Disabled Parking - Cheaters?

[sames1]

I've noticed at times people with a disabled parking permit using them to park right up front at Disney Parking lots, as they should. Sometimes though I suspect people are using them to park closer but they don't really need to. Case in point: I knew someone locally that had a permit for their car because their elderly mother needed it. Trouble is, they parked in disabled parking everywhere, mother in the car or not. They took full advantage of the permit.

That kind of makes me mad because other people need that space for real. It's just as bad or worse than a non permit holders parking there. At least with non permit holders they take a risk of getting ticketed.

pirate:

[kaytieeldr]

ITA. There are fewer HP parking spaces at my apartment building than there are tenants with HP placards. I know that at least two of them actually belong to the respective tenants' parents - neither of whom live in the complex (and the rental office claims they can't do anything about it :rolleyes: - not even increase the number of spaces, but I digress)
Anyway, two big misconceptions about HP plates/placards, at least here: first, the purpose is NOT to make things more convenient for the plate/placard holder, although that is usually how the spaces are positioned, but rather to get the disabled person out of the flow of traffic as quickly as possible; and second, the plate/placard is for use only when the disabled person is getting out of the vehicle. I mean, it's not for when I drive my sister someplace and wait for her while she shops - if I'm staying in the car, I need to park in a regular spot.

[shellbelle1971]

Please bear in mind that some people have "hidden" disabilities. That is, they appear normal, but due to "invisible" factors (like a recent surgery, health condition, etc.) may be unable to walk more than a certain distances, etc.

[sames1]

Please bear in mind that some people have "hidden" disabilities. That is, they appear normal, but due to "invisible" factors (like a recent surgery, health condition, etc.) may be unable to walk more than a certain distances, etc.

Yes.. that's true. Those that would take advantage are aware of that too. It's just too hard to tell. I don't use a permit or wheelchair, and I look totally healthy, but sometimes I can hardly stand up because of back pain. Usually I try to ignore it or sit down for a while.

Hey.. I'm in Utah too, where are you located?

[Cheshire Figment]

I have had a couple of times (once at Disney) when I parked in an HP space and as I was getting out of my car I was asked by a police officer (or Orange County Deputy Sheriff at WDW) to see my placard and my ID. Both times it was a very polite transaction, especially when my ID and placard matched.

In one discussion I was told (after asking) that if it had not matched I would have gotten a very expensive ticket and the placard would have been confiscated. Also, the owner of the placard would have had a difficult time getting a replacement unless it had been reported as missing, in which case I might have been in even more trouble.

In Florida the placard has two stickers (one on each side) which have the expiration month and year (in large type), and the preprinter serial number of the placard and the person's driver;s licence (or State ID) number. When I was in Virginia it had my name and birth date on one side, and I was permitted to use something (such as a piece of paper of the information) to keep it from general public view.

[BillSears]

Shepherd Book in the TV series Firefly had a line that comforts me in those times I see people abuse handicapped parking spaces.

"If you take sexual advantage of her, you're going to burn in a very special level of hell. A level they reserve for child molesters and people who talk at the theater." — Shepherd Book

I just add the abusers to the list of people who will reside in that special level of hell.

[clkelley]

I have had a couple of times (once at Disney) when I parked in an HP space and as I was getting out of my car I was asked by a police officer (or Orange County Deputy Sheriff at WDW) to see my placard and my ID. Both times it was a very polite transaction, especially when my ID and placard matched.

In one discussion I was told (after asking) that if it had not matched I would have gotten a very expensive ticket and the placard would have been confiscated. Also, the owner of the placard would have had a difficult time getting a replacement unless it had been reported as missing, in which case I might have been in even more trouble.

In Florida the placard has two stickers (one on each side) which have the expiration month and year (in large type), and the preprinter serial number of the placard and the person's driver;s licence (or State ID) number. When I was in Virginia it had my name and birth date on one side, and I was permitted to use something (such as a piece of paper of the information) to keep it from general public view.

That's really odd, in Alabama, there is no identifying information on the hang tags at all. The expiration year is permanently printed on the placard and the expiration month is punched. It does have a serial number on it, so I guess they could cross-reference it on a computer check, but I've never heard of it being done. Currently most permanent disable hang cards in Alabama expire in 2007. Hubby has a permanent tag on his car and he got a hang tag for my truck for when he is in the truck.

[SueOKW]

I always assume the person who parked in a handicapped spot did so appropriately. I can't afford to take on any anger - especially if it's possibly misplaced!

I may be a perfect example of people you see parking in a HC spot - here's an example..

We arrive at OKW and park in the HC spot, and unload DS and his wheelchair and our luggage etc. and go into our room. Then I leave for the grocery store. I walk to the van (no one with me) and climb in and drive away. At the store I park in a normal spot. Coming back to OKW I return to the HC spot because the next time we leave, we will have DS with us and will need space to have the doors open etc.

Should I be criticized? I think not.

[sames1]

It is me, or does there seem to be an adnormal about of Cadillacs with HC stickers? Perhaps people with disabilities prefer Cadillacs more or my reticular activator is kicking in. I don't know.

[Linda Bell]

That's really odd, in Alabama, there is no identifying information on the hang tags at all. The expiration year is permanently printed on the placard and the expiration month is punched. It does have a serial number on it, so I guess they could cross-reference it on a computer check, but I've never heard of it being done. Currently most permanent disable hang cards in Alabama expire in 2007. Hubby has a permanent tag on his car and he got a hang tag for my truck for when he is in the truck.

There should be a little credit card size ID permit you carry in your wallet. It has the name, the expiration, the number of placards and the serial numbers (from the tags) on it. Probably your husband carries it with him as usually you only get one ID card for all vehicles :moped: .

They do check occassionly where I live for matching ID and tags.

Linda

[Schmeck]

ITA.
Anyway, two big misconceptions about HP plates/placards, at least here: first, the purpose is NOT to make things more convenient for the plate/placard holder, although that is usually how the spaces are positioned, but rather to get the disabled person out of the flow of traffic as quickly as possible; and second, the plate/placard is for use only when the disabled person is getting out of the vehicle.

Or getting back in, right? ;)

I thought HP spots were also designed to be bigger than regular parking slots, so that sideloading lifts could unload as well?

[vhoffman]

It is me, or does there seem to be an adnormal about of Cadillacs with HC stickers? Perhaps people with disabilities prefer Cadillacs more or my reticular activator is kicking in. I don't know.

People with disabilities oftentimes prefer larger cars, such as Cadillacs, to accomodate their various needs. Cars of this style have larger trunks and back seats to store wheelchairs, walkers, etc. I do not use a wheelchair, however, I need a larger-than midsize car (we have a van and a Buick LeSabre). I find I need a vehicle that's not too low to the ground and with a wider door opening to manuever in and out of. For our next car purchase we're considering a Lincoln Towncar, which is a larger car. However, a Cadillac might be something to consider as well.

[vhoffman]

People who "cheat" using others disabled parking permits are a real sore point with me, but sometimes life hands them a little of their rotteness back.

When my mother died, a "friend" of her's asked me if she could have my mother's disabled permit! She was perfectly healthy! I wanted to tell her off but didn't need the stress at the time, so I just told her I couldn't find it. Now she's disabled and in a nursing home. Recently she lamented to me about how hard it was to go anywhere for lack of appropriate parking. She was especially disappointed when her family attempted to take her to a special Christmas show and they had to leave without seeing the show because they couldn't find anywhere to park. Wonder why all those handicapped places were occupied?

Several years ago my fil had a stroke which left him in a wheelchair. My mil, who was perfectly healthy at the time, had no reservations about using it for her convenience, when he wasn't even with her. Well, last year mil had a stroke and now she has a handicapped permit of her very own! I felt like saying that now she never needs to worry about parking again, she will always have her very own permit! Of course, that doesn't help if the handicapped places are full when she gets there..............

Life has a way of getting back at people. Time wounds all heals!

[vhoffman]

I always assume the person who parked in a handicapped spot did so appropriately. I can't afford to take on any anger - especially if it's possibly misplaced!

I may be a perfect example of people you see parking in a HC spot - here's an example..

We arrive at OKW and park in the HC spot, and unload DS and his wheelchair and our luggage etc. and go into our room. Then I leave for the grocery store. I walk to the van (no one with me) and climb in and drive away. At the store I park in a normal spot. Coming back to OKW I return to the HC spot because the next time we leave, we will have DS with us and will need space to have the doors open etc.

Should I be criticized? I think not.

Here's another example of misjudging the situation. On a recent trip to Disney we parked in a handicapped place in the Contemporary lot while we had dinner at Chef Mickey's. My dh went back to the car to get his camera. Some poeple parked next to him made several rude comments about people using handicapped permits inappropriately, etc. He just ignored them and went about his business. However, what if a security or police officer had approached him and his ID didn't match the permit? My permit has my driver's license on it. Am I expected to always be in the vehicle in order to utilize the parking space? I really don't know how such a situaiton would be handled, however, I do wish someone would challenge my sil who uses her grandmother's permit, although her grandmother has been dead several years and sil is perfectly healthy.

[Michigan]

however, I do wish someone would challenge my sil who uses her grandmother's permit, although her grandmother has been dead several years and sil is perfectly healthy.


Well then turn her in to the division in her state that issues the passes. In my state it’s the department of motor vehicles.

[Biscuitsmom31]

About a year and a half ago, the firm I work for hired a new courier (19 year old girl). I went with her on her first few errands to teach her where to go. We were having trouble finding a parking spot at one of our stops, so she reached under the seat of her car and pulled out a disabled parking permit and said "We can use this!" I was shocked! This girl is a gymnast who was bragging about running 2 miles a day. I told her that I'm married to a disabled man who NEEDs one of those spots and if she was going to park in it she would have to run over my dead body. :p

[LindsayDunn228]

About a year and a half ago, the firm I work for hired a new courier (19 year old girl). I went with her on her first few errands to teacher where to go. When we were having trouble finding a parking spot at one of our stops, she reaches under the seat of her car and pulls out a disabled parking permit and says "We can use this!" I was shocked! This girl is a gymnast who was bragging about running 2 miles a day. I told her that I'm married to a disabled man who NEEDs one of those spots and if she was going to park in it she would have to run over my dead body. :p
Misread this the first time. ETA: Good for you!

[Tissa]

I had a lady make a comment to me a while back at the grocery store about not looking disabled. Well I'm not but my ds in the back is :wave2:

The problem I have been running into lately is at ds's school. It has a small parking lot and only has 3 handicapped spaces and they are always full of cars with NO handicapped tags. I spoke to the principal about this one day and she told me that it was a problem and I needed to call the police on them. Isn't this her school? We were running late for a Dr's appt so I just wrote a note and put on the cars that said they were parking illegally and the police have been notified. Hopefully it scared them a little.

[clkelley]

There should be a little credit card size ID permit you carry in your wallet. It has the name, the expiration, the number of placards and the serial numbers (from the tags) on it. Probably your husband carries it with him as usually you only get one ID card for all vehicles :moped: .

They do check occassionly where I live for matching ID and tags.

Linda

Nope, nothing like that, at least not here in Alabama.

[Andrew Bichard]

It is me, or does there seem to be an adnormal about of Cadillacs with HC stickers? Perhaps people with disabilities prefer Cadillacs more or my reticular activator is kicking in. I don't know.

Many years ago, I recall going to Medievel Nights in Orlando and all three 'disabled' spaces right out front in the parking lot were taken by a single stretch limo with a handicap placard. Apparently parked up legally, but I would have assumed the driver should of moved it after dropping off his passenger!

Andrew

[SueM in MN]

Or getting back in, right? ;)

I thought HP spots were also designed to be bigger than regular parking slots, so that sideloading lifts could unload as well?
Some of the spots are larger, with a loading area next to them, but most of the spots are no bigger than an average parking spot in the same lot. One of my pet peaves (since we do have a ramp) is people in cars with handicapped permits who park in the larger spots. I have no way of knowing if that was the only spot available when they got there, or whether they just parked there without realizing that some psots are larger than others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda Bell
There should be a little credit card size ID permit you carry in your wallet. It has the name, the expiration, the number of placards and the serial numbers (from the tags) on it. Probably your husband carries it with him as usually you only get one ID card for all vehicles .

They do check occassionly where I live for matching ID and tags.

Linda


Nope, nothing like that, at least not here in Alabama.

That's really odd, in Alabama, there is no identifying information on the hang tags at all. The expiration year is permanently printed on the placard and the expiration month is punched. It does have a serial number on it, so I guess they could cross-reference it on a computer check, but I've never heard of it being done. Currently most permanent disable hang cards in Alabama expire in 2007. Hubby has a permanent tag on his car and he got a hang tag for my truck for when he is in the truck.
There are certain Federal minimum requirements that all the states have to meet - those include things like the size of the handicapped parking permit, the color (blue is a longer expiration date for long term disability; red is a temporary parking permit for temporary disabilities) and a way to positively identify the person who the parking permit is issued to.
Different states have different ways of doing that. Some have chosen to issue a special ID to the person it is issued to, some have not because it's not a requirement. And, it becomes something else to carry - even without a special card, the serial number on the card can be checked in the computer and compared to a driver's license or other ID.

When we lived in Wisconsin, DD's first permit had her name and age printed right on the permit. Her second one from Wisconsin just said something like female and her year of birth (so a 30 yr old woman would not be able to use her grandmother's permit).
Her current (Minnesota) permit has a number on it, but no other ID.

Currently most permanent disable hang cards in Alabama expire in 2007.
The reason for that is there were some changes in the requirements for handicapped parking permits - at one point, if you had a permanent disability; you got a permanent card with no expiration date. That lead to a lot of abuse - when Grandma died, someone else might use the card forever until they were caught. I don't remember the year, but the requirements changed to mandate that all cards expire and need to be renewed after a certain amount of time. So, anyone who had a "permanent" card when that changed would have gotten a new card with a new expiration date that year and would be up for "renewal" in the same year. (which seems to be 2007 in Alabama).

[keishashadow]

Are you following me?;) Most caddy's have lumbar support systems & various other niceities for "bad backs". Think once you're pushing 50 comfort becomes an issue for us all.

As for handicap placards, we're new to this. Assume we can use PA issued card w/rental car in FL?

OT Q #1 - are hc parking spots readily available @ the parks (other than opening time) & hotels? If all spots are gone, is there up-close/drop off areas near the park gates.

OT Q #2 - generally, is it considered "poor form" to park in van spot if no others are available.
It is me, or does there seem to be an adnormal about of Cadillacs with HC stickers? Perhaps people with disabilities prefer Cadillacs more or my reticular activator is kicking in. I don't know.

[Michigan]

As for handicap placards, we're new to this. Assume we can use PA issued card w/rental car in FL?

OT Q #1 - are hc parking spots readily available @ the parks (other than opening time) & hotels? If all spots are gone, is there up-close/drop off areas near the park gates.
OT Q #2 - generally, is it considered "poor form" to park in van spot if no others are available

Yes

If you don't have a wheelchair or scooter you will be closer if you park in the regular spots and tell the parking person that you need to park on the end next to the tram for medical reasons

.There is nothing that says you can't park in the spot. However, as a person that had a side lift I can tell you that if there isn't a spot for someone with a side lift or two regular parking spaces so a van can park taking up both spaces then the person in the van is out of luck.

[Michigan]

I park in a monthly only lot that is owned by the city. Everyday on my way walking in I always just look to see when the pass expires on those in the handicap spaces and today there was a brand new jag parked in a handicap spot with a permit that expired in 2002 :sad2: . I walked over and explained to the person that verifies that we have a monthly pass when we enter the lot and told her that as a mother of 2 kids in wheelchairs it ticks me off when people abuse it and someone with a pass that expired 4 years ago is an abuser. She called to have the car ticketed. :woohoo:
:banana:

[spiceycat]

I park in a monthly only lot that is owned by the city. Everyday on my way walking in I always just look to see when the pass expires on those in the handicap spaces and today there was a brand new jag parked in a handicap spot with a permit that expired in 2002 :sad2: . I walked over and explained to the person that verifies that we have a monthly pass when we enter the lot and told her that as a mother of 2 kids in wheelchairs it ticks me off when people abuse it and someone with a pass that expired 4 years ago is an abuser. She called to have the car ticketed. :woohoo:
:banana:

good for you!!! :cheer2:


Mother is 84 and can barely walk 10 steps without suport....

but she still complaints she is not disabled...

anyway a last year I got her to get a handicapped parking permit...before then at one of the reststop at Florida she was gone 30 minutes - I finally went to look for her.... She had gotten lost and I mean lost at the reststop...

so if putting the car where mother can see it means taking one for you van - sorry... but my heart can't afford to lose her again...

If I can't park where she can see it - I go (with Spicey) and wait outside so she can see me.

Alabama does not kept up with the plascent the way other states seems too.

She got no card (I would have kept it - she is losing stuff). I kept parking permit in my car - but I only do disabled when she is in the car.... Al charges an extra $50 for the disabled tag and that is too much for mother to afford it.

I still can't get her to use her parking permit - when I am not with her....

one day she is going to get killed going to the grocery store - she is going to walk in front of a teen driver going to fast....because she won't use the disabled parking...

[LindsayDunn228]

I do not use a lift. I drive a car. I park in the van accessible spots a lot because in some places they are the only handicapped spots that have lines on one side. I HAVE to have room to get my car door open all the way so I can unload my wheelchair. If I park in a regular handicapped spot and someone parks too close to me, I cannot get into my car.

So don't assume every car that is parked in a van accessible spot is an inconsiderate person.

[keishashadow]

Thanks. Probably sounds stupid but, we've never been on one of their trams...do transport chairs fit into them?

We have a new super Wal-Mart by us & they have spots that sit parallel as opposed to the traditional "head-on" parking for vans...think it's a great idea.

Yes

If you don't have a wheelchair or scooter you will be closer if you park in the regular spots and tell the parking person that you need to park on the end next to the tram for medical reasons

.There is nothing that says you can't park in the spot. However, as a person that had a side lift I can tell you that if there isn't a spot for someone with a side lift or two regular parking spaces so a van can park taking up both spaces then the person in the van is out of luck.

[Talking Hands]

I had a lady make a comment to me a while back at the grocery store about not looking disabled. Well I'm not but my ds in the back is :wave2:

The problem I have been running into lately is at ds's school. It has a small parking lot and only has 3 handicapped spaces and they are always full of cars with NO handicapped tags. I spoke to the principal about this one day and she told me that it was a problem and I needed to call the police on them. Isn't this her school? We were running late for a Dr's appt so I just wrote a note and put on the cars that said they were parking illegally and the police have been notified. Hopefully it scared them a little.
All the principal can do is call the police same as you. Block their car and call the police.

[kaytieeldr]

I told her that I'm married to a disabled man who NEEDs one of those spots and if she was going to park in it she would have to run over my dead body. Well, you're still alive, so at least we know she doesn't do it when you're around :)

spoke to the principal about this one day and she told me that it was a problem and I needed to call the police on them. Isn't this her school? It actually is a police/law issue, so I can see why the police would need to be called - but you mean the principal should have made the phone call, right? She probably doesn't want to alienate those other drivers :rolleyes:

Some of the spots are larger, with a loading area next to them, but most of the spots are no bigger than an average parking spot in the same lot. One of my pet peaves (since we do have a ramp) is people in cars with handicapped permits who park in the larger spots. I have no way of knowing if that was the only spot available when they got there, or whether they just parked there without realizing that some psots are larger than others. I know somebody here (who I won't identify, but the Dis-er may speak up on his/her own) often has problems at one of the parks with idiots - Sue, is mild profanity acceptable? I'll edit that to say what I really mean ;)) who park in the striped areas between HP spaces! I wouldn't be surprised if you find the same thing, but at least one of you can pull your van out of the space so you can extend the ramp. This person doesn't have that option and may not be able to access the van for hours!

They do check occassionly where I live for matching ID and tags I went to a concert here (Tweeter Center, Mansfield MA) last year. When I pulled into the HP lot, the parking attendant needed to actually examine my placard to make sure it was valid, legitimate and with MY picture on it. I frankly don't care if they have the 'right' to do this - although it's private property - I appreciate that they DO do it.

The reason for that is there were some changes in the requirements for handicapped parking permits - at one point, if you had a permanent disability; you got a permanent card with no expiration date. That lead to a lot of abuse - when Grandma died, someone else might use the card forever until they were caught. LOL - yeah, my sister has my dad's eternal placard, his expiring placard, my brother's expiring placard and the one the RMV finally sent my mom after she died. NO, she does not use them!!!!!!!!!!!! She bought my mom's house, so she got everything in it as well :) Anyway, dad's original placard I'm surprised hasn't disintigrated yet - but I still see people using those, and in about the same condition!

Thanks. Probably sounds stupid but, we've never been on one of their trams...do transport chairs fit into them? Probably not. I mean, you need to be able to fold it and it can't take up the space where somebody else would sit, and everybody needs to be sitting. And the trams aren't accessible - you need to step up into and down from them.

[michelle9343]

I had something happen today.I was taking my DD to a Dr appt in Orlando. Parking is a NIGHTNARE. I finally gave in a went to park in the garage. The attentent was questioning me about needed handicap parking, which really caught me off guard she said with a attitude" You need a handicap spot?" I said excuse me? It is for my daughter in a WC. She took a few mins to process and let me in. Sad part there was no handicap parking availible so I had to park on level 2 and attempt to get her chair up a step to get to an evelvator. It is amazing how not being able to get an accessible parking spot can make an incredibly difficult day that much harder. :sad2:

[Biscuitsmom31]

I know somebody here (who I won't identify, but the Dis-er may speak up on his/her own) often has problems at one of the parks with idiots - Sue, is mild profanity acceptable? I'll edit that to say what I really mean ;)) who park in the striped areas between HP spaces! I wouldn't be surprised if you find the same thing, but at least one of you can pull your van out of the space so you can extend the ramp. This person doesn't have that option and may not be able to access the van for hours!


This has happened to my DH several times. He has had people park their motorcycles or cars in the yellow striped zones right next to our van. It has happened more than once when the kids were with him. He just had to wait until they moved so he could lower the lift. I don't think these people really intended to leave him stranded. I think they were just thoughtless and in a hurry.

[Cheshire Figment]

I have the Orange, Osceola and Polk County Sheriff's non-emergency numbers in my cell phone, as well as the Orlando and Kissimmee Police Departments. I am always more than willing to call in and report illegal use of handicap spaces.

[SueM in MN]

I do not use a lift. I drive a car. I park in the van accessible spots a lot because in some places they are the only handicapped spots that have lines on one side. I HAVE to have room to get my car door open all the way so I can unload my wheelchair. If I park in a regular handicapped spot and someone parks too close to me, I cannot get into my car.

So don't assume every car that is parked in a van accessible spot is an inconsiderate person.
Sorry.
When I wrote I was thinking of Target, where I go most and have problems most.
They have crosshatched loading areas beside each handicapped parking spot, and you would have space (plus space left over) to open your door in the regular handicapped spots at the Targets close to us.
Their van accessible spots have a crosshatched spot almost as wide as a regular parking spot next to it.

Edited to add:
I should have added a "disclamer" in my first post sort of similar to what I usually put when the subject of handicapped stalls in bathrooms come up; that some people are using them by choice and some by necessity and that I hope those who can choose will choose to leave the van accessible handicapped spots for those who don't have a choice. Most people I see using them are not using a wheelchair or a walker, so they could fit in a regular handicapped spot easily. Most people are just not aware that there are different size of access spaces.

Also, the regular handicapped spots are supposed to have a 5 foot wide access spot next to them, which should be wide enough for a car door to fully open without needing to use the van accessible space (which should have an 8 foot wide access space). Some of the spaces are supposed to be on the passenger size and some on the driver side like this:
ADA parking requirements (http://midpavecon.com/ada.htm) (that is a non-official summary page, but it includes links to the actual ADA site - the info is much harder to find on the actual site).
Anyway, those are the minimum requirements. Minnesota must be pretty good about making places follow them because what is listed there, is pretty much what I find. Some states probably aren't and some places might think all that's involved in providing handicapped parking is putting a sign on one of their regular spots.
If it's not possible to park in a regular handicapped spot and fully open the door, it sounds like the stalls probably do not meet the minimum requirement. Or, they may have all the access spaces on one side - some should be on the passenger side and some should be on the driver side, since the person who needs the extra space may be on either side. If they don't meet the minimum requirements, the place can be forced to change them or be fined.

[spiceycat]

I know somebody here (who I won't identify, but the Dis-er may speak up on his/her own) often has problems at one of the parks with idiots - Sue, is mild profanity acceptable? I'll edit that to say what I really mean ;)) who park in the striped areas between HP spaces! I wouldn't be surprised if you find the same thing, but at least one of you can pull your van out of the space so you can extend the ramp. This person doesn't have that option and may not be able to access the van for hours!



you know I actually saw this happen....I didn't say anything - next time I will definitely mention to him that is blocking someone.

[travelitis]

I don't like cheaters, either, but I never assume other people are guilty of that. I know that's exactly what we look like unless we're carting a wheelchair which we do only occassionally. If my son needs a chair at Walmart, he can use theirs. I will drop him at the door then go park to avoid using our placard, but there are times we really need it. My point is that we look like two perfectly healthy adults with 3 healthy kids, yet my son is homebound from school and taking light chemotherapy for JA, but that's not what people see. They see a family who they think has grandma's placard. Unless you know the person, you can't know if they are cheating.

BTW - In TX there's no ID to prove you own the placard, but your license plate numbers are on the application. FL does have a system of some sort, but we got a warning for using my son's placard in a FL car. I told them the placard goes with a person not a car.

[Cheshire Figment]

I once saw someone parked in the striped area in a shopping center when I lived in Virginia. I called the local police department and when I came out of the store about 15 minutes later the tow truck was hooking up and I could see a ticket tucked under the windshield wiper.

[SueM in MN]

I once saw someone parked in the striped area in a shopping center when I lived in Virginia. I called the local police department and when I came out of the store about 15 minutes later the tow truck was hooking up and I could see a ticket tucked under the windshield wiper.
I think the police are more aware now. We have already been blocked in by someone doing that (VERY annoying). I went back into the mall, complained to mall security and had them call the police (this was a long time ago and I didn't have cell phone). When the policeman came, he said he could not ticket the car because there was "no sign that said you couldn't park there." I said I thought that was what the crosshatched lines meant, but he still would not issue a ticket.
Since then, I have called in myself, didn't wait around and have seen people with tickets. I have also written notes and left them on cars parked on the cross hatched spots to let them know they were parked on a necessary access lane and could get a ticket for parking there.

[kaytieeldr]

LOL! There's a supermarket a few miles from me that actually posts signs at the crosshatched or closed-striped areas stating that it's illegal to park there.

Yeah, I know I'm getting a little :off-topic: but the doughnut shop I stop at most mornings is in a mini-strip mall (three stores = mini, right?) and almost every day, despite numerous available designated parking spaces, some twit or other simply HAS to park blocking the curb cut :rolleyes: Now, this doesn't affect me because I generally use the drive-through, but more than once when I've gone into the shop and come out to find this, I'll go back in and ask whose car that is. No, I don't need it, but why are they parking there? People need to be made aware.

[Luv'sTink]

There should be a little credit card size ID permit you carry in your wallet. It has the name, the expiration, the number of placards and the serial numbers (from the tags) on it.


In Washington state they have these! I think the placard should have the picture of the person on it.

[JR6ooo4]

When the policeman came, he said he could not ticket the car because there was "no sign that said you couldn't park there." I said I thought that was what the crosshatched lines meant, but he still would not issue a ticket.

Were they painted a solid yellow line.
I believe there is one of those in the center of most roads (no passing zone) and if you cross it you have earned a ticket. There is no sign for that!
Cops do not always do what they should.
Mikeeee

[pugdog]

Also, the regular handicapped spots are supposed to have a 5 foot wide access spot next to them, which should be wide enough for a car door to fully open without needing to use the van accessible space (which should have an 8 foot wide access space). Some of the spaces are supposed to be on the passenger size and some on the driver side like this:
ADA parking requirements (http://midpavecon.com/ada.htm) (that is a non-official summary page, but it includes links to the actual ADA site - the info is much harder to find on the actual site).
Anyway, those are the minimum requirements. Minnesota must be pretty good about making places follow them because what is listed there, is pretty much what I find. Some states probably aren't and some places might think all that's involved in providing handicapped parking is putting a sign on one of their regular spots.
If it's not possible to park in a regular handicapped spot and fully open the door, it sounds like the stalls probably do not meet the minimum requirement. Or, they may have all the access spaces on one side - some should be on the passenger side and some should be on the driver side, since the person who needs the extra space may be on either side. If they don't meet the minimum requirements, the place can be forced to change them or be fined.
Wish it was that way here in MN Sue.
The new shopping center in Oakdale just opened and didn't have the right number and correct stipping done. I have been writing letters and they are going to restipe it correct but won't add the spots that need to be there. So I do seee a ADA violation law suit coming their way.
As far as the worst offender it was a 50something guy using a red temp card. I saw him jump out and place the card on the mirrior. The give away was that it was to used and worn out for being a 6 month card. So I looked at the date and saw it was 6 years :confused3 past its expire date. Soooo since it was an open convertible I reached in and grabbed it :ssst: and placed it elsewhere and called the local police.

[SueM in MN]

Wish it was that way here in MN Sue.
The new shopping center in Oakdale just opened and didn't have the right number and correct stipping done. I have been writing letters and they are going to restipe it correct but won't add the spots that need to be there. So I do seee a ADA violation law suit coming their way.
As far as the worst offender it was a 50something guy using a red temp card. I saw him jump out and place the card on the mirrior. The give away was that it was to used and worn out for being a 6 month card. So I looked at the date and saw it was 6 years :confused3 past its expire date. Soooo since it was an open convertible I reached in and grabbed it :ssst: and placed it elsewhere and called the local police.
It seems to be pretty good right around here; sad to hear it's not that way where you are.

[pugdog]

most other places are good, just this one. strange :confused3

[JenJen]

I have a non apparent disability (Fibromylagia and CFIDS) and have a placard. I try not to use the handicap spots if I can avoid it but today I ran into a pickle! Me and my friend decided to go to Down Town Disney (California) and there was only one spot left. The next closest spot was about 1 1/2 to 2 blocks away. I almost felt guilty for taking the spot because 1.) It was a large spot for a van and I can walk and don't need a wheelchair.
2) I know there are people that are worse off then me. I was having a moderate pain day with moderate fatigue. The problem I have is I get tired very easy and if I did not park close I would have to deal with extreme fatigue and pain the following day. With my condition the pain and fatigue is delayed and it depends on how much you do the day before.
At that moment parking in that spot was not a NEED but a preventative measure. It is very hard making the decision to take the spot or leave it for someone who can not access the facility with out the wide spot.
Also I am 31 years old but look about 25 maybe even younger because I get carded for lottery tickets and I get the looks when I park in a handicap spots.
So I have two choices. Leave the spot for someone who can not have access unless they park there or deal with extreme pain and fatigue that night and the next day to the point I can not function. I really have a hard time deciding what to do when I go out and often times I park far away because I feel guilty for using the placard. Then there are times I see a group of teens parking in one of the spots and running out of the car ....But who am I to judge they can have something wrong that I can not see.
I really would like every ones opinion on what you all think is ethically right. please just tell me how you feel I will not get my feelings hurt. It is something that has been bothering me for a very long time and I just want to do what is right!
Thank you!
((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))
Jen

[SueM in MN]

Were they painted a solid yellow line.
I believe there is one of those in the center of most roads (no passing zone) and if you cross it you have earned a ticket. There is no sign for that!
Cops do not always do what they should.
Mikeeee
The lines in the case I mentioned were blue stripped. Most of the handicapped spots around by our house have blue stripes on the cross-hatched area.

[Michigan]

Jen first off know that I am not attacking you but rather just asking questions.

Do you use a wheelchair after you park? I guess I don’t understand if you don’t but you walked all over downtown Disney what is the difference between that and walking from a regular spot.

Does downtown Disney California valet park for free if you have a handicap pass like downtown Disney Florida?

Again this wasn’t an attack just questions from a Mom who has 2 kids that are paralyzed and can’t stand at all.

Cindy

[LindsayDunn228]

Jen first off know that I am not attacking you but rather just asking questions.

Do you use a wheelchair after you park? I guess I don’t understand if you don’t but you walked all over downtown Disney what is the difference between that and walking from a regular spot.

Does downtown Disney California valet park for free if you have a handicap pass like downtown Disney Florida?

Again this wasn’t an attack just questions from a Mom who has 2 kids that are paralyzed and can’t stand at all.

Cindy

I was actually wondering the exact same thing.

[SueM in MN]

At that moment parking in that spot was not a NEED but a preventative measure. It is very hard making the decision to take the spot or leave it for someone who can not access the facility with out the wide spot.................
So I have two choices. Leave the spot for someone who can not have access unless they park there or deal with extreme pain and fatigue that night and the next day to the point I can not function. I really have a hard time deciding what to do when I go out and often times I park far away because I feel guilty for using the placard.
I think you are using it for a valid reason; it is a need, not maybe today, but for what it will mean tomorrow. For some people, they will have immediate effects of the exertion. In your case, it will be tomorrow.

You did post that the only other free spot was a block and 1/2 away. That is pretty far, but as other posters mentioned, you will be walking farther than that in the park once you get in, if you are not using a wheelchair.

(I might be disappointed/annoyed when there is no spot for us to use, but I realize there is no guarantee one will be available. I don't judge who is using it, just hope they have looked at their options).

If there is only one spot left, I don't think you should feel guilty using it.
But, you should look at other options (especially if you are using the last spot). Things like being dropped off and waiting for your friend, checking into valet, etc.

[JenJen]

Thanks for all your responses....I do not use a wheelchair unless I go all day to the parks. What I have to do is about every 5 minutes I had to sit and rest then I resume walking. Wheelschairs tend to make me hurt more because they make me stiff so I am better off walking and resting, walking and resting, walking resting. I have to admit I am not the most fun person to go to Disneyland with it takes a lot of patients but I refuse to give up the one thing that I enjoy. (I am stubborn) I am not taking any of your post as attacks I just wanted your honest opinion. I have never asked about valet parking I will ask next time I go thanks for the suggestion!
((((((((((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))) )))))))))
Jen

[dj2]

I always assume the person who parked in a handicapped spot did so appropriately.

I can't afford to take on any anger - especially if it's possibly misplaced!

started to read this thread, then stopped here. i absolutely love this line!

you always seem to have something nice to say. :goodvibes just wanted to say thanks.
-dj

[philaround]

Here in Connecticut there are 3 types of handicap plates/tags.

1. The license plate with the wheelchair logo that has to be renewed at the same interval as any other license plate. This can only be gotten for a car that is actually registered to the handicapped individual.

2. A red hang tag for the rear view mirror that has a serial number preprinted on it and a handwriiten expiration date.

3. A blue hang tag for the rear view mirror that also has a serial number on it but with no expiration date. The blue tag never needs to be replaced unless it is lost or stolen, but first a doctor must sign a form that says you are permanetly disabled.

For a car with the handicap license plate the owner/handicapped person must be in the vehicle, either as the driver or a passenger. It can never be driven by anyone else if the handicapped person is not in the vehicle. the plate can also never be moved to another vehicle without registering the othe vehicle to the handicapped person.

The hang tags can go from vehicle to vehicle with the handicapped person. Once again the handicapped person must be in the vehicle in order to be legal.

The MVD issues a hang tag registration form that must be kept in the car along with the car registration and insurance card, and if requested by a police officer must be presented along with the handicapped person's ID to prove that it being used legally.

[colonels cruisers]

I firmly believe that what goes around comes around and out of the mouths of babes. My DS(4) has a friend who is disabled and his mommie needs the handicapped plate and spot. One time someone jumped out of the car and very briskly walked into a store after parking in the handicapped spot. DS says (at the entry where they can hear).. 'Mommie how come they parked in the spot for people who can not walk when they can?'. The look on the ladies face was priceless.

[Talking Hands]

It's interesting that people with no disability will park in a handicapped spot when someone with one will go ahead and park in a regular spot and leave the handicapped spot for some one who might need it more if they can.
We have about a dozen teachers in our school with handicapped tags but you rarely see them parked in the handicapped spots. Our lot is quite small and nothing is more than about 150 feet from the door. We normally just park in a spot close to the door and leave the handicapped spots for parents bringing their kids into school. We have a lot of wheelchair using kids as we are a SpEd Center.

[BroganMc]

It's interesting that people with no disability will park in a handicapped spot when someone with one will go ahead and park in a regular spot and leave the handicapped spot for some one who might need it more if they can.

My bug-a-boo is finding van accessible parking now that I have my driver's license (took me 2 years, hours of training and a mountain of red tape but I finally got my license in March). I use a power wheelchair so distance is not a problem for me anymore. (When I was only walking, I barely managed the walk to the front door.) But getting blocked in or out of my van is the issue.

Vans with side ramps need about 8 feet on the passenger side for ramp deployment and wheelchair clearance. There are never enough spots available or else the hatchmarks are on the driver's side forcing you to back into a spot in a tricky backwards sharp turn.

Orlando tends to do it right making all handicap spaces extra wide as well as adding the hatchmarks so you can get the ramp space you need every spot. But at home in Maryland, I'm always finding small sedans or huge SUVs and pickup trucks in the van spots (not having ramps themselves). It's very frustrating.

So I end up parking at the furthest edge of the parking lot in hopes all the able-bodied drivers will be too lazy to hike out that far and won't park next to me. Imagine my surprise and frustration when I race out through the pouring rain and find someone has done just that in the hinterlands of the lot? ;)

Another annoyance are the placard drivers who park on the van hatchmarks effectively blocking me in by robbing me of my 8 feet of space. I just had a little old lady do that to me last week as I was about to drive my chair out my ramp. I got her attention and pointed out where she had parked then waited while she moved the car (and half her passengers filed out waiting in annoyance for her). Hey, I could just scrape her car with my chair on the way out or in. Her choice. :)

[Talking Hands]

Another annoyance are the placard drivers who park on the van hatchmarks effectively blocking me in by robbing me of my 8 feet of space. I just had a little old lady do that to me last week as I was about to drive my chair out my ramp. I got her attention and pointed out where she had parked then waited while she moved the car (and half her passengers filed out waiting in annoyance for her). Hey, I could just scrape her car with my chair on the way out or in. Her choice. :)
One thing that irritates me at school is that the school maintenence trucks will park and block the lifts at times so the parent comes out with their child and can't get the lift down so the child can stay in the wheelchair. It is either lift them into a seat and dismantle the wheelchair or go to the front office and do an all call for the guys to come and move it and sometimes this isn't possible because the buses are already arriving and blocking them in.
My sweet husband waits until the buses have gone before picking me up so I don't have to walk out to the street to the car. By the time school is done each day I can barely walk to the car I am in so much pain. Then home, pain meds and a nap to be functional again.

[MommytoMJM]

Well, now that MJ and I have our ramp for our van we are definitely running into issues with being locked into or out of our van by not having a van accessible space... sigh. It's always something I guess.

[vhoffman]

Parking is sometimes the final reason why many disabled people throw in the towel and take disability pay. I mean, you can't hold a job if you can't get in! Its a shame, because many people with disabiities are quite employable, however, the sheer logistics of just getting to work are overwhelming. Many work around it by having a family member/friend drop them off and pick them up. I used to work at large university, many days I was late for work or couldn't even show up at all because university owned vehicles were parked in the handicapped spaces. Go figure! The situation resolved itself when I quit that job and now work from home. My hope for all those who use the handicapped spaces inappropriately is that one day they will be entitled to one of their very own that no one can dispute. Then let the good times roll!!!

[CanadianGuy]

I'm not disabled but I read this conversation with interest.

But it leads me to ask a stupid question... Are handicapped accessible vehicles available for rent in Orlando?

A dear friend is in a wheelchair (paralyzed waist down in a car accident 20 years ago) and he can drive a vehicle equipped with steering controls. He's been thinking about Orlando (he won't be driving) but he's curious about a vehicle that would be easy for him to get in and out of .. without burdening his travel companions too much.

Personally I wish I was going with him because I would go out of my way to take care of his entry and exits.. but I understand his concerns about burdening his travelling friends.

Anyway.. any advice you can offer would be great.

Thanks,

J

[Andrew Bichard]

Are handicapped accessible vehicles available for rent in Orlando?
The ADA requires all car rental companies to offer hand controls as a no-cost option. If your friend can transfer to the drivers seat easily, he will have no problem.

A more expensive option are companies like Rainbow Wheels www.rainbowwheels.com (http://www.rainbowwheels.com)

They rent out fully adapted ramp and lift vans. You can ride right into the van in your chair. The one I rented had a powered drivers seat that slid back to mid van to make transfer easier.

Andrew

[Michigan]

Yesterday was the final day of the Michigan Wheelchair Games. We had our banquet at a place that had a soccer field behind it and the parking lot was hugh. When it was time to leave one of the vans was blocked in by someone on the soccer field. The guy in the van had parked his van on an angle taking up 2 places, there was a sign on his van door that said wheelchair ramp but a jerk parked there anyway. There were lots of empty spaces in the lot so I can't figure out why someone could be that STUPID to park there and block the van in. :confused3

By the way, our team won the team trophy :woohoo: , Megan won :cheer2: 13 gold in swimming, track & field and Michaela won :cheer2: 9 gold in track & Field and also won the Track Athlete of the Meet award. Not that I'm proud or anything. :love:

[Andrew Bichard]

The guy in the van had parked his van on an angle taking up 2 places, there was a sign on his van door that said wheelchair ramp

A bit 'Off Topic'...

Last summer I am at a town on the coast here in the UK. I finish my business early and decide to ride my wheelchair along the boardwalk. Because it is mid-week, and the school vacations are over, the parking lot is empty except for a couple of cars.

I drive a ramp-van. To avoid getting blocked in, I park way up the back of the parking lot, but diagonally across two spaces so no-one can fit in next to me, and so I can I can unfold my side ramp. I display my 'blue badge' (UK hang tag equivalent)

I come back two hours later to find I have a ticket for "failure to park within the designated space".

OK, fair enough, but it's off season and I am one of only four cars in a parking lot big enough for two or three hundred. I explained the circumstances and appealed the ticket. After sending in a photocopy of my badge, they cancelled the ticket. ---- I am lucky I didn't get a second ticket for 'parking in a designated disabled parking space' with no blue badge displayed, whilst I was photocopying it.

Andrew

[CanadianGuy]

The ADA requires all car rental companies to offer hand controls as a no-cost option. If your friend can transfer to the drivers seat easily, he will have no problem.

A more expensive option are companies like Rainbow Wheels www.rainbowwheels.com (http://www.rainbowwheels.com)

They rent out fully adapted ramp and lift vans. You can ride right into the van in your chair. The one I rented had a powered drivers seat that slid back to mid van to make transfer easier.

Andrew


That's AWESOME. He can self transfer from chair to vehicle. He does that now in his own vehicle. He's gonna be thrilled thanks for the info!

J

[Andrew Bichard]

He can self transfer from chair to vehicle. He does that now in his own vehicle. He's gonna be thrilled thanks for the info!

J

I suggest that he books the adapted vehicle in advance. They will want to know if he uses hand controls with his right or left hand so they can fit the controls in advance. One trip they gave me an upgrade because they had an adapted vehicle returned earlier that day and didn't want to strip out the hand controls & fit them into the vehicle I had booked.

Andrew

[BillSears]

I suggest that he books the adapted vehicle in advance. They will want to know if he uses hand controls with his right or left hand so they can fit the controls in advance. One trip they gave me an upgrade because they had an adapted vehicle returned earlier that day and didn't want to strip out the hand controls & fit them into the vehicle I had booked.

Andrew

Be careful of the upgrades. I transfer in and out of the car and slide my folded up wheelchair into the back seat. Of course this only works with a 2 door car. On my last trip they were "nice" enough to upgrade me to a big 4 door car even though I told them I needed the 2 door car. It took them about an hour to swap the hand controls back over to the car I needed.

[Lachesis00]

I too drive a car, but need to open the door all the way as I can not bend my legs far enough if the door is not opened all the way. I literally can not get of the car.

"Luckily" I do look disabled. I have been ripped a new one before by some guy with an older mother who was not even with them. Until I struggled to get out of my car... he then realized, I do indeed need to park there.

My husband will ONLY park in the handicapped spots if I am with him or if he is picking me up/dropping me off. He never EVER has abused the privilege. I think he needs authorization, his asthma is terrible, he is wheezing, I worry he won't even make it to the car when we do park in the spots close up. He refuses too.

Some days I see people who you KNOW do not need to park in those spots, I mean come on... especially those with out permits of *some* kind. I want to take a black sharpie and write all over their windows... :smooth: I never have but the thought has passed my mind more then once. Childish, yes. If you really are disabled, you can go get a permit or license plate.

I do not use a lift. I drive a car. I park in the van accessible spots a lot because in some places they are the only handicapped spots that have lines on one side. I HAVE to have room to get my car door open all the way so I can unload my wheelchair. If I park in a regular handicapped spot and someone parks too close to me, I cannot get into my car.

So don't assume every car that is parked in a van accessible spot is an inconsiderate person.

[BillSears]

Since we've got this nice little thread here labeled. Disabled Parking - Cheaters? I thought I would vent abit.

I was shopping today and heading out of the store when I saw this woman park in a handicapped spot, hop out of her car and head into Starbucks. Thinking of this thread I didn't confront here or anything even though she was wearing 3 inch gold lamae(sp) stilletos and seemed fine. I just assumed she had a valid unseen disability. Of course once I got closer to her car I saw no placard or tag and it was obvious that she just parked there to save herself the extra 4 spaces of walking since there was a normal spot 4 spaces down from the one she parked in. :rolleyes2

[travelitis]

I don't want to sound like I'm defending cheaters, but I maintain that there is no way to know if someone is cheating unless you are personally acquainted with them. Just because you see a car without a placard in a handicapped spot doesn't mean that person doesn't need that spot. It could mean that they are under duress and aren't using common sense. I remember when I went shopping with my best friend and her mom. Having a disability in the family was new, traumatic, and happened fast for them. One day all was well, and the next their daughter was fighting cancer and needed a leg amputated. The policeman didn't care that there was a child who was very sick with cancer and chemo and who'd lost her leg that summer. He didn't change the ticket to a warning and explain the law to her distraught mother. No, the ticket stood, even though Gretchen couldn't. There's the letter of the law, and there's the spirit of the law, and how we react to what we perceive as a violation says as much about us as it does about the ones we judge.

JenJen, I understand about fibro, having it myself to the point I'm not always able to drive. My teen son has JA and fibro, so both of us will pay if we don't budget our energy properly. I've adjusted to fibro, gotten through a tough couple of years and now have it under control, but my son's JA requires light chemo. I understand you need your placard some of the time, which is how it is with us. I've faced the same dilemna. My guideline is that if I feel guilty about taking a handicapped spot, then I probably don't need it enough and should find an alternative. For example: If I intend to walk around Walmart shopping, then I can walk from the furthest parking spot in the lot. If I'm barely able to walk in there to purchase 1 thing, and every step counts, then I can park in a disabled spot with a clear conscience. If disabled spots are scarce I look for alternatives out of concern for others who have it worse. You sound like you're also concerned for others. I wouldn't presume to judge your choice.

[travelitis]

Bill,

I'm in no way saying that the woman you saw compares with my friend. No placard, brisk walk, high heals all make it very hard to believe there's even a hidden disability. I wasn't responding to your post. Let's hope she was so focussed on her errand that she didn't notice it was a disabled spot rather than she didn't care.

[kaytieeldr]

I don't want to sound like I'm defending cheaters, but I maintain that there is no way to know if someone is cheating unless you are personally acquainted with them. Just because you see a car without a placard in a handicapped spot doesn't mean that person doesn't need that spot. Here's the thing. It doesn't matter if a person "needs" to park in a designated handicapped parking space - without a RMV/DMV-issued placard or license plate, they legally can NOT park there.
I remember when I went shopping with my best friend and her mom. Having a disability in the family was new, traumatic, and happened fast for them. One day all was well, and the next their daughter was fighting cancer and needed a leg amputated. The policeman didn't care that there was a child who was very sick with cancer and chemo and who'd lost her leg that summer. He didn't change the ticket to a warning and explain the law to her distraught mother. No, the ticket stood, even though Gretchen couldn't. It's not a perceived violation, it's plain and simple a violation. The law is the law. Some other options might have been to drop off the child and a person near the entrance of wherever they were shopping while the driver parked then walked to the store to meet them, and then reverse the procedure on exiting; or to have contacted the local DMV on realizing that they would be transporting a handicapped person and determining, then following, the requirements for obtaining legitimate authorization (aka plate/placard) for parking in a designated handicapped spot. The spaces ARE marked to the effect that anyone parking there without such proof is subject to having their vehicle towed, never mind ticketed.

[maroon5gurl88]

Being in a wheelchair I see a TON of abuse of placards. The biggest offenders I see are people who have disabilities but use it for themselves, without the handicapped person in the car, and people who use it then RUN inside somewhere, kinda disproving the whole handicapped thing. I've had many violators though who just park in the space, with no plaque at all and PEOPLE WHO KNOW THEM STOP AND TALK TO THEM!

[mytwotinks]

Sorry.
When I wrote I was thinking of Target, where I go most and have problems most.
They have crosshatched loading areas beside each handicapped parking spot, and you would have space (plus space left over) to open your door in the regular handicapped spots at the Targets close to us.
Their van accessible spots have a crosshatched spot almost as wide as a regular parking spot next to it.

Edited to add:
I should have added a "disclamer" in my first post sort of similar to what I usually put when the subject of handicapped stalls in bathrooms come up; that some people are using them by choice and some by necessity and that I hope those who can choose will choose to leave the van accessible handicapped spots for those who don't have a choice. Most people I see using them are not using a wheelchair or a walker, so they could fit in a regular handicapped spot easily. Most people are just not aware that there are different size of access spaces.

Also, the regular handicapped spots are supposed to have a 5 foot wide access spot next to them, which should be wide enough for a car door to fully open without needing to use the van accessible space (which should have an 8 foot wide access space). Some of the spaces are supposed to be on the passenger size and some on the driver side like this:
ADA parking requirements (http://midpavecon.com/ada.htm) (that is a non-official summary page, but it includes links to the actual ADA site - the info is much harder to find on the actual site).
Anyway, those are the minimum requirements. Minnesota must be pretty good about making places follow them because what is listed there, is pretty much what I find. Some states probably aren't and some places might think all that's involved in providing handicapped parking is putting a sign on one of their regular spots.
If it's not possible to park in a regular handicapped spot and fully open the door, it sounds like the stalls probably do not meet the minimum requirement. Or, they may have all the access spaces on one side - some should be on the passenger side and some should be on the driver side, since the person who needs the extra space may be on either side. If they don't meet the minimum requirements, the place can be forced to change them or be fined.
Can I ask a question about handicap bathroom stalls? I don't mean this to be rude at all, I really just wonder. Is it maybe a little bit different. I mean, I sometimes have a stroller with me and if a mom can't fit the stroller in the stall is she supposed to hold her baby when she is in the potty or is it o.k. to use the handicap? I guess to me it seems a little bit different to have to wait for a stall for a minute than to be trapped out of your car and not know when the person is returning. If there is a line and a handicap stall is open isn't it o.k. to use it? Obviously if a handicap person comes in they would be the next in line for it. It doesn't seem unreasonable to use the stall if it is empty. Am I wrong?

[Tinker*Shell*Bell]

I am from a family of people with different disabilities, some w/c and some monility and some developmental issues...so save the flames, but....

You have no right to talk about people cheating on parking unless
A- you know them and know for a fact there is no disability or
B-they have no card/plate/hangtag on their car

not everyone who is handicapped needs a wheelchair and not everyone who "looks" fine (how subjective is that!) really is fine.

Maybe I have a disability but not a wc---

Judge not lest ye be judged...

[LindsayDunn228]

I am from a family of people with different disabilities, some w/c and some monility and some developmental issues...so save the flames, but....

You have no right to talk about people cheating on parking unless
A- you know them and know for a fact there is no disability or
B-they have no card/plate/hangtag on their car

not everyone who is handicapped needs a wheelchair and not everyone who "looks" fine (how subjective is that!) really is fine.

Maybe I have a disability but not a wc---

Judge not lest ye be judged...

I don't think many of us would actually confront someone we thought was cheating. We're just venting our thoughts here, is that ok?

[Tinker*Shell*Bell]

I don't think many of us would actually confront someone we thought was cheating. We're just venting our thoughts here, is that ok?

Sure it's ok to vent, but (this is true) my dad has been confronted for using a hc space (with hc vet plates) because he does not "look" disabled. The person had the audacity to ask what his hc was....um.....none of their damn business....
fwiw- he has an aortic valve replacement, has had multiple strokes, blood clots and takes meds that make him intolerant to high temps. He only parks hc in the summer when it is dangerous for him to be outside for longer than a minute or two. He does not want to park in a hc spot, but sometimes he has to.
And he will quickly exit the car and move rapidly to the store, it is safer for him to get into the a/c.

I agree with some of the ranting about people who should not park there but do anyway ...yet at the same time I think of my dad who looks fine but really is not.

[Biscuitsmom31]

DH got a ticket for parking in a disabled spot last week. His disabled tag fell down into the floorboard and he was unable to reach it so he parked there anyway. He figured the wheelchair lift and wheelchair stickers all over the van would clue people in that he needed to park there. He thought wrong.

[dj2]

my dad has been confronted for using a hc space (with hc vet plates) because he does not "look" disabled.

i was confronted once, too, over a slightly different issue. it was very upsetting. background info--i have MS, with difficulty walking, not too bad after sitting awhile, but gets bad upon exertion. (sadly it's really been getting worse of late....) i can still drive fine.

i had parked in a legitimate regular spot, next to a hc spot, trying to find the closest spot i could get yet avoiding the hc spots if at all possible. this was at a grocery. walking up and down the aisles was too much for me that day, and i definitely needed to lean on the shopping cart like a walker. when i got back to my car, i just couldn't face the thought of returning the cart to the cart stall, and worse yet, walking back to my car without it. so i left it out of the way near the front of my car. well, the people in the hc spot next to me came back a moment later, and a passenger got out and started verbally attacking me for not returning the cart. i showed her my hang tag, and started to explain that it was too hard today, when she walked over to me and pushed me on my left shoulder and said in a mocking voice that she'd just do it for me if it was too much trouble. all i could say to her was that she was just not a nice person.

i guess i shouldn't have gone into the store if i couldn't make it out w/o following all the rules, and i was wrong for not returning the cart. i don't really do much shopping anymore anyway--dh handles it for us. but i think this lady was wrong, too. i wonder what's happened in her life to make the not returning of the cart such a big issue for her that she'd attack me like that. and i hope that i never let my anger overrule my compassion, the way she did on that day.

[BillSears]

i wonder what's happened in her life to make the not returning of the cart such a big issue for her that she'd attack me like that. and i hope that i never let my anger overrule my compassion, the way she did on that day.

There have been many threads concerning returning shopping carts over on the community board. They get pretty heated and eveyone has an opinion.

My bigest problem is people who place thier carts in the lined off area in the handicapped parking. By doing this you've basically prevented anyone in a wheelchair from parking there. We can't move the cart till we get out of the car/van and we can't get out of the car/van until the cart is moved.

From your description you didn't do this. But maybe they were concerned that leaving the cart where you did would prevent someone from parking in the space.

But even with the above the person confronting you was out of line.

[phorsenuf]

I have a hang tag here in NH. Last time I renewed my license I noticed a little wheelchair symbol on it (you know, that universal handicap symbol).
I thought that was a great idea!

[mouse4ever]

Hello,

I have never posted on this board before but this thread caught my attention.

About 12 years ago a bunch of my girlfriends from high school and I went shopping at the local mall. One of my friends had lupus and was unable to walk for very long without having to sit and rest. The whole purpose of going to the mall was to get her out to enjoy herself even though we knew she would spend most of the time sitting on a bench, in a restaurant, or in the movie theater. We took her car (a red Camaro) to the mall so that she could park in the hc space and not have to walk that far. When we got out of the car (4 girls in their early 20's who looked perfectly healthy) an older woman came out of the mall and laid into us about how she had to park at the back of the parking lot and a group of "young kids" were able to park in the hc space. I felt horrible but my friend completely ignored the woman. When we got in the mall I asked if she was alright and she said it was fine. I figured she forgot about it because she never spoke of it again. Lisa died about a year later from complications with lupus at the ripe old age of 26. I had thought about that woman who came out of the mall often wondering if she was still enjoying the long life that she got to live in comparison to my friend and if she realized how lucky she was to be able to walk to the back of the parking lot. Last month Lisa's parents set up a fund in her name for the Ronald McDonald house and in the interview Lisa's mom mentioned the incident at the mall years ago. Here I thought Lisa was fine with what happened and forgotten all about it when in actuallity it bothered her enough that part of the fund her parents are setting up is going toward educating people on the fact that not all disabilities are visible. I have NEVER again judged anyone who parks in a hc space and has a sticker. If they are there illegally they are the one's who have to live with themselves, who am I to judge?

[SueOKW]

What a great story. Mind sharing how someone might donate to that fund?

[Enna]

Can I ask a question about handicap bathroom stalls? I don't mean this to be rude at all, I really just wonder. Is it maybe a little bit different. I mean, I sometimes have a stroller with me and if a mom can't fit the stroller in the stall is she supposed to hold her baby when she is in the potty or is it o.k. to use the handicap? I guess to me it seems a little bit different to have to wait for a stall for a minute than to be trapped out of your car and not know when the person is returning. If there is a line and a handicap stall is open isn't it o.k. to use it? Obviously if a handicap person comes in they would be the next in line for it. It doesn't seem unreasonable to use the stall if it is empty. Am I wrong?



Unfortunately, in my area the handicapped stall is used as just another stall in the bathroom lineup. There's no blue placard or Guest Assistance Card needed. Just last weekend, I had to wait behind about a DOZEN cheerleaders and their chaperones and couldn't even get into the stall because a teen was changing her clothes. I was literally in tears waiting for that stall to open, as I had just had a fall and was in pain and then REALLY had to go because I landed on the wet ground with a full bladder. I have no choice BUT to use the accessible stall, so it bugs me when someone with options takes my access.

What could I say? Nothing I could say would change the situation that the stall was in use by an able-bodied person.

Even in the local Walmart, I find the handicapped stall occupied by employees changing before or after their shift, usually on their cell phone.

In fact, I'm hard pressed to think of a time in recent memory when I was able to have immediate access to the handicapped stall.

Being a mom of young'uns myself, and having had a few years in the double-stroller brigade, I can say that I personally would not have ANY problem with you using the stroller. Sometimes your only other option is to park the stroller outside of the stall and wake a sleeping baby, or wrangle a toddler while you try to tend to personal needs. If the larger stall helps you, then I have no issues with you using it, even though I might have to wait. However, I also think you'd probably be wise enough to notice that there was someone waiting for that particular stall, unlike my examples above, where the person in the stall just didn't seem to care.

Of course, other people's opinions may vary...I can only speak for myself. :)

[SueM in MN]

I have no choice BUT to use the accessible stall, so it bugs me when someone with options takes my access.
That's what I say too.
The handicapped toilet stall isn't like a handicapped parking stall. Other people can use it if it's vacant, but I always hope people who have other options will look at them and choose one of the other options.

[SueM in MN]

TMy bigest problem is people who place thier carts in the lined off area in the handicapped parking. By doing this you've basically prevented anyone in a wheelchair from parking there. We can't move the cart till we get out of the car/van and we can't get out of the car/van until the cart is moved.

From your description you didn't do this. But maybe they were concerned that leaving the cart where you did would prevent someone from parking in the space.

But even with the above the person confronting you was out of line.
::yes::
Because my DD is the disabled one and I am not, I can get out and move the carts, so I do collect the carts I find and put them away. I assume that some of the carts are there because the person who used it/them were not able to return it themselves.

I have seen people who are not parked in the handicapped spots abandon their carts there. I hate it when people do that because it is very inconsiderate.

And, your story is a very good reminder, mouse4ever.

[mouse4ever]

What a great story. Mind sharing how someone might donate to that fund?


That information for some reason was not included in the article about Lisa but I know the money is going to the Ronald McDonald House in Madison WI. Information is:

Contact People:

Anna Healy, House Director, (608)232-4660,
Front Desk, 608-232-4660


Address:
2716 Marshall Court
Madison, WI 53705

I tried to find the article online but could only find this weeks copy of the newspaper, no back copies. :confused3

[Nanajo1]

I had to stop driving myself to my MD's office and to the hosp because I got blocked in one too many times. I lost some independence because someone else didn't know the rules or didn't care. I just received my renewal hangtag. It came with very specific instructions on who could and when to use the hang tag. It stated that parking in the hash marks was illegal. I'm going to make copies and leave them on windshields of offenders. It also stated the HP person must be exiting the car in order for it to be parked in the HP space.

[SueM in MN]

I'm going to make copies and leave them on windshields of offenders. It also stated the HP person must be exiting the car in order for it to be parked in the HP space.
That'sw a very good idea. I have sometimes hand written a note, but leaving the actual printed law information is MUCH better.

[Kristen8]

Hello,

About 12 years ago a bunch of my girlfriends from high school and I went shopping at the local mall. One of my friends had lupus and was unable to walk for very long without having to sit and rest. The whole purpose of going to the mall was to get her out to enjoy herself even though we knew she would spend most of the time sitting on a bench, in a restaurant, or in the movie theater. We took her car (a red Camaro) to the mall so that she could park in the hc space and not have to walk that far. When we got out of the car (4 girls in their early 20's who looked perfectly healthy) an older woman came out of the mall and laid into us about how she had to park at the back of the parking lot and a group of "young kids" were able to park in the hc space. I felt horrible but my friend completely ignored the woman. When we got in the mall I asked if she was alright and she said it was fine. I figured she forgot about it because she never spoke of it again. Lisa died about a year later from complications with lupus at the ripe old age of 26. I had thought about that woman who came out of the mall often wondering if she was still enjoying the long life that she got to live in comparison to my friend and if she realized how lucky she was to be able to walk to the back of the parking lot. Last month Lisa's parents set up a fund in her name for the Ronald McDonald house and in the interview Lisa's mom mentioned the incident at the mall years ago. Here I thought Lisa was fine with what happened and forgotten all about it when in actuallity it bothered her enough that part of the fund her parents are setting up is going toward educating people on the fact that not all disabilities are visible. I have NEVER again judged anyone who parks in a hc space and has a sticker. If they are there illegally they are the one's who have to live with themselves, who am I to judge?



Thanks for this moving story. I'm very sensitive about this issue about disabled parking placards right now. I'm a young woman who looks just fine on the outside. But I had some dental work done three years ago that injured the nerves in my mouth and face. I've been left with excruciating pain across both sides of my face, burning and intense with electric shocks that are triggered by breezes and hot sun and cold. For two years, I lost work and normal life but am now getting some functioning back. It was hard for me to apply for the disabled placard, and I feel awkward when I use it. But it enables me to park near enough to the office to work at all. I always wonder if people are thinking critically when they see me walking normally to and from the car, but they have no idea what I am suffering.

I hope people will enlarge their sense of compassion and not judge by the appearance of a situation.

[LilyWDW]

On the bathroom stall issue:

I am an Interior Design student and we have had to do a ton of work on ADA regulation ( :surfweb: )when it comes to commercial/residential design, including bathrooms. Sad to say, while there are rules on the number of stalls required for occupancy load of a building and the size of said stalls, there is no rule that I can recall about who can and can not use them. The best you can do is explain to people about how you are limited to that one stall while they have the ability to use the other 4+.

I have always be taught to allow a handicapped person ahead of me if it is that stall that becomes open. To me, it is common sense. Now, I do admit that if there is no line but only that one stall open, I will make use of it. However, if I need to use one to change in (aka it will take more then a moment) or I have a choice of stalls, I will use a normal stall. I have been the one in line behind someone in a WC who is waiting for the handicapped stall and have spoken up when someone else tries to take that stall :mad: ... Having learned to much about ADA regs, I hate to see people abuse such things.

[Torontogal]

Firstly, people should be really careful when they suspect someone is "cheating." I have had a number of people screaming at me because they suspected I was cheating. I have been called several names in front of my parents and children. We have a disabled tag on our van and we only park in a disabled spot when we are with my DISABLED father in law (with Parkinson's) who was also hit by a drunk driver in the 1980's (and now walks with a cane). People have screamed at me for parking in such spots - they assume I am able bodied - why am I parking there? People do not realize that the disabled permits are also for disabled passengers as well - NOT DRIVERS ONLY. I really hope that people who have a habit of mouthing off to others be fully aware of the situation. For example, some of us leave our senior parents at the store and later pick them up. We park in those spots as we are PICKING up parents who cannot walk a long distance. I am really tired of people who assume that everyone is a cheater. Once again, I will stress that I have never parked in such a spot if my in-laws are not with me. I am just tired of having to defend myself and say, "look there is my father in law - with is cane ---"

[videogal1]

Thanks for this moving story. I'm very sensitive about this issue about disabled parking placards right now. I'm a young woman who looks just fine on the outside. But I had some dental work done three years ago that injured the nerves in my mouth and face. I've been left with excruciating pain across both sides of my face, burning and intense with electric shocks that are triggered by breezes and hot sun and cold. For two years, I lost work and normal life but am now getting some functioning back. It was hard for me to apply for the disabled placard, and I feel awkward when I use it. But it enables me to park near enough to the office to work at all. I always wonder if people are thinking critically when they see me walking normally to and from the car, but they have no idea what I am suffering.

I hope people will enlarge their sense of compassion and not judge by the appearance of a situation.


Several years ago a fellow employee at a Fortune 500 company started parking in the wheelchair access parking spaces at work. As there were few spaces and many employees I asked the Security Department how it was that an employee with lower arm amputation was able to park in a handicapped parking space, legally, and logically, reserved for use by those who were MOBILITY impaired. After a review of the law they asked him to surrender his placard and reserve use of the handicapped spaces for those who were legally entitled to use them.
MS does not meet the standard of disability required by the ADA, nor does Lupus, facial pain, and on and on. But they may meet local legal standards. Do you know the law under which you are classed as "disabled"?.

It is unfair that some are required to lead lives beset by pain, agony, and illness but, there is a legal standard that defines disability in this country and simply finding a doctor, whether through empathy or ignorance, who will issue a MOBILITY disability parking permit to someone without a MOBILITY-based disability, as defined by the ADA, or local laws, thereby committing fraud, does not mean that someone is legally entitled to use it.
Yes, people are obnoxious and rude and, by my rules of the road it is perfectly reasonable to be rude right back. You must consider your position in court, however, if you do not meet ADA or local disability standards because someone like me, who IS mobility impaired will not have much sympathy for a non-mobility based condition that someone thinks entitles them to a parking space reserved for those who have mobility-based disabilities.
:love:

[SueM in MN]

Firstly, people should be really careful when they suspect someone is "cheating." I have had a number of people screaming at me because they suspected I was cheating. I have been called several names in front of my parents and children. We have a disabled tag on our van and we only park in a disabled spot when we are with my DISABLED father in law (with Parkinson's) who was also hit by a drunk driver in the 1980's (and now walks with a cane). People have screamed at me for parking in such spots - they assume I am able bodied - why am I parking there? People do not realize that the disabled permits are also for disabled passengers as well - NOT DRIVERS ONLY. I really hope that people who have a habit of mouthing off to others be fully aware of the situation. For example, some of us leave our senior parents at the store and later pick them up. We park in those spots as we are PICKING up parents who cannot walk a long distance. I am really tired of people who assume that everyone is a cheater. Once again, I will stress that I have never parked in such a spot if my in-laws are not with me. I am just tired of having to defend myself and say, "look there is my father in law - with is cane ---"
I have been in your situation; where I parked in the handicapped spot because I was picking up or dropping off my DD. She obviously was not with me when I arrived there, but will be when I leave and could not get into the van unless I parked there. From what I have been told at the Department of Motor Vehicles in my state, that is an appropriate use of the permit.

I don't want to give the impression that I have ever (or would ever) "mouthed off" to anyone. The only times I have ever left a note or said anything was in these 2 circumstances:
1) Someone was parked in the crosshatched area, which is illegal and prevents people from using the spot next to the crossed hatched area. When I have left a note, it was very polite (I am in Minnesota, after all); basically saying, "You may not be aware that you are parked in the access spot for a handicapped spot. When you park there, it may not be possible for the person parked in the handicapped spot to get in or out of their vehicle. If I was a police officer, this would be a $200 ticket rather than a note."

2) Someone was parked in the handicapped spot without a permit/license plate showing. I am polite when I say it - on the order of "Were you aware that you are parked in a handicapped spot and don't have a handicapped permit showing?" In several cases, I have gotten thanks from people who had forgotten to put out their permit.
In one case, I got sworn at by a woman who informed me that she had a "child with a heart condition and had a perfect right to park there". I told her that I had noticed she didn't have a permit showing and that I wanted to warn her that I had already called the police because someone had illegally parked in a way that blocked me in. She went in the store without putting up a permit. She got a ticket.

[faeflora]

Recently I had a disabled parking cheater issue.
I was moving out of my dorm room and outside of the dorm there is one handicap space. Well, moveout day is always a nightmare with cars trying to park anywhere just to get all the room stuff crammed into the car. So as I was turning into the parking are a girl and her father zipped into the parking space. I thought ok maybe that have a placard, so I rolled up checked it out and well no they did not have a placard.
Fortunately the security guards were driving by and I explained my situation and they requested that the father move the car so I could park to unload my dorm.
The father and daughter were very embarassed but I had to think, what kind of model are you being for your daughter by taking a clearly marked handicap parking space?
To rub it in for the two cheaters the security guard then proceeded to help me load my car.

[pugdog]

When I went to the Uof MN on move in/out day they will and did give tickets if you parked there with out a sticker.

[TumFamily]

It is very important to realize that not everyone has a VISIBLE handicapp. I have two daugthers with Cystic Fibrosis. They look beautiful and to the human eye you would have no idea that anything is wrong with them.

I have been given the evil eye on many occasions and yelled at too. But, you cannot see their IV lines or the feeding tube underneath my younger daughters shirt. They tire very easily and perspire to the point of rapidly fainting.

So, yes they are entitled to the spot but you would be surprised how many people harrass us over it. I do not feel that I have to justify my parking there either and noone else should have to either. If you have been issued the sticker, than it is your right to use it and you do not have to explain anything to anybody. :love: Deb

[LuluLovesDisney]

There was just an expose on this subject on the news. A man in a scooter has made it his crusade to stop people from illegally parking in designated spots. Some of those he stopped were embarrassed, but most were pretty rude and defensive. I was surprised. He takes pictures of the vehicles as well as the police officers who saw it and didn't ticket it. They were all inducted into the "Hall of Shame".

I know some people have invisible disabilities, but there's no such thing as an invisible placard/decal/license plate, so I don't know how they could have defended parking there.

The worst place I have faced this problem is at the beach, at the Jersey shore. Families constantly use it for loading and unloading chairs, toys, etc. They think 5 or 10 minutes is ok when it's not. Especially not when it is one after another trying to use it that way. With my mother, we would drive around 10 or 15 times before we could actually get into a spot.

[kaytieeldr]

I noticed a poster upthread titled their post "Handicapped sticker".
It's important to note (unfortunately, not among us - and the people who DO need to know probably aren't reading this thread) that there is a HUGE difference between a handicapped plate/placard, and a handicapped sticker. The latter has absolutely NO standing when it comes to parking. Only a DMV/RMV-issued handicapped license plate or hangtag (or, regrettably still at least here in Massachusetts, the old dashboard placards) legally allow the eligible person to use a handicapped parking space.

[Nanajo1]

.
MS does not meet the standard of disability required by the ADA, nor does Lupus, facial pain, and on and on. But they may meet local legal standards. Do you know the law under which you are classed as "disabled"?.
:love:
I believe it is not the diagnosis but the actual disability. The application for the h/p parking asked how far could the applicant walk,etc not only the diagnosis.
ADA is determine by how ADLs are affective not necessarily by diagnosis.

[SueM in MN]

I believe it is not the diagnosis but the actual disability. The application for the h/p parking asked how far could the applicant walk,etc not only the diagnosis.
ADA is determine by how ADLs are affective not necessarily by diagnosis.
::yes::
The ADA talks about needs for accomidation (since 2 people could have the same diagnosis, but not the same needs for accomidation).

[BroganMc]

Can I ask a question about handicap bathroom stalls? I don't mean this to be rude at all, I really just wonder. Is it maybe a little bit different. I mean, I sometimes have a stroller with me and if a mom can't fit the stroller in the stall is she supposed to hold her baby when she is in the potty or is it o.k. to use the handicap? I guess to me it seems a little bit different to have to wait for a stall for a minute than to be trapped out of your car and not know when the person is returning. If there is a line and a handicap stall is open isn't it o.k. to use it? Obviously if a handicap person comes in they would be the next in line for it. It doesn't seem unreasonable to use the stall if it is empty. Am I wrong?

That's a tricky question.

My patience and understanding for "mom use" of the stalls depends on what end of my bathroom adventure I'm on. :) Either I find a bathroom free or else I'm left waiting for a mom and their child, usually it is a toddler or older. And if there's a sink in the bathroom, I'm waiting twice as long.

Waiting to go is never pleasant and sometimes an iffy proposition. I've had an accident or two, especially in cold weather when it took more time to unbundle all my clothing with frozen fingers. So my patience tends to wear thin there, especially if it is two pairs of feet who are clearly old enough to use separate stalls.

I can see a parent's need to take their stroller inside with young baby. In that case, I think I'd rather risk the accident than a baby unattended or waking and screaming on mom's knee. All I'd ask is that the mom be quick about it. Chances are that empty stall will have someone eagerly waiting outside in a few minutes.

All in all, I think I get more annoyed at not being able to use a bathroom than not being able to park close. Getting blocked out of my van is of the same rank but that happens so rarely. Not being able to use the restroom happens multiple times in a day. Course then there are those awful gigantic toilet paper rolls under the grab bars and completely inaccessible unless one reaches up and under from the floor. How disappointing to find a free bathroom but not be able to use any paper.

[bsmcneil]

it's interesting to read this thread as my doctor has several times asked me if i wanted a placard and i've said no because most people would see me, a 23 year old male not in a wheelchair, and assume i was misusing it. otoh, i really do need it. similarly, i won't use a wheelchair at WDW when i go although when i come back i likely won't be able to move for 2-3 days. i dunno how to get past the problems of society assuming people are able-bodied, but i know i haven't yet and likely wont' for some time.

[Cheshire Figment]

it's interesting to read this thread as my doctor has several times asked me if i wanted a placard and i've said no because most people would see me, a 23 year old male not in a wheelchair, and assume i was misusing it. otoh, i really do need it. similarly, i won't use a wheelchair at WDW when i go although when i come back i likely won't be able to move for 2-3 days. i dunno how to get past the problems of society assuming people are able-bodied, but i know i haven't yet and likely wont' for some time.
You have interesting but incorrect assumptions.

When I finally asked my physician to sign for a handicap placard his basic response was "what took you so long to ask". If you need it you need it. Listen to your doctor. Note that you do not have to use it all the time, but it is insurance for when you are having a bad day and/or the closest you can get to your destination is a long way away.

Is there any reason for you to worry or even care what people who don't know you think about you?????!!! And if anyone challanges you a nice, even polite, response is to sweetly say: I will give you this placard free if you will also take my invisible disabilities.

[Nanajo1]

it's interesting to read this thread as my doctor has several times asked me if i wanted a placard and i've said no because most people would see me, a 23 year old male not in a wheelchair, and assume i was misusing it. otoh, i really do need it. similarly, i won't use a wheelchair at WDW when i go although when i come back i likely won't be able to move for 2-3 days. i dunno how to get past the problems of society assuming people are able-bodied, but i know i haven't yet and likely wont' for some time.
As Dr Phil would say " How's that working for you?" I was a bit older when I first needed the H/P parking and it did make me sad that I needed it. But once I used the parking the freedom and relief it brought me I realized how false pride robbed me of some great experiences. Try looking at yourself as a young man doing everything he can to live his life to the fullest. Use whatever you need to achieve your heights.

[bsmcneil]

You have interesting but incorrect assumptions.

I've been told by people that I shouldn't be considered disabled so how exactly is that an assumption? I was saying that I eschewed this so I didn't have to deal with people and their assumptions because I have enough to deal with.

[Cheshire Figment]

most people would see me, a 23 year old male not in a wheelchair, and assume i was misusing it
You seem to be of the opinion that a majority of people would assume you are misusing the tag. If they say anything to you, just sweetly (not necessarily politely) tell them you have an invisible disability and they should check with your doctor before they make rash statements. They are being rude to you and you do not have to (and should not) take it.

[vhoffman]

Here's something that should bring a smile to many of our faces. :sunny:

My sil uses her dead grandmother's handicapped permit with absolutely no guilt. She justifies it by saying "they get all the good places". Well, just a week ago, she parked in a handicapped spot in a grocery store, using Granny's permit. When she came out, her car was wrecked--the entire rear bumper was destroyed, and a lot of other damage, obviously someone had backed right in to her. I don't think whoever did it was for spite, looked to me like just careless driving. Well, she doesn't know who did it, obviously, so she can't claim on their insurance, and she just carries basic liability, no collision or comprehensive, so she doesn't have insurance to pay for the damage. She huffed into the grocery store making a scene and insisting they were partly responsible. The grocery store filled out an incident report, noting she was parked in the handicapped space. Their insurance refuses to pay anything on the claim since she was illegally parked. :banana: :banana: :banana: She's just sol :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: Over $5000 of damage :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Not to mention the $500 ticket the police issued her for illegally parking there (the store called the police at her insistence!)

Of course, she's trying to sue the grocery store, trying to get a lawyer, etc., however, she really doesn't stand a chance and she knows it! But she did get a good parking space! :cool1:

[SueM in MN]

Well, I would say that Karma bit her in the butt.
Thanks for sharing the story.

[Buckimion]

Well, I would say that Karma bit her in the butt.
Thanks for sharing the story.


More like somone else's karma ran over her dogma. :lmao:

[Cheshire Figment]

And I guess the police also confiscated the hang tag so she can't do that again.:rolleyes1 :Pinkbounc :cheer2: :stir:

[kaytieeldr]

I've been told by people that I shouldn't be considered disabled so how exactly is that an assumption? I was saying that I eschewed this so I didn't have to deal with people and their assumptions because I have enough to deal with.
By what people? Medical people or (excuse me, but) busybodies? YOU know what you need, and your physician knows what you need. Cheshire Figment expresses this so much more politely, but frankly it's none of ANYBODY else's business if you need an HP plate/placard, or why.

[Mish]

My DS(7) has a hip condition where if he walks for very long periods of time he is in pain and starts to limp. We were issued a permit. I also get funny looks when we are getting out of the car. We also have a stroller for him to use when we are going to be doing a lot of walking. It is a considered a wheelchair/Stroller but looks more like a stroller and I cant tell you how many looks we get because he looks like nothing is wrong. I wish people could really know what is wrong so they wouldn't judge. Imagine how he feels. He is not supposed to play gym, run, jump all the fun things for a 7 year old. So even though he looks like a healthy young man he has a disability. One thing I have to look forward to is that one day his condition will get better and we wont need the permit anymore. But I will never judge anyone for using a permit.

[heylucy]

subscibing and just wanted to add what happened to me at Wal-Mart the other day.

I have MS and to look at me I look "normal'. I have good days and then I have VERY bad days. Well, this was a bad day for me, DD8 wanted to go and spend a Gift Card she had received from school. When we parked this lady sat right behind my van until we had both gotten out. She thing proceeded to curse me and call me everything under the sun. Was saying things about me "abusing" the handicapped placard that I have. This continued until my DD got so upset that she started crying!! She then asked me why this lady was treating me like this and I very calmly told her that she didn't understand that not everyone's disability could be seen from the naked eye. She then turned to the woman and said... You can have the spot if you really need it but you will also have to help my Mommy out of the store when she can't walk to the new spot. This just tugged at my heart!!!! She knew that I wasn't feeling very good and knew that by the time we were done shopping that I would be wiped out!!


The things we do for our kids!!!

[GroovyWheeler]

It's sad how people don't understand how a person that has a handicapped parking permit, may have a invisible disability that the person who judges them, will not see. My mom has Nueropathy in her legs and ankles, and even though the handicapped parking permit is under my name, people still stare at us, like we don't need to use the handicapped parking spot. My syndrome is very visible to anyone that notices, but the reason why I use a wheelchair, is not. People have stared/glared at me because I look like I'm in my teens, when I'm 25 years old, for "abusing the use of the permit" (even though my mom and I did everything right, to get it for me).

There are times where I use my walker/cane besides my 2 wheelchairs, and so my mom having to park in the handicapped parking space, makes it easier on me, due to the fact of my back problems, and poor balance coordination. Not only that, but my wheelchair van has a side-entry ramp, and needs 8 ft of space, to be deployed, so that I can get out with my power chair.

Samantha

[AlmostMrsH]

MS does not meet the standard of disability required by the ADA, nor does Lupus, facial pain, and on and on. But they may meet local legal standards. Do you know the law under which you are classed as "disabled"?.

It is unfair that some are required to lead lives beset by pain, agony, and illness but, there is a legal standard that defines disability in this country and simply finding a doctor, whether through empathy or ignorance, who will issue a MOBILITY disability parking permit to someone without a MOBILITY-based disability, as defined by the ADA, or local laws, thereby committing fraud, does not mean that someone is legally entitled to use it.

Actually, depending on a person's symptoms, MS and Lupus can meet the ADA's standards. My sister has Lupus, and I have MS (I know, it's a freak show) and we've both got placards. She has one because extreme temperatures (Hot or cold) aggravate her condition. Mine is for my "dizzy" or stiff days, or for the MS fatigue. I can't speak for my sister, but in my case my neurologist suggested the placard to me (I didn't have to coerce anyone). I very rarely use it, because as others have mentioned, it's difficult to face the looks from other people who can't ~see~ anything wrong with me.
I think it's a shame that someone WITH a disability would discriminate against me because I don't fit their personal definition of disability. I would think that, out of everyone, a fellow disabled person would know better.

[SlightlyGoofy]

There are so many different degrees of disability. Until they start labeling the spaces according to degree I do this -

I never use the spaces if there are regular spaces nearby or if I am having a 'good' day. :thumbsup2

I do my best to use the furtherest away handicap spot when I do need it as I am not in a wheelchair etc. :cool1:

I careful examine my conscious regularly to make sure I am not abusing the 'privilege". :love:

I did not ask for the card. My doctor talked me into it. The closing argument was that I could just use it when I needed to. It is easier for me to have the card than for the ambulance to have to come and pick me up. On my really bad days I stay home.

Slightly Goofy, who is only responsible for her own morals and not those of others. :sunny:

[DaisyD]

My mom has a handicap placard in her car. All the MVA asked for was a note from her doctor stating the reason she needs one. She has bad knees and can't walk too far. It has been great for her.

[SueM in MN]

Actually, depending on a person's symptoms, MS and Lupus can meet the ADA's standards. My sister has Lupus, and I have MS (I know, it's a freak show) and we've both got placards.
::yes::
Although people assume that certain conditions/diseases are covered by the ADA, there are no "conditions that meet ADA standards."
My DD has cerebral palsy and she has a handicapped parking permit because her physical needs (which are caused by her cerebral palsy) require accomidation. The ADA is all about needs that require accomidation. Some people with any diagnosis you can name might have needs that require accomidation; someone else with the same diagnosis might not have any needs that require accomidation, so they would not be covered by the ADA.

[MightyMom]

I am sick and tired of finding all the accessible spots filled by people breaking the law. It happens all the time, everywhere I go. I was at the mall the other day and some idiot parked on the loading lines between accessible spots. I had to back out of the spot to load my son into the car.

I started to scribble a nasty note on the back of receipt when I saw parking lot security driving by. I flagged him down and asked him to do something.

He shrugged his shoulders and said the only thing he can do was call the police... but even then the police are hesitant to do anything because it is private property.

It got me thinking..... who is actually enforcing these "stiff" penalties? The answer was clear! NO ONE!

I wrote a letter to all of my city commissioners, the city manager, the city chief of police and the mayor. I asked all of them to do something about this problem.

I asked them to start a "Volunteer Handicap Parking Enforcement Program". Basically, citizen volunteers would be issued a ticket book and write out tickets to people who are in violation of the law. Of course, volunteers would have to attend a training program and be in good standing with the law.

Lots of cities around the country do this sort of thing. I did some research and found it can be very profitable for a city or county. In one Texas county 1000 tickets were written in one calendar year. At $250 for each fine the city stood to gain $250,000 in one year! I personally think this money should go towards bettering city programs for people with disabilities.

Last week I got a phone call from a city commissioner who is eager to help me get this program underway. And today, the Mayors office called. He is talking to the chief of police to find out what we can do.

If anyone is interested, I can post the letter I wrote on this forum. You're welcome to use it as a template in your own battle.

The thing is, we can sit in this forum and complain..... or we can get up and take action. It only takes one person to make big changes! :cheer2:

[SueM in MN]

I wrote a letter to all of my city commissioners, the city manager, the city chief of police and the mayor. I asked all of them to do something about this problem.

I asked them to start a "Volunteer Handicap Parking Enforcement Program". Last week I got a phone call from a city commissioner who is eager to help me get this program underway. And today, the Mayors office called. He is talking to the chief of police to find out what we can do...................

If anyone is interested, I can post the letter I wrote on this forum. You're welcome to use it as a template in your own battle.

The thing is, we can sit in this forum and complain..... or we can get up and take action. It only takes one person to make big changes! :cheer2:
:thumbsup2

[pugdog]

The only problem with doing it just by your city would be that when you go to the mall a couple of cities over that you wouldn't be able to do anything. What it needs to be is a state wide ticket writing thing. that way you could write it anytime anywhere.

[MightyMom]

The only problem with doing it just by your city would be that when you go to the mall a couple of cities over that you wouldn't be able to do anything. What it needs to be is a state wide ticket writing thing. that way you could write it anytime anywhere.

Petitioning the city has been hard enough! I'm not sure how I would do at a state level. But it's a great idea. Perhaps I should contact the county sheriff's office..... hmmmmm.... you gave me something to think about.

[mjmcca]

Something on this thread has bothered me. One poster said that MS was not covered by ADA. They obviously don't know many if any MS patients or much about MS. It is a progressive neurological disease In some people it effects their sight. In others balance. THey tend to tire easily. Most eventually end up in W/C or bed bound. Some progresss to this stage quickly and others gradually over years.



The same poster also spoke of Lupus not being eligable for ADA coverage. Again I dont thinkt hey know much about that disease either since it is very debilitating .


Here are some resources
http://www.uklupus.co.uk/lsymp.html (Lupus)


http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/mssymptoms.html (MS)

[pugdog]

Petitioning the city has been hard enough! I'm not sure how I would do at a state level. But it's a great idea. Perhaps I should contact the county sheriff's office..... hmmmmm.... you gave me something to think about.
County level might be very doable. And then it would be easier to actually make a dent in the violaters

[SueM in MN]

Something on this thread has bothered me. One poster said that MS was not covered by ADA. They obviously don't know many if any MS patients or much about MS. It is a progressive neurological disease In some people it effects their sight. In others balance. THey tend to tire easily. Most eventually end up in W/C or bed bound. Some progresss to this stage quickly and others gradually over years.



The same poster also spoke of Lupus not being eligable for ADA coverage. Again I dont thinkt hey know much about that disease either since it is very debilitating .


Here are some resources
http://www.uklupus.co.uk/lsymp.html (Lupus)


http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/mssymptoms.html (MS)
Well, that poster was right in a way.
The ADA doesn't actually cover Lupus, MS, cerebral palsy (which is my DD's main diagnosis), blindness, autism or diabetes. In fact, the ADA doesn't cover ANY conditions or diseases at all (except for HIV/AIDS because at the time the ADA was drafted, people were getting fired for no other reason than that they had HIV or AIDS).
What it does cover is individual with a disability who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits a "major life activity", or has a record that sort of an impairment, or is regarded as having such an impairment.
"Major life activities" include functions such as caring for oneself, performing manual tasks, walking, seeing, hearing, speaking, breathing, learning, and working.

There are certain conditions listed as examples of conditions that might cause physical or mental impairment. Some of the listed examples include (I added the bold):

Examples of physical or mental impairments include, but are not limited to, such contagious and noncontagious diseases and conditions as orthopedic, visual, speech, and hearing impairments; cerebral palsy, epilepsy, muscular dystrophy, multiple sclerosis, cancer, heart disease, diabetes, mental retardation, emotional illness, specific learning disabilities, HIV disease (whether symptomatic or asymptomatic), tuberculosis, drug addiction, and alcoholism. Homosexuality and bisexuality are not physical or mental impairments under the ADA.

They didn't have a long list of conditions because they didn't want to miss listing something and have it not be covered.
And, they also didn't want to just make someone covered because they have a specific diagnosis.

The way the law is written, it's not enough just to have a diagnosis of one of those "physical or mental impairments." The law says An "individual with a disability" is a person who --
Has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits a "major life activity", or

Has a record of such an impairment, or

Is regarded as having such an impairment.
So, you have to have a "physical or mental impairment" and have a/some limitations.
It would be possible for someone who has a diagnosis of cerebral palsy, or lupus, or MS to NOT be covered by the ADA because their condition is not interfering with their ability to do things like walk, talk, eat, etc.
(In other words, an "impairment", such as MS, is only a "disability" under the ADA if it substantially limits one or more major life activities.)

It's possible that at some time in the future they might be covered (i.e. their condition may cause a disability) especially with things like MS or Muscular Dystrophy, which progress with time, but just having a diagnosis doesn't necessarily mean there is any disability.
Here's a link to a page of the ADA Title II highlights. (http://www.ada.gov/t2hlt95.htm)
And another link to an article in Ability Magazine about the ADA. (http://abilitymagazine.com/walker_ada.html)

[AlmostMrsH]

Well, that poster was right in a way.
The ADA doesn't actually cover Lupus, MS, cerebral palsy (which is my DD's main diagnosis), blindness, autism or diabetes. In fact, the ADA doesn't cover ANY conditions or diseases at all (except for HIV/AIDS because at the time the ADA was drafted, people were getting fired for no other reason than that they had HIV or AIDS).
What it does cover is individual with a disability who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits a "major life activity", or has a record that sort of an impairment, or is regarded as having such an impairment.
"Major life activities" include functions such as caring for oneself, performing manual tasks, walking, seeing, hearing, speaking, breathing, learning, and working.

There are certain conditions listed as examples of conditions that might cause physical or mental impairment. Some of the listed examples include (I added the bold):


Quote:
Examples of physical or mental impairments include, but are not limited to, such contagious and noncontagious diseases and conditions as orthopedic, visual, speech, and hearing impairments; cerebral palsy, epilepsy, muscular dystrophy, multiple sclerosis, cancer, heart disease, diabetes, mental retardation, emotional illness, specific learning disabilities, HIV disease (whether symptomatic or asymptomatic), tuberculosis, drug addiction, and alcoholism. Homosexuality and bisexuality are not physical or mental impairments under the ADA.



They didn't have a long list of conditions because they didn't want to miss listing something and have it not be covered.
And, they also didn't want to just make someone covered because they have a specific diagnosis.

The way the law is written, it's not enough just to have a diagnosis of one of those "physical or mental impairments." The law says
Quote:
An "individual with a disability" is a person who --
Has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits a "major life activity", or

Has a record of such an impairment, or

Is regarded as having such an impairment.


So, you have to have a "physical or mental impairment" and have a/some limitations.
It would be possible for someone who has a diagnosis of cerebral palsy, or lupus, or MS to NOT be covered by the ADA because their condition is not interfering with their ability to do things like walk, talk, eat, etc.
(In other words, an "impairment", such as MS, is only a "disability" under the ADA if it substantially limits one or more major life activities.)

It's possible that at some time in the future they might be covered (i.e. their condition may cause a disability) especially with things like MS or Muscular Dystrophy, which progress with time, but just having a diagnosis doesn't necessarily mean there is any disability.
Here's a link to a page of the ADA Title II highlights.
And another link to an article in Ability Magazine about the ADA.

I think we may be arguing semantics here, but the point that I (and others) are trying to make (especially in light of that other post) is that while having MS or Lupus does not automatically qualify you as disabled under the ADA, it doesn't immediately disqualify you either. As has already been mentioned, the protection the ADA offers are dependant on one's symptoms, NOT their diagnosis.
And the issue with autoimmune diseases (I use that example because I know a fair ammount about them) is that they are different for everyone, and can change very rapidly. For example, I used to work a summer camp - I never really liked the heat, but I could deal with it. No, I can barely make it through a grocery trip without becoming overheated and feeling ill. I have good days (I wake up and I'm not dizzy, nauseated, or weak ) and the next day I can't get out of bed. In six months, I've gone from being a star employee to a liability, and I'd say that that has an impact on at least one of my "major life activities".
So, there are many days where I will avoid using my placard because I either feel too good, or don't want to deal with the stares/comments. But there are also days that I just can't deal with that extra walk, when my legs are too heavy to move anyway. I don't abuse the system, as I aquired it though the legal means and I've used it a handful of times, and I'm not going to feel guilty about using it when I have to.

[SueM in MN]

that while having MS or Lupus does not automatically qualify you as disabled under the ADA, it doesn't immediately disqualify you either. As has already been mentioned, the protection the ADA offers are dependant on one's symptoms, NOT their diagnosis.
That was the point I was trying to make.
Yes, it is semantics, but a lot of people believe there is some "list" of "covered diseases/conditiions" and that if your condition is on that list, you are automatically covered by the ADA. And, if it's not, you aren't covered at all.
Outside of this thread, I have seen people say just that. I wanted to clarify that point.

And, to use your example of an auto-immune disease (or MS, which someone I know well has), that person will have good and bad days because of the nature of their disease. If they once had a "flare" that made them "fit" the definition in the ADA law, they don't lose protection just because they are having a good day.

[mjmcca]

That was the point I was trying to make.
Yes, it is semantics, but a lot of people believe there is some "list" of "covered diseases/conditiions" and that if your condition is on that list, you are automatically covered by the ADA. And, if it's not, you aren't covered at all.
Outside of this thread, I have seen people say just that. I wanted to clarify that point.

And, to use your example of an auto-immune disease (or MS, which someone I know well has), that person will have good and bad days because of the nature of their disease. If they once had a "flare" that made them "fit" the definition in the ADA law, they don't lose protection just because they are having a good day.
I know that it depends on your disability. I unfortunately see a lot of people who are or will be permanantly disabled. I work on a neurology unit, Between people who have strokes and people with MS or ALS, I see too many people who are curently or will eventually be covered by the ADA . I guess i just felt the need to educatew people about MS it is not very well understood by the public.

[SueM in MN]

I know that it depends on your disability. I unfortunately see a lot of people who are or will be permanantly disabled. I work on a neurology unit, Between people who have strokes and people with MS or ALS, I see too many people who are curently or will eventually be covered by the ADA . I guess i just felt the need to educatew people about MS it is not very well understood by the public.
:grouphug:
I think we are all trying to say the same thing.
The person I know with MS looks fine right now and no one would know he has MS just from looking at him. But, he had a flare a few years ago when he could not even lift a pencil. So (even though he looks good right now), he is covered under the ADA because he has been "disabled enough" to fit under it.