A lot of complaints

[scauzilloc]

I am probably causing a big stink here but I think we need to stop our complaining and just be happy all the Disney theme parks have not shut down completely. Yes we do have some of the rides closing, shorter hours and the Ap's are losing privleges, but whats worse, a few rides or the whole park. Turning your backs on Disney during this time is hurting them and it is hurting us. Why do you think they are changing things. Because everyone has stopped going. Yes I do believe its to expensive, and I don't enjoy WDW as much as I did but I will remain loyal. Living here in Florida I do have the luxury of going anytime I want. I have AP passes to Disney and to Universal and spend the majority of time at Disney. They offer more and its a much cleaner and a happier place to be. Lets not turn our backs on the Mouse. Without him and the imagination of one man we would not have been blessed with a remarkable pastime. Enjoy what you can of it. Don't give up! And I hope to see YOU at WDW.

[SteveS]

I agree, there is far to much whinning and acting like spoiled children. People need to stop and get a grip on reality.

[ozmo19]

Yes and once the economy recovers fully and Walt Disney World continues with these cuts, as things seem to become standard fare with this company, you too, might be complaining about the through lack of quality that gripes the property today. I for one do not need to support a multi-billion dollar corporation, who still is making a PROFIT, a large one, albeit 20% less than last year at this time on all of us. I don't believe that I should stand behind a company who continues to reduce the quality, attractions, and the "magic" that Disney has stood for. I would suggest for anyone to take the time out during the day to visit the Imagination pavillion during the day to see the completely faded out blue portion of the building, throughly discolored brown paint, faded banners, etc. All of these "cost cuts" started long ago and the latest round of cutting is just icing on the cake. Do you appreciate a company who raises the prices on products like pins just because they can milk more profit out of you even though their cost doesn't rise? Besides the fact that their products cost more than about any theme park in the country? They don't care about us, we used to be guests, we're now customers, and treated pretty poorly nowadays.

Some people rant and rave about the "changes" being unfair and poor and that some people act like little kids, of which I totally agree about. It's the people like my wife and I who no longer will be using our Annual Passes and dining at their restaraunts. Coming and attending will not change their cutbacks and ever growing lack of quality. The more of us who don't come because of the state of affairs with the company will have an even greater impact. We have to be realistic because so much has been cut, so many attractions closed, so many dirty places, that can't get much worse than it is. :pinkbounc

Ok, I'm off the soapbox!! :) :):) :) :p

[lisapooh]

I think most of us have a very good grip on reality. LESS VALUE FOR MONEY SPENT.

[TXDeb]

I just don't understand this 'be thankful for what you get' mentality when it comes to a business, even if it is WDW.

This is a capitalistic society and businesses remain successful by satisfying their customers.
WDW used to be among the best at that.

How many other businesses would you continue to patronize if their services continued to be cut, but their prices remained high?

Businesses are not charities.

My husband's business is slow right now. Are they cutting back on customer service? No, they are trying to find ways to attract new customers with new promotions and incentives. They recognize a short-term loss on these type of programs will actually provide long term gains (or at least break-even numbers). Management has also taken some large cuts in salary and benefits to keep from sacrificing product excellence and customer service. They have had to make some cuts in the day to day operations, but they have worked to find ways of doing so without offering less to their customers, including by taking the afore-mentioned salary and benefit cuts. Keeping the company profitable is their responsibility and when things pick up, they will again be rewarded with more pay and benefits for themselves. When I see Eisner and the other top-dogs willing to take some cuts to their salaries and perks, I MIGHT be willing to accept less as a customer. It is their responsibility to keep the business running and satisfy the customer, before lining their pockets with exorbitant salaries and perks.

[Mr D]

This may not make any sense but even right now all the money sent to relief aid for the victims of the WTC thats about 1.2 Billion dollars is just being held by the charities earning interest and not being sent out to help those in any large amount according to Mr. O'Reilly at Fox News, this must be the same mentality of Disney to hang onto the cash as tight as possible, sadly they have a CEO that likes to spend what they have on illconcieved future projects instead of bolstering its current product line, to me thats like spending todays prices for a 1960's era of a car or a TV, we know there is better but all we see is outdated products, again its almost like viewing the streets of Cuba full of 50 's era Chevies or a third world country still selling test tube radios, if Disney had 10% of what was designed into Tokyo DisneySea at any park I would be impressed and would spend more, but when I hear of out of date rides, poor maintenance, popular disatisfaction with a new theme park well thats just a big sign saying to me anyway that the product may be cheap or of dubious quality.

[SandraC]

what rides closed? been on most of them before, so no big deal, as long as I still get the DISNEY FEELING I don't need to ride Dumbo again.

[CapHook]

I have a kid that has not gotten to ride Dumbo yet. I hope all of this is temporary and will go away by Christmas for the busy season.... if there is a busy season.

[TXDeb]

what rides closed? been on most of them before, so no big deal, as long as I still get the DISNEY FEELING I don't need to ride Dumbo

I love that Disney feeling too, SandraC. It's the greatest! I can usually feel the 'magic' when I walk onto MainStreet and see the castle in the distance, or when I see Spaceship Earth as I enter Epcot. Even the tree at AKL will do it for me. I almost forgot the thrill that I get when I see that MK entry arch. :)

However, I have three teens, and they want to ride rides. That is what they enjoy about WDW. I expect for them to be able to experience WDW the way that they enjoy it - through the rides and attractions, and to get the full value for their adult priced tickets.

BTW - I do like the rides, too, but I also appreciate taking the time to stop and notice the small things that make Disney so 'Disney'!

[johare]

Turning your backs on Disney during this time is hurting them and it is hurting us. It's Disney who is turning their backs on loyal customers that is hurting Disney. Do they really expect to be able to continue making cuts and at the same time charge the same price for admission? If your local newspaper told you that they were hurting financially and in order to continue publishing the paper for you they would have to start skipping delivering on Tuesday and every other Sunday would you be likely to renew your subscription (at the same rate of course) or continue as a subscriber? How about if your cable company cut the amount of channels you received by 30% and offered no service from 8:00am to 10:00am? Would you still be willing to pay the same amount just to help them and their stockholders?

I have AP passes to Disney and to Universal and spend the majority of time at Disney. They offer more and its a much cleaner and a happier place to be. I live in the Orlando area also and while I still visit WDW a couple times a year, we only maintain annual passes to Universal which in my mind is every bit as clean and in most cases (at least for us) is a happier place. My kids have a better time at Camp Jurassic or Curious George Goes to Town than they do anywhere at Disney.

Lets not turn our backs on the Mouse. Without him and the imagination of one man we would not have been blessed with a remarkable pastimeLike I said...it's the mouse (rat?) who shouldn't be turning his back on us. WE are the reason he has been around for so long.

I hope to see YOU at WDW.Ok...we'll be there Friday night for Mickey's Halloween Party. :)

[kenman]

Dumbo closed worse but the min.:mad:

[toefungus]

It's Disney who is turning their backs on loyal customers that is hurting Disney.

That is so true. How come when they are having $ problems, the guests are always the ones to suffer. Why don't they take a bite out of Ei$ner's huge paycheck and keep CoP open, or open Epcot at 9am again? I'm sure there are other things that Disney can do to keep costs down. Taking away from guests isn't one of them. Hopefully all of these cuts will backfire on Disney and they will return things to normal again. :rolleyes:

[kenman]

Yea!!! like stop building parks in china, paris,hong kong!!!!Keep Amrican parks in America!!!!!!:rolleyes:

[YoHo]

Considering that Disneyland Tokyo is the number 1 theme park in the world in terms of attendence, that's a pretty short sighted Idea.
Disney also doesn't own all of those parks, nor does it pay all or even most of the up front costs.

[JustBob]

Just like pretty much everyone who has posted here, I love WDW. I guess I don't understand the unbelievable vehemence of some of the posts. I know we've all spent a lot on WDW vacations, myself included. I think I've gotten my money's worth. I will go again if I think I will get my money's worth. I want WDW to stay alive. If they are honestly trying to cut things temporarily to accomplish that, more power to them. I'm firmly in car 2, maybe interested in looking at 1. They are not out to destroy things, but help them get better. Naive? Maybe. But I've always tried to put a positive spin on things.
Are we too serious and emotional about this whole subject?

[livsea2]

And I'll say it again, when a business is doing poorly they INCREASE hours, REDUCE prices, and INCREASE the customers perceived value. A large corporations cuts costs because the name of the game is to accumulate wealth for the CEO by showing Wall st. you've reduced expenses when revenues are down. No consideration to running the business, only the advancement of the corporation. Disney will unload WDW in a heartbeat if the circumstances are right. Right Mr. Ei$ner?:pinkbounc

[johare]

And I'll say it again, when a business is doing poorly they INCREASE hours, REDUCE prices, and INCREASE the customers perceived value That's correct, however Disney does not see it that way. If Eisner was in charge of McDonald's they'd be serving horsemeat by now, drinks would be service in shot-glass sized cups and a large frys would be called a large fry. Of course prices would remain the same and then Eisner would wonder why people stopped eating there when he was only trying to reduce his costs. Maybe he could count on the few who are so blinded by his 'pixie dust' that they wouldn't mind washing down a mouthful of horsemeat with a shot of coke.

[DiznEeyore]

Originally posted by TXDeb
I just don't understand this 'be thankful for what you get' mentality when it comes to a business, even if it is WDW.

This is a capitalistic society and businesses remain successful by satisfying their customers.
WDW used to be among the best at that.

How many other businesses would you continue to patronize if their services continued to be cut, but their prices remained high?

Businesses are not charities.

AMEN, SISTER!!!!!

[philg]

Last time I checked this is still a free country and I can whine and complain if I want to. We canceled our disney trip for Nov. If I am going to spend 3000 plus for a disney trip I want to get my money's worth. And I do have the right to cancel if I do not feel I am going to get my money's worth.

Thanks :)
philg

[Mr D]

Good for you! I hope you still visit WDW and save a lot by staying offsite, the deals are outrageous right now near Orlando, I know the $3906 vacation refund from Disney for my cancellation next month is going to buy a lot of steak in my own rental home, one fourth of what I was willing to pay while being "Pixie Dust High" inside the property. Lets all that have booked vacations to stay onsite go out and protest by cancelling, beside you will then be able to spend more and see the other theme parks while coming off the pixie-high. Or you could join PDA (Pixie Dust Anonomous)

[Snowgod]

With everything that has happened in this country recently, it's nice to see that people will continue to complain about things. DW and I will still be at WDW this Dec and will enjoy whatever is open.

[MrKlixx]

I was directed to a webpage (http://www.drmor.com/4/goat.htm) regarding something completely non-Disney related, however the story on the page made me immidiately think of Disney. I think the "Mouse" is resorting to "goat" tactics.

Here is the fable.


Once upon a time (or only yesterday) in a small poor village lived a poor man. One day he came to the Rabbi (the wise man/religious leader of the community) and said to him. “Rabbi, life is so miserable. I have a wife and fourteen children. We all share one room in a poor shack. There is almost no food. Everything is bad, please help me.”

The Rabbi thought for a moment and then told the Poor Man “Take your dog and bring him home to live with you.”

The Poor Man is surprised, but what the Rabbi say Poor Man do.

A week later the Poor Man comes back to the Rabbi in tears. “Rabbi, life is worse now. Wife, fourteen children, one room, shack, dog barks and eats and stinks. We can’t live like that any more, please help.”

Rabbi thinks a moment and then tells the Poor Man “Take your ten chicken home to live with you.”

Rabbi say Poor Man do.

A week later the Poor Man comes back to the Rabbi crying. “Rabbi, life is horrible now. Wife, fourteen children, one room, shack, dog, chicken cluck and eat and stink. We cannot sleep or eat any more, please help.”

Rabbi thinks a moment and then tells the Poor Man “Take your goat home to live with you.”

Rabbi say Poor Man do.

A week later the Poor Man comes back to the Rabbi looking like a ghost. “Rabbi, there is no life anymore. Wife, fourteen children, one room, shack, dog, chicken, goat eat eat and stink. We are dying, please help.”

Rabbi thinks a moment and then tells the Poor Man “Kick the goat out.”

Rabbi say Poor Man do.

The next day the Poor Man rushes back to the Rabbi, all smiles and happiness. “Rabbi, thank you so much, you saved our lives. Life is so much better now.”

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In case you are wondering what this is all about, that story can give you great insight into what happens in your mind when life is playing games with you.

Take for example the next story:

You are not happy at work. You go to your Boss and tell him “I am not happy here. I am not getting enough money and nobody appreciates my work. Help me.”

The Boss turns around and tells you “Your performance is down so I am going to cut your bonus, and business is not that great so I may just fire you next week.”

You anxiously wait one week, worried sick about losing your job and feeling stupid for asking.

After one week the Boss gets back to you and says “I decided not to fire you after all.”

As you walk away feeling much better you may stop and realize that you are actually worse off than you were last week (you lost that bonus), so why are you feeling better? - The Goat Method worked again.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


MrKlixx

(goat with mouse ears clipart)

[Strawman]

Close the parks? Are you kidding? Disney has been sucking the blood out of their guests for years and you want me to feel sorry for them? Disney is ruthless, they care about only one thing, and that's making as much money as possible. Not you, not me, not that cute little kid with the Mickey hat, no, they say, show me the money.

[DisneyFanGuy]

Disney is the most incredible business on earth. They sell nostalgia, positive feelings, and joy. I have visited the World many many times, and have always left amazed by the details and little ways that they can dazzle you.

I LOVE THE PARKS.

In the last few years I have noticed a subtle, but definate drop in the experience. I have written letters with my concerns. I haven't really enjoyed any of the modern Disney attractions nearly to the level of the Classic Disney attractions. My wife and I have often discussed how the quality of the experience has decreased, while the price and gone through the roof. They are still beautiful, but not AS beautiful. Still better than anywhere else on earth though. In other words, we still go and still enjoy the experience.

In the last couple of years I have become very concerned about the closing of attractions, and the "mallification" of Disney. Some of my favorite little attractions and details, such as the Keelboats at WDW or the Canoes at DL, have been closed. Nothing replaces them directly, but a new shop or restaurant with glorius theming opens elsewhere in the park.

A great example was the little classic movie theater on main street. Gone forever, and replaced by a shop. A little piece of the experience is gone forever.

Another would be the penny arcade at DL. Gone, and replaced by another shop.

Each time I notice a little change like this, I get sad and nostalgic.

I used to have all sorts of little "tricks" about knowing secret things to do in the parks. Places to go to find a detail or experience that few others knew about. I used to love the feeling of discovery in the Disney parks. Most of these experiences are now replaced by shops as well. It's beginning to feel like the MK is a shop with a few attractions thrown in.

NOW, we see closures and reduced hours for anything that doesn't generate revenue. I don't see many shops closing.....just attractions that are costly to maintain.

Disney does not deserve our sympathy. They do not deserve us to "give them a break". They do not deserve our loyality. They provide a wonderful service and charge an incredible amount of money for it. And if it meets the grade, we are happy to pay it! If it doesn't, then we will go elsewhere.

I read on these boards about people who have saved for years to take the ultimate Disney vacation. They have carefully planned their time, and have been looking forward to going. Now they find out that many of the experiences that they have been hearing about for years and are about to see for themselves have been cancelled? Of COURSE they are mad. Rightfully so! Can you imagine looking forward to Fantasmic for years to find out that it was cut to reduce costs? WOW! Last I checked, the cost of the studios was still the same 50 bucks.

Xerox decided a few years ago, when they were the biggest and best, to reduce their field costs to maximize profits. Now, just three years later, they are nearly bankrupt. Loyalty is a fleeting thing. I was very loyal to Disney. Now I am just plain old PO'd.

When business is good, you bank the cash. When business is bad, you invest and train and create to make it better. That's basic economics. I have been able to justify in my mind over the past 5 years that the reason that there has been no real improvements in the MK is that people were continuing to come. I have read in their annual reports about them cutting costs to find cash to cover other devisions that needed it, even though the parks devision generated 2 billion dollars per year in income. Now that business is bad, what are they doing? Cutting back hours and closing attractions to reduce costs. They are going to destroy the number one source of income for their company by taking it out of their guests hides. It makes me so mad that I could just spit nails.

I am going to spend a couple of days there in November. I will see for myself if the level of service is what people are saying it is. If so, its the last time that I will set foot in the World for a long long time. And they will have lost a very loyal customer.

Big new attraction for 2001? Magic Carpets of Alladin! But it does include that beautifully themed shopping area!

Jeeeeeeeeeeesh.

[JeffJewell]

...nice post. It reads so well, I almost hate to hijack this part:Loyalty is a fleeting thing. I was very loyal to Disney. Now I am just plain old PO'd. ...in order that I may turn it to my own ends.

DFG's statement is a great illustration of why I'm always shooting off my big bazoo about "Disney Magic." I know we always get to the same point: that "Magic" is a subjective thing, and how dare you question my own opinion as being the correct one.

But each of those little cuts, each of those little savings, actually had a much greater cost. Every time one of those bonuses or perqs or nifty little somethings was sacrificed, _someone_ out there finally reached the point described above: "I was very loyal to Disney. Now I am just plain old PO'd."

This is the Landbaron's slippery slope: if you start valuing "low cost" over "great story" and "impeccable details," where do you stop? For _all_ people, at some point or other, you'll cross their line where personal defintions of Magic end.

All businesses must try to strike a balance between the extremes; they can decide to tell the best story and add the most and most impressive details at any price, or they can put absolutely everything possible into a product for a certain price, or they can even work to make the absolutely cheapest one possible. But it's a dangerous game to try to play with that combination in the name of maximizing profits.

Sooner or later, you'll misstep, and a _lot_ of formerly loyal customers will be just plain PO'd. Eisner has made a fortune asking the question "how much Magic can I afford to cut." At some point, a critical mass of customers is going to have said "that one there... that one went too far. Think I'll see what other vacations I might take..."

Jeff

PS: By the way, we're treading close to the reason it's so obvious that Car #3 Disney fans are actually the most loyal Disney fans of all: we are realist enough to be PO'd when appropriate, but we're still going to Orlando.

PPS: In case I trampled this part of my message, I'll repeat; Nice post, DisneyFanGuy.

[Captain Crook]

JJ, I agree with your entire post. You did not pit the feelings of those of us who ARE still feeling satisfied against those who aren't, even though I know that you must be mystified by our subjective feelings. It is true (as DFG said) that there could come a point where DisDuck will lose his feel, Scoop could lose his feel and The Captain too, could lose his feel.

As I have always tried to impart (miserably, I agree) I totally understand Landbarons "slippery slope", I just never felt as threatend by it as he or you or HBK or AV, and I believe that is because I get so many more doses of WDW than most of you, therefore look for different things. But still, the current path is troubling for me too, as wild speculation is the best I can do to rationalize the truly bizarre behavior eminating from Disney management at this moment. I too, am worried, but as Landbaron said, I have a good grasp on that (at least) half full glass and am not ready to give up quite yet...
:smooth: :smooth: :bounce: :smooth: :smooth:

[TDC Nala]

It doesn't matter to me much about Epcot opening at 10, but the MK could stay open a little later than 6, especially with no EE available. Spectro was already down to Saturdays only; I can't believe that running it on Fridays would have hurt business too much (now there are rumors that it won't be run at all until sometime next summer). I understand the AK closing early, but to shut down practically all of its counterservice eateries by 3? I understand closing POFQ for awhile; I don't really understand shutting down the Carousel of Progress unless it really is completely out of touch with what today's theme park guest wants. Today's theme park guest wants Universal, I guess, or at least IOA; faster, louder, scarier, wetter. Without whatever the Disney touch is, these parks will just be the old ones that aren't fast, loud, scary, or wet enough. If the Disney fanatics are disturbed, the non-fanatics must be livid.

I understand IOA also closes at 6 and has shut down some rides.

[nats]

I can remember when Disneyworld was a fun place to go to. Long hours and plenty to do. They can't even tell me their hours of operation. Why should I spend a bundle of money just to have more time to spend in the hotel. They have cut services and kept high prices. I work in retail and when things are slow we have sales. This brings in more customers. We do not cut the hours of operation. We give more service so the customers keep coming back.
Disney never had bad times until this year. They stopped creating family attractions and made more and more thrill and scary attractions.
I was there last October and noticed that maintenance was not good. Lights on the Main Street buildings were not being changed when they blew out. Too many unpainted surfaces. Dirt was everywhere.
If they want to keep customers coming, keep treating them as guests like they used to.
I could go on but I think you got my idea.

[Kuzco]

Since we all want our money's worth, maybe WDW should go back to A-E Tickets for the Attractions. That way, we'd all get EXACTLY our money's worth. Or maybe WDW should increase its admission prices to around the $500 dollar mark for daily admittance to compete with Cirque du Soleil's $70 price for an hour and 1/2 of entertainment. Sorry folks, but I've always said the entertainment at the parks (without the attractions) is enough for the price of the admission alone. I don't think $50 is unreasonable at all.

If you want more bang for your buck, don't schedule your trips during off-season. Go on July 4th when its 90 degrees and the MK is open until 2am.

Am i disappointed in the cuts in relation to my January trip? Yes. Do I think Disney should do a better job Public Relations wise to let us know whats going on? Yes. But it is off-season after all and the econonmy is slowing. Lets wait until the busy season to really start griping.

Everyone has a right to complain to Disney. Your points are definitely valid. But I do think there is still a lot of good in relation the Disney company and I do feel that I am getting my money's worth in more ways than one.

WDW, here I come!

[nats]

kuzco
What makes you think things will be better in the busy seasons. They cancelled the Easter Parade and they are constantly cutting out attractions and not creating too much to take its place. Why spend thousands of dollars just to spend a lot of time in a hotel room.

[TiggerFreak]

Hows about we call it the Paul Principle.

You know, thats where you take someone out of a postion where they are doing a wounderful job and stuff them into a spot where they don't have a clue. Then do the same with their old postion also. It's a classic Lose-Lose scenario.

Pressler did a wonderful job with the Disney Stores, since he has left the Disney Stores have lost the Magic. His form of pixie dust, creating new stores and making them a great place to visit, just doesn't add anything to the parks, uh except maybe 30 or 40 more places to buy the same things, where you once upon a time experienced COP, Keel Boats, Classic Cartoons, ......

[philg]

If you want to go to Disney to try to keep them open do it but don't tell me I should.
When Disney starts giving you what you are paying for I will return and not until then.

Thanks
philg

[livsea2]

If you read nothing else on this BB read Disneyfanguy"s post on page 2 of this thead it states my sentiments about the demise of WDW better tyhan I could have expressed them. Unfortunately WDW is sinking fast and I blame Ei$ner and the rest of Disneys management team. Walts gotta be rolling over!

[DisOrBust]

Disney is making a HUGE mistake. People want to get the most value out of their TIME and MONEY. Why would I spend my families precious vacation time, let alone money, for less entertainment?? Because of all the uncertainy of hours, attractions open..etc.. we are....

1. Driving instead of flying, so we can go elsewhere if needed (ie IOA.) or just cancel if it cutbacks increase.

2. Have cut our "planned" time at WDW to 5 days instead of 8. We added in Busch gardens.


When we heard on CNN that WDW asked it employess to take a 20%cut in hours and pay my 70 yo Housewife Mom said..." I'am not going this year were is there going to be any magic if things are that bad, workers will be angry, it will be a sad place."

I have to agree with her, who would feel like giving 110% after such a pay cut. Did Eisner take a pay cut??? Doesn't he make like 200 mil/ year? 20% off that could help their bottom line without effecting morale.

[All Aboard]

Disorbust, while I share your frustrations about the cutbacks...

USF/IOA as an alternative won't really add much value. UO is closing both of their parks at 5pm every day of the week now. That's earlier than MK, Epcot or Disney Studios.

[Nuts4Disney]

we are on the same page...I have had the very same feelings myself over the past several years. I feel the comercialism taking over the nostalgia & pixie dust of WDW. IMHO, even animation department is failing. Where's the next Beauty & the Beast, Little Mermaid? I've always marked my calendar when new films were hitting the theaters, excited like a child. I can't remember the last time I walked out of a theater saying, "Wow, Disney did it again."

Disney is a business, on this everyone seems to agree. Yet, we are willing to except less from Disney as a business than any other business for some sentimental reason. That doesn't make much business sense to me. We have been told that market research indicates that consumers would prefer to get less for the same cost, than to have a company raise its prices. So we as consumers have acclimated to paying for 1 lb. of coffee, but only getting 12 oz. Same thing holds true with dry cereal, etc., the list is endless. But we just came out of the biggest boom economy...& I don't remember the coffee or cereal companies, or any of the other companies for that matter saying, "business picked up, profits are great, we're gonna give you the full pound of coffee or full box of cereal that you have been paying for all along again." I am skeptical that Disney will ever give anything back. They are a business, & if people are willing to pay the same amount but are just as happy receiving less, Disney has no incentive to give anything back or do anything special for its customers [guests?!].

I am very disappointed in the whole way Disney is handling all of this. It is as though they expect us to except whatever they throw at us, & they become indignant if we complain. I find them very UnDisney-like right now. I know I was not been able to get a straight answer to very direct questions when I called them recently, & was very disappointed in their attitudes. The pixie dust seemed to be gone with the cast members. And I am aware that they're going through a lot with cut backs & the like. But so is the rest of the country. They should see what we are seeing up here! My sympathy is with the direct victims of 9/11, not the corporations who are only concerned with their bottom lines.

It is very hard to even want to take a vacation right now, with all going on. I personally am not even in a very vacation-like mood. But we have this planned, so I am still playing around with the idea. But now that all this is going on with WDW & the last straw for me. The tourism business is hurting, as are many other businesses, but as was said before by many others...the other business that are hurting, including those in the tourism industry are kissing the butts of their customers. I feel like Disney has gotten too arrogant, as though we will not go anywhere else & we will put up with whatever they throw at us, whatever Disney decides to do.

This year is more complicated for us, because my sister was coming with us. It is her first time to WDW & her birthday! We have been planning this for almost a year already! Most of my planning is out the window, because of the changes, & I can't get any firm info on WDW, so why plan, it just changes anyway?! I also feel like she is not going to really see WDW...not really experience the real magic of WDW, even though that may not be entirely WDW's fault. It's just not gonna be a Hakuna Matata vacation.

It's just all so ironic that this is all taking place on the year that WDW is celebrating Walt Disney! Everything Disney Co. is doing seems so UnDisney-like.

I know this is long. Thanks for letting me go on. I haven't even been able to post for awhile.

[Not so] Nuts4Disney

[Christine & family]

I'll be honest... I'm really nervous about submitting any posts when it comes to this topic because people seem to be really angry at different opinions. But if this is to be balanced, then perhaps it's worth chiming in.

Each time I spend money, I make a decision about whether or not what I'm buying is worth it to me. Something that I think is a treasure, someone else may think is junk. I agree that it isn't fair for people to think they are buying one thing (early entry priveleges) and wind up with something different, but now we know. We know that shows aren't guaranteed to be performed every day, we know that parks may not be open as long as they were before, and that other changes may occur.

So please take what I'm about to say as well intended. If you so dislike Disney World, then perhaps you'd feel better spending your time on something that did bring you happiness and excitement. I'm here because I'm planning another trip and I want to learn about how to make the most of our trip. It has helped to have my eyes opened about some of these changes so my expectations have been set, but I'm confused as to why people spend so much time on these boards when they don't seem to have any positive interest in Disney World or another trip.

Anyway, my five year old and eight year old are really excited. I love to see how happy they are when we are away together at Disney World. I hope for you all that you can find opportunities, at Disney or somewhere else, to enjoy being with your friends and family. For me, I'm glad that we have a place that is so child-oriented to spend time at.

[Pete W.]

I'd pay more than 2 cents for thoughtful posts like yours.

[JeffJewell]

I'm really nervous about submitting any posts when it comes to this topic because people seem to be really angry at different opinions. Sometimes, some of the anger comes from the fact that some of us have been sitting here for a couple years, having largely the same discussion with largely the same folks. If I yell at YoHo, it's just as likely to be because of something he did last summer as something in the post I'm actually responding to...

The vast majority of folks, even those with dissenting opinions, are happy to discuss things in civil tones, if the occasion demands. ;)If you so dislike Disney World, then perhaps you'd feel better spending your time on something that did bring you happiness and excitement. The thing is, I believe that most of the posters complaining do _not_ dislike Disney World. Indeed, someone who doesn't like Disney World isn't likely to have found and registered for these boards at all (yeah, there are a certain number of whackos in any population, but I think they're a really small minority here).I'm here because I'm planning another trip and I want to learn about how to make the most of our trip. Here's where I hope you'll take what I say as well intended: trying to make plans for a Disney vacation at this point in time is about as satisfying and valuable as trying to staple Jell-O to a cat. For those folks who are still going, the best advice I have is to not count on seeing anything in particular. Almost any plans created now will be of little value by the time you arrive at a park.

My next trip is December. I'm what many would call an anal-retentive planner, and the schedule I set up for December "went green" literally, just a couple days before the post 9-11 cuts started (I started planning in July or August, and because you cannot get certain PSes or special events until X days before, I put the planned activities in red. When I've got the confirmation number in hand, I turn the entry green on my schedule. When my schedule "goes green," it means I've gotten all my reservations, PSes, and tickets locked up and confirmed). Now, the hours for December are no longer even posted. I'll have to wait until I get to the park to see how much of the schedule is valid. If I had to do the planning over again, I wouldn't: why bother, with the current environment?I'm confused as to why people spend so much time on these boards when they don't seem to have any positive interest in Disney World or another trip. I think that's an illusion. Even though I'm happy to shoot off my bazoo about what I feel are Disney mistakes, it's actually _because_ of my positive interest in Disney (and of course, I've mentioned our pending trip) that I point them out. If I didn't care about Disney, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if they padlocked the place.

I think a lot of people would get along better if some folks wouldn't read "Disney has made a mistake, here" and assume that means "Disney is a bad company and no one should buy their product ever again."

Jeff

[DisOrBust]

I am making our decision of where to spend our time/money based on what we enjoy the most, as it stands now. The hours ay be shorter at IOA BUT as a resort guest you get front of the line acess to the attractions that is a big plus! We always did EE , toured the park , had lunch, went back to the resort to swim and rest and then hit the parks again. Now this is not possible so should we spend "More" on a resort at WDW and get to use it "less". Like I said originally in my post, we are driving so we can be flexible. I hope the hours and onsite benifits return to normal then so may our orginal vacation plans.

[Nuts4Disney]

I am sorry if anyone took a personal offense to my angry tone in my last post here. It was never intended at anyone on the DisBds, & I don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable about posting a differing opinion to mine.

I'm also glad that JeffJewell got here ahead of me to soften some of the anger in the posts.

I don't want to force feed you my opinion. I just want to clarify a few things.

I have been a very loyal Disney fan for many years, as many of you are. Everyone who knows me calls me Nuts4Disney. My home is a Disney shrine, like I am guessing from being on The DisBds, many of yours are, too. And we visit WDW at least annually. When family & friends are planning anything related to Disney, they call me up for info & advice. I have been promoting Disney to everyone for many years. When I found the DisBds I was amazed. I found people as Nuts4Disney or moreso than I am. It was great! I felt at home!

As I said in my prior post, everything that is going on at WDW & off WDW is not Disney's fault. But Disney Co. has been relying on its resorts [which translates into its resort guests] to bring in the profits, especially when it fails in other areas. But what is really upsetting to me is the attitude Disney Co. has. I have always been a big defender as well as a promoter of Disney, but after telephone calls to WDW to get clarity from them about the rumours & changes, I was terribly disappointed in Disney Co.

I tried 4 different times, speaking to 4 different CMs. I started each conversation politely, friendly & calmly. I told them of my scheduled upcoming trip & wanted clarity about the rumours & changes. Although each conversation began cordially, they quickly turned sour. At first they denied there were any changes. Then, as I asked them about individual changes that I had heard, they tried to dance around them as best as they could, confirming some or saying they had no info on others. It became apparent that these CMs were rehearsed ahead of time, & were only allowed to give out very limited info & weren't permitted to volunteer any info. They began to double talk me, which I found insulting. Though the conversations never turned rude on either side, the magic was not there for either of us.

One CM went so far as to say there wasn't a slow down, & that she was working double time & that the parks are full to near capacity. When I asked her then why all the cutbacks, she denied the layoffs & CM cutbacks & said "due to the events Sept. 11..." [a phrase I heard over & over again from each CM] "WDW is only giving park hours on a weekly basis" & she actually hung up on me, even though I never got rude or disrespectful with her.

I am honestly stunned by the way Disney is treating their resort guests regarding these changes. They have bad news to tell their resort guests, & it seems they are taking the attitude of "if they ask, don't tell, let them find out when they're already here & we already have secured their $." I can see how this attitude will make for a fun, relaxed vacation for their resort guests, :rolleyes: as well as for the bull the poor CMs will have to put up with as the guests find out about these surprise changes when they are at WDW. :( I am just terribly disappointed with Disney Co. & I am insulted that they would treat us this way.

Thank you again for listening [reading?]. Please feel free to agree or disagree with me. And again, please accept my apologies if anyone was offended by this or any other post of mine.

[Christine & family]

Thanks to all of you that responded to my post. I suppose if you can't vent with friends, then who can you talk to? Probably the people here understand better than anyone. It's just hard when there seems to be so much disappointment right now. It's understandable, but still tough to absorb when I'm trying to make the best of an upcoming trip. That was just me being a little oversensitive. I hope for everyone's sake that things will turn around soon and we can go back to discussions that are a bit more fun! In the meantime, I appreciate having a chance to learn so much from all of you.

Christine

[HorizonsFan]

trying to staple Jell-O to a cat

In his best Bill Cosby voice:

Here kitty, kitty, kitty...

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

[DisneyFanGuy]

I love Disney. I also love my family. I often don't agree with what they do either. The difference is that I sometimes get the impression that my family listens to me when I speak and that they have my interests at heart. Right now, unfortunately, I feel like I am not getting that from Disney.

Disney can close all the hotel's that they like. Cut back on movie production. Raise prices. Whatever. But if they want guests to return to their resorts, then they have to continue to provide an experience that dazzles, inspires, and excites.

If they want me to spend thousands of dollars on a vacation, then they have to:

Provide me with new and exciting things to do and see.
Provide me with incredible service.
Provide me with a spotlessly clean environment.
Provide clear communication to me so that I feel like I am in control of what I spend and how I spend my time.

These messages on the internet, while lots of fun, don't sway my opinion one way or another in regard to Disney. I am leaving in two weeks, and would kind of like to know what their hours of ops are, and what entertainment choices will be available to me when I come. i will be there on a weekend, and assume (based on what I read) that the parks will be packed. (They are deserted right now on weekdays). I would like reasonable hours of operation so that I can have a chance at doing more.

I am still going. I am not cancelling. I would just like the experience to be what I have come to expect from WDW. Or something close to it.

[roymccoy]

I cancelled our WDW trip for Jan 5-12th yesterday. I had been planning the trip for a year. We go every other year. We fly from Los Angeles to Orlando...is the fear of flying cross-country a factor in our decision to cancel?? NO!! I wouldn't let that keep me from going to the drugstore. I too, had some questions about closures and called a few times to Disney. Each time, I got a lot of "dancing" around the truth. I got a rude supervisor who said that I was "lying to him" that COP was closed. (This was the day before it came out in the Orlando Sentinel). With PO/FQ closed, the boats from PO to DD closed, with COP closed, with EE gone, etc. I cannot justify the $10,000+ dollars that it costs all 5 of us to have a Disney vacation. To me, it is simple arithmetic. Less Hours+Less rides and attractions+no discounts=no trip. Hey, why should I have pixie dust in my eyes when Disney doesn't have it for me? They are numbers driven, and now....so am I.
I'll be back when they return to "normal."

Roy :-)

P.S. Do you know what questions they ask you when you enter DCA?? "What ride brought you here today and would you have came if that ride wasn't here?" and "Would you come back another day if DCA was closed today?"
What does that sound like to you? Sound like they're getting ready to add a whole bunch of stuff to DCA and open more hours?? Sounds like the cuts have just begun. See you in 2004.

[Captain Crook]

roymccoy, I always like your posts...

While I do defend WDW in this time of uncertainty, I still wholeheartedly agree that there will be casualites in this war, as well. Were I you, there is no way I'd spend that $$$ to travel into so much uncertainty. In fact, we were going to DL/DCA in October & I cancelled all thoughts of going when I learned Fantasmic was out for the count.

So while I think I understand what's going on with Disney, I fully understand & support people who can't justify the trip right now. Disney WILL have to get a grip on this before they will get back to normalcy...
:smooth: :smooth: :bounce: :smooth: :smooth:

[roymccoy]

Captain Crook. I think you made a wise decision putting off your DCA/DL trip. The hours are short, many rides and attractions are closed and it's hard to find a restaurant open. I think that Disney will be back, in time. After they realize that they need to spend more time and MONEY on their bread and butter....the parks!

Roy

[tonya hall]

Hi all:
I am new to this, but I can't help but want to add my comments on the happiest place on earth. I am a Disney stockholder, I hold an annual pass, I am a Disney club member, and I have a Disney credit card. I think I can safely say I am vested with Disney. I love the mouse. I espescially love what he stands for. One mans dream. But I too see the tarnish on the dream. We have noticed over the past few years the faded paint. The less that spotless areas. And the cuts in staff and production. I for one have been concerned for a while. But I have had no decline in my love for the mouse, or my addiction to the magic. My family and I are going to the World for Christmas, and we're flying!!! We look forward to our trip, but we are disappointed to hear of the changes. We eat breakfast at Tony's as a tradtion and we are upset that Tony's is closed for breakfast. Not to mention there is no early entry. But as die hard Disney fans we will prevail, we will spend, we will enjoy and we will do it again. Why you ask? Because it is the happiest place on earth and there is no other joy to compare with the joy of Disney.:wave: