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MrsKreamer
04-21-2006, 08:35 PM
I am so glad to hear this. We didn't see a dime from FEMA and knew of people double dipping...glad they are finally going to catch up with these people.

JACKSON, Miss. - Thousands of Gulf Coast residents have been told they must repay millions of dollars in federal Hurricane Katrina benefits that were excessive or, in some cases, fraudulent. In Mississippi alone, the
Federal Emergency Management Agency said it is seeking $4.7 million from 2,044 people, telling them in a form letter that they have four months to repay or set up a payment plan.

Some storm victims got duplicate or extra benefits because of FEMA errors, FEMA spokesman Eugene Brezany said, and others might have received benefits for expenses that later were reimbursed by insurance settlements.

Some others benefited "by intentional misrepresentation" or the mistaken belief that secondary residences qualified for payments, he said.

More people could get repayment notices as more applications are reviewed, Brezany said. Recipients could have received $2,000 to $26,200.

People who get the form letter have 30 days to respond. If they don't meet the four-month deadline, the U.S. Treasury will attempt to collect the money, Brezany said.

James McIntyre, FEMA spokesman for Louisiana, could not immediately provide figures for his state or others hit by Katrina. Aaron Walker, the agency's chief spokesman, said in an e-mail he also could not immediately respond.

The form letter sent to the aid recipients said that they could appeal the charges. Even so, it said, "FEMA strongly encourages" them to pay the debt or set up a repayment plan to avoid being charged penalties or interest in case the appeal fails.

Federal auditors have faulted FEMA for much of the benefit abuse after last fall's hurricanes, citing an inadequate accounting system. The federal
Government Accountability Office has said thousands of inappropriate payments were made because people could repeatedly apply for and collect benefits.

In February, audits by the
General Accounting Office and the Department of
Homeland Security found that as many as 900,000 of the 2.5 million applicants who received aid under FEMA's emergency cash assistance program which included $2,000 debit cards given to evacuees were based on duplicate or invalid
Social Security numbers, or false addresses and names.

Also in February, the Justice Department said federal prosecutors charged 212 people with fraud, theft and other counts in scams related to Gulf Coast hurricanes.

___

Associated Press Writer Brett Martel in New Orleans contributed to this report.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060422/ap_on_re_us/katrina_repayments)

DVC Sadie
04-21-2006, 08:57 PM
:thumbsup2 I too am glad that FEMA is collecting from those who tried to work the system.

magiccouple2004
04-21-2006, 09:22 PM
i am also happy that fema wants to get all their money back all those people that played the government and stole money oughta pay back

magicmirror
04-22-2006, 12:38 AM
It disgusts me that something like this happens, and people try to take advantage of a terrible situation that way. So many people have lost so much. In the face of this, to still have such dishonest people trying to get what they do not deserve, thus robbing innocent victims of what they do deserve, makes me sick. If it weren't for freeloaders this world would be a better place. Get 'em Fema!!!

ducklite
04-22-2006, 07:07 AM
I just saw this today, and was going to post it. I'm glad that the government is going to crack down on people who double dipped or took payments for second homes and such.

IMHO if you've got enough money to fund a second home, you should also have enough money to take cover uninsured losses. (I say that as someone who used to own two homes, and actually probably will again within the next year or two.)

A lot of things come down to personal responsibility, and unfortunately, we saw a lot of people who obviously have none in the wake of last years hurricanes.

I'm not saying that no one should have gotten help, but there comes a point in time where people must take care of their own, rather than looking for handouts.

Our own MrsKreamer is a good example--she and her husband went to where they knew they could find work for as long as it took to get back on their feet, and worked towards the objective of getting back "home." They didn't just sit around in a hotel or shelter having a pity party for themselves, taking handouts from the government.

Anne

MrsKreamer
04-22-2006, 08:31 AM
Aww thanks Anne!

Keli
04-22-2006, 09:50 AM
I too, am glad FEMA is going after the abusers.

I think that when there is widespread fraud going on then subsequent victems of later catastrophies suffer because there is less willingness to give money/help to them because we all remember what happened last time.

One of the things I love about America is that we are so generous. I want us to continue giving to those hurting and in need.

LuvDuke
04-22-2006, 10:20 AM
I am so glad to hear this. We didn't see a dime from FEMA and knew of people double dipping...glad they are finally going to catch up with these people.



Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060422/ap_on_re_us/katrina_repayments)

Oh yeah, they're catching up all right. Sooner or later, FEMA will catch up to the $22,000,000 they paid 9000 crooks for fraudulant Miami/Dade wind damage claims when Miami/Dade didn't have any wind damage ............ from the 2004 hurricane season.

Gooood luck!

taeja71
04-23-2006, 01:31 PM
I just saw this today, and was going to post it. I'm glad that the government is going to crack down on people who double dipped or took payments for second homes and such.

IMHO if you've got enough money to fund a second home, you should also have enough money to take cover uninsured losses. (I say that as someone who used to own two homes, and actually probably will again within the next year or two.)

A lot of things come down to personal responsibility, and unfortunately, we saw a lot of people who obviously have none in the wake of last years hurricanes.

I'm not saying that no one should have gotten help, but there comes a point in time where people must take care of their own, rather than looking for handouts.

Our own MrsKreamer is a good example--she and her husband went to where they knew they could find work for as long as it took to get back on their feet, and worked towards the objective of getting back "home." They didn't just sit around in a hotel or shelter having a pity party for themselves, taking handouts from the government.

Anne

Well said! No moochers esp. the double dipers!

wishfulthinkin
05-15-2006, 02:57 PM
I find it interesting that the people in Florida are so quick to pass judgement on the people of Mississippi seeing how Florida has their own share of FEMA thieves. I'm from Gulfport, MS and know first hand how my people are suffering because I deal with it on my job and volunteer work. I say shame on you Florida for being so greedy and wanting us to do without so that you can have more. I bet if we spent our FEMA :rolleyes2 money on your beaches or Disney-whatever you wouldn't mind...eh?

LuvDuke
05-15-2006, 04:33 PM
*****

disneymom3
05-15-2006, 05:23 PM
I find it interesting that the people in Florida are so quick to pass judgement on the people of Mississippi seeing how Florida has their own share of FEMA thieves. I'm from Gulfport, MS and know first hand how my people are suffering because I deal with it on my job and volunteer work. I say shame on you Florida for being so greedy and wanting us to do without so that you can have more. I bet if we spent our FEMA :rolleyes2 money on your beaches or Disney-whatever you wouldn't mind...eh?


I guess I don't get your point. No one here is saying that people should not be getting help who actually need and deserve it. The people who abuse the system are the ones who are going to be gone after to get the money they got through fraudulent means back. If FEMA gets the money back they will then be able to help the people who DO need it. No one wants those who are suffering to do without--just the opposite. We want the people who need it to get it, not the people who are engaging in fraud.

wishfulthinkin
05-15-2006, 07:40 PM
whatever...I guess what I'm trying to say is...we'll take care of ours and you take care of yours and mind your own business because we pay taxes too

disneymom3
05-15-2006, 08:49 PM
That is not a very nice attitude. And for the record FEMA stands for Federal, so there is no ours and yours. For that matter, I am from MN so technically really don't have a "mine" to take care of, but I do have concern for all those affected by this.

Keli
05-15-2006, 09:18 PM
whatever...I guess what I'm trying to say is...we'll take care of ours and you take care of yours and mind your own business because we pay taxes too


If you are taking care of 'yours' then why am I helping pay for it up here in KY? It's the federal gov't. Don't you understand that means the whole country is supporting the relief effort? Not that I mind, actually I'm glad we step in and help but for heaven's sake, did you think all the funds going to Miss. victems were coming only from Miss. taxpayers?

wishfulthinkin
05-15-2006, 10:41 PM
have any of you been here and seen the devastation? have you listened to the elderly cry because they have lost everything they worked a lifetime for? most of the federal money is earmarked for roads and bridges and military use. only a small percentage is actually going to the people like a tiny bandaid on a very large wound. all these people want is to go back in time before Aug. 29 and there's not enough money in the whole world to do that. you are the ones who don't get it. the people of the Mississippi coast are a proud people and it took an act of courage and desperation to accept help and that was only after we were so overwhelmed with our loss. I know I'm just wasting my time trying to explain. we don't want money...we want our quiet peaceful lives back and that is not going to happen for many many years

RitaZ.
05-16-2006, 06:52 AM
It's about time! I soooo tired of people trying to benefit financially whenever a hurricane is in our vicinity, even when they haven't sustained any losses. :sad2: Yes, there are many people that have genuine claims and losses, but there also many that are taking advantage of the situation for their personal gain.

I know people that bought generators after Wilma, filed a claim with FEMA for reimbursement, then returned the unused generator to Home Depot. They doubled their money! :sad2: One family in particular isn't anywhere near needing financial assistance, but as the wife said, "It's about time I get something back from the government." :sad2: :sad2:

dolphin01
05-16-2006, 06:54 AM
:thumbsup2 I too am glad that FEMA is collecting from those who tried to work the system.amen to that!! :thumbsup2

arminnie
05-16-2006, 12:51 PM
have any of you been here and seen the devastation? have you listened to the elderly cry because they have lost everything they worked a lifetime for?
Yes - I have seen the devastation first hand - multiple times in Lakeview, Lower 9th Ward, East New Orleans, Gulfport and Biloxi. It is hideous beyond belief - but that still does not give anyone the right to lie and scam to get more money.

Some of the people who are committing fraud didn't live in the area or didn't have any damage. That to me is a terrible crime.


A lot of things come down to personal responsibility, and unfortunately, we saw a lot of people who obviously have none in the wake of last years hurricanes.

I'm not saying that no one should have gotten help, but there comes a point in time where people must take care of their own, rather than looking for handouts.

I personally did not take any FEMA or other money because I did not need it. I don't begrudge the ones who need and deserve the money, but I have utter contempt for those trying to make an illegal buck off of others misfortunes.

Able people who refuse to work 9 months later and are demanding to be supported are truly lowlifes.

My sister had an evacuee with her for two months. Yes she got FEMA and Red Cross money, but she also got a job within 2 days of arrival.

mickeyfan2
05-16-2006, 02:39 PM
whatever...I guess what I'm trying to say is...we'll take care of ours and you take care of yours and mind your own business because we pay taxes too
So if it is your business why is the Federal Govt sending money. I pay taxes so I do have a say and a right of accountablity.

ducklite
05-16-2006, 03:48 PM
have any of you been here and seen the devastation? have you listened to the elderly cry because they have lost everything they worked a lifetime for? most of the federal money is earmarked for roads and bridges and military use. only a small percentage is actually going to the people like a tiny bandaid on a very large wound. all these people want is to go back in time before Aug. 29 and there's not enough money in the whole world to do that.

Exactly. People who were properly insured have begun rebuilding their lives. People who weren't, well, why are they blaming anyone but themselves?

No amount of money can replace personal momento's. If that's what they are grieving over, they need to move on. Not sure why tax money should pay for anyone's personal stuff to be replaced. It's for infrastructure, public schools and buildings.

While I empathize with people who have lost everything (I have friends who did, but they had adequate insurance and are rebuilding) I don't understand why anyone feels that it's the responsibility of the rest of the country to take care of them. Doens't anyone believe in PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY anymore?

Anne

disneymom3
05-16-2006, 05:19 PM
Sadly Anne, far too few people do believe in personal responsibility.

You know, what? I don't even mind tax money going to help those who are in need. Someday, I may be walking in their shoes. But the shoes I will NEVER walk in are those of people who are scamming the government and other organizations trying to get what they do not deserve to receive. All that does is take it away from those who do truly need it. I don't know how that point could be more clear and how anyone in good conscience could argue with that.

DVC Sadie
05-21-2006, 08:39 PM
There are a lot of people who did have insurance but the insurance companies are not paying. If a family had flood insurance the maximum amount you receive is 250,000. All the years our family has paid for insurance not only for our house plus contents we were basically told "tough luck". We also had different riders from the insurance companies to include things like jewelry and antiques. Nothing was covered according to insurance since it was all flood damage.

The prices here have tripled for labor and some materials. It will take a long time for the coast to recover.

The hardest thing for a lot of families to deal with is the mental anguish of losing so much. While I feel blessed and so grateful to be able to rebuild someday, somehow I am peeved that the insurance companies got to walk away without paying a dime and basically left both the homeowners and the federal government (you the taxpayers) holding the bag.

I just wanted to explain how the insurance is working (or not working) down here. Thanks to all of you taxpayers and to the generous donations (both of money and time) we will be back.

Thanks for listening.

LuvDuke
05-21-2006, 09:21 PM
There are a lot of people who did have insurance but the insurance companies are not paying. If a family had flood insurance the maximum amount you receive is 250,000. All the years our family has paid for insurance not only for our house plus contents we were basically told "tough luck". We also had different riders from the insurance companies to include things like jewelry and antiques. Nothing was covered according to insurance since it was all flood damage.

The prices here have tripled for labor and some materials. It will take a long time for the coast to recover.

The hardest thing for a lot of families to deal with is the mental anguish of losing so much. While I feel blessed and so grateful to be able to rebuild someday, somehow I am peeved that the insurance companies got to walk away without paying a dime and basically left both the homeowners and the federal government (you the taxpayers) holding the bag.

I just wanted to explain how the insurance is working (or not working) down here. Thanks to all of you taxpayers and to the generous donations (both of money and time) we will be back.

Thanks for listening.

I went through Hurricane Charley so I know what exactly what you're talking about.

Unfortunately, there are too many here who don't want to hear it because it interferes with their pontification agenda about "personal responsibility". Nevermind the fact that kicking somebody when they're down reflects their lack of common decency. It must make them feel good to look down their nose at those who don't quite meet their standards of personal responsibililty.

And above all, nevermind the fact that many people did exactly what they were supposed to do and got screwed anyway.

But they never let that fact interfere with their own personal soap box. Karma, however, bites us all in the *** eventually. Even the ones who preach the loudest about personal responsibility.

Good luck to you.

ducklite
06-06-2006, 05:34 AM
I went through Hurricane Charley so I know what exactly what you're talking about.

Unfortunately, there are too many here who don't want to hear it because it interferes with their pontification agenda about "personal responsibility". Nevermind the fact that kicking somebody when they're down reflects their lack of common decency. It must make them feel good to look down their nose at those who don't quite meet their standards of personal responsibililty.

And above all, nevermind the fact that many people did exactly what they were supposed to do and got screwed anyway.

But they never let that fact interfere with their own personal soap box. Karma, however, bites us all in the *** eventually. Even the ones who preach the loudest about personal responsibility.

Good luck to you.

You are so wrong. I have no problems helping out those who are truly down. But I also feel that people need to be responsible for themselves. I've got $100,000 in temporary living expenses coverage on my insurance. That would pay for basic furnishings and four years rent on a place while mine was being rebuilt. And if you can't rebuild in that time frame, you're doing something wrong.

I helped out several people who were HELPING themselves after hurricanes the past couple years. I gave furniture and household goods to a couple different families who had reloacted to this area where they had found employment, lent my generator to another family who lost their power after Jeanne, and made arrangements with a parish priest in Vero Beach to have my husband go to board up windows and do some minor repairs for some seniors who had repairable damage after Jeanne.

What I've got a problem with is those who have underinsured, not bought flood when they live in a flood plain, or just given up and are waiting for someone to fix things for them. Since when is it the government or the publics responsibility to make things right for private citizen's? If you own a home, you should have insurance. It's the cost of owning a home. I've got a $10,000 hurricane deductible, and I sure as heck have the savings to cover it should I need to. That's just common sense.

If your home was damaged by a hurricane, why does that become the problem of anyone but you and your insurance company? If you didn't have adequate insurance or savings, whose fault is that?

For every one person still wailing about Hurricane Charley, 1000 people have made their repairs (out of pocket if need be--that was the case of a co-worker who only two weeks ago got her check from her insurance!) and gotten on with their lives. What does that say to you?

If I were in a situation where my insurance wouldn't pay for repairs, I'd take money from my savings to get it done, and fight with them later--bringing in my brother and father-in-law from out of state to do the work with DH if I was unable to get a contractor (which is legal without them having a license if you aren't paying them). I wouldn't just hang around waiting for FEMA to give me a handout.

The entire point of this thread to begin with is FEMA requiring those who shouldn't have gotten a payment to begin with to give it back. That money belongs to the taxpayers of the USA. And God only knows we pay enough taxes as it is to not want to be riupped off by someone who got a payment they weren't entitled to from the beginning.

Anne

annegal
06-06-2006, 06:46 AM
That would pay for basic furnishings and four years rent on a place while mine was being rebuilt. And if you can't rebuild in that time frame, you're doing something wrong.


Anne

It took 10 years for Florida to rebuild the area devestated by Hurricane Andrew. The devestation to Louisiana and Mississippi is far worse.The problem is not enough workers to do the work.

ducklite
06-06-2006, 08:22 AM
It took 10 years for Florida to rebuild the area devestated by Hurricane Andrew. The devestation to Louisiana and Mississippi is far worse.The problem is not enough workers to do the work.

And like I said, I'd bring in my own if I had to. In all honesty, I could probably go ten years with $100K if I was very careful. Four years would be renting a house similar to what I live in now.

The point is that people need to be properly insured and have adequate savings to take care of themselves in the case of a disaster, not rely on the government to 100% take care of them. For some people getting $1000 from FEMA was enough to give them the funds to relocate to an area that they could find employment or whatever. But for too many it was nothing mroe than meals in restaurants while FEMA paid for their hotel rooms and they spent their days in a pity party rather than finding work.

There were still three fmilies living in hotels in the Orlando area as of a few months back. There is no excuse for not working in this area, jobs are plentiful. It might not be what they want to do--but sometimes you don't always get to do what you want to do in life.

And there were plenty of people back in the areas hit by Andrew within a year or so. Most people who WANTED to be back there were able to be back there within three years or less.

Anne

LuvDuke
06-06-2006, 09:56 AM
You are so wrong. I have no problems helping out those who are truly down. But I also feel that people need to be responsible for themselves. I've got $100,000 in temporary living expenses coverage on my insurance. That would pay for basic furnishings and four years rent on a place while mine was being rebuilt. And if you can't rebuild in that time frame, you're doing something wrong.

I helped out several people who were HELPING themselves after hurricanes the past couple years. I gave furniture and household goods to a couple different families who had reloacted to this area where they had found employment, lent my generator to another family who lost their power after Jeanne, and made arrangements with a parish priest in Vero Beach to have my husband go to board up windows and do some minor repairs for some seniors who had repairable damage after Jeanne.

What I've got a problem with is those who have underinsured, not bought flood when they live in a flood plain, or just given up and are waiting for someone to fix things for them. Since when is it the government or the publics responsibility to make things right for private citizen's? If you own a home, you should have insurance. It's the cost of owning a home. I've got a $10,000 hurricane deductible, and I sure as heck have the savings to cover it should I need to. That's just common sense.

If your home was damaged by a hurricane, why does that become the problem of anyone but you and your insurance company? If you didn't have adequate insurance or savings, whose fault is that?

For every one person still wailing about Hurricane Charley, 1000 people have made their repairs (out of pocket if need be--that was the case of a co-worker who only two weeks ago got her check from her insurance!) and gotten on with their lives. What does that say to you?

If I were in a situation where my insurance wouldn't pay for repairs, I'd take money from my savings to get it done, and fight with them later--bringing in my brother and father-in-law from out of state to do the work with DH if I was unable to get a contractor (which is legal without them having a license if you aren't paying them). I wouldn't just hang around waiting for FEMA to give me a handout.

The entire point of this thread to begin with is FEMA requiring those who shouldn't have gotten a payment to begin with to give it back. That money belongs to the taxpayers of the USA. And God only knows we pay enough taxes as it is to not want to be riupped off by someone who got a payment they weren't entitled to from the beginning.

Anne

Did you dust off the soapbox before you got on it ........... again?

Did you shine your shoes before you kicked people while they're down .............. again?

I'm wrong? No, and this exchange speaks for itself ............. again.

ducklite
06-06-2006, 10:32 AM
Did you dust off the soapbox before you got on it ........... again?

Did you shine your shoes before you kicked people while they're down .............. again?

I'm wrong? No, and this exchange speaks for itself ............. again.

What specifically do you have a problem with? Do you feel that FEMA should give you the cash to fix your house? Why?

Why would anyone feel that they are OWED anything?

Why would you not have adequate insurance or savings to cover repairs to your home? Why would you expect someone else to cover act of God damage to your home other than your insurance?

The only soapbox I'm on is that it seems that there are a lot of people who think they are owed something by the rest of the country--or FEMA, but who do you think pays for that? Heck, I'm paying for the homeowners of people in Florida because I got a mandatory surcharge on my homeowners to bail out Citizen's, rather than them surcharging their own insureds. Why on earth should I be paying for someone else's home owners insurance? We're not taking indigent people who are already living in poverty who my taxes (which is what the surcharge is--a tax) are paying for their foodstamps. We're talking homeowners who if they can't afford to own their home without welfare, should move to a home they can afford. And rich people who own mansions on Fishers Island who are also paying below market rates for their homeowners because the rest of the state is getting taxed to subsidize their estates.

Anne

annegal
06-06-2006, 01:14 PM
And like I said, I'd bring in my own if I had to. In all honesty, I could probably go ten years with $100K if I was very careful.

Anne

Do you really think the poor people of southwest LA-Cameron etc who lived in trailers and simple wood homes had $100k living allowance?

Do you honestly think most people have the wherewithal to rebuild their homes? :confused3

LuvDuke
06-06-2006, 02:17 PM
What specifically do you have a problem with? Do you feel that FEMA should give you the cash to fix your house? Why?

Why would anyone feel that they are OWED anything?

Why would you not have adequate insurance or savings to cover repairs to your home? Why would you expect someone else to cover act of God damage to your home other than your insurance?

The only soapbox I'm on is that it seems that there are a lot of people who think they are owed something by the rest of the country--or FEMA, but who do you think pays for that? Heck, I'm paying for the homeowners of people in Florida because I got a mandatory surcharge on my homeowners to bail out Citizen's, rather than them surcharging their own insureds. Why on earth should I be paying for someone else's home owners insurance? We're not taking indigent people who are already living in poverty who my taxes (which is what the surcharge is--a tax) are paying for their foodstamps. We're talking homeowners who if they can't afford to own their home without welfare, should move to a home they can afford. And rich people who own mansions on Fishers Island who are also paying below market rates for their homeowners because the rest of the state is getting taxed to subsidize their estates.

Anne

I specifically have a problem with:

1) People who use others suffering as a jumping off point to jump onto the soap box and peddle their "personal responsibililty" spiel

2) People who are nowhere near the situation but "know" exactly what someone else did as to insurance, supplies, etc. and use that "knowledge" to jump on their own personal soap box

3) I especially have a problem with people who don't have enough decency and generosity of spirit to understand that throwing salt into a suffering person's wounds, simply to score their own personal agenda points, is wrong.

ducklite
06-06-2006, 03:22 PM
I specifically have a problem with:

1) People who use others suffering as a jumping off point to jump onto the soap box and peddle their "personal responsibililty" spiel

2) People who are nowhere near the situation but "know" exactly what someone else did as to insurance, supplies, etc. and use that "knowledge" to jump on their own personal soap box

3) I especially have a problem with people who don't have enough decency and generosity of spirit to understand that throwing salt into a suffering person's wounds, simply to score their own personal agenda points, is wrong.

I speak the truth. Many people took money that they shouldn't have. Many people are benefitting from "Florida's Welfare for Homeowners" by not paying market rates for their homeowners insurance, and often putting the cost of their insurance on the backs of those who can even less afford to pay.

Like I said, there are some people who needed a quick hand up and then immediately became self-suffucuent. But there are so many more who do nothing more than whine and complain, and do nothing to better their situation. Or those who continue to live in a place where they KNOW that they are risking serious property damage, and expecting a taxpayer bailout every time.

You continue to bash me, yet you refuse to answer my questions. I can put a logical argument behind each of my assertations. You make assertations and refuse to abck them up.

My "soapbox" is that if you put yourself in a situation, ANY situation, take the consequences of your actions and deal with them. That goes for anything from living in a flood zone to skipping geometry class, to buying a gas guzzler car.

Anne

ducklite
06-06-2006, 03:35 PM
Do you really think the poor people of southwest LA-Cameron etc who lived in trailers and simple wood homes had $100k living allowance?

Do you honestly think most people have the wherewithal to rebuild their homes? :confused3

FEMA should not rebuild homes. That's not what tax dollars are supposed to do. If it's the case that they are getting homes rebuilt with tax dollars, than if I ever have storm damage, I expect that they will rebuild mine as well. What makes one person more deserving than another?

If they had homeowners insurance they would have gotten some living expenses and money to rebuild or relocate. If they were so indigent that they didn't have insurance, they probably got a FEMA payment, and hopefully used it in a constructive manner.

If they don't have the "wherewithal," to rebuild, then what are they going to do? Live on the public dole for the remainder of their lives? That's not an acceptable solution for anyone concerned.

Anne

wishfulthinkin
06-06-2006, 08:33 PM
when I read the most recent reply to my post I wanted to be mean and ugly but then I realized that I have met so many wonderful people from the state of Florida who are here helping us so I can't blame the whole state on a few that are here on this board. FEMA has found that there was only one percent of the money to be returned and most of that was from their own errors. this includes the most recent debris removal which they have found to be untrue and are paying the full amount. whether any of you like it or not a portion of our tax dollars go to disaster relief regardless of where it occurs in this great nation that includes all of us including Florida. I've always given to charities that help out the state of Florida and all your MANY hurricanes. of course I know you can't help what nature brings your way and that is the reason I will continue to give. as of Mississippi...we will be okay...no matter what

MrsKreamer
06-06-2006, 10:14 PM
3) I especially have a problem with people who don't have enough decency and generosity of spirit to understand that throwing salt into a suffering person's wounds, simply to score their own personal agenda points, is wrong.I have to say something about this. You have no knowledge about Anne's generosity. When DH and I moved to Fl to find work she funrnished our apartment. I was amazed by how selflessly she gave. If it weren't for her we would have been eating on the floor, and sleeping on an air matress.

Besides she makes a great point. I am from new orleans and was ashamed to see so many from here living in hotels for months, not finding jobs in areas that had them. Dh and I decided early on after Katrina that we had to provide for our family, so we did what we had to do....and were very blessed that those here on the Dis were there to help, but we also found work and a place to live by October. We relocated 700+ miles away. We provided for our family until we were able to return home. We did it all without a dime from FEMA.

wishfulthinkin
06-07-2006, 06:03 AM
I would like to invite the country to buy a map of the United States and find New Orleans. Please notice that it is in the state of Louisiana not Mississippi. I did not know of the recovery in NO. The Mississippi gulf coast is my own tiny piece of paradise and I will spend my lifetime to see it recover. When I'm not working I'm helping. I've not drawn any unemployment nor have i recieved assistance from FEMA. We have all become advocates of recovery and will continue as long as it takes and I won't allow this state to be put down without defending it.

ducklite
06-07-2006, 07:17 AM
I would like to invite the country to buy a map of the United States and find New Orleans. Please notice that it is in the state of Louisiana not Mississippi. I did not know of the recovery in NO. The Mississippi gulf coast is my own tiny piece of paradise and I will spend my lifetime to see it recover. When I'm not working I'm helping. I've not drawn any unemployment nor have i recieved assistance from FEMA. We have all become advocates of recovery and will continue as long as it takes and I won't allow this state to be put down without defending it.

Who is putting it down? Where has ANYONE put down any state, region, city, or street? Where has ANYONE said that NOLA should get help and the Gulf Coast shouldn't? If you read early posts in the Katrina thread, I was putting out calls for help in various MS towns, I recall one in particular with an urgent need ofr RN's and paramedics.

The point is not--and never has been--that any particular area deserves help while another doesn't.

I've all along stated that taxpayer dollars should be used towards rebuilding infrastructure--streets, hospitals, libraries, public housing--but that taxpayer dollars should not be used to rebuild private homes and businesses. That's what insurance and non-profit organizations (Habitat for Humanity to name one) are for. And that's the entire point.

And for the record, if you'll notice the links in my signature, one is for a NOLA based charity, the other benefits non-profit organizations in the Biloxi/Gulfport region.

Anne

ducklite
06-07-2006, 07:29 AM
whether any of you like it or not a portion of our tax dollars go to disaster relief regardless of where it occurs in this great nation that includes all of us including Florida. I've always given to charities that help out the state of Florida and all your MANY hurricanes. of course I know you can't help what nature brings your way and that is the reason I will continue to give. as of Mississippi...we will be okay...no matter what

There is a difference between tax dollars going for disaster relief which gives immediate life sustaining basics such as food, water, and shelter for the week or two after a disaster, and then uses tax dollars to rebuild infrastructure (which IMHO includes hauling away debris, as leaving it creates a public health issue). However, tax dollars should NOT be used to rebuild homes, or repair homes--other than perhaps an immediate mitagation such as installing a blue tarp on a damaged roof or supplying sand bags to areas prone to flooding.

Why is a natural disaster such as a flood any different than having a fire. If your house burned to the ground, would you expect the government to rebuild it for you? Of course not. Then why would anyone expect the same for a storm damaged home?

Anne

RachaelRol
06-07-2006, 07:49 AM
I agree with Anne completely. There is a need for personal responsiblity as a homeowner. There are risks involved and as homeowners we need to proactively plan for them.

I think some of you are falsely bashing Anne. I am much more of a lurker than poster, but have read many of Anne's posts and she is never preachy or on a sopa box. She is very honest and straight forward and as MrsKreamer, points out very generous.

The goverment is there to stop the bleeding, the rest is up to the indivudual. Its not about not wanting to help, its about helping those who help themselves. Those who sit around and complain or haven't yet decided to "pick themselves up from thier bootstraps" don't really deserve anything more than has amready been provided.

LuvDuke
06-07-2006, 08:50 AM
I have to say something about this. You have no knowledge about Anne's generosity. When DH and I moved to Fl to find work she funrnished our apartment. I was amazed by how selflessly she gave. If it weren't for her we would have been eating on the floor, and sleeping on an air matress.

Besides she makes a great point. I am from new orleans and was ashamed to see so many from here living in hotels for months, not finding jobs in areas that had them. Dh and I decided early on after Katrina that we had to provide for our family, so we did what we had to do....and were very blessed that those here on the Dis were there to help, but we also found work and a place to live by October. We relocated 700+ miles away. We provided for our family until we were able to return home. We did it all without a dime from FEMA.

And just like DL, you have no idea what someone else's situation is either and it's pure speculation on both your parts.

Good for you that you got on your feet. I've got neighbors here who DID have insurance and DID have provisions and still things went tragically wrong. I've got neighbors who can't move back into their homes because they got low-balled by their insurance companies and can't afford to take them to court. Gee, maybe, as they sent out that premium check, they should've known their insurance company wasn't going to pay. Maybe as they stacked up the provisions, they should've known their roof was going to come caving in. Yeah, that's the ticket. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/sprachlos/speechless-smiley-034.gif

Regardless, using someone's personal tragedy as a jump off point to peddle your own "personal responsibility" agenda is disgraceful. And, kicking someone while they're down goes to the heart of character. Doubly so when it's done under they guise of "honesty".

Btw, water damage caused by storm surge flooding is wind damage and not simple flooding as claimed by the insurance companies and some of the "experts" on this board. People's homes along the Gulf Coast and NO were not damaged by floods. They were damaged by high winds resulting in a storm surge and government neglect of the levees. Geeez, maybe they should've had insurance for neglect and lying. Yup, that's the ticket.

ducklite
06-07-2006, 09:58 AM
And just like DL, you have no idea what someone else's situation is either and it's pure speculation on both your parts.

Good for you that you got on your feet. I've got neighbors here who DID have insurance and DID have provisions and still things went tragically wrong. I've got neighbors who can't move back into their homes because they got low-balled by their insurance companies and can't afford to take them to court. Gee, maybe, as they sent out that premium check, they should've known their insurance company wasn't going to pay. Maybe as they stacked up the provisions, they should've known their roof was going to come caving in. Yeah, that's the ticket. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/sprachlos/speechless-smiley-034.gif

Regardless, using someone's personal tragedy as a jump off point to peddle your own "personal responsibility" agenda is disgraceful. And, kicking someone while they're down goes to the heart of character. Doubly so when it's done under they guise of "honesty".

Btw, water damage caused by storm surge flooding is wind damage and not simple flooding as claimed by the insurance companies and some of the "experts" on this board. People's homes along the Gulf Coast and NO were not damaged by floods. They were damaged by high winds resulting in a storm surge and government neglect of the levees. Geeez, maybe they should've had insurance for neglect and lying. Yup, that's the ticket.

While I have empathy for people who are having problems getting their insurance to pay up, it's still a private matter between them and their insurance company. The only way government should be involved is if a complaint is made to a government regulatory agency, such as the insurance commissioner, or if the matter ends up in the courts. (And BTW--many attorney's will take these types of cases on a contingency basis, no upfront fee required.)

Rebuilding private property is between the owner of the property and the insurance carrier, it is not the responsibility of the government or taxpayers. I'm not sure what you expect the taxpayer to do for people in that situation.

People who live in homes in coastal or low lying areas protected by levees took an inherent risk when they chose to build or buy those homes, regardless of how well a levee system was, or wasn't maintained. Had a levee been knocked out by a terrorist bomb and done the same damage, would it still be the governments fault or responsibility to cure? And for most of the people along the MS and AL coastline, there were no levees to breach. So who do they have to blame?

Anne

LuvDuke
06-07-2006, 10:57 AM
While I have empathy for people who are having problems getting their insurance to pay up, it's still a private matter between them and their insurance company. The only way government should be involved is if a complaint is made to a government regulatory agency, such as the insurance commissioner, or if the matter ends up in the courts. (And BTW--many attorney's will take these types of cases on a contingency basis, no upfront fee required.)

Rebuilding private property is between the owner of the property and the insurance carrier, it is not the responsibility of the government or taxpayers. I'm not sure what you expect the taxpayer to do for people in that situation.

People who live in homes in coastal or low lying areas protected by levees took an inherent risk when they chose to build or buy those homes, regardless of how well a levee system was, or wasn't maintained. Had a levee been knocked out by a terrorist bomb and done the same damage, would it still be the governments fault or responsibility to cure? And for most of the people along the MS and AL coastline, there were no levees to breach. So who do they have to blame?

Anne

First, get a clue. The people you look down your nose at ARE taxpayers.

Second, what part of flooding caused by storm surge which is caused by high winds do you not understand? There was no need for a separate flood policy as the damage was caused by high winds, which btw, is covered by a standard insurance policy.

Third, are you actually suggesting everyone should move away from any area that may have a potential to cause damage?

Geez, close up California that has those earthquakes.

Shut down the Midwest that has those tornadoes.

Get the hell out of Florida for the hurricanes. (this means you)

Oh no, move away from the Rockies and that potential avalanche problem.

Ooo, stay away from Washington state and that ornery Mt. St. Helens.

How ridiculous do you want to make this assuming it can even get more ridiculous than it already is?

Yanno what, people like you are so caught up in your own rhetoric, you don't even make sense.

Btw, when government takes tax money to maintain a project and they fail to maintain it, you're damned right it is government's responsibility for the damages.

I think this horse is not only dead, but unrecognizable pulp. I'm outta here as my point has been made.

Just remember this word: KARMA. Eventually, it bites us all in the ***.

wishfulthinkin
06-07-2006, 11:04 AM
tell me ducklite...what would you have us do with the thousands of homeless people? send them to iraq to live in American gov't rebuilt neighborhoods that our tax dollars are also paying for?

Thank you LuvDuke...finally someone understands without criticism. I know I'm sounding a little frustrated and I am but not for myself. I know families who had 3 different insurance policies for wind, flood and hurricanes and each one justifies not paying. the wind won't pay because it was hurricane related....the flood won't pay because it was a storm surge...the hurricane won't pay because it was flood damage...its all a catch 22 and the insurance company wants to triple the price of premiums and haven't paid a cent. these are the crooks in the situation not us or the gov't. And the elderly that thought they would be able to live on retirement have to choose between food, medicine or insurance. what would you choose. and some of these people have lived in the same home for several generations its not like a summer home neighborhood. this storm was a freak of nature. and I hope that Florida or no other state ever has to go through what we have. I dearly love the people here. they are my people and they are strong. Those who can are rebuilding. the rest will probably sell to casinos and that is sad.

ducklite
06-07-2006, 11:14 AM
First, get a clue. The people you look down your nose at ARE taxpayers.

Second, what part of flooding caused by storm surge which is caused by high winds do you not understand? There was no need for a separate flood policy as the damage was caused by high winds, which btw, is covered by a standard insurance policy.

Third, are you actually suggesting everyone should move away from any area that may have a potential to cause damage?

Geez, close up California that has those earthquakes.

Shut down the Midwest that has those tornadoes.

Get the hell out of Florida for the hurricanes. (this means you)

Oh no, move away from the Rockies and that potential avalanche problem.

Ooo, stay away from Washington state and that ornery Mt. St. Helens.

How ridiculous do you want to make this assuming it can even get more ridiculous than it already is?

Yanno what, people like you are so caught up in your own rhetoric, you don't even make sense.

Btw, when government takes tax money to maintain a project and they fail to maintain it, you're damned right it is government's responsibility for the damages.

I think this horse is not only dead, but unrecognizable pulp. I'm outta here as my point has been made.

Just remember this word: KARMA. Eventually, it bites us all in the ***.

First of all, storm surge is flooding. It doens't matter what the cause of teh flooding was, if the water comes in from "the bottom," it's considered flooding, if it comes in from the top it's not. So if the home was damaged by storm surge and the homeowner didn't ahve flood insurance, they are out of luck. Why should their mistake of not having a flood policy be anyone's responsibility but their own?

The majority of homes damaged by storm surge in AL, MS, and FL weren't protected by any levee system, so why would those people deserve anything from teh government for an act of God?

And if my home were damaged by whatever peril, I wouldn't expect the government to pay for it--unless it was hit by a runaway government truck or some other such thing. But I would never expect the government--and taxpayers--to reimburse me for an ACT OF GOD.

Yes, I live in Florida, but I live on a hill--240 feet above sea level, so flooding isn't a concern. I've got adequate insurance to pay for wind damage, less my $10K hurricane deductible, and have ample savings to cover that if need be.

I do'nt expect anyone to move. But I do expect people to understand that there are inherent risks to living just about anywhere. In my case lightning is a huge risk--which is why we have lightning rods and surge protectors. But if they failed, I sure as heck wouldn't expect the other taxpayers in the country to replace my electronics, or rebuild my home if it caught fire.

You still haven't answered my question. Do you really think that taxpayer dollars should go to rebuild private homes destroyed by acts of God? And if so, where do you draw the line? If a multi-million dollar home was damaged and undersinsured, shouldn't they get the same government benefits as the person living in the mobile home with three cents to their name? Where do you draw the line?

Anne

ducklite
06-07-2006, 11:37 AM
tell me ducklite...what would you have us do with the thousands of homeless people? send them to iraq to live in American gov't rebuilt neighborhoods that our tax dollars are also paying for?

Unless they were a low income family living in government housing, then I don't understand why the government would have any responsibility to them. Have them do what anyone would do if they lost their home. Move in with relatives. Rent. Relocate to a new area. Do whatever it takes to get back on their feet. What's going on it the MIddle East has nothing to do with this (and BTW--I'm not a supporter of us being there at all. I've been a vocal critic of the "Stupid Bush" for as long as I can remember.)

Thank you LuvDuke...finally someone understands without criticism. I know I'm sounding a little frustrated and I am but not for myself. I know families who had 3 different insurance policies for wind, flood and hurricanes and each one justifies not paying. the wind won't pay because it was hurricane related.... the flood won't pay because it was a storm surge...[/the hurricane won't pay because it was flood damage...its all a catch 22 and the insurance company wants to triple the price of premiums and haven't paid a cent.

Then people didn't read the fine print to be sure they were adequately covered to begin with. Again, whose fault is that? Certainly not the rest of the taxpayers. For every one family with an insurance issue, there are hundreds who have gotten their claims paid and are rebuilding. What does that tell you? And for people in Florida pissing moaning about it, I have NO sympathy for those covered by Citizen's, because they aren't paying market rates for home owners insurance to begin with. If they truly believe that they have a valid claim that isn't being paid, take the companies to court. If they don' hae a valid claim because they didn't get the right coverage to begin with, that is their problem, and only their problem.

these are the crooks in the situation not us or the gov't. And the elderly that thought they would be able to live on retirement have to choose between food, medicine or insurance. what would you choose.

So now it's everyone's fault that people didn't properly plan for retierment? My mom is retired, she has savings, plus two pensions and Social Security. My in-laws are retired, and live off savings, a pension, and Social Security. Neither of them is constantly complaining about not being able to afford to live and being on a fixed income, because they SAVED while they were working, and PLANNED for their future.

and some of these people have lived in the same home for several generations its not like a summer home neighborhood. this storm was a freak of nature.

Because a home was in a family for generations doesn't mean a thing. This storm WASN'T a freak, it was something we should have all seen coming for years. If you live down South, hurricanes happen. It's NOT rocket science to figure that one out.

and I hope that Florida or no other state ever has to go through what we have. I dearly love the people here. they are my people and they are strong. Those who can are rebuilding. the rest will probably sell to casinos and that is sad.

Perhaps you have forgotten Hurricane Andrew. Or you are too self-involved to be bothered.

Anne

wishfulthinkin
06-07-2006, 11:40 AM
I'll answer your question. If your home was struck by lightening and destroyed I would much rather my tax dollars go to you and helping you rebuild than go to supporting a welfare family or the war in iraq.

ducklite
06-07-2006, 11:46 AM
I'll answer your question. If your home was struck by lightening and destroyed I would much rather my tax dollars go to you and helping you rebuild than go to supporting a welfare family or the war in iraq.

I would rather my money not go to ANY of the above. Tax dollars should be used for the good of ALL--that means to build schools, hospitals, libraries, civic centers, roads and bridges, and to protect with police, firefighters, ambulances, a military adequate to defend us and perhaps our closest allies--not the world.

But you are skewing the entire point, because I wouldn't ask for public dollars to repair my privately owned home. No one should.

Anne

wishfulthinkin
06-07-2006, 11:48 AM
I'll answer your question:

if your home was struck by lightening and destroyed I would much rather my tax dollars go to you and helping you rebuild than to supporting a welfare family or the war in iraq.

as for being selfish...yes I am and I've been forced to be that was these past few months. when you are helping others to recover sometimes nice just doesn't cut it

arminnie
06-07-2006, 04:54 PM
Anne - Thank you again for ALL of the work you have done to help since Katrina. I know the personal effort and sacrifices that you have made and appreciate it.

It's a very difficult time, and people's emotions are running high often with a dose of bitterness thrown in.

I have personally been through Betsy (1965 hurricane) and Katrina. I have also been through a tornado in Houston (1978) and an earthquake (San Francisco 1989). Plus I've been through a devastating drop in the economy in Texas in the 80s that wiped out my lifetime savings (in my 40s).

But those are just material things. I've had close relatives brutally assaulted and involved in horrible accidents (left in a near vegetative state for over 20 years now).

There are times that I've wanted to scream and cry "Why me?" but the answer is to just pick up the pieces and go on. Some people learn to do that quicker than others.

Many people's lives have been changed forever. I do feel sorry for people that I see who are just not able to come to terms with it, and keep demanding that things be put back the way they were. It's just not possible.

I feel so sorry for people that have lost loved ones. But the "stuff" is just "stuff".

RitaZ.
06-07-2006, 05:57 PM
And for people in Florida pissing moaning about it, I have NO sympathy for those covered by Citizen's, because they aren't paying market rates for home owners insurance to begin with.

As of right now, Citizens is the second largest insurer in FL. When we bought our current home in 1996, we had to sign up with JUA (now Citizens) because no other companies were issuing/writing any homeowner ins. policies. Our rates with JUA were much higher than what we've paid since our policy was sold to a private insurer. We were with JUA for one year. Our rates now are still less than what we paid JUA in 1996, but almost at the same level. I'm certain that we'll see a huge increase when our policy is renewed in Sept. Homeowners that have to have Citizens aren't in it by choice, they have no other choice and their rates are higher.

BTW, I wanted to add that, by law, Citizens rates have to be higher than those of traditional insurance companies. The reason for that is to prevent competition with private companies because, as we all know, Citizens it's supposed to be the insurer of last resort.

zipuzee
06-07-2006, 08:10 PM
You still haven't answered my question. Do you really think that taxpayer dollars should go to rebuild private homes destroyed by acts of God? And if so, where do you draw the line? If a multi-million dollar home was damaged and undersinsured, shouldn't they get the same government benefits as the person living in the mobile home with three cents to their name? Where do you draw the line?

Anne

I jumping into this mess for one reason: For the record, the nine feet of flood water that destroyed my house was NOT CAUSED BY AN ACT OF GOD. The levees failed because they were not built properly. The Army Corp of Engineers has admitted that. Now, since that is a government agency, shouldn't they at least help make it right?? And also for the record, I have not registered for the federal money and am not sure I will.

annegal
06-08-2006, 06:33 AM
Amen...zipuzee.

I think most people are unaware of that fact.

ducklite
06-08-2006, 07:25 AM
As of right now, Citizens is the second largest insurer in FL. When we bought our current home in 1996, we had to sign up with JUA (now Citizens) because no other companies were issuing/writing any homeowner ins. policies. Our rates with JUA were much higher than what we've paid since our policy was sold to a private insurer. We were with JUA for one year. Our rates now are still less than what we paid JUA in 1996, but almost at the same level. I'm certain that we'll see a huge increase when our policy is renewed in Sept. Homeowners that have to have Citizens aren't in it by choice, they have no other choice and their rates are higher.

BTW, I wanted to add that, by law, Citizens rates have to be higher than those of traditional insurance companies. The reason for that is to prevent competition with private companies because, as we all know, Citizens it's supposed to be the insurer of last resort.

That's all well and good, but you STILL AREN'T PAYING MARKET RATES! If you were, there wouldn't be a surcharge being passed on to everyone else to cover Citizen's losses. The rest of the state who has private insurance is subsidizing your homeownership.

Anne

ducklite
06-08-2006, 07:30 AM
I jumping into this mess for one reason: For the record, the nine feet of flood water that destroyed my house was NOT CAUSED BY AN ACT OF GOD. The levees failed because they were not built properly. The Army Corp of Engineers has admitted that. Now, since that is a government agency, shouldn't they at least help make it right?? And also for the record, I have not registered for the federal money and am not sure I will.

You lived in a flood zone, you should have had flood insurance. Not sure why that's such a difficult concept to grasp. Regardless of why your home was flooded, did you make an effort to mitigate your damages by purcahsing flood insurance?

Perhaps IF there's solid proof that the flooding was caused by deficient engineering, the government owes people ONLY what would be over and above coverage limits they would have had if they had a flood policy. But if you lived anywhere that you relied on a levee to keep your home from flooding and didn't purchase flood insurance, so sad, too bad.

Anne

LuvDuke
06-08-2006, 09:26 AM
Amen...zipuzee.

I think most people are unaware of that fact.

Au contraire. They're aware of it and they don't give a crap because it doesn't jive with their "armchair general" personal responsibility agenda.

ducklite
06-08-2006, 09:43 AM
Au contraire. They're aware of it and they don't give a crap because it doesn't jive with their "armchair general" personal responsibility agenda.

If you live in an area near a large body of water and are at, below, or slightly above sea level, and require a levee system to keep your home from flooding, it's not rocket science to figure out you should have flood insurance. I'm not sure why that concept is so foreign.

ANne

RitaZ.
06-08-2006, 10:34 AM
That's all well and good, but you STILL AREN'T PAYING MARKET RATES! If you were, there wouldn't be a surcharge being passed on to everyone else to cover Citizen's losses. The rest of the state who has private insurance is subsidizing your homeownership.

Anne

Well, I guess the law is wrong and you're right! :rolleyes: No point trying to debate it since you appear to know it all. Aren't you tired of being "right" all the time? ;) I have private insurance, so I'm not sure who your refers to. :confused3

Who knows, maybe one day your private insurer will drop your policy, like it's happened to many hard working and decent Floridians and you'll find yourself with the "moaners" that have Citizens. :bitelip: Enjoy your day! :wave2:

zipuzee
06-08-2006, 10:59 AM
You lived in a flood zone, you should have had flood insurance. Not sure why that's such a difficult concept to grasp. Regardless of why your home was flooded, did you make an effort to mitigate your damages by purcahsing flood insurance?

Perhaps IF there's solid proof that the flooding was caused by deficient engineering, the government owes people ONLY what would be over and above coverage limits they would have had if they had a flood policy. But if you lived anywhere that you relied on a levee to keep your home from flooding and didn't purchase flood insurance, so sad, too bad.

Anne

I never stated that I did not have flood insurance. And there IS solid proof, reams of it. The gov't shouldn't be taken for a ride. I just want to be made whole. Before Katrina, I had NO house note, it was paid off; now I need to take a mortgage of 169,000.

ducklite
06-08-2006, 11:06 AM
Well, I guess the law is wrong and you're right! :rolleyes: No point trying to debate it since you appear to know it all. Aren't you tired of being "right" all the time? ;) I have private insurance, so I'm not sure who your refers to. :confused3

Who knows, maybe one day your private insurer will drop your policy, like it's happened to many hard working and decent Floridians and you'll find yourself with the "moaners" that have Citizens. :bitelip: Enjoy your day! :wave2:

The "You and Yours" are rhetorical. The way your post is worded it appears taht you are insured by Citizen's. My comments are not meant towards any one person, but everyone insured by Citizen's.

Those who are insured through Citizen's are not paying full market rates for their insurance. Market rates would cover the cost of doing business as well as any losses that the company incurred. Because the State of Florida is surcharging anyone with a homeowners policy in the state of Florida to cover Citizen's losses, whether the person is insured by Citizen's or not, in effect those covered by Citizen's are paying subsidized, or below market, rates.

Why is every homeowner in the state paying for welfare to bail out those who can not get insurance through private sources, due to where they choose to live?

Citizen's insured's, and Citizen's losses are not my problem. And frankly unless every insurer in the state pulls out, I highly doubt I'll ever have a problem finding insurance. I live in a newly constructed home built above building code requirements, no where near water other than a water trap about 200 feet away and 12 feet lower in elevation on a golf course, 240 feet above sea level, and more than 50 miles inland from any coastal area.

I get solicited on a regular basis by companies offering to insure my home, from lower end mass market carriers to high end specialty carriers.

Bottom line, the entire state shouldn't be subsidizing Citizen's. The entire cost of doing business, including paying for losses needs to be borne by those insured by the plan, and only those insured by the plan. Otherwise the insurance industry in the State of Florida is draconian socialism at work, nothing more.

Anne

RitaZ.
06-08-2006, 11:19 AM
Anne~ Evidently, you didn't read my initial post thoroughly, perhaps you were too eager to reply to tell me how wrong I am.

Again, you know everything and your life is perfectly planned. There is no point in adding anything else to your extensive fountain of knowledge.

arminnie
06-08-2006, 12:11 PM
I just want to be made whole.

And there are people all over the world who would like to be made whole from bad things that have happened to them. It doesn't always happen. I guarantee I've lost way more than the amount of the mortgage you are having to take out. I had to live with it and go on.

LuvDuke
06-08-2006, 12:32 PM
I never stated that I did not have flood insurance. And there IS solid proof, reams of it. The gov't shouldn't be taken for a ride. I just want to be made whole. Before Katrina, I had NO house note, it was paid off; now I need to take a mortgage of 169,000.

We can endlessly showcase the "I'm perfect and I know it all brigade" or we can share experiences.

First of all, I know how you feel when you say "I just want to be made whole." This area still hasn't recovered from Charley and that was a small, fast moving storm WITHOUT much of a storm surge. I know how it feels when you wish life could be the way it was, and yet deep down, you know it will never be the same. Give yourself time to mourn for what was and give yourself time to start hoping for the future.

Here's the practical advice: If you are not being treated fairly by your insurance company, get yourself a private adjuster. My sister was low-balled by her insurance company and got a private adjuster. The insurance company ended up settling for $165,000 MORE than they had previously offered. Get mad and get even.

Hang in there. There are millions across this country going through what you're going through. You'll survive and things will look better.

I hope this helps and feel free to PM me.

LuvDuke
06-08-2006, 12:36 PM
Well, I guess the law is wrong and you're right! :rolleyes: No point trying to debate it since you appear to know it all. Aren't you tired of being "right" all the time? ;) I have private insurance, so I'm not sure who your refers to. :confused3

Who knows, maybe one day your private insurer will drop your policy, like it's happened to many hard working and decent Floridians and you'll find yourself with the "moaners" that have Citizens. :bitelip: Enjoy your day! :wave2:

Kinda begs the question why the complaining individual is still living in an area in which they have so many complaints about others taking so much advantage of their good nature? :lmao:

ducklite
06-08-2006, 12:46 PM
Here's the practical advice: If you are not being treated fairly by your insurance company, get yourself a private adjuster. My sister was low-balled by her insurance company and got a private adjuster. The insurance company ended up settling for $165,000 MORE than they had previously offered. Get mad and get even.

And I agree with you 100% with this statement. I never said that insurance comapnies shouldn't pay up. Of course they should--if the peril was covered under the terms of their policy. If people didn't have flood insurance, than they shouldn't be expecting payment on flood damage.

All I am saying is that

A. If you were un/underinsured, that is either your ignorant mistake that you'll now have to deal with, or between you and your insurance company, and you have no reason to seek public dollars for repairs to your home.

B. Citizen's should not expect everyone in the state of Florida to subsidize their costs of doing business, rather those costs need to be passed to their insured's. If it means people need to sell their homes because they can't afford coverage, that's just the way it is. I'm sure there are some who aren't insured by Citizen's who won't be able to afford the $400 surcharge they are being forced to pay so some millionaire on Fisher's Island can get subsidized rates.

Anne

annegal
06-08-2006, 01:03 PM
If you live in an area near a large body of water and are at, below, or slightly above sea level, and require a levee system to keep your home from flooding, it's not rocket science to figure out you should have flood insurance. I'm not sure why that concept is so foreign.

ANne
There is a flood insurancec map of LA and only certain areas need flood insurance.

I disagree about N.O......the levee sstem failed due to poor design.
Hate to burst your bubble, Anne...the whole state of Louisiana is drained with levees and canals.

ducklite
06-08-2006, 01:20 PM
There is a flood insurancec map of LA and only certain areas need flood insurance.

I disagree about N.O......the levee sstem failed due to poor design.
Hate to burst your bubble, Anne...the whole state of Louisiana is drained with levees and canals.

"Need" means that the mortgage companies require it.

Like I said, if I lived at, below, or slightly above sea level, I'd have it, whether my mortgage company required it or not.

If that means the whole state should buy it, then that's what they should do. I have a lot of friends who live near the shore in NJ. They aren't in designated flood plains, but they have a flood policy. The cost of having one far outweighs the cost of not having one should you ever need it...

Anne

arminnie
06-08-2006, 03:18 PM
There is a flood insurancec map of LA and only certain areas need flood insurance.

I disagree about N.O......the levee sstem failed due to poor design.
Hate to burst your bubble, Anne...the whole state of Louisiana is drained with levees and canals.

Only certain areas were required by mortgage companies to have flood insurance. Many properties in the flood plain did not have mortgages or flood insurance.

I cannot state that poor design played no part in the failures, but I am certain that the total CORRUPTION so prevalent in Louisiana politics (can't speak for Mississippi) had way more to do with the failures than anything else. Even good design (which I'm not even saying was there) isn't enough when you have people bribing and paying off contractors, inspectors, etc at every step of the way.

William $BILL Jefferson is my pathetic excuse for a congressman. Not all of the Louisiana politicians are corrupt but enough to have inflicted major damage.

zipuzee
06-08-2006, 03:20 PM
Attached is a link to an article in the today's (6/8) New York Times (you'll probably need to cut and paste). Below that is paragraph three of the article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/08/opinion/08Isaacson.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

"The Army Corps of Engineers helped bring some clarity last week by issuing a remarkably forthright report accepting full blame for the design flaws and negligence that caused the breaks in the levees it built. That helped people everywhere understand why federal money should, as Mr. Bush has pledged, mitigate the damage to the houses, businesses and utilities that relied on those levees, just as a corporation would have been expected to help cover damages caused by its negligence."

arminnie
06-08-2006, 03:22 PM
This is a great link showing the time line of what happened with the levee failures in the New Orleans area:

http://www.nola.com/katrina/graphics/flashflood.swf

I think I've posted it before, but I've looked at it a zillion times myself.

ducklite
06-08-2006, 03:33 PM
Attached is a link to an article in the today's (6/8) New York Times (you'll probably need to cut and paste). Below that is paragraph three of the article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/08/opinion/08Isaacson.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

"The Army Corps of Engineers helped bring some clarity last week by issuing a remarkably forthright report accepting full blame for the design flaws and negligence that caused the breaks in the levees it built. That helped people everywhere understand why federal money should, as Mr. Bush has pledged, mitigate the damage to the houses, businesses and utilities that relied on those levees, just as a corporation would have been expected to help cover damages caused by its negligence."

Some of those areas flooded before the levees breached--and in those cases they deserve nothing--they built in low lying areas. Period. I can see your point where the levee's failed because of poor design and flooded areas that should have stayed dry, although I still hold out that anyone in NOLA and the surrounding areas should ahve had flood insurance. I've got friends who live in the Central Business District who had no flooding at all--NONE--and never have in the 100 or so years the landmark home has been in the family. But they carry flood insurance, something that would jsut make sense for anyone living in such an area.

BUT--some of the posters on this thread are saying that people in coastal areas of MS and FL should be reimbursed. For what? There are no levee's there. Their damage was due to an act of God. Why should they be reimbursed by tax dollars for something the government had no control of at all?

Anne

lulu71
06-09-2006, 08:30 AM
I feel so sorry for people that have lost loved ones. But the "stuff" is just "stuff".

No truer words have been spoken (at least on this thread ;) ).

agnes!
06-09-2006, 09:09 AM
I cannot state that poor design played no part in the failures, but I am certain that the total CORRUPTION so prevalent in Louisiana politics (can't speak for Mississippi) had way more to do with the failures than anything else. Even good design (which I'm not even saying was there) isn't enough when you have people bribing and paying off contractors, inspectors, etc at every step of the way.

William $BILL Jefferson is my pathetic excuse for a congressman. Not all of the Louisiana politicians are corrupt but enough to have inflicted major damage.


I helped people find missing loved ones after Katrina. Of ALL the offices & people I talked to, which included Senators, Congresspeople, Speaker of the House, Congressional Committees, USAToday reporters, disaster relief officals in Texas & LA & Mississippi, individual hospitals all over the country, Pentagon (Lt. Colonel, Sergeants, etc), FBI local offices and main HQ, FEMA local to NOLA & their national HQ, Salvation Army, LA State government offices, hospital associations both local and national, nursing homes all over LA & Mississippi & texas, heck - *EVEN* the Red Cross!(not my favorite organization) AND the notorious St. Gabriel's Morgue!!!!...ALL of these offices were as helpful as they could try to be., and if they couldn't be helpful at least they tried to be gracious.

*EXCEPT* for Congressman Jefferson's LA office. They told me (gist of what they said because I was so incredulous that ANY thinking person with a heart could be so spectacularly UNhelpful) "Well, we really don't know who you should call or who you should contact. We can't help you."
Ugh.
Am I still bitter about it? You BET. This scumbag doesn't deserve to be in office after all the crud he's pulled, including pulling National Guard Troops off of their post-Katrina duties so Jefferson could "rescue" papers & computers from his NOLA home. (Gee, do you THINK they had incriminating information on them?!? :rolleyes1 ) All together now...let's spell the words bribery and corruption AND incompetence.

agnes!

annegal
06-09-2006, 01:17 PM
He really is a scumbag, Agnes.


Our local Representative, Boustany still goes 100% to keep everyone aware of how devestated the lower southwest of LA is(another area, like Mississippi ,ignored by the press)

DVC Sadie
06-10-2006, 11:49 AM
Only certain areas were required by mortgage companies to have flood insurance. Many properties in the flood plain did not have mortgages or flood insurance.

I cannot state that poor design played no part in the failures, but I am certain that the total CORRUPTION so prevalent in Louisiana politics (can't speak for Mississippi) had way more to do with the failures than anything else. Even good design (which I'm not even saying was there) isn't enough when you have people bribing and paying off contractors, inspectors, etc at every step of the way.

William $BILL Jefferson is my pathetic excuse for a congressman. Not all of the Louisiana politicians are corrupt but enough to have inflicted major damage.


arminnie, The corruption in the state of Louisiana has been a thorn in my side for 40 plus years. The money the fedeal government gave the great state of La. for the Levees was used for other projects, such as casino dredging and other items that had nothing to do with levee maintenance.

My father was a local businessman and what he always taught me was that nothing got done (business) in NOLA without having to pay everyone along the way. It was just the price of doing business.

I too am a survivor or Betsy in 1965, Camille in 1969 and now Katrina. I am so frustrated with the insurance companies who won't pay legal claims.

We will be okay but I fear for people who are not fighters (I am), and people who did work all of their lives and had a large nest egg but find themselves with a check for 250,000.00 but had a house worth so much more. No matter how much insurance and how many different rider policies you own the limit for flood insurance is 250,000.00

Now the Missississippi Insurance Commission is thinking about allowing the insurance companies to raise rates by 398% which would increase our insurance to over 44,000.0 a year. Those kinds of numbers are mind boggling for most people and since the insurance companies didn't pay this time alot of people will probably forgo getting insurance again.

Just because I have empathy for people who are struggling (all people) I do realize that their are some people who will try to work the system every way they can and those people I have nothing but contempt for.

arminnie
06-10-2006, 12:54 PM
Just because I have empathy for people who are struggling (all people) I do realize that their are some people who will try to work the system every way they can and those people I have nothing but contempt for.

It's just so sad on so many levels. And I do want to add here that even though LA has had some terrible politicians and some individuals who have tried to scam the system the vast majority of those with damage are decent people caught in a bad situation.

DVC Sadie
06-10-2006, 01:11 PM
It's just so sad on so many levels. And I do want to add here that even though LA has had some terrible politicians and some individuals who have tried to scam the system the vast majority of those with damage are decent people caught in a bad situation.

ITA! :thumbsup2 Yes, the decent people far outnumber the scammers, thank goodness.