom, the reason it was destroyed had nothing to do with sexuality: it was about the mistreatment of, and lack of hospitality towards, others. (Exekiel 16:49-50: “Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food, and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw it.”)

Discernment, I didn't "choose" to be gay, and you didn't "choose" to be straight. What we can choose, however, is whether to treat everyone -- even people who are different from us, even people with whom we have strong disagreements -- with dignity and respect.

[wallyb]

So we’re called -diseased, crazy, sinners,
Lumped in with murderers, rapists, and pedophiles.

And a few strong opinions are lobbed the other way-
And one (sonno) two (discernment) are gone? Poof?

And they call us Nancy Boys.

Shame really, when I OPed I just thought it was an odd and kind of ridiculous story ... "another brick in the wall" as they say.

But the discourse was interesting.

Sorry it ended in a “whimper” :sad1:

[Tiggernut_jadie]

Can I just congratulate Mr Visible for conducting his side of the debate (or exchange of views or whatever!) in such a calm and rational manner? :thumbsup2

Another troll goes scurring off into the undergrowth!!!! :rotfl: :dance3:

[DisneyDotty]

Discernment, I didn't "choose" to be gay, and you didn't "choose" to be straight. What we can choose, however, is whether to treat everyone -- even people who are different from us, even people with whom we have strong disagreements -- with dignity and respect.


Amen. And thanks for sharing your story. I find myself caught up in the whole "choice" argument when really whether homosexuality is a choice doesn't even matter.

Why must some people fight so hard to oppress others? Why do some people make it their goal in life to deny others life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Two homosexuals in love, living monogamously, raising their family--in what possible way is that harmful to society? How would that threaten my blessed and happy heterosexual marriage? Why wouldn't I want my homosexual friends and family to experience the same joys that I have? Are we as a society so selfish and hateful to think only certain people get to live out their lives as they see fit?

Why don't people who want to deny homosexuals their rights ever answer these questions? Discernement? Sonno? Anyone?

[buddy&wooz]

Mr Visable, I'm sorry I didn't see this thread sooner. Sadly the person you asked to debate you has a reputation for taking discussion down the path he wants it to go down, logic or rules of debate be damned. Your well-intentioned debate was doomed from the beginning, I'm afraid. To debate you need honesty on both sides, and there is no honesty with discernment.

[RickinNYC]

So we’re called -diseased, crazy, sinners,
Lumped in with murderers, rapists, and pedophiles.

And a few strong opinions are lobbed the other way-
And one (sonno) two (discernment) are gone? Poof?

And they call us Nancy Boys.
Shame really, when I OPed I just thought it was an odd and kind of ridiculous story ... "another brick in the wall" as they say.

But the discourse was interesting.

Sorry it ended in a “whimper” :sad1:


ROFL! :rotfl:

[VSL]

I just wanted to offer my support to all the posters here who have to put up with this discriminatory nonsense every day.

I don't understand how in the US, where there is supposed to be a seperation of church and state, homosexual marriages or civil unions are not allowed, while in the UK (where our head of state is head of the church!! - and we do have a common religion, regardless of our mixed culture) civil unions for homosexual couples is totally legal!

Not to mention that, as others have said, the most important thing is to love others and to love God (if we're looking at Christianity here).

[RickinNYC]

Amen. And thanks for sharing your story. I find myself caught up in the whole "choice" argument when really whether homosexuality is a choice doesn't even matter.

Why must some people fight so hard to oppress others? Why do some people make it their goal in life to deny others life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Two homosexuals in love, living monogamously, raising their family--in what possible way is that harmful to society? How would that threaten my blessed and happy heterosexual marriage? Why wouldn't I want my homosexual friends and family to experience the same joys that I have? Are we as a society so selfish and hateful to think only certain people get to live out their lives as they see fit?

Why don't people who want to deny homosexuals their rights ever answer these questions? Discernement? Sonno? Anyone?

Because doing so elevates themselves to a higher level in their own mind in an attempt to make up for whatever their shortcomings might be. It's human nature for the less intelligent to find one single factor in someone else's life and focus on that and do their best to attack it. It makes them feel vindicated doing so.

If only I could remind myself of this and then I'd pity homophobes, not be disgusted by them.

[JimFitz]

Can someone explain the Gay Pride Parades to me?

[amykissangel]

This is my first post here - I came to understand more about DVC and happened to see this thread. Right now (and I am an extremely sensitive person, so perhaps this means nothing) I am in tears. I can't, just can't understand why individuals are so incredibly narrow minded when in comes to the subject of homosexuality. I am straight, AND catholic, and believe that we are ALL EQUAL regardless of sexual preference.

These men and women who grew up feeling different and now know it was because they were/are homosexual - we're telling them that they are wrong? That they did have a choice, they just made the wrong one?????

I can't understand how people can claim to be friends with anyone who is homosexual, but say they disagree with the lifestyle. It isn't like saying, "Jane smokes, and I don't agree with it, but we can still be friends." Because Jane can put out her cigarette and you and she can have a nice time together. But if you don't agree with someone's sexual preference, then you honestly don't understand that individual. If you don't understand them, they you aren't a true friend.

I apologize if I ruffled any feathers, but my cousin Jeff is gay, and is the most fantastic man in the entire world. He deserves every chance he can get, and with people out there willing to put him down because of a choice he never got to make...

It makes me very, very sad. Thanks for listening.

[RickinNYC]

This is my first post here - I came to understand more about DVC and happened to see this thread. Right now (and I am an extremely sensitive person, so perhaps this means nothing) I am in tears. I can't, just can't understand why individuals are so incredibly narrow minded when in comes to the subject of homosexuality. I am straight, AND catholic, and believe that we are ALL EQUAL regardless of sexual preference.

These men and women who grew up feeling different and now know it was because they were/are homosexual - we're telling them that they are wrong? That they did have a choice, they just made the wrong one?????

I can't understand how people can claim to be friends with anyone who is homosexual, but say they disagree with the lifestyle. It isn't like saying, "Jane smokes, and I don't agree with it, but we can still be friends." Because Jane can put out her cigarette and you and she can have a nice time together. But if you don't agree with someone's sexual preference, then you honestly don't understand that individual. If you don't understand them, they you aren't a true friend.

I apologize if I ruffled any feathers, but my cousin Jeff is gay, and is the most fantastic man in the entire world. He deserves every chance he can get, and with people out there willing to put him down because of a choice he never got to make...

It makes me very, very sad. Thanks for listening.

First, welcome to the DIS! Keep on posting!

Second, it makes us sad as well.

[RickinNYC]

Can someone explain the Gay Pride Parades to me?

Perhaps if you explain your question or at least explain a little more about what it is you want to know, someone here would be glad to answer.

[JimFitz]

Perhaps if you explain your question or at least explain a little more about what it is you want to know, someone here would be glad to answer.

How can I start a heterosexual parade so I can see some gorgeous blondes in leather?

Actually, all kidding aside, you need to admit that they are over the top and vulgar.

[goofygirl]

in honor of Discernment:


http://www.funtasticnovelties.com/itemsimages/troll%20-%202.5.jpg

[goofygirl]

Can someone explain the Gay Pride Parades to me?\


Sure, they are like the WDW parades only with more interesting outfits!

[AnaheimGirl]

I believe that your homosexual urges were a product of your environment and upbringing. They were not a product of some genetic predisposition. Tell me, please, what exactly in a person's environment and upbringing would cause these homosexual urges?

I need to know, so I can be sure to raise my kids to be straight. :thumbsup2

[RickinNYC]

How can I start a heterosexual parade so I can see some gorgeous blondes in leather?

Actually, all kidding aside, you need to admit that they are over the top and vulgar.

Well, once members of the heterosexual community begins to get beaten for being straight, or if the entire community as a whole is threatened with an amendment to the Constitution, or if in several states one can lose one's job for being straight or if fear tactics are applied so as to allow one's heterosexuality get one banned from the military, then sure, I'd support a Straight Pride Parade. Heck, I'd help carry your banner and wear my "Proud of my Straight Family" t-shirt.

But all kidding aside, the gay pride parade originally started as a means to unite the gay community and allow a day to celebrate diversity, joining together for a common goal. Sure, that celebration can get over the top, just like any parade for any group. What you see in the news and in papers are video clips and photos, sound bites and quotes, from those folks that the news position as definitive of the group as a whole. Those also happen to be the drag queens, the leather daddies, the chicks on bikes, etc... That's what the news wants. They report the shocking, NOT the boring.

Can't speak for the rest of the community, but I, my partner and my friends actually happen to be incredibly boring homebodies. We cook dinner at home. A night out is dinner and a movie. We stroll the aisles of Barnes and Noble looking for the latest best seller. We walk our dog. We go to Disney World.

And yeah, we do tend to roll our eyes and chuckle when, on Gay Pride Day, we see a video clip on New York 1 of a drag queen in a Daffy's sale rack dress posing with some muscle bound guy in leather chaps, both screeching "fabulous" when the cameras lock on them.

[L107ANGEL]

How can I start a heterosexual parade so I can see some gorgeous blondes in leather?

Actually, all kidding aside, you need to admit that they are over the top and vulgar.
Hi Jim. Let me begin by telling you that my DD and I had the pleasure of meeting Rick and Joe this past weekend, along with another awesome diser and her DH, for volunteer work. If you were to actually meet these two men, you would know that what is portrayed by the media is not at all what the majority of the gay community represent. While touring the city, once the volunteer work was completed, Rick and I joked that if you saw the two of them walking together you would think they were just 2 guys who ditched their wives to look for a place for a cold beer.

[JimFitz]

No one answered my question about seeing gorgeous blondes in leather. ;)

[Thizz]

NO that's the REPUBLICAN PARTY that is leading the decay of our culture!!! :rotfl2:
AMEN!!!!!! PREACH IT!!!!

[L107ANGEL]

No one answered my question about seeing gorgeous blondes in leather. ;)
Well, if I were gorgeous I would pm you a pic ;)

[goofygirl]

I believe that your homosexual urges were a product of your environment and upbringing. They were not a product of some genetic predisposition.

If being gay is caused by a gay-like environment, how do you explain Dick Cheney having a lesbian daughter?

[dkostel]

Screw the APA. They took us off the list of crazies back in the DSM-II days. What do they know? Stupid psychologists, probably believe in evolution, and a round world. :lmao:

[RickinNYC]

If being gay is caused by a gay-like environment, how do you explain Dick Cheney having a lesbian daughter?

Because even she didn't want to be blamed for carrying on the family name through procreation? :rotfl2:

[2Princes2Princesses]

I read through everything here and was going to stay out of it, but I am me, and just cannot. I am just going to post opinions, and I am not trying to offend anyone, just going with my gut here. Sock me back at will. :thumbsup2

First off, the "lifestyle choice" debate--I DO understand why the G&L community wants it to be understood that it has never been a choice for them. And I agree with that. I cannot even imagine why someone would choose something that so many persecute you for, as has been mentioned on this thread. If I had a "choice" and "choosing" to be ridiculed, lumped in with pedophiles and the like was an option....I would not pick it. I don't think homosexuality is a choice. It just IS. But why do straight people try to determine one way or the other?? Why do they SO adamantly rant and rave that it is a choice?? So what? If I choose to have sex with my husband upside down and backwards, is that hurting anyone?? NO!!! So MYOB and stop trying to say it is a choice. Until you have been there, you have no way to know. I am raving on this, but I have a friend who tried to "choose" heterosexuality as we grew up and was suicidal until he was true to himself. Now he is happy, with a great guy...there was no choice for him.

Next, this whole marriage uproar. Everytime I hear about the "sanctity" of marriage, I have to guffaw. Please. If people are so worried about the sanctity of marriage, they should leave the G&L community alone and start knocking on doors at the No-Tel Mo-Tels and sending their "holier than thou" elected leaders and their lovers home to their respective spouses. :sad2: One of my closest friends goes on about the Bible and marriage between a man and a woman and what not. Meanwhile, in the 10 years she was married before her recent divorce, she slept with every man she got within 10 feet of. I can honestly say that my husband and I would not think any less of our marriage if same sex marriage was legalized country-wide. Personally, I think it would bring a higher standard to the institution of marriage......some of the best, most committed relationships I have seen are gay couples. We straight people would have a lot to measure up to. :)

I won't even get started on the adoption issue. I am not a devout Christian, but I have read the Bible and I seem to think that Jesus would much rather have children in stable, loving homes with two same sex parents than bouncing around in foster care. JMO.

And my final rant of the afternoon is this......obviously I am for same sex marriage. I don't see how it hurts anyone or trivializes anything. However, even if I was not all for it, I was ABSOLUTELY REPULSED that amending the Constitution, a document giving citizens of our country rights and freedoms, in order to DENY a right to a segment of the population was even debated. I mean, come on.....and my feelings on this particular issue have no bearing on this. I would have this same reaction if someone proposed an amendment to ban prayer groups in schools, or ban cell phones in cars, etc. To use the very paper that we wave around......spouting out about truth and freedom for all....to deny a percentage of Americans (who aren't hurting ANYONE, BTW) just makes me sick. And the fact that people who were against same sex marriage thought that that was AOK scared the poop outta me. People followed Bush like a bunch of lemmings on this one, and that is frightening.

I always feel so saddened by threads like this, while I know the hostility is everywhere, I wish it wasn't. I have hope for our future generations. I know my DD13 and DS11 are friends with a few kids at school who are gay and one who thinks he may be, but is working it out, and my kids act like it is nothing at all. They are pretty puzzled by the whole debate among adults. And according to them, here, in this small rural community, noone their age cares one way or another. It's just part of life to them. I hope it stays that way.

Bless all of you.....you show a level of class in debating these issues that I don't think I could, especially when I know this board gets jumped on by :stir: so often.

Oh, by the by, on the original posted issue....I have OCD, a mental disorder. And as an official "NUT" I am of the opinion that the Pentagon is NUTZ. :teeth:

[cjnix29]

AMEN to 2Princes2Princesses!!!!! As for classifying it as a mental disorder...consider the source. Personally, I would like to classify being a Republican as a mental disorder.

[RickinNYC]

AMEN to 2Princes2Princesses!!!!! As for classifying it as a mental disorder...consider the source. Personally, I would like to classify being a Republican as a mental disorder.

Hey now. Some of my best friends are Republican.

[mickeyfan2]

I would like to classify being a Republican as a mental disorder.
Yeah!!!! Now I can get the government to pay for my treatment!!!!

Just kidding. ;)

[goofygirl]

Because even she didn't want to be blamed for carrying on the family name through procreation? :rotfl2:


:rotfl: :lmao:

[JerJan]

Straight girl here..... I can't understand why anyone thinks it's any of their business as to the sexual lifestyle that one has???? It's nobody's business but yours! Live your life the way that makes you and yours happy and to "H---" with everyone else!

[wallyb]

Can't speak for the rest of the community, but I, my partner and my friends actually happen to be incredibly boring homebodies. We cook dinner at home. A night out is dinner and a movie. We stroll the aisles of Barnes and Noble looking for the latest best seller. We walk our dog. We go to Disney World..

Good god - Paul and I are absolutely boring as well.
Not one rhinestone thingamabob or leather harness.
No Streisand, Midler, Liza, or Madonna CD to be found.

I can cook and arrange a" kick ***" vase of flowers. :flower3:

But on the bright side -
Now that we're NUTZ we're just a bit more interesting.

[L107ANGEL]

Straight girl here..... I can't understand why anyone thinks it's any of their business as to the sexual lifestyle that one has???? It's nobody's business but yours! Live your life the way that makes you and yours happy and to "H---" with everyone else!
I completely agree. I think the government and the religious leaders need to stay our of our damn bedrooms!

[disneyfan67]

NO that's the REPUBLICAN PARTY that is leading the decay of our culture!!! :rotfl2:


First off let me say hello to everyone here on this thread and this board. I've lurked for quite awhile and many times I was going to post then thought against it for some reason or another. I find this board very interesting at times and it's always good to get a feel for opinions from different people from different parts of the country. You really seem like nice people and for the most part treat everyone with respect. Now having said hello, I'll get to my point below.


The quote bolded above is stupid, IMO and serves no purpose other to flame and show a political bias which isn't needed on this thread. I'm a independant conservative with a healthy streak of libertarian in me as well. I have voted Republican on many issues and found that comment above almost childish. Come on, I've known people who are Democrats to the core and be against Gay people and their struggle to be treated fairly and equally. I've known a lot of good people that are Republicans and I'm glad that I'm friends with them.


I may not understand every aspect of Homosexuality or agree with some of you on every issue, but I'm open minded on a lot of it. It's my belief that being Gay is something that you're born with and part of your genetic make up. I know some people have been known to "switch teams" (shameless Seinfeld reference) in midlife but I don't think it's a choice as some would say. Is it a sickness or mental illness? I would say no, but I don't have any medical or scientific proof to show me if either side is right. I'm just going by what I feel in my heart. I've debated this over the years with myself and many others and feel that only God himself would only know the answer.


I feel that I'm in no postion to tell others who they can love or be together in some form of marriage or civil union. As long as it doesn't involve a underage person, then what business of it is mine? If you live together with someone you love, pay taxes and bills together, and want to get married with all the protections that it provides, good for you. I don't get the "Democrats are good, Republicans are evil" thing and think it's a bunch of B.S. Just my two cents. Thanks for listening.


Eddie

[JerJan]

Quote:
I think I am a fitting person to respond to you because I am very religious, overly traditional, etc. I even agree with part of your last statement that sexual deviancy will lead (let's be honest, it's happening now) to the decay of our culture. However, I do not think that homosexuality is deviant sexual behavior.



NO that's the REPUBLICAN PARTY that is leading the decay of our culture!!! :rotfl2:

DisneyFan67.... I was making a joke in regards to the captioned stament that was made by another poster....you seemed to have left that part out in your rant!


The quote bolded above is stupid, IMO and serves no purpose other to flame and show a political bias which isn't needed on this thread.


Who named you the "thread police" anyway??? And by the way I'm not STUPID.....

[Mama Twinkles]

I wish I had something of substance to add here, but just want to send out a hug to my peeps: :grouphug: Let us praise the fetal hormones that made us the beautiful people we are.

[MrVisible]

I started going through and thanking everyone who posted wonderful, supportive things in this thread, but I don't think the boards allow a post that long. To each and every one of you, thank you. You may never know how much your support means to me. It's people like you who are responsible for the progress I see, for the fact that the world today is a much better place for gay people than it was ten years ago. It's your support that gives me hope.

Doctor Pedantic, thank you for sharing your story. That was truly moving.
Discernment, I didn't "choose" to be gay, and you didn't "choose" to be straight. What we can choose, however, is whether to treat everyone -- even people who are different from us, even people with whom we have strong disagreements -- with dignity and respect.Well said.

[MrVisible]

JimFitz
Can someone explain the Gay Pride Parades to me?

...

How can I start a heterosexual parade so I can see some gorgeous blondes in leather?

Actually, all kidding aside, you need to admit that they are over the top and vulgar.
I can try.

For decades, for centuries, gay people whose sexuality was discovered were subject to ridicule, torture, prison, and death. In parts of the world, this is still true, and to a much lesser degree, it's still true here too. Knowing what we face, knowing that we could lose our families, our jobs, our housing, and even our lives, we still come out of the closet and live our lives openly as gay people. Being gay doesn't take courage, anyone can be born gay. But to live openly as a gay person is an act of bravery. Courage in the name of love.

That is why we're proud.

It seems the excesses of some of the gay community offend you. First of all, I urge you to remember that in any population, there will be a percentage of people who engage in relatively extreme activities. I can't explain them, but I'm betting you'd have trouble explaining swingers' clubs, strip clubs, wife-swapping, and the vast majority of the personal ads in my local independent paper.

Motes, beams, eyes, pot, kettle, black... that sort of thing. Can we agree that there's plenty of this behavior on either side of the fence, and that it pretty much balances out?

disneyfan67...
I don't get the "Democrats are good, Republicans are evil" thing and think it's a bunch of B.S. Just my two cents. Thanks for listening.
It's the Republicans who have pushed the anti-gay marriage amendment to the U.S. Constitution during the last two election cycles. It's the Republicans who have gotten state-level amendments passed in over forty states which render gay and lesbians second-class citizens in their state. It's Republicans who pal around with toxic organizations like Focus on the Family and the Family Research Council, which are dedicated to demonizing gay people.

I judge people and organizations based on their actions. And these are the actions of a movement that is dedicated to using myself and the people I love as a wedge to increase their hold on political power. Their stance on gay peoples' rights is cynically calculated to foster hostility and prejudice in order to increase their voting base.

Republicans may not be evil, but they are the enemy.

[MrVisible]

Oh, and I'd also like to join RickinNYC and wallyb in the roster of Boring Gay Couples.

Matter of fact, the moment I knew that my partner and I were meant for each other was when we discovered that we can both spend hours happily browsing office supply stores.

You just don't get any more boring than that.

[JimFitz]

I just dont get the Gay Male thing.....two men....hairy, muscles, sweaty....yuck.

Now lesbianism is a different story. :bounce: Two women, shapely, soft, smooth......I get that!!! ;) :woohoo:

[wallyb]

we can both spend hours happily browsing office supply stores. You just don't get any more boring than that.

You win ... again! :thumbsup2
THAT is boring. ::yes::

But you're wicked smart. ;)

[Doctor Pedantic]

Hey! We're boring, too! A great evening for us is when the kids are all in good moods and not fighting with each other, and they all go to bed early enough for us to watch America's Next Top Model or Kathy Griffin's Life on the D List before drifting off to sleep ourselves....

Oh, and we also love our Costco trips.

[L107ANGEL]

I just dont get the Gay Male thing.....two men....hairy, muscles, sweaty....yuck.

Now lesbianism is a different story. :bounce: Two women, shapely, soft, smooth......I get that!!! ;) :woohoo:

Perhaps you should give it a rest.

[JimFitz]

Perhaps you should give it a rest.

Perhaps not.

[L107ANGEL]

Perhaps not.
Jim, pm me ;)

[JimFitz]

I'm busting chops!!!

[L107ANGEL]

I'm busting chops!!!


Fair enough!! Do tyou still want pics of me? :rotfl:

[2Princes2Princesses]

MrVisible-

OMG!! I could SOOO spend thousands of dollars in Office Max!!! DH and I LOVE that store. :teeth:

[Ex Cast Member]

JimFitz:
Quote:
Actually, all kidding aside, you need to admit that they are over the top and vulgar.

As if heteros are never "over the top & vulgar". I think that picketing funerals is not only "over the top & vulgar" but also inhuman.

...and have you ever been to WDW during Obnoxious Cheerleader week?...but then again, that seems to be your thing. ;)

[MrVisible]

Hey! We're boring, too! A great evening for us is when the kids are all in good moods and not fighting with each other, and they all go to bed early enough for us to watch America's Next Top Model or Kathy Griffin's Life on the D List before drifting off to sleep ourselves....

Oh, and we also love our Costco trips.

Hey, now... this gives me an idea. (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1144355)

[LuluLovesDisney]

Hey, now... this gives me an idea. (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1144355)

What a great thread! This is exactly what I was talking about in my earlier post!

[JimFitz]

JimFitz:
Quote:
Actually, all kidding aside, you need to admit that they are over the top and vulgar.

As if heteros are never "over the top & vulgar". I think that picketing funerals is not only "over the top & vulgar" but also inhuman.

...and have you ever been to WDW during Obnoxious Cheerleader week?...but then again, that seems to be your thing. ;)

Cheerleaders!?? popcorn:: :stir:

[LuluLovesDisney]

Cheerleaders!?? popcorn:: :stir:

speaking of "deviants". . . .

[Rence]

I don't get the "Democrats are good, Republicans are evil" thing and think it's a bunch of B.S.


Actually to an extent I agree with you. Most significant change comes when both parties get on-board. For example, here in Wisconsin we had the first state-wide anti-discrimination law that included sexual preference. It was signed into law by a Republican govenor and would not have passed without Republican votes.

Now don't get me wrong - overall the Democratic party is far more supportive of gay rights issues than the Republicans. But we have friends in the Republican party and there are some Democrats that are less than supportive.

The idea: Republicans Evil - Democrats Good - is an idea pushed by the Democrats so that folks will void Democrat without thinking about it as a simple knee jerk reaction. It makes elections ever so much easier. And the Republicans do the same thing - the demonize the Democrats to get a portion of the population to believe that a vote for a Democrat is a vote for Satan himself. None of this really benefits the country or the electoral process.

We will never achieve equality in this country if we put all our eggs in one political party's basket. We will need support from both parties and we should never completely write off the Republicans.

This is a hard arguement to make in light of the current political climate. At this point in time I cannot support any Republican candidate. The party has decided to play the homophobia card with their push for constituational amendments against same-sex marriage with the arguement that if two people the same sex get married it will put an end to the institution of marriage worldwide. It is a vile and dispicable campaign ploy and I hope that the Republicans take a sound beating at the polls this November. But I also hope that more rationale voices will arise within the Republican party and they will change their position.

Remember in the past it was the Democrats who were the more racist party. It was the Democrats who were opposed to civil rights etc at the early part of the last century. Overtime a more rational element arose in the party and they were able to free the party from their racist past and are now viewed as the more inclusive and diverse party. Political parties evolve and I am hopeful that the Republicans will realize the error of their ways.

While I do not wish to be a part of it, I do respect the Log Cabin Republicans for working for change from within. I am a registered Democrat and I will be voting straight ticket Democrat this year. But I do hold out hope for the Republican party.

[PoohnPglet]

MrVisible - I was awestruck and captivated by your ability to deal with posters like Sonno and discernment. I find that I tend to get so angry when trying to speak rationally with those kinds of people that I become quite irrational and end up defeating my own purpose. I really admire your cool-headedness (is that a word?) and intellect!

Rick – I love you and you always impress me beyond words! What you said was not blasting or insulting. Unfortunately, it is reality for far too many. You must have hit on a guilty conscience. Oh, and I am gonna blow your cover and report that you are not THAT boring – unless that was someone else I was shakin’ my booty with at Mannequins? Let’s not forget about that Super Hero costume we designed for you either!

Doctor Pedantic – I am so glad that your story has a happy ending. Your children are so much the better for your decision to “correct” your lifestyle. I am the product of an incredibly dysfunctional hetro marriage. There is something in my dad that makes him the most unhappy person I have ever met in my life. It is no surprise that he is a barely functioning alcoholic. I do not know what he is trying to self-medicate, but believe me, seeing my dad happy would mean more to me than anything. Your children are lucky that you were smart enough to choose a normal life for yourself and for them.


Goofygirl – WDW parades and gay pride parades may have more in common than you think!

Hopefully, for as dark as it seems right now, we are actually about to see the light. When I was 15, I didn’t really even understand what being gay meant and you didn’t speak openly of anything homosexual, certainly not in public. Move ahead to now. One of my son’s classes this year had a debate about gay marriage. He was very nervous that day because he fully intended to support the issue and was not sure how that was going to be perceived. He came home and was very happy to report that he had not been alone. In fact, many in the class agreed with him.

[disneyfan67]

NO that's the REPUBLICAN PARTY that is leading the decay of our culture!!! :rotfl2:

DisneyFan67.... I was making a joke in regards to the captioned stament that was made by another poster....you seemed to have left that part out in your rant!



Who named you the "thread police" anyway??? And by the way I'm not STUPID.....


First off let me apologise for the mistake I made in blaming you for the quote I had bolded. I admit when I make a mistake and I'm sorry. I wasn't calling you stupid, just the blind following of any political party by anybody. I don't drink the "kool aid" from any politcal party and was trying to make a point. I goofed and was in no way thinking you were stupid, my fault again, sorry.

Believe it or not, I wasn't ranting, I was just trying to add my thoughts and input to the discussion. I meant no harm and was joining in, sorry if I offended you. Wasn't even thinking about being the thread police either, there is others on this board who do that quite well.

[Mugg Mann]

MrVisible-

I was led to this thread by a link over in the community board where discernment was attempting to spread his particular type of "gospel" in another thread.

I've just taken in this entire thread here over my 6 am cup of caffiene, and one thing really leaps out at me;

My compliments on the dignity and grace with which you have comported yourself throughout this thread, and especially so in light of how personally you must have felt.

I can only wish that more people in the real world could conduct themselves with the intelligence, class and logic that you have demonstrated here.

[Mugg Mann]

I almost forgot; some good humorous shots by the other posters as well!

Rick, as an unofficial playful sarcasm major in college, I've always enjoyed looking forward to your comments, but your passioned response to discernment was one of the best posts I've read anywhere in a long while. My compliments as well!

Anyways, it's about time for this heterosexual "godless heathen" to jump back up to the lurking post......

[MrVisible]

MrVisible-

I was led to this thread by a link over in the community board where discernment was attempting to spread his particular type of "gospel" in another thread.

I've just taken in this entire thread here over my 6 am cup of caffiene, and one thing really leaps out at me;

My compliments on the dignity and grace with which you have comported yourself throughout this thread, and especially so in light of how personally you must have felt.

I can only wish that more people in the real world could conduct themselves with the intelligence, class and logic that you have demonstrated here.
Sincerely, thank you. That was a wonderful thing to hear.

[AnaheimGirl]

I just dont get the Gay Male thing.....two men....hairy, muscles, sweaty....yuck.

Now lesbianism is a different story. :bounce: Two women, shapely, soft, smooth......I get that!!! ;) :woohoo: :lmao: :lmao: Look who's "over-the-top and vulgar" now!

I get it. It's deviant if you don't find it attractive. :rolleyes2

[RickinNYC]

MrVisible - I was awestruck and captivated by your ability to deal with posters like Sonno and discernment. I find that I tend to get so angry when trying to speak rationally with those kinds of people that I become quite irrational and end up defeating my own purpose. I really admire your cool-headedness (is that a word?) and intellect!

Rick – I love you and you always impress me beyond words! What you said was not blasting or insulting. Unfortunately, it is reality for far too many. You must have hit on a guilty conscience. Oh, and I am gonna blow your cover and report that you are not THAT boring – unless that was someone else I was shakin’ my booty with at Mannequins? Let’s not forget about that Super Hero costume we designed for you either!

Doctor Pedantic – I am so glad that your story has a happy ending. Your children are so much the better for your decision to “correct” your lifestyle. I am the product of an incredibly dysfunctional hetro marriage. There is something in my dad that makes him the most unhappy person I have ever met in my life. It is no surprise that he is a barely functioning alcoholic. I do not know what he is trying to self-medicate, but believe me, seeing my dad happy would mean more to me than anything. Your children are lucky that you were smart enough to choose a normal life for yourself and for them.


Goofygirl – WDW parades and gay pride parades may have more in common than you think!

Hopefully, for as dark as it seems right now, we are actually about to see the light. When I was 15, I didn’t really even understand what being gay meant and you didn’t speak openly of anything homosexual, certainly not in public. Move ahead to now. One of my son’s classes this year had a debate about gay marriage. He was very nervous that day because he fully intended to support the issue and was not sure how that was going to be perceived. He came home and was very happy to report that he had not been alone. In fact, many in the class agreed with him.

Wendy, don't give up all me secrets!! LOL!

Joe and I can't wait to see you in two months!!!!!

[RickinNYC]

I almost forgot; some good humorous shots by the other posters as well!

Rick, as an unofficial playful sarcasm major in college, I've always enjoyed looking forward to your comments, but your passioned response to discernment was one of the best posts I've read anywhere in a long while. My compliments as well!

Anyways, it's about time for this heterosexual "godless heathen" to jump back up to the lurking post......

Thanks dude. I lift my WL mug in your honor! Salute!

[JimFitz]

:lmao: :lmao: Look who's "over-the-top and vulgar" now!

I get it. It's deviant if you don't find it attractive. :rolleyes2


I never said it was deviant....just said I dont understand it.

[MrVisible]

I never said it was deviant....just said I dont understand it.
That's certainly reasonable.

Think about it this way. I feel about women the same way you feel about men: I can recognize when someone is beautiful, but I'm not really physically attracted to them. Also, I feel about men the same way you feel about women: there are certain ones who I'm just massively attracted to, some I'm moderately attracted to, some are okay, etcetera...

Just because you're not attracted to men doesn't mean men aren't attractive. After all, women find you attractive, right? That must mean there's something there to be attracted to. It just doesn't work for you, that's all.

[Mugg Mann]

Thanks dude. I lift my WL mug in your honor! Salute!

Rick...that WL mug of yours better be empty! I shudder to think about the reaction if posters on the DIS discovered that no less than a moderator refilled a WL mug after leaving the lodge..... :rotfl:

[RickinNYC]

Rick...that WL mug of yours better be empty! I shudder to think about the reaction if posters on the DIS discovered that no less than a moderator refilled a WL mug after leaving the lodge..... :rotfl:

Of course! And I don't pool hop, give up my seat on buses, cut lines for attractions... oh the list goes on.

[aidensdad]

Rick Man you don't pool hop well there goes one of my Idea's for our meet in August :confused3

[sotoalf]

As a gay man, I'll tell you what I can't stand: when people say, "Why would someone choose a lifestyle which leads to so much pain?"

There's yet no definitive scientific evidence to tell us whether it's a choice or orientation. But if it WAS a choice, then I'm proud of it. And if I had the choice to take a pill which would make me heterosexual, I'd rather burn in the eternal hell Christianists have devised for me than take it. Christ said, If your right hand is causing you to sin, then it's better to remove it. Well, I say, if the right hand is harming no one else, I'd rather keep it, thank you very much.

[RickinNYC]

Rick Man you don't pool hop well there goes one of my Idea's for our meet in August :confused3

Dude, there's a lot I won't do... but during that meet in August, there's a lot I won't be held accountable for due to over use of margaritas.

[Tony-NJ]

No Streisand, Midler, Liza, or Madonna CD to be found.

:earseek: No Madonna??? :confused3

Please add me and Partner to the boring list. His favorite thing to do is go to the super market.. :rolleyes:

[Boston5602]

2. Homosexuality is a choice. You can not point to any piece of medical or scientific evidence that proves the theory of homosexuality being inborn. There is no "gay" gene
3. There are recovering homosexuals out there that have turned away from their previous choice.
4. As I stated on a previous thread, the gay rights movement is also helping along the cause of homosexual groups such as NAMBLA to further their agenda. I find homosexuality and pedophilia both to be abnormal, deviant sexual behaviors.
5. I agree with previous people on this thread that no honest discourse can be between the two sides on this issue because in this PC world if you speak out against homosexuality you are immediately labeled a homophobe, bigot, clansman, part of sick groups like godhatesfags.com as I was called in another thread. I will probably getted banned for even posting on this thread even at Rick's request.
6. I believe that the gay agenda has been purposely forwarded by the concept of incrementalism.




2-You can not point to any piece of medical or scientific evidence that proves the theory of homosexuality NOT being inborn. There could be a "gay" gene

3- I believe there are bisexual and gay people who find the hate and discrimination so intollerable from the family and friends who say they love them , they choose to lie and be miserable.

4-NAMBLA is NOT a homosexual group, it's a pedophile group who I DETEST. It's like saying all white people are members of the KKK ( and I'm not )

6- I wish someone would forward me a copy of the " Gay Agenda "


In the natural order of the world, heterosexuality is not a choice. People are naturally born heterosexual in order to procreate.

Dotty, I am sorry but can you point to medical and/or sceintific proof that people are born gay?

I can not answer why people chose to be gay anymore than i can answer why people engage in all sorts of harmful and negative behavior.

In the natural order of things - you have god's creatures in the world that are homosexual . Many species in the world are NOT strictly heterosexual., you have species that do not need a mate and then you have species that need a mate and when theres a group of just a single sex they can change themselves from male to female to mate.

May I ask on what day did you wake up and make your choice to not be a homosexual? You must have contemplated the choice to be gay .

I believe GOD has given gay people the strength to be who they are , for people are overpopulating GOD's planet and GOD see's only one way to save all his creation---Homosexuality. This thought is the choice I make-- not my sexuality ,and I choose to believe god speaks to me this truth.

Save the planet Be Gay

Even though my legal rights are denied me I will get up in the morning drop the kids off at Daycare , commute to work , work hard all day to drive home pick up kids help with dinner , pets and kids . Spend some quite time with my family .I do this 5 days a week so I can pay my bills and pay my TAXES and spend my weekends mowing the lawn , planting flowers , and cleaning the pool. All the while I have neighbors who think how abnormal I am because I'm not heterosexual.

I'm sure this or something else like this has been said in this thread but I couldn't wait to the end to open my big mouth.

" Read it , hateedddd iittttt , Love yah , meannnn ittttt !!!! "

pirate:

[Boston5602]

No one answered my question about seeing gorgeous blondes in leather. ;)

Let me put my wig on, I'm already wearing the leather. :rotfl:





I knew I should have read all the post first . I'm only have way through and see so many others stated my thoughts more precise and eloquently. I was gonna edit it out all of my post , but will leave it.

[Boston5602]

Oh, and I'd also like to join RickinNYC and wallyb in the roster of Boring Gay Couples.

Matter of fact, the moment I knew that my partner and I were meant for each other was when we discovered that we can both spend hours happily browsing office supply stores.

You just don't get any more boring than that.


OH MY GOD , I thought something was wrong with me . My favorite store is STAPLES , ( that and Best Buy oh , and I guess IKEA ) I can spend hours there . Now I just need to find a man who likes a boring guy with two kids, mows the lawn does laundry , likes to read and watch movies , who owns dvc and goes twice a year to Disney. Anyone.....anyone.....? :rotfl:

[JimFitz]

Here is a good one!!

Guess where me, the wife, and the kids wound up yesterday???


We took the kids to the Childrens Museum on 83rd street and after we were done, I figured we would take them to the World of Disney store on 5th Ave.

Well we take the car there and notice everything blocked off. I was wondering what was going on and my wife said it must be some type of street fair. I decide to drive over to the east side, park the car and walk over a few blocks.

As we get closer it gets more and more crowded and we are now a block away from the Disney store......I see alot of people milling around and here "It's Raining Men" blasting from a 5th AVE float. I turn and ask a cop what was going on and he replies "It's the Gay Pride Parade". The wife and I look at each other, smile and proceed to the Disney store. My little guys were having a great time.....there was one float with all guys in Speedos with super soaker water guns spraying each other and the crowd. My one son screams out daddy, those guys have huge guns!!!!! Needless to say, that got a laugh from me and the wife. Oh and the wife......she had a fun time admiring all the half naked men. I kept saying "you know there gay and you dont have a shot", and she replied "yeah, shutup and let me look" ;)

Fun parade, great trip to the Disney store and the Childrens museum. Only downside????? Wife wants me to get in better shape.........no bacon and eggs today. ;)





:rotfl: :rotfl:

[amykissangel]

First, welcome to the DIS! Keep on posting!

Second, it makes us sad as well.

Rick,

Thanks for welcoming me to the boards! Have a great day! (I hope someone does, since it's pouring in Green Bay, WI :) )

[Caradana]

Here is a good one!!

Guess where me, the wife, and the kids wound up yesterday???


We took the kids to the Childrens Museum on 83rd street and after we were done, I figured we would take them to the World of Disney store on 5th Ave.

Well we take the car there and notice everything blocked off. I was wondering what was going on and my wife said it must be some type of street fair. I decide to drive over to the east side, park the car and walk over a few blocks.

As we get closer it gets more and more crowded and we are now a block away from the Disney store......I see alot of people milling around and here "It's Raining Men" blasting from a 5th AVE float. I turn and ask a cop what was going on and he replies "It's the Gay Pride Parade". The wife and I look at each other, smile and proceed to the Disney store. My little guys were having a great time.....there was one float with all guys in Speedos with super soaker water guns spraying each other and the crowd. My one son screams out daddy, those guys have huge guns!!!!! Needless to say, that got a laugh from me and the wife. Oh and the wife......she had a fun time admiring all the half naked men. I kept saying "you know there gay and you dont have a shot", and she replied "yeah, shutup and let me look" ;)

Fun parade, great trip to the Disney store and the Childrens museum. Only downside????? Wife wants me to get in better shape.........no bacon and eggs today. ;)

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Jim,

Six of us girls (all straight) were practically salivating out the windows at a cocktail party yesterday in the West Village, watching the parade pass by. YUM. Oh, the muscles. Tell your wife that I relate!

[silverspark7]

Hey everyone...I thought I would share a quote that some of you might find funny. My best friend and roommate is gay, and this is his absolute favorite:

If homosexuality is a disease, let's all call in queer to work: "Hello. Can't work today, still queer."

[DVC~OKW~96]

LOLOLOL! I love that one silverspark! I used to have it hanging up in my office.

I like another one I've seen too, "I chose to be homosexual the same day you chose to be heterosexual."

Sometimes you just have to turn it around for others to see the silliness of some of the parroted comments.

[LuluLovesDisney]

Jim,

Six of us girls (all straight) were practically salivating out the windows at a cocktail party yesterday in the West Village, watching the parade pass by. YUM. Oh, the muscles. Tell your wife that I relate!

Last time I was in the city, there was a parade where everyone dressed up as flowers and birds. (I still don't know what that was) Why do I miss the good ones?

[hamlet35_2000]

Giving you guys a heads up:

It should come as no surprise-- discernment is at it again.... this time on the community boards... this guy does not give up spouting his hate and then claiming we are the ones with the "agenda"

Here is the thread: I shouldn't be surpsrised at this point... in the Community Board. Go there for the show (although its more of a sequel to what he said here, not getting much support over there either though)

[MrVisible]

Giving you guys a heads up:

It should come as no surprise-- discernment is at it again.... this time on the community boards... this guy does not give up spouting his hate and then claiming we are the ones with the "agenda"

Here is the thread: I shouldn't be surpsrised at this point... in the Community Board. Go there for the show (although its more of a sequel to what he said here, not getting much support over there either though)
You know, this is what always happens. These people never learn; they don't want to learn. They just want to spout their opinions, misinformed and irrational as they are, and as soon as they get any opposition, they go whining off to their caves for a week or two, and then pop up somewhere else with the same inane drivel.

It's like a hellish game of Whack-A-Mole.

I've waded into the fray over in that thread (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1142760). Come join in, or just watch the show. Should be fun.

[Miss Jasmine]

I know this thread has moved off the original topic, but I just had to say that it's so sad that there are people who can't see love for love. I am a conservative, Christian, Republican and I believe that government has no place legislating what goes on in the "bedroom". Some say I border on being a Libertarian, and yeah maybe I am closer to that, but I am registered Republican, and believe me I am not adding to the decay of this country. ;)

Anyway, I wanted you to know that there are people like me who believe that no matter the gender of who you love, you should have the right to be married. Heck, I was reading the "gay lifestyle" thread, and I think a lot of you have better relationships than many heterosexual couples, marriages that end in divorce. Last time I checked, the bible had some words about divorce, but divorce is allowed. Legislating morality, eroding the rights of the people scares the crap out of me.

[DisneyDotty]

It's like a hellish game of Whack-A-Mole.

:rotfl2: This is my new favorite quote. Can you make it into a bumper sticker?
And yes, this whole discussion is a big Whack.

I've waded into the fray over in that thread (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1142760). Come join in, or just watch the show. Should be fun.

Nooooo---run away! Run away! It's a big bleeding Whack over there! :sunny:

[amykissangel]

I guess my question to the OP and those who agree...why do you care? Why is it SO important to you to tell others how wrong their lifestyle is? Are they killers? Are they molesting children? Are they terrorists?

If you answered, "Some of them are," then I'm here to tell you that the same can be said for straight individuals.

My point is this: If the reason you're telling homosexuals that they are sinners is because you're religious, then stop and think about what God wants you to do. He wants you to love others as He loves us...if you've expressed your opinion and homosexuals haven't magically converted to heterosexuals, then stop it. Just stop it and accept them for who they are. You can still feel superior and feel as though you've done "God's Will," and when YOU get to Heaven, you can tell God that you did your best.

My cousin is Catholic, gay, and believes that God put him here to face the hatred and adversity of those small-minded enough to deny someone their rights based on their sexuality.

A music teacher of mine was married to a man who later told her he was gay. They had two children, and what she thought was a happy life...until he told her that he hated himself for what he had become: a liar. He lied and told her that he was in love with her, and married her. He loved her, but he was gay; he was attracted to another men, had feelings of being "in love" with another men, and they divorced.

Trying to conform to the beliefs that many people here have posted, he ruined his own life, and the lives of his family members by pretending to be something he wasn't.

My friend committed suicide because he was gay, but his family couldn't accept it. He had options: becoming a Preist (who was gay, but could never have sex), or pretending he was something he wasn't his whole life. He chose the latter, and the depression was so bad, he killed himself.

Why, oh why, do you have to spread this hatred? I know, I know. It's not hatred. It's just your opinion. And granted there's nothing to prove that there is a "gay gene." But if my cousin and friend and my teacher's husband tried and tried and tried to conform and change, and they couldn't, is that at ALL getting through to anyone?

So what? Do you want them in an institution somewhere where they can't infect others with their poisonous ideas? I don't understand why you just can't let these people be? How are they bothering you? How is their sex life, home life, love life bothering YOU?

YOU'RE not doing anything "wrong." YOU'RE following God's laws. YOU did the "good" thing and tried to "change" your fellow man. So let it go. You did what you were "supposed" to do. Let these people have some peace. Let them love whomever they choose to love because that's how they feel inside.

If you were told that you couldn't be with your husband or wife, the person you love, or if you were told you couldn't pursue someone you were attracted to, would you be okay with it? Would you sit back and say, "Oh, okay. Some people and a couple verses in the Bible tell me I can't be with my significant other and that my love isn't valid. It's wrong and perverted and disgusting. So I'll just live my life alone without that person to complete me. No prob." Are you KIDDING me? You'd fight tooth and nail to have the rights that you DESERVE.

Feel free to look down on those who deserve it: abusers, molestors, killers, rapists, arsonists, terrorists, etc. etc. etc. They did something that could affect you in a terrible way one day. You could be abused, molested, killed, raped, your house burned down, or your town could be bombed.

What are homosexuals doing to hurt you? To cause you harm? They're not doing ANYTHING to you AT ALL, but you still feel the need to hurt them. I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND. I don't. I can't. My parents, who grew up in a small rural community in da UP (Upper Penninsula, for those of you who weren't fortunate enough to visit :) ), are having a very hard time with my cousin's coming out. My Dad just thinks it's "gross" for two guys to be together. My Mom is having religious issues, the same as many of you are. But they know my cousin. They know he loves Broadway, Bernadette Peters, and Disney. They know he hates red meat and adores sour cream and onion chips. And they know he woudl never do anything to hurt himself or his family. They know he would never choose such a difficult life...why, why would you Choose the pain that comes with being homosexual? Of telling your family, friends, of being afraid you won't be accepted?

And I leave you with my last thought: Let's say new Susie at work comes up to you and says, "Hey, I want to introduce you to my boyfriend." Do you immidietly picture them having sex? Or wonder if they're having pre-marital sex and are committing a sin? Good. Me neither. So if a woman comes up to you and says, "Hey, I want to introduce you to my partner, Lisa," why do you immidietly picture their sex life and see them as different? That's your own problem - if you can't look at a person and not see their sex life (which is what you all seem to have a problem with)? Gross. Have fun with that...I don't want to be introduced to you, that's for sure.

BTW, I really AM sorry this is so long.

[joestv]

I guess my question to the OP and those who agree...why do you care? Why is it SO important to you to tell others how wrong their lifestyle is? Are they killers? Are they molesting children? Are they terrorists?

If you answered, "Some of them are," then I'm here to tell you that the same can be said for straight individuals.

My point is this: If the reason you're telling homosexuals that they are sinners is because you're religious, then stop and think about what God wants you to do. He wants you to love others as He loves us...if you've expressed your opinion and homosexuals haven't magically converted to heterosexuals, then stop it. Just stop it and accept them for who they are. You can still feel superior and feel as though you've done "God's Will," and when YOU get to Heaven, you can tell God that you did your best.

My cousin is Catholic, gay, and believes that God put him here to face the hatred and adversity of those small-minded enough to deny someone their rights based on their sexuality.

A music teacher of mine was married to a man who later told her he was gay. They had two children, and what she thought was a happy life...until he told her that he hated himself for what he had become: a liar. He lied and told her that he was in love with her, and married her. He loved her, but he was gay; he was attracted to another men, had feelings of being "in love" with another men, and they divorced.

Trying to conform to the beliefs that many people here have posted, he ruined his own life, and the lives of his family members by pretending to be something he wasn't.

My friend committed suicide because he was gay, but his family couldn't accept it. He had options: becoming a Preist (who was gay, but could never have sex), or pretending he was something he wasn't his whole life. He chose the latter, and the depression was so bad, he killed himself.

Why, oh why, do you have to spread this hatred? I know, I know. It's not hatred. It's just your opinion. And granted there's nothing to prove that there is a "gay gene." But if my cousin and friend and my teacher's husband tried and tried and tried to conform and change, and they couldn't, is that at ALL getting through to anyone?

So what? Do you want them in an institution somewhere where they can't infect others with their poisonous ideas? I don't understand why you just can't let these people be? How are they bothering you? How is their sex life, home life, love life bothering YOU?

YOU'RE not doing anything "wrong." YOU'RE following God's laws. YOU did the "good" thing and tried to "change" your fellow man. So let it go. You did what you were "supposed" to do. Let these people have some peace. Let them love whomever they choose to love because that's how they feel inside.

If you were told that you couldn't be with your husband or wife, the person you love, or if you were told you couldn't pursue someone you were attracted to, would you be okay with it? Would you sit back and say, "Oh, okay. Some people and a couple verses in the Bible tell me I can't be with my significant other and that my love isn't valid. It's wrong and perverted and disgusting. So I'll just live my life alone without that person to complete me. No prob." Are you KIDDING me? You'd fight tooth and nail to have the rights that you DESERVE.

Feel free to look down on those who deserve it: abusers, molestors, killers, rapists, arsonists, terrorists, etc. etc. etc. They did something that could affect you in a terrible way one day. You could be abused, molested, killed, raped, your house burned down, or your town could be bombed.

What are homosexuals doing to hurt you? To cause you harm? They're not doing ANYTHING to you AT ALL, but you still feel the need to hurt them. I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND. I don't. I can't. My parents, who grew up in a small rural community in da UP (Upper Penninsula, for those of you who weren't fortunate enough to visit :) ), are having a very hard time with my cousin's coming out. My Dad just thinks it's "gross" for two guys to be together. My Mom is having religious issues, the same as many of you are. But they know my cousin. They know he loves Broadway, Bernadette Peters, and Disney. They know he hates red meat and adores sour cream and onion chips. And they know he woudl never do anything to hurt himself or his family. They know he would never choose such a difficult life...why, why would you Choose the pain that comes with being homosexual? Of telling your family, friends, of being afraid you won't be accepted?

And I leave you with my last thought: Let's say new Susie at work comes up to you and says, "Hey, I want to introduce you to my boyfriend." Do you immidietly picture them having sex? Or wonder if they're having pre-marital sex and are committing a sin? Good. Me neither. So if a woman comes up to you and says, "Hey, I want to introduce you to my partner, Lisa," why do you immidietly picture their sex life and see them as different? That's your own problem - if you can't look at a person and not see their sex life (which is what you all seem to have a problem with)? Gross. Have fun with that...I don't want to be introduced to you, that's for sure.

BTW, I really AM sorry this is so long.
:thanks: :thumbsup2

[RickinNYC]

Amykissangel, you are awesome! And I'm sorry you lost your best friend. Truely, deeply sorry.

[MrVisible]

amykissangel, that was an amazing post. Thank you.

[amykissangel]

Thank you three for your very sweet and kind words...I've been over at the WDWMagic boards for a while, and thought maybe I should branch out and visit some others. VERY glad I did :goodvibes

[disneyfan67]

I know this thread has moved off the original topic, but I just had to say that it's so sad that there are people who can't see love for love. I am a conservative, Christian, Republican and I believe that government has no place legislating what goes on in the "bedroom". Some say I border on being a Libertarian, and yeah maybe I am closer to that, but I am registered Republican, and believe me I am not adding to the decay of this country. ;)

Anyway, I wanted you to know that there are people like me who believe that no matter the gender of who you love, you should have the right to be married. Heck, I was reading the "gay lifestyle" thread, and I think a lot of you have better relationships than many heterosexual couples, marriages that end in divorce. Last time I checked, the bible had some words about divorce, but divorce is allowed. Legislating morality, eroding the rights of the people scares the crap out of me.



I have to say that this was an excellent post as well. I don't go to church or practice any faith, but I have to say I'm pretty close to your way of thinking. I also fit the conservative Republican/ libertarian mold that you describe and I feel like you do. I don't see how two people of the same sex who want to marry and live together as a loving couple, affects me in anyway. 20 years ago I felt differently but that's what time, learning, and undertanding other people who are different from you, will have an affect on you. It really does seem that a lot of Gay couples have long term relationships and are very happy together. It also seems that they outlast a lot of Hetrosexual marriages and relationships as well. Good for them and God bless, I really mean that. I've looked at some profiles of members here on this board and they been together with their partner longer than I've been legally married. So why not let two people who are in love have all the legal protections I do?


As a conservative and part libertarian, I believe in less Goverment interferance and allowing people to chart their own course and destiny. The Goverment should stay out of the marriage business and only protect or have laws to protect minors or people not mentally capable of entering into a legal contract such as marriage. That's just my opinion.

[mimimom]

no one could have said it better and GOD bless you and your cousin Mimimom

[disneyfan67]

Thank you three for your very sweet and kind words...I've been over at the WDWMagic boards for a while, and thought maybe I should branch out and visit some others. VERY glad I did :goodvibes



You post might have been long but it really made me think about a lot of what you said. You did a excellent job as well and I'm going to make sure I implement some of what you said into my life. I like what you said in the quote below. I was guilty of that at times but I'll make sure to remember and remind myself of what you wrote, if I ever go down that path again.

Let's say new Susie at work comes up to you and says, "Hey, I want to introduce you to my boyfriend." Do you immidietly picture them having sex? Or wonder if they're having pre-marital sex and are committing a sin? Good. Me neither. So if a woman comes up to you and says, "Hey, I want to introduce you to my partner, Lisa," why do you immidietly picture their sex life and see them as different? That's your own problem - if you can't look at a person and not see their sex life (which is what you all seem to have a problem with)? Gross. Have fun with that...I don't want to be introduced to you, that's for sure.


Good job and well done. :thumbsup2

[AnaheimGirl]

I know this thread has moved off the original topic, but I just had to say that it's so sad that there are people who can't see love for love. I am a conservative, Christian, Republican and I believe that government has no place legislating what goes on in the "bedroom". Some say I border on being a Libertarian, and yeah maybe I am closer to that, but I am registered Republican, and believe me I am not adding to the decay of this country. ;)

Anyway, I wanted you to know that there are people like me who believe that no matter the gender of who you love, you should have the right to be married. Heck, I was reading the "gay lifestyle" thread, and I think a lot of you have better relationships than many heterosexual couples, marriages that end in divorce. Last time I checked, the bible had some words about divorce, but divorce is allowed. Legislating morality, eroding the rights of the people scares the crap out of me. ::yes:: Hey, are you my long-lost twin? Your first paragraph describes me to a T. But then, the vast majority of Christian republicans I know IRL feel exactly the same way, so maybe it's only unusual on the DIS. :confused3

and amykissangel, I have to add my kudos for a great post, as well. :thumbsup2

[mimimom]

Hey has anyone heard Pinks new song Dear Mr President? It really is very good. She has alot of valid points. I had just pulled my car into the garage when the song came on the radio, I sat and listened. When I got into the house the phone rang it was my 17 year old DS(who just came out in February) he says, I just heard the most amazing song! we had been listening to the same song at the same time(he was on his way to work) Well anyway if any of you get a chance bringm it up on the computer and download it , listen to it and give me your thoughts, Im curious how everyone will react to this song :Pinkbounc Mimimom

[bubie2.5]

I guess my question to the OP and those who agree...why do you care? Why is it SO important to you to tell others how wrong their lifestyle is? Are they killers? Are they molesting children? Are they terrorists?

If you answered, "Some of them are," then I'm here to tell you that the same can be said for straight individuals.

My point is this: If the reason you're telling homosexuals that they are sinners is because you're religious, then stop and think about what God wants you to do. He wants you to love others as He loves us...if you've expressed your opinion and homosexuals haven't magically converted to heterosexuals, then stop it. Just stop it and accept them for who they are. You can still feel superior and feel as though you've done "God's Will," and when YOU get to Heaven, you can tell God that you did your best.

My cousin is Catholic, gay, and believes that God put him here to face the hatred and adversity of those small-minded enough to deny someone their rights based on their sexuality.

A music teacher of mine was married to a man who later told her he was gay. They had two children, and what she thought was a happy life...until he told her that he hated himself for what he had become: a liar. He lied and told her that he was in love with her, and married her. He loved her, but he was gay; he was attracted to another men, had feelings of being "in love" with another men, and they divorced.

Trying to conform to the beliefs that many people here have posted, he ruined his own life, and the lives of his family members by pretending to be something he wasn't.

My friend committed suicide because he was gay, but his family couldn't accept it. He had options: becoming a Preist (who was gay, but could never have sex), or pretending he was something he wasn't his whole life. He chose the latter, and the depression was so bad, he killed himself.

Why, oh why, do you have to spread this hatred? I know, I know. It's not hatred. It's just your opinion. And granted there's nothing to prove that there is a "gay gene." But if my cousin and friend and my teacher's husband tried and tried and tried to conform and change, and they couldn't, is that at ALL getting through to anyone?

So what? Do you want them in an institution somewhere where they can't infect others with their poisonous ideas? I don't understand why you just can't let these people be? How are they bothering you? How is their sex life, home life, love life bothering YOU?

YOU'RE not doing anything "wrong." YOU'RE following God's laws. YOU did the "good" thing and tried to "change" your fellow man. So let it go. You did what you were "supposed" to do. Let these people have some peace. Let them love whomever they choose to love because that's how they feel inside.

If you were told that you couldn't be with your husband or wife, the person you love, or if you were told you couldn't pursue someone you were attracted to, would you be okay with it? Would you sit back and say, "Oh, okay. Some people and a couple verses in the Bible tell me I can't be with my significant other and that my love isn't valid. It's wrong and perverted and disgusting. So I'll just live my life alone without that person to complete me. No prob." Are you KIDDING me? You'd fight tooth and nail to have the rights that you DESERVE.

Feel free to look down on those who deserve it: abusers, molestors, killers, rapists, arsonists, terrorists, etc. etc. etc. They did something that could affect you in a terrible way one day. You could be abused, molested, killed, raped, your house burned down, or your town could be bombed.

What are homosexuals doing to hurt you? To cause you harm? They're not doing ANYTHING to you AT ALL, but you still feel the need to hurt them. I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND. I don't. I can't. My parents, who grew up in a small rural community in da UP (Upper Penninsula, for those of you who weren't fortunate enough to visit :) ), are having a very hard time with my cousin's coming out. My Dad just thinks it's "gross" for two guys to be together. My Mom is having religious issues, the same as many of you are. But they know my cousin. They know he loves Broadway, Bernadette Peters, and Disney. They know he hates red meat and adores sour cream and onion chips. And they know he woudl never do anything to hurt himself or his family. They know he would never choose such a difficult life...why, why would you Choose the pain that comes with being homosexual? Of telling your family, friends, of being afraid you won't be accepted?

And I leave you with my last thought: Let's say new Susie at work comes up to you and says, "Hey, I want to introduce you to my boyfriend." Do you immidietly picture them having sex? Or wonder if they're having pre-marital sex and are committing a sin? Good. Me neither. So if a woman comes up to you and says, "Hey, I want to introduce you to my partner, Lisa," why do you immidietly picture their sex life and see them as different? That's your own problem - if you can't look at a person and not see their sex life (which is what you all seem to have a problem with)? Gross. Have fun with that...I don't want to be introduced to you, that's for sure.

BTW, I really AM sorry this is so long.

:thumbsup2

[wallyb]

And I leave you with my last thought: Let's say new Susie at work comes up to you and says, "Hey, I want to introduce you to my boyfriend." Do you immidietly picture them having sex? Or wonder if they're having pre-marital sex and are committing a sin? Good. Me neither. So if a woman comes up to you and says, "Hey, I want to introduce you to my partner, Lisa," why do you immidietly picture their sex life and see them as different? That's your own problem - if you can't look at a person and not see their sex life (which is what you all seem to have a problem with)? Gross. Have fun with that...I don't want to be introduced to you, that's for sure.


amykissangel love the post - especial this last part.
I always thought -Why are these judgemental jerks invited into my bedroom?
How about if I start evaluating what goes on in theirs?

[amykissangel]

You guys are truly fantastic - it's always nice to hear that people appreciate your opinions :) I'm listening to Fantasmic right now to lift the mood...a little later, I'll switch to my homemade "There's no need to tell everyone I'm a loser because I have a Disney CD with 48 burned pieces of park music on it" cd. The people in my office must be very glad I work downstairs so they can't hear the Disney and Broadway. Oh well. :cool1:

[wallyb]

I have a Disney CD with 48 burned pieces of park music on it" cd.:cool1:

This sounds great - where does one get such a CD?

[amykissangel]

Well I can tell you one thing...I did NOT download Kazaa Lite on my computer, because such things are illegal. Then I certainly didn't use the illegal Kazaa Lite to search for "Disney Park Music", and I of course did NOT download everything I found and burn it to a CD. So I really don't know what to tell you... :wave:

[wallyb]

AND I WON"T :sad2: EITHER! ;)

[amykissangel]

Good call...those downloading police are scary!! ;)

[OrlandoMike]

There was a blurb in USA Today today (6/29) The military is taking us off of the "disabled" or nuts list.

So all of you who rushed out to get your handicapped pass for your car, you will have to return it now.

Now back to Winmx or Kazza Lite........whichever you prefer!

[PghLybrt]

There was a blurb in USA Today today (6/29) The military is taking us off of the "disabled" or nuts list.

So all of you who rushed out to get your handicapped pass for your car, you will have to return it now.

Now back to Winmx or Kazza Lite........whichever you prefer!
bummer...I was going to use the insanity plea for my downloading case! :rotfl:

[snusnu]

Why am I always so late to the party?? I'm so sick of that unfounded argument that there is no scientific proof that homosexuality is determined by genetics. There IS a genetic determinant, it just hasn't been clarified to the point of incontrovertibility. I give you one such study:

Hum Genet. 2006 Feb;118(6):691-4. Epub 2005 Dec 21.

This is a HIGHLY reputable, peer-reviewed journal that has a massive reader base. Strong evidence points to a genetic component in sexual orientation.

And to those that say that there is no PROOF, genetic proof is a tricky wicket. Even the widely accepted tests for ovarian cancer are not 100%, they just indicate an inclination. There are very few proofs available in medicine or science, just really educated guesses.

As a Catholic, I get furious when people use the Bible as an excuse to condemn homosexuality. They hunt and hunt to find a reference to validate their position and latch on to the few writings in the allegorical Old Testament and the highly subjective letters that Paul wrote when asked for advice. Paul's letters? Not the word of God, folks. The word of one man, and not even a very tolerant one, at that.

[MickeyDee]

I can't wait for 10, 20 years down the road when people who think that homosexuality is the product of one's upbringing and environment have a rude awakening when their own child comes out of the closet to them.

So, basically, my parents made me gay? They would LOVE to hear that!

I don't understand how people who proclaim to be straight and that being gay is a choice know anything about it. If they aren't gay, then how do they know anything about my sexual orientation or how it came about? I mean, other than to make assumptions that something must have occurred to cause me to make a "lifestyle choice".

Oh, how I cringe at that phrase - "lifestyle choice". Yuck.

[MrVisible]

Oh, how I cringe at that phrase - "lifestyle choice". Yuck.
I second that wholeheartedly. Buying an Ipod or a MobiBlu... that's a lifestyle choice. Whether to swallow my dignity and wear Crocs is a lifestyle choice.

Who I love... that goes soul-deep. There's nothing that says more about a person than who they love. There's no more essential component to a person's psyche. What could possibly mean more?

Lifestyle choice. Pfaugh.

[fey_spirit]

You know it will never cease to amaze me how many Christans get this wrong and use it as an argument against homosexuality.

1.) God didn't send the Angels in because same gendered couples were having sex, he sent the Angels in because they had reached a level of depravity unparalleled before. Tons of rapes, beastality, and promiscuity beyond imagination...
2.) He didn't destroy Sodam and Ghomoara even then, because of that depravity. He did it because when he sent his Angels down - the dumb puddings Starte Raping Angels ....

3.) Don't wave your Bible and scriptures at me as though it has to be holy writ, the beginning and end to be followed to the letter well: Well, President Bartlet (West Wing Said it so much better then I ever could - to someone just like you.)

BARTLET: I like your show. I like how you call homosexuality an “abomination!”

JACOBS: I don’t say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President. The Bible does.

BARTLET: Yes it does. Leviticus!

JACOBS: 18:22.

BARTLET: Chapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I had you here. I wanted to sell my youngest daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She’s a Georgetown Sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be?

(Bartlet only waits a second for a response, then plunges on.)

BARTLET: While thinking about that, can I ask another? My chief of staff, Leo McGary, insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? Or is it okay to call the police?

(Bartlet barely pauses to take a breath.)

BARTLET: Here’s one that’s really important, because we’ve got a lot of sports fans in this town. Touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you?




And YES, there are scriptures that pertain to homosexuality being a sin. If not then I guess God would have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorah. And it is not because I do not know them, but because I do not want to be majorly drawn into a conversation where I will be ganged up on and called a biggot and the like because of my convictions. That is what is so hurtful in these situations. It seems in my experiences, that I try to understand homosexuals, listen and love them no matter what. However, sadly, mostly what I recieve back is name calling and disrespectful comments. So I'd rather not.

[fey_spirit]

Just a thought.
I would be willing to admit that nothing conclusive has been found yet, but that's as far as it goes. You see, just because something hasn't been found by science yet, doesn't mean it wont be. Even hundreds of years later we know almost nothing about the genetic coding of a human being. I mean we know a lot, but compared to what there is to know - we have so far to go. We can't even figure out definitivly exactly what every single section of the human brain does... (Unless of course my biology teacher needs to be fired).

We constantly discover new information about the body, the mind and our DNA/Genes - given that, just because we haven't found it yet - doesn't mean we wont.


I think the first hurdle that we would have to overcome to engage in the type of discourse you are describing is to come to an understanding about the whole choice vs inborn nature of homosexuality. We would need to agree up front that their is no conclusive medical or scienitific evidence that would support that their is a "gay" gene. Now you may point to several studies that take a leap into the "gay" gene area but have many gaps in them.

[L107ANGEL]

Uhm..... Welcome to the Dis :confused3 :confused3

[wallyb]

Whether to swallow my dignity and wear Crocs is a lifestyle choice.

Lay off the Crocs cracks dude!

[MrVisible]

I kid. You know I kid. They look good on you, really.

And...

:scared1: :eek: Ohmygod, this thread is back! :scared1: :eek:

We're gonna need a pointy wooden stake, some garlic, some crosses, and an enormous wedge of cheese. Let's make sure it doesn't rise again, all right?

[Viki]

I kid. You know I kid. They look good on you, really.

And...

:scared1: :eek: Ohmygod, this thread is back! :scared1: :eek:

We're gonna need a pointy wooden stake, some garlic, some crosses, and an enormous wedge of cheese. Let's make sure it doesn't rise again, all right?


I have always adored all things VAMPIRE and, as a religious professional, I AM big on resurrections!!!

[wallyb]

:scared1: :eek: Ohmygod, this thread is back! :scared1: :eek:

We're gonna need a pointy wooden stake, some garlic, some crosses, and an enormous wedge of cheese. Let's make sure it doesn't rise again, all right?

Don't look at me - I'm not the one who summoned it up!
It just won't Die!
It's alive!

[TuckandStuiesMom]

scuttled down to the laboratory, racked in the 15KV switch, and got the tesla coils snappin' and cracklin' in the first place?!?!? :rotfl2: hmmmm?

[Bibbidybobbidy]

I am sure someone has posted this reply before, but just in case. . . .

If I have a mental disorder then can I get out of jury duty? Just where are my disability benies? curiouser and curiouser. . .

[Melora]

I got to about page 3 of this thread and got overwhelmed by how some people think.

It also reminded me of something that happened to my husband the other day. He has a very good friend who is building a car for him. The man is also a pastor of an Armenian church out in Pasadena. He works with troubled youth and has a excellent track record of helping them straighten their life out. My husband has always admired him for the work he does.

Well a few days ago my husband went to pick up his car for a trial run and he spent some time in the car with the man and the subject of homosexuality came up. My husband said that he had been helping a friend of our daughter to get off and stay off drugs (both the girl and my daughter are gay). The mans reaction surprised my husband quite a bit (of course with him being a pastor it shouldnt have). He said "So you chose to help this girl rid herself of one bad choice in her life, but not the other? I have helped several young people make better choices (in sexual lifestyle) and I can give you some advice." :sad2:

It really made my husband sad because he really believed this man to be open minded and he obviously isn't. He also said that he understands my husband wanting to love and accept our daughter but we should make it very clear we don't apporve. (He's assuming we don't). He also said that it would be OK for her to live with another girl her whole life and for them to be best freinds and to have a very close relationship.. "You know like roommates" etc "As long as they don't want to get married or anything like that". My husband knew saying anything wouldnt do any good but he thought "Should I just show my daughter the closet door right now so she can get back in?" :confused3

I swear I dont understand people's attitude.

[bandboy101]

Wow this is some discussion. I do listen to ppls oppinions so what i am going to say u can totally dissagree with me but in a total mature and nice way. I have no idea what the Pentagon is thinking that gay is an illness. It isnt. I am a teenager and i have liked boys since i wasin Kindergarden in elementary school. Meaning it is not a choice among my part. I know that there is no such thing as a gay gene but really common. I mean really you can totally be born gay, bi, or straight. Before i went into high school i was scared to even tell anyone cause of the negativity i would have gotten from ppl. But when i did i did have some ppl attack me for it, but i also had ppl who were not affected by it at all. I still even now talk to ppl in my school who have different oppinions and i respect them and they respect mine. Now back to the real deal, yea people dont choose to be straight do they? NO It just comes natrally so if u dont have to choose to be straight then just because were gay doensnt mean we werent born gay. So yea if u wanna sit here and debate with me im fine with that, but as long as there is a very nice way to go bout it.

[PolyAddict]

Pentagon Lists Homosexuality as Disorder :crazy:
A Pentagon document classifies homosexuality as a mental disorder, decades after mental health experts abandoned that position.
The document outlines retirement or other discharge policies for service members with physical disabilities, and in a section on defects lists homosexuality alongside mental retardation and personality disorders.

Okay, so that explains it ... I am nutz :upsidedow
Thanks uncle Sam.

Honestly, I found this thread through the new posts link and have to say regardless of my church affiliation or politics, I work with some of the finest "crazy people" around. :bitelip: I believe that any healthy relationship is better than an unhealthly one. That's all I have to say about that!

[mickeymousemom]

One of my DH's best friends is a Lesbian. One of my best friends is a gay man. I'm still under the belief that a person is born this way. I don't think there's a "gay gene", I just think something happens differently during the development of either the embryo or the fetus. May sound crazy, but then I do happen to be a little "nutty". I don't think any of us are born to "choose" who we're attracted to. As DH's friend stated...she is no more attracted to a man than he is. Why choose to be so different that you are ridiculed and bashed for those "choices". That's ridiculous thinking.
Though it doesn't sound like it, I would hope the piece that wallyb posted is something that has since been updated. Although it sure does sound like something you'd read in this country. :guilty:

I must be as "nutz" as the rest of you, because if, as Sonno states, homosexuality is akin to alcoholism then I am an enabler. :teeth:

[MrVisible]

I am a teenager and i have liked boys since i wasin Kindergarden in elementary school. Meaning it is not a choice among my part. I know that there is no such thing as a gay gene but really common. I mean really you can totally be born gay, bi, or straight.
Yeah, I know what you mean on this particular argument. Not only are they trying to assert that we became gay just to piss them off, they're entirely discounting the possibility that when millions of gay people tell them that it wasn't a choice, they might be telling the truth.

So they begin the debate from the standpoint that all gay people are liars. And are lying specifically to annoy them. Hardly the most rational perspective.

[bandboy101]

Yeah, I know what you mean on this particular argument. Not only are they trying to assert that we became gay just to piss them off, they're entirely discounting the possibility that when millions of gay people tell them that it wasn't a choice, they might be telling the truth.

So they begin the debate from the standpoint that all gay people are liars. And are lying specifically to annoy them. Hardly the most rational perspective.

Yes i see that, we r beeing called liars not directly but might as well just say it. I mean since when have straight ppl said oh i choose to be straight or i choose to be a heterosexual. So yea no one is given a choice it is just something that comes naturaly.

[summer_magic]

Gee an interesting thread

So I am a Republican and a Christian who has always been straight in terms of dating but I do find myself leaning towards exploring the other side as I do find some guys attractive.

So does that make me half nuts and half ok ?

Gee I wonder what the 'gay is a disease' people think of me ?

Half sick half healthy ?

*smirk*

[resol37]

I started on this thread last night and forced myself to read it all the way through before I posted. Most of what I was thinking as I read all of this has already been posted, but I did want to add this:


Feel free to look down on those who deserve it: abusers, molestors, killers, rapists, arsonists, terrorists, etc. etc. etc. They did something that could affect you in a terrible way one day. You could be abused, molested, killed, raped, your house burned down, or your town could be bombed.


All of these people are allowed to get married if they like. There are plenty of killers, etc who get married while still in jail for the heinous crimes they've comitted. I find it utterly ridiculous that if a man is in jail for molestation, met a woman over the internet or through mail, and wanted to marry her - they have that right. But if that molestor has met a man and wanted to marry him - sorry, that options not available. "You can't get married. No, no, it's not because you hurt all of those children and scarred them for life. It's just that the person you want to marry is also a man and in the land of 'all men are created equal' that's simply not allowed."

*sigh*