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paper1225
04-21-2006, 10:01 AM
I am not sure if this is the right board for this-but looking for advice. I have been in school at a local university since Sept'01. Last year I started their nursing program and left after about one month. The nursing schedule was too overwhelming(hours required/week). Now that my son will be in kindergarden full time this fall, I am ready to go back........but have questions. The school I am looking at(Deaconess St.Louis) offeres two programs. One will leave me with an associates, but looks good because all the classes are online. I will visit the hospital for my clinicals-I do not know how often yet. As for the bachelors, I will go to school 2-3 full time days/week. The school offers a RN to BSN degree which I would do once I get a full time job as an RN! I am looking for advice on which degree would be best(I have 3 children in school, and DH). Also, any ideas on what a "real" salary may be when I get into the RN field.....Another thought I am trying to decide is to possibly get a pt job as a patient care tech.....what kind of pay would that be and would it be worth my time? TIA

GalDisney
04-21-2006, 10:05 AM
Go to www.salary.com. You can get an idea of salaries there.

paper1225
04-21-2006, 10:06 AM
Thanks GalDisney.......I have done that, and it seems higher than I thought it would be-I hope it would be at that level, but am sure it is not!

deltachi8
04-21-2006, 10:10 AM
I worked for 4 years in HR at a hospital and did recruiting. The BSN where I work is paid at a slightly higher rate, but not much. Basically, the nurses - Associates or BSN do the same work while on the floor. Now, the BSN will better qualify you for career moves into management and the such if thats what you choose to do.

If I were giving advice to someone, I would tell them to get the Associates degree, start working as a nurse and then decide if you want to go on for an advanced degree. You may want to study in a specialty or even pursue a MSN. Why wait? Getting some work experience in will help you decide where you want to go long term and then you can better choose if an advanced degree is worth while. Also, once working, many hospitals will help pay your tuition as you go to higher degrees and specializations.

daisylou
04-21-2006, 10:11 AM
I personally have a BSN and have never regretted getting it. I always think education is a worthwhile expense. But, I was 18 and went straight through, now that I am married and have children it would be a very different situation. Plus, if you do get your associates degree, many employers offer some sort of tuition assistance so you could conceivably have the RN to BSN portion paid for.

As for salary, it varies around the country. But, I work a weekend incentive program (WIP) and make a base rate of $29 dollars an hour with a 60% shift differential (so that works out to $46.40 dollars an hour). Nursing is a wonderful career, psrticularly for a mother. I work weekends 11pm-7am after my sons are asleep, and make the same amount of money I made working full time. Plus, I don't need any daycare.

Good luck in your nursing school journey!

mannasn
04-21-2006, 10:11 AM
Check out the boards at allnurses.com for great nursing info.

New grad nurse pay varies greatly from region to region. In Mississippi, its in the neighborhood of $16-19/hour.

I think the ADN would be the wiser choice when going to school with a family. I am finishing up my BSN and its really tough schedule-wise (I have two kids and a lengthy commute) - just in the time required to squeeze in the leadership/management, community and research courses along with the nursing ones.

You can always go back and bridge to your BSN easily - and lots of employers will pay for that.

Ultimately, I think the BSN is the way to go if you'd like to get into management or get a masters. (not that ADNs aren't in management positions or can't bridge into ADN-MSN programs... I'm just always an advocate of further education)!

Good luck with school! :)

Edit to add - I think it would be worthwhile to get a job as a patient tech.. if you can find the time. Unfortunately for me, I couldn't eek out the time in my schedule to work as well as be a decent wife/mom to my kids. Some of my classmates did work, however, and I think it was really beneficial for them to be in the healthcare settings (increased exposure) - especially those that were techs that could do some skills like venipuncture, etc.

Fire14
04-21-2006, 10:12 AM
In my experience the ADN or BSN don't get any pay differance. I personally would do ADN and after working for co have them pay for you to continue your education. One deciding factor maybe if you wish to specialize in an area.

fakereadhed
04-21-2006, 10:19 AM
I have my ADN. I had several years experience before the BSN bandwagon, so I didn't get mine. With experience, I haven't had it come into play as far as staff nursing jobs go. However, I think it would be a problem for entry level jobs and also if you ever want to move up in the nursing world you will need a BSN before you can continue with further education.

That aside, I think that if I had to do it over again, I would be a PA(physicain's assistant) for several reasons. Less education than BSN, same pay or more, and more respect. Nursing is a thankless profession most of the time, and you are not respected for the amount of responsibility you have- not by most doctors OR patients for what you do.

I like working in the medical field despite that, but no one tells you about the real world when you are going to school. Everyone just smiles and says good for you, so I thought I would tell it like it is.

mannasn
04-21-2006, 10:24 AM
I thought PA had moved to a master's level specialty, now?

princess mom of 4
04-21-2006, 10:28 AM
Although I have a BSN, I too would recommend starting with ADN and letting my employer pay for the continued education. I work in a place where our nursing administrator doesn't even have a BSN (just an old style "diploma") so there's no recognition for BSN vs ADN at all - work the same, pay the same, advancement the same. Good luck with whatever route you choose - it is a worthwhile career, and certainly lots of job security as the country ages...

rkandmjsmommy
04-21-2006, 10:35 AM
I graduate May 17 with an Associates as an RN :banana: :Pinkbounc :banana: :Pinkbounc it has been the HARDEST 2 years of my life. I did all my pre reqs from Sept 2001-Sept 2004 then have done the nursing classes adn clinicals for the past 2 years. I have a 7 year old and 4 year old. I am going on for my Bachelors starting in January, I only have 9 classes to take :teeth: YOU CAN DO IT

Good luck

dvcgirl
04-21-2006, 10:53 AM
I would get your associates degree first. It's been about 6 years since I worked as a nurse, but I had my BA from another school, and worked in public relations for a comapany. I didn't really like what I was doing and so decided to take a totally different turn and went to nursing school. I decided to get my associates and see if I liked it. Guess what....I ended up *really* not liking nursing ;). And I was very, very happy that I hadn't spent any more time going for my degree than the two years I put into it.

I can tell you that the BSN prepared nurses started out making 30 cents more per hour than the AAS nurses...not exactly worth 2 years of additional education. Of course, if you wanted to go into management, you needed a BSN for the most part. I knew within a year of working as a nurse that I would never ever in a zillion years want management in a hospital situation. This all may have changed, but this is how it was back when I was in that game.

I totally agree with the poster who said that nursing is a thankless job. I've never felt more unappreciated in my life than the time I put into that job. All through nursing school such lofty ideals are pushed forth about nursing being a "profession". Perhaps as the higher levels nurses get some respect...I don't know. What I had was a job, and an underpaid job at that. All that I can tell you is that even working as a critcal care nurse, where nurses tend to get more respect, there is really little there.

Also agree with others here who have said that nursing school is actually quite challenging. When I went to school you needed an 80% on all finals in order to advance. By the time I graduated we had lost 60% of our original class number. It was far more stressful than getting my BA at a liberal arts school....that's for damn sure. Of the 80 something people who did graduate at least half of us are no longer in nursing. It's a shame, but actually quite common.

emh1129
04-21-2006, 10:59 AM
I graduate May 17 with an Associates as an RN :banana: :Pinkbounc :banana: :Pinkbounc it has been the HARDEST 2 years of my life. I did all my pre reqs from Sept 2001-Sept 2004 then have done the nursing classes adn clinicals for the past 2 years. I have a 7 year old and 4 year old. I am going on for my Bachelors starting in January, I only have 9 classes to take :teeth: YOU CAN DO IT

Good luck

Congratulations!! :cheer2:
I have been working on my pre reqs for a while now and will be starting my ADN soon.. I'm excited (and really nervous!) ;)
I plan to get my MSN in midwifery after a few years.. ahh.. I'm going to be in school forever :rotfl:

bugbugmom
04-21-2006, 11:07 AM
Hey Paper1225,

I'm a RN working in a ER in the STL area. I've been out of school for 21 years . I think it would be great for you to get your ADN and then work and let the hospital pay for your BSN. Also, nursing in the STL area is good. I only hold an diploma in nursing, but would like to start working on my BSN since my youngest will be in kindergarten. I'm not sure what a new GN starting salary is..but I've heard from 18 to 22 dollars. However, weekend option in the STL area pays between 30-45 dollars an hour not including weekend differential or shift differential. Any other questions...feel free to PM me. Good Luck.

mickeymousemom
04-21-2006, 11:13 AM
I'm also in and out of school to get my nursing degree..right now I'm taking some time off to take care of my toddler...I have also struggled with the same thing you're struggling with. After talking to friends and nurses in our local hospital, I've decided to go for my Associates degree. I have no desire to get into management and it seems that's the big difference..around here anyway. I've also been told that the pay rate around here is almost no different for a BSN than an ADN. At our local hospital, the BSN nurses aren't even allowed to have "BSN" after their name on their nametag anymore. Needless to say they aren't happy about it. I figure if I change my mind I can always go back and get my BSN with a few more classes. I would say that out of all the nurses I've talked to around here, almost 100% of them advise not to get my BSN unless I want to get into management. I'm only doing this because I love medicine and with my DH working in the auto industry, it would be nice to know we would have at least one good income coming in and i could work anywhere. I only plan on doing it part time...my main concern is being home with my kids!

plutofreak
04-21-2006, 11:36 AM
Well, I have a ADN, finished school in Jan 06, and found out today

I PASSED BOARDS

Any who, I work at a Children's Hospital in New Orleans, our base is 20.50.
BSN do not get anymore. The only difference is that BSN can move to management. I chose the ADN program, 1) easier to get in to 2) only 2 years

Now I do plan on receiving my BSN in a couple of years, but for now I want to work, and get used to the profession. I must say it is much more rewarding than I ever thought it would be.

Good Luck, and see your dream through I really is worth it

mannasn
04-21-2006, 11:43 AM
Congrats, PlutoFreak! What a relief!

I hope I can be posting the same happy news in a few weeks! :)

jenr812
04-21-2006, 12:20 PM
Check out the boards at allnurses.com for great nursing info.

New grad nurse pay varies greatly from region to region. In Mississippi, its in the neighborhood of $16-19/hour.

I think the ADN would be the wiser choice when going to school with a family. I am finishing up my BSN and its really tough schedule-wise (I have two kids and a lengthy commute) - just in the time required to squeeze in the leadership/management, community and research courses along with the nursing ones.

You can always go back and bridge to your BSN easily - and lots of employers will pay for that.

Ultimately, I think the BSN is the way to go if you'd like to get into management or get a masters. (not that ADNs aren't in management positions or can't bridge into ADN-MSN programs... I'm just always an advocate of further education)!

Good luck with school! :)

Edit to add - I think it would be worthwhile to get a job as a patient tech.. if you can find the time. Unfortunately for me, I couldn't eek out the time in my schedule to work as well as be a decent wife/mom to my kids. Some of my classmates did work, however, and I think it was really beneficial for them to be in the healthcare settings (increased exposure) - especially those that were techs that could do some skills like venipuncture, etc.
Is that you manna from allnurses? I always enjoy reading your posts :)

I agree about checking out allnurses.com. Totally addicting just like the DIS :thumbsup2 Well not as much fun as the DIS but you get the idea ;)

I will graduate in May 2007 with my ADN. It has been really difficult with a family. I plan to get my BSN after I start working (and let the hospital pay fro it :teeth: ). Then when my 3 yo is older (high school age) I want to get my Master's and be a CNM.

As others have said, the pay difference between ADN and BSN isn't much, esp. as a new grad. My ADN program isn't mostly online so I still spend a lot of time in class, plus we have about 2-4 hours of lectures on CD to listen to each week along with hundreds of pages of reading. Hard, but worth it. I'm not sure how intensive a BSN program here would be as the nearest school was too far for me to consider. But the way I am doing it seems pretty much the norm for moms.

Good luck in whatever you decide. I am pleased to see so many nurses and nursing students here at the DIS :cheer2:

jenr812
04-21-2006, 12:21 PM
Well, I have a ADN, finished school in Jan 06, and found out today

I PASSED BOARDS

Any who, I work at a Children's Hospital in New Orleans, our base is 20.50.
BSN do not get anymore. The only difference is that BSN can move to management. I chose the ADN program, 1) easier to get in to 2) only 2 years

Now I do plan on receiving my BSN in a couple of years, but for now I want to work, and get used to the profession. I must say it is much more rewarding than I ever thought it would be.

Good Luck, and see your dream through I really is worth itCONGRATS!!! That is wonderful news! :cheer2:

mickeygaga
04-21-2006, 12:38 PM
First of all, good luck to you on whatever path you choose. Speaking from experience, in Indiana a Registered nurse is a Registered nurse whether your have an ASN or BSN. The pay is equal. However, ASN's usually are not allowed to be charge nurses or managers. Managers and Charge nurses do make more.I have my ASN and currently work as a charge nurse when needed. The nice thing about pursuing your ASN first is that you have the option to work as a Registered Nurse sooner. The Rn to BSN programs are offered totally on-line so you could pursue your BSN while working. Also, new grad BSN nurses will not be managers from the start, so you would be able to gain much needed floor experience with your ASN wile obtaining your BSN at your own pace giving you experience and education to obtain management positions. I am almost finished with my BSN and feel this was the best route financially (and mentally) for myself and my family. My sister is finishing up her ASN this spring and will be taking on-line BSN courses in the fall. I wish you the best of luck- and remember you can do it-you can do it!!!!!!

Jen D
04-21-2006, 12:45 PM
I am so happy I found this thread, although it hasn't clarified my feelings at all! I am thinking about going back to school; was planning on a BSN. I am 14 years out of college; I already have a BA in English and a BFA in film... it's been a long journey since then and switching gears and going into nursing would be rather radical.

I talked to someone recently who has worked at lots of NYC hospitals... she said it is very hard now to get in NYC hospitals without a bachelors, unless you have lots of experience, which is at odds at what I am reading here. She said if you have an associates and lots of experience you'll have no problems, but entry level these days they look for a bachelors. This may just be NYC and she may be wrong, but I've been working on that assumption.

Some days I am very excited about pursuing this; other days I think it would be completely the wrong decision. It's a completely new direction for me. When I go back to school I'll be taking all those classes I avoided like the plague the first time around. That doesn't bother me. What worries me is going through the whole process and then feeling the same way about it that DVCgirl did.

Thanks for the info on allnurses.com. I'll definitely be checking it out.

BethR
04-21-2006, 12:49 PM
That aside, I think that if I had to do it over again, I would be a PA(physicain's assistant) for several reasons. Less education than BSN, same pay or more, and more respect.

I hope that I am not repeating something that someone has already written, but I agree with mannasn - the PA programs that our DD applied to were all Master's programs - she has to take 2 full years in addition to her undergrad degree to become a PA.

DD actually said that if SHE were to do it all over, she would have gotten her undergrad degree in Nursing (instead of the Chemistry degree that she did get) and then would have become a Nurse Anesthetist. I don't know how much extra schooling for that though...

mannasn
04-21-2006, 01:05 PM
Is that you manna from allnurses? I always enjoy reading your posts :)

I agree about checking out allnurses.com. Totally addicting just like the DIS :thumbsup2 Well not as much fun as the DIS but you get the idea ;)

I will graduate in May 2007 with my ADN. It has been really difficult with a family. I plan to get my BSN after I start working (and let the hospital pay fro it :teeth: ). Then when my 3 yo is older (high school age) I want to get my Master's and be a CNM.

Good luck in whatever you decide. I am pleased to see so many nurses and nursing students here at the DIS :cheer2:


That would be me! Here at DIS, by the time I joined "manna" was taken so I'm Manna, SN (student nurse)! LOL - Maybe I'll have to change to mannarn soon? Here's hoping! :)

Awww, thanks! You just made my day! :D

Good luck in your continued journey through nursing school! I think CNMs are great! Wish there were more of them. I've often adamantly said that the next time (if ever) I have a child, it will be in a birthing center with a midwife, not an MD! :)

My school has both a BSN and an ADN program - I will say that the ADN program has MANY more "non-traditional" type students than my program (2 out of 60 students in my class are > 25 years old).

mannasn
04-21-2006, 01:08 PM
I hope that I am not repeating something that someone has already written, but I agree with mannasn - the PA programs that our DD applied to were all Master's programs - she has to take 2 full years in addition to her undergrad degree to become a PA.

DD actually said that if SHE were to do it all over, she would have gotten her undergrad degree in Nursing (instead of the Chemistry degree that she did get) and then would have become a Nurse Anesthetist. I don't know how much extra schooling for that though...

I think that's correct. Years ago, you could become a PA with less than a bachelor's degree. I think in recent years that has changed and all currently practicing PAs were grandfathered into the new system.

CRNA is a great field - so tough to get into, though! Rumor has it that CRNA school is becoming more difficult to get into than medical school! It usually requires a minimum of a BSN, several other classes not part of the nursing curriculum (organic chem, physics, etc) and at LEAST one year of critical care nursing experience. I just finished up my preceptorship in a busy SICU, and my preceptor was beginning anesthesia school next month! *jealous* :)

mannasn
04-21-2006, 01:10 PM
Wow - check this out regarding PAs..

According to the American Academy of Physician Assistants -

What are the prerequisites for applying to a PA program?

A. PA programs look for students who have a desire to study, work hard, and to be of service to their community. Most physician assistant programs require applicants to have previous health care experience and some college education. The typical applicant already has a bachelor's degree and approximately 4 years of health care experience. Commonly nurses, EMTs, and paramedics apply to PA programs.

plgrn
04-21-2006, 01:12 PM
I also waited until my family was more independent before continuing my education and decided upon Adn. The pay here in AL is the same for staff nursing. At this point in my life I was not interested in promotions, however I now work as a clinical coordinator and my pay scale is higher than the BSN staff nurses. I understand this is not the standard case, but it can happen.

dvcgirl
04-21-2006, 01:27 PM
I am so happy I found this thread, although it hasn't clarified my feelings at all! I am thinking about going back to school; was planning on a BSN. I am 14 years out of college; I already have a BA in English and a BFA in film... it's been a long journey since then and switching gears and going into nursing would be rather radical.

I talked to someone recently who has worked at lots of NYC hospitals... she said it is very hard now to get in NYC hospitals without a bachelors, unless you have lots of experience, which is at odds at what I am reading here. She said if you have an associates and lots of experience you'll have no problems, but entry level these days they look for a bachelors. This may just be NYC and she may be wrong, but I've been working on that assumption.

Some days I am very excited about pursuing this; other days I think it would be completely the wrong decision. It's a completely new direction for me. When I go back to school I'll be taking all those classes I avoided like the plague the first time around. That doesn't bother me. What worries me is going through the whole process and then feeling the same way about it that DVCgirl did.

Thanks for the info on allnurses.com. I'll definitely be checking it out.

Well, you sound a lot like me in that you are looking for a change. I made the change pretty early into my previous career...it was a PR position...so much more of a corporpate world job and it felt empty. But I was in my early 20s and I was still pretty idealist about the world back then ;). I went to school at night...kept my other job and so I never had an income gap.

I *loved* nursing school...I will say that. I really did. If nursing could exsist the way that it was presented there, well, healthcare would be a wonderful thing. Unfortunately, it just isn't.... Also, when I came out of school there wasn't a nursing shortage yet. In fact, only two of us got jobs as hosptial nurses, and I was one of the two. I went right to a step-down unit and six months later I went to ICU, which in hindsight was just too fast. You burn out incredibly quickly there....and that's what happened to me. That and hospital management....what an utter nightmare. Endless committees, ridiculous paperwork. In our incredibly litigious society, the term CYA (cover your .....) was the motto for the hospital and therefore it began to feel like
we were made to spend more time documenting what we were doing than we had to actually spend with patients. Understaffing was a *constant* problem.

After being micro-managed to death during my years as a nurse I love the freedom that running my own business brings to me. And while I understand for some that nursing is a calling, for me the "calling" faded when reality kicked in. I have a great deal of respect for anyone who is a nurse. We always have conversations about how teachers, policeman and firefighters are underpaid, and that very well may be true. But I really do believe that nurses are the most underpaid, and underappreciated of all.

baby1038
04-21-2006, 02:27 PM
I can tell you a little bit about the pay in my area. My friend is about to graduate with her associates in nursing in May. She just got offered a job at a local hospital. Graduate nurses start out at $27.14 and hour. Once she passes her boards she will get $28.14. If she chooses to work midnights there is a $4.50 shift differential. HTH.

Michelel

lpbm4
04-21-2006, 02:37 PM
I have my ADN and I have been working on a medical/cardiac ICU floor since I graduated over 7yrs ago. BSN and ADN nurses are paid the same exact salary where I work. I've considered going back to get my BSN but I have 2 young children and I don't know if I want to be a nurse forever. It's a very difficult job and you can never get paid enough. I would like to teach but you need your MSN to teach and I would have to take an extreme pay cut for doing so. So to me, it's not worth it to go back to school. I personally would do your ADN, esp if you have children.

paper1225
04-21-2006, 02:38 PM
Lots of thanks to all who have responded! This has been such a difficult decision to make for me! In todays working world, BA's seem so important in other professions-I was not sure what to do........but I think the ADN will be my path, then on to the RN to BSN once in the field. My DH will be so excited that I made a decision and did not badger him constantly to do it! I am really excited, but definately scared!! I think I will just start school, then see if I can flow into a pct job if I feel ok with it!

mamalle
04-21-2006, 03:07 PM
I have my ADN and have no desire to get my BSN- it doesnt make a difference in our pay besides if you want to go into management- and their jobs arent always secure esp down here. I work per diem except for a few months when I got right out of school. I work in a ER, float to same day surgery ( just started that to cover vacations in the summer and when its slow at my other job) and work pacu in a outpatient surgery center ( lower rate of pay) I work when I want to not the other way around. I do 2 shifts a month in the ER and work about 20-24 hours a week in the outpatient setting. Im appreciated in the outpatient setting most of the time and some of the time in the ER. Experienced nurses are in great demand down here where the acuity is high and its not required to have your BSN. its hard work going to school but well worth it in the long run. I love the flexiblity and the pay. Im not sure what our starting pay is but we do have fulltime no benefits that is pretty high and our per diem rate is the highest in the county at $32.25. Im looking at a 7% raise in May.. good luck with your decision

laura- that is great that the starting pay is that high. I wouldnt thought it was that high up there..

jenr812
04-21-2006, 03:35 PM
That is awesome that you've made a decision Amy! Best of luck to you and I hope to see all of you nurses/student nurses at www.allnurses.com :)

jenr812
04-21-2006, 03:36 PM
I am so happy I found this thread, although it hasn't clarified my feelings at all! I am thinking about going back to school; was planning on a BSN. I am 14 years out of college; I already have a BA in English and a BFA in film... it's been a long journey since then and switching gears and going into nursing would be rather radical.

I talked to someone recently who has worked at lots of NYC hospitals... she said it is very hard now to get in NYC hospitals without a bachelors, unless you have lots of experience, which is at odds at what I am reading here. She said if you have an associates and lots of experience you'll have no problems, but entry level these days they look for a bachelors. This may just be NYC and she may be wrong, but I've been working on that assumption.

Some days I am very excited about pursuing this; other days I think it would be completely the wrong decision. It's a completely new direction for me. When I go back to school I'll be taking all those classes I avoided like the plague the first time around. That doesn't bother me. What worries me is going through the whole process and then feeling the same way about it that DVCgirl did.

Thanks for the info on allnurses.com. I'll definitely be checking it out.
Why don't you call some of the hospitals and ask them directly? :)

MickeyMouth
04-21-2006, 03:42 PM
I think that you made the right decision. I graduated with an associates last May. I am sloooowly going for my BSN. I have been taking one class a semester online and I plan to start the 9 month RN-BSN program in 2007 or 2008. My starting salary was $25/hr. for day shift and I have already received a pay increase! :thumbsup2 I can't believe it has been a year already. I love Nursing!! Good luck to you!

basketrn
04-21-2006, 04:02 PM
I was in your same boat. I recommend your ASN first. You can get school done more quickly, take boards, and start practicing. Then you can go back and get your BSN. I got my ASN (single mom or a 1 year old at the time) and am now completing my BSN 7 years later.

The couple hospitals I have worked at, there was no pay difference for ASN or BSN nurse. Not that being said, you need a BSN if you want to eventually do management.

Good luck!!

kpsteffey
04-21-2006, 05:25 PM
I really advocate the BSN route if you can swing it. I originally graduated from a diploma based hospital program and the while working as an RN continued on to get my BSN and then a Masters in Nursing and am currently a Nurse Practitioner. With an Associate degree it will be very difficult to advance to all of the opportunities nursing has to offer. I am glad I got my Masters degree.
I do realize people have different situations so you have to do what is right for you. Good luck!!! :)

bugbugmom
04-21-2006, 05:25 PM
Great thread everybody. It was nice to check with other RN's and future RN"s. Good luck to those taking boards. I'll have to check out allnurses.com. Thanks for the link. :thumbsup2

Jen D
04-21-2006, 05:33 PM
Why don't you call some of the hospitals and ask them directly? :)

Honestly, now that you guys have turned me on to allnurses.com there's no need. I've spent the last few hours diving in. I'm learning a lot and there is a lot of great info on the NY board. I've been looking for a board just like this one; thanks so much all! The info there is going to save me from a lot of mistakes I was about to make.

babiesX2
04-21-2006, 05:37 PM
Another ADN here. I read page 1 of the thread and haven't gone any deeper.

My vote is for an AD. I have read this many times that the nursing curriculum is very near the same for ADN or BSN. The board test for licensing is the same. The only difference is pre-requisites -- BSN has more business/management type courses. This is what I have read.

petrymom
04-21-2006, 09:19 PM
I am currently in a PART Time ADN program in our area. I have a 6 year old and an 11 year old and work full time. I am in the middle of a total career change and know that I would not have been able to work and raise my kids and go to school without this part time program. In December I will sit for my LPN boards and can start working as an LPN to get experience while I finish the RN program. I am on target to graduate in May of 2008. Such a long time from now, but I know that I am doing the right thing.

Good Luck in your pursuits!!!! You will make the right decision.

DiznEeyore
04-21-2006, 10:06 PM
The timing of this thread is perfect for us! My dh lost his IT job over a year ago. He's been doing part-time jobs since then, and will have his Associate's in Liberal Arts next month. He's been thinking about going into nursing, and has been doing a lot of research into the best route to take.

A friend of my mil's (a nurse obviously) who teaches at a local university told him that if he were to finish his Bachelor's in any field (dh's would be Business -- he's starting those classes next month and hopes to be done within the year) then he can go to a university and get what she called a "second career degree" in nursing, which would be a BSN.

Before she mentioned this option to him (and according to her, all the local nursing schools within universities -- as opposed to the community colleges with the ADN programs -- do it), he'd planned to go for his ADN.

Obviously, time and finances are of the essence. He's read this entire thread and will go spend some time on allnurses.com We were just wondering if anyone was familiar with the "second career degree" program? TIA! :)

harvey545
04-21-2006, 11:08 PM
I am an RN have been for 16years. I have an associate degree in Nursing. I love my work. I have never regrated not going on to school to get my BSN. BSN is important for some but not others. I do agree to get your associate first then go back to get the BSN if you still want to. Many of employers will help you go back to school. Good luck and happiness to you in what ever you decide. Marge :banana:

mannasn
04-21-2006, 11:16 PM
A friend of my mil's (a nurse obviously) who teaches at a local university told him that if he were to finish his Bachelor's in any field (dh's would be Business -- he's starting those classes next month and hopes to be done within the year) then he can go to a university and get what she called a "second career degree" in nursing, which would be a BSN.

:)

I think she was probably referring to an accelerated BSN program. There are some programs where you can earn your BSN in 12-18 months (going to school full-time) instead of the more standard 24-30 months spent in nursing courses. They're pretty intensive programs and aren't as widely offered as the generic ADN or BSN courses are. HTH. LMK if you have any further questions I might could answer. :)

yeartolate
04-22-2006, 12:43 AM
I personally have not seen much of a salary differential for BSN. On the other hand, I make a handsome differential for my CCRN. :thumbsup2

But the BSN may open up doors for you that an assosciates could not - but at the bedside it will make little difference unless you want to advance Most of the nurses that I know that went from ADN to BSN regretted that they did not get the BSN in the first place. They thought the programs available were tedious and expensive with lots of hoops to jump through. This may have to do with waiting too long to advance.

I am also concerned about the "online study" I have worked with several RN's that had this type of program and they washed out of hospital based nursing because they were too overwhelmed. Their program possibly didn't have a good enough clinical experience to back them up. I would speak to nurses who are in current practice following this program before I signed up for it.

crisi
04-22-2006, 09:52 AM
The timing of this thread is perfect for us! My dh lost his IT job over a year ago. He's been doing part-time jobs since then, and will have his Associate's in Liberal Arts next month. He's been thinking about going into nursing, and has been doing a lot of research into the best route to take.

A friend of my mil's (a nurse obviously) who teaches at a local university told him that if he were to finish his Bachelor's in any field (dh's would be Business -- he's starting those classes next month and hopes to be done within the year) then he can go to a university and get what she called a "second career degree" in nursing, which would be a BSN.

Before she mentioned this option to him (and according to her, all the local nursing schools within universities -- as opposed to the community colleges with the ADN programs -- do it), he'd planned to go for his ADN.

Obviously, time and finances are of the essence. He's read this entire thread and will go spend some time on allnurses.com We were just wondering if anyone was familiar with the "second career degree" program? TIA! :)

One of my girlfriends is doing that. She was three years into a social work program when she decided she really wanted to be a nurse midwife. Around here, that's a masters program, so no ASN. She'll need a year between the social work and the nursing to finish prereqs social work didn't provide....biology and chemistry. My ex-sister-in-law (the one I rant about) did it as well. For her, it was about three years.

My sister has her masters in nursing administration, my BIL his masters in nursing as a CRNA. My cousin was a nurse practicioner (master's again) before she became a SAHM. And another girlfriend is finishing up schooling for her CRNA. All say that in this market (Minnesota) pay is greater for BSNs than ASNs and that hospitals will hire a BSN first. But that is older information. The big thing for all three of them is that only a Bachelors will let you get a Masters. I might have ambitious friends, but none have been happy with just nursing - they've all wanted more responsibility/ better pay/ or better hours associated with an advanced degree.

(CRNAs have interesting hours. My brother in law currently works two weeks on - where he can't be more than 10 minutes from the hospital and is on call 24 hours a day. Then two weeks off - where they can travel. He's worked other goofy schedules at other hospitals, but they all translate to "work for a few days, get a few off." The pay for CRNAs is excellent, generally six figures. But its a very competitive field to get into.)

Rozzie
04-22-2006, 10:17 AM
You burn out incredibly quickly there....and that's what happened to me. That and hospital management....what an utter nightmare. Endless committees, ridiculous paperwork. In our incredibly litigious society, the term CYA (cover your .....) was the motto for the hospital and therefore it began to feel like
we were made to spend more time documenting what we were doing than we had to actually spend with patients. Understaffing was a *constant* problem.



this might be the truest, most realistic thing I have ever read on the internet!

First off, I have my ADN. The only reason I would go back would be for personal fulfillment. (lord, can't even spell it I am so tired, LOL) Pay? Mnnn...no, even though my hospital would pay me. Nursing school, was the best and worst experience of my life. Like dvcgirl said, we lost 75% of our class. It stretches you to your limit, and you discover you can do things you never thought you could. It really is a feeling getting pinned.

That said, I have to add, please talk to some nurses before you enter. Find the best hospitals, and get a tech job. Find the floor, unit you want to work on. Even if you work 4 hours a week, you will learn what it is to really work for that hospital. Everyone I graduated with (and me) signed committment bonuses without thinking of being stuck somewhere that we don't like. The reality of nursing is VERY different than school. The CYA thing is what kills me, I just had to take a 3 hour course that our hospital mandated, that pretty much was centered on"how not to get sued, and if you do, don't look to us". Buy your own liability insurance. Mine is only about $100 a year. Worth the extra peace.

2nd advice: work on the floor, medsurg for at least a year. I made a 2 year promise to myself, after a hard nose, respected instructor told me if I could work on the hardest busiest floor for 2 years without quitting, I could do anything in nursing. Boy is that true! My knowledge base from floor work really was the foundation to my career. Taught me organizational skills and how to's of WIDE range complex patient care. How to look at someone and say "this ain't good" without looking on a monitor, or on a chart. I say this, as I see the majority of new grads think the floor is "slumming" and they are too "smart" for it. :rolleyes1

good luck in school! oh BTW, the salary's of some on this thread is killing me! My area is really low pay scale, I am lucky to get $20/hr. We offer a .15 increase for BSN's. whooooooho! big money.... :teeth:

emh1129
04-22-2006, 10:34 AM
Well, I have a ADN, finished school in Jan 06, and found out today

I PASSED BOARDS




:cheer2: :banana: :cheer2: :yay:

Congratulations!

jenr812
04-22-2006, 11:59 AM
Honestly, now that you guys have turned me on to allnurses.com there's no need. I've spent the last few hours diving in. I'm learning a lot and there is a lot of great info on the NY board. I've been looking for a board just like this one; thanks so much all! The info there is going to save me from a lot of mistakes I was about to make.
:cheer2: So glad to hear that! :cool1:

DiznEeyore
04-22-2006, 12:28 PM
I think she was probably referring to an accelerated BSN program. There are some programs where you can earn your BSN in 12-18 months (going to school full-time) instead of the more standard 24-30 months spent in nursing courses. They're pretty intensive programs and aren't as widely offered as the generic ADN or BSN courses are. HTH. LMK if you have any further questions I might could answer. :)
Yes, that's it! :) Wayne State University offers the program, as do a few other local universities. My best friend's sil went through WSU's program and highly recommended it to dh.

The intensity of the program concerns me a bit, especially since he will have to go full-time during the day. I'm not sure how we'll work things at that point, but the first bridge to cross is the BA he has to earn.

He's currently teaching part-time at a community college and the pay is excellent -- he's hoping to add a couple more classes each term while going to school in the evenings and on weekends. I'm almost secretly hoping he gets a full-time teaching position because I know it would be much less disruptive on the family than nursing school! ;) However, I will totally support him in whatever he chooses, of course. Gotta do the good wife thing! :teeth:

DiznEeyore
04-22-2006, 12:44 PM
One of my girlfriends is doing that. She was three years into a social work program when she decided she really wanted to be a nurse midwife. Around here, that's a masters program, so no ASN. She'll need a year between the social work and the nursing to finish prereqs social work didn't provide....biology and chemistry. My ex-sister-in-law (the one I rant about) did it as well. For her, it was about three years.

My sister has her masters in nursing administration, my BIL his masters in nursing as a CRNA. My cousin was a nurse practicioner (master's again) before she became a SAHM. And another girlfriend is finishing up schooling for her CRNA. All say that in this market (Minnesota) pay is greater for BSNs than ASNs and that hospitals will hire a BSN first. But that is older information. The big thing for all three of them is that only a Bachelors will let you get a Masters. I might have ambitious friends, but none have been happy with just nursing - they've all wanted more responsibility/ better pay/ or better hours associated with an advanced degree.

(CRNAs have interesting hours. My brother in law currently works two weeks on - where he can't be more than 10 minutes from the hospital and is on call 24 hours a day. Then two weeks off - where they can travel. He's worked other goofy schedules at other hospitals, but they all translate to "work for a few days, get a few off." The pay for CRNAs is excellent, generally six figures. But its a very competitive field to get into.)
Thanks for all the information on their experience. It gives us a lot to think about. I'm glad he's going to be taking the time to get his BA in Business and not "jumping" into nursing without lots of time to research it.

wdwfamilyinIL
04-22-2006, 01:29 PM
Just thought I would join in also. I am three weeks away from completing my first year in an adn program. Since January I feel that I have went through things I never could imagine. I have been told if you make it through its the most rewarding career one could have, and I just keep telling myself that.
Our local hospital starts an RN with an ADN at 20.00 then there is shift premiums depending on what you work. For now I just want to make it through, so an ADN would be great at this moment in time. I do agree with others start with ADN, and let them pay for the Bachelors.

Kellydelly
04-22-2006, 01:50 PM
Just thought I would join in also. I am three weeks away from completing my first year in an adn program. Since January I feel that I have went through things I never could imagine. I have been told if you make it through its the most rewarding career one could have, and I just keep telling myself that.
Our local hospital starts an RN with an ADN at 20.00 then there is shift premiums depending on what you work. For now I just want to make it through, so an ADN would be great at this moment in time. I do agree with others start with ADN, and let them pay for the Bachelors.


All the comments about nursing school being hell, or worse than could be imagined have me wondering what's so awful about it? I am gong to apply to the nursing school at my local community college this year and am curious what part of nursing school is horrendous. Is it the classes or the clinicals? Is the rigrorous schedule? Please fill me in :) !

Rozzie
04-22-2006, 02:18 PM
All the comments about nursing school being hell, or worse than could be imagined have me wondering what's so awful about it? I am gong to apply to the nursing school at my local community college this year and am curious what part of nursing school is horrendous. Is it the classes or the clinicals? Is the rigrorous schedule? Please fill me in :) !

all of the above and more. I think the pressure at my school that anything below a 75 was a F. To make an A, you needed a 92. To make a B, you needed a 86. On the dreaded math test, anything below a 96 was a F.

To me the worst part was practicums. Hugh. I guess it was because they were always weeding us out, and making things harder and harder.

Clinicals? well won't even go there. I think a lot of the pressure I put on myself. My best advice is to cut everything in your life for the time you are in the program. I wouldn't even watch TV, almost 2 years. I remember after I graduated and passed boards, it took me forever to watch TV without feeling guilt. No disney trips, no trips at all. I missed a lot of birthday parties, and family functions. I found the people were struggling were the one's who just couldn't cut the fun out. We lost 75% of my class....

good luck! Remember to stay ahead, read before lecture, and study twice as hard as everyone else is, and you will be fine.

wdwfamilyinIL
04-22-2006, 02:30 PM
Its everything that make it "hell." We have to have at least a 76 or its a F. We have three days worth of lecture, clinicals and that a week. On monday morning we have a test, and a care plan that is due. It takes me a good 2-3 hours to do a care plan. How do you study for a test that is over 7-8 chapters? We even had a mental health test that was 13 chapters. You get no chance to breathe. I have a family, and if it wasn't for good support from my DH then I wouldn't have made it this far. He had to become Mr Mom. We lost 10 people with our last section, we started with 38.

Rozzie
04-22-2006, 02:51 PM
OMG, care plans.......won't even go there either! I am so glad those days are over!

mamalle
04-22-2006, 03:39 PM
:confused3 Originally Posted by dvcgirl


You burn out incredibly quickly there....and that's what happened to me. That and hospital management....what an utter nightmare. Endless committees, ridiculous paperwork. In our incredibly litigious society, the term CYA (cover your .....) was the motto for the hospital and therefore it began to feel like
we were made to spend more time documenting what we were doing than we had to actually spend with patients. Understaffing was a *constant* problem.




that is why I mainly work outpatient surgery owned soley by doctors and not affiliated with any hospital. I swear I say my hail marys when I go to work in the ER. the money is great dont get me wrong but Im sick of working my weekend shift and the whole house calls in sick and are capped- of course the ER cannot do the same and we are always holding for the rest of the house.It downright dangerous and Im trying to cover my *** and give good patient care- very hard to do these days.. :guilty: Not to mention all the transfers we get for neurosurgery and hand. doesnt matter if its out of county or not. Our Admin. will not refuse anything..

jennobrn01
04-22-2006, 03:51 PM
In my working experience as a RN the "BSN" is just pretty little letters at the end of your name. I have worked since grad (5 years ago) in a hospital setting. BSN's do not receive a higher pay grade. Probably 95% of the RN's hired after grad are diploma/associate degree RN's. Some go on to get the BS because they need it for their career goals. Those that want to remain in a hospital setting do not even bother.

My recommendation: Seek out a nursing program that is onsite at the hospital. These are usually diploma programs. Make your pick on the NCLEX pass rate. These programs turn out the stongest clinical nurses. After grad work in the hospital setting, and decide if you want the BS. The nursing program I graduated from was the traditional hospital based program. I have never regreted the blood, sweat and tears it took to get through that program. Nursing School hell is the hospital-based program. There is no words to describe it. Passing in my school was 80%. I knew a girl that was denied graduation because her grades reached a 75.4%. But when I graduated I could do any skill required of a RN. And no, I never got the BS. I may someday after my children are up and out... but for now... the hospital setting is my love.

jenr812
04-22-2006, 04:12 PM
All the comments about nursing school being hell, or worse than could be imagined have me wondering what's so awful about it? I am gong to apply to the nursing school at my local community college this year and am curious what part of nursing school is horrendous. Is it the classes or the clinicals? Is the rigrorous schedule? Please fill me in :) !
In my program anything under an 80 is failing. I have been busting my butt and getting A's til last minimester - I missed it by one stinking point. I figure I just need to let my A obsession go though, because it isn't worth the stress.


We have class 1 or 2 days a week depending on the class and the classes are 2-3 hours long. But before each class, we are to prepare ourselves by reading between 300-600 pages and listen to 2-5 hours of lectures on CD. We are expected to learn the material at home and then our class time is used to go over case studies to apply what we've studied at home and also for us to ask questions and get clarification. We use the internet to communicate with our classmates and instructors also. We have 2 hours of community service to do for each class and it has to have something to do with what we are studying at that time.


Our clinical days are generally 12 hours (7a-7p) one day a week, but this minimester, we've gotten a break and they are only 7a-3p. Ironically, I actually wish they were 12 hours right now because we are in the section I plan to work in (L&D/postpartum). We used to have to do careplans for each clinical day (they take forever) but now we only have to do one satisfactory care plan the first week of class, and then we have to do a prep sheet for the rest of the clinicals in that class and that takes about an hour.


I am really enjoying my clinicals. I love helping people. Everytime I get to actually perform a skill I haven't done before, it is terrifying yet exhilirating at the same time. I cannot wait to graduate and start working as an RN.


The difficulty for me lies in balancing my family with school and church. I am overwhelmed with laundry, housework, taking the kids to their various activities, planning nutritious meals that everyone will eat and that won't break our budget, planning our budget, trying to spend time with DH once in while LOL, trying to get some quality time with each child and also as a group, sleeping (don't get much at all), etc, etc, etc. This is the most difficult thing I've ever done and I wish I had done it before having a family. However, we know it will be worth it all in the end. It helps that I'm planning a trip to WDW a week after I graduate as a reward for all of us! :cheer2:

Pea-n-Me
04-22-2006, 04:50 PM
I think you should go for the BSN. Most of the other disciplines you will be dealing with have at least a bachelor's, and it will put you on an even playing field with them - especially since you will be making more money than many of them and they don't like that. ;)

Whoever mentioned their hospital will not allow BSN on their nametags, that's outrageous. If you earn it, you should have the right to display it!

emh1129
04-22-2006, 05:29 PM
The difficulty for me lies in balancing my family with school and church. I am overwhelmed with laundry, housework, taking the kids to their various activities, planning nutritious meals that everyone will eat and that won't break our budget, planning our budget, trying to spend time with DH once in while LOL, trying to get some quality time with each child and also as a group, sleeping (don't get much at all), etc, etc, etc. This is the most difficult thing I've ever done and I wish I had done it before having a family. However, we know it will be worth it all in the end. It helps that I'm planning a trip to WDW a week after I graduate as a reward for all of us! :cheer2:

I've enjoyed reading your posts :) I also want to work in L&D for a few years and then become a CNM. I am not sure if I will be starting nursing school this fall or the fall after (waiting to find out, but most likely it will be another year... sigh.. ). I'm just so nervous about having to balance nursing school and family... my little ones are 4 and 17 months. Any suggestions?

(Oh, and we're also planning to go to WDW once I graduate! :banana: )

SueM in MN
04-22-2006, 07:20 PM
I graduated with a BSN, like some, I went to Nursing School right out of high school. So, I didn't have a family to balance while I was going to school.
The most positive thing about having a BSN is that I do have more flxibility in what I can do. I spent a lot of my nursing career in Public Health, which I would not have been able to do with an AD (a BSN has been the basic requirement for many years).
I am currently working in a management position and would not be working in management without a Bachelors. The hospital I currently work at has some Clinical Managers who are being required to go back to school for Masters.
If you don't have any desire to go into management, it probably doesn't matter that much, but if you want more flexibility, a BSN is the way to go.

wdwfan1
04-23-2006, 12:31 AM
RNs in our area start at about $65.000