WDW sells 100 acres to developers

[crazy4wdw]

The theme-park giant and huge landowner has sold off 100 acres recently and has a 30-acre parcel on the market.
Scott Powers | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted March 28, 2006

Walt Disney World is selling off chunks of excess land on the fringes of its empire, allowing developers to pursue their own real-estate magic.

Disney recently sold 53 acres on Sherberth Road south of Disney's Animal Kingdom to a developer who wants to build hundreds of vacation town homes and condominium units, and another 47 acres on Reams Road, north of the Magic Kingdom, to a home builder.

Another 30 acres is for sale on U.S. Highway 192. And more may be put on the market as soon as the company re-evaluates its vast land holdings in Central Florida, particularly parcels on the far edges.

Disney spokeswoman Andrea Finger said the company is evaluating its Central Florida land holdings to see what fits into its long-term plans and what doesn't.

Disney owns 27,000 acres in southwest Orange and northwest Osceola counties, most of it purchased in the 1960s when Walt Disney stealthily assembled his holdings before the public learned of his plans to build Disney World. Much of the acreage makes up the area of and around Disney's theme parks, water parks, golf courses, shopping and hotel and time-share resorts between U.S. 192, State Road 429, Reams Road and Interstate 4.

The new deals may illustrate a shift in thinking for Disney.

Finger, spokeswoman for Walt Disney Imagineering, Disney's park planning division, said the 47-acre deal Disney made in December and the 53-acre deal in February are the first for the company in a while, other than land in the Little Lake Bryan and Celebration planned communities.

"With such significant land holdings in Central Florida, our strategy is to manage and develop land resources in ways that promote and enhance and complement our core businesses," Finger said.

Disney is not talking about the 30-acre tract, except to say it is in contract. Yet Disney asked its government agency, the Reedy Creek Improvement District, to de-annex the property, which is on U.S. 192, west of the Animal Kingdom Lodge.

The latest land deals are different from those at Celebration or Little Lake Bryan. Disney fully planned those two communities. The company transferred property in both areas to subsidiaries, which developed the communities and sold off the properties as they were developed. Those sales began in 1994 and still are continuing, Finger said.

The land in the latest deals would be governed by Orange or Osceola county planning and zoning codes, but would otherwise be outside Disney's master plans.

Susan Lawrence, president of Real Estate Strategies in Orlando, said Disney is finding a great time to sell. Prices are at an all-time high. Demand is high, and supply is tight, especially around Disney, she said.

"Like stock, when the prices are extraordinarily high, you're going to sell, especially if there's no long-term strategic use for it," Lawrence said. "That still leaves them with -- what? -- 26,000-plus acres?"

Such sales have been rare for Disney in recent years.

The most recent before December was in 2000, when Disney sold the 40-acre Crossroads at Lake Buena Vista, off State Road 535, for $15.8 million.

Other theme parks in town also have unloaded excess property in the past decade. In 2003, Universal Orlando sold 1,800 acres along Sand Lake Road after deciding it no longer wanted to build a third theme park there.

Since Anheuser-Busch bought SeaWorld in 1989, the company has sold off several hundred acres around Central Florida that were not contiguous to the park.

Last week Disney asked the Reedy Creek Board of Supervisors to begin steps to drop the 30-acre parcel from the agency's jurisdiction. Reedy Creek, a government agency set up by the Florida Legislature, provides utility, fire, emergency medical and other public services to Disney's property.

Normally, when Disney sells land that is governed by Reedy Creek the company asks the agency to de-annex the land so that any new landowners would not share the district's services and would not have any votes in Reedy Creek affairs.

Reedy Creek Executive Director C. Ray Maxwell said his agency is prepared to receive more de-annexation requests from Disney.

"They have gone around and looked at the entire property, the perimeter of the property, and said, OK, does this really fit into future development plans or not?" Maxwell said. "And if it doesn't, is there a market for it?"

Maitland-based Centex Homes bought the 47-acre Reams Road property for $4.8 million. Division President Pat Knight said Centex likes the property, but the company has not yet decided what to do with it.

Sherberth Development Partners, an investment group out of New York and Chicago, paid $15.4 million for the 53 acres. Orlando-based Resorts Development Group will develop the property. President Steve Parker said plans call for vacation homes, including short-term rental homes.

Parker said his company got an unexpected chance to buy the Disney property.

Resorts Development already was planning a 40-acre development next door when it learned that Disney would sell the 53-acre parcel. Knowing how rarely Disney has sold its Central Florida holdings, his investors immediately stepped up to buy it, he said.

"We like to think it was real-estate genius, but it was really dumb luck," he said. "They said, 'We just decided today to start selling some of it.' We said, 'OK, we'll buy it.' "

[wdwguide]

Interesting that they would get much demand for the Reams Road property, considering there is (to tbe best of my knowledge) no easy access to the parks from that area for non-cast in that area.

[DancingBear]

The article says the Reams Rd property was sold to a home developer, vs. the other property where it says vacation properties. There's a lot of homes being built all around that area.

[manning]

Looks like they need money.

[ztbz]

Interesting that they would get much demand for the Reams Road property, considering there is (to tbe best of my knowledge) no easy access to the parks from that area for non-cast in that area.

If one knows where they are going you can get very easy access to WDW at the Reams Road entrance as its no longer guarded by Security, in fact you could park for free at the Magic Kingdom by going in this entrance.

[Parkenthusiast]

Why would they do that??? I would keep the land... You mean with their creative minds they cannot use the land for something... Even if they use it as a green space sound barrier...... Nice move Igor... What next?? That is almost the size of the magic kindom.. I have a feeling Disney will be broken up and become quite small in the future.......

[wdwguide]

If one knows where they are going you can get very easy access to WDW at the Reams Road entrance as its no longer guarded by Security, in fact you could park for free at the Magic Kingdom by going in this entrance.

Seriously? I seem to remember there used to be a guard post at location #1 here, and just assumed there was another at location 2:

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=28.429662~-81.576678&style=r&lvl=16&scene=3928389&sp=aN.28.423831_-81.579167_Guard%20Post_~aN.28.429662_-81.576678_Guard%20Post%3f_

If that area is "open access" now, I'll check it out during my next visit - I enjoyed the time I got lost on the way to the Magic Kingdom and ended up north of the park a few years ago.

PS: This is the best map of the RCID (as of 2005) I have been able to find, which may be useful for reference:

http://www.rcid.org/PDF/political%20jurisdiction%20map.base05_11.pdf

[Luv2Roam]

My first thought was selling that land had to do with the new exchange behind AK. That new entrance will alter any plans for what they would want to do with the land. And the money doesn't hurt either. ;) That's just my perspective.
There is still plenty of WDW property.

[peter11435]

The land they sold north of MK was only 47 acres. Thats less than half the size of the MK. It was really nothing compared the rest of the property. Also if your interested that parcel of land was not part of Walts origianl purcahse. Disney purchased the land in June of 1991 from Thomas and Evelyn Paterson for $1,881,500. Now they sold it for almost 5 millions.

[crazy4wdw]

March 29, 2006 09:10 AM ET
Disney Listens to the Land
Motley Fool News

Is Disney (NYSE: DIS) the next real estate tycoon? The Orlando Sentinel is reporting that the family-entertainment giant has been selling off some of the land surrounding its Disney World complex in Florida in recent months. It sold off 53 acres just south of its Animal Kingdom theme park to a real estate developer set on building vacation homes and condos. It also sold a 47-acre tract just north of its flagship Magic Kingdom attraction to Centex Homes (NYSE: CTX).

This doesn't mean Disney will be hocking Dumbo next. It's just a the result of Disney realizing it really doesn't need 27,000 acres to complete its Florida resort. The fact that Disney wound up with more than 40 square miles of land, mostly on orange groves, was the handiwork of Walt Disney's vision in the 1960s. He quickly learned that Disneyland's biggest flaw in California was that the company didn't acquire enough land outside its original theme park. Competing hotels in park guests' sightlines were a distraction from Disney's themed efforts and an insult to its pocketbook that it couldn't play a bigger role in the area lodging industry that it created.

One may wonder why Disney just didn't develop the excess real estate itself. Disney is not hard up for money, and the Pixar (Nasdsaq: PIXR) acquisition will actually improve Disney's balance sheet, since it's an all-stock deal for a cash-rich animator.

Then again, Disney has been moving away from real estate. It has let real estate developers such as St. Joe (NYSE: JOE) take over the Celebration planned community that it built just south of Disney World.

Disney isn't the only amusement-park operator looking to cash in on unused turf. Six Flags (NYSE: PKS) is trying to unload some unnecessary parcels. One of the three recent additions to its board was Dwight Schar, chairman of real estate developer NVR .

I will always argue that having more land is better than regretting a land sale when it comes time to expand. I think companies like Disney and Six Flags would be better off developing the adjacent real estate so they can profit from it as a landlord. However, with real estate prices so high, it's awfully tempting to cash in on soil that Walter Elias Disney bought for pennies on the dollar.

So, yes, I get it. But when Disney or Six Flags start complaining of unruly neighbors or those unruly neighbors start protesting ambitious expansion, they will have only themselves and their nearsighted specs to blame.

[Parkenthusiast]

The land they sold north of MK was only 47 acres. Thats less than half the size of the MK. It was really nothing compared the rest of the property. Also if your interested that parcel of land was not part of Walts origianl purcahse. Disney purchased the land in June of 1991 from Thomas and Evelyn Paterson for $1,881,500. Now they sold it for almost 5 millions.

That was not the point I was making. I am sure that space could have been used possibly as a support area for park facilities. Employee parking, Employee kick back and relax area…. I am the type of person that does not like to get rid of things just for the sake of getting rid of things. I look at things and say how could I use that. Why would they have bought the land in 1991 to begin with??? They must have felt that a new attraction could been built or something…..

As far as actually useable land on the property people tend to forget that quite a bit of the land is designated as a nature preserve and cannot be touched so where is the “they have a lot of property left for development” coming from???? I see major restrictions… for major development plans for the property…

Lets not start making dumb moves you will regret later on… I have seen it happen too many times by people with the old palm of the hand hitting the forehead while saying I am such a dumb _____.

Igor does not impress me at all. I cannot get the image of him out of my mind when he introduced the 2005 WDW Christmas parade on TV. He walks on camera with his hand in his pocket with such a stupid look on his face like I cannot believe I am doing this.... Nice image you portrayed chief! Cast member training is in room.....

[tednvon]

Interesting...

We have driven by that field on Sherberth a hundred times and seen the cows and horses in the midst of all the Disney and hotel craziness...Not sure but we speculated it was Disney property...probably 2mil plus an acre for grazing land is pretty poor use of the property but it sure had a nice serene feel to it just before you entered Disney...
So another huge condo or hotel will go there....kind of a shame and good old Sherberth will become another 192 before long!!!

[Another Voice]

There has been a decision made at corporate which says Disney will no longer invest substantial capital at Walt Disney World. As far as they are concered, the resort is "complete" - meaning no more theme parks, no hotels, no shopping districts, no more water parks, etc. Disney beleives they have hit the limit of the number of people that want to go to WDW, and believe there is nothing more than can do to shorting the repeat visit period. While a third water park or another shopping are might be successful, Disney could obtain a better return investing elsewhere: foreign parks, cable channels, movie theaters, captial markets, etc.

Disney is, however, open to the idea of other people building on property. That's the whole point of closing down Pleasure Island; Disney is selling those locations to outside restaruants and retailers. Several years ago Disney and Lego were in discussions for a Legoland to be built on property. Disney would also be open to "outside hotels" and other attracations.

Selling the land is a quick and easy way of squeezing cash out of WDW. It's just a continuation of the strip mining that's been going on for two decades.

[peter11435]

I am sure that space could have been used possibly as a support area for park facilities. Employee parking, Employee kick back and relax area.


Disney already has many of all of those things. I have been to both of these pacels of land and can tell you they didn't loose anything.

And his name is Iger.

[ztbz]

Seriously? I seem to remember there used to be a guard post at location #1 here, and just assumed there was another at location 2:

A Note about Guard Posts, Guard Post #1 is still there but was moved back a hundred yards, This Gate is Called Park 2 and Guards the Entrance into the MK Tunnel area, you can now make a Left or Right turn at the 4-way stop sign but you can't go straight unless the Security Guard lets you through the Gate. Guard Post #2 was removed last year and is no longer use or standing.

Disney did away with the Security Guard at this gate (which was known as the North Service Gate) and also the gate at Fort Wilderness was also done away with as well. However Disney may decide to build an Automatic Gates similar to the ones use at each Disney Resort hotel.

Disney has four ways (or entrances) into the Magic Kingdom area, Most Guests only know of the Magic Kingdom Toll Plaza where you pay Disney 9 dollars to park, then there's the Fort Wilderness entrance, the North Service Entrance and the New Western Beltway Entrance which connects to a road called Bear Island Road, This road goes from a back entrance gate at Disney Animal Kingdom up to the Car Care Center which is at the back of the MK Parking Lot. This New Entrance has a Automatic Security Gates installed to prevent folks from traveling North to the Car Care Center.

The New Western Beltway access road will be opening for traffic on April 4th and connects the Hwy 429 Toll road to the Buena Vista Drive near Blizzard Beach and Coronado Springs resort.

[Maistre Gracey]

There has been a decision made at corporate which says Disney will no longer invest substantial capital at Walt Disney World. As far as they are concered, the resort is "complete" - meaning no more theme parks, no hotels, no shopping districts, no more water parks, etc. Disney beleives they have hit the limit of the number of people that want to go to WDW, and believe there is nothing more than can do to shorting the repeat visit period. While a third water park or another shopping are might be successful, Disney could obtain a better return investing elsewhere: foreign parks, cable channels, movie theaters, captial markets, etc.

Disney is, however, open to the idea of other people building on property. That's the whole point of closing down Pleasure Island; Disney is selling those locations to outside restaruants and retailers. Several years ago Disney and Lego were in discussions for a Legoland to be built on property. Disney would also be open to "outside hotels" and other attracations.

AV, while I don't doubt your knowledge here, your first paragraph contradicts your second.

If Disney can't bring in more guests with restaurants, parks, or whatever, why would they believe outside vendors can?
If Disney believes the number of guests will not grow with additional attractions, then one of two things must happen:
Either some guests will divert from Disney hotels and attractions, or the outside vendors will fail.

On a different note, is it really all about increasing the number of guests?
I mean, when a new park opens the price of admission is raised. Couldn't Disney increase revenue by opening another park without increasing attendance?

MG

[scanne]

There has been a decision made at corporate which says Disney will no longer invest substantial capital at Walt Disney World. As far as they are concered, the resort is "complete" - meaning no more theme parks, no hotels, no shopping districts, no more water parks, etc. Disney beleives they have hit the limit of the number of people that want to go to WDW, and believe there is nothing more than can do to shorting the repeat visit period. While a third water park or another shopping are might be successful, Disney could obtain a better return investing elsewhere: foreign parks, cable channels, movie theaters, captial markets, etc.

If this is "truth" then I am disappointed. I have no backing to what I'm going to say - it is just my opinion. But I think Disney would BENEFIT from another water park. And my family and I go EVERY year (sometimes more!) and try to extend our stays each year. This year is 8 days but next year we're hoping for 15 days.

All I'm saying is that I will repeatedly return to WDW - it is without a doubt my favorite place to vacation (and the only place I've vacationed in the last 8 years). I hope that the ideas expressed in the quote above change somewhere down the line. I'd love to see more hotels and a new water park - plus new attractions at the theme parks that already exist!

Just my .02!

[GrimGhost]

...And his name is Iger.

Thanks Peter, I was getting tired of that as well.
...
AV, while I don't doubt your knowledge here, your first paragraph contradicts your second..

I'd like to hear a response on this also.

[Another Voice]

There are two issues at play here – the attendance at WDW overall and the profitably of the guests already at WDW.

The belief is that WDW is a “mature market”, i.e. everyone who wants to WDW is already going. There are no large markets of people that haven’t heard about the place and there are no large markets that can’t get to WDW – two of the traditional places to “grow” a business. Instead Disney has focused on the third area, by getting the same people to buy more; in Disney’s case this means to shorten the period between visits and to extend their stays. In short, everyone that wants to spend their vacation at a bunch of theme parks is already going to WDW and going frequently.

Of course, this brings up the obvious direction – make WDW appealing to people that don’t want to see just theme parks. And Disney tried to address this question – it’s the reason behind The Disney Institute, the Cruise Line, Wide World of Sports and even to a degree Animal Kingdom. And now you can also see Disney’s problem, all but the boats have been business failures for the company.

Hence Disney’s decision against any major expansions. There aren’t anymore “theme park” people to attract (look at how everyone is ignoring Animal Kingdom), and the risk vs. rewards of changing the nature of WDW aren’t favorable (no one came to take a spa or a class with Roger Ebert). It’s simply better to take all that capital and spend on businesses with a higher return (like movies).


That being said, the company is still committed to 20% annual growth. If your overall attendance isn’t going up, that means you have to squeeze more money out of the people you have.

Disney believes it has a tremendously high cost structure. And, in fact, they do. But while the average line manager will complain about the costs of same-sex partner medical insurance, the real culprit is ABC, Fox Family, Feature Animation and all the other money-loosing areas of the company. In order to pay for all of this, the margins that the theme parks must operate under are extremely high.

The ultimate margin, of course, would be where you had revenue and no expenses. Disney thinks it has found that through “outsourcing operations”. Look at Tokyo Disneyland. The visited theme parks on Earth and Disney doesn’t spend a dime on them. BUT Disney gets a cut from every ticket, every box of popcorn, every plush Winnie the Pooh that’s sold. AND they also get a boatload of money just for using the name “Disney”. Pure, sweat, delicious profit flowing in an endless tide from across the Pacific.

So why not at WDW? Sell the restaurants and shed themselves of all the costs of actually running the places. Find someone who can run a restaurant better and more efficiently than Disney (not hard), and someone willing to accept 10% growth, and someone not saddled with twenty years of royalty payments for ‘The Power Rangers’. It’s very easy for Disney to structure the deal so they make more money by licensing a restaurant than by running one.

Plus it also solves the big, big, big problem that’s growing today. It used to be that people would wait (on average) roughly five years between visits. Overall that is down to about three years and there are large numbers of people who visit annually or even more frequently.

The number one thing they are demanding is “new stuff to do”. Opening a dozen new shops and new restaurants can get very expensive. But if have a dozen other people wanting to open one apiece – then it’s flat out cheap for Disney. Hence we got the Westside and the Boardwalk; brand new goodies for all the pin traders with the minimal possible investment from Disney.

In short, Disney thinks it can make better returns than investing in the theme parks. In fact, the parks themselves are nothing but cash farms, the harvest will be spent in other place. That’s driving all the decisions today and into the foreseeable future.


Couldn't Disney increase revenue by opening another park without increasing attendance?
On this point in particular, Disney has shown it can continue to raise prices without opening anything new, so why spend a billion dollars to do something you can do for free. Second, what really scared Disney was the attendance patterns for Animal Kingdom. The new park simply took people away from all the other parks. It didn't add new guests, and no one extended their vacation an extra day. So again, why spend a billion dollars to spread the same amount of between four parks instead of three?

[peter11435]

And Disney tried to address this question – it’s the reason behind The Disney Institute, the Cruise Line, Wide World of Sports and even to a degree Animal Kingdom. And now you can also see Disney’s problem, all but the boats have been business failures for the company.


We have done this before but this is the point you like to make that I strongly disagree with. I agree that the Disney Institute was a failure, but Animal Kingdom and the Wide World of Sports have not been total failures.

To say that people ignore AK is absurd. I can guarantee that this year AK will have the third highest attendance of any park in Orlando. It will be above MGM, Universal, and IOA. Sure the park has drawn many of its guests away from the other parks. But it HAS increased the length of stay for many Disney guests. AK's financial situation is only going to continue to improve.

As for the Wide World of Sports. The complex itself may not make a profit, but the impact it has on WDW is substation. The complex accomplished the same thing as the Food & Wine Festival, Flower and Garden Festival, WDW marathon and other such events. It brings large groups of people to WDW that otherwise would not be there during times of the year that the parks would otherwise be slow. You cant assess the success or failure of the complex without taking into account the money that is made off the thousands of event participants, families, and spectators that visit WDW, stay at the hotels, buy the food, purchase the merchandise, and buy tickets.

[Another Voice]

To say that people ignore AK is absurd.
The reason to build that park was to a) attract 3-4 million additional visitors to WDW every years and b) extend the average guest's stay an additional day. The park has accomplished neither goal. Attendance patterns show that most visitors are "taking time away" from time spent at other Disney parks, some people are visiting Animal Kingdom instead of traveling off property, very few are adding another day to their vacation.

Disney has spent a billion dollars and fallen far short of its goal. If nothing else, it convinced the company that just adding a theme park doesn't mean people will show up. Considering that with all that money Disney could film six more sequels to Pirates of the Caribbean - they have made the corporate decision that risking capital on moives will give then a better return keeping Marty and Ethel from driving to Tampa.

The Wide World of Sports was supposed to do exactly as you say - although Disney does know how to measure all the hotel rooms, admission tickets, and meal plans are purchased by all those pre-teen cheerleaders screaming about property. That's why Disney has to offer room discounts for the general public - WWoS is not drawing enough people to fill the rooms. And again - planned expansions for the swimming and diving stadiums have been cancelled. No soccer stadium, no improvements to the football fields...Disney speaks with its spending.

The sad truth is that ideas about the "success" of Animal Kingdom don't matter - only Iger's opinion will decide what gets built. And they've decided - and announced - there will be no more major capital investments at WDW.

[peter11435]

The sad truth is that ideas about the "success" of Animal Kingdom don't matter - only Iger's opinion will decide what gets built.

Thats very true.

Although I do have to ask. Where has it been "announced" that there will be no more major capital investments at WDW.

[wdwguide]

The sad truth is that ideas about the "success" of Animal Kingdom don't matter - only Iger's opinion will decide what gets built. And they've decided - and announced - there will be no more major capital investments at WDW.

Give it a few years. They clearly overbuilt in the late 1990s, but demand is finally catching up to the excess capacity they created (just try booking a discounted hotel room these days on short notice...). We'll probably go through another 2-3 year cycle where they will do little but come up with a couple of new parades and live shows (similar to the early 2000s) while they cash in on the interest created by Soarin' and Everest, followed by another period of more aggressive investments. I wouldn't expect a new park within the next ten years (not until gas prices drop/stabilize, security fears subside, the Dow hits 20,000, etc, which looks like it'll be a while), but major new e-tickets to add to the capacity and draw of the Studios and Epcot, which have been flat for a decade now, in particular are certainly not out of the question. They will probably also continue to expand their line of bonus and "VIP" offerings, which are basically pure profit for them.

As of last year, WDW's attendance was 42.8 million, close to the record (which was during the Millennium Celebration - 43.2 million). It's true that the AK has cannibalized from the other parks to some extent, but this effect is (now) more than compensated for by the additional attendence it generates - about 3.6 million extra bodies compared to 1997 - which is in line with the goals you stated. Had it not been for the 2001-2003 slump, they would have likely met those expectations consistently. As of this point, 2006 looks like a great year for the parks, and I wouldn't be surprised if AK overtook the Studio's attendance figures.

As for the WWoS - I always thought that was a fairly stupid idea without much more frequent "weenie" features than they have now (i.e. major games and tournaments that will attract guests to come and stay at WDW for that reason alone - like Gators/Noles/UM football games, or an NFL/NBA contract). Same with the underutilized Speedway.

[DannyDisneyFreak]

At first I thought the title of this was somthing about the 100 acre woods, I had to read it again... :rotfl:
Oh and sorry to interrupt your much more mature disscussion, which I am enjoying... :hippie:

[peter11435]

The Wide World of Sports was supposed to do exactly as you say - although Disney does know how to measure all the hotel rooms, admission tickets, and meal plans are purchased by all those pre-teen cheerleaders screaming about property. That's why Disney has to offer room discounts for the general public - WWoS is not drawing enough people to fill the rooms.

Thing is that the WWoS was never intended to fill all of the rooms. There is no way it could have. The fact is that many of those room discounts you speak of are disappearing. Beyond that even if the WWoS doesn't fill all the rooms, imagine how many rooms would be unfilled if not for the WWoS.

[mitros]

I was under the impression that the reason they removed the guard shack on the roadway by Fort Wilderness was because all of the resorts have their own individual guard shacks now.A Note about Guard Posts, Guard Post #1 is still there but was moved back a hundred yards, This Gate is Called Park 2 and Guards the Entrance into the MK Tunnel area, you can now make a Left or Right turn at the 4-way stop sign but you can't go straight unless the Security Guard lets you through the Gate. Guard Post #2 was removed last year and is no longer use or standing.

Disney did away with the Security Guard at this gate (which was known as the North Service Gate) and also the gate at Fort Wilderness was also done away with as well. However Disney may decide to build an Automatic Gates similar to the ones use at each Disney Resort hotel.

Disney has four ways (or entrances) into the Magic Kingdom area, Most Guests only know of the Magic Kingdom Toll Plaza where you pay Disney 9 dollars to park, then there's the Fort Wilderness entrance, the North Service Entrance and the New Western Beltway Entrance which connects to a road called Bear Island Road, This road goes from a back entrance gate at Disney Animal Kingdom up to the Car Care Center which is at the back of the MK Parking Lot. This New Entrance has a Automatic Security Gates installed to prevent folks from traveling North to the Car Care Center.

The New Western Beltway access road will be opening for traffic on April 4th and connects the Hwy 429 Toll road to the Buena Vista Drive near Blizzard Beach and Coronado Springs resort.

[Tink's Tormentor]

WWoS was never meant to be a 5th gate type of park... WWoS was built to house sporting events on Disney property.. How can it be called a failure when it hold 2-3 cheerleading competitons a year, which requires the cheerleaders, coaches, and parents/friends/relatives all stay on property... They do not stay for free... So this generates income for WDW.. Also, the Braves use WWoS as their spring training facility.. Tampa Bay Buccs use it for their camp... Other competitons/sporting events are held there.. I cannot see where is it a failure.. Also, when WWoS holds sporting events, where do the people stay? WDW RESORTS!!!! Again, they do nt stay for free.. And the kids also go to the parks, spend money on food and merchandise.. It generates money...

AK is far from a failure.. How can it be a failure, cause it only has 1 coaster?? EE has driven attendance up in a few short weeks... AK will be the third most visited park in Orlando this year... And it continues to grow...

[Tink's Tormentor]

To say that people ignore AK is absurd. I can guarantee that this year AK will have the third highest attendance of any park in Orlando. It will be above MGM, Universal, and IOA. Sure the park has drawn many of its guests away from the other parks. But it HAS increased the length of stay for many Disney guests. AK's financial situation is only going to continue to improve.

SeaWorld is close to beatin Universal and IOA in attendance :lmao:

[raidermatt]

Finally getting attendance close to 2000 and a few million above 1997 isn't exactly something that indicates success. Most other tourist destinations are already reporting record visitation levels. I'm sure the hurricanes dampened things, but prior to that, Florida itself was seeing record levels of visitors.

Some keep getting hung up on the word "failure". If that translates into nothing but red ink for you, then forget that word.

But whatever word you use, the point is that "failure" is relative. When AV is using it he means the company doesn't like the returns it is getting, and would rather invest in something else next time.

It doesn't mean AK is bleeding cash, or that WWoS did nothing for the bottom line.

So with that relativity in mind, its clear that AK fell short of expectations. Its a little more difficult to get a good read on WWoS. Maybe its done ok, but if it really has been "great", where are those expansions? At the very least, it would seem Disney has decided it isn't going to be as big as they had hoped.

AK will be the third most visited park in Orlando this year...
We've had people here telling us the order was going to change for years now. Sometimes its that MGM was going to overtake Epcot, sometimes AK overtaking both. Maybe it will happen. E:E is a significant add. But doesn't that also say something about how time has crept by and very little has been done with MGM? Yes, the auto stunt show, but that's hadly an "attendance driver".


Although I do have to ask. Where has it been "announced" that there will be no more major capital investments at WDW.

As far as I know, what's been announced repeatedly is that capital expenditures are to remain pretty flat for the forseeable future. International growth is a focus area, and marketing is seen as the way to continue growth at WDW.

Add that up and it means don't look for much more investment at WDW. Of course there will be new attractions here and there, but it does seem pretty clear Disney views WDW as mature.

Its true, these land sales, taken at face value, aren't all that significant. But anytime someone starts doing something they've never done before, you've got to look at more than just the face value. Really now, if somebody had come around here years ago (if we had all been on the "Internets" back then) and suggested Disney should start leasing out its retail and restaurant space to chains and selling of pieces of WDW to developers, would you have jumped on board?

Is this REALLY the vision you had for WDW? Is it the type of thinking that would have ever built WDW, and DL for that matter, in the first place?

[Luv2Roam]

I have not looked at maps to see what parcel on Reams Rd was sold. Just thought I would add what I have seen.
On Reams Rd, not directly behind the castle, land is being cleared, on the opposite side of the road.
If I am heading out of MK, making a left, what we consider WDW is on the left hand of the road. The right hand side of the road must have been owned by them too.
It was before my time, but there use to be a CM hangout. What remained that I ever saw was an abandoned, rectangluar cement block building that would have occasional graffiti sprayed painted on the walls.
That building is now gone, and the land around it being cleared.
It started happening after this sold status. I am only assuming that was the acerage sold. And if that is the case that really makes sense, since it was across the road, and already near an apartment complex and housing subdivision.

[peter11435]

But doesn't that also say something about how time has crept by and very little has been done with MGM? Yes, the auto stunt show, but that's hadly an "attendance driver".


Typical Disboards response. Rather than give AK the credit it deserves we have to turn it into something negative by blaming MGM for AK success.

Remember there is always going to be a WDW park with the lowest attendance. There is no avoiding that. But that doesn't been the park is a failure.

[Tink's Tormentor]

OK, again... What was the purpose of WWOS??? To be a park destination for WDW guests???? To bring millions of people to WDW?? No.. it was meant to be a sporting venue.. plain and simple... Even Disney knew they wouldn't get 10 million through the gate... Come on now people.. To sit here and say DIsney thinks WWoS as a failure is ludicis... It serves its purpose... Other than maybe All-Star Cafe that is....

As for Animal Kingdom.. I hated this park the first time I was there... Now, after several visits, it is now one of my favorites.. MGM is now my least favorite... I think other people are seeing it as well, how awesomely themed AK is... Remeebr, AK is only 8 years old... Geez, give it some time ot develope.. Even Rome wasn't built in a day... And to say Disney is not bleeding cash into AK cause they aren't getting their return, how do you figutre ovre 100 million for Eversest??? How do you explain the possible expansion that is being talked about, the new land AK may be getting, or at least another E ticket with some A,B,C tickets as well... AK is getting the love it needs.. MGM needs the major help now.... Complain about MGM, not AK...
Blame Eisner for MGM falling short... Cause, if any park is a failure in WDW, it is MGM Studios.

[Another Voice]

OK, again... What was the purpose of WWOS???
A question a lot of people who work at WDW ask on a regular basis.

The purpose of Sports was to bring in lots of big scholastic and amateur sporting events during WDW’s off season to help even out attendance levels. A lot of WDW’s costs are fixed whether one person shows up or three million do. It has always (and I mean going back to 1971) been WDW’s goal to have as even attendance as possible.

Disney has been using conventions to do this since the day the resort opened. WDW went full out in the mid-90’s to become the “Vegas of the East” for high profile conventions that are attended by lots of plump adults touting very juicy expense accounts. Count the number of WDW resorts with major convention facilities. Notice that the Boardwalk is chock full of Corporate American Express card friendly restaurants catering to the martini set.

Disney thought they could extend this practice to capture the down scale markets as well. One of the things that lots of people travel is to participate in sporting events – both scholastic and amateur. The city of Indianapolis has been very successful here, Disney thought they could do well too. While each participant doesn’t spend as much money as a convention goer, you make that up in volume and reduced services.

The plan seemed simple – fill the Pop Century during the summer with swarms of families and in winter fill with pre-adolescent cheerleaders.

Only one minor problem – Disney priced itself out of the market. WDW sees itself as a “luxury brand”, meaning that people should expect to pay more (and receive less) simple because “it’s Disney”. While some high end events – which happened to be cheerleading competitions, go figure – coughed up the premium, many more groups refused. All those softball fields, the baseball fields, the “Milk House” go unused. No Little League World Series, no Pop Warner championships, no Rocky Mountain Flag Football League play-offs. Of the groups that do show up, even they are finding Disney’s accommodations pricey. Just as many people stay on property as stay off and that destroys the economics of the place.

So “World of Sports” has become a giant white elephant hanging out on the edge of the world. ESPN can occasionally scrape together theo odd phony-event for a TV show, and the occasional “Miss Junior Miss International Dance Cheer of America” competition shows up – but they did that before WDW dropped hundreds of millions of dollars to build the place (and holding the events on the ‘Indy Jones Stunt Show’ stage looked better on TV anyway). The unfinished, rotting in the sun half of Pop Century shows exactly what happened to the business model.

In the end, 'Wide World of Sports' joins The Disney Institute in failed ideas to expand WDW's audience.

[peter11435]

Pop Warner championships.

Actually the Pop Warner Championships are held at the WWoS.

[mitros]

.....and then there's that Richard Petty "race track" {or whatever it is they are calling it these days} area that seems to have gone over to the garbage heap of failures at WDW. ZOOM ZOOM! :car:

[TSR6]

The Walt Disney Speedway actually held races from 1996 until 2000.

[YoHo]

Actually the Pop Warner Championships are held at the WWoS.


Hello, Let me introduce you to this incredible forest that you've missed while you were busy looking at the trees.

[peter11435]

Hello, Let me introduce you to this incredible forest that you've missed while you were busy looking at the trees.
I didn't miss the rest of his post. I just saw something that needed to be corrected.

[Another Voice]

I stand corrected. I was so upset about having missed "Twirl Mania" in February that I didn't look at the schedule closly enough.

Then again, I did check out the Soccer schedule. Soccer is the sport with the highest number of school age players and one of the top in adult leagues. The World of Sports schedule lists a total of 13 events for the entire complex for the entire year. And of these events, 9 of them are put on by Disney itself. Five of the six track and field events are Disney. And while WoS gets a couple of AAU events, Field Hockey and Jr. Girls Volleyball aren't exactly the Olympic Trails and NCAA Championships that WDW had expected.

I give credit to Disney at trying to broaden the reach of WDW, but like The Disney Institute, the execution of the plans and the corporate "hot potato" reaction when it failed to be an overnight sucess remain a problem.