No more Express Pass machines!

[mickeymousemommy]

I was at Universal for Easter weekend. I was disappointed to see that they have removed all the Express Pass machines. Now you must buy an Express Pass or stay on-site in one of their resorts. Bummer!

[Foladar]

This happened a few months ago, after searching .. seems like it started in Feb:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1032975&highlight=express+pass

[mickeymousemommy]

I was there Easter weekend, so I can't say for sure if this was the cause of long lines, or if it was due to the EP's. Saturday was awful for lines and Sunday was better. I CAN tell you that we got in line for Bilge Rat Barge at 45 minutes. We waited an hour. When we got near the EP entrance, we watched the attendant let in an incredibly long line of EP's. She let them come and come, even the ones that weren't in line, but were just walking up, while the standby line stood by. Everyone in line near us was pretty ticked off. That added 15 minutes to our wait time. The people in front of us complained to the workers at the front of the line. It looked like they were ignored. I understand that the EP's are either paying for their passes or staying on site. I still don't think it's fair to let them ALL go before resuming the flow of the standby line. I MUCH prefer the EP machines, even if they had limited passes for the day. At least you had a chance.

[mill4023]

I agree totally. Many people here have claimed that getting rid of free EP's would reduce the stand-by wait times. After walking past Dueling Dragons with a 95 minute posted wait time and Flying Unicorn with a 60 minute wait, I'm not convinced.

At least with Disney's FP, they know how many people will be using the FP line during any particular hour, so they can better estimate wait times. With Universal's paid Express passes and on-site express privileges, they have no idea when those guests will ride. So that 60 minute posted wait time could easily turn into 2 hours.

The good news is that you can still experience minimal waits if you arrive before park opening and hit the big rides in the first hour or two.

Everyone has their own opinions, but personally, I hate the fact that Universal is separating people into 2 groups. Those who can afford to pay the high costs of an onsite hotel or pay an extra $20-$45 per person per day and get to experience the rides with virtually no wait, and those who can't afford it and end up waiting 90 minutes for one ride on Dueling Dragons. You could say that Disney does the same thing with EMH's, but the difference is that EMH doesn't have a huge impact on how long all the off-site guests have to wait in line. In fact, it might make the wait times shorter for everyone, because it's an extra hour or 3 for people to get rides done.

Judging by the number of Express line guests that are let on for every non express guest, I'd guess that without an Express line, that 90 minute wait at Dueling Dragons would be no more than 45 minutes.

[phamton]

The free express kiosks have been down since September.

[Gonz Of Lancashire]

I was there Easter weekend, so I can't say for sure if this was the cause of long lines, or if it was due to the EP's. Saturday was awful for lines and Sunday was better. I CAN tell you that we got in line for Bilge Rat Barge at 45 minutes. We waited an hour. When we got near the EP entrance, we watched the attendant let in an incredibly long line of EP's. She let them come and come, even the ones that weren't in line, but were just walking up, while the standby line stood by. Everyone in line near us was pretty ticked off. That added 15 minutes to our wait time. The people in front of us complained to the workers at the front of the line. It looked like they were ignored. I understand that the EP's are either paying for their passes or staying on site. I still don't think it's fair to let them ALL go before resuming the flow of the standby line. I MUCH prefer the EP machines, even if they had limited passes for the day. At least you had a chance.


We queued for One Fish, Two Fish in february this year. We in the stand-by line were counting Express Passers through at a four to one ratio. People brought it up to the lady on the gate and she said it was being let through at fifty-fifty, and everyone started calling her a liar, which she clearly was. Maybe they think by letting people queue in stand-by for so long that they will buy EP's next time. Seems to be having a negative effect.


FAO Phantom. Is there a limit on the amount of EP's they issue in a day? Just wondering what would happen if everyone bought one.

[phamton]

Is there a limit on the amount of EP's they issue in a day? Just wondering what would happen if everyone bought one.

There is definitely a limit on the number they sale. Universal ran out of express passes almost every day these last two weeks. Most of the time they were out by 11:00 AM. If they were just after the money, they would just keep selling them to as many people who were willing to buy.

It is a delicate balance between satisfying the hotel guests with FOTL, those who paid money for express, and the standby line.

[buzz2400]

I have never been able to afford staying onsite and had to rely on getting to the park when opened and utilizing the free passes. I am going again in July/August and we decided to stay onsite and use the fotl for both the checkin and checkout dates. Because I am paying so much, I would hope that they do let us in fairly fast. I too have stood in many lines while fotl people would go right in. I understood that they paid alot of money for their ticket so I did not mind. I hope people don't get nasty this summer. We are splurging to stay onsite for one night. If people want the privilege, they will have to pay the extra money, just like I am.

[Metro West]

I liked the EP passes whenever I went with friends but I'm usually over at the parks alone so I do the single rider lines..if they're open.

Both FP and EP had problems with the amount of passes distributed. Universal didn't have enough and ran out very early in the day and Disney distributes too many sometimes. Depending on the day, the FP line is as long as the stand by line. There has to be a happy medium somewhere. :confused3

I'm sure I'll miss the free EP passes this summer when friends visit but otherwise I won't miss them.

[Peter Pirate]

No offense metro, but in my experience FP is very rarely a problem. Busy periods when a breakdown is involved is the only time I've noticed anything problematic.

However, USF is pretty much giving the middle digit to anyone not staying on site at this point. They are not operating as an entity that cares of late, IMO.
pirate:

[Metro West]

No offense metro, but in my experience FP is very rarely a problem. Busy periods when a breakdown is involved is the only time I've noticed anything problematic.

However, USF is pretty much giving the middle digit to anyone not staying on site at this point. They are not operating as an entity that cares of late, IMO.
pirate: No offense taken Peter...but I've been to Disney plenty of times where both lines were very long. As you say maybe the ride was down or something...I don't know.

I can see where you're coming from about USF management though. I guess whoever spends the most gets the prize...so to speak. :rolleyes:

[phamton]

I've been at Disney many times when the fastpasses have run out. Plus many of the rides don't offer fast pass like Haunted Mansion and Pirates.

These are some posts by both Disneyland and Disneyworld cast members on a private board:

"And to top it all Fastpass makes lines....wait for it...LONGER

Yes folks it does. Take the Matterhorn at DL for example, no fast pass..line there is at tops 30-35 minutes, looks longer then that but its not.

There was a day that we lost our computer systems due to a nice virus and they couldn't run fastpass at all. Splash topped out at 45-60 minutes. Space 45-50. During Holiday at Mansion on days we couldn't run fastpass our line was at tops 25 minutes. The Mansion can hold at 25 minute line within the gates. With fastpass we were looking at a 45+ minute line.

Also on many of the Rides who's queues were built prior to fastpass lost 50% or more of their queue to accomidate Fastpass. IE Pirates, Indy, Thunder, Splash, Tours."

And another:

"With fast passes, some attraction's hourly counts are slowed down, that's why Pirates and Mansion doesn't have fast passes anymore. Believe it or not folks, HISTA used to have Surprise Fast passes with a Star Tours Fast pass. It upped our counts, but I saw no use for it."

And this:

"At Mansion in florida fastpass was unnecessary, not to mention clogged up the entrance for standby, as there was a bottleneck created when people insisted on waiting in front of the entrance, keeping people from entering the standby.

Manager came out and told people to move. No one moved. She said move or she'll shut down fastpass. No one moved. She shut it down and the wait time decreased. "

And this:

"It only slowed Mansion's counts. During the off season our line is so quick there was no need and Holiday we gave out too many. Pirates lost half their queue. At Mansion we can theorically cycle 2650 or so an hour. That is if we load 3 per every buggy, don't stop it, don't put the attraction into creep and make sure every buggy is filled. On a good day we hit 2400-2500."

[phamton]

My personal desire would be to eliminate express except for onsite hotel guests at Universal. I've never like the paid express myself.

[DonaldHockeyDuck]

My personal desire would be to eliminate express except for onsite hotel guests at Universal. I've never like the paid express myself.


I wish they would either eliminate ALL, or bring back the the free express pass.

[slick_willy]

The last time I went, it didn't seem necessary for EP. I hope it hasn't changed too much! Lines in general were pretty short, except for MIB, which was always long with the exception of the times when Fear Factor Live was showing. Spiderman also had long lines after about lunchtime.

[Foladar]

I wish they would either eliminate ALL, or bring back the the free express pass.
The FOTL is their sell point on hotels, and personally, I wouldn't see staying onsite for those prices at all. I live 4 hours away, so I drive, so transportation is easy and I'd stay offsite if FOTL wasn't given onsite, as would plenty others I'm sure.

[Sylvester McBean]

the standby times continue to increase.

the single rider lines are backed up.

UO's working the EP lines even harder so no onsite guest or EP buyer complains.

UO is selling even more of the EP's to off-site guests. the EP lines don't diminish, and UO is now turning a nice profit on a service they used to offer for free to all guests.

bad theater.

[LIFERBABE]

Our PAP's expired last June and we chose not to renew them because of the FOTL and paid express passes.

We had kept our AP's current for 4 years but last trip, it was so frustrating, standing in line for an hour and seeing others walk up and get right in especially as AP holders. We visited US/IOA when they were having a very difficult time and I have always supported them even with Disney diehards, but we won't stay onsite to get FOTL (we are DVC) and now that the EP machines are gone, we will most likely not visit at all.

I'd rather have a pool day, then a day of standing in lines and I dont feel the need to pay extra for it. And that goes for WDW too. We use FP and EMH at WDW to avoid the lines.

[Joann]

Last May when we went we didn't use fast passes and I think the longest line was for Jaws about 30 mins I hope it is the same this year the begining of May as I have to get my Mummy fix !!! :cool1: :cool1:

[KalBen]

We just got back from a 5 day stay at RPR. We loved having express with our hotel key...it made for a much more relaxing trip knowing we weren't standing in line. (especially with three kids during the busy Easter break time) We felt bad, however, for people in the regular lines which were made longer by people using express. Obviously it isn't a perfect system by any means. At Disney we were up at the crack of dawn (even paying $ to stay at the Poly) to get on rides without waiting in line too long during our Easter break. That isn't exactly relaxing. At least we get something out of paying the high hotel rates at Universal.

[robvia]

The FOTL is their sell point on hotels, and personally, I wouldn't see staying onsite for those prices at all. I live 4 hours away, so I drive, so transportation is easy and I'd stay offsite if FOTL wasn't given onsite, as would plenty others I'm sure.

We also drive up from Ft. Lauderdale and stay onsite once a year. This time will be at the PBH, then we've done all 3. The reason, is we can bring our lab. The other reason, the pools are great. We also stay offsite to save money, but those pools are boring. So besides the FOTL, the onsite hotels offer great pools, and you "feel" like part of the action. I'd say it's worth the money as a splurge trip if you can use AAA to get a discount.

As to express passes, I agree they need to make it hotel guests only. Regular guests will get frustrated watching mobs of people pass by, and from the reports I'm reading here, it seems the ride ops are not doing 50/50. More like let all the express in. The regular guy who shows up to the park at 11am, with his family, and has never been on these boards, is going to be so frustrated with the long lines.

[Pooh Fan]

My personal desire would be to eliminate express except for onsite hotel guests at Universal. I've never like the paid express myself.
I completely agree with you. I don't like the paid express. That seems to have made the express lines alot longer. We always fork over the money to stay onsite because my husband does not like lines. The last 2 trips, we have noticed the lines getting longer for express since they started the express plus for sale.

[Whartonbound]

Yea, this move by Universal angered me. It just completely disregards most of their guests. Usually Universal is smart and follows Disney when it comes to things like this. This time they seemed to have liked Six Flags' approach better, so they followed them. I don't know bout you all, but Six Flags is the last park chain I'd like to be emulating. :sad2:

[Notatourist]

I know you don't believe this but the waits are actually shorter than they were with free express.

[phamton]

I know you don't believe this but the waits are actually shorter than they were with free express.

You are correct but, unfortunately, we aren't going to convince many of the people here. Although, the records which are kept do prove this, people still think that the plural of anecdote is data. If you went at a busy time of year or happened to hit a ride at a particularly popular time, you assume that express plus has increased your wait time.

[Notatourist]

Yeah, I know Phantom, I know.

[Peter Pirate]

What records?
pirate:

[phamton]

What records?
pirate:

We could tell you but then we'd have to kill you. ;)

[Shooby doo]

Express pass may or may not have been a good thing,having gone to Us in the "old" days when there wasn't any & queueing for Back to the Future for 2 hours,I could see the hook for them BUT baring in mind if I was there for 2 hours so were the people behind me!! Now it's like standing in line at the cinema & just as you are getting close to the front,the person at the front calls 200 of the friends to come & join them there,no-one is going to be best pleased!
Now Us has always been my favourite park & we normally try to go at least twice BUT if we have a bad experience with "no-express" then it may be our last visit.
Should we therefore buy Express passes,baring in mind that by the time we arrive in Florida our vacation will already have cost in the region of $12000,I feel that we have paid enough!!
SD :firefight

[bubba's mom]

I guess whoever spends the most gets the prize...so to speak. :rolleyes:

Ain't that the way....money talks. While on vacation last year, we knew we were going to USO this year and for a year, I've been saving and scrimping...every spare dollar I had is put away for this trip! Have enuf for everything...well, except eating!! Do we need to eat?? :rotfl2: Well, we have some time to go yet...we'll be fine. :thumbsup2 FWIW, we're staying onsite because of the FOTL....I also have a DH that hates standing in lines.... :rolleyes1

[phamton]

Lol, thats just a nice way of saying she has none.



Surely you aren't naive enough to think that all the themeparks don't keep precise records. I can guarantee you that they can pull up line wait times for every given day. I know for a fact that they can pull it up by the minute on a daily basis. Don't believe me, just stop by Guest Services and ask then to pull up the wait time for any ride at that moment.

[Sleepy]

I know WDW hands a piece of paper to select visitors in a standby line. It judges just how long it takes a person to get from point A to point B. It happened to us a few years ago on the Safari ride in AK. Not sure if they still do this, but it can make things pretty accurate for documentation.

[phamton]

I don't know how WDW does it but at Universal you can stop by Guest Services and they can pull up the wait times on their computers and tell you what it is for any ride.

[Sylvester McBean]

WDW uses a keycard on a lanyard. a CM taps the card on a ROM button and hands it to a guest at the entrance to the queue. the guest gives it to the ride op who taps it again, instant wait time calculation. I'm sure any major theme park can pull up the wait time from any attraction at this moment for years back, that's important data to have.

[mill4023]

Surely you aren't naive enough to think that all the themeparks don't keep precise records. I can guarantee you that they can pull up line wait times for every given day. I know for a fact that they can pull it up by the minute on a daily basis. Don't believe me, just stop by Guest Services and ask then to pull up the wait time for any ride at that moment.

I don't think the poster was questioning whether or not the park keeps data on wait times. They were questioning whether or not YOU have all the data and statistical analysis needed to be able to support your claim that the records PROVE that wait times were longer with free express passes.

If I had to guess, I'd say Universal doesn't particularly care about the wait times except in relation to how they affect attendance and revenue. The fact that they decided to stick by the decision to remove free express only means that they must be making more money now, regardless of any affect on wait times.

Unless your job at Universal is to do statistical analysis on wait times, the fact that you work there doesn't mean you have "proof", or even evidence of shorter waits.

[Sylvester McBean]

Well said. Clearly phamton was more intent on attacking my post than actually reading it.

I disagree, I believe phamton is simply backing her point. however, standby times at IOA have been horrible lately. US has been pretty close to what it was before the demise of free EP's with a couple of exceptions. I haven't been to UO for about 3 weeks because of spring break crowds, but I'm going off and on next week. I'm interested to see the standby times compared to last year.

[AndRu]

Cost of flying my family to Orlando - $5000
Cost of hiring a villa - $2400
Cost of car hire - $1000
Cost of 5 park flex tickets - $1158
Cost of spending money - $4500
Total cost - $14,058+

And now Universal want me to pay again on a daily basis for a Fast / Express pass?

Oh, that's priceless. It's like going to the cinema and having to pay at the door and again before you're allowed to sit down. Having experienced both systems on our last visit in February '05, I don't see what the problem is. The Disney system was (is) good as it allows you to go to a ride at a certain time and once all the FP's have gone, they've gone. At least everyone had a fair chance.

I hate to say this but it will change our plans for our next trip. If the parks are going to be that busy that the queue times are 90+ mins and you have to pay extra to get into a shorter line then there doesn't seem to be any point in visiting. Might as well pay the one off entry fee to Sea World and skip the other UO parks all together.

[mattman2k]

They should do away with the express all together and only give FOTL to the onsite guests. Is that treating them special? You bet! But the onsite guests pay well for that special treatment. Just as the WDW onsite guests pay for the Extra Magic Hours. They offer these kind of perks to justify their high prices. And in the case of Universal I think it's money well spent.

$.02

[lindalinda]

Cost of flying my family to Orlando - $5000
Cost of hiring a villa - $2400
Cost of car hire - $1000
Cost of 5 park flex tickets - $1158
Cost of spending money - $4500
Total cost - $14,058+



Holy Cow 14Gs for vacation! I save all year for mine but thats college education money to me! :teacher:

:hippie:

[bubba's mom]

Holy Cow 14Gs for vacation!

They're from England...don't forget! :thumbsup2 You see the airfare??? THAT would kill us alone!!!!

[rie'smom]

Our family stays onsite mainly because of FOTL,although the Unil hotels are a notch above WDW. Hey, if they want to only allow onsite guests FOTL,I won't argue. :rotfl2:
From what I've read both here on the DIS Universal board and on the Dis Disney board, there is talk of FP only for onsite hotel guests. If that happens and the number of FPs depends on the level( value,mod,or deluxe),of hotel you choose, we will choose deluxe everytime.
I wonder what all the Universal naysayers will have to say then? Probably that because it's Disney then it's ok to get rid of free FPs. Of course Universal will be accused of stealing this 'fabulous' idea from WDW. :goodvibes

[watergirl]

I am going may 20& 21. Should I buy FOTL or will I be ok just going early?

[DonaldHockeyDuck]

Our family stays onsite mainly because of FOTL,although the Unil hotels are a notch above WDW. Hey, if they want to only allow onsite guests FOTL,I won't argue. :rotfl2:
From what I've read both here on the DIS Universal board and on the Dis Disney board, there is talk of FP only for onsite hotel guests. If that happens and the number of FPs depends on the level( value,mod,or deluxe),of hotel you choose, we will choose deluxe everytime.
I wonder what all the Universal naysayers will have to say then? Probably that because it's Disney then it's ok to get rid of free FPs. Of course Universal will be accused of stealing this 'fabulous' idea from WDW. :goodvibes

Unless you have FACTS that disney is changing their fast pass policy, you are just blowing smoke, the fact is Universal has created a monster with it's
2 levels of customers and park attendance is suffering, and I'm sure they have records of that to at customer service too.

[larryhog]

I can not remember where I read it, and it was a rumor only but supposedly Disney is looking at changing their fast pass system. It will be based on the level of hotel you are staying at. The higher dollar on-site hotel you stay at the more fast passes you will be allowed. As I said it was a rumor only as no Disney official has acknowleged this but it will be interesting to see if comes about some time in the future.

[phamton]

Nevermind---this is so not worth it.

[bubba's mom]

Nevermind---this is so not worth it.


i heard the same FP Disney/hotel/level rumor...AWHILE back...and i agree, this thread is SO going NOWHERE...... :sad2: